Twenty-Four Eighty-Four
Footballguy
Taysom. Hill.
Your response is logical.But many of these teams would probably stink without their franchise QB. GB, KC, Seattle, etc. MVP will come down to record and stats and Ben is only superior in one of those categories. And the Steelers defense has a lot to do with that.
This does not take away anything from Ben. How he’s changed his style of play as he’s aged is nothing short of amazing.
I think you can make a pretty good case that Pittsburgh is in fact the best team in football. The defense probably has more impact playmakers than any other defense in the league and the offense is efficient with several good playmakers and a smart QB. The special teams is also pretty good. Very few glaring weaknesses. I think this team could hold their own against KC (and certainly any other team in the league).Your response is logical.
Even though Pittsburgh is 10-0 I don’t think that they are the best team. But I do think Ben is the most valuable member of the team with the best record and why I would vote for him for MVP if the vote were today.
They have had a soft schedule but they pass the eye test as a team that should do well in the playoffs. They have a very good defense and special teams. They have a very experienced QB and coach with some young, playmaker WRs. Yes they've beaten up on a lot of weak teams but they also do have 3 impressive wins against Tennessee, Baltimore and Cleveland.Ben has played very well as have the Steelers, but he's nowhere near the mvp at this point. Somewhat related, the Steelers schedule has been uh pretty soft.
For sure, they are a very tough team. a KC Pit AFC title game would be very interesting stuff.They have had a soft schedule but they pass the eye test as a team that should do well in the playoffs. They have a very good defense and special teams. They have a very experienced QB and coach with some young, playmaker WRs. Yes they've beaten up on a lot of weak teams but they also do have 3 impressive wins against Tennessee, Baltimore and Cleveland.
MahomesThe answer is Big Ben.
I mean last year the Steelers go 8-8 after Ben gets hurt early in the year. QB play was below average in 2019 and that’s being kind.
Steelers currently 10-0 and really didn’t get anybody in the off-season to make them better. I won’t argue if you call out Claypool as a value-add new addition.
I know some of the players listed have better stats. I get it. But seriously, who is really more valuable right now to their team than Big Ben?
Yet you're "comfortable" putting Brady 6? Show me your work. What has Brady done to deserve being ranked above Ben this year?Mahomes
R Wilson
Rodgers
K Murray
D Henry
Brady
I might be comfortable with putting Ben in 7th place, but I'd have to think about it.
Look, has Ben ever tried to convince the refs that it was still 4th down after a failed 4th down conversion? No? Just shows the true fighting spirit Tom has, that is the kind of MVP caliber play that doesnt show on the stat sheet.Yet you're "comfortable" putting Brady 6? Show me your work. What has Brady done to deserve being ranked above Ben this year?
Fine, I’ll put Ben 6th and Brady 7th. Happy? I’m not gonna quibble about 6th vs 7th place in regards to a guy (Ben) who isn’t a serious mvp candidate according to the Vegas odds. When Ben gets one of the five best odds to win it this year, then I’ll entertain him as a serious contender. Deal?Yet you're "comfortable" putting Brady 6? Show me your work. What has Brady done to deserve being ranked above Ben this year?
I agree that neither is a real contender (I said as much earlier about Ben). Given that you listed Brady (and not Ben) in top 6 and said you might be comfortable putting Ben 7, my interpretation from your post was that Brady was on a tier above Ben. No big deal.Fine, I’ll put Ben 6th and Brady 7th. Happy? I’m not gonna quibble about 6th vs 7th place in regards to a guy (Ben) who isn’t a serious mvp candidate according to the Vegas odds. When Ben gets one of the five best odds to win it this year, then I’ll entertain him as a serious contender. Deal?
If you’re using Vegas odds as your barometer then Henry comes off the list.Fine, I’ll put Ben 6th and Brady 7th. Happy? I’m not gonna quibble about 6th vs 7th place in regards to a guy (Ben) who isn’t a serious mvp candidate according to the Vegas odds. When Ben gets one of the five best odds to win it this year, then I’ll entertain him as a serious contender. Deal?
Not surprised. A RB has to have an all-time great season to win the MVP.If you’re using Vegas odds as your barometer then Henry comes off the list.
Henry isn’t even top 10 in regards to odds.
I wouldn't rule out Tom Brady. Especially if Tampa takes the 1 seed. I think he's got a better shot than Murray to be honest. I think Rodgers is the favorite right now.Not surprised. A RB has to have an all-time great season to win the MVP.
So yeah, I will take Henry off the list.
If the list is only players that have a realistic shot to win it right now, barring a massive change, then it's Mahomes, Wilson, Rodgers and Murray. Ben is not on that list.
Brady leads the league in illegal forward pass completion yardage.Brady isn't even sniffing top 5 in the MVP race as of right now. If you're going to include Brady in the conversation, then Big Ben also belongs there because he's been better.
I can't see a case for any RB. Especially one on a losing team.what about cook?
Any vote for comeback player of the year that isn't for Alex Smith should be thrown out. What Ben has done isn't even 1/100th as impressive.Faust said:
You don’t say?Faust said:
The Comeback Player of the Year award is probably the least "stat based" award given. Alex Smith's ability to even play is a perfect example, and his stats are secondary. Years from now few will remember how many games he played or touchdowns he threw, but most will remember that injury and his perseverance to play again.Any vote for comeback player of the year that isn't for Alex Smith should be thrown out.
I think he also gets hurt by many not having high expectations for him coming into the season and many seemingly not buying into his hot start. Unfair? Probably, but it is hard to overcome that perception. Realistically, he should be higher on the list than Murray when you look more at it more closely. I can't say he is top 3 since Mahomes, Wilson and Rodgers are the top 3 by a pretty big margin, IMO, and the current odds reflect that, but Allen deserves a little more love for sure.Does quality of opponent ever factor into these discussions?
The Bills have played only two teams that have fewer than 6 wins, one of which is the Pats. Allen’s combined numbers are not far off the others.
He gets hurt big time because his D gave up that Hail Murray. If the lasting impression of that game is his final minute beautiful TD pass to Diggs to move the Bills to 8-2, I bet he is higher up some lists.
It does not.Does quality of opponent ever factor into these discussions?
That's not how the voters vote.But seriously, who is really more valuable right now to their team than Big Ben?
Agreed. At this point, it’s not a close race.The award is Mahomes' to lose.
Id say Rodgers is still "close". While its Mahomes to lose...Rodgers doesn't appear to be going away.Agreed. At this point, it’s not a close race.
Aside from the putrid performance against Tampa Bay, Rodgers has been very consistent. I still think there is sizable gap between the two.Id say Rodgers is still "close". While its Mahomes to lose...Rodgers doesn't appear to be going away.
Id say Rodgers is still "close". While its Mahomes to lose...Rodgers doesn't appear to be going away.
I suppose its close, but Mahomes has the edge for sure.Aside from the putrid performance against Tampa Bay, Rodgers has been very consistent. I still think there is sizable gap between the two.
Over Alex Smith?Big Ben is an easy comeback player of the year.
I think both are deserving. But I think Smith is going to win it based on what he went through and his incredible story.Oof - yeah, forgot about that. Give it to Smith.
Unfortunately irrelevant per voters.I'd still vote Rodgers over Mahomes. He's doing about as much, with quite a bit less talent around him.
Its a 3 man race in my eyes. I think Wilson is still in play, if he finishes hot enough. There is still about 30% of the season to go, a lot can happen.
Agreed - had circumstances been different Smith would be been riding the pine & would have been a nice story while Roethlisberger ran away with CPOY.I think both are deserving. But I think Smith is going to win it based on what he went through and his incredible story.
I go based on what I think were I a voter.Unfortunately irrelevant per voters.
Depends if this thread is based on who you THINK should win the MVP if YOU were a voter, or who you think will/should win it based on how the votes are done.
But you're right that it's a 3 man race and no one else comes into play (maybe Ben if they go undefeated but I still don't think so)I'd still vote Rodgers over Mahomes. He's doing about as much, with quite a bit less talent around him.
Its a 3 man race in my eyes. I think Wilson is still in play, if he finishes hot enough. There is still about 30% of the season to go, a lot can happen.
Rushing TDs/Yards matter too.Though, just going by stats, Rodgers does have more TD passes than Mahomes. Wilson is tied in 1 fewer game(I'm going to assume he'll have at least 1 against the Eagles tonight)
This isn’t how it works, and honestly I don’t see the talent gap as that wide a chasm.I'd still vote Rodgers over Mahomes. He's doing about as much, with quite a bit less talent around him.
jinx - lol, you were more succinct.But you're right that it's a 3 man race and no one else comes into play (maybe Ben if they go undefeated but I still don't think so)
As for weapons, I would put them on par.
Adams > Hill (barely)
Tonyon << Kelce (by a lot)
Jones > CEH (close)
WIlliams > Bell (close)
GBP Oline > KC Oline (close)
It the Steelers go undefeated, I think it might make TJ Watt the DPOY, but I'm not sure it does anything for Roethlisberger. He simply doesn't have anywhere near the production.But you're right that it's a 3 man race and no one else comes into play (maybe Ben if they go undefeated but I still don't think so)
As for weapons, I would put them on par.
Adams > Hill (barely)
Tonyon << Kelce (by a lot)
Jones > CEH (close)
WIlliams > Bell (close)
GBP Oline > KC Oline (close)
Ya Ben still prob wouldn't win even undefeated you're right... but I think a few might consider him.It the Steelers go undefeated, I think it might make TJ Watt the DPOY, but I'm not sure it does anything for Roethlisberger. He simply doesn't have anywhere near the production.
Adams, Jones, Bahktiari all missed multiple games this season though. The Chiefs have stayed pretty healthy other than Watkins.
I'd probably say:
CEH/Bell=Jones/Williams
Adams/Lazard/MVS=Hill/Watkins/Hardman
Kelce>>>Tonyan
GB OL>>>>KC OL
Reid>>LaFluer
Ok, breaking it down 1 by 1 positionally, I probably jumped the gun a little giving Mahomes a big edge. I still think he has it easier, but its pretty close.
Doing the same exercise for Wilson, I think his RBs are equal(when healthy) WR's are quite a bit better, TE is somewhere between KC and GB(closer to GB) OL someone between GB and KC(closer to GB) so Wilson has arguably the best situation of the 3.