Question for harry scotsman and other Young Fans (1 Viewer)

[NoFBinLA]

For what it's worth --

USC Alumni here who still follows the team.

As far as Young in the Nat Champ game goes -- I thought he looked pretty good over all. I was very impressed with his stones in the last drive and couldn't believe the Trojans just let him go underneath all the time.

I can't speak for his distance/arm strength as I just don't remember how often he threw long or not. But he seemed fairly accurate to me.

Whether that translates to success in the NFL is another thing. But in terms of raw skills - he's got them and then some.

I think Leinart ended up in a better situation (great WRs and a solid RB) but time will tell how Young developes. Hopefully the Titans give him some time to get acclimated.

 

[gocats]

Game Stats

1) Young, Vince pass complete to Thomas, David for 18 yards to the UT43

2) Young, Vince pass complete to Pittman, Billy for 13 yards to the UT48,

3) Young, Vince pass complete to Carter, Brian for 26 yards to the USC27,

4) Young, Vince pass complete to Sweed, Limas for 10 yards to the UT37,

5) Young, Vince pass complete to Sweed, Limas for 14 yards to the USC20

6) Young, Vince pass complete to Sweed, Limas for 12 yards to the USC14

7) Young, Vince pass complete to Pittman, Billy for 12 yards to the UT43

8) Young, Vince pass complete to Pittman, Billy for 23 yards to the USC34

9) Young, Vince pass complete to Thomas, David for 16 yards to the USC37

10) Young, Vince pass complete to Carter, Brian for 17 yards to the USC13

I don't know exactly how many of those were thrown less than 10 but ended up 10 or more yards but I bet that more than 2 were 10+ yard throws. And that was just one game against the best college defensive coach (maybe in the history of college football) with 6 weeks to gameplan for the utter destruction of Vince.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fresno St. - 12:50

1st-10, FRST19 12:50 W. Mathis rushed up the middle for 1 yard gain

2nd-9, FRST20 12:15 P. Pinegar passed to J. Fernandez to the right for 17 yard gain

1st-10, FRST37 11:50 P. Pinegar passed to P. Williams to the left for 14 yard gain

1st-10, USC49 11:27 P. Pinegar passed to J. Fernandez down the middle for 21 yard gain

1st-10, USC28 11:08 W. Mathis rushed to the left for 3 yard gain

2nd-7, USC25 10:26 P. Pinegar incomplete pass down the middle

3rd-6, USC24 10:22 P. Pinegar passed to M. Rivera down the middle for 11 yard gain

1st-10, USC13 9:59 P. Pinegar incomplete pass down the middle

2nd-10, USC13 9:53 P. Pinegar passed to D. McDonald down the middle for 12 yard gain. D. McDonald fumbled. J. Jamison recovered fumble and returned for 1 yard. K. Zimmerman made PAT

USC 50, Fresno St. [SIZE=21pt]42[/SIZE]

USC 38, Texas [SIZE=14pt]41[/SIZE]

 

[Joe Bryant]

Akili Smith:

2000:  118/267  1253yds  3 Tds  6 Int  12 games

Rushing:

232yds 0Tds

Vince Young

2006:  1500 Yds 6 Tds 8 Ints 

Rushing: 

300 2Tds

Book it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi gc,I'm not a big Young fan but I can't go down the Akili Smith path there.

J

 

[gocats]

I do see a lot of similarities between the two:

Akili Smith

o 4.66 40

o 6-3 230

o Shotgun QB limited playbook

o Scrambling QB with decent but not great speed

o 3rd pick overall

o Does not have a fluid delivery

o Very low wonderlic

o Elevated stock against USC

Does not always throw with a very fluid delivery. Needs a lot of work on reading the entire field.  (The Oregon offense generally had him reading just half the field in ’98.) last fall and scored a 13 out of 50 on the wonderlicThere were times he practically carded the entire offense, especially after star running back Reuben Droughns broke his right ankle against UCLA. At one point Oregon started its fourth-string tailback. Against Southern California, Smith accounted for 303 of his team's 394 yards of total offense. Tied 10-10 in the fourth quarter, he faked an option pitch and ran 62 yards for the winning touchdown.Vince Youngo 4.58 40

o 6-5 230

o Shotgun QB limited playbook

o 3rd pick overall

o Scrambling QB with decent but not great speed

o Does not have a fluid delivery

o Very low wonderlic

o Elevated stock against USC

His throwing motion has been questioned, but his completion percentage should answer any doubts. Some have also questioned his decision making. Sometimes he will throw into double coverage when another receiver is open, but even then he completes the pass more often then not. mainly a shotgun QBAnswer me this question: If Vince Young was so dominent why the goose egg against Oklahoma?

 

[the hairy scotsman]

I do see a lot of similarities between the two:

Akili Smith

o 4.66 40

o 6-3 230

o Shotgun QB limited playbook

o Scrambling QB with decent but not great speed

o 3rd pick overall

o Does not have a fluid delivery

o  Very low wonderlic

o  Elevated stock against USC

Does not always throw with a very fluid delivery. Needs a lot of work on reading the entire field.  (The Oregon offense generally had him reading just half the field in ’98.) last fall and scored a 13 out of 50 on the wonderlicThere were times he practically carded the entire offense, especially after star running back Reuben Droughns broke his right ankle against UCLA. At one point Oregon started its fourth-string tailback. Against Southern California, Smith accounted for 303 of his team's 394 yards of total offense. Tied 10-10 in the fourth quarter, he faked an option pitch and ran 62 yards for the winning touchdown.Vince Youngo 4.58 40

o 6-5 230

o Shotgun QB limited playbook

o 3rd pick overall

o Scrambling QB with decent but not great speed

o Does not have a fluid delivery

o Very low wonderlic

o  Elevated stock against USC

His throwing motion has been questioned, but his completion percentage should answer any doubts. Some have also questioned his decision making. Sometimes he will throw into double coverage when another receiver is open, but even then he completes the pass more often then not. mainly a shotgun QBAnswer me this question:    If Vince Young was so dominent why the goose egg against Oklahoma?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First:

Scrambling QB with decent but not great speed

You really make me .Have you ever seen Young caught from behind, by anyone? When I see him pulling away from CBs, I know all I need to about his game speed.

As far as the 2004 OU game goes, thank you for asking. That was before Texas had established a credible passing threat with Young behind center. Cedric Benson was at RB and OU knew Greg Davis would favor the reliable senior and the run game in general over throwing with Young, a spectacular runner, but still an unproven passer working with an even greener wr corps known more for busting their reads, running the wrong routes, and dropping balls. OU stacked the box against the run, slowing the zone read very effectively, and blanketed the TE, thus removing Young's favorite hot outlet (David Thomas) and forcing him to look for his young and unreliable wrs.

Then they blitzed like hell, from all over the field. The wrs made bad reads more often than not, and Young was forced to eat the ball if his first read wasn't there. There was just no time to do anything else. Greg Davis's gameplan was inflexible and ultra-conservative and ultra-predictable, often going run, run, pass and playing right into the D that was just daring them to throw over the top on 1st and 2nd downs. He simply would not do it.

Also, Young simply wasn't as good in '04 as he was in '05. Anyone who has seen him play in both years can tell you that. Did you happen to catch this year's Texas-OU game?

 

[gocats]

Scrambling QB with decent but not great speed

You really make me        .

Have you ever seen Young caught from behind, by anyone? When I see him pulling away from CBs, I know all I need to about his game speed.

As far as the 2004 OU game goes, thank you for asking. That was before Texas had established a credible passing threat with Young behind center. Cedric Benson was at RB and OU knew Greg Davis would favor the reliable senior and the run game in general over throwing with Young, a spectacular runner, but still an unproven passer working with an even greener wr corps known more for busting their reads, running the wrong routes, and dropping balls. OU stacked the box against the run, slowing the zone read very effectively, and blanketed the TE, thus removing Young's favorite hot outlet (David Thomas) and forcing him to look for his young and unreliable wrs.

Then they blitzed like hell, from all over the field. The wrs made bad reads more often than not, and Young was forced to eat the ball if his first read wasn't there. There was just no time to do anything else. Greg Davis's gameplan was inflexible and ultra-conservative and ultra-predictable, often going run, run, pass and playing right into the D that was just daring them to throw over the top on 1st and 2nd downs. He simply would not do it.

Also, Young simply wasn't as good in '04 as he was in '05. Anyone who has seen him play in both years can tell you that. Did you happen to catch this year's Texas-OU game?

Yes I did as a matter of fact all good points , but to play devils advocate, Im sure no one would argue that OU was rebuilding last year, and Adrian Peterson was injured. Texas was pretty fortunate last year, played OU without AP, OSU without Troy Smith, USC with an injury riddled defense. And if a certain A&M QB could just throw a forward pass they probably wouldnt have made the NC game. Since VY has progressed so much last season what do you think of these numbers against the worse Pass defense in division I college football:

13/24 54pct 162yds 1TD 1int

He does have its poor games, the game against OU in 04', the game against A&M in 05', I would be hard pressed to find these kind of off games from Matt Leinart

 

[the hairy scotsman]

Scrambling QB with decent but not great speed

You really make me         .

Have you ever seen Young caught from behind, by anyone? When I see him pulling away from CBs, I know all I need to about his game speed.

As far as the 2004 OU game goes, thank you for asking. That was before Texas had established a credible passing threat with Young behind center. Cedric Benson was at RB and OU knew Greg Davis would favor the reliable senior and the run game in general over throwing with Young, a spectacular runner, but still an unproven passer working with an even greener wr corps known more for busting their reads, running the wrong routes, and dropping balls. OU stacked the box against the run, slowing the zone read very effectively, and blanketed the TE, thus removing Young's favorite hot outlet (David Thomas) and forcing him to look for his young and unreliable wrs.

Then they blitzed like hell, from all over the field. The wrs made bad reads more often than not, and Young was forced to eat the ball if his first read wasn't there. There was just no time to do anything else. Greg Davis's gameplan was inflexible and ultra-conservative and ultra-predictable, often going run, run, pass and playing right into the D that was just daring them to throw over the top on 1st and 2nd downs. He simply would not do it.

Also, Young simply wasn't as good in '04 as he was in '05. Anyone who has seen him play in both years can tell you that. Did you happen to catch this year's Texas-OU game?

Yes I did as a matter of fact all good points , but to play devils advocate, Im sure no one would argue that OU was rebuilding last year, and Adrian Peterson was injured. Texas was pretty fortunate last year, played OU without AP, OSU without Troy Smith, USC with an injury riddled defense. And if a certain A&M QB could just throw a forward pass they probably wouldnt have made the NC game. Since VY has progressed so much last season what do you think of these numbers against the worse Pass defense in division I college football:13/24 54pct 162yds 1TD 1int

He does have its poor games, the game against OU in 04', the game against A&M in 05', I would be hard pressed to find these kind of off games from Matt Leinart

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure, but I'm going to assume those are the numbers from the a&m game. Not his best day, to be sure. However, and I know it sounds cliche, that was an upset special. It was a tough road rivalry game in a stadium most fans recognize as one of the most hostile environs in college sports...going against a heavy underdog with nothing to lose and everything to gain, all the while possibly thinking about the next, bigger game. The Texas coaches had limited Young's running to pretty much zero in an effort to keep him healthy for the Big 12 CG and hopefully the Rose Bowl and a&m came out fighting. I was worried that he'd get hurt in this game because he was taking hits in the pocket as the aggies sent blitz after blitz. Young rarely takes a clean hit when on the run, but was taking some shots by staying the pocket that day. The bottom line, though, in this game is that he made the plays the team needed when they needed them most. The offense, largely due to the defense overloading to stop Young, put up 40 points in a road rivalry game that Texas still won by 11.

 

[Hawk]

I do see a lot of similarities between the two:

Akili Smith

o 4.66 40

o 6-3 230

o Shotgun QB limited playbook

o Scrambling QB with decent but not great speed

o 3rd pick overall

o Does not have a fluid delivery

o  Very low wonderlic

o  Elevated stock against USC

Does not always throw with a very fluid delivery. Needs a lot of work on reading the entire field.  (The Oregon offense generally had him reading just half the field in ’98.) last fall and scored a 13 out of 50 on the wonderlicThere were times he practically carded the entire offense, especially after star running back Reuben Droughns broke his right ankle against UCLA. At one point Oregon started its fourth-string tailback. Against Southern California, Smith accounted for 303 of his team's 394 yards of total offense. Tied 10-10 in the fourth quarter, he faked an option pitch and ran 62 yards for the winning touchdown.Vince Youngo 4.58 40

o 6-5 230

o Shotgun QB limited playbook

o 3rd pick overall

o Scrambling QB with decent but not great speed

o Does not have a fluid delivery

o Very low wonderlic

o  Elevated stock against USC

His throwing motion has been questioned, but his completion percentage should answer any doubts. Some have also questioned his decision making. Sometimes he will throw into double coverage when another receiver is open, but even then he completes the pass more often then not. mainly a shotgun QBAnswer me this question:    If Vince Young was so dominent why the goose egg against Oklahoma?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Everyone acknowledges that Young was struggling as a passer still in the first part of the 2004 season. He has terrible games against OU and Missouri, but he was just a sophmore and was still learning. After the Missouri game the coaches met with Vince and wanted him to return to having fun playing like he did in high school. Vince told them he needed more leeway to be himself and the coaches gave it to him. Once the Texas coaches let go of the reins and allowed his personality to flourish, he tore it up from that point on. His passing improved greatly over the second half of the 2004 season and even more in 2005. You did single out his one subpar game in 2005, the A&M game, but as Hairy said, he still did what was needed to win. He also put up good numbers against some very good defenses such as Ohio State.

 

[RKMoney]

Akili Smith:

2000: 118/267 1253yds 3 Tds 6 Int 12 games

Rushing:

232yds 0Tds

Vince Young

2006: 1500 Yds 6 Tds 8 Ints

Rushing:

300 2Tds

Book it.

Hi gc,I'm not a big Young fan but I can't go down the Akili Smith path there.

J

 

[RKMoney]

Good questions Joe. I would like to see all the VY backers actually put something down on paper in terms of when this guy is actually going to be a servicable NFL QB.

 

[RKMoney]

It seems you have an axe to grind with Young.

I don't and I don't think LHucks does either.What I'd like to get a grip on is how good you really think he'll be this year?

J

I think it's painfully obvious you both do, I understand why LHUCKS dislikes him (took over vs. USC) but why you? Didn't start week one but so what, neither did many other rookie QBs. What's interesting that in the past THREE weeks (Weeks 10 - 12) he is the 5th best player in the league I'm in.

2 rushing TD / 3 passing TD and only 1 INT.

What's interesting is the Leinhart has clearly better WR than TEN, I think we can all agree with that but during the same stretch, his fantasy value is much lower.

He has almost 300 yards more passing (100 per game) but FEWER PASSING TD's than Young and MORE INT!

Oh and I know this means nothing in regards to fantasy but Young has three more wins this year than good old Matt.

And the 4 -4 record was more than legit

So, to recap, more TD's and fewer INT with more wins than Leinhart.