Ran a 10k in June (7 Viewers)

[gruecd]

Hey, everybody. Was hoping to get outside for my long run today, but it's cold and windy and it snowed another couple inches last night, so the roads are slippery. I think I'm gonna flip-flop the schedule, do an easy 5-8 on the treadmill today, and do my long run tomorrow instead. I guess than means I'll have to behave myself (relatively speaking) during the football game tonight.....or not.

Off now to start packing for Mexico (leaving Monday morning), then to the gym for an hour in the cardio theather. Hope they're playing a decent movie! Less than 11 hours 'til kickoff!!

GO PACK!!!

 

[Genedoc]

Update 3 days after deep tissue massage described here:

I actually had a hard time sleeping the night after my massage. Positions I typically find comfortable and relaxing really weren't, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, just very different. All of the muscles in my hips and leg felt like they were buzzing.

Next day, I felt like I'd been through a very vigorous workout. I was sore all over. Took the day off and did some light stretching, which felt great. The range of motion was noticeably different.

Two days after massage, I did a pretty strenuous workout focusing on the lower body. Every exercise I did felt completely different than they've ever felt before. I could actually feel abdominal muscles engaging and supporting while I was doing squats and lunges. My groin and hip flexors were actually working together. Most of the exercises I did, I used to feel all in my quads. I have/had a really hard time activating the glutes and hamstrings. Yesterday, all of those exercises fatigued muscles other than my quads. These muscles are underdeveloped as a result of having been not used properly for so long, so the results were that I was more fatigued than usual after a standard workout, and I was fatigued in completely new places.

This morning, I'm sore. Groin, glutes, hips...and nothing in the quads, which is awesome. I'm going out this morning for a short run. Should be interesting to how my legs respond/feel. So far, I'm a huge fan of the deep tissue work, I only wish I'd had my problems diagnosed years ago.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Update 3 days after deep tissue massage described here:

I actually had a hard time sleeping the night after my massage. Positions I typically find comfortable and relaxing really weren't, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, just very different. All of the muscles in my hips and leg felt like they were buzzing.

Next day, I felt like I'd been through a very vigorous workout. I was sore all over. Took the day off and did some light stretching, which felt great. The range of motion was noticeably different.

Two days after massage, I did a pretty strenuous workout focusing on the lower body. Every exercise I did felt completely different than they've ever felt before. I could actually feel abdominal muscles engaging and supporting while I was doing squats and lunges. My groin and hip flexors were actually working together. Most of the exercises I did, I used to feel all in my quads. I have/had a really hard time activating the glutes and hamstrings. Yesterday, all of those exercises fatigued muscles other than my quads. These muscles are underdeveloped as a result of having been not used properly for so long, so the results were that I was more fatigued than usual after a standard workout, and I was fatigued in completely new places.

This morning, I'm sore. Groin, glutes, hips...and nothing in the quads, which is awesome. I'm going out this morning for a short run. Should be interesting to how my legs respond/feel. So far, I'm a huge fan of the deep tissue work, I only wish I'd had my problems diagnosed years ago.

Hey Doc, have you discussed integrating swimming as part of the PT/recovery? It would seem like this would be a good fit. Used be using and conditioning the muscles you are treating, while in a non-impact way. My next workout after any tri or long training day is in the pool. Slower swims are excellent recovery exercises for me. After a week of work travel next week, I am also going to start 60 days of unlimited yoga. I have lingering soreness all over due to prior sports injuries and just being plain old and I want to see if a couple months of learning will give me long term benefits.

 

[Genedoc]

Update 3 days after deep tissue massage described here:

I actually had a hard time sleeping the night after my massage. Positions I typically find comfortable and relaxing really weren't, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, just very different. All of the muscles in my hips and leg felt like they were buzzing.

Next day, I felt like I'd been through a very vigorous workout. I was sore all over. Took the day off and did some light stretching, which felt great. The range of motion was noticeably different.

Two days after massage, I did a pretty strenuous workout focusing on the lower body. Every exercise I did felt completely different than they've ever felt before. I could actually feel abdominal muscles engaging and supporting while I was doing squats and lunges. My groin and hip flexors were actually working together. Most of the exercises I did, I used to feel all in my quads. I have/had a really hard time activating the glutes and hamstrings. Yesterday, all of those exercises fatigued muscles other than my quads. These muscles are underdeveloped as a result of having been not used properly for so long, so the results were that I was more fatigued than usual after a standard workout, and I was fatigued in completely new places.

This morning, I'm sore. Groin, glutes, hips...and nothing in the quads, which is awesome. I'm going out this morning for a short run. Should be interesting to how my legs respond/feel. So far, I'm a huge fan of the deep tissue work, I only wish I'd had my problems diagnosed years ago.

Hey Doc, have you discussed integrating swimming as part of the PT/recovery? It would seem like this would be a good fit. Used be using and conditioning the muscles you are treating, while in a non-impact way. My next workout after any tri or long training day is in the pool. Slower swims are excellent recovery exercises for me. After a week of work travel next week, I am also going to start 60 days of unlimited yoga. I have lingering soreness all over due to prior sports injuries and just being plain old and I want to see if a couple months of learning will give me long term benefits.

Yep. Heading into the pool early next week. Finally got the gear and pool access squared away.Good luck w/ the yoga. Big fan of both yoga and Pilates as parts of whole body training. It's taken a couple of years to undo the damage I did as a young man adding mass without balance.

 

[prosopis]

I am very glad I repeated the week of training. I did the long run today of 8 miles and my HR was improved by 3 beats and my avg pace imp by 5 seconds. I feel like I am back on track and I will now proceed as planned. I hope I remember this next year. I really let the holidays be an excuse to hurt my plan. I have no one to blame but myself and I hope I can avoid this next year.

The 8 miles felt great today. I felt like I could have kept going for quite a while. It was fun.

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

Ran 4 miles 5x this week and also broke 30 minutes for the first time in a 5k (29:20). Still no where near most of you guys but I am improving.

 

[2Young2BBald]

5 mile YakTrax'd snow run today that was perfect. Plowed snow, drifts and no one out there but me! Capped a decent 7 days where I rode 35 miles on Sunday, swam 2500 yards Monday, ran 5 on the dreadmill Wednesday, swam only 2000 yards on Thursday due to some foot & calf cramps and then today's run. I think I am going to go planless until March and then come up with a HIM hybrid plan that will ready me for mostly sprints, but with a trail 1/2 marathon in early May. I think this might be my long event of the year. I am a bit worried about a .7 mile swim on leg 7 of a 10 leg survival triathlon. BUT, I think it would be fun to do an event with that many legs in which you have to swim with your running gear.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Sand, if you're not currently doing any speedwork, I agree that now probably isn't the best time to start. I'd suggest just adding some strides to the end of some of your runs. See above.

Not much speedwork. I have been trying mostly to just up volume a good bit. Last year I died about mile 10, just not enough fitness to go long. I eschewed fast work this time around for the most part to try and make sure I could hold for 13.1.I will admit to being a bit intimidated with the thought of going out and doing training runs in the 8:10-8:20 range and then expecting that this will result in 7:25s on race day. Not sure why. Managed 7:42s last year on less fitness.

Are you doing your other weekly runs at or beyond race pace? If so, you should be fine.

Ummm. No. I've done a mile or two at 7:00 pace, but mostly the paces have been 7:30-8:20. 8-8:20 more common than anything else.

You're faster than me so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd try to work in more race-pace running over the next few weeks. This could be a good time to do some of the long-run workouts that we were talking about a page or so ago, like doing the last third or so of your long runs at race pace. You have three really good training weeks left --- that's plenty for this type of thing. If nothing else it builds confidence a little.___________

Genedoc -- Thanks for the updates on your massage therapy. I've thought about trying a sports massage, not for PT but really just for recuperative purposes, so I'm interested in seeing how this goes for you. I don't think I have access to the same kind of quality care that you're getting though.

 

[Sand]

Sand, if you're not currently doing any speedwork, I agree that now probably isn't the best time to start. I'd suggest just adding some strides to the end of some of your runs. See above.

Not much speedwork. I have been trying mostly to just up volume a good bit. Last year I died about mile 10, just not enough fitness to go long. I eschewed fast work this time around for the most part to try and make sure I could hold for 13.1.I will admit to being a bit intimidated with the thought of going out and doing training runs in the 8:10-8:20 range and then expecting that this will result in 7:25s on race day. Not sure why. Managed 7:42s last year on less fitness.

Are you doing your other weekly runs at or beyond race pace? If so, you should be fine.

Ummm. No. I've done a mile or two at 7:00 pace, but mostly the paces have been 7:30-8:20. 8-8:20 more common than anything else.

You're faster than me so take this with a grain of salt, but I'd try to work in more race-pace running over the next few weeks. This could be a good time to do some of the long-run workouts that we were talking about a page or so ago, like doing the last third or so of your long runs at race pace. You have three really good training weeks left --- that's plenty for this type of thing. If nothing else it builds confidence a little.

10k run today at local park at an 8:11/mile pace. 675 feet of climbing, so reasonably hilly. My calculator says that is the equivalent of a 7:26/mile pace on a flat course. And I managed to twist my ankle pretty good on the back half - hopefully it will heal up after a good night's sleep. That's theoretically closer than I have been in a while.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Ran 4 miles 5x this week and also broke 30 minutes for the first time in a 5k (29:20). Still no where near most of you guys but I am improving.

Great job! I've run many 5K's around 30 minutes. You are right....you need to start somewhere and just keep on working on improving YOU. Take what you can from this thread and the collective wisdom and utilize it to improve your training/pace/etc. Good luck!

 

[FUBAR]

10k run today at local park at an 8:11/mile pace. 675 feet of climbing, so reasonably hilly. My calculator says that is the equivalent of a 7:26/mile pace on a flat course. And I managed to twist my ankle pretty good on the back half - hopefully it will heal up after a good night's sleep. That's theoretically closer than I have been in a while.

good run! But watch out for that ankle - don't push it the next couple days.

 

[Ned]

Last minute change of on-call support at work and it's go time for me. I'm suddenly a huge bundle of nerves, but its

 

[Darrinll40]

After just two sessions of lunges my quads were really barking last night, but I expected that. I went out for 2 miles this morning despite the quad ache and after mile 1 the pain lessened dramatically. More lunges and other exercises tonight and tomorrow.

 

[BassNBrew]

5 mile YakTrax'd snow run today that was perfect. Plowed snow, drifts and no one out there but me! Capped a decent 7 days where I rode 35 miles on Sunday, swam 2500 yards Monday, ran 5 on the dreadmill Wednesday, swam only 2000 yards on Thursday due to some foot & calf cramps and then today's run. I think I am going to go planless until March and then come up with a HIM hybrid plan that will ready me for mostly sprints, but with a trail 1/2 marathon in early May. I think this might be my long event of the year. I am a bit worried about a .7 mile swim on leg 7 of a 10 leg survival triathlon. BUT, I think it would be fun to do an event with that many legs in which you have to swim with your running gear.

Brutal entry fee, but looks like a cool event.

 

[BassNBrew]

13.13 miles @ 8:44 pace on the Blue Ridge Parkway. Pretty much matched my flatland 1/2 pr and beat my parkway 1/2 mary pr by about 4 min.

 

[Sand]

5 mile YakTrax'd snow run today that was perfect. Plowed snow, drifts and no one out there but me! Capped a decent 7 days where I rode 35 miles on Sunday, swam 2500 yards Monday, ran 5 on the dreadmill Wednesday, swam only 2000 yards on Thursday due to some foot & calf cramps and then today's run. I think I am going to go planless until March and then come up with a HIM hybrid plan that will ready me for mostly sprints, but with a trail 1/2 marathon in early May. I think this might be my long event of the year. I am a bit worried about a .7 mile swim on leg 7 of a 10 leg survival triathlon. BUT, I think it would be fun to do an event with that many legs in which you have to swim with your running gear.

Brutal entry fee, but looks like a cool event.

The entry fee is cheap! This is similar to the Survival of the Shawangunks tri, but a 1/3 of the price. Looks way cool, 2Y. I'd be real concerned about getting in, though. Looks like one of those things that sells out really quickly. Shawanguns sells out very quickly.

 

[2Young2BBald]

5 mile YakTrax'd snow run today that was perfect. Plowed snow, drifts and no one out there but me! Capped a decent 7 days where I rode 35 miles on Sunday, swam 2500 yards Monday, ran 5 on the dreadmill Wednesday, swam only 2000 yards on Thursday due to some foot & calf cramps and then today's run. I think I am going to go planless until March and then come up with a HIM hybrid plan that will ready me for mostly sprints, but with a trail 1/2 marathon in early May. I think this might be my long event of the year. I am a bit worried about a .7 mile swim on leg 7 of a 10 leg survival triathlon. BUT, I think it would be fun to do an event with that many legs in which you have to swim with your running gear.

Brutal entry fee, but looks like a cool event.

The entry fee is cheap! This is similar to the Survival of the Shawangunks tri, but a 1/3 of the price. Looks way cool, 2Y. I'd be real concerned about getting in, though. Looks like one of those things that sells out really quickly. Shawanguns sells out very quickly.

You'd think so, but it is the week after Steelhead (a 70.3 event here in MI) and most of the hardcore tri folks here are in recovery mode. I think it is a steal too based on the logistics, support, etc. I saw that since 70.3 bought out Muncie, the price went from the $160 I paid last year there to $235 now. I want to see if I can find a buddy or two to do this. If not, I'll likely register by the end of the month.

 

[tri-man 47]

Lotta good running (and lunging)! ...everybody working their own pace.

---

30 miles for me this weekend in some near-single digit windchills.

Sat: 12 miles, with 10 miles at sub-marathon pace (8:03/mile, HR = 154)

Sun: 18 miles (8:57/mile, HR = 142)

No pains or problems, just the usual stiffness following heavy miles. This put me at 54 miles for the week! I think I hit 55/week once or twice in previous marathon training a couple of years ago, but never this early in the training. So this is good!

 

[Genedoc]

Getting ready for my first ever tri in April, I went out for my first run in ~ 10 years today. I mapped out a nice 3.6 mile route around the neighborhood. Did it in about 42 minutes, and it was about half running and half walking. Joints feel good, lungs feel good, legs need conditioning. Very different muscles used than cycling. On the bike, it's easy to recruit hip flexors on the up stroke to give the quads a rest. Endurance is good from the cycling - breathing and HR return to comfortable very quickly when I'd start walking. Anaerobic needs improvement. Overall, I think it was a good first outing training for my first tri. Hitting the pool tomorrow.

 

[Ned]

35th PSCI Icicle Ten Miler

It was a crazy and scattered morning... I didn't know if I was running or not until around 7:30 this morning when someone volunteered to cover for me at work today. I got my usual coffee/bagel in me and packed up and flew up to center city Wilmington. I was a mess, of course and couldn't really settle down. The registration was inside the local Y where about 400 runners were all crammed in the building trying to stay warm (~27 degrees with 10-15mph winds this morning). I was one of the last of the pre-registered to check in at about 8:30.

I took a half mile jog back to my car to drop off the extra stuff and did my usual warm-up/stretch routine. Then it hit me - I needed to drop a deuce. Bad. I ran inside the Y and couldn't find a bathroom with all of the sardines in there trying to stay warm. It's 8:45 and I gotta take a crap. I finally found a little kids bathroom on the bottom floor and purged a 3lb baby in about 6.2 seconds. Insane relief. I paid for it with having to start in the far back of the pack, but thank god I got it out.

Just like the Philly half, my Garmin's mileage was off. This time I noticed it right away in the first mile. It clocked me in on the first mile about .14 before the actual first mile placard. From there on I was floating around 0.14-0.18 off, so something must've happened with the satellite signal and the office buildings. Just like every other race this year, my HR was elevated at the start. I'm given up on using my training #s to guide me in race conditions. I'm too much of a hyper person to really relax before a race. I just can't do it. In the first 2 miles I wanted to try to settle down and let my legs wake up a bit. It was relatively flat, but the 1st mile had some decent downhills to it. I actually felt a little winded after the first 2, which spooked me going into the majority of the hills.

2.5-5 was all uphill for the most part. According to the Garmin it was a total ascent of 659ft. I honestly don't know if that's accurate or a lot of hills, but it sure felt like a good climb. Most of this was thru the local park with all of the roads still covered in an inch of ice. Now I get why it's called the Icicle. Word of caution - Gu in the eye burns. After eating it, I was holding on to the packet until the water table and apparently got a little bit on my glove. Later wiped my eye with that finger, and got it in my eye. Ouch.

Miles 5-9 were pretty good with rolling hills. What went up went right back down. At around mile 6 I started to really hit a groove and felt like something good was going to happen. Not much else happened here.

At ~9.25 was the steepest climb of the race. I love to look ahead on the course and could see the hill coming with quite a few people walking on the right - Uh oh. When I got to the base I was already at full speed and said #### it. Picked out a couple of guys up ahead and just went for it. I focused on pumping my arms and driving my knees and picked off quite a few people. I was so gassed at the top I was wheezing like an 80yr old smoker. I cannot believe how well I recovered from that hill, but by the time I hit 9.75 or so I was in full sprint picking people off to the finish. God that felt great.

All in all, I am pretty siked with my run. My only regret is I feel like I probably left a little out there on the first 5. But, I hit my goal of a sub 1:25 and can't be any happier!

Splits

1-7:47 (probably more like an 8:30ish)

2-8:30

3-8:45

4-8:44

5-8:37 (with water stop)

6-8:16

7-8:13

8-8:19

9-7:59

10-8:07 (with that huge hill, wow) my HR hit 189 on that hill

extra 0.18 on garmin was worth 1:14

Official chip time was 1:24:35 which was only a second off my Garmin.

 

[Sand]

35th PSCI Icicle Ten Miler

But, I hit my goal of a sub 1:25 and can't be any happier!

That sounds like a super hilly course - you should link that run. 650ft. hill? Oof.

----

On my end did my 12 miler (only 11.8, actually). At about mile 3 I started with some ab muscle cramping. Figured it was from the hard run yesterday and ignored it. At about mile 6 (you know, the furthest point from home) I started getting some substantial stomach cramping. The suffering began. The wheels really fell off about mile 10 and as badly as I needed to get home I was really hurting. I got home the shortest way possible - thus only 11.8, and then emptied about 1/2 my body weight into the porcelain throne. Only managed a (brutal) 8:45/mile or so.

I kept thinking of this thread and the bush adventures here in the same situation, but there was little place to stop until I was close to home and at that point just went ahead and ran it in. Sorry - no good stories today.

Silver lining: My twisted ankle from yesterday was just fine. Didn't feel it. Given my history of ankle injury (legendary) it would take a lot more than a little twist to register. Most of those nerves have been beaten senseless years ago.

 

[prosopis]

35th PSCI Icicle Ten Miler

Then it hit me - I needed to drop a deuce. Bad. I ran inside the Y and couldn't find a bathroom with all of the sardines in there trying to stay warm. It's 8:45 and I gotta take a crap. I finally found a little kids bathroom on the bottom floor and purged a 3lb baby in about 6.2 seconds. Insane relief.

Was it one of those little toilets with your knees poking your eyes when sitting?

Nice race I dont know how you guys run in that cold. I have second thoughts about running if it is below 55.

 

[Ned]

35th PSCI Icicle Ten Miler

But, I hit my goal of a sub 1:25 and can't be any happier!

That sounds like a super hilly course - you should link that run. 650ft. hill? Oof.

----

On my end did my 12 miler (only 11.8, actually). At about mile 3 I started with some ab muscle cramping. Figured it was from the hard run yesterday and ignored it. At about mile 6 (you know, the furthest point from home) I started getting some substantial stomach cramping. The suffering began. The wheels really fell off about mile 10 and as badly as I needed to get home I was really hurting. I got home the shortest way possible - thus only 11.8, and then emptied about 1/2 my body weight into the porcelain throne. Only managed a (brutal) 8:45/mile or so.

I kept thinking of this thread and the bush adventures here in the same situation, but there was little place to stop until I was close to home and at that point just went ahead and ran it in. Sorry - no good stories today.

Silver lining: My twisted ankle from yesterday was just fine. Didn't feel it. Given my history of ankle injury (legendary) it would take a lot more than a little twist to register. Most of those nerves have been beaten senseless years ago.

here's my garmin dataI always question how accurate this really is. Those #s sound big, but I can't pretend I really know. I certainly felt it from 2.5-5.

Great news on the ankle. Glad you 'held it together' and didn't #### yourself.

 

[Ned]

35th PSCI Icicle Ten Miler

Then it hit me - I needed to drop a deuce. Bad. I ran inside the Y and couldn't find a bathroom with all of the sardines in there trying to stay warm. It's 8:45 and I gotta take a crap. I finally found a little kids bathroom on the bottom floor and purged a 3lb baby in about 6.2 seconds. Insane relief.

Was it one of those little toilets with your knees poking your eyes when sitting?

Nice race I dont know how you guys run in that cold. I have second thoughts about running if it is below 55.

It was definitely a shorter toilet, but I've seen smaller. I'm just thankful I figured it out 15 mins before the gun and not 15 after.

 

[2Young2BBald]

35th PSCI Icicle Ten Miler

Then it hit me - I needed to drop a deuce. Bad. I ran inside the Y and couldn't find a bathroom with all of the sardines in there trying to stay warm. It's 8:45 and I gotta take a crap. I finally found a little kids bathroom on the bottom floor and purged a 3lb baby in about 6.2 seconds. Insane relief.

Was it one of those little toilets with your knees poking your eyes when sitting?

Nice race I dont know how you guys run in that cold. I have second thoughts about running if it is below 55.

My people and I call these right sized. (Can't stand when my feet don't touch the floor).WTG Ned!!! I miss racing and don't have anything planned until St. Pats, might have to look for something to fill the void until then.

 

[gruecd]

Lotta good running (and lunging)! ...everybody working their own pace.

---

30 miles for me this weekend in some near-single digit windchills.

Sat: 12 miles, with 10 miles at sub-marathon pace (8:03/mile, HR = 154)

Sun: 18 miles (8:57/mile, HR = 142)

No pains or problems, just the usual stiffness following heavy miles. This put me at 54 miles for the week! I think I hit 55/week once or twice in previous marathon training a couple of years ago, but never this early in the training. So this is good!

Damn, tri-man. Nice work. I did 8 yesterday, and I was planning on doing 15-18 today, but I decided to blow it off after doing a bit too much celebrating last night.

Not too worried about it, though, as I'm basically planning on treating this coming week as a recovery week anyway. Leaving bright and early tomorrow morning for Playa del Carmen, and I won't be back 'til next Saturday. I'm sure I'll run while I'm down there, but probably nothing too long.

Taking the laptop, but I'm not sure how often I'll be online. Hope you all have a great week, and I'll "see" you next weekend.....just in time for another big Packers win!!!

 

[prosopis]

Lotta good running (and lunging)! ...everybody working their own pace.

---

30 miles for me this weekend in some near-single digit windchills.

Sat: 12 miles, with 10 miles at sub-marathon pace (8:03/mile, HR = 154)

Sun: 18 miles (8:57/mile, HR = 142)

No pains or problems, just the usual stiffness following heavy miles. This put me at 54 miles for the week! I think I hit 55/week once or twice in previous marathon training a couple of years ago, but never this early in the training. So this is good!

Damn, tri-man. Nice work. I did 8 yesterday, and I was planning on doing 15-18 today, but I decided to blow it off after doing a bit too much celebrating last night.

Not too worried about it, though, as I'm basically planning on treating this coming week as a recovery week anyway. Leaving bright and early tomorrow morning for Playa del Carmen, and I won't be back 'til next Saturday. I'm sure I'll run while I'm down there, but probably nothing too long.

Taking the laptop, but I'm not sure how often I'll be online. Hope you all have a great week, and I'll "see" you next weekend.....just in time for another big Packers win!!!

Have fun

 

[tri-man 47]

Not too worried about it, though, as I'm basically planning on treating this coming week as a recovery week anyway. Leaving bright and early tomorrow morning for Playa del Carmen, and I won't be back 'til next Saturday. I'm sure I'll run while I'm down there, but probably nothing too long.

It's Mexico ...come back with your head attached to your shoulders.Ned - nice race!!!

 

[Sand]

Not too worried about it, though, as I'm basically planning on treating this coming week as a recovery week anyway. Leaving bright and early tomorrow morning for Playa del Carmen, and I won't be back 'til next Saturday. I'm sure I'll run while I'm down there, but probably nothing too long.

It's Mexico ...come back with your head attached to your shoulders.

I foresee a lot of running in his near future.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Great work everyone. Lots of great workouts being put in.

Ned - Great race report.

Tri-man - great workouts. You are going to have a great couple of races.

---------------------

Mini-vacation is over and I am starting back fresh again tomorrow. I think I am going to do the 12/55 Pfitz plan this time as it is less miles and just something that seems right. I may add some miles for me. It really does not start for three weeks yet, but I am going ot repeat the first week the next couple and get ready for it.

I am feeling really good right now and my legs are feeling refreshed. Most importantly, I am feeling pretty good about my mental state. I am enjoying life while not running, but not as much as I do when I run. Just something I was missing, by not calling myself a runner for a week.

Have a great day all.

 

[Ned]

Whew, my legs are sore. Going to do some more yoga today to get some therapeutic stretching. Hoping to start the Higdon plan tomorrow (just a 3 miler).

One interesting tidbit I didn't realize until this morning - I had a whopping 3 long runs between the Philly half and yesterday's 10 miler. I can't believe I ran like that with so little long training.

 

[The_Man]

Ned - great race!

Sand, Darrin, Prosopis, 2Y2BB and others - lot of great workouts in here, especially considering the time of year

Grue - have a great time!

PMB - glad you're back!

Pfitz Chronicles, Entry 3

Did my first "recovery" run of the program. Felt weird to be doing a recovery after an off-day, but I'm just going to do what I'm told (with one exception, to be discussed below). I ran at as close to the recommended HR as I could - 130 for me, which felt absurdly slow. Ended up doing 4 miles at a 9:48 pace with a 133 HR.

I tried to focus on form. In particular, my left hamstring and calf are my weak spot. It's where I got hurt last summer and it's the area that feels fatigue during hard runs. So I tried to "isolate" that area and really concentrate on stressing it with each stride. Because the run wasn't challenging, I felt like it was an opportunity to strengthen my weakest part. The other thing I kept in mind was that Saturday's run wasn't about Saturday's run -- it was about getting myself stronger and fitter for the only run that really matters, on May 15.

Pfitz says these runs should leave your legs feeling like you're gaining strength throughout them, rather than having strength slowly leak out of the legs. Happy to say that at the end of the run, when I climbed the stairs to the shower, instead of the usual leg aches and fatigue, I did actually feel stronger, with a bounce in my step.

Yesterday was 12 miles. Pfitz calls for long runs to be at 80 to 90 percent of your marathon goal pace. This is definitely faster than what I've done in the past, which was to run long runs as easy as I possibly could. Ended up doing the 12 at an 8:29 pace (with a 145 average HR) - 8:26 would be 90 percent of GMP, so I was at the very fast end of the range. Probably a little too fast - my legs are feeling it today, and I've still got 17 weeks of increasingly tough training ahead.

Felt great while running though - the best I've felt in a couple of months. One big difference was that I ran later in the day, so I ate a couple of hearty high-carb snacks in the a.m. and took sports drink with me. Usually I run first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and never fuel on runs of less than 12 miles. This raises a question for me. I've heard that if you don't usually fuel, your body learns to burn fat much more efficiently, and then when you do add carbs, you get a huge boost. I definitely got that boost yesterday. But is it a myth that you only get that boost when you're not used to regular fueling? Maybe by not fueling, all I'm doing is making things harder on myself and not optimizing my workouts.

Today - off day. 8 for 8 on Pfitz!

Tomorrow - calls for 8 miles with 10 x 100 sprints at the end. I am not doing the sprints. My old body is not built for speed - speedwork got me hurt the last time I tried it. Not doing these sprints is the only deviation I plan. Already looking ahead with fear to Sunday's 13 miles with 8 a goal marathon pace.

 

[Ned]

Tomorrow - calls for 8 miles with 10 x 100 sprints at the end. I am not doing the sprints. My old body is not built for speed - speedwork got me hurt the last time I tried it. Not doing these sprints is the only deviation I plan. Already looking ahead with fear to Sunday's 13 miles with 8 a goal marathon pace.

Good stuff! On the above, maybe substitute 10x striders instead? Something where you can open it up a bit, but not full on sprint it. Maybe 400m speed? I am a believer in getting some sort of speed work in to increase your actual speed.

 

[Lehigh98]

After having to shut down after my first 1/2 marathon for a painfully long time, starting back up again today.

Current target is a new PR (under 1:47) on my second 1/2 marathon (same one as last time) on May 1st.

Just mapped out my workouts for the next 15 weeks and loaded them into my Garmin.

Cleaned out the basement over the holidays and set up our new Sole F80 and P90X cross-training area.

The boys seemed healed up from the vasectomy last Thursday and hoping the ankle tendonitis stays away.

My problem in the past has been doing too much too soon and hurting something early so need to be careful.

No more excuses, time to get running.

(Speaking of boxing, I use the Rocky IV training montage YouTube clip to get into the mood when I don't feel like working out... am I the only one that does something like this?)

 

[Third]

Wow, lots of great running the past few days. Nice work, guys.

I need a little feedback. Up until yesterday, I felt really confident with my training and felt like things were heading in the right direction. This is my first marathon cycle, and I've only been running for about a year and a half, so this is uncharted territory for me. My weekly mileage has been in the 32-40 range for the past 2 months.

I had 16 yesterday. It was a struggle...really a struggle. I finished at about :45 slower than MP - which is fine, but did not feel that I could run another 100 yards (much less 10 miles) when I finished. I'm trying to keep things in perspective and realize that everyone has a bad day. A few things that might have factored in: I have not had a step-back long run in 3 weeks, so my last three Sunday long runs have been 14, 15, and 16 (with 6-8 on Saturday, as well). I probably should have just run 10 in the middle week. (Side note - the 14 and 15 were difficult but nothing like yesterday).

Anyway, it was a mental letdown to struggle so badly with 16 at this point in my training cycle. I have 10, 18, 10, 18-20, 8, and marathon left for the next 6 Sundays.

Has any first-timer hit a point like this where you started doubting whether you would be ready? Based on mileage and training and with a good taper should I be ready to go on 3/6?

 

[Third]

Follow up to the my last post:

Two things that really made yesterday's run even worse were gels and underwear.

The underwear question was asked not long ago and the response generally was "shorts w/ liners." I've done that and tend to have problems on longer runs with the liner digging into the crease of my leg. Also, that doesn't solve the problem when I wear tights or a thermal layer under my shorts. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good pair of running briefs? I had cotton on yesterday and it wore me out.

On gels, I've been experimenting with a few on my long runs (Gu, Powerade, Accel), but I'm not having any luck finding something that doesn't upset my stomach. I'm taking with water, but I still fight through about 15 minutes of semi-nausea and an indigestion like feeling. Maybe I'm not taking them with enough water - not sure.

I talked to a very knowledgeable owner of a local running store and he said the gel blocks tend to be easier on the stomach because (according to what doctor/runner told him) the chewing process stimulates saliva which begins the digestive process before it hits your stomach. That said, I find it difficult to chew those darn things as you run. Anyone have similar experience with finding the right gel/gu?

Lot of whining for me today. Just trying to rely on the collective wisdom to better prepare. Thanks, guys.

 

[Sand]

Follow up to the my last post:

Two things that really made yesterday's run even worse were gels and underwear.

The underwear question was asked not long ago and the response generally was "shorts w/ liners." I've done that and tend to have problems on longer runs with the liner digging into the crease of my leg. Also, that doesn't solve the problem when I wear tights or a thermal layer under my shorts. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good pair of running briefs? I had cotton on yesterday and it wore me out.

On gels, I've been experimenting with a few on my long runs (Gu, Powerade, Accel), but I'm not having any luck finding something that doesn't upset my stomach. I'm taking with water, but I still fight through about 15 minutes of semi-nausea and an indigestion like feeling. Maybe I'm not taking them with enough water - not sure.

I talked to a very knowledgeable owner of a local running store and he said the gel blocks tend to be easier on the stomach because (according to what doctor/runner told him) the chewing process stimulates saliva which begins the digestive process before it hits your stomach. That said, I find it difficult to chew those darn things as you run. Anyone have similar experience with finding the right gel/gu?

Lot of whining for me today. Just trying to rely on the collective wisdom to better prepare. Thanks, guys.

Have you tried application of Bodyglide in the affected areas before running?Yeah - Gus and shot blocks are vomit material. Disgusting. I make do just fine with orange slices (the candy) and Jelly Bellies.

 

[Genedoc]

Follow up to the my last post:

Two things that really made yesterday's run even worse were gels and underwear.

The underwear question was asked not long ago and the response generally was "shorts w/ liners." I've done that and tend to have problems on longer runs with the liner digging into the crease of my leg. Also, that doesn't solve the problem when I wear tights or a thermal layer under my shorts. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good pair of running briefs? I had cotton on yesterday and it wore me out.

On gels, I've been experimenting with a few on my long runs (Gu, Powerade, Accel), but I'm not having any luck finding something that doesn't upset my stomach. I'm taking with water, but I still fight through about 15 minutes of semi-nausea and an indigestion like feeling. Maybe I'm not taking them with enough water - not sure.

I talked to a very knowledgeable owner of a local running store and he said the gel blocks tend to be easier on the stomach because (according to what doctor/runner told him) the chewing process stimulates saliva which begins the digestive process before it hits your stomach. That said, I find it difficult to chew those darn things as you run. Anyone have similar experience with finding the right gel/gu?

Lot of whining for me today. Just trying to rely on the collective wisdom to better prepare. Thanks, guys.

The gels are among the most disgusting things I've ever tried to force down. I almost crashed my bike on a long ride last year when I tried my first gel. Horrible. The only gel I could find that wasn't completely wretched was HammerGel, and it wasn't exactly tasty, just not nauseating. I concur that the shot blocks are easier to tolerate. I don't even really chew them, I suck on them and let them dissolve so they don't get stuck in my teeth. They're much better than the gels in my experience. As for chaffing, I avoid cotton at all costs. Socks, pants...no cotton. Get something wicking than keep the regions dry. Luckily I've never had problems chaffing even on long rides, but friends who do swear by chamois cream.

 

[Ned]

Funny, I'm a big gel fan. Love the chocolate rage Gu's. I couldn't imagine having to chew something while keeping a good breathing rhythm.

 

[Genedoc]

Funny, I'm a big gel fan. Love the chocolate rage Gu's. I couldn't imagine having to chew something while keeping a good breathing rhythm.

Maybe you can develop a taste/tolerance for them, but like third, I almost puked last year with the 3-4 different brands of gel I tried. HammerGel was tolerable. Of course, YMMV.

 

[Third]

Funny, I'm a big gel fan. Love the chocolate rage Gu's. I couldn't imagine having to chew something while keeping a good breathing rhythm.

Maybe you can develop a taste/tolerance for them, but like third, I almost puked last year with the 3-4 different brands of gel I tried. HammerGel was tolerable. Of course, YMMV.

And just to be clear, it's not the taste that bothers me. (I had a Raspberry Creme Powerade gel yesterday that tasted pretty good). It makes me nauseous once it hits my stomach.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Ned -- Nice race. Bathroom accomodations are always critical on race day.

Genedoc -- Sounds like you're off to a good start. I don't do much biking, but I think you're right that you're using a different muscle group. And obviously there's a lot more contact with running. Nice job.

Sand -- You might want to review your diet from the past day or so to see if there's anything in there that could have contributed to your GI issues. I've learned the hard way that I can't tolerate anything high in lactose (e.g. ice cream) within a day or two of a long run.

The_Man -- Good write-up. It sounds like Pfitz has you doing your long runs quite a bit faster than what I'm used to.

____________________

Today was the first day of "official" marathon training -- 6 miles at MP. I don't know what my actual PMP is right now. For now, I'm going to train for a 3:50 and see how it goes. Anyway, today was obviously no problem and it was fun to get out there and be "back in training" again even though it kind of feels like I never stopped training.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Has any first-timer hit a point like this where you started doubting whether you would be ready?

Yeah, like every long I did after 15 miles or so. The standard advice people always give to first-timers is that your only goal for your first marathon should be to finish. When your long run is in the 8-10 mile range, its hard to understand that, but as you get into the 15-16 mile area and start to encounter things like glycogen depletion for the first time, you learn why that's good advice. Stick with your training and know that you're in good position to finish your first marathon and that you're guaranteed a PR. You can worry about time goals for your next race.

The underwear question was asked not long ago and the response generally was "shorts w/ liners." I've done that and tend to have problems on longer runs with the liner digging into the crease of my leg. Also, that doesn't solve the problem when I wear tights or a thermal layer under my shorts. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good pair of running briefs? I had cotton on yesterday and it wore me out.

Cotton is awful. Stick with synthetics -- including shorts with liners -- and use Body Glide for areas where you chafe. On especially long runs (like 16+), I always need it on my inner thighs.

On gels, I've been experimenting with a few on my long runs (Gu, Powerade, Accel), but I'm not having any luck finding something that doesn't upset my stomach. I'm taking with water, but I still fight through about 15 minutes of semi-nausea and an indigestion like feeling. Maybe I'm not taking them with enough water - not sure.I talked to a very knowledgeable owner of a local running store and he said the gel blocks tend to be easier on the stomach because (according to what doctor/runner told him) the chewing process stimulates saliva which begins the digestive process before it hits your stomach. That said, I find it difficult to chew those darn things as you run. Anyone have similar experience with finding the right gel/gu?

You are wise to be experimenting. If you don't like gels, don't use them. The consistency and intense taste can be tough to stomach, I agree. I'm a huge fan of Shot Bloks and I enjoy slowly chewing them while I run, but if you don't like them, don't use them. Some people use gummi bears or honey as fuel. Maybe give something like that a try?

 

[Third]

Has any first-timer hit a point like this where you started doubting whether you would be ready?

Yeah, like every long I did after 15 miles or so. The standard advice people always give to first-timers is that your only goal for your first marathon should be to finish. When your long run is in the 8-10 mile range, its hard to understand that, but as you get into the 15-16 mile area and start to encounter things like glycogen depletion for the first time, you learn why that's good advice. Stick with your training and know that you're in good position to finish your first marathon and that you're guaranteed a PR. You can worry about time goals for your next race.

The underwear question was asked not long ago and the response generally was "shorts w/ liners." I've done that and tend to have problems on longer runs with the liner digging into the crease of my leg. Also, that doesn't solve the problem when I wear tights or a thermal layer under my shorts. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good pair of running briefs? I had cotton on yesterday and it wore me out.

Cotton is awful. Stick with synthetics -- including shorts with liners -- and use Body Glide for areas where you chafe. On especially long runs (like 16+), I always need it on my inner thighs.

On gels, I've been experimenting with a few on my long runs (Gu, Powerade, Accel), but I'm not having any luck finding something that doesn't upset my stomach. I'm taking with water, but I still fight through about 15 minutes of semi-nausea and an indigestion like feeling. Maybe I'm not taking them with enough water - not sure.I talked to a very knowledgeable owner of a local running store and he said the gel blocks tend to be easier on the stomach because (according to what doctor/runner told him) the chewing process stimulates saliva which begins the digestive process before it hits your stomach. That said, I find it difficult to chew those darn things as you run. Anyone have similar experience with finding the right gel/gu?

You are wise to be experimenting. If you don't like gels, don't use them. The consistency and intense taste can be tough to stomach, I agree. I'm a huge fan of Shot Bloks and I enjoy slowly chewing them while I run, but if you don't like them, don't use them. Some people use gummi bears or honey as fuel. Maybe give something like that a try?

Thanks for the advice on all fronts, Ivan. Great stuff here - I appreciate you taking the time to respond to each issue.

 

[BassNBrew]

Follow up to the my last post:

Two things that really made yesterday's run even worse were gels and underwear.

The underwear question was asked not long ago and the response generally was "shorts w/ liners." I've done that and tend to have problems on longer runs with the liner digging into the crease of my leg. Also, that doesn't solve the problem when I wear tights or a thermal layer under my shorts. Does anyone have a suggestion for a good pair of running briefs? I had cotton on yesterday and it wore me out.

On gels, I've been experimenting with a few on my long runs (Gu, Powerade, Accel), but I'm not having any luck finding something that doesn't upset my stomach. I'm taking with water, but I still fight through about 15 minutes of semi-nausea and an indigestion like feeling. Maybe I'm not taking them with enough water - not sure.

I talked to a very knowledgeable owner of a local running store and he said the gel blocks tend to be easier on the stomach because (according to what doctor/runner told him) the chewing process stimulates saliva which begins the digestive process before it hits your stomach. That said, I find it difficult to chew those darn things as you run. Anyone have similar experience with finding the right gel/gu?

Lot of whining for me today. Just trying to rely on the collective wisdom to better prepare. Thanks, guys.

Underwear - I can't stand liners. Maybe it's because I haven't found the right short, but they don't offer much support. I usually wear a Jockey brand with these materials...Fabric Content: Body-91% polyester/9% Lycra® Spandex; Pouch-94% polyester/6% Lycra® Spandex. Gels - Try hammer gels. Much less sugar and glutten free.

 

[BassNBrew]

Felt great while running though - the best I've felt in a couple of months. One big difference was that I ran later in the day, so I ate a couple of hearty high-carb snacks in the a.m. and took sports drink with me. Usually I run first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and never fuel on runs of less than 12 miles. This raises a question for me. I've heard that if you don't usually fuel, your body learns to burn fat much more efficiently, and then when you do add carbs, you get a huge boost. I definitely got that boost yesterday. But is it a myth that you only get that boost when you're not used to regular fueling? Maybe by not fueling, all I'm doing is making things harder on myself and not optimizing my workouts.

I always seem to have better workouts later in the day. I usually don't fuel my body either for anything less than 2 hours. I've also been crashing around mile 9-10. Saturday I did a gel at mile 8 and 5 minutes later it felt like the turbo jets kicked in. I'll probably continue to fuel for anything over 1.25 hours. Much like you, I do think there's a benefit to going light on the water/fuel during training. I'd rather it not become a crutch I have to have and do think the body will adapt to using what it has available. One of the benefits of the long slow run is that you train your body to use fat reserves rather than burn off all your sugar reserves.

 

[BassNBrew]

Need some help with a training plan and a goal marathon pace. I'm planning on doing the Grandfather Mountain marathon (http://www.hopeformarrow.org/gmminfo.htm) on July the 9th. I will also be competing in the King of the Mountain competition which includes a 5 mile run on July 7 with an ascent of 1441 feet and a 65 mile (7000 ft climbing) bike race on July 8. Targeting the following schedule...

Now thru April 10 - focus on running speed and bike FTP with one 10+ mile run / wk except for race weeks

March 5 - 2/19/2 duathlon

April 9 - 2/19/2 dualthon

April 11 - Start 12 wk marathon training program

May 23 - Assualt on Mt. Mitchell Century bike

May 24 - 10-13 mile mountain training run

June 25 - Blood Sweat and Gears Century bike

June 26 - 13-18 mile mountain training run

June 27 to July 6 - taper

July 7 - 5 mile Bear

July 8 - 65 mile Grizzly

July 9 - Grandfather Mountain Marathon

Looking at using this marathon plan - http://hardybreed.com/training/training/

How do I establish a goal marathon pace for a mountain race? My training will be 75% flat land, 25% in the mountains. My best guess is to make the week one 13 mile run a time trail in the flats and use this to somehow establish a goal marathon pace. Anytime I'm in the mountains I'll add 30 secs / mile back onto the pace when I do an out and back and 60 secs / mile for anything with a significant net elevation gain???

I'm at a loss as to how to tackle this...

 

[Genedoc]

Need some help with a training plan and a goal marathon pace. I'm planning on doing the Grandfather Mountain marathon (http://www.hopeformarrow.org/gmminfo.htm) on July the 9th. I will also be competing in the King of the Mountain competition which includes a 5 mile run on July 7 with an ascent of 1441 feet and a 65 mile (7000 ft climbing) bike race on July 8. Targeting the following schedule...

Now thru April 10 - focus on running speed and bike FTP with one 10+ mile run / wk except for race weeks

March 5 - 2/19/2 duathlon

April 9 - 2/19/2 dualthon

April 11 - Start 12 wk marathon training program

May 23 - Assualt on Mt. Mitchell Century bike

May 24 - 10-13 mile mountain training run

June 25 - Blood Sweat and Gears Century bike

June 26 - 13-18 mile mountain training run

June 27 to July 6 - taper

July 7 - 5 mile Bear

July 8 - 65 mile Grizzly

July 9 - Grandfather Mountain Marathon

Looking at using this marathon plan - http://hardybreed.com/training/training/

How do I establish a goal marathon pace for a mountain race? My training will be 75% flat land, 25% in the mountains. My best guess is to make the week one 13 mile run a time trail in the flats and use this to somehow establish a goal marathon pace. Anytime I'm in the mountains I'll add 30 secs / mile back onto the pace when I do an out and back and 60 secs / mile for anything with a significant net elevation gain???

I'm at a loss as to how to tackle this...

BnB is a crazy man, notebook updated accordingly. For those not from around here, both the Assault on Mt. Mitchell and the Blood/Sweat/Gears rides are intense, intimidating rides with serious climbing. I know lots of accomplished cyclists that routinely ride Centuries in this half of the state that want nothing to do with either of those rides. Maybe riding one in 2012 would be a good goal.

 

[tri-man 47]

How do I establish a goal marathon pace for a mountain race? My training will be 75% flat land, 25% in the mountains. My best guess is to make the week one 13 mile run a time trail in the flats and use this to somehow establish a goal marathon pace. Anytime I'm in the mountains I'll add 30 secs / mile back onto the pace when I do an out and back and 60 secs / mile for anything with a significant net elevation gain???

I'm at a loss as to how to tackle this...

BnB - Wow ...that's a helluva schedule! I'd agree with your logic of adding the 30 sec or 60 sec/mile for the conditions you describe. Third - take a step back and note what you said. This was your third full week, so you're due for a recovery week anyway. No surprise that your third straight long run was tough. Also, you did a strong run the day before. But that's good marathon prep ...you're then doing the entire long run one day later on tired legs. Now you back off and have some healing for a week; then build again. The race itself will be on rested legs.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

One of my personal rules in life is to never sign up for a marathon with the word "mountain" in the title.