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Question for DL/DE freaks (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CharrdWood
- Start date
Beaumont
Footballguy
Good high motor guy. Benefits from Tennesee's interior play. Its not Laboy and Antawn Odom keeping them honest and off of KVB ...
CharrdWood
Footballguy
True, this year it was Fat Albert. But prior to that you can't honestly say that was the case. I was more curious as to him being a "liability" against the run, which seemed to be intimated in the article. But general comments are welcome (as if I have a choice!).
I disagree
If you want to vote Mario or someone else, that's cool but Vandenbosch is NOT out of the conversation/consideration here.
Haynesworth didn't play every game and Kyle still had his moments. He's tough as nails and he has such a motor, he should be tested every week for "uppers".(joke) His hustle is just awesome.
In today's pamperred NFL, I like to think these hustlers are appreciated a little extra. If that gets Bosch in the pro bowl, I'm fine with that
If you want to vote Mario or someone else, that's cool but Vandenbosch is NOT out of the conversation/consideration here.
Haynesworth didn't play every game and Kyle still had his moments. He's tough as nails and he has such a motor, he should be tested every week for "uppers".(joke) His hustle is just awesome.
In today's pamperred NFL, I like to think these hustlers are appreciated a little extra. If that gets Bosch in the pro bowl, I'm fine with that
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I had Vanden Bosch just outside the Pro Bowl in mid-December, behind Elvis Dumervil and Mario Williams (and Jason Taylor and Jared Allen), but there's an argument to be made in his favor.
While I love seeing the defensive metrics, I have a few issues with Joyner's metrics (and similar metrics from Football Outsiders). Sample size is almost always an issue and I feel that both outlets tend to cherry pick among the stats to make a case for/against a player at time. On one hand, they'll use a given metric to make one argument, yet sometimes use the same result from the same metric and discuss why it may be flawed for another player. It's especially difficult for defensive players, when so much depends on the entire 11 man unit. And I think Joyner is more guilty of this than FO.
In Vanden Bosch's case, seven "non-coverage" sacks isn't insignificant. And I'd guess that five "coverage" sacks ranks pretty highly on that list. Either way, Vanden Bosch isn't an edge rusher. In the AFC, he has no pash rushing peer as a strong side defensive end. He's quick, but comparing him to Taylor or Allen on the basis of the "quality" of sacks isn't fair. Haven't seen the metric yet, but FO last year noted that Vanden Bosch had 33 quarterback sacks or hits, and a two year total behind only Dwight Freeney. Most of the other names on Joyner's list pass the smell test for me, but I'd like to see the metrics compared among those players Joyner felt more deserving.
Should Williams have been voted in over VDB? Probably. Does Taylor's career make up for his lackluster 2007 and give him the nod over VDB?
VDB was probably at least as deserving as any among that group behind Allen.
While I love seeing the defensive metrics, I have a few issues with Joyner's metrics (and similar metrics from Football Outsiders). Sample size is almost always an issue and I feel that both outlets tend to cherry pick among the stats to make a case for/against a player at time. On one hand, they'll use a given metric to make one argument, yet sometimes use the same result from the same metric and discuss why it may be flawed for another player. It's especially difficult for defensive players, when so much depends on the entire 11 man unit. And I think Joyner is more guilty of this than FO.
In Vanden Bosch's case, seven "non-coverage" sacks isn't insignificant. And I'd guess that five "coverage" sacks ranks pretty highly on that list. Either way, Vanden Bosch isn't an edge rusher. In the AFC, he has no pash rushing peer as a strong side defensive end. He's quick, but comparing him to Taylor or Allen on the basis of the "quality" of sacks isn't fair. Haven't seen the metric yet, but FO last year noted that Vanden Bosch had 33 quarterback sacks or hits, and a two year total behind only Dwight Freeney. Most of the other names on Joyner's list pass the smell test for me, but I'd like to see the metrics compared among those players Joyner felt more deserving.
Should Williams have been voted in over VDB? Probably. Does Taylor's career make up for his lackluster 2007 and give him the nod over VDB?
VDB was probably at least as deserving as any among that group behind Allen.
FUBAR
Footballguy
I'm actually proud that VDB got in the pro bowl. I think Mario may be the better all-around player with a lot more natural talent, but VDB is an example for all players to emulate. He's obviously a high motor guy who works his ### off everyday. He also seems to be a good clubhouse guy, on a team with a need. Given Pac-man's issues, the inexperience on offense (Mawae, but who else can lead with experience?), he and some others on the defense have had to pick things up and help that team make the playoffs. I realize character doesn't get you in the pro-bowl or HOF, but if it did, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
