Raiders et. al. v. J. Russell (1 Viewer)

[BeachBums]

Wondering about the situation with Jamarcus and the Raiders. Does anyone have the scoop on if they're even talking? What happens if they can't/won't come to an agreement? Can the Raiders trade him without having a contract?

 

[BigRed]

Yeah but I think if they don't do SOMETHING w/him (trade, sign etc) he ultimately ends up back in the draft next year. I can't recall that ever happening, at least w/someone of significance. Anybody know?

 

[Mister CIA]

Yeah but I think if they don't do SOMETHING w/him (trade, sign etc) he ultimately ends up back in the draft next year. I can't recall that ever happening, at least w/someone of significance. Anybody know?

Bo Jackson.

 

[sos32]

John Elway - Colts

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Wondering about the situation with Jamarcus and the Raiders. Does anyone have the scoop on if they're even talking? What happens if they can't/won't come to an agreement? Can the Raiders trade him without having a contract?

This might give some insight. Unconfirmed but a fan said that he had spoken with Browns GM Phil Savage off the record and this is what he claims to have heard from Savage.Take this FWIW, I'm only passing it along.

http://forums.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=149#s=14...47&t=911835

Posted: 8/29/2007 11:25 PM

I talked with Phil Savage tonight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I attended a United Way function at CBS, in which Phil Savage was the guest speaker. I had a chance to talk with him one on one towards the end of the night. I found him to be extremely humble and sincere. Some of the things we talked about are not really earth shattering, but I thought maybe some of you would be interested to hear what he had to say. The following is a brief summary of what we talked about:

Me – “What is Romeo’s future with the Browns?”

Phil – “He’s the right coach at the right time.”

-that’s all he had to say about Romeo-

Me – “I know you said that Quinn won’t start the season opener, but do you see him starting at all during this season?”

Phil – “Probably not, I’m not sure. My number one goal is not to make the playoffs, but to win the Super Bowl. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to make the playoffs, but every year my first goal is to win the Super Bowl. Let’s face it, we won’t win the Super Bowl this year. So why rush Brady if he’s not ready. I’ll use an analogy. Let’s say the Browns Organization is an automobile. A $700 million automobile. And let’s say you have a son who just turned age 16. You’re not going to throw him the keys to that $700 million automobile the first day he turns 16. You’re going to first teach him how to drive and how to handle the automobile before you let him take control of it.”

Me – “I know you’re close with Jamarcus Russell, what’s his situation look like?”

Phil – “Jamarcus is a good kid, and I really feel bad about his situation. I think Jamarcus and his agent have decided to settle on a certain amount of guaranteed $$. And it’s an amount he deserves, based upon him being a QB that was selected #1 in the draft. And it’s an amount that most NFL Organizations would probably give him. But, once an NFL Organization and the player agree upon a contract and agree on the guaranteed $$, the organization is required to deposit the guaranteed $$ in a fund within a certain period of time. The problem is that the Raiders Organization does not have the funds or the revenue to deposit the amount of $$ Jamarcus is looking for within that required period of time. And like I said, he deserves the $$ he and his agent decided to settle on, most other NFL Organizations would probably give it to him, and I don’t see his agent going any lower on this one.”

Its already the longest holdout in modern times so it could be this report is accurate but I have no way to confirm or deny any of it, just passing it along for those interested in what some have heard about that situation.

 

[kaso]

:hijack:

The problem is that the amount that Russell and his agent agreed upon isn't inline with what the Raiders are willing to pay in guaranteed money. That hasn't been a secret.

:/hijack:

But yes, if the Raiders fail to sign Russell he will enter the draft again next year. And I would guess he wouldn't be selected first overall, therefor would not get the money he and his agent think he should get.

 

[Ozymandias]

:hijack:The problem is that the amount that Russell and his agent agreed upon isn't inline with what the Raiders are willing to pay in guaranteed money. That hasn't been a secret. :/hijack:But yes, if the Raiders fail to sign Russell he will enter the draft again next year. And I would guess he wouldn't be selected first overall, therefor would not get the money he and his agent think he should get.

I think that's true. He will have been out of football for a year, and teams will think he or his agent are trouble, because they will want #1 money. Not to say they won't be interested, but he probably won't go #1. It becomes a mess, and he loses one year of earning potential.

 

[az_prof]

:hijack:The problem is that the amount that Russell and his agent agreed upon isn't inline with what the Raiders are willing to pay in guaranteed money. That hasn't been a secret. :/hijack:But yes, if the Raiders fail to sign Russell he will enter the draft again next year. And I would guess he wouldn't be selected first overall, therefor would not get the money he and his agent think he should get.

I think that's true. He will have been out of football for a year, and teams will think he or his agent are trouble, because they will want #1 money. Not to say they won't be interested, but he probably won't go #1. It becomes a mess, and he loses one year of earning potential.

He looks like the sort of guy who could put on weight really easily too...not being in camp...I think this guy is going to have a long road to the NFL at this point. He should have signed for something less as he is just hurting himself in the long run.

 

[strong]

The sad thing about football is that often the number one overall pick is as much of a detriment as it is an advantage for a team since they have to throw so much guaranteed money at one unproven player... So, as a Raiders fan, as much as I think Russell could help make this franchise a winner, I'm also practical enough to think that they could actually head in the right direction without signing him and saving that cap money for a proven player at a different position... especially with as good and young as their defense is.

It's not like the NBA where a team gets absolutely hosed if they lose out on a high draft pick...

I say hold tight, Al Davis, and let Russell think about losing 15 million by slipping to the middle of the first round next year...

 

[Chaos Commish]

But, once an NFL Organization and the player agree upon a contract and agree on the guaranteed $$, the organization is required to deposit the guaranteed $$ in a fund within a certain period of time. The problem is that the Raiders Organization does not have the funds or the revenue to deposit the amount of $$ Jamarcus is looking for within that required period of time. And like I said, he deserves the $$...

Man that's rough. The Raiders can't afford to sign a #1 overall draft pick? I didn't think NFL teams had such liquidity problems.

 

[BoltBacker]

I can't believe al davis drafted the guy without already having him signed. Well, on second thought, yes I can.

 

[Perfect Tommy]

Yeah but I think if they don't do SOMETHING w/him (trade, sign etc) he ultimately ends up back in the draft next year. I can't recall that ever happening, at least w/someone of significance. Anybody know?

Kelly Stouffer couldn't agree with AZ and went back into the draft. John Elway used the threat of going back into the draft as leverage to force IND to trade the #1 pick.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Me – “I know you said that Quinn won’t start the season opener, but do you see him starting at all during this season?”

Phil – “Probably not, I’m not sure. My number one goal is not to make the playoffs, but to win the Super Bowl. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to make the playoffs, but every year my first goal is to win the Super Bowl. Let’s face it, we won’t win the Super Bowl this year. So why rush Brady if he’s not ready. I’ll use an analogy. Let’s say the Browns Organization is an automobile. A $700 million automobile. And let’s say you have a son who just turned age 16. You’re not going to throw him the keys to that $700 million automobile the first day he turns 16. You’re going to first teach him how to drive and how to handle the automobile before you let him take control of it.”

Am I the only one shocked at the fact that he would say this bolded line? Especially in the NFL where so many underdogs come out of nowhere, how on earth could you say that publicly about your own team?

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Me – “I know you said that Quinn won’t start the season opener, but do you see him starting at all during this season?”

Phil – “Probably not, I’m not sure. My number one goal is not to make the playoffs, but to win the Super Bowl. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to make the playoffs, but every year my first goal is to win the Super Bowl. Let’s face it, we won’t win the Super Bowl this year. So why rush Brady if he’s not ready. I’ll use an analogy. Let’s say the Browns Organization is an automobile. A $700 million automobile. And let’s say you have a son who just turned age 16. You’re not going to throw him the keys to that $700 million automobile the first day he turns 16. You’re going to first teach him how to drive and how to handle the automobile before you let him take control of it.”

Am I the only one shocked at the fact that he would say this bolded line? Especially in the NFL where so many underdogs come out of nowhere, how on earth could you say that publicly about your own team?

This was passed along information from a fan board without any way of verification and was stated so at the begining and at the end of passing the information along.The fan who reported this did not have a tape recorder. He was recollecting the gist of what Savage had said.

Do not bug over nomenclature since any words used are not from direct quotes nor are they from a reputable reporter. This was an informal and brief exchange and the fan who 'orininally' shared this and he is not a reporter who are trained to use only direct quotes.

I don't find any of the information of a fantastic nature or I wouldn't have bothered to pass it along.

Per the 'gist' of the Savage comment, I am not bothered in the least bit by that sentiment, to even hint the Browns are not going to win the Super Bowl this year is not an earth shattering sentiment. The pertinent information that applies to this thread is the impasse between the Russell/Raider camps. If the above information is true then that impasse will not breach until the Russell camps caves because if the above is true then the Raiders lack the funds to sign JaMarcus at fair market value.

This would certainly explain the lengthy holdout. A player who is entitled to a fair market valued contract and a team lacking the funds to pay the fair market value. Both sides could lose but only one side can win in this sort of negotiation when one cannot fufill good will obligations and are offering less than fair market compensation.

 

[Courtjester]

So is there a drop dead date for him to sign by or does his status just remain in limbo all year long?

 

[Irish]

The sad thing about football is that often the number one overall pick is as much of a detriment as it is an advantage for a team since they have to throw so much guaranteed money at one unproven player... So, as a Raiders fan, as much as I think Russell could help make this franchise a winner, I'm also practical enough to think that they could actually head in the right direction without signing him and saving that cap money for a proven player at a different position... especially with as good and young as their defense is.

It's not like the NBA where a team gets absolutely hosed if they lose out on a high draft pick...

I say hold tight, Al Davis, and let Russell think about losing 15 million by slipping to the middle of the first round next year...

No way he goes that low IMO. He is big, strong and possesess a rocket for an arm. NFL teams know the situation with regards to the Raiders and they know it is not a problem with Russell's agent. Raiders continue to be the laughing stock of the NFL. It is funny how times have changed Bidwells>>>>Al Davis.

 

[gzilla]

But, once an NFL Organization and the player agree upon a contract and agree on the guaranteed $$, the organization is required to deposit the guaranteed $$ in a fund within a certain period of time. The problem is that the Raiders Organization does not have the funds or the revenue to deposit the amount of $$ Jamarcus is looking for within that required period of time. And like I said, he deserves the $$...

Man that's rough. The Raiders can't afford to sign a #1 overall draft pick? I didn't think NFL teams had such liquidity problems.

This is a landmark case is this is true.Here is an article from Jason Cole quoting sources about how the Raiders are doing everything they can to not pay the bonus money.

Link

I think it's crazy to think that the Raiders don't have the money to pay Russell. But, it sure seems like that is the case.

This is a real bad situation for Russell, and I think league rules prevent a trade from taking place. I feel sorry for the guy.

 

[JHuber77]

Why would anyone want to play for the Raiders anyway? If I was Russell, I'd ask for a whole lot too, that way when your career gets ended short because of subpar play from your offensive line, you can retire early. He is going down faster than a virgin on prom night if they put him in behind that O-line (see Lamont Jordan). If the Raiders didn't want to pay him #1 money, they should have just drafted Calvin Johnson and been done with it, or just traded down, that way they had 2 picks to fix that line.

 

[flufhed]

What a joke. So much for the Raiders' commitment to excellence. Why draft a QB #1 if you aren't prepared to pay him #1 money? And if you discover after the draft that #1 money is more than you thought, then why not just trade the rights to Russell for something you can and will actually use? This is just pathetic.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

But, once an NFL Organization and the player agree upon a contract and agree on the guaranteed $$, the organization is required to deposit the guaranteed $$ in a fund within a certain period of time. The problem is that the Raiders Organization does not have the funds or the revenue to deposit the amount of $$ Jamarcus is looking for within that required period of time. And like I said, he deserves the $$...

Man that's rough. The Raiders can't afford to sign a #1 overall draft pick? I didn't think NFL teams had such liquidity problems.

This is a landmark case is this is true.Here is an article from Jason Cole quoting sources about how the Raiders are doing everything they can to not pay the bonus money.

Link

I think it's crazy to think that the Raiders don't have the money to pay Russell. But, it sure seems like that is the case.

This is a real bad situation for Russell, and I think league rules prevent a trade from taking place. I feel sorry for the guy.

Their is no league rule preventing the trading of an unsigned draft pick but the rookie salary cap pool restrictions allotted to each team have pretty much all been dispersed so in effect you are correct. If the Raiders wanted to trade Russell their is no team in the league with any rookie salary cap for the 2007 season who could sign him. I would imagine that their is a way to finagle incentive bonues to work but Russell would lose out on ALL guarantees and that is the main thing his camp is fighting for.

 

[amnesiac]

i find this whole situation fascinating.

imo, those that think that Russell wouldn't fall far in next year's Not For Long draft are mistaken.

i'm also wondering at what point is the goodwill among the fans, team, and Russell going to be significantly damaged?

 

[Keith Lewis]

There has been chatter over the East Bay radio waves about the possibility of trading JeMarcus, it's just "chatter" so take it for what it's worth. There has also been "chatter" that the key sticking point is JeMarcus and the Raiders main issue with the contract has to do with guarenteed money, but more specifically guarenteed money with direct releationship to personal conduct, what he would get if he went Vick on the Raiders. To me it's disturbing and makes me wonder if JeMarcus is a person with low character. I know if I was living with my mommy in Alabama and had 30 million on the table, if I had nothing to worry about with my own character then i'd give in and sign off that I would uphold myself to high moral standards. As Randy Moss would say Something in Oakland smells fishy.

 

[seatownfavorite]

This is not a likely scenario, but if I was the Oakland Raiders I would end negotiations. Russel is not going to play for the team this year and is going to cost the team a huge amount of money. You would be throwing all of that money away on a guy who is going to ride the bench and contribute zero to the team this year. At this point I think Culpepper is about even money with Russel of ever reaching top QB status in the NFL. What is the incentive to pay Russel?

 

[Keith Lewis]

This is not a likely scenario, but if I was the Oakland Raiders I would end negotiations. Russel is not going to play for the team this year and is going to cost the team a huge amount of money. You would be throwing all of that money away on a guy who is going to ride the bench and contribute zero to the team this year. At this point I think Culpepper is about even money with Russel of ever reaching top QB status in the NFL. What is the incentive to pay Russel?

Russell in this scenario, could say "F You, I'm going back to the college NFL draft in 2008". And Oakland gets ZERO. As a Raider hater, I hope this is what happens, I'd get alot of play out of it here locally.

 

[seatownfavorite]

This is not a likely scenario, but if I was the Oakland Raiders I would end negotiations. Russel is not going to play for the team this year and is going to cost the team a huge amount of money. You would be throwing all of that money away on a guy who is going to ride the bench and contribute zero to the team this year. At this point I think Culpepper is about even money with Russel of ever reaching top QB status in the NFL. What is the incentive to pay Russel?

Russell in this scenario, could say "F You, I'm going back to the college NFL draft in 2008". And Oakland gets ZERO. As a Raider hater, I hope this is what happens, I'd get alot of play out of it here locally.

How does this hurt the Raiders other than public image is my question. From a football and buisness standpoint how does this hurt the Franchise?

 

[Keith Lewis]

This is not a likely scenario, but if I was the Oakland Raiders I would end negotiations. Russel is not going to play for the team this year and is going to cost the team a huge amount of money. You would be throwing all of that money away on a guy who is going to ride the bench and contribute zero to the team this year. At this point I think Culpepper is about even money with Russel of ever reaching top QB status in the NFL. What is the incentive to pay Russel?

Russell in this scenario, could say "F You, I'm going back to the college NFL draft in 2008". And Oakland gets ZERO. As a Raider hater, I hope this is what happens, I'd get alot of play out of it here locally.

How does this hurt the Raiders other than public image is my question. From a football and buisness standpoint how does this hurt the Franchise?

The fact that they got nothing from the overall first pick and he went back into the draft? I would suspect this would be a PR nightmare if anything.

 

[BeachBums]

But, once an NFL Organization and the player agree upon a contract and agree on the guaranteed $$, the organization is required to deposit the guaranteed $$ in a fund within a certain period of time. The problem is that the Raiders Organization does not have the funds or the revenue to deposit the amount of $$ Jamarcus is looking for within that required period of time. And like I said, he deserves the $$...

Man that's rough. The Raiders can't afford to sign a #1 overall draft pick? I didn't think NFL teams had such liquidity problems.

This is a landmark case is this is true.Here is an article from Jason Cole quoting sources about how the Raiders are doing everything they can to not pay the bonus money.

Link

I think it's crazy to think that the Raiders don't have the money to pay Russell. But, it sure seems like that is the case.

This is a real bad situation for Russell, and I think league rules prevent a trade from taking place. I feel sorry for the guy.

Their is no league rule preventing the trading of an unsigned draft pick but the rookie salary cap pool restrictions allotted to each team have pretty much all been dispersed so in effect you are correct. If the Raiders wanted to trade Russell their is no team in the league with any rookie salary cap for the 2007 season who could sign him. I would imagine that their is a way to finagle incentive bonues to work but Russell would lose out on ALL guarantees and that is the main thing his camp is fighting for.

If the rookie salary cap is so tight how could Cleveland squeeze in two first round picks? There's a huge difference between what a 1.01 rookie makes and what a 1.32 rookie makes. What about teams like the Bears with a low 2006 first round pick and Grossman? Anyone have a link on the rookie salary cap and who has what to spend? I can imagine a lot of teams would be very interested in Rusell if the Raiders can't make a deal and sign him.

 

[seatownfavorite]

This is not a likely scenario, but if I was the Oakland Raiders I would end negotiations. Russel is not going to play for the team this year and is going to cost the team a huge amount of money. You would be throwing all of that money away on a guy who is going to ride the bench and contribute zero to the team this year. At this point I think Culpepper is about even money with Russel of ever reaching top QB status in the NFL. What is the incentive to pay Russel?

Russell in this scenario, could say "F You, I'm going back to the college NFL draft in 2008". And Oakland gets ZERO. As a Raider hater, I hope this is what happens, I'd get alot of play out of it here locally.

How does this hurt the Raiders other than public image is my question. From a football and buisness standpoint how does this hurt the Franchise?

The fact that they got nothing from the overall first pick and he went back into the draft? I would suspect this would be a PR nightmare if anything.

Terrible PR but they would not be the first team to get a dud out of the #1. At least they wouldn't pay for the honor. Now if Russel reenters the draft and looks like the next great QB then they will have egg on their face. However if he turns into a Leaf, Meier, or one of the many other high pick flops then they just saved themselves $30Mil.

 

[Keith Lewis]

This is not a likely scenario, but if I was the Oakland Raiders I would end negotiations. Russel is not going to play for the team this year and is going to cost the team a huge amount of money. You would be throwing all of that money away on a guy who is going to ride the bench and contribute zero to the team this year. At this point I think Culpepper is about even money with Russel of ever reaching top QB status in the NFL. What is the incentive to pay Russel?

Russell in this scenario, could say "F You, I'm going back to the college NFL draft in 2008". And Oakland gets ZERO. As a Raider hater, I hope this is what happens, I'd get alot of play out of it here locally.

How does this hurt the Raiders other than public image is my question. From a football and buisness standpoint how does this hurt the Franchise?

The fact that they got nothing from the overall first pick and he went back into the draft? I would suspect this would be a PR nightmare if anything.

Terrible PR but they would not be the first team to get a dud out of the #1. At least they wouldn't pay for the honor. Now if Russel reenters the draft and looks like the next great QB then they will have egg on their face. However if he turns into a Leaf, Meier, or one of the many other high pick flops then they just saved themselves $30Mil.

I can't argue with that. I just don't know if the Raiders feel Russell will be a bust, if they did then they should have taken Calvin Johnson or Joe Thomas.

 

[massraider]

So is there a drop dead date for him to sign by or does his status just remain in limbo all year long?

They can sign him the day before the draft next year, as far as I know. I doubt it drags too much into the regular season, once the rosters are set, I think the Raiders will move quickly to sign him.Just speculation my part.

 

[bjabrad]

There has been chatter over the East Bay radio waves about the possibility of trading JeMarcus, it's just "chatter" so take it for what it's worth. There has also been "chatter" that the key sticking point is JeMarcus and the Raiders main issue with the contract has to do with guarenteed money, but more specifically guarenteed money with direct releationship to personal conduct, what he would get if he went Vick on the Raiders. To me it's disturbing and makes me wonder if JeMarcus is a person with low character. I know if I was living with my mommy in Alabama and had 30 million on the table, if I had nothing to worry about with my own character then i'd give in and sign off that I would uphold myself to high moral standards. As Randy Moss would say Something in Oakland smells fishy.

I always thought the Raiders REWARDED low character (rim shot!)

 

[bjabrad]

This is not a likely scenario, but if I was the Oakland Raiders I would end negotiations. Russel is not going to play for the team this year and is going to cost the team a huge amount of money. You would be throwing all of that money away on a guy who is going to ride the bench and contribute zero to the team this year. At this point I think Culpepper is about even money with Russel of ever reaching top QB status in the NFL. What is the incentive to pay Russel?

Russell in this scenario, could say "F You, I'm going back to the college NFL draft in 2008". And Oakland gets ZERO. As a Raider hater, I hope this is what happens, I'd get alot of play out of it here locally.

How does this hurt the Raiders other than public image is my question. From a football and buisness standpoint how does this hurt the Franchise?

The fact that they got nothing from the overall first pick and he went back into the draft? I would suspect this would be a PR nightmare if anything.

Terrible PR but they would not be the first team to get a dud out of the #1. At least they wouldn't pay for the honor. Now if Russel reenters the draft and looks like the next great QB then they will have egg on their face. However if he turns into a Leaf, Meier, or one of the many other high pick flops then they just saved themselves $30Mil.

I can't argue with that. I just don't know if the Raiders feel Russell will be a bust, if they did then they should have taken Calvin Johnson or Joe Thomas.

Agree, OAK was not the only one who considered Russell a can't miss talent (only other opinions were for that of Quinn due to the number of games he started in college, and Calvin Johnson due to his best of combine performance).If OAK knew they couldn't pay #1 guaranteed $$$ then why didn't they trade down in the draft or do what HOU did by passing on Bush and selecting Williams? Some may compare OAK to Carl Peterson of KC in terms of stubborness but in this case, public and professional opinion seems to be squarely against OAK for not dealing in good faith and trying to get a bargain with the #1 pick. OAK seems to be single handedly trying to shoulder all of the load for changing the way #1 draft picks are compensated and tryiing to start a new trend. But in this case, I think it's backfiring on them big time and I agree that they've got egg on their face if they can't get Russell practicing and learning this year. The PR hit would be HUGE if they become the failures in the NFL by losing their #1 pick of 2007 and get nothing for it. This would be the epitome of ineptness.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

http://raidertake.blogspot.com/

Friday, August 31, 2007

Sign Now—or Sayonara

JaMarcus Russell, it’s time to report to duty. The jig is up. Your bluff has been called. Sign now—or sayonara. My patience is exhausted.

I’ve heard all of the arguments from both sides. I’ve sifted through the wild rumors and speculation. I don’t claim to know every detail about the negotiations, but at least I don’t cloak my ignorance by consulting “unnamed (ie: uninformed) sources” and fabricating news, as we’ve seen in more than a few media outlets.

The most sensible report I’ve read lately comes from the Los Angeles Times:

“The negotiations between the Raiders and No. 1 pick JaMarcus Russell have been sporadic, with the sticking point being how much unrecoverable bonus money the Raiders are willing to commit to the former Louisiana State star. The team has offered a deal that includes $31 million in bonuses—almost $5 million more than last year's No. 1 pick Mario Williams received. The haggling is over the so-called skill-and-injury clause that protects guaranteed money under any scenario that leads to a player's release, such as injury, death, or simply poor performance. If the Raiders and Russell were unable to come to terms, he could ultimately sit out the season and re-enter the 2008 draft to be selected by another team. That's an unlikely scenario but not impossible.”

I’ve been surprised at how relatively docile the Raider Nation has been regarding this situation, myself included. Only now am I starting to foam at the mouth. It must have something to do with the calming effect of Daunte Culpepper’s arrival last month. Otherwise, I’d probably be needing a rabies shot right about now.

I’m serious about this: Sign now or good riddance.

Some will point out that I was a pre-draft agitator promoting our selection of Russell. Some will point out that I’ve been bleating for years now about our need to groom a franchise quarterback.

Fair enough. But I stand by those takes. I still think we need to groom a franchise quarterback, and I still think Russell is—or was—the right man for the job, if not for him staging such a prolonged holdout, which none of us could have foreseen.

I’m disgusted that it’s come to this. How is it that the Chargers and Broncos have managed to groom their young franchise quarterbacks while fielding playoff-caliber teams? Meanwhile, we were riding Aaron Brooks to our fourth-straight losing season and mistaking Andrew Walter for Matt Leinart.

We are very lucky that the football gods took pity on us and dispatched Daunte Culpepper to Napa Valley. I believe that Josh McCown is a solid addition, too, but he alone could not compensate for the absence of Russell. Culpepper, however, just might, at least for a year or three.

On that note, if Russell doesn’t sign between now and the start of the season, I think the Raiders should shut down the negotiations, save a ton of money, and redistribute the savings to solid free agents, future draft picks and gameday treats for fans.

Playing for the Oakland Raiders, in front of the Raider Nation, is an honor, one that will make JaMarcus Russell a very wealthy young man (and the highest-paid pick ever) if he takes our deal.

If that’s not enough for him, that’s enough for me to say stay out of our house. I’ve got a team to root for, and you’re not on it.

 

[BoltBacker]

I hope raider fans get what they want and flush the first pick in the draft down the toilet all the while watching Calvin Johnson highlights all season long. Did al davis even know he could negotiate and even sign a contract with the #1 pick before making the pick???? Suddenly HOU isn't looking so dumb after all.

 

[Obie Wan]

This is not a likely scenario, but if I was the Oakland Raiders I would end negotiations. Russel is not going to play for the team this year and is going to cost the team a huge amount of money. You would be throwing all of that money away on a guy who is going to ride the bench and contribute zero to the team this year. At this point I think Culpepper is about even money with Russel of ever reaching top QB status in the NFL. What is the incentive to pay Russel?

Russell in this scenario, could say "F You, I'm going back to the college NFL draft in 2008". And Oakland gets ZERO. As a Raider hater, I hope this is what happens, I'd get alot of play out of it here locally.

How does this hurt the Raiders other than public image is my question. From a football and buisness standpoint how does this hurt the Franchise?

The fact that they got nothing from the overall first pick and he went back into the draft? I would suspect this would be a PR nightmare if anything.

Terrible PR but they would not be the first team to get a dud out of the #1. At least they wouldn't pay for the honor. Now if Russel reenters the draft and looks like the next great QB then they will have egg on their face. However if he turns into a Leaf, Meier, or one of the many other high pick flops then they just saved themselves $30Mil.

I can't argue with that. I just don't know if the Raiders feel Russell will be a bust, if they did then they should have taken Calvin Johnson or Joe Thomas.

Agree, OAK was not the only one who considered Russell a can't miss talent (only other opinions were for that of Quinn due to the number of games he started in college, and Calvin Johnson due to his best of combine performance).If OAK knew they couldn't pay #1 guaranteed $$$ then why didn't they trade down in the draft or do what HOU did by passing on Bush and selecting Williams? Some may compare OAK to Carl Peterson of KC in terms of stubborness but in this case, public and professional opinion seems to be squarely against OAK for not dealing in good faith and trying to get a bargain with the #1 pick. OAK seems to be single handedly trying to shoulder all of the load for changing the way #1 draft picks are compensated and tryiing to start a new trend. But in this case, I think it's backfiring on them big time and I agree that they've got egg on their face if they can't get Russell practicing and learning this year. The PR hit would be HUGE if they become the failures in the NFL by losing their #1 pick of 2007 and get nothing for it. This would be the epitome of ineptness.

Raiders are incompetent for making the pick at #1 without having the player already under contract.absolutely stupid

 

[Bracie Smathers]

But, once an NFL Organization and the player agree upon a contract and agree on the guaranteed $$, the organization is required to deposit the guaranteed $$ in a fund within a certain period of time. The problem is that the Raiders Organization does not have the funds or the revenue to deposit the amount of $$ Jamarcus is looking for within that required period of time. And like I said, he deserves the $$...

Man that's rough. The Raiders can't afford to sign a #1 overall draft pick? I didn't think NFL teams had such liquidity problems.

This is a landmark case is this is true.Here is an article from Jason Cole quoting sources about how the Raiders are doing everything they can to not pay the bonus money.

Link

I think it's crazy to think that the Raiders don't have the money to pay Russell. But, it sure seems like that is the case.

This is a real bad situation for Russell, and I think league rules prevent a trade from taking place. I feel sorry for the guy.

Their is no league rule preventing the trading of an unsigned draft pick but the rookie salary cap pool restrictions allotted to each team have pretty much all been dispersed so in effect you are correct. If the Raiders wanted to trade Russell their is no team in the league with any rookie salary cap for the 2007 season who could sign him. I would imagine that their is a way to finagle incentive bonues to work but Russell would lose out on ALL guarantees and that is the main thing his camp is fighting for.

If the rookie salary cap is so tight how could Cleveland squeeze in two first round picks? There's a huge difference between what a 1.01 rookie makes and what a 1.32 rookie makes. What about teams like the Bears with a low 2006 first round pick and Grossman? Anyone have a link on the rookie salary cap and who has what to spend? I can imagine a lot of teams would be very interested in Rusell if the Raiders can't make a deal and sign him.

The NFL awards each team a rookie salary cap that they get BEFORE the draft so the Browns got a rookie pool based off of the previous year's third pick and got a bargain on the signing bonus of Joe Thomas who signed for less than the slotting alignment of the previous third pick, QB Vince Young. The Browns made that deal with a lower signing bonus but with easy to reach incentive bonuses down the line because they knew they had to squeeze Quinn in as well. You know BQ held out but when he finally signed the Browns gave him a non-standard five year deal instead of the traditional six year deal that most first round draft picks get awarded. Basically his bonus is sprad over five instead of six years and he also got very easy to reach incentive bonuses but his base salary is very reasonable. Considering the difficulties that Oakland is having trying to sign Russell and how well Quinn has played to date it looks like Cleveland got a heck of a bargain.

 

[RenegadeGM]

This is not a likely scenario, but if I was the Oakland Raiders I would end negotiations. Russel is not going to play for the team this year and is going to cost the team a huge amount of money. You would be throwing all of that money away on a guy who is going to ride the bench and contribute zero to the team this year. At this point I think Culpepper is about even money with Russel of ever reaching top QB status in the NFL. What is the incentive to pay Russel?

Russell in this scenario, could say "F You, I'm going back to the college NFL draft in 2008". And Oakland gets ZERO. As a Raider hater, I hope this is what happens, I'd get alot of play out of it here locally.

Would never happen, but could you imagine Russell going back into the draft and the Raiders paicking him AGAIN?And Davis replies, "No Jamarcus, F YOU..."

 

[bjabrad]

http://raidertake.blogspot.com/

Friday, August 31, 2007

Sign Now—or Sayonara

JaMarcus Russell, it’s time to report to duty. The jig is up. Your bluff has been called. Sign now—or sayonara. My patience is exhausted.

I’ve heard all of the arguments from both sides. I’ve sifted through the wild rumors and speculation. I don’t claim to know every detail about the negotiations, but at least I don’t cloak my ignorance by consulting “unnamed (ie: uninformed) sources” and fabricating news, as we’ve seen in more than a few media outlets.

The most sensible report I’ve read lately comes from the Los Angeles Times:

“The negotiations between the Raiders and No. 1 pick JaMarcus Russell have been sporadic, with the sticking point being how much unrecoverable bonus money the Raiders are willing to commit to the former Louisiana State star. The team has offered a deal that includes $31 million in bonuses—almost $5 million more than last year's No. 1 pick Mario Williams received. The haggling is over the so-called skill-and-injury clause that protects guaranteed money under any scenario that leads to a player's release, such as injury, death, or simply poor performance. If the Raiders and Russell were unable to come to terms, he could ultimately sit out the season and re-enter the 2008 draft to be selected by another team. That's an unlikely scenario but not impossible.”

I’ve been surprised at how relatively docile the Raider Nation has been regarding this situation, myself included. Only now am I starting to foam at the mouth. It must have something to do with the calming effect of Daunte Culpepper’s arrival last month. Otherwise, I’d probably be needing a rabies shot right about now.

I’m serious about this: Sign now or good riddance.

Some will point out that I was a pre-draft agitator promoting our selection of Russell. Some will point out that I’ve been bleating for years now about our need to groom a franchise quarterback.

Fair enough. But I stand by those takes. I still think we need to groom a franchise quarterback, and I still think Russell is—or was—the right man for the job, if not for him staging such a prolonged holdout, which none of us could have foreseen.

I’m disgusted that it’s come to this. How is it that the Chargers and Broncos have managed to groom their young franchise quarterbacks while fielding playoff-caliber teams? Meanwhile, we were riding Aaron Brooks to our fourth-straight losing season and mistaking Andrew Walter for Matt Leinart.

We are very lucky that the football gods took pity on us and dispatched Daunte Culpepper to Napa Valley. I believe that Josh McCown is a solid addition, too, but he alone could not compensate for the absence of Russell. Culpepper, however, just might, at least for a year or three.

On that note, if Russell doesn’t sign between now and the start of the season, I think the Raiders should shut down the negotiations, save a ton of money, and redistribute the savings to solid free agents, future draft picks and gameday treats for fans.

Playing for the Oakland Raiders, in front of the Raider Nation, is an honor, one that will make JaMarcus Russell a very wealthy young man (and the highest-paid pick ever) if he takes our deal.

If that’s not enough for him, that’s enough for me to say stay out of our house. I’ve got a team to root for, and you’re not on it.

It sounds like you fully understand how rare a top notch QB and how many teams are competing for them as well as how often the opportunity comes up to be able to select one as the first pick. So IF there is every reason to believe that Jam Russell is THE guy that only comes around every lunar eclipse then how much over market value would you be willing to pay him so that you can start to develope the Oakland Raiders QB of the future? Isn't $5 mil extra a small price to pay when looking at the big picture or would you rather put your teams future on hold for a year and HOPE that you have a high enough draft slot next year to get a decent QB?

 

[BoltBacker]

"Raiders released DE Quentin Moses.Impact: Moss was the first pick of the third round and was seeing reps as the Raiders' starting DE early in camp, but lost the job to converted guard Tommy Kelly. He lost the backup job to fifth-rounder Jay Richardson."

... so it's very possible the raiders get absolutely NOTHING, ZERO from picks 1.01 and 3.01 in the draft in 2007. That would have to be unprecedented. Congratulations al davis..... just when rock bottom seemed as low as you can go.

 

[King_Kelly]

Craig Erickson was drafted twice. He was drafted in the 5th round in 1991 by the Eagles and in the 4th round in 1992 by the Bucs. I think the money situation may be different for Russell.

 

[DeadStroke]

But, once an NFL Organization and the player agree upon a contract and agree on the guaranteed $$, the organization is required to deposit the guaranteed $$ in a fund within a certain period of time. The problem is that the Raiders Organization does not have the funds or the revenue to deposit the amount of $$ Jamarcus is looking for within that required period of time. And like I said, he deserves the $$...

Man that's rough. The Raiders can't afford to sign a #1 overall draft pick? I didn't think NFL teams had such liquidity problems.

This is a landmark case is this is true.Here is an article from Jason Cole quoting sources about how the Raiders are doing everything they can to not pay the bonus money.

Link

I think it's crazy to think that the Raiders don't have the money to pay Russell. But, it sure seems like that is the case.

This is a real bad situation for Russell, and I think league rules prevent a trade from taking place. I feel sorry for the guy.

Their is no league rule preventing the trading of an unsigned draft pick but the rookie salary cap pool restrictions allotted to each team have pretty much all been dispersed so in effect you are correct. If the Raiders wanted to trade Russell their is no team in the league with any rookie salary cap for the 2007 season who could sign him. I would imagine that their is a way to finagle incentive bonues to work but Russell would lose out on ALL guarantees and that is the main thing his camp is fighting for.

If the rookie salary cap is so tight how could Cleveland squeeze in two first round picks? There's a huge difference between what a 1.01 rookie makes and what a 1.32 rookie makes. What about teams like the Bears with a low 2006 first round pick and Grossman? Anyone have a link on the rookie salary cap and who has what to spend? I can imagine a lot of teams would be very interested in Rusell if the Raiders can't make a deal and sign him.

The NFL awards each team a rookie salary cap that they get BEFORE the draft so the Browns got a rookie pool based off of the previous year's third pick and got a bargain on the signing bonus of Joe Thomas who signed for less than the slotting alignment of the previous third pick, QB Vince Young. The Browns made that deal with a lower signing bonus but with easy to reach incentive bonuses down the line because they knew they had to squeeze Quinn in as well. You know BQ held out but when he finally signed the Browns gave him a non-standard five year deal instead of the traditional six year deal that most first round draft picks get awarded. Basically his bonus is sprad over five instead of six years and he also got very easy to reach incentive bonuses but his base salary is very reasonable. Considering the difficulties that Oakland is having trying to sign Russell and how well Quinn has played to date it looks like Cleveland got a heck of a bargain.

That's incorrect, they calculate the "Rookie Cap" immediately AFTER the draft. They got an allocation percent for the #3 pick and the #22 or whenever Quinn was drafted. The new CBA also limits the number of years that a rookie draft pick can sign. Picks 1-15 can sign up to a 6 year contract (no more 7 year deals), picks 16-32 can only sign up to a 5 year contract (you can look it up, no picks after 16 signed 6 year contracts), 2nd round through 7th round picks can only sign up to a 4 year contract. Some teams prefer going 4 years to avoid Restricted Free Agency, others still do 3 years deals on the 3rd rounders and lower, while they do 4 year deals on 2nd rounders.Also incorrect in a post above is that the trading deadline for trading unsigned rookie draft picks was August 10th of this year, so they couldn't trade Russell even if they wanted to. But like the poster correctly pointed out, there would not be a team that would have the necessary Rookie Pool Cap space available to sign Russell, so the point is moot anyways.

 

[Beerguzzler]

Russell will be signed 1 day before the start of the season

 

[Bracie Smathers]

But, once an NFL Organization and the player agree upon a contract and agree on the guaranteed $$, the organization is required to deposit the guaranteed $$ in a fund within a certain period of time. The problem is that the Raiders Organization does not have the funds or the revenue to deposit the amount of $$ Jamarcus is looking for within that required period of time. And like I said, he deserves the $$...

Man that's rough. The Raiders can't afford to sign a #1 overall draft pick? I didn't think NFL teams had such liquidity problems.

This is a landmark case is this is true.Here is an article from Jason Cole quoting sources about how the Raiders are doing everything they can to not pay the bonus money.

Link

I think it's crazy to think that the Raiders don't have the money to pay Russell. But, it sure seems like that is the case.

This is a real bad situation for Russell, and I think league rules prevent a trade from taking place. I feel sorry for the guy.

Their is no league rule preventing the trading of an unsigned draft pick but the rookie salary cap pool restrictions allotted to each team have pretty much all been dispersed so in effect you are correct. If the Raiders wanted to trade Russell their is no team in the league with any rookie salary cap for the 2007 season who could sign him. I would imagine that their is a way to finagle incentive bonues to work but Russell would lose out on ALL guarantees and that is the main thing his camp is fighting for.

If the rookie salary cap is so tight how could Cleveland squeeze in two first round picks? There's a huge difference between what a 1.01 rookie makes and what a 1.32 rookie makes. What about teams like the Bears with a low 2006 first round pick and Grossman? Anyone have a link on the rookie salary cap and who has what to spend? I can imagine a lot of teams would be very interested in Rusell if the Raiders can't make a deal and sign him.

The NFL awards each team a rookie salary cap that they get BEFORE the draft so the Browns got a rookie pool based off of the previous year's third pick and got a bargain on the signing bonus of Joe Thomas who signed for less than the slotting alignment of the previous third pick, QB Vince Young. The Browns made that deal with a lower signing bonus but with easy to reach incentive bonuses down the line because they knew they had to squeeze Quinn in as well. You know BQ held out but when he finally signed the Browns gave him a non-standard five year deal instead of the traditional six year deal that most first round draft picks get awarded. Basically his bonus is sprad over five instead of six years and he also got very easy to reach incentive bonuses but his base salary is very reasonable. Considering the difficulties that Oakland is having trying to sign Russell and how well Quinn has played to date it looks like Cleveland got a heck of a bargain.

That's incorrect, they calculate the "Rookie Cap" immediately AFTER the draft. They got an allocation percent for the #3 pick and the #22 or whenever Quinn was drafted. The new CBA also limits the number of years that a rookie draft pick can sign. Picks 1-15 can sign up to a 6 year contract (no more 7 year deals), picks 16-32 can only sign up to a 5 year contract (you can look it up, no picks after 16 signed 6 year contracts), 2nd round through 7th round picks can only sign up to a 4 year contract. Some teams prefer going 4 years to avoid Restricted Free Agency, others still do 3 years deals on the 3rd rounders and lower, while they do 4 year deals on 2nd rounders.Also incorrect in a post above is that the trading deadline for trading unsigned rookie draft picks was August 10th of this year, so they couldn't trade Russell even if they wanted to. But like the poster correctly pointed out, there would not be a team that would have the necessary Rookie Pool Cap space available to sign Russell, so the point is moot anyways.

Busted! I was posting during a break in a draft and was too lazy to look up spefics of the contract talk but figured someone in the know would chime in. The blurb reportedly mentioned by Savage of the Russell camp asking for fair market value and the Raiders as 'unable' rather than 'unwilling' to pay rings true. Jason Cole reported a sticking point about guarantees which was what the Raiders were saying. I think the Riaders lack the funds. If they lack the trading deadline has passed and no one has rookie funds so they can't trade JaMarcus.

Their are only two outcomes.

JaMarcus signs for less than fair market value or he doesn't and goes back into next year's draft but that seems like a bitter way to start developing a long term franchise quarterback where he is given a lowball take-it-or-leave-it offer.

If he's locked in for six years then their is a tipping point where at some point it will make more sense for him to sit it out and go to next year's draft. If he feels the Raiders haven't been fair then why would he want to sign with them? Seems like a horrible situation with Davis not willing to pay fair market value so JaMarcus would have to face that every year if the Raiders continue to lowball draftees.

I'm suprised this is not getting more press coverage. If their was no Vick distraction this would be front page NFL news. Also the signing of Culpepper and the way he has played has helped put this on the back burner.

If Al Davis had no intention of paying from the start he should never have drafted Russell. He should have taken Calvin Johnson or traded down and gotten REASONABLE compensation. If Raider fans want to demonize anyone they need look no further than Wierd Al Davis

 

[Kiddnets]

Russel has to sign IMO - unless he has a ton of endorsements already - does he really want to be broke all year? He goes back in the draft and there is no way he goes #1 - probably slips out of the top 5 after sitting out a yr and all the baggage to sign him. Oak is in no hurry to sign him now since he will not contribute in the least this year.

So sign now - get paid and start your career

or

hold out - lose a year - get drafted a few spots lower - get a lower contract than you are being offered now -

if he has a fair offer on the table he should take it. Not worth the down side.

 

[massraider]

But, once an NFL Organization and the player agree upon a contract and agree on the guaranteed $$, the organization is required to deposit the guaranteed $$ in a fund within a certain period of time. The problem is that the Raiders Organization does not have the funds or the revenue to deposit the amount of $$ Jamarcus is looking for within that required period of time. And like I said, he deserves the $$...

Man that's rough. The Raiders can't afford to sign a #1 overall draft pick? I didn't think NFL teams had such liquidity problems.

This is a landmark case is this is true.Here is an article from Jason Cole quoting sources about how the Raiders are doing everything they can to not pay the bonus money.

Link

I think it's crazy to think that the Raiders don't have the money to pay Russell. But, it sure seems like that is the case.

This is a real bad situation for Russell, and I think league rules prevent a trade from taking place. I feel sorry for the guy.

Their is no league rule preventing the trading of an unsigned draft pick but the rookie salary cap pool restrictions allotted to each team have pretty much all been dispersed so in effect you are correct. If the Raiders wanted to trade Russell their is no team in the league with any rookie salary cap for the 2007 season who could sign him. I would imagine that their is a way to finagle incentive bonues to work but Russell would lose out on ALL guarantees and that is the main thing his camp is fighting for.

If the rookie salary cap is so tight how could Cleveland squeeze in two first round picks? There's a huge difference between what a 1.01 rookie makes and what a 1.32 rookie makes. What about teams like the Bears with a low 2006 first round pick and Grossman? Anyone have a link on the rookie salary cap and who has what to spend? I can imagine a lot of teams would be very interested in Rusell if the Raiders can't make a deal and sign him.

The NFL awards each team a rookie salary cap that they get BEFORE the draft so the Browns got a rookie pool based off of the previous year's third pick and got a bargain on the signing bonus of Joe Thomas who signed for less than the slotting alignment of the previous third pick, QB Vince Young. The Browns made that deal with a lower signing bonus but with easy to reach incentive bonuses down the line because they knew they had to squeeze Quinn in as well. You know BQ held out but when he finally signed the Browns gave him a non-standard five year deal instead of the traditional six year deal that most first round draft picks get awarded. Basically his bonus is sprad over five instead of six years and he also got very easy to reach incentive bonuses but his base salary is very reasonable. Considering the difficulties that Oakland is having trying to sign Russell and how well Quinn has played to date it looks like Cleveland got a heck of a bargain.

That's incorrect, they calculate the "Rookie Cap" immediately AFTER the draft. They got an allocation percent for the #3 pick and the #22 or whenever Quinn was drafted. The new CBA also limits the number of years that a rookie draft pick can sign. Picks 1-15 can sign up to a 6 year contract (no more 7 year deals), picks 16-32 can only sign up to a 5 year contract (you can look it up, no picks after 16 signed 6 year contracts), 2nd round through 7th round picks can only sign up to a 4 year contract. Some teams prefer going 4 years to avoid Restricted Free Agency, others still do 3 years deals on the 3rd rounders and lower, while they do 4 year deals on 2nd rounders.Also incorrect in a post above is that the trading deadline for trading unsigned rookie draft picks was August 10th of this year, so they couldn't trade Russell even if they wanted to. But like the poster correctly pointed out, there would not be a team that would have the necessary Rookie Pool Cap space available to sign Russell, so the point is moot anyways.

Busted! I was posting during a break in a draft and was too lazy to look up spefics of the contract talk but figured someone in the know would chime in. The blurb reportedly mentioned by Savage of the Russell camp asking for fair market value and the Raiders as 'unable' rather than 'unwilling' to pay rings true. Jason Cole reported a sticking point about guarantees which was what the Raiders were saying. I think the Riaders lack the funds. If they lack the trading deadline has passed and no one has rookie funds so they can't trade JaMarcus.

Their are only two outcomes.

JaMarcus signs for less than fair market value or he doesn't and goes back into next year's draft but that seems like a bitter way to start developing a long term franchise quarterback where he is given a lowball take-it-or-leave-it offer.

If he's locked in for six years then their is a tipping point where at some point it will make more sense for him to sit it out and go to next year's draft. If he feels the Raiders haven't been fair then why would he want to sign with them? Seems like a horrible situation with Davis not willing to pay fair market value so JaMarcus would have to face that every year if the Raiders continue to lowball draftees.

I'm suprised this is not getting more press coverage. If their was no Vick distraction this would be front page NFL news. Also the signing of Culpepper and the way he has played has helped put this on the back burner.

If Al Davis had no intention of paying from the start he should never have drafted Russell. He should have taken Calvin Johnson or traded down and gotten REASONABLE compensation. If Raider fans want to demonize anyone they need look no further than Wierd Al Davis