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R. Wilson Vs. C. Kaepernick (1 Viewer)

Dynasty/Keeper

  • Wison

    Votes: 175 59.5%
  • Kaepernick

    Votes: 119 40.5%

  • Total voters
    294
Do you think that film study and practice reps are equivalent to actual game time?
Not at all. Do I think 18 months with a well run NFL team is enough to prep a QB to start games without much a learning curve? Yes.
Well sure, it's better than 0 months. But what we're really debating is which is better prep: a) 18 months with a well-run NFL team, or b) a full training camp + 8 games as a starter. I'll pick option b, but can understand how reasonable minds might disagree.
Wilson didn't really get a full camp. For most of it he was playing 2nd & 3rd string trying to get the job.

And Kaepernick was on the sidelines for 24 games, two camps and took part in seven real NFL games, albiet if only briefly, before taking the reins for the first time (and 8 preseason games but I don't put much stock in that). I'm also not suggesting that all of Wilsons first eight games we're equivalent to that experience, but I'd guess that after four or five games Wilson found his NFL legs and perhaps it took the coaches a few more games to realize this and take the training wheels off. Personally, I just don't feel that their stats from the last 8 games of the season are all that disparate from an experience perspective.
:goodposting:
I love it when people type "good post" because it validates their own view.

 
Do you think that film study and practice reps are equivalent to actual game time?
Not at all. Do I think 18 months with a well run NFL team is enough to prep a QB to start games without much a learning curve? Yes.
Well sure, it's better than 0 months. But what we're really debating is which is better prep: a) 18 months with a well-run NFL team, or b) a full training camp + 8 games as a starter. I'll pick option b, but can understand how reasonable minds might disagree.
Wilson didn't really get a full camp. For most of it he was playing 2nd & 3rd string trying to get the job.

And Kaepernick was on the sidelines for 24 games, two camps and took part in seven real NFL games, albiet if only briefly, before taking the reins for the first time (and 8 preseason games but I don't put much stock in that). I'm also not suggesting that all of Wilsons first eight games we're equivalent to that experience, but I'd guess that after four or five games Wilson found his NFL legs and perhaps it took the coaches a few more games to realize this and take the training wheels off. Personally, I just don't feel that their stats from the last 8 games of the season are all that disparate from an experience perspective.
:goodposting:
I love it when people type "good post" because it validates their own view.
Is that easier that commenting on what I said? This seemed like civil discourse... why go with an ad hominem attack?

 
Just a comment that Kaeps rookie training camp was locked out. The lockout didn't end until July 25th so he basically was shuffled to the side while the starters were prepared for a new coach & system. Considering how little work the backups get during the regular season, 2011 was a wash. In 2012 he was fighting for the backup QB spot with Scott Tolzien. It sounds funny now but early in the 2012 season, there was talk that the only reason Kaep was active & Tolzien was inactive was because they had a running package in the playbook for Kaep. If Smith was to get hurt it was anybodies guess who would get the start. If Wilson was competing with Flynn & Jackson for the starting spot, he got much more practice time then Kaep did. I'm very interested to see what Kaep will do with a full training camp & an offense totally designed around him.

 
CapnJB said:
Alex P Keaton said:
Just Win Baby said:
CapnJB said:
Alex P Keaton said:
CapnJB said:
Alex P Keaton said:
Do you think that film study and practice reps are equivalent to actual game time?
Not at all. Do I think 18 months with a well run NFL team is enough to prep a QB to start games without much a learning curve? Yes.
Well sure, it's better than 0 months. But what we're really debating is which is better prep: a) 18 months with a well-run NFL team, or b) a full training camp + 8 games as a starter. I'll pick option b, but can understand how reasonable minds might disagree.
Wilson didn't really get a full camp. For most of it he was playing 2nd & 3rd string trying to get the job.

And Kaepernick was on the sidelines for 24 games, two camps and took part in seven real NFL games, albiet if only briefly, before taking the reins for the first time (and 8 preseason games but I don't put much stock in that). I'm also not suggesting that all of Wilsons first eight games we're equivalent to that experience, but I'd guess that after four or five games Wilson found his NFL legs and perhaps it took the coaches a few more games to realize this and take the training wheels off. Personally, I just don't feel that their stats from the last 8 games of the season are all that disparate from an experience perspective.
:goodposting:
I love it when people type "good post" because it validates their own view.
Is that easier that commenting on what I said? This seemed like civil discourse... why go with an ad hominem attack?
How is that an ad hominem attack?

It's just typical for this board - folks type "good post" even if someone is missing the point or distorting the debate. Like saying that Wilson didn't have a full camp as the starter -- even though Kaepernick never did either. It's just lazy reading - just slap a "good post" on the comment rather than picking through the entire post.

BTW - I thought your post WAS good overall. But it was distortive to talk about Wilson never going through a camp as the #1 QB and staying silent on the same point for Kaepernick. I'm sure it wasn't intentional, it was just an oversight. But that's the type of discussion that gets ignored when people just blindly type "good post" because it validates their own view.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Just Win Baby said:
Alex P Keaton said:
CapnJB said:
Alex P Keaton said:
Do you think that film study and practice reps are equivalent to actual game time?
Not at all. Do I think 18 months with a well run NFL team is enough to prep a QB to start games without much a learning curve? Yes.
Well sure, it's better than 0 months. But what we're really debating is which is better prep: a) 18 months with a well-run NFL team, or b) a full training camp + 8 games as a starter. I'll pick option b, but can understand how reasonable minds might disagree.
Wilson didn't have a full training camp as a starter last year. So you are mischaracterizing what we are debating. Wilson had one training camp in which he split reps with 2 other QBs. Kaepernick has had two training camps, and an entire season and offseason of backup duty that Wilson did not have.

The question is how 8 games as a starter, and all the attendant practices as the #1 QB in those 8 game weeks differs from Kaepernick practicing as the #2 QB for 1.5 seasons. To me, it's close enough that it's a wash.
Wait, so Wilson didn't have a full training camp as a starter....but Kaepernick did?
You are the one who said Wilson had a full training camp as a starter, which is incorrect. I didn't say Kaepernick did. Reread what you have quoted.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Just Win Baby said:
Alex P Keaton said:
CapnJB said:
Alex P Keaton said:
Do you think that film study and practice reps are equivalent to actual game time?
Not at all. Do I think 18 months with a well run NFL team is enough to prep a QB to start games without much a learning curve? Yes.
Well sure, it's better than 0 months. But what we're really debating is which is better prep: a) 18 months with a well-run NFL team, or b) a full training camp + 8 games as a starter. I'll pick option b, but can understand how reasonable minds might disagree.
Wilson didn't have a full training camp as a starter last year. So you are mischaracterizing what we are debating. Wilson had one training camp in which he split reps with 2 other QBs. Kaepernick has had two training camps, and an entire season and offseason of backup duty that Wilson did not have.

The question is how 8 games as a starter, and all the attendant practices as the #1 QB in those 8 game weeks differs from Kaepernick practicing as the #2 QB for 1.5 seasons. To me, it's close enough that it's a wash.
Wait, so Wilson didn't have a full training camp as a starter....but Kaepernick did?
You are the one who said Wilson had a full training camp as a starter, which is incorrect. I didn't say Kaepernick did. Reread what you have quoted.
I wrote that he went through a full training camp, and that he had 8 games as a starter. Not that he went through a full training camp as the starter. Apologies if that was confusing to you.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
JamesTheScot said:
CapnJB said:
I would hope that Kaepernick would be prepared after spending a season and a half in the NFL. It's not like he only spent a third of the reps with the 1st team in camp before being thrown into the fray.

The stats I listed were just data points from the same time. If you don't think those are acurate depictions of Kaepernick or Wilson, well... that's up to you. But if I said would you rather have had Kaep or Wilson for the second half of the season I'm pretty sure you'd go with Wilson.
Good posting. Kaep's first 8 games aren't comparable to Wilson's first 8 anymore than Aaron Rodger's first 8 are. Kaepernick had a season and half of film study and practice reps before he started. Wilson had a training camp.

Both had an advantage that the other lacked. I don't think we can name a clear winner in that respect.
 Do you think that film study and practice reps are equivalent to actual game time?
No. But I know your performance in a game seems to be directly tied to film study and practice reps, so it would be just as foolish to discount it as meaningless.

Do you think having a year to study film, practice in the NFL and adjust to the speed of the game is worthless? If not, then a guy who has sat for one year still has some advantage over a guy that is a true rookie.

That's why I say they both had an advantage that the other lacked. Wilson had his first 8 games, albeit with the training wheels on. Kaepernick had an extra offseason, albeit abbreviated, and a then a whole season of film study, weekly prep and practice reps in 2011 that Wilson didn't have.

I don't think there's an equation where you can say X games started = Y weeks holding a clipboard. Both are valuable and confer a benefit (unless you're Tim Couch or David Carr getting your skull crushed at every turn). But they are different. Rodgers seemed to hit the ground running with very little game experience. But he certainly has gotten better with real game experience as well. So he was able to learn a lot from watching. But he also gained a lot from real game experience.

Why does this have to turn into a debate where we discount one over the other just to prove a point on a message board? For Pete's sake!

 
Alex P Keaton said:
JamesTheScot said:
CapnJB said:
I would hope that Kaepernick would be prepared after spending a season and a half in the NFL. It's not like he only spent a third of the reps with the 1st team in camp before being thrown into the fray.

The stats I listed were just data points from the same time. If you don't think those are acurate depictions of Kaepernick or Wilson, well... that's up to you. But if I said would you rather have had Kaep or Wilson for the second half of the season I'm pretty sure you'd go with Wilson.
Good posting. Kaep's first 8 games aren't comparable to Wilson's first 8 anymore than Aaron Rodger's first 8 are. Kaepernick had a season and half of film study and practice reps before he started. Wilson had a training camp.

Both had an advantage that the other lacked. I don't think we can name a clear winner in that respect.
 Do you think that film study and practice reps are equivalent to actual game time?
No. But I know your performance in a game seems to be directly tied to film study and practice reps, so it would be just as foolish to discount it as meaningless.

Do you think having a year to study film, practice in the NFL and adjust to the speed of the game is worthless? If not, then a guy who has sat for one year still has some advantage over a guy that is a true rookie.

That's why I say they both had an advantage that the other lacked. Wilson had his first 8 games, albeit with the training wheels on. Kaepernick had an extra offseason, albeit abbreviated, and a then a whole season of film study, weekly prep and practice reps in 2011 that Wilson didn't have.

I don't think there's an equation where you can say X games started = Y weeks holding a clipboard. Both are valuable and confer a benefit (unless you're Tim Couch or David Carr getting your skull crushed at every turn). But they are different. Rodgers seemed to hit the ground running with very little game experience. But he certainly has gotten better with real game experience as well. So he was able to learn a lot from watching. But he also gained a lot from real game experience.

Why does this have to turn into a debate where we discount one over the other just to prove a point on a message board? For Pete's sake!
I'm not trying to discount your view. Rather, I was hoping you would expound on your initial statement. Asking a question seemed like a good way to do that.

Personally, I found your comments to be insightful and compelling, and was hoping to here more. Thanks for elaborating.

 
My main concern with Wilson is that if he loses a little mobility, his height may be more of a detriment. He does a great job of moving to find throwing lanes. Kap has prototypical QB size, so even if he loses mobility, he should still be able to play a conventional role. At this time though, I think Wilson is better at progressing reads than Kaepernick is.

 
My main concern with Wilson is that if he loses a little mobility, his height may be more of a detriment. He does a great job of moving to find throwing lanes. Kap has prototypical QB size, so even if he loses mobility, he should still be able to play a conventional role. At this time though, I think Wilson is better at progressing reads than Kaepernick is.
How does Brees do at roughly the same height and no mobility? I think as Wilson gets older and loses some mobility he will also get smarter and know how to get the ball through the lanes.

I picked Wilson this year, because of the loss of Crabtree. Dynasty wise it is a toss up

 
My main concern with Wilson is that if he loses a little mobility, his height may be more of a detriment. He does a great job of moving to find throwing lanes. Kap has prototypical QB size, so even if he loses mobility, he should still be able to play a conventional role. At this time though, I think Wilson is better at progressing reads than Kaepernick is.
How does Brees do at roughly the same height and no mobility? I think as Wilson gets older and loses some mobility he will also get smarter and know how to get the ball through the lanes.

I picked Wilson this year, because of the loss of Crabtree. Dynasty wise it is a toss up
Brees has an inch and a half on Wilson which sounds crazy to point out, but does seem to make a difference. Wilson is the only QB in the NFL right now listed as under six feet (though I suspect Chase Daniel wouldn't top two yards either.)

You can point to Brees, I'll point to Seneca Wallace circa 2008, but the truth is his skills as a passer lie somewhere between those two. Where, I'm not sure, but Brees may be the best pure passer of our generation. No one is saying that about Wilson (or Kaepernick). A big part of their fantasy value for 2013 is their mobility.

One plus for Wilson is his hand size. Though he played just about twice as much as Kapernick, he had 33% fewer fumbles than the Niner QB (6 to 9).

 
Great thread!

I voted Kaep in redraft by an inch because I think he may be "taken off his leash" this year more because of injuries and score more fantasy points with his legs. Longer term I think Wilson has the higher floor. I don't follow Kaep to the same extent but Wilson definitely appears to be the real deal above the neck. Kaep may be too but I don't think that's as visible/apparent at this point.

 
My main concern with Wilson is that if he loses a little mobility, his height may be more of a detriment. He does a great job of moving to find throwing lanes. Kap has prototypical QB size, so even if he loses mobility, he should still be able to play a conventional role. At this time though, I think Wilson is better at progressing reads than Kaepernick is.
How does Brees do at roughly the same height and no mobility? I think as Wilson gets older and loses some mobility he will also get smarter and know how to get the ball through the lanes.

I picked Wilson this year, because of the loss of Crabtree. Dynasty wise it is a toss up
Wilson actually throws better from the pocket then out of the pocket. The numbers prove it.

 
gianmarco said:
CapnJB said:
Final 8 games of the 2012 season for both:

Completions Attempts Comp % Yards Av per Attempt TDs INT Rush Att Rush YDS Average Rush TDsKaepernick 131 209 62.6 1725 8.35 10 3 50 304 6.08 3Wilson 123 183 67.2 1652 9.02 16 2 58 361 6.22 4
That's nice, but you're comparing Kaep's first 8 games as a starter to Wilson's 9th-16th games as a starter. Why not compare those #'s of Kaep's to Wilson's first 8 games of the season?

Completions Attempts Comp % Yards Av per Attempt TDs INT Rush Att Rush YDS Average Rush TDsKaepernick 131 209 62.6 1725 8.35 10 3 50 304 6.08 3Wilson 129 210 61.4 1466 6.98 10 8 36 128 3.55 0Paints a little bit of a different picture. Kaep had an extra year, but still it was his first time starting. Wilson was reigned in at first then opened up. Either way, it's all a very small sample size and both guys benefited from a couple big games that skewed the numbers a bit.
Good Posting

 
My main concern with Wilson is that if he loses a little mobility, his height may be more of a detriment. He does a great job of moving to find throwing lanes. Kap has prototypical QB size, so even if he loses mobility, he should still be able to play a conventional role. At this time though, I think Wilson is better at progressing reads than Kaepernick is.
How does Brees do at roughly the same height and no mobility? I think as Wilson gets older and loses some mobility he will also get smarter and know how to get the ball through the lanes.

I picked Wilson this year, because of the loss of Crabtree. Dynasty wise it is a toss up
Wilson actually throws better from the pocket then out of the pocket. The numbers prove it.
As does every other QB in the NFL given a large enough sample size. What's your point? QBs generally go out of the pocket because of pressure and it's more difficult to throw on the run.

The point is that a shorter QB would theoretically have less success from within the pocket than a taller QB of equal skill. Not that the shorter QB would be better outside of the pocket than in the pocket.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
JamesTheScot said:
CapnJB said:
I would hope that Kaepernick would be prepared after spending a season and a half in the NFL. It's not like he only spent a third of the reps with the 1st team in camp before being thrown into the fray.

The stats I listed were just data points from the same time. If you don't think those are acurate depictions of Kaepernick or Wilson, well... that's up to you. But if I said would you rather have had Kaep or Wilson for the second half of the season I'm pretty sure you'd go with Wilson.
Good posting. Kaep's first 8 games aren't comparable to Wilson's first 8 anymore than Aaron Rodger's first 8 are. Kaepernick had a season and half of film study and practice reps before he started. Wilson had a training camp.

Both had an advantage that the other lacked. I don't think we can name a clear winner in that respect.
 Do you think that film study and practice reps are equivalent to actual game time?
No. But I know your performance in a game seems to be directly tied to film study and practice reps, so it would be just as foolish to discount it as meaningless.

Do you think having a year to study film, practice in the NFL and adjust to the speed of the game is worthless? If not, then a guy who has sat for one year still has some advantage over a guy that is a true rookie.

That's why I say they both had an advantage that the other lacked. Wilson had his first 8 games, albeit with the training wheels on. Kaepernick had an extra offseason, albeit abbreviated, and a then a whole season of film study, weekly prep and practice reps in 2011 that Wilson didn't have.

I don't think there's an equation where you can say X games started = Y weeks holding a clipboard. Both are valuable and confer a benefit (unless you're Tim Couch or David Carr getting your skull crushed at every turn). But they are different. Rodgers seemed to hit the ground running with very little game experience. But he certainly has gotten better with real game experience as well. So he was able to learn a lot from watching. But he also gained a lot from real game experience.

Why does this have to turn into a debate where we discount one over the other just to prove a point on a message board? For Pete's sake!
I'm not trying to discount your view. Rather, I was hoping you would expound on your initial statement. Asking a question seemed like a good way to do that.

Personally, I found your comments to be insightful and compelling, and was hoping to here more. Thanks for elaborating.
Thanks for clarifying your intention. It was stated so succinctly that it struck me as a bit rhetorical and sarcastic. So I apologize for misinterpreting the tone and responding so defensively.

 
Wilson actually throws better from the pocket then out of the pocket. The numbers prove it.
As does every other QB in the NFL given a large enough sample size. What's your point?
My point: He is already one of the top 5 QBs in the league and he passes better in the pocket then outside of it. Check QBR or Passer Raiting. He does well finding passing lanes. I guess he can always improve. :shrug:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/88192/a-couple-qb-stats-to-keep-in-pocket-or-out

http://www.fieldgulls.com/seahawks-analysis/2013/1/10/3862054/russell-wilson-nfl-playoffs-seahawks-falcons-ron-jaworski

Wilson's completion rate on passes from inside the pocket is an excellent 64.5% (198 of 305 for 2,449 yards), for 8.0 yards per attempt, 22 touchdowns to 8 interceptions. Let's write that again.

Wilson's completion rate on passes from inside the pocket is 64.5% (198 of 305 for 2,449 yards), for 8.0 yards per attempt.

Conversely, ... well, not conversely, because he's very good outside the pocket too,.. additionally, on passes outside the pocket, he's 69 of 114 for 856 yards (60.5%) with 7.5 ypa. 5 TD to 2 interceptions.
 
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Alex P Keaton said:
JamesTheScot said:
CapnJB said:
I would hope that Kaepernick would be prepared after spending a season and a half in the NFL. It's not like he only spent a third of the reps with the 1st team in camp before being thrown into the fray.

The stats I listed were just data points from the same time. If you don't think those are acurate depictions of Kaepernick or Wilson, well... that's up to you. But if I said would you rather have had Kaep or Wilson for the second half of the season I'm pretty sure you'd go with Wilson.
Good posting. Kaep's first 8 games aren't comparable to Wilson's first 8 anymore than Aaron Rodger's first 8 are. Kaepernick had a season and half of film study and practice reps before he started. Wilson had a training camp.

Both had an advantage that the other lacked. I don't think we can name a clear winner in that respect.
 Do you think that film study and practice reps are equivalent to actual game time?
No. But I know your performance in a game seems to be directly tied to film study and practice reps, so it would be just as foolish to discount it as meaningless.

Do you think having a year to study film, practice in the NFL and adjust to the speed of the game is worthless? If not, then a guy who has sat for one year still has some advantage over a guy that is a true rookie.

That's why I say they both had an advantage that the other lacked. Wilson had his first 8 games, albeit with the training wheels on. Kaepernick had an extra offseason, albeit abbreviated, and a then a whole season of film study, weekly prep and practice reps in 2011 that Wilson didn't have.

I don't think there's an equation where you can say X games started = Y weeks holding a clipboard. Both are valuable and confer a benefit (unless you're Tim Couch or David Carr getting your skull crushed at every turn). But they are different. Rodgers seemed to hit the ground running with very little game experience. But he certainly has gotten better with real game experience as well. So he was able to learn a lot from watching. But he also gained a lot from real game experience.

Why does this have to turn into a debate where we discount one over the other just to prove a point on a message board? For Pete's sake!
I'm not trying to discount your view. Rather, I was hoping you would expound on your initial statement. Asking a question seemed like a good way to do that.

Personally, I found your comments to be insightful and compelling, and was hoping to here more. Thanks for elaborating.
Thanks for clarifying your intention. It was stated so succinctly that it struck me as a bit rhetorical and sarcastic. So I apologize for misinterpreting the tone and responding so defensively.
No need to apologize, all good. I have "tone issues" both online and in real life. ;)

 
My main concern with Wilson is that if he loses a little mobility, his height may be more of a detriment. He does a great job of moving to find throwing lanes. Kap has prototypical QB size, so even if he loses mobility, he should still be able to play a conventional role. At this time though, I think Wilson is better at progressing reads than Kaepernick is.
How does Brees do at roughly the same height and no mobility? I think as Wilson gets older and loses some mobility he will also get smarter and know how to get the ball through the lanes.

I picked Wilson this year, because of the loss of Crabtree. Dynasty wise it is a toss up
Brees has an inch and a half on Wilson which sounds crazy to point out, but does seem to make a difference. Wilson is the only QB in the NFL right now listed as under six feet (though I suspect Chase Daniel wouldn't top two yards either.)

You can point to Brees, I'll point to Seneca Wallace circa 2008, but the truth is his skills as a passer lie somewhere between those two. Where, I'm not sure, but Brees may be the best pure passer of our generation. No one is saying that about Wilson (or Kaepernick). A big part of their fantasy value for 2013 is their mobility.

One plus for Wilson is his hand size. Though he played just about twice as much as Kapernick, he had 33% fewer fumbles than the Niner QB (6 to 9).
This is one of the things that has always worried me about Wilson when I watch him play. And keep in mind, I'm a huge fan (partly since he was a Badger for a year). What I see is a very athletic, highly accurate passer......who lacks zip on the ball. There are times that his passes just seem to float. Which makes me worry that he will be limited as a QB.

Has anyone else noticed this, or am I being overly nitpicky? Serious question, and not meant to slam Wilson. (again, I'm a fan)

 
Shocked at all the love that Wilson is getting over Kaep.

The talent and ceiling for Kaep is several tiers above Wilson from an NFL standpoint. He's faster, taller, throws a better deep ball, throws the ball faster period.... you name it. And Kaep appears to have the mental capacity to run an NFL offense. For all Wilson did last year, he doesn't have the strongest arm and I think that's going to hurt him as defenses force him to make "honey-hole" throws down the field; not to mention his height issues, which teams will also find a way to exploit. I vividly remember the Senior Bowl where one of the Packers beat writers said he fluttered his first deep down field pass. That problem isn't going away and he's not following in Brees' footsteps with a weak deep ball.

Ideally I would take Wilson's brain in Kaep's body, but otherwise I'll just take Kaep.

Wilson is more developed at the moment since he played in a pro style offenses in college (and the full NFL season) and the stats seem to back up the argument that they are close, but I'll take the guy that is already performing at Wilson's level but has a WAY higher ceiling.

RG3 and Kaep are going to be stars because they are passers that can run. Wilson is a runner that can pass. There's a huge difference.

All that said I wish him the best of luck; I loved watching him play at Wisconsin.

 
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Shocked at all the love that Wilson is getting over Kaep.

The talent and ceiling for Kaep is several tiers above Wilson from an NFL standpoint. He's faster, taller, throws a better deep ball, throws the ball faster period.... you name it. And Kaep appears to have the mental capacity to run an NFL offense. For all Wilson did last year, he doesn't have the strongest arm and I think that's going to hurt him as defenses force him to make "honey-hole" throws down the field. I vividly remember the Senior Bowl where one of the Packers beat writers said he fluttered his first deep down field pass. That problem isn't going away and he's not following in Brees' footsteps with a weak deep ball.

Ideally I would take Wilson's brain in Kaep's body, but otherwise I'll just take Kaep.

Wilson is more developed at the moment since he played in several pro style offenses in college (and the full NFL season) and the stats seem to back up the argument that they are close, but I'll take the guy that is already performing at Wilson's level but has a WAY higher ceiling.
A couple of reactions here:

1. You're asserting that Kaep's ceiling is higher than Wilson's. What do you see as Wilson's ceiling? What if I asserted that Wilson's ceiling is Drew Brees with running ability? How would that change the math?

2. Per the bolded, others have posted stats that (at a minimum) suggest Wilson performed at a higher level than Kaepernick in the 2nd half of 2012. Further, there was a substantive back & forth debate on which player had more "NFL prep" the past couple of years. In other words, not as much of a slam dunk as you assert in the bold.

 
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This is one of the things that has always worried me about Wilson when I watch him play. And keep in mind, I'm a huge fan (partly since he was a Badger for a year). What I see is a very athletic, highly accurate passer......who lacks zip on the ball. There are times that his passes just seem to float. Which makes me worry that he will be limited as a QB.

Has anyone else noticed this, or am I being overly nitpicky? Serious question, and not meant to slam Wilson. (again, I'm a fan)
I have heard plenty say he is a top 10 arm tallent in the league. Im not sure you are "seeing" things right or evaluating them correctly. He has great touch and zip when he needs it, not every pass needs to be a 100mph fastball.

Regardless accuracy, pocket awareness, and understanding the game are far more important than arm strength. Both Tom Brady and Peyton Manning can attest to that. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FYnkAavO50

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1272242/russell-wilson

"Arm Strength: Arguably Wilson's most impressive trait, especially considering his lack of ideal size. Can easily make every NFL throw, showing the ability to drive the football to the sideline on a line from the opposite hash. Can send the ball 40-50 yards downfield with a flick of his wrist."

 
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warrior you have posted a good question i do not think this should be decided on the field of play though based on what other players or coaches will do as a plan of attack i believe it should be based on who is the better player because like my main man tsung su said yhou have to believe in yourselve so i do not care what some other player might do or what type of play a coach might run i just care about the two players and when you look at them i think that russell is the better player i think is a better decision maker under fire and i believe that ds will catch up with capernikus that is my nickname for him this year and they will run schemes to confuse him because tsung su said that all war is deception and a good d coordinator will use that saying to his advantage and tell his d players to wage war on capernikus so there you have it brohan take that to the bank

 
warrior you have posted a good question i do not think this should be decided on the field of play though based on what other players or coaches will do as a plan of attack i believe it should be based on who is the better player because like my main man tsung su said yhou have to believe in yourselve so i do not care what some other player might do or what type of play a coach might run i just care about the two players and when you look at them i think that russell is the better player i think is a better decision maker under fire and i believe that ds will catch up with capernikus that is my nickname for him this year and they will run schemes to confuse him because tsung su said that all war is deception and a good d coordinator will use that saying to his advantage and tell his d players to wage war on capernikus so there you have it brohan take that to the bank
That was intense.

Periods are your friend.

 
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i do not use them because tung su said to fake ignorance and encourge arrogance so i just let brohans like you concentrate on periods while i end up with taking home the papershakers brohan take that to the bank

 
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This is one of the things that has always worried me about Wilson when I watch him play. And keep in mind, I'm a huge fan (partly since he was a Badger for a year). What I see is a very athletic, highly accurate passer......who lacks zip on the ball. There are times that his passes just seem to float. Which makes me worry that he will be limited as a QB.

Has anyone else noticed this, or am I being overly nitpicky? Serious question, and not meant to slam Wilson. (again, I'm a fan)
I have heard plenty say he is a top 10 arm tallent in the league. Im not sure you are "seeing" things right or evaluating them correctly. He has great touch and zip when he needs it, not every pass needs to be a 100mph fastball.

Regardless accuracy, pocket awareness, and understanding the game are far more important than arm strength. Both Tom Brady and Peyton Manning can attest to that. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FYnkAavO50

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1272242/russell-wilson

"Arm Strength: Arguably Wilson's most impressive trait, especially considering his lack of ideal size. Can easily make every NFL throw, showing the ability to drive the football to the sideline on a line from the opposite hash. Can send the ball 40-50 yards downfield with a flick of his wrist."
Thanks for the input and links. I still *see* it differently when I watch him play.....there are many times that his passes float significantly. That might not be an arm strength issue....might be more with his throwing style. Not sure.

Regardless, I agree with you that he has great touch, accuracy, pocket awareness, etc. Again, I'm a fan. Just trying to dig deeper and really understand any potential flaws that he has.

 
This is one of the things that has always worried me about Wilson when I watch him play. And keep in mind, I'm a huge fan (partly since he was a Badger for a year). What I see is a very athletic, highly accurate passer......who lacks zip on the ball. There are times that his passes just seem to float. Which makes me worry that he will be limited as a QB.

Has anyone else noticed this, or am I being overly nitpicky? Serious question, and not meant to slam Wilson. (again, I'm a fan)
I disagree with this. As I've mentioned previously, because he went to N.C. State, I watched nearly every one of his college games (including at Wisconsin). My view based on watching him play is that he has a strong arm and does not "lack zip," and I'm surprised anyone who has watched him play much would think that. My view is supported by other sources, as well:

NFL Draft Profile

STRENGTHS Wilson is an accurate passer. He is a very mechanical quarterback who is consistent in his drop step and thoroughly understands how to move within the pocket and evade when the pocket collapses. He is an athlete and can torque his body to make any sort of throw on the run, and is accurate in this setting. He is a born signal caller who shows command of the offense. He has the arm strength to make the deep throws and the touch to put it on a receiver in stride.
CBS Draft Profile

OVERVIEW

...Athletic, strong-armed and poised under pressure, Wilson proved to be an immediate standout in two power conferences, easing concerns about his ability to handle the jump in size and competition in the NFL despite his less than ideal stature...

ANALYSIS
Accuracy: Was the nation's most efficient quarterback in 2011, earning a 191.78 QB rating -- over 22 points higher than the next highest rated QB from a pro-style offense (Andrew Luck)... Showcased the ability to consistently throw receivers open versus single coverage as a senior, demonstrating impressive improvement in this area from his time at NC State... Delivers a tight spiral that is easily tracked and caught. Typically hits his receivers in stride whether on zipped crossing routes, touch passes dropped over the top of defenders or line drives leading receivers out of bounds on the deep out. Arm Strength: Arguably Wilson's most impressive trait, especially considering his lack of ideal size. Can easily make every NFL throw, showing the ability to drive the football to the sideline on a line from the opposite hash. Can send the ball 40-50 yards downfield with a flick of his wrist...
His N.C. State Offensive Coordinator

From the start – Wilson’s redshirt freshman season in 2007 – Bible said there was never about a question of arm strength.

He’s always had the big arm. That’s the first thing I noticed,” Bible said. “There wasn’t any doubt about his ability to make the tough throws.”
Waldman

Wilson has a compact delivery and the arm strength to deliver the ball on the move with deep accuracy. He throws the ball with good velocity and can make pinpoint passes on basic outs, slants and seam routes. He has a sound over-the-top and compact delivery, and he has enough natural arm strength to throw some of the intermediate routes of the passing tree in a tight pocket that prevents him from stepping into the pass and torquing his hips. His deep arm has a consistent range of 50 yards with good velocity and accuracy both from the pocket and on the move.
 
Shocked at all the love that Wilson is getting over Kaep.

The talent and ceiling for Kaep is several tiers above Wilson from an NFL standpoint. He's faster, taller, throws a better deep ball, throws the ball faster period.... you name it. And Kaep appears to have the mental capacity to run an NFL offense. For all Wilson did last year, he doesn't have the strongest arm and I think that's going to hurt him as defenses force him to make "honey-hole" throws down the field. I vividly remember the Senior Bowl where one of the Packers beat writers said he fluttered his first deep down field pass. That problem isn't going away and he's not following in Brees' footsteps with a weak deep ball.

Ideally I would take Wilson's brain in Kaep's body, but otherwise I'll just take Kaep.

Wilson is more developed at the moment since he played in several pro style offenses in college (and the full NFL season) and the stats seem to back up the argument that they are close, but I'll take the guy that is already performing at Wilson's level but has a WAY higher ceiling.
A couple of reactions here:

1. You're asserting that Kaep's ceiling is higher than Wilson's. What do you see as Wilson's ceiling? What if I asserted that Wilson's ceiling is Drew Brees with running ability? How would that change the math?

2. Per the bolded, others have posted stats that (at a minimum) suggest Wilson performed at a higher level than Kaepernick in the 2nd half of 2012. Further, there was a substantive back & forth debate on which player had more "NFL prep" the past couple of years. In other words, not as much of a slam dunk as you assert in the bold.
1. I'm not a believer that Wilson will consistently throw the ball 40 yards downfield on a rope to a 6 inch window. I don't believe he has the arm strength and a few coachspeak quotes aren't going to convince me otherwise. Kaep does not lack arm strength in any sense of the word. I will take the guy with the stronger arm (and similar other mental attributes) any day of the week. Kaep's ceiling is scary; he has the arm strength of Rodgers with more running ability. I don't think he will compare to the Brady/Rodgers/Brees because of their unbelievable mental abilities, but that's another discussion.

2. Fantasy stats? Sure, they're about the same and will likely continue to be around the same level. Real-life football? I think Kaep played the same or better at the end of last year. It's not all about stats, son. And in real-life, I'll take Kaep over Wilson easily. I just don't get how this is even a debate. Taller/bigger/faster/better arm.

 
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wilson has a pretty pass and a lot of touch because of that people think he does not have a strong arm because he does not try to break guys hands like farve the weiner texter john edwards part ii but they are just wrong he just makes it look easy and people are dumb i watched all of his wisco games and when the refs cheated and let him beat the packers he has a big arm when needed take that to the bank

 
2. Fantasy stats? Sure, they're about the same and will likely continue to be around the same level. Real-life football? I think Kaep played the same or better end of last year. It's not all about stats, son. And in real-life, I'll take Kaep over Wilson easily. I just don't get how this is even a debate. Taller/bigger/faster/better arm.
Wilson had a higher completion percentage, higher yards per attempt, and less interceptions. Over the last 8 games, the Seahawks went 7-1, including a 58-0 win, a 50-17 win, and a 42-13 blowout of the 49ers. I strongly disagree that Kaep played better.

 
RG3 and Kaep are going to be stars because they are passers that can run. Wilson is a runner that can pass. There's a huge difference.
:lmao:
Don't argue with him. No matter what you say you won't convince him otherwise.

1. I'm not a believer that Wilson will consistently throw the ball 40 yards downfield on a rope to a 6 inch window. I don't believe he has the arm strength and a few coachspeak quotes aren't going to convince me otherwise. .
 
This is one of the things that has always worried me about Wilson when I watch him play. And keep in mind, I'm a huge fan (partly since he was a Badger for a year). What I see is a very athletic, highly accurate passer......who lacks zip on the ball. There are times that his passes just seem to float. Which makes me worry that he will be limited as a QB.

Has anyone else noticed this, or am I being overly nitpicky? Serious question, and not meant to slam Wilson. (again, I'm a fan)
I disagree with this. As I've mentioned previously, because he went to N.C. State, I watched nearly every one of his college games (including at Wisconsin). My view based on watching him play is that he has a strong arm and does not "lack zip," and I'm surprised anyone who has watched him play much would think that. My view is supported by other sources, as well:

NFL Draft Profile

STRENGTHS Wilson is an accurate passer. He is a very mechanical quarterback who is consistent in his drop step and thoroughly understands how to move within the pocket and evade when the pocket collapses. He is an athlete and can torque his body to make any sort of throw on the run, and is accurate in this setting. He is a born signal caller who shows command of the offense. He has the arm strength to make the deep throws and the touch to put it on a receiver in stride.
CBS Draft Profile

OVERVIEW

...Athletic, strong-armed and poised under pressure, Wilson proved to be an immediate standout in two power conferences, easing concerns about his ability to handle the jump in size and competition in the NFL despite his less than ideal stature...

ANALYSIS
Accuracy: Was the nation's most efficient quarterback in 2011, earning a 191.78 QB rating -- over 22 points higher than the next highest rated QB from a pro-style offense (Andrew Luck)... Showcased the ability to consistently throw receivers open versus single coverage as a senior, demonstrating impressive improvement in this area from his time at NC State... Delivers a tight spiral that is easily tracked and caught. Typically hits his receivers in stride whether on zipped crossing routes, touch passes dropped over the top of defenders or line drives leading receivers out of bounds on the deep out. Arm Strength: Arguably Wilson's most impressive trait, especially considering his lack of ideal size. Can easily make every NFL throw, showing the ability to drive the football to the sideline on a line from the opposite hash. Can send the ball 40-50 yards downfield with a flick of his wrist...
His N.C. State Offensive Coordinator

From the start – Wilson’s redshirt freshman season in 2007 – Bible said there was never about a question of arm strength.

He’s always had the big arm. That’s the first thing I noticed,” Bible said. “There wasn’t any doubt about his ability to make the tough throws.”
Waldman

Wilson has a compact delivery and the arm strength to deliver the ball on the move with deep accuracy. He throws the ball with good velocity and can make pinpoint passes on basic outs, slants and seam routes. He has a sound over-the-top and compact delivery, and he has enough natural arm strength to throw some of the intermediate routes of the passing tree in a tight pocket that prevents him from stepping into the pass and torquing his hips. His deep arm has a consistent range of 50 yards with good velocity and accuracy both from the pocket and on the move.
Thanks for posting JWB. I'm not claiming to be an expert here - just noting what my observations have been.

It's very helpful to see all of these examples regarding his arm strength. Perhaps I'm overreacting to instances where he lofted it up with "touch" to give his receiver a chance to go for the ball. Or perhaps my memory is faulty. Or both. :)

Again, thanks for all the examples.

 
Shocked at all the love that Wilson is getting over Kaep.

The talent and ceiling for Kaep is several tiers above Wilson from an NFL standpoint. He's faster, taller, throws a better deep ball, throws the ball faster period.... you name it. And Kaep appears to have the mental capacity to run an NFL offense. For all Wilson did last year, he doesn't have the strongest arm and I think that's going to hurt him as defenses force him to make "honey-hole" throws down the field. I vividly remember the Senior Bowl where one of the Packers beat writers said he fluttered his first deep down field pass. That problem isn't going away and he's not following in Brees' footsteps with a weak deep ball.

Ideally I would take Wilson's brain in Kaep's body, but otherwise I'll just take Kaep.

Wilson is more developed at the moment since he played in several pro style offenses in college (and the full NFL season) and the stats seem to back up the argument that they are close, but I'll take the guy that is already performing at Wilson's level but has a WAY higher ceiling.
A couple of reactions here:

1. You're asserting that Kaep's ceiling is higher than Wilson's. What do you see as Wilson's ceiling? What if I asserted that Wilson's ceiling is Drew Brees with running ability? How would that change the math?

2. Per the bolded, others have posted stats that (at a minimum) suggest Wilson performed at a higher level than Kaepernick in the 2nd half of 2012. Further, there was a substantive back & forth debate on which player had more "NFL prep" the past couple of years. In other words, not as much of a slam dunk as you assert in the bold.
1. I'm not a believer that Wilson will consistently throw the ball 40 yards downfield on a rope to a 6 inch window. I don't believe he has the arm strength and a few coachspeak quotes aren't going to convince me otherwise. Kaep does not lack arm strength in any sense of the word. I will take the guy with the stronger arm (and similar other mental attributes) any day of the week. Kaep's ceiling is scary; he has the arm strength of Rodgers with more running ability. I don't think he will compare to the Brady/Rodgers/Brees because of their unbelievable mental abilities, but that's another discussion.

2. Fantasy stats? Sure, they're about the same and will likely continue to be around the same level. Real-life football? I think Kaep played the same or better at the end of last year. It's not all about stats, son. And in real-life, I'll take Kaep over Wilson easily. I just don't get how this is even a debate. Taller/bigger/faster/better arm.
Jeff George had a rocket arm too. He was also taller than Wilson. Discuss.

 
RG3 and Kaep are going to be stars because they are passers that can run. Wilson is a runner that can pass. There's a huge difference.
I completely disagree with the bolded statement. It's a subjective notion, but I'm interested in how you would justify it.

 
1. I'm not a believer that Wilson will consistently throw the ball 40 yards downfield on a rope to a 6 inch window. I don't believe he has the arm strength and a few coachspeak quotes aren't going to convince me otherwise. Kaep does not lack arm strength in any sense of the word. I will take the guy with the stronger arm (and similar other mental attributes) any day of the week. Kaep's ceiling is scary; he has the arm strength of Rodgers with more running ability. I don't think he will compare to the Brady/Rodgers/Brees because of their unbelievable mental abilities, but that's another discussion.
Do you call draft profiles coachspeak? I'm not sure if you are referring to the links I posted.

 
Jeff George had a rocket arm too. He was also taller than Wilson. Discuss.
How many playoff wins did Jeff George have? Kaep went to the Super Bowl in his first season starting. He's also a physical freak compared to Wilson.

Discuss.

 
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This is one of the things that has always worried me about Wilson when I watch him play. And keep in mind, I'm a huge fan (partly since he was a Badger for a year). What I see is a very athletic, highly accurate passer......who lacks zip on the ball. There are times that his passes just seem to float. Which makes me worry that he will be limited as a QB.

Has anyone else noticed this, or am I being overly nitpicky? Serious question, and not meant to slam Wilson. (again, I'm a fan)
I disagree with this. As I've mentioned previously, because he went to N.C. State, I watched nearly every one of his college games (including at Wisconsin). My view based on watching him play is that he has a strong arm and does not "lack zip," and I'm surprised anyone who has watched him play much would think that. My view is supported by other sources, as well:

NFL Draft Profile

STRENGTHS Wilson is an accurate passer. He is a very mechanical quarterback who is consistent in his drop step and thoroughly understands how to move within the pocket and evade when the pocket collapses. He is an athlete and can torque his body to make any sort of throw on the run, and is accurate in this setting. He is a born signal caller who shows command of the offense. He has the arm strength to make the deep throws and the touch to put it on a receiver in stride.
CBS Draft Profile

OVERVIEW

...Athletic, strong-armed and poised under pressure, Wilson proved to be an immediate standout in two power conferences, easing concerns about his ability to handle the jump in size and competition in the NFL despite his less than ideal stature...

ANALYSIS
Accuracy: Was the nation's most efficient quarterback in 2011, earning a 191.78 QB rating -- over 22 points higher than the next highest rated QB from a pro-style offense (Andrew Luck)... Showcased the ability to consistently throw receivers open versus single coverage as a senior, demonstrating impressive improvement in this area from his time at NC State... Delivers a tight spiral that is easily tracked and caught. Typically hits his receivers in stride whether on zipped crossing routes, touch passes dropped over the top of defenders or line drives leading receivers out of bounds on the deep out. Arm Strength: Arguably Wilson's most impressive trait, especially considering his lack of ideal size. Can easily make every NFL throw, showing the ability to drive the football to the sideline on a line from the opposite hash. Can send the ball 40-50 yards downfield with a flick of his wrist...
His N.C. State Offensive Coordinator

From the start – Wilson’s redshirt freshman season in 2007 – Bible said there was never about a question of arm strength.

He’s always had the big arm. That’s the first thing I noticed,” Bible said. “There wasn’t any doubt about his ability to make the tough throws.”
Waldman

Wilson has a compact delivery and the arm strength to deliver the ball on the move with deep accuracy. He throws the ball with good velocity and can make pinpoint passes on basic outs, slants and seam routes. He has a sound over-the-top and compact delivery, and he has enough natural arm strength to throw some of the intermediate routes of the passing tree in a tight pocket that prevents him from stepping into the pass and torquing his hips. His deep arm has a consistent range of 50 yards with good velocity and accuracy both from the pocket and on the move.
Thanks for posting JWB. I'm not claiming to be an expert here - just noting what my observations have been.

It's very helpful to see all of these examples regarding his arm strength. Perhaps I'm overreacting to instances where he lofted it up with "touch" to give his receiver a chance to go for the ball. Or perhaps my memory is faulty. Or both. :)

Again, thanks for all the examples.
I will also note that in college Wilson put a lot of trust in his receivers to go up and get the ball downfield. There were many times when he threw it up with air under it to allow his receivers to adjust their routes to the ball. I'm not sure if that's what you are referring to here, but I don't think that would be an example of problem with his passing ability.

 
RG3 and Kaep are going to be stars because they are passers that can run. Wilson is a runner that can pass. There's a huge difference.
I completely disagree with the bolded statement. It's a subjective notion, but I'm interested in how you would justify it.
:goodposting: I don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that Wilson is a runner first.
I'm in the minority and that's fine, but teams like the Falcons showed exactly how to beat him. In the first half they flooded the passing lanes and got up in his face. Result? Lots of him flushing out of the pocket, ~50% completion rate, and held the Seahawks scoreless. For some insane reason the Falcons softened the defense to more prevent-style and let Wilson do the magic wand stuff with a lot of time and no pressure. But the Falcons still ended up winning.

Hype never pans out the way people think. I'm going out on a limb to say the Colts and Redskins both miss the playoffs with their 2nd year QBs, and the Seahawks barely make it in on a wild-card, then get bounced early.
 
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RG3 and Kaep are going to be stars because they are passers that can run. Wilson is a runner that can pass. There's a huge difference.
I completely disagree with the bolded statement. It's a subjective notion, but I'm interested in how you would justify it.
:goodposting: I don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that Wilson is a runner first.
I'm in the minority and that's fine, but teams like the Falcons showed exactly how to beat him. In the first half they flooded the passing lanes and got up in his face. Result? Lots of him flushing out of the pocket, ~50% completion rate, and held the Seahawks scoreless. For some insane reason the Falcons softened the defense to more prevent-style and let Wilson do the magic wand stuff with a lot of time and no pressure. But the Falcons still ended up winning.

Hype never pans out the way people think. I'm going out on a limb to say the Colts and Redskins both miss the playoffs with their 2nd year QBs, and the Seahawks barely make it in on a wild-card, then get bounced early.
I can't figure out if you are trolling or just don't know what you are talking about. :coffee:

 
RG3 and Kaep are going to be stars because they are passers that can run. Wilson is a runner that can pass. There's a huge difference.
I completely disagree with the bolded statement. It's a subjective notion, but I'm interested in how you would justify it.
:goodposting: I don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion that Wilson is a runner first.
I'm in the minority and that's fine, but teams like the Falcons showed exactly how to beat him. In the first half they flooded the passing lanes and got up in his face. Result? Lots of him flushing out of the pocket, ~50% completion rate, and held the Seahawks scoreless. For some insane reason the Falcons softened the defense to more prevent-style and let Wilson do the magic wand stuff with a lot of time and no pressure. But the Falcons still ended up winning.

Hype never pans out the way people think. I'm going out on a limb to say the Colts and Redskins both miss the playoffs with their 2nd year QBs, and the Seahawks barely make it in on a wild-card, then get bounced early.
Wilson was 10/17 (59%) in the first half of the Atlanta game and ran twice, both times for first downs. In that first half, Lynch fumbled to end one Seattle drive in Atlanta territory, and another ended at the Atlanta 11 when Seattle RBs failed to convert 3rd & 1 and 4th & 1. Neither of those things were Wilson's fault.

You still haven't explained your comment that Wilson is a runner first. Do you have an explanation?

 
Wilson was 10/17 (59%) in the first half of the Atlanta game and ran twice, both times for first downs. In that first half, Lynch fumbled to end one Seattle drive in Atlanta territory, and another ended at the Atlanta 11 when Seattle RBs failed to convert 3rd & 1 and 4th & 1. Neither of those things were Wilson's fault.

You still haven't explained your comment that Wilson is a runner first. Do you have an explanation?
I didn't say he was a runner first. I said he's a runner that can pass. Anyone who is not a pocket passer first and a runner as an afterthought is not long for NFL greatness in this day and age. Kaep and RG3 are going to develop into great passers, if they aren't already. I think Wilson is going to get exposed in the next couple of years by teams that make him throw to the honey-holes. This is just a gut feeling and my opinion ... everyone has them. Everyone is hot on Lamar Miller too, but my gut says he's not going to break the top 15 for fantasy RBs this year, even though he's primed for a great year. It's just my opinion and that's what we're here to share.

 
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Wilson was 10/17 (59%) in the first half of the Atlanta game and ran twice, both times for first downs. In that first half, Lynch fumbled to end one Seattle drive in Atlanta territory, and another ended at the Atlanta 11 when Seattle RBs failed to convert 3rd & 1 and 4th & 1. Neither of those things were Wilson's fault.

You still haven't explained your comment that Wilson is a runner first. Do you have an explanation?
I didn't say he was a runner first. I said he's a runner that can pass. Anyone who is not a pocket passer first and a runner as an afterthought is not long for NFL greatness in this day and age. Kaep and RG3 are going to develop into great passers, if they aren't already. I think Wilson is going to get exposed in the next couple of years by teams that make him throw to the honey-holes. This is just a gut feeling and my opinion ... everyone has them. Everyone is hot on Lamar Miller too, but my gut says he's not going to break the top 15 for fantasy RBs this year, even though he's primed for a great year. It's just my opinion and that's what we're here to share.
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2013/5/6/4304096/russell-wilson-the-signature-nfl-throw

Read this and then tell me how you feel.

And also, for anyone that thinks Wilson has anything but an well above average arm, this article is for you. It basically dispels every myth I've read about Wilson.

 
Wilson was 10/17 (59%) in the first half of the Atlanta game and ran twice, both times for first downs. In that first half, Lynch fumbled to end one Seattle drive in Atlanta territory, and another ended at the Atlanta 11 when Seattle RBs failed to convert 3rd & 1 and 4th & 1. Neither of those things were Wilson's fault.

You still haven't explained your comment that Wilson is a runner first. Do you have an explanation?
I didn't say he was a runner first. I said he's a runner that can pass. Anyone who is not a pocket passer first and a runner as an afterthought is not long for NFL greatness in this day and age. Kaep and RG3 are going to develop into great passers, if they aren't already. I think Wilson is going to get exposed in the next couple of years by teams that make him throw to the honey-holes. This is just a gut feeling and my opinion ... everyone has them. Everyone is hot on Lamar Miller too, but my gut says he's not going to break the top 15 for fantasy RBs this year, even though he's primed for a great year. It's just my opinion and that's what we're here to share.
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2013/5/6/4304096/russell-wilson-the-signature-nfl-throw

Read this and then tell me how you feel.

And also, for anyone that thinks Wilson has anything but an well above average arm, this article is for you. It basically dispels every myth I've read about Wilson.
:o

 
1. I'm not a believer that Wilson will consistently throw the ball 40 yards downfield on a rope to a 6 inch window. I don't believe he has the arm strength and a few coachspeak quotes aren't going to convince me otherwise. Kaep does not lack arm strength in any sense of the word. I will take the guy with the stronger arm (and similar other mental attributes) any day of the week. Kaep's ceiling is scary; he has the arm strength of Rodgers with more running ability. I don't think he will compare to the Brady/Rodgers/Brees because of their unbelievable mental abilities, but that's another discussion.
Do you call draft profiles coachspeak? I'm not sure if you are referring to the links I posted.
It is because he is obviously smarter then all the scouts and GMs in the NFL and it is a traveshamockery that he hasn't been hired yet! Or he has a mammoth man crush on Kapernick.

 
Wilson was 10/17 (59%) in the first half of the Atlanta game and ran twice, both times for first downs. In that first half, Lynch fumbled to end one Seattle drive in Atlanta territory, and another ended at the Atlanta 11 when Seattle RBs failed to convert 3rd & 1 and 4th & 1. Neither of those things were Wilson's fault.

You still haven't explained your comment that Wilson is a runner first. Do you have an explanation?
I didn't say he was a runner first. I said he's a runner that can pass. Anyone who is not a pocket passer first and a runner as an afterthought is not long for NFL greatness in this day and age. Kaep and RG3 are going to develop into great passers, if they aren't already. I think Wilson is going to get exposed in the next couple of years by teams that make him throw to the honey-holes. This is just a gut feeling and my opinion ... everyone has them. Everyone is hot on Lamar Miller too, but my gut says he's not going to break the top 15 for fantasy RBs this year, even though he's primed for a great year. It's just my opinion and that's what we're here to share.
I'm a big Kaep fan, but this is a bit too much Kool-Aid, and Wilson is the real deal as a passer.

 
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