Ran a 10k in June (4 Viewers)

[wraith5]

Great news - I found some of my missing speed (as in pace, people)!! Turns out I left it in the 50s (It's always the last place you look!).

I had one of my two scheduled mid-week 10 milers today, which worked out well because my oldest started kindergarten today, so my wife stayed home so we could all take him (and get laughed at by the parents who have already been through this while we took a dozen pictures!). This made it possible for me to get out of the house "early" (6:20) instead of my normal "after 7am" when our nanny gets there.

This was supposed to be at "Marathon Pace," which would be 8:25s according to my pace schedule I haven't been close to that schedule on any of my tempo/long runs for months (and I really have no intention of trying to hit that pace at Chicago). Last night I was thinking I'd target 9s, which then became 8:50s. Then I walked outside into 58 degrees (still 80% humidity) and decided I'd keep it steady for the first 5 and see what I could do on the back 1/2.

5 miles - 43:14 (8:39s). I was holding back quite a bit, and was actually averaging faster than that for a few miles before I made myself throttle back.

4 miles - 33:12 (8:19s). I didn't break out each mile, but I'm pretty sure I gradually got faster as I went.

last mile - 7:47.

Overall 1:24:16 - 8:26s. Only 0:01/mile off my official target. If I'd had any idea I was that close I would have hit it easily. What a difference cool air makes!

 

[BassNBrew]

Great news - I found some of my missing speed (as in pace, people)!! Turns out I left it in the 50s (It's always the last place you look!).

I had one of my two scheduled mid-week 10 milers today, which worked out well because my oldest started kindergarten today, so my wife stayed home so we could all take him (and get laughed at by the parents who have already been through this while we took a dozen pictures!). This made it possible for me to get out of the house "early" (6:20) instead of my normal "after 7am" when our nanny gets there.

This was supposed to be at "Marathon Pace," which would be 8:25s according to my pace schedule I haven't been close to that schedule on any of my tempo/long runs for months (and I really have no intention of trying to hit that pace at Chicago). Last night I was thinking I'd target 9s, which then became 8:50s. Then I walked outside into 58 degrees (still 80% humidity) and decided I'd keep it steady for the first 5 and see what I could do on the back 1/2.

5 miles - 43:14 (8:39s). I was holding back quite a bit, and was actually averaging faster than that for a few miles before I made myself throttle back.

4 miles - 33:12 (8:19s). I didn't break out each mile, but I'm pretty sure I gradually got faster as I went.

last mile - 7:47.

Overall 1:24:16 - 8:26s. Only 0:01/mile off my official target. If I'd had any idea I was that close I would have hit it easily. What a difference cool air makes!

Well now you're back on track for hitting that pace at Chicago.

 

[gruecd]

AWESOME job, Wraith!!!!!

Hoping I have similar success when I try running 6:45s for 13.1 miles on Saturday!

 

[pigskinliquors]

Ned: Welcome to the Garmin family!! I dare you to try to run a full half mile w/o looking at thing.

Gruecd: 6:45 for 13.1 sounds like a blast!

Wraith: I'm officially jealous, as we're at least two months from even sniffing anything near 58. GREAT RUN!

Workhorse: 50 miles in a week is a big number. Great to hear that you've been able to throttle back. With that type of mileage, you'll need to have lots of slow miles.

bostonfred: keep a stopwatch on your wrist and work hard to get in the 90 RPM range. Once you get a good rhythm at that cadence keep it throughout your intervals (adjusting tension to go hard and recover). A HRM would allow you to then adjust your effort to make sure you are getting something out of it. My HR stays way down on a bike compared to while running. Thus, using a HRM typically makes me work harder than I would w/o it on the bike, but less hard while running.

__________________________

My update:

I attempted another "speed" workout today. I was slightly faster today, but not happy with how high my HR is getting early in my runs. I again just did a 4x800 with 400 recoveries between (mile warm up/down). My intervals were:

1) 7:01 pace (max HR 181)

2) 7:04 pace (max HR 183)

3) 6:58 pace (max HR 185)

4) 7:00 pace (max HR 186)

each of my cool downs were progressively slower, as my HR really didn't want to come down between them (9:52 pace after #3). I was happy that I was able to keep my HR right around 172 for the last half mile of my recovery, with my final mile being 9:18.

I used Smart Coach to create my training program for Houston (my first legit attempt to BQ!), and my 16 week plan starts 10/11 = just over six weeks to get my base miles in and my speed up.

 

[bostonfred]

Thanks guys. I was already thinking about getting a heart rate monitor for running after seeing what you guys were doing with them; now I'll probably get one and use it for both biking and running.

One problem I have with RPM is that I tend to keep my cadence low (I vastly prefer 80 hard RPM to 120 easy RPM) when biking and use a higher gear instead of keeping a higher cadence. That's an artifact of having a bigger frame, but it also gets me standing too early on hills so I probably should suck it up and work on a higher cadence.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Thanks guys. I was already thinking about getting a heart rate monitor for running after seeing what you guys were doing with them; now I'll probably get one and use it for both biking and running.

One problem I have with RPM is that I tend to keep my cadence low (I vastly prefer 80 hard RPM to 120 easy RPM) when biking and use a higher gear instead of keeping a higher cadence. That's an artifact of having a bigger frame, but it also gets me standing too early on hills so I probably should suck it up and work on a higher cadence.

80 is not a bad cadence. I lot of people argue that 80 is preferred for TT'ing = get in a bigger gear and push it. IF you are trying to gain power 80 is a great number. IF you are working on endurance and burning calories, 90 is a better one.Edited to add this data on the subject.

 

[Sand]

Thanks guys. I was already thinking about getting a heart rate monitor for running after seeing what you guys were doing with them; now I'll probably get one and use it for both biking and running.

One problem I have with RPM is that I tend to keep my cadence low (I vastly prefer 80 hard RPM to 120 easy RPM) when biking and use a higher gear instead of keeping a higher cadence. That's an artifact of having a bigger frame, but it also gets me standing too early on hills so I probably should suck it up and work on a higher cadence.

80 is not a bad cadence. I lot of people argue that 80 is preferred for TT'ing = get in a bigger gear and push it. IF you are trying to gain power 80 is a great number. IF you are working on endurance and burning calories, 90 is a better one.Edited to add this data on the subject.

I think if I tried TTing at 80rpm my thighs would explode. At 80 I feel like the gear is on top of me, rather than the other way around. Everything I have seen says that cadence really doesn't matter all that much - whatever works for you. And I don't think there are any studies that show 70 is good for this and 100 is good for that. If you find any pass them along.

As a point of reference I averaged 97rpm in my last tri bike. Jan Ullrich I am not.

 

[gruecd]

I used Smart Coach to create my training program for Houston (my first legit attempt to BQ!)

Damn it, dude. I was kinda planning to not run Boston in 2012, but now if you're gonna be there....

 

[Darrinll40]

Great news - I found some of my missing speed (as in pace, people)!! Turns out I left it in the 50s (It's always the last place you look!).

I had one of my two scheduled mid-week 10 milers today, which worked out well because my oldest started kindergarten today, so my wife stayed home so we could all take him (and get laughed at by the parents who have already been through this while we took a dozen pictures!). This made it possible for me to get out of the house "early" (6:20) instead of my normal "after 7am" when our nanny gets there.

This was supposed to be at "Marathon Pace," which would be 8:25s according to my pace schedule I haven't been close to that schedule on any of my tempo/long runs for months (and I really have no intention of trying to hit that pace at Chicago). Last night I was thinking I'd target 9s, which then became 8:50s. Then I walked outside into 58 degrees (still 80% humidity) and decided I'd keep it steady for the first 5 and see what I could do on the back 1/2.

5 miles - 43:14 (8:39s). I was holding back quite a bit, and was actually averaging faster than that for a few miles before I made myself throttle back.

4 miles - 33:12 (8:19s). I didn't break out each mile, but I'm pretty sure I gradually got faster as I went.

last mile - 7:47.

Overall 1:24:16 - 8:26s. Only 0:01/mile off my official target. If I'd had any idea I was that close I would have hit it easily. What a difference cool air makes!

58 degrees in August!?!?!?!?!Remind me to laugh at all you northerners in January when I am running outside and you are on treadmills.

Great job on the run.

 

[pigskinliquors]

I used Smart Coach to create my training program for Houston (my first legit attempt to BQ!)

Damn it, dude. I was kinda planning to not run Boston in 2012, but now if you're gonna be there....

:fingerscrossed: I haven't run a sub 3:30 in over a decade and the last three times I've trained for sub 3:30 I've been injured. All three times though, I made it to within a month of the race, and was right on schedule to go sub 3:30 With 2XU's and a much better feel for what causes my calves to explode, I think I at least have a boxer's chance

 

[Darrinll40]

Ned: Welcome to the Garmin family!! I dare you to try to run a full half mile w/o looking at thing.

It took me 2 or 3 months to stop looking at the Garmin every 5 minutes. Now I can comfortably run at least 8 minutes without looking.Then I spend half an hour later just looking at the data.

 

[bostonfred]

Thanks guys. I was already thinking about getting a heart rate monitor for running after seeing what you guys were doing with them; now I'll probably get one and use it for both biking and running.

One problem I have with RPM is that I tend to keep my cadence low (I vastly prefer 80 hard RPM to 120 easy RPM) when biking and use a higher gear instead of keeping a higher cadence. That's an artifact of having a bigger frame, but it also gets me standing too early on hills so I probably should suck it up and work on a higher cadence.

80 is not a bad cadence. I lot of people argue that 80 is preferred for TT'ing = get in a bigger gear and push it. IF you are trying to gain power 80 is a great number. IF you are working on endurance and burning calories, 90 is a better one.Edited to add this data on the subject.

I think if I tried TTing at 80rpm my thighs would explode. At 80 I feel like the gear is on top of me, rather than the other way around. Everything I have seen says that cadence really doesn't matter all that much - whatever works for you. And I don't think there are any studies that show 70 is good for this and 100 is good for that. If you find any pass them along.

As a point of reference I averaged 97rpm in my last tri bike. Jan Ullrich I am not.

Back when I used to race, I was a time trial specialist. Or, as I used to say to my skinny little midget friends on the team, a downhill specialist. They'd blow by me up the hill, and then I'd pass them on the way back down and in the flats. Hilly courses sucked for me though. All of which was probably already encapsulated by saying "I prefer 80 RPM".

 

[gruecd]

Remind me to laugh at all you northerners in January when I am running outside and you are on treadmills.

No treadmills for this guy.

 

[Workhorse]

I used Smart Coach to create my training program for Houston (my first legit attempt to BQ!)

Damn it, dude. I was kinda planning to not run Boston in 2012, but now if you're gonna be there....

:fingerscrossed: I haven't run a sub 3:30 in over a decade and the last three times I've trained for sub 3:30 I've been injured. All three times though, I made it to within a month of the race, and was right on schedule to go sub 3:30 With 2XU's and a much better feel for what causes my calves to explode, I think I at least have a boxer's chance

I'm targeting my BQ for 2012, when I turn 40 (3:20).

 

[Ned]

Great news - I found some of my missing speed (as in pace, people)!! Turns out I left it in the 50s (It's always the last place you look!).

I had one of my two scheduled mid-week 10 milers today, which worked out well because my oldest started kindergarten today, so my wife stayed home so we could all take him (and get laughed at by the parents who have already been through this while we took a dozen pictures!). This made it possible for me to get out of the house "early" (6:20) instead of my normal "after 7am" when our nanny gets there.

This was supposed to be at "Marathon Pace," which would be 8:25s according to my pace schedule I haven't been close to that schedule on any of my tempo/long runs for months (and I really have no intention of trying to hit that pace at Chicago). Last night I was thinking I'd target 9s, which then became 8:50s. Then I walked outside into 58 degrees (still 80% humidity) and decided I'd keep it steady for the first 5 and see what I could do on the back 1/2.

5 miles - 43:14 (8:39s). I was holding back quite a bit, and was actually averaging faster than that for a few miles before I made myself throttle back.

4 miles - 33:12 (8:19s). I didn't break out each mile, but I'm pretty sure I gradually got faster as I went.

last mile - 7:47.

Overall 1:24:16 - 8:26s. Only 0:01/mile off my official target. If I'd had any idea I was that close I would have hit it easily. What a difference cool air makes!

NICE!!I have been floored with how much of a difference I'm feeling in the cooler weather. I knew it'd be better, but not this much better.

 

[Ned]

Ned: Welcome to the Garmin family!! I dare you to try to run a full half mile w/o looking at thing.

It took me 2 or 3 months to stop looking at the Garmin every 5 minutes. Now I can comfortably run at least 8 minutes without looking.Then I spend half an hour later just looking at the data.

Yesterday I was obsessed with watching my HR. I'm completely fascinated with the HR numbers and how it correlates to how you're feeling.

 

[BassNBrew]

Thanks guys. I was already thinking about getting a heart rate monitor for running after seeing what you guys were doing with them; now I'll probably get one and use it for both biking and running.

One problem I have with RPM is that I tend to keep my cadence low (I vastly prefer 80 hard RPM to 120 easy RPM) when biking and use a higher gear instead of keeping a higher cadence. That's an artifact of having a bigger frame, but it also gets me standing too early on hills so I probably should suck it up and work on a higher cadence.

80 is not a bad cadence. I lot of people argue that 80 is preferred for TT'ing = get in a bigger gear and push it. IF you are trying to gain power 80 is a great number. IF you are working on endurance and burning calories, 90 is a better one.Edited to add this data on the subject.

I think if I tried TTing at 80rpm my thighs would explode. At 80 I feel like the gear is on top of me, rather than the other way around. Everything I have seen says that cadence really doesn't matter all that much - whatever works for you. And I don't think there are any studies that show 70 is good for this and 100 is good for that. If you find any pass them along.

As a point of reference I averaged 97rpm in my last tri bike. Jan Ullrich I am not.

You would really benefit from a couple of sessions on a computrainer. A couple of the elite females on our team were shocked to see their average power numbers go up by running a gear up at a slower cadence (dropping from 105 to the upper 90s).I have also read that optimal cadence goes up as your power goes up but haven't read a good explanation as to why. When you get down to it, in theory cadence shouldn't matter as long as you're putting out the same watt numbers. You're applying power to the pedal the same amount of time using a slow or fast cadence. At a faster cadence you're doing it more often for shorter durations with more frequent, shorter rest periods.

 

[gruecd]

I'm targeting my BQ for 2012, when I turn 40 (3:20).

Just so everyone is aware of this little "loophole"....Qualifying time for age 18-34 is 3:10, 35-39 is 3:15.The qualifying window for Boston 2012 will open in late September 2010, so this year's Chicago Marathon will count for 2012. I'll be 33 when I run Chicago, but by the time Boston 2012 rolls around, I'll be 35. As such, even though I'll be 33 when I run Chicago, I'll still qualify for Boston 2012 as long as I go sub-3:15.Got it?

 

[The_Man]

I used Smart Coach to create my training program for Houston (my first legit attempt to BQ!)

Damn it, dude. I was kinda planning to not run Boston in 2012, but now if you're gonna be there....

:fingerscrossed: I haven't run a sub 3:30 in over a decade and the last three times I've trained for sub 3:30 I've been injured. All three times though, I made it to within a month of the race, and was right on schedule to go sub 3:30 With 2XU's and a much better feel for what causes my calves to explode, I think I at least have a boxer's chance

I'm targeting my BQ for 2012, when I turn 40 (3:20).

Funny, I'm targeting my BQ for 2013 -- I'll be 44 but my BQ time will be in the 45-50 range (3:30).Though to be honest, I'm beginning to think I have a BQ effort (3:20) in me during 2011. Maybe I'm naive to say that when I'm only halfway through the training for my first marathon, but I think I'm starting to understand what I need to do to get there. I'm already looking ahead to picking up the Pfitz 18/55 plan soon after my Oct. 31 race, with the idea that I'll resume training as soon as I can, only starting from a 40 mpw base, instead of a 25 mpw base like I did with this cycle.

I have become addicted to this. So much so, that I'm a candidate for a job that's a very lateral move, but I'm really interested in it because the schedule would enable me to do a medium-long midweek run.

Also, as I've mentioned in the past, my mother-in-law lives at the bottom of the descent from Heartbreak Hill. My wife grew up watching the Boston Marathon from there every year. I have this dream of running past my wife, and kids, and mother-in-law at the spot where my wife watched the runners go by as a kid herself. But my m-i-l is 80 and beginning to talk about selling the house, so I don't know if she'll be there by the time my 45-year-old self makes it there in 2014.

 

[Dexter]

Anyone heard from 2Y2B lately? He's probably scared I'm going to whoop his A Sunday at the Autumn colors tri this weekend.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Anyone heard from 2Y2B lately? He's probably scared I'm going to whoop his A Sunday at the Autumn colors tri this weekend.

Just back from 10 days down in Orlando, doing the Disney thing with family, late last night. I checked in here now and then on my phone, but have a ton of catching up to do. My is on you this weekend as I let loose on the food and the booze and only got three days worth of any sort of workout in. I picked the wrong course to slack before too. That bike course is the toughest I've done and that trail run is sneaky hard too. Look forward to see you (and the new ride) up there on Sunday!

 

[Ned]

Those look like great numbers. You may have been sandbagging the first just a bit. The effort on four bumped the heart rate. On five your time slowed hair (split hairs here) and the heart rate went up again. I'd say that you put out pretty consistant efforts that were hard enough to accumulate some fatigue which peaked it's head on effort 5.Ideally you would like to determine your lacate threashold and run these intervals above that number by 1-5 beats per minute. You can do consistant efforts at that spot. You don't want to spend to much time above that due to injury risk and the fact that you're not sprint training.How do you determine threshold? Find a route that will stay relatively flat for 20 minutes. You're going to run these 20 minutes as hard a possible. You will want to dole out your effort such that you don't blow up, but you'll have nothing left in the tank after 20 minutes. Record your average hr from min 10 to min 20 and this should get you close.

Really appreciate the advice, BNB. Aside from casual reading about HR training and knowing the basics, I'm pretty green. I was holding back a bit since I'm following the Higdon Intermediate HM plan and it calls for doing this at 5K pace. I have little to no self control and can't help but run faster than the prescribed 1:50ish pace. So I compromise and give it a decent stride and not press full on. That first one was probably a 1:35 or so since it was the first time I had run with the Garmin and all the beeps confused me. I pulled up when it was giving me the warning beeps thinking I was done when I still had a few feet left. Here in DE there's nothing but flat stuff so finding 20mins worth is no problem. I'm curious what my threshold is, so I'll probably take a stab at this tomorrow in lieu of the 3mi run I have on the plate.

If you're training for a 1/2 or full marathon I can see why 5k pace would be considered speed work. Basically this test is a 5k pace. I should have qualified my statement above about training above threshold applying to the 5k to possibly 10k range. Gru can probably add in some advice here, but speed work faster than 5k pace for a marathon isn't going to help and may be counter productive.Regardless it's still a helpful test for those of us who prefer to train by heart rate rather than pace. It allows me to ignore variables like hills and weather when trying to keep workouts on target.

I decided against the test today since I had a pretty fast 3mi run on Tuesday followed by yesterday's 'too fast' 5x400. I know I'm being a knucklehead with this, but I'm slowly learning how to run long distances. I'm really in uncharted territories with training for this HM, so I'm out of my comfort zone when it comes to the slower paces. It even sounds weird to me just typing that.At any rate, I'm fascinated with this HR stuff. Today was another 3mi run. I wanted to take it easier today for the same reasons I passed on the threshold test. It was a bit warmer today, but the humidity had gone down - 82 w/ 40% and bright sunshine. I just used the main display on the Garmin and didn't bother with any of the training modules. At each mile I hit the lap button so I could see my data per mile. I felt decent, but I probably pushed a touch more than I would've liked. I wasn't overly taxed, but it was a tad above calm/relaxed.1 - 8:12 avg HR 150/max 1592 - 8:11 avg HR 165/max 1703 - 8:06 avg HR 171/max 174For one, I'm shocked I negative split that today because I wasn't even trying to. I wanted to try and keep an average pace and call it a day. Second, I'm a little troubled with that 3rd mile - the 171/174 seems high when thinking back to yesterday's numbers.

 

[gruecd]

Just as a small gift. This is the most important survey I have ever seen in athletics. It is a must-read.

I vote 12.

I second the vote for number 12. Perhaps this picture of her will help solidify the vote. OMG.

 

[Dexter]

Anyone heard from 2Y2B lately? He's probably scared I'm going to whoop his A Sunday at the Autumn colors tri this weekend.

Just back from 10 days down in Orlando, doing the Disney thing with family, late last night. I checked in here now and then on my phone, but have a ton of catching up to do. My is on you this weekend as I let loose on the food and the booze and only got three days worth of any sort of workout in. I picked the wrong course to slack before too. That bike course is the toughest I've done and that trail run is sneaky hard too. Look forward to see you (and the new ride) up there on Sunday!

Really though I have no shot. But that's not going to stop me from swimming in your wake

 

[Sand]

I'm targeting my BQ for 2012, when I turn 40 (3:20).

Just so everyone is aware of this little "loophole"....Qualifying time for age 18-34 is 3:10, 35-39 is 3:15.The qualifying window for Boston 2012 will open in late September 2010, so this year's Chicago Marathon will count for 2012. I'll be 33 when I run Chicago, but by the time Boston 2012 rolls around, I'll be 35. As such, even though I'll be 33 when I run Chicago, I'll still qualify for Boston 2012 as long as I go sub-3:15.Got it?

And, of course, they truncate the seconds. So Grue really doesn't need 3:15. He needs 3:15:59.

 

[Sand]

Thanks guys. I was already thinking about getting a heart rate monitor for running after seeing what you guys were doing with them; now I'll probably get one and use it for both biking and running.

One problem I have with RPM is that I tend to keep my cadence low (I vastly prefer 80 hard RPM to 120 easy RPM) when biking and use a higher gear instead of keeping a higher cadence. That's an artifact of having a bigger frame, but it also gets me standing too early on hills so I probably should suck it up and work on a higher cadence.

80 is not a bad cadence. I lot of people argue that 80 is preferred for TT'ing = get in a bigger gear and push it. IF you are trying to gain power 80 is a great number. IF you are working on endurance and burning calories, 90 is a better one.Edited to add this data on the subject.

I think if I tried TTing at 80rpm my thighs would explode. At 80 I feel like the gear is on top of me, rather than the other way around. Everything I have seen says that cadence really doesn't matter all that much - whatever works for you. And I don't think there are any studies that show 70 is good for this and 100 is good for that. If you find any pass them along.

As a point of reference I averaged 97rpm in my last tri bike. Jan Ullrich I am not.

You would really benefit from a couple of sessions on a computrainer. A couple of the elite females on our team were shocked to see their average power numbers go up by running a gear up at a slower cadence (dropping from 105 to the upper 90s).I have also read that optimal cadence goes up as your power goes up but haven't read a good explanation as to why. When you get down to it, in theory cadence shouldn't matter as long as you're putting out the same watt numbers. You're applying power to the pedal the same amount of time using a slow or fast cadence. At a faster cadence you're doing it more often for shorter durations with more frequent, shorter rest periods.

I'd love to get on a computrainer and see what that gets me. I like upper 90s. 93-100. Above 105 or so and I start to get out of my zone (though I do fast cadence work just because you always seem to find yourself there on occasion). Why is ~95 my optimal? No clue.

 

[Darrinll40]

Those look like great numbers. You may have been sandbagging the first just a bit. The effort on four bumped the heart rate. On five your time slowed hair (split hairs here) and the heart rate went up again. I'd say that you put out pretty consistant efforts that were hard enough to accumulate some fatigue which peaked it's head on effort 5.Ideally you would like to determine your lacate threashold and run these intervals above that number by 1-5 beats per minute. You can do consistant efforts at that spot. You don't want to spend to much time above that due to injury risk and the fact that you're not sprint training.How do you determine threshold? Find a route that will stay relatively flat for 20 minutes. You're going to run these 20 minutes as hard a possible. You will want to dole out your effort such that you don't blow up, but you'll have nothing left in the tank after 20 minutes. Record your average hr from min 10 to min 20 and this should get you close.

Really appreciate the advice, BNB. Aside from casual reading about HR training and knowing the basics, I'm pretty green. I was holding back a bit since I'm following the Higdon Intermediate HM plan and it calls for doing this at 5K pace. I have little to no self control and can't help but run faster than the prescribed 1:50ish pace. So I compromise and give it a decent stride and not press full on. That first one was probably a 1:35 or so since it was the first time I had run with the Garmin and all the beeps confused me. I pulled up when it was giving me the warning beeps thinking I was done when I still had a few feet left. Here in DE there's nothing but flat stuff so finding 20mins worth is no problem. I'm curious what my threshold is, so I'll probably take a stab at this tomorrow in lieu of the 3mi run I have on the plate.

If you're training for a 1/2 or full marathon I can see why 5k pace would be considered speed work. Basically this test is a 5k pace. I should have qualified my statement above about training above threshold applying to the 5k to possibly 10k range. Gru can probably add in some advice here, but speed work faster than 5k pace for a marathon isn't going to help and may be counter productive.Regardless it's still a helpful test for those of us who prefer to train by heart rate rather than pace. It allows me to ignore variables like hills and weather when trying to keep workouts on target.

I decided against the test today since I had a pretty fast 3mi run on Tuesday followed by yesterday's 'too fast' 5x400. I know I'm being a knucklehead with this, but I'm slowly learning how to run long distances. I'm really in uncharted territories with training for this HM, so I'm out of my comfort zone when it comes to the slower paces. It even sounds weird to me just typing that.At any rate, I'm fascinated with this HR stuff. Today was another 3mi run. I wanted to take it easier today for the same reasons I passed on the threshold test. It was a bit warmer today, but the humidity had gone down - 82 w/ 40% and bright sunshine. I just used the main display on the Garmin and didn't bother with any of the training modules. At each mile I hit the lap button so I could see my data per mile. I felt decent, but I probably pushed a touch more than I would've liked. I wasn't overly taxed, but it was a tad above calm/relaxed.1 - 8:12 avg HR 150/max 1592 - 8:11 avg HR 165/max 1703 - 8:06 avg HR 171/max 174For one, I'm shocked I negative split that today because I wasn't even trying to. I wanted to try and keep an average pace and call it a day. Second, I'm a little troubled with that 3rd mile - the 171/174 seems high when thinking back to yesterday's numbers.

Tomorrow morning for my long run I am going to try the heart rate monitor that came with the new Garmin. The data from the HR that came with the old set never made sense. I once ran a 5 mile tempo run in 42 minutes and it said that my HR averaged 95. I didn't feel like I was slacking.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I once ran a 5 mile tempo run in 42 minutes and it said that my HR averaged 95.

_______________I think I'm going to have to replace my 205 before too long. The "mode" button has been temperamental for quite some time now, but it seems to have stopped working completely as of a couple weeks ago. This isn't the biggest deal in the world because I never use this for anything besides running anyway, but I would like to be able to view splits and of course reconfigure the device if I need to. The 205 and 305 are both quite a bit less expensive than they were I bought mine the first time, so I might have to look at upgrading to the HR monitor this time around.

 

[Ned]

Tomorrow morning for my long run I am going to try the heart rate monitor that came with the new Garmin. The data from the HR that came with the old set never made sense. I once ran a 5 mile tempo run in 42 minutes and it said that my HR averaged 95. I didn't feel like I was slacking.

Enjoy the run. Will be interested to hear how you make out with the HR.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Quick update for me today guys as I have gotten into work late.

Today I was up early to do 12 miles with 7 of those at mary pace. Well the weather was awesome this morning and that is the most positive thing I really have to say about it. I am confused beyond anything about my run this morning. I did the first 5 miles at a planned slower pace, but I was all over the place today. Several times I had to pull myself down to a slower pace and then it was too slow. I will admit that I was a bit tired today, but my legs felt good, just not my head. Once my 7 MP miles came into play, the data shows that I put in pretty even effort as far as heartrate goes, around 160 - 165 for almost all of the miles. My times is what through me off though. I was anywhere between 7:09 and 7:51 for the miles. Granted the route I run has a few pretty good hills that go up over the course of a half mile (2 that do this) so there was some time spent going up those, but I thought that I was moving a lot faster than I was in the other times. When I would look at my watch for pace it was usually between 6:55 and 7:15. I did have atleast two stops to take a gel and some beverage so add some time into that. I don't know what to think about it. I felt really good. A little strained at the end of it, but overall I am happy with it, just not the times.

Maybe I am worrying too much about that.

Have a great weekend everyone. Keep up the great efforts.

 

[Workhorse]

Had an excellent run this AM. 10 mile tempo run with 2 mile warmup, 6 miles at half-marathon pace, 2 mile cooldown:

1: 8:40

2: 8:31

3: 7:48

4: 7:42

5: 7:46

6: 7:42

7: 7:40

8: 7:29

9: 8:48

10: 8:25

Felt fantastic the whole way through. Probably my best Lactate Threshold run this season.

 

[Workhorse]

I'm targeting my BQ for 2012, when I turn 40 (3:20).

Just so everyone is aware of this little "loophole"....Qualifying time for age 18-34 is 3:10, 35-39 is 3:15.The qualifying window for Boston 2012 will open in late September 2010, so this year's Chicago Marathon will count for 2012. I'll be 33 when I run Chicago, but by the time Boston 2012 rolls around, I'll be 35. As such, even though I'll be 33 when I run Chicago, I'll still qualify for Boston 2012 as long as I go sub-3:15.Got it?

I knew there was a window but I didn't realize it was quite that long. Interesting. I'm still a few marathons away from a 3:20 though. Possibly by next fall I could do it and run in 2013.

 

[gruecd]

[And, of course, they truncate the seconds. So Grue really doesn't need 3:15. He needs 3:15:59.

You know, as I was out for my little pre-race recovery run this morning, I was thinking about how my dad thought I was full of crap when I told him that I was going to run my first marathon back in 2004. Then I was thinking about how Boston seemed like a pipe dream to me; I never thought it was going to happen. Now I'm at the point where I've done 11 marathons, I've run Boston twice, I'm already qualified for 2011, and I pretty much expect (not hope) to re-qualify every year.My point is this--whenever you guys start to doubt yourselves, just know that your breakthrough is out there on the horizon. You don't know when it's coming, but it's out there, and it's all downhill from there!

13.1 for me tomorrow morning, goal time is 1:28:30.

Hope you all have a great weekend!

 

[pigskinliquors]

Ned: in your settings (I think it's auto lap) you need to make it so that 1 mile = a lap. This way you won't have to push the lap button after every mile, it will automatically do it for you. Since you don't know what your max HR is, there's no way to know if 171/174 is good or bad. For me, those numbers have me in a very comfortable zone, for others those numbers suggest they are in trouble.

Sand: I think cadence has to do more with familiarity then anything else. I believe my body is much more efficient when my tempo and/or cadence are very consistent. Varying the effort tends to have my HR jump around and escalate more quickly than consistency.

pmbrown: Don't worry about the times. The key is that your HR stayed in a really tight zone. The slower miles most likely reflect the changes in terrain, as your HR suggests consistent output.

Workhorse: GREAT run!

Gruecd: Have a great race! At my age breakthroughs have less to do with the times I run/swim/bike, and more to do with completing new challenges.

 

[El Floppo]

Thanks guys. I was already thinking about getting a heart rate monitor for running after seeing what you guys were doing with them; now I'll probably get one and use it for both biking and running.

One problem I have with RPM is that I tend to keep my cadence low (I vastly prefer 80 hard RPM to 120 easy RPM) when biking and use a higher gear instead of keeping a higher cadence. That's an artifact of having a bigger frame, but it also gets me standing too early on hills so I probably should suck it up and work on a higher cadence.

80 is not a bad cadence. I lot of people argue that 80 is preferred for TT'ing = get in a bigger gear and push it. IF you are trying to gain power 80 is a great number. IF you are working on endurance and burning calories, 90 is a better one.Edited to add this data on the subject.

I think if I tried TTing at 80rpm my thighs would explode. At 80 I feel like the gear is on top of me, rather than the other way around. Everything I have seen says that cadence really doesn't matter all that much - whatever works for you. And I don't think there are any studies that show 70 is good for this and 100 is good for that. If you find any pass them along.

As a point of reference I averaged 97rpm in my last tri bike. Jan Ullrich I am not.

I was more like Sand... 80 meant pushing slowing things down or going uphill- I tended to TT in the mid-90s.eta- and of course, my cycling was always attached to doing triathlons, so I found spinning the easier gears faster made the run easier.

 

[wraith5]

Had an excellent run this AM. 10 mile tempo run with 2 mile warmup, 6 miles at half-marathon pace, 2 mile cooldown:1: 8:402: 8:313: 7:484: 7:425: 7:466: 7:427: 7:408: 7:299: 8:4810: 8:25Felt fantastic the whole way through. Probably my best Lactate Threshold run this season.

Great run!! pmb - how are you tracking pace during your run? If you are using the "current pace" function that could explain the significant variations, especially if you were trying to adjust on the fly. Regardless I wouldn't worry about it too much. _______________So, interestingly, after feeling so good about my run yesterday, I looked back at my data and realized I've been hitting that same speed (or faster) on my other 10 mile runs all summer. I guess it's a matter of how I felt doing it that was great. And the fact that I didn't lose a gallon of sweat in the process.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Had an excellent run this AM. 10 mile tempo run with 2 mile warmup, 6 miles at half-marathon pace, 2 mile cooldown:1: 8:402: 8:313: 7:484: 7:425: 7:466: 7:427: 7:408: 7:299: 8:4810: 8:25Felt fantastic the whole way through. Probably my best Lactate Threshold run this season.

Great run!! pmb - how are you tracking pace during your run? If you are using the "current pace" function that could explain the significant variations, especially if you were trying to adjust on the fly. Regardless I wouldn't worry about it too much. _______________So, interestingly, after feeling so good about my run yesterday, I looked back at my data and realized I've been hitting that same speed (or faster) on my other 10 mile runs all summer. I guess it's a matter of how I felt doing it that was great. And the fact that I didn't lose a gallon of sweat in the process.

I meant to check that last night as when I read you guys talking about it. I honestly don't remember when I set it up. I will have to check it before I use it on Sunday.I am not really worried about it all that much, but sometimes things just seem odd.

 

[wraith5]

pmb - how are you tracking pace during your run? If you are using the "current pace" function that could explain the significant variations, especially if you were trying to adjust on the fly. Regardless I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I meant to check that last night as when I read you guys talking about it. I honestly don't remember when I set it up. I will have to check it before I use it on Sunday.I am not really worried about it all that much, but sometimes things just seem odd.

It sounds like you're using the current pace function - that will most definitely make you nuts. As posted previously I use the current lap pace function and that works much much better. Smooths out the data so you really know what your ave pace is.

 

[prosopis]

[And, of course, they truncate the seconds. So Grue really doesn't need 3:15. He needs 3:15:59.

You know, as I was out for my little pre-race recovery run this morning, I was thinking about how my dad thought I was full of crap when I told him that I was going to run my first marathon back in 2004. Then I was thinking about how Boston seemed like a pipe dream to me; I never thought it was going to happen. Now I'm at the point where I've done 11 marathons, I've run Boston twice, I'm already qualified for 2011, and I pretty much expect (not hope) to re-qualify every year.My point is this--whenever you guys start to doubt yourselves, just know that your breakthrough is out there on the horizon. You don't know when it's coming, but it's out there, and it's all downhill from there!

13.1 for me tomorrow morning, goal time is 1:28:30.

Hope you all have a great weekend!

That is good to hear. Thanks This is exactly what I need to hear other then HTFU of course.

 

[prosopis]

I need your opinion here. I have been looking at fall races and signing up. I have one race that is free registration to anyone turning in $50 in tax deductible donations.

link http://www.runnroll.org/

Proceeds go to adaptive athletics at UA. What are your thoughts on putting this down at the conference table at work or soliciting face book friends? Will I come across as a jerk? I am truly looking for the free entry here. I have four to five races I want to hit this fall and the cheaper the better for me.

Update on this. I did put it out on the conference table and quite a few people donated. The boss got a hold of it and said he would put some in as well as the company cutting a check. He then says "you know this means you have to win". Me= Word has spread and people in the office are giving me the pressure to do well. I am going to look for a training schedule and get on it. I know everyone is joking but I do feel motivated to have a good showing now. This is not what I expected when I put that thing down for sponsors.

 

[prosopis]

I did 6.25 miles on the elyptical today. I plan on waking up early tomorrow to hit the streets. It may be getting cooler here, I hope. Tomorrow the goal is 6.5 miles with an improvement on past times.

 

[bostonfred]

I just got back from my normal 3 mile loop, and while I have no splits or heart rates or anything, I can say I hit my stride in a way I'd never done before. Strangely it started on a small uphill, when I just started pouring it on for some reason, and then I hit a nice downhill stretch and my legs were just doing their own thing. It smoothed out, and I kept going long after the downhill momentum was gone. I think I ran the last half mile stretch of road faster than I've ever run before. This is probably the feeling that you guys are talking about when you say you enjoy running. I've never really experienced that before.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

prosopis -- GL. If you want to do well in a 5K, get off the eliptical and get on the track. 400m repeats are the key workout for this distance, at least in my experience.

 

[wraith5]

prosopis -- GL. If you want to do well in a 5K, get off the eliptical and get on the track. 400m repeats are the key workout for this distance, at least in my experience.

The best way to run faster is to run faster!!

 

[Sand]

I just got back from my normal 3 mile loop, and while I have no splits or heart rates or anything, I can say I hit my stride in a way I'd never done before. Strangely it started on a small uphill, when I just started pouring it on for some reason, and then I hit a nice downhill stretch and my legs were just doing their own thing. It smoothed out, and I kept going long after the downhill momentum was gone. I think I ran the last half mile stretch of road faster than I've ever run before. This is probably the feeling that you guys are talking about when you say you enjoy running. I've never really experienced that before.

This was probably just your joy over BnB getting the wiggly finger coming to the surface. I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[prosopis]

prosopis -- GL. If you want to do well in a 5K, get off the eliptical and get on the track. 400m repeats are the key workout for this distance, at least in my experience.

The best way to run faster is to run faster!!

I am hoping the heat is going away. Running in over 100 degrees just kills me. This particular race is an 8k which I have never done before.

 

[Darrinll40]

I just finished an 8 mile run /walk. The ratio was again 3/1 and I managed to hold it almost all the way. At the 4 mile mark I did a 4/2 and right after 7 miles I did a 3/1.5. I wore the HR monitor that came with the replacement Garmin, and all I can figure is I am not doing it right. According to the device my average HR for the run was 51, with a high of 104. That means I must have had quite a stretch with no heart rate. I don't seem to get a good signal through the shirts I wear. I did finish the run about 30 seconds faster than last week, and almost averaged 12 m/m.

Anyway it was the coolest morning so far. 75 at the start, 77 at the end, though the humidity was 98 throughout. I was thinking of having a setback long run nest week. Maybe stick to 5.6 or 6 miles then normal Sunday run. Then the next week go back to 8. Anyone have any thoughts on that strategy?

 

[prosopis]

I just finished 6 miles on the street. Avg pace 11:33. Last night I read about tempo runs and I had intentions of trying that. As I got going I just fell into a groove. I am thinking to comfortable of a groove? although I was working but not dying. After mile 3 I decided to walk. I think that is what the idea of a tempo run is. Run pretty hard then rest up for a bit and run pretty hard again. I think where I blew it is I was not running hard enough. My avg HR was 155 with a max of 165. I think the avg should be 165 for me? I am going to try to reconfigure my Garmin so I can see the HR easier. I have a hard time seeing what it is while running due to the size.

mile 1 11:09 This included a brief warm up

mile 2 10:30

mile 3 10:29

mile 4 12:07 I walked .25 miles here

mile 5 12:40 started losing it here

mile 6 10:30 I just pushed as I really wanted to do better then I did the previous 2 miles.

I did a walk cool down for .63 miles at the end of this run. I did the same run last week. This week I improved by 3 min 15 secs. I dont know if that was due to the different plan I had for this week or cooler temps or both?

 

[prosopis]

I am at the link http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2008/01/ten-ran...our-garmin.html for the 305 garmin that someone put in here. The link says to stop using the garmin training center and to use SportTracks http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTracks

Does any one use that? I am a computer idiot so bear with me here. When I plug my garmin in after a run the garmin training center fires up automatically. If I download sportTracks how do I get that to be the default? From what I am reading the garmin training software is not that good compared to other software. I will wait for a reply here before downloading anything.

The standalone Garmin Training Center app that you install is a piece of junk. On the other hand I find the online version (Garmin Connect) to be quite nice. Garmin connect may be everything you need - it all depends on what you want to do. Sportracks can do a decent bit of stuff, but for all that other folks like it I find it to be difficult to navigate. Do you just want to look at your basic stats, maps of where you went, and 1 mile intervals? Garmin Connect is fine.

Do you want to track your daily workouts? I find the online app at Beginnertriathlete to be superb.

Do you want a pretty rendering of your workout course as well as more fine analysis of your run/bike? Use topofusion (the demo version works fine, is free, and doesn't expire).

Oh hell yeah. I've been using the default Garmin Training Center all these years, and I'm definitely going to spend the weekend playing around with some of these alternatives.

Did you settle on one of these?

 

[Darrinll40]

I am at the link http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2008/01/ten-ran...our-garmin.html for the 305 garmin that someone put in here. The link says to stop using the garmin training center and to use SportTracks http://www.zonefivesoftware.com/SportTracks

Does any one use that? I am a computer idiot so bear with me here. When I plug my garmin in after a run the garmin training center fires up automatically. If I download sportTracks how do I get that to be the default? From what I am reading the garmin training software is not that good compared to other software. I will wait for a reply here before downloading anything.

The standalone Garmin Training Center app that you install is a piece of junk. On the other hand I find the online version (Garmin Connect) to be quite nice. Garmin connect may be everything you need - it all depends on what you want to do. Sportracks can do a decent bit of stuff, but for all that other folks like it I find it to be difficult to navigate. Do you just want to look at your basic stats, maps of where you went, and 1 mile intervals? Garmin Connect is fine.

Do you want to track your daily workouts? I find the online app at Beginnertriathlete to be superb.

Do you want a pretty rendering of your workout course as well as more fine analysis of your run/bike? Use topofusion (the demo version works fine, is free, and doesn't expire).

Oh hell yeah. I've been using the default Garmin Training Center all these years, and I'm definitely going to spend the weekend playing around with some of these alternatives.

Did you settle on one of these?

I am going to try both for a little while. SportsTrack will take a while to get used to but I do like it so far.