Ran a 10k in June (4 Viewers)

[tri-man 47]

prosopis - ...the smell of the beer or the flowering citrus trees? I presume the latter, but you are a FBG. Sounds appealing, though!!

2Young - I'm on the gear-up-the-mileage training program so that I'm ready to rock the 1/2-marathon with you (and others) in late April ...I want to give a good showing so you boys will have confidence in their teammate as we head toward the 100K trail relay in September. I have limited access to hills, so figured I'd make it up with extra distance.

Workhorse - sweet!!!

 

[2Young2BBald]

2Young - I'm on the gear-up-the-mileage training program so that I'm ready to rock the 1/2-marathon with you (and others) in late April ...I want to give a good showing so you boys will have confidence in their teammate as we head toward the 100K trail relay in September. I have limited access to hills, so figured I'd make it up with extra distance.

Mission Accomplished! I feel like a slack ###.BTW, did you catch the special award for the Trail 1/2? 1st place men & women over 50 in the full and the 1/2 get their name engraved on a memorial trophy that puts The Woody to shame.

 

[wraith5]

Kind of crappy weather here, too, this morning (45 degrees and light rain/drizzle throughout), and coming off of nine solid training days, but got out this morning for a 16 mile run through the city. Legs kind of sore even at the start, so it was a bit of a slog throughout, but all in all ...a good training run.

I did 12 in the same crappy weather this morning. Given that I did my 5k run yesterday, and I haven't run 2 days in a row in... well years, it should have been no surprise that my legs felt about as great as the weather. First 4 hurt, second 4 were fine, last 4 were awful. Planning an hour on the bike & some weight lifting for tomorrow. Workhorse - great job!!

 

[quartz]

First time poster. Just ran my first 8K. 40 degrees and blustery. Was hopinig for 42:00 and did 41:19. Next week the Shamrock Shuffle 8K.

 

[gruecd]

Thought I was fully recovered from my cold, but I guess not. Legs felt sluggish even before I started my 20, and I was dragging ### on the last 2-3 miles of the first 10-mile loop. Decided to bail and get some rest. What's weird is that I feel OK otherwise; I guess my body just hasn't caught up yet.

quartz - to the thread. I'm guessing you're from the Chicagoland area? Doing the RNR Half Marathon in August?

 

[The_Man]

First time poster. Just ran my first 8K. 40 degrees and blustery. Was hopinig for 42:00 and did 41:19. Next week the Shamrock Shuffle 8K.

Welcome! And nice run.I slogged through my first-ever 12-mile run yesterday in survival mode. Temp in the upper 40s, torrential rain, and high winds. Usually on my long runs, my legs really loosen up around the 3-mile mark and it's pretty easy for me to achieve a negative split since I take it slow to start. But I wore shorts yesterday (air temp was warmer than it's been and I didn't want to deal with soaking wet pants weighing me down) which turned out to be a bad idea. My cold and wet legs never loosened up, and in fact became numb and kind of increasingly stiff throughout the run. By the end it felt like I was tottering along on two blocks of driftwood.I had hoped to do a 3/1 run - 9 miles at long run pace and then the last 3 at my desired HM pace of 8:00. But after 9 miles my legs had just nothing and I never picked up the pace. Interesting note -- did the first 3 at 8:42 pace, the next 6 at 8:41 and the last 3 at 8:40. I wasn't trying for any particular time or even looking at my watch -- it just seems that's my natural pace for running without pushing myself.After about 10 miles, I was facing an uphill mile and started to think about taking a walk break. That's when I realized that despite how heavy my legs felt, they weren't hurting at all, and I wasn't even breathing hard. I could see stopping because of pain and/or exhaustion but "tired" didn't seem like a legit excuse, so I managed to make it all the way in.Still hoping for 1:45:00 this Saturday but am starting to think that might be a little ambitious.

 

[culdeus]

Jesus, if you have a death wish right now come do a marathon in Dallas. Dudes dropping left and right now. I think it has to be weather related. Both of these last two came on days when it was just the right mix of steamy and unseasonably hot.

 

[Sand]

First time poster. Just ran my first 8K. 40 degrees and blustery. Was hopinig for 42:00 and did 41:19. Next week the Shamrock Shuffle 8K.

Welcome!Just curious - are there a plethora of 8k runs there or are you picking those out on purpose? I don't think I have seen an 8k in my part of the world.---On my end I have had a very light week - my shoulder is giving me problems, and had to cut one swim short and cancel yesterday's. Well, I would have canned yesterday's anyway due to sickness. I would have done stuff anyway but it was bad enough I wasn't breathing well enough to exercise (miserable). I got back on the horse today and ran a good 6.5 miles in 8:10/mile. Felt pretty good doing it. Next week will be a run heavy week as I head over to visit family. No bike, no pool, so run it will be.Just did my taxes, and my return is bigger than I had hoped (woohoo!). Nashbar is having a good sale on stuff, including some Vittoria race tires (even with yellow sidewalls, which matches my bike) for way less than I have ever seen them. I think I may try some road cycling shoes, as well (I have been wearing mountain shoes for everything up through now).

 

[gruecd]

After about 10 miles, I was facing an uphill mile and started to think about taking a walk break. That's when I realized that despite how heavy my legs felt, they weren't hurting at all, and I wasn't even breathing hard. I could see stopping because of pain and/or exhaustion but "tired" didn't seem like a legit excuse, so I managed to make it all the way in.

Hey, The_Man. Way to HTFU, and thanks for the inspiration. Despite my better judgment, I went back out this afternoon and ran another 10+ miles, giving me 20 for the day. Here's my week in review:M: 6.5 miles at 7:43 pace (included 6 x 100M strides)

T: Rest

W: 12 @ 7:49 pace

T: 12 @ 7:49 pace (included 6 hill repeats)

F: 5 recovery @ 8:14 pace

S: 5 @ 7:41 pace

S: 10.02 @ 8:09 pace (AM)

10.07 @ 7:57 pace (PM)

Total: 60.59 miles

 

[Juxtatarot]

I would like to get some of your opinions on running at less than goal race pace.

This is something I've never really done before. I usually run about three times a week (sometimes 2) but always try to make those runs challenging. Recently, however, I've decided to increase my run frequency hoping for improved performance -- maybe up to 5 times a week. In doing this the idea is to add some "recovery runs" and to slow some of the long runs down. I've read some experts suggest running long runs at least 45 seconds/mile slower. I tried this today during a 14 mile run and failed. Practically every time I checked my Garmin, I was running too fast. Then I would slow down for a little but not for long. I ended up averaging only about 5 seconds/mile slower.

I suppose next time I can absolutely force myself to run slower. I could also try this out on a treadmill to get use to the pace. But, I have to admit, I'm skeptical on the whole thing. It just seems like a wasted run.

I guess what I'm curious about is this: How often to you run slower and by how much? And, do you really think this has helped?

 

[gruecd]

I would like to get some of your opinions on running at less than goal race pace.This is something I've never really done before. I usually run about three times a week (sometimes 2) but always try to make those runs challenging. Recently, however, I've decided to increase my run frequency hoping for improved performance -- maybe up to 5 times a week. In doing this the idea is to add some "recovery runs" and to slow some of the long runs down. I've read some experts suggest running long runs at least 45 seconds/mile slower. I tried this today during a 14 mile run and failed. Practically every time I checked my Garmin, I was running too fast. Then I would slow down for a little but not for long. I ended up averaging only about 5 seconds/mile slower.I suppose next time I can absolutely force myself to run slower. I could also try this out on a treadmill to get use to the pace. But, I have to admit, I'm skeptical on the whole thing. It just seems like a wasted run. I guess what I'm curious about is this: How often to you run slower and by how much? And, do you really think this has helped?

Dude, I run a lot of miles, and unless I'm specifically doing some kind of specific speed workout, I seldom come anywhere close to race pace during the week. For example, my goal marathon pace for Boston is somewhere around 7:15 pace, and most of my long runs are somewhere between 7:45-8:00 pace. My recovery runs are usually slower than that. You need to remember that each run has a purpose; the purpose of the long run is to build endurance, the purpose of speedwork is to build speed, and the purpose of recovery runs is, well, to recover. I've got a friend who's a sub-3 marathoner, and she does her recovery runs at 9-minute pace or slower. You should do your recovery runs at an embarrassingly slow pace. It takes some getting used to, but it's absolutely essential if you're going to try increasing your mileage. Otherwise, it's an injury waiting to happen. Trust me.

 

[2Young2BBald]

completely hammered after todays St Pat's 5K and subsequent post race party watching the parade. Crazy that 5,000+ folks showed up to run on a miserably cold & rainy day (might have been the free beer). There was no where to run with that many people and the 1st mile took us about 10 minutes. Hustled on the back of the out and back for a 24:02. Slower than I expected, but fun none the less.

 

[El Floppo]

My friend who got me doing tris all those years ago signed me up for one of those 10k mud-run things in October.

 

[tri-man 47]

I would like to get some of your opinions on running at less than goal race pace.

This is something I've never really done before. I usually run about three times a week (sometimes 2) but always try to make those runs challenging. Recently, however, I've decided to increase my run frequency hoping for improved performance -- maybe up to 5 times a week. In doing this the idea is to add some "recovery runs" and to slow some of the long runs down. I've read some experts suggest running long runs at least 45 seconds/mile slower. I tried this today during a 14 mile run and failed. Practically every time I checked my Garmin, I was running too fast. Then I would slow down for a little but not for long. I ended up averaging only about 5 seconds/mile slower.

I suppose next time I can absolutely force myself to run slower. I could also try this out on a treadmill to get use to the pace. But, I have to admit, I'm skeptical on the whole thing. It just seems like a wasted run.

I guess what I'm curious about is this: How often to you run slower and by how much? And, do you really think this has helped?

Dude, I run a lot of miles, and unless I'm specifically doing some kind of specific speed workout, I seldom come anywhere close to race pace during the week. For example, my goal marathon pace for Boston is somewhere around 7:15 pace, and most of my long runs are somewhere between 7:45-8:00 pace. My recovery runs are usually slower than that. You need to remember that each run has a purpose; the purpose of the long run is to build endurance, the purpose of speedwork is to build speed, and the purpose of recovery runs is, well, to recover. I've got a friend who's a sub-3 marathoner, and she does her recovery runs at 9-minute pace or slower. You should do your recovery runs at an embarrassingly slow pace. It takes some getting used to, but it's absolutely essential if you're going to try increasing your mileage. Otherwise, it's an injury waiting to happen. Trust me.

Jux - gruecd is right. It's a weird/hard feeling to run slow, but on recovery days, it's the right thing. My recommendation - focus on your breathing. On my slow runs, I breath on a different cadence (instead of every second step, I breath every third), which tells me that that run is focused on controlled breathing and true aerobic training - not pace; not tempo. Bottom line, the key muscle that you're developing is your heart.quartz --- welcome, also! Was the 8K the Shamrock Shuffle? Maybe we'll hook up in a Chicago race, like the Chicago R&R 1/2-marathon (four of us met last year).

---

Recovery day today ...30 minutes on the indoor bike; then later 4 miles easy running.

 

[wraith5]

I would like to get some of your opinions on running at less than goal race pace.

This is something I've never really done before. I usually run about three times a week (sometimes 2) but always try to make those runs challenging. Recently, however, I've decided to increase my run frequency hoping for improved performance -- maybe up to 5 times a week. In doing this the idea is to add some "recovery runs" and to slow some of the long runs down. I've read some experts suggest running long runs at least 45 seconds/mile slower.

I strongly urge you to check this out: FIRST training It seems tailor made for what you're talking about:

3 very specific and targeted runs each week (speed work, tempo work, distance work)

2-3 "active recovery" cross-training days (biking, rowing, swimming, etc.). For me, this makes more sense than additional "slow" runs that are stressing the exact same muscles. Guys like gruecd love running and can handle that mileage - I just can't (and like a little variety as I work towards my first triathlon)

I'm not near as fast as a lot of guys here, so take that into consideration with my experience, but I semi-followed the FIRST program in the fall (I did not do most of the cross-training - only the 3 runs) and I took 12 minutes off my marathon PR (from 2002!) in less-than-ideal (ie windy) conditions. This year I'm doing it right and I anticipate several PRs on the horizon.

 

[The_Man]

4 miles at race pace this a.m. (8:00). Went pretty well, in that my legs felt good after Saturday's 12 miles and that I was still pretty fresh at the end of the run. Going to be a long week waiting for Saturday.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I heard about this on the radio this morning:

link

Running Marathons May Lead to Heart Complications, Study Finds

March 13 (Bloomberg) -- Marathon runners are at risk for high blood pressure and heart complications, as endurance training can stress the cardiovascular system, researchers said.

Marathon runners had increased blood pressure and stiffness in the aorta, the major artery to the heart, researchers said in a study to be presented on March 15 at the American College of Cardiology meeting in Atlanta. Findings from the research were released today.

While moderate exercise has a protective effect and people who don’t exercise have a higher risk of developing heart- related problems, exercising too much can do harm, said Despina Kardara, a researcher from the Athens Medical School and Hippokration Hospital in Athens and lead author of the report.

“The cardiovascular system is like a sports car engine,” said Kardara in a statement released with the study. ”If you do not use it, it will decay, but if you run it too fast for too long, you might burn out.”

The runners in the study trained about 10 to 19 hours a week, for periods ranging from about 2 to 20 years, the researchers said. Standard marathons mean running 26.2 miles (42 kilometers) from start to finish.

The scientists used an evaluation index called pulse wave velocity that measures stiffness in the aorta. The test showed marathon runners had a higher wave velocity, indicating rigid artery walls. Stiffness in the aorta causes high blood pressure, and can be an indicator of cardiovascular disease and predictor of heart attack and related death, Kardara said.

Control Group

The scientists evaluated blood pressure levels and flexibility of the arteries in 49 people who ran marathons, and in 46 people -- similar in age, height and cardiovascular risk factors -- who weren’t endurance athletes, according to the research. The runners had higher blood pressure and reduced heart rate, and those with more-intense exercise regimens showed more stiffness in the arteries, according to the study. Only seven of the runners were women.

”This is important because stiff arteries lead to high blood pressure and can impair the heart, keeping it from performing properly,” Kardara said.

The research was supported by Hippokration Hospital, the Athens Medical School and the Athens Classic Marathon Organizing Committee.

________________________________________________________________________________

______________________

I'm not sure what to think about this. Anyway, averaging 10-19 hours of running a week is a lot and more than I'll ever do.

 

[culdeus]

That's just another study in what will likely turn the worm towards shorter, more intense interval based workouts as base training. It's inevitable now.

And the guy that died yesterday in the Dallas one. 32 years old.

 

[wraith5]

That's just another study in what will likely turn the worm towards shorter, more intense interval based workouts as base training. It's inevitable now.And the guy that died yesterday in the Dallas one. 32 years old.

32 with a wife and 2 little kids, apparently. The guy was a former college athlete running a 1/2 marathon - I just can't quite wrap my head around that (that he died from it, I mean). Regarding the study, those runners have to be putting up 60+ miles a week easy. Probably much more than that. So if their recommendation is "don't run 3000+ miles/year," I can live with that.

 

[wraith5]

I am now officially signed up for my first triathlon.

Twin Lakes Triathlon, Palatine, IL

June 27, 2010

700 Meter Swim, 14 Mile Bike, 4.5 Mile Run

 

[2Young2BBald]

That's just another study in what will likely turn the worm towards shorter, more intense interval based workouts as base training. It's inevitable now.And the guy that died yesterday in the Dallas one. 32 years old.

32 with a wife and 2 little kids, apparently. The guy was a former college athlete running a 1/2 marathon - I just can't quite wrap my head around that (that he died from it, I mean). Regarding the study, those runners have to be putting up 60+ miles a week easy. Probably much more than that. So if their recommendation is "don't run 3000+ miles/year," I can live with that.

I was sickened for weeks after the three deaths in Detroit and this just did it again. Its been repeated here before, but I'll state it again (and urge everyone to do so) being an athlete does not mean skipping annual visits to your Doc. I have my annual physical, blood work, etc scheduled for next month.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Wraith: Awesome to have another member of the club!!!!!!

Gruecd: Just seeing your mileage made my calves cringe.

Tri-Man: Over training is not possible if you are the Tri-ManTM

Culdeus: then

Juxt: As you get older, all training seems slow

2Young:

_______________________________

My Update:

I'm in full duathlon training mode. I had my first brick on Saturday, and felt darn good, so I decided to turn it into a run (1.3 miles), bike (13 miles), run (2 miles). Since I haven't done hardly any "speed" work, I had zero clue what to expect, so I decided to try to keep my HR for the run one under 175; to maintain 172 (or lower) during the bike, then see what I had in the tank for the last run. I accomplished all of those goals, and was faster than I anticipated. The work out went:

Mile 1: 6:48

.3 miles: 6:50 (ending HR 175)

T1: 53 seconds (should have been faster but I had helmet issues)

13.2 mile bike: 21.4 MPH (HR stayed between 168 and 171 entire time)

T2: 41 seconds

Mile 1: 6:56 (HR 178)

Mile 2: 6:54 (HR 182)

IF I can maintain these times for the full 5k on both sides, I'll be able to kick last year's time, as I will be faster on the bike this year.

Sunday was an ez 20 mile ride in really high winds, and today I have a scheduled 6 mile slow run.

 

[2Young2BBald]

I am now officially signed up for my first triathlon. Twin Lakes Triathlon, Palatine, ILJune 27, 2010700 Meter Swim, 14 Mile Bike, 4.5 Mile Run

I'll be racing a sprint the same day.

 

[Nigel]

completely hammered after todays St Pat's 5K and subsequent post race party watching the parade. Crazy that 5,000+ folks showed up to run on a miserably cold & rainy day (might have been the free beer). There was no where to run with that many people and the 1st mile took us about 10 minutes. Hustled on the back of the out and back for a 24:02. Slower than I expected, but fun none the less.

You run the Ras na hEireann in Davis Square? 23:38 for me, and roughly 8 pints afterwards at Sligo.

 

[2Young2BBald]

completely hammered after todays St Pat's 5K and subsequent post race party watching the parade. Crazy that 5,000+ folks showed up to run on a miserably cold & rainy day (might have been the free beer). There was no where to run with that many people and the 1st mile took us about 10 minutes. Hustled on the back of the out and back for a 24:02. Slower than I expected, but fun none the less.

You run the Ras na hEireann in Davis Square? 23:38 for me, and roughly 8 pints afterwards at Sligo.

Not quite, just Detroit

 

[Nigel]

completely hammered after todays St Pat's 5K and subsequent post race party watching the parade. Crazy that 5,000+ folks showed up to run on a miserably cold & rainy day (might have been the free beer). There was no where to run with that many people and the 1st mile took us about 10 minutes. Hustled on the back of the out and back for a 24:02. Slower than I expected, but fun none the less.

You run the Ras na hEireann in Davis Square? 23:38 for me, and roughly 8 pints afterwards at Sligo.

Not quite, just Detroit

Funny, sounded exactly like the one I ran in in raw, monsoon-like conditions in MA yesterday. 6,000 registered but only 3,200 showed up. Still a crowded field for such a short race.

 

[tri-man 47]

I am now officially signed up for my first triathlon. Twin Lakes Triathlon, Palatine, ILJune 27, 2010700 Meter Swim, 14 Mile Bike, 4.5 Mile Run

Well, I know where I'm hoping to be spectating on the 27th!

 

[The_Man]

Gruecd: Just seeing your mileage made my calves cringe.

Speaking of which, does anyone have good stretches for their calves? The only two I know are the one where you put one leg behind the other with your heels flat on the ground and push against the wall and the one where you lean the bottom of your foot up against the curb.With the first one, in particular, I can't really seem to stretch the sore part of my calf, but neither is doing a great job for me now.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Gruecd: Just seeing your mileage made my calves cringe.

Speaking of which, does anyone have good stretches for their calves? The only two I know are the one where you put one leg behind the other with your heels flat on the ground and push against the wall and the one where you lean the bottom of your foot up against the curb.With the first one, in particular, I can't really seem to stretch the sore part of my calf, but neither is doing a great job for me now.

I use the curb (or a step in opposite fashion. When warmed up, I stand on the curb and slowly drop one calf down below the curb, with the opposite foot & leg supporting a slow drop of the other calf. I hold for about 20 seconds (should do longer) and then switch. I couple this with the push of the wall with each leg extended to stretch each calf. Having a "trick" right calf, these seem to get the the stretching I need.

 

[Sand]

That's just another study in what will likely turn the worm towards shorter, more intense interval based workouts as base training. It's inevitable now.And the guy that died yesterday in the Dallas one. 32 years old.

32 with a wife and 2 little kids, apparently. The guy was a former college athlete running a 1/2 marathon - I just can't quite wrap my head around that (that he died from it, I mean). Regarding the study, those runners have to be putting up 60+ miles a week easy. Probably much more than that. So if their recommendation is "don't run 3000+ miles/year," I can live with that.

10-19 hrs/wk? If they are running that much they are probably pretty darn fast. Based on those hours I'd estimate 75-140 miles/week. They really need to do a similar study looking at "moderate" endurance athletes. Their choice of the extreme athlete really paints a warped picture.

 

[wraith5]

2000 yds in the pool today - 100, 200, 300, 400, 400, 300, 200, 100.

I read somewhere that I should target 20 strokes per 25yd lap - is that right? 'cause on my best laps, I was at 25. Mostly I was closer to 30...

 

[Keggers]

I spent the weekend in Chicago with my girlfriend. We went to her friend's annual St. Paddy's party on Saturday....so that was 9+ hours of drinking and eating...probably walked over 10 miles in cold, windy, rainy weather. Needless to say, I rescheduled my long Sunday run and did it this afternoon. 8 miles at 8:31.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Anyone heard of and/or tried Perky Jerky? I saw it in this month's Triathlete Mag. I use zero salt on anything, anymore, but get a salt Jones every once in a while and like to grab a bag of jerky. With the salt content of typical jerky, it may be a good item to address for longer events.

 

[Tecumseh]

Gearing up for my 1/2 this Sunday. Drinking water like crazy and seriously cutting back my carb intake on advice from a friend who is a personal trainer and is running it with me. She said I should cut the caffeine too, but that's a tougher task than I am capable of.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Anyone heard of and/or tried Perky Jerky? I saw it in this month's Triathlete Mag. I use zero salt on anything, anymore, but get a salt Jones every once in a while and like to grab a bag of jerky. With the salt content of typical jerky, it may be a good item to address for longer events.

I've jerky'ed to some perky, but don't know what that has to do with training?

 

[2Young2BBald]

Anyone heard of and/or tried Perky Jerky? I saw it in this month's Triathlete Mag. I use zero salt on anything, anymore, but get a salt Jones every once in a while and like to grab a bag of jerky. With the salt content of typical jerky, it may be a good item to address for longer events.

I've jerky'ed to some perky, but don't know what that has to do with training?

Resetting your endorphin levels, very important to training (and staying married for 20 years).

 

[Sand]

2000 yds in the pool today - 100, 200, 300, 400, 400, 300, 200, 100.

I read somewhere that I should target 20 strokes per 25yd lap - is that right? 'cause on my best laps, I was at 25. Mostly I was closer to 30...

How tall are you? Lanky arms? A lot of that really changes depending on your makeup. There is no hard number to target. It also depends on how you measure "strokes". I assume you are measuring each arm individually inside a 25yd lap. If so 30 is getting up there and indicates that you have some work to do to lengthen your stroke.For reference I am 5'8" and run pretty consistently at 18 strokes/25yd. I can still get better, though - lots of flaws in my stroke still. I taped a 100yd set the other day (my kid got a little video recorder - great little toy) - you can see it

for reference. If you peek at it for the love of God mute it, otherwise the kids screaming in the pool there will drive you nuts. You can probably pick out about 12 stroke flaws - I pick out many more than that.

 

[tri-man 47]

2000 yds in the pool today - 100, 200, 300, 400, 400, 300, 200, 100.

I read somewhere that I should target 20 strokes per 25yd lap - is that right? 'cause on my best laps, I was at 25. Mostly I was closer to 30...

How tall are you? Lanky arms? A lot of that really changes depending on your makeup. There is no hard number to target. It also depends on how you measure "strokes". I assume you are measuring each arm individually inside a 25yd lap. If so 30 is getting up there and indicates that you have some work to do to lengthen your stroke.For reference I am 5'8" and run pretty consistently at 18 strokes/25yd. I can still get better, though - lots of flaws in my stroke still. I taped a 100yd set the other day (my kid got a little video recorder - great little toy) - you can see it

Wraith - while I'm 6/3", my stroke count is typically about 21 or 22 per 25/yd. I'm no Sand!Sand - sweet! Thanks for sharing that.

 

[BassNBrew]

2000 yds in the pool today - 100, 200, 300, 400, 400, 300, 200, 100.

I read somewhere that I should target 20 strokes per 25yd lap - is that right? 'cause on my best laps, I was at 25. Mostly I was closer to 30...

How tall are you? Lanky arms? A lot of that really changes depending on your makeup. There is no hard number to target. It also depends on how you measure "strokes". I assume you are measuring each arm individually inside a 25yd lap. If so 30 is getting up there and indicates that you have some work to do to lengthen your stroke.For reference I am 5'8" and run pretty consistently at 18 strokes/25yd. I can still get better, though - lots of flaws in my stroke still. I taped a 100yd set the other day (my kid got a little video recorder - great little toy) - you can see it

You could probably drop two strokes in a speedo.

 

[Sand]

2000 yds in the pool today - 100, 200, 300, 400, 400, 300, 200, 100.

I read somewhere that I should target 20 strokes per 25yd lap - is that right? 'cause on my best laps, I was at 25. Mostly I was closer to 30...

How tall are you? Lanky arms? A lot of that really changes depending on your makeup. There is no hard number to target. It also depends on how you measure "strokes". I assume you are measuring each arm individually inside a 25yd lap. If so 30 is getting up there and indicates that you have some work to do to lengthen your stroke.For reference I am 5'8" and run pretty consistently at 18 strokes/25yd. I can still get better, though - lots of flaws in my stroke still. I taped a 100yd set the other day (my kid got a little video recorder - great little toy) - you can see it

Probably - I haven't found a need for a competition suit in anything I've done thus far. I have tri suits and those board shorts right now. Not wearing a tri suit in the pool. In practice, really, who cares what I wear?Having said that I do have a FINA legal suit on the way for my May swim. I want to try it out in a pool and see how much difference it makes. That set was at 1:20 for the 100. Frankly, if I drop more than :02 due to the suit I'll be surprised.

 

[wraith5]

2000 yds in the pool today - 100, 200, 300, 400, 400, 300, 200, 100.

I read somewhere that I should target 20 strokes per 25yd lap - is that right? 'cause on my best laps, I was at 25. Mostly I was closer to 30...

How tall are you? Lanky arms? A lot of that really changes depending on your makeup. There is no hard number to target. It also depends on how you measure "strokes". I assume you are measuring each arm individually inside a 25yd lap. If so 30 is getting up there and indicates that you have some work to do to lengthen your stroke.For reference I am 5'8" and run pretty consistently at 18 strokes/25yd. I can still get better, though - lots of flaws in my stroke still. I taped a 100yd set the other day (my kid got a little video recorder - great little toy) - you can see it

I'm just north of 6'1" and 195lbs. I have no idea how to lengthen my stroke, but I'll check out swim smooth and see if there are any instructional videos on YouTube that do the trick. I watched Sand's video, but I can't tell what I'm doing wrong / differently (and it's clearly a lot). At least now I know what to focus on!

 

[Juxtatarot]

On my slow runs, I breath on a different cadence (instead of every second step, I breath every third), which tells me that that run is focused on controlled breathing and true aerobic training - not pace; not tempo. Bottom line, the key muscle that you're developing is your heart.

Well, I was successful in a recovery run tonight, thanks to a treadmill. I must say that was the most boring 5.1 miles I can remember. I thought about your cadence suggestion but I don't think my steps are in rhythm with my breaths. I'd never focused on that before. I'll think about that again during faster runs.

 

[Juxtatarot]

I strongly urge you to check this out: FIRST training

Thanks for the link! I haven't seen that one before. I'm a little stubborn about doing my own thing but there are some ideas there I can incorporate.

 

[2Young2BBald]

2000 yds in the pool today - 100, 200, 300, 400, 400, 300, 200, 100.

I read somewhere that I should target 20 strokes per 25yd lap - is that right? 'cause on my best laps, I was at 25. Mostly I was closer to 30...

How tall are you? Lanky arms? A lot of that really changes depending on your makeup. There is no hard number to target. It also depends on how you measure "strokes". I assume you are measuring each arm individually inside a 25yd lap. If so 30 is getting up there and indicates that you have some work to do to lengthen your stroke.For reference I am 5'8" and run pretty consistently at 18 strokes/25yd. I can still get better, though - lots of flaws in my stroke still. I taped a 100yd set the other day (my kid got a little video recorder - great little toy) - you can see it

The old slow down to go faster seems to work for lengthening my stroke as well. I made it a point to pay attention to my stroke count early in my sets and towards the end. I was at 20 & 21 in the 1st 100 yards, but went to 25+ towards the end tonight. As I tire, I find my arm turnover increases in speed and my form fails, all which means I am stroking more. Try a few 100s where you really glide out the arm reach and almost coast in the water before drawing your arm down to your side.

 

[Sand]

2000 yds in the pool today - 100, 200, 300, 400, 400, 300, 200, 100.

I read somewhere that I should target 20 strokes per 25yd lap - is that right? 'cause on my best laps, I was at 25. Mostly I was closer to 30...

How tall are you? Lanky arms? A lot of that really changes depending on your makeup. There is no hard number to target. It also depends on how you measure "strokes". I assume you are measuring each arm individually inside a 25yd lap. If so 30 is getting up there and indicates that you have some work to do to lengthen your stroke.For reference I am 5'8" and run pretty consistently at 18 strokes/25yd. I can still get better, though - lots of flaws in my stroke still. I taped a 100yd set the other day (my kid got a little video recorder - great little toy) - you can see it

Honestly you probably have a number of things involved. Body position, arm extension and pull are all likely culprits (and they are probably all there). If you had a video I could help, but honestly the best thing to do is spring for a couple lessons. That will have significant dividends.

 

[Sand]

2000 yds in the pool today - 100, 200, 300, 400, 400, 300, 200, 100.

I read somewhere that I should target 20 strokes per 25yd lap - is that right? 'cause on my best laps, I was at 25. Mostly I was closer to 30...

How tall are you? Lanky arms? A lot of that really changes depending on your makeup. There is no hard number to target. It also depends on how you measure "strokes". I assume you are measuring each arm individually inside a 25yd lap. If so 30 is getting up there and indicates that you have some work to do to lengthen your stroke.For reference I am 5'8" and run pretty consistently at 18 strokes/25yd. I can still get better, though - lots of flaws in my stroke still. I taped a 100yd set the other day (my kid got a little video recorder - great little toy) - you can see it

Learn to love the catch-up drill. Don't forget to throw in several kick sets! (yes, I'm evil.)

 

[wraith5]

2000 yds in the pool today - 100, 200, 300, 400, 400, 300, 200, 100.

I read somewhere that I should target 20 strokes per 25yd lap - is that right? 'cause on my best laps, I was at 25. Mostly I was closer to 30...

How tall are you? Lanky arms? A lot of that really changes depending on your makeup. There is no hard number to target. It also depends on how you measure "strokes". I assume you are measuring each arm individually inside a 25yd lap. If so 30 is getting up there and indicates that you have some work to do to lengthen your stroke.For reference I am 5'8" and run pretty consistently at 18 strokes/25yd. I can still get better, though - lots of flaws in my stroke still. I taped a 100yd set the other day (my kid got a little video recorder - great little toy) - you can see it

Straight from Swim Smooth: "If you feel like you fight the water when you swim you probably have a short, slightly scrappy stroke with poor rotation. To develop your body roll you need to give yourself more time on each stroke to lengthen out. To do this, consciously try and swim slower and rotate from the hip as you reach forwards on every stroke."

They also talk about the rotator cuff stress swimming flat causes - my rotator cuffs are sore as hell right now.

Now I can't wait to get back in the pool to work on body roll!!

Thanks for the advice guys!

 

[Sand]

"If you feel like you fight the water when you swim you probably have a short, slightly scrappy stroke with poor rotation. To develop your body roll you need to give yourself more time on each stroke to lengthen out. To do this, consciously try and swim slower and rotate from the hip as you reach forwards on every stroke."

They also talk about the rotator cuff stress swimming flat causes - my rotator cuffs are sore as hell right now.

Now I can't wait to get back in the pool to work on body roll!!

Thanks for the advice guys!

Yeah - body position, extension, and pull. Just what I said. I am dead serious about springing for at least one lesson. Or find someone good to swim with who you can pump for information. I really helps to have someone else deconstruct your stroke.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Quick update for me.

Saturday, got a break in the weather and went out and did 10 miles. Was not really concerned with pacing, just getting the miles in. Sunday, did not get a break from the weather and ran 20 in a little rain and mist. Just one of those runs that sometimes you have to do to prove things to yourself. I don't mind running in the rain, but try to avoid it if I can. I had to get this run in as I did not have time the rest of the day and it does make you feel pretty good to be able to go out in the rain and do a run even though it is not the greatest time doing it. Yesterday, I stayed home from work because I was not feeling well, but still managed to get a run in the afternoon. I just had a sore throat and that was good enough to stay home from work.

I topped 56 miles this week and I think that was a new personal best for me. I am still feeling the 20 from Sunday, but this is a step back week for me so I will rest a little easier this week.

 

[gruecd]

Quick update for me.

Saturday, got a break in the weather and went out and did 10 miles. Was not really concerned with pacing, just getting the miles in. Sunday, did not get a break from the weather and ran 20 in a little rain and mist. Just one of those runs that sometimes you have to do to prove things to yourself. I don't mind running in the rain, but try to avoid it if I can. I had to get this run in as I did not have time the rest of the day and it does make you feel pretty good to be able to go out in the rain and do a run even though it is not the greatest time doing it. Yesterday, I stayed home from work because I was not feeling well, but still managed to get a run in the afternoon. I just had a sore throat and that was good enough to stay home from work.

I topped 56 miles this week and I think that was a new personal best for me. I am still feeling the 20 from Sunday, but this is a step back week for me so I will rest a little easier this week.

Great job on both the 10/20 and the 56-mile week. I think you should just go ahead and shoot for the 3:10 at the Pig. That way you can join me and tri-man in Boston next year!