Ran a 10k in June (8 Viewers)

[IvanKaramazov]

Not that I've done a marathon, but for steady state runs HR is a wonderful tool. On the other hand it is useless for intervals or speedwork or 5k pacing, etc. HR lags too much for intervals and 5ks are typically done at a "I'm think I'm going to puke and die" pace anyway.

I still haven't tried the HR monitor for my 305 yet (I know, I know), but I was thinking the same thing about 5K/10K races. I don't need a HR monitor to tell me that I'm in agony and I want to stop running right this second. That said, I should really wear one the next time I do a 5K to figure out my max HR.

 

[Lehigh98]

Ok, the time has arrived. My 6 weeks of forced rest is up and I have 24 weeks to my first marathon on 12/4. Going for my first "run" today as I start slowly building back up. I put together another training plan based on a couple of Hal Higdon's training plans:

Lehigh98 LV Marathon Training Plan - First Draft

Does this make sense to you guys? For the cross training on Sundays, I'm planning on riding my mountain bike around town (not sure if its worth upgrading to a cheap starter road bike, been thinking about it) and looking into swimming some laps at a local pool. Any other suggestions for good / fun cross training?

Thoughts on running a half marathon during the training? Would probably take it a little easy like a training run but seems like the race down the shore would be a fun one to throw in. Screwed up my ankle (tendonitis) and my knee (OCD) on my only 2 other halfs so don't want to throw everything off from one bad run.

What little squirty suppliments do you guys use on long runs? Looking for a good one for when I get up there in mileage again.

I'm also planning on doing better leg strenghtening / stretching than I've done in the past, any suggestions for a good site for these types of things or a whole program?

Thanks alot guys!

 

[Ned]

So I looked at my Garmin data from the marathon. Pfitz says that marathon pace is just below the top end of Lactate Threshold (specifically says 79-88% of Max or 73-84% of HRR). For me, that's around a max of 170. It's no wonder I blew up. I hit 170 mile 3 and proceeded to blow thru that and was at 180 by mile 12. I never gave myself a chance.

Your marathon was all about the heat.

Right. The heat is what drove my HR through the roof. Had I paid closer attetion to my HR at the early stages of the race, I may have been able to salvage it.

That may very well be true, but I have done runs where my HR climbed to the moon no matter how slow I went. You certainly may have been able to salvage it. The only recourse at this point is sign up for another one and make sure it is 40F, overcast, with no wind the morning of the race.

Absolutely. There are going to be conditions where your body just won't be able to handle it over the long haul, but it's a useful tool to tell you what kind of effort you're putting in to do whatever pace your running. And I totally agree on the shorter distances. You can get away with pegging it for a short time, but its also a good tool to gauge where your max is at.I'm registered for the Philly marathon on 11/20. Hopefully it'll be 30F!

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Ok, the time has arrived. My 6 weeks of forced rest is up and I have 24 weeks to my first marathon on 12/4. Going for my first "run" today as I start slowly building back up. I put together another training plan based on a couple of Hal Higdon's training plans:

Lehigh98 LV Marathon Training Plan - First Draft

Does this make sense to you guys?

Looks pretty good. Assuming you follow this schedule and get to the start line healthy, you should be able to finish a marathon.

For the cross training on Sundays, I'm planning on riding my mountain bike around town (not sure if its worth upgrading to a cheap starter road bike, been thinking about it) and looking into swimming some laps at a local pool. Any other suggestions for good / fun cross training?

Both of these are good ideas. Really, anything that doesn't use your running muscles is fine. No basketball, tennis, or anything else involving sharp, sudden lateral movement.

Thoughts on running a half marathon during the training? Would probably take it a little easy like a training run but seems like the race down the shore would be a fun one to throw in. Screwed up my ankle (tendonitis) and my knee (OCD) on my only 2 other halfs so don't want to throw everything off from one bad run.

By the time you get to this point, you'll be able to do a pretty hard HM without trashing yourself. Personally, I agree that it isn't worth it to go all-out for a PR, but this should be more than a training run. If you have any sort of time goal, you could try running the half at an appropriate pace using the old "marathon = twice a half + 10 minutes" rule as a semi-hard tune-up (e.g., if you want to run a 4 hour marathon, try doing a 1:55 half). Keep in mind that for your first marathon, you shouldn't be too wedded to any particular time goal, though. Finishing should be your main objective.

What little squirty suppliments do you guys use on long runs? Looking for a good one for when I get up there in mileage again.

I like ShotBloks because they have more texture than gels (they're like little gummi cubes). But that's just me. Gels are fine too. Buy a handful of different products and experiment with them to see what you like and what your gut will tolerate. You don't want to find out at Mile 18 of the marathon that vanilla GU doesn't agree with your GI system.GL and keep posting updates.

 

[Lehigh98]

GL and keep posting updates.

Thanks! Are there any good websites for uploading / tracking / analyzing / sharing run data from my Garmin? I've experimented with a few a while back but didn't found one I really liked, hoping that they've improved or a new one has come along.

 

[SteelCurtain]

Ok, the time has arrived. My 6 weeks of forced rest is up and I have 24 weeks to my first marathon on 12/4. Going for my first "run" today as I start slowly building back up. I put together another training plan based on a couple of Hal Higdon's training plans:

Lehigh98 LV Marathon Training Plan - First Draft

Does this make sense to you guys?

Looks pretty good. Assuming you follow this schedule and get to the start line healthy, you should be able to finish a marathon.

For the cross training on Sundays, I'm planning on riding my mountain bike around town (not sure if its worth upgrading to a cheap starter road bike, been thinking about it) and looking into swimming some laps at a local pool. Any other suggestions for good / fun cross training?

Both of these are good ideas. Really, anything that doesn't use your running muscles is fine. No basketball, tennis, or anything else involving sharp, sudden lateral movement.

Thoughts on running a half marathon during the training? Would probably take it a little easy like a training run but seems like the race down the shore would be a fun one to throw in. Screwed up my ankle (tendonitis) and my knee (OCD) on my only 2 other halfs so don't want to throw everything off from one bad run.

By the time you get to this point, you'll be able to do a pretty hard HM without trashing yourself. Personally, I agree that it isn't worth it to go all-out for a PR, but this should be more than a training run. If you have any sort of time goal, you could try running the half at an appropriate pace using the old "marathon = twice a half + 10 minutes" rule as a semi-hard tune-up (e.g., if you want to run a 4 hour marathon, try doing a 1:55 half). Keep in mind that for your first marathon, you shouldn't be too wedded to any particular time goal, though. Finishing should be your main objective.

What little squirty suppliments do you guys use on long runs? Looking for a good one for when I get up there in mileage again.

I like ShotBloks because they have more texture than gels (they're like little gummi cubes). But that's just me. Gels are fine too. Buy a handful of different products and experiment with them to see what you like and what your gut will tolerate. You don't want to find out at Mile 18 of the marathon that vanilla GU doesn't agree with your GI system.GL and keep posting updates.

This is a great response here. Agree with all of it.

Two additions from me:

1. The half marathon is absolutely doable and most likely worthwhile. For me, It looks like there is a HM about 5 weeks before my marathon weekend. I plan on running 5-7 miles before the HM at an easy pace and then do the HM at just about marathon pace. So, I'm not going balls to the wall, but hope to get the feel for my marathon pace while getting a 18-20 mile training run/race in.

2. I personally prefer the GU gels. Quite honestly, I haven't tried anything else as the GU's work for me. I can't do the chocolate one....I prefer the Strawberry/Banana ones.

Good luck!

 

[tri-man 47]

Ok, the time has arrived. My 6 weeks of forced rest is up and I have 24 weeks to my first marathon on 12/4. Going for my first "run" today as I start slowly building back up. I put together another training plan based on a couple of Hal Higdon's training plans:

Lehigh98 LV Marathon Training Plan - First Draft

Does this make sense to you guys? For the cross training on Sundays, I'm planning on riding my mountain bike around town (not sure if its worth upgrading to a cheap starter road bike, been thinking about it) and looking into swimming some laps at a local pool. Any other suggestions for good / fun cross training?

Thoughts on running a half marathon during the training? Would probably take it a little easy like a training run but seems like the race down the shore would be a fun one to throw in. Screwed up my ankle (tendonitis) and my knee (OCD) on my only 2 other halfs so don't want to throw everything off from one bad run.

What little squirty suppliments do you guys use on long runs? Looking for a good one for when I get up there in mileage again.

I'm also planning on doing better leg strenghtening / stretching than I've done in the past, any suggestions for a good site for these types of things or a whole program?

Thanks alot guys!

Some thoughts:- I agree about adding the HM ...get your race juices flowing again.

- I'd suggest adding a solid pace run the day before the HM so that you're running the HM on tired legs, which will help simulate the back end of the marathon.

- In a similar vein, I'd suggest doing a pace run (sub-marathon tempo) on the Saturdays of weeks 17, 19, 21 and pushing the long, slow runs to Sunday instead of the cross training. Again, it gets you used to running on tired legs (and the long runs should be comfy-slow anyway).

I like the GU's also, but I'm not too particular. The GU Roctane has more sodium, which is good for the longer runs. My new marathon favorite is munching on a few Fig Newtons.

 

[tri-man 47]

Not that I've done a marathon, but for steady state runs HR is a wonderful tool. On the other hand it is useless for intervals or speedwork or 5k pacing, etc. HR lags too much for intervals and 5ks are typically done at a "I'm think I'm going to puke and die" pace anyway.

Agreed.I'll play guinea pig with the HR on my 10 mile trail run in a couple of weeks ..I'll only follow HR instead of time and see what happens. My mileage has been low anyway in recent weeks (some great track work, but not many miles), so I really don't have a good predictor of what my pace should be. I'll look over my previous data, target an HR zone, stay within that early on, and let it increase (and let 'er rip) later in the race.

 

[Ned]

Not that I've done a marathon, but for steady state runs HR is a wonderful tool. On the other hand it is useless for intervals or speedwork or 5k pacing, etc. HR lags too much for intervals and 5ks are typically done at a "I'm think I'm going to puke and die" pace anyway.

Agreed.I'll play guinea pig with the HR on my 10 mile trail run in a couple of weeks ..I'll only follow HR instead of time and see what happens. My mileage has been low anyway in recent weeks (some great track work, but not many miles), so I really don't have a good predictor of what my pace should be. I'll look over my previous data, target an HR zone, stay within that early on, and let it increase (and let 'er rip) later in the race.

Funny, I was thinking a 10 miler was the shortest race I'd let my HR start to dictate my pace. Curious how you make out!How hilly is the course?

 

[2Young2BBald]

What little squirty suppliments do you guys use on long runs? Looking for a good one for when I get up there in mileage again.Thanks alot guys!

If you try GU and don't like it, look at Hammer Gels by HEED. GU gels kill my stomach, but I haven't had any issues with the Hammer Gels, and love the taste of several. Pre race, I like (and can tolerate) the GU chomps.

 

[gruecd]

What little squirty suppliments do you guys use on long runs? Looking for a good one for when I get up there in mileage again.Thanks alot guys!

If you try GU and don't like it, look at Hammer Gels by HEED. GU gels kill my stomach, but I haven't had any issues with the Hammer Gels, and love the taste of several. Pre race, I like (and can tolerate) the GU chomps.

Mandarin Orange Gu for me. Nom nom nom....

 

[BassNBrew]

Not that I've done a marathon, but for steady state runs HR is a wonderful tool. On the other hand it is useless for intervals or speedwork or 5k pacing, etc. HR lags too much for intervals and 5ks are typically done at a "I'm think I'm going to puke and die" pace anyway.

Agreed.I'll play guinea pig with the HR on my 10 mile trail run in a couple of weeks ..I'll only follow HR instead of time and see what happens. My mileage has been low anyway in recent weeks (some great track work, but not many miles), so I really don't have a good predictor of what my pace should be. I'll look over my previous data, target an HR zone, stay within that early on, and let it increase (and let 'er rip) later in the race.

Funny, I was thinking a 10 miler was the shortest race I'd let my HR start to dictate my pace. Curious how you make out!How hilly is the course?

HR should be dictating your pace for anything over 30 minutes. You aren't going to be able to perform over your lacate threshold for any longer than that. The bike guys call it the red zone. If you spend too much time there, you will pay a heavy price later.As I mentioned before, I don't see how non-elite athletes can train in one hr zone and then expect to do a marathon in another zone. You will be drawing from different fuel sources your body isn't accustomed to.

 

[Ned]

Not that I've done a marathon, but for steady state runs HR is a wonderful tool. On the other hand it is useless for intervals or speedwork or 5k pacing, etc. HR lags too much for intervals and 5ks are typically done at a "I'm think I'm going to puke and die" pace anyway.

Agreed.I'll play guinea pig with the HR on my 10 mile trail run in a couple of weeks ..I'll only follow HR instead of time and see what happens. My mileage has been low anyway in recent weeks (some great track work, but not many miles), so I really don't have a good predictor of what my pace should be. I'll look over my previous data, target an HR zone, stay within that early on, and let it increase (and let 'er rip) later in the race.

Funny, I was thinking a 10 miler was the shortest race I'd let my HR start to dictate my pace. Curious how you make out!How hilly is the course?

HR should be dictating your pace for anything over 30 minutes. You aren't going to be able to perform over your lacate threshold for any longer than that. The bike guys call it the red zone. If you spend too much time there, you will pay a heavy price later.As I mentioned before, I don't see how non-elite athletes can train in one hr zone and then expect to do a marathon in another zone. You will be drawing from different fuel sources your body isn't accustomed to.

That's interesting on the 30 minutes. I haven't raced a 10K since Halloween last year in which my average HR was 180 and maxed at 193 and I felt like I was superman (my kick at the end was fantastic). I finished in 49:26. Per the Pfitz book, my Lactate Threshhold would be about a max of 175. Maybe my first couple of miles were just under LT? I'd have to see the raw Garmin data to be sure.I agree 100% on your 2nd point. I don't think anyone's suggesting to do that either. This is fascinating stuff to me. Hope I'm not beating the drum too much...

 

[Sand]

That's interesting on the 30 minutes. I haven't raced a 10K since Halloween last year in which my average HR was 180 and maxed at 193 and I felt like I was superman (my kick at the end was fantastic). I finished in 49:26. Per the Pfitz book, my Lactate Threshhold would be about a max of 175. Maybe my first couple of miles were just under LT? I'd have to see the raw Garmin data to be sure.

EPO is a wonderful drug. (Or maybe your max HR isn't what you think it is).

 

[2Young2BBald]

Any one ever done an Aquathon? Looking at an event on July 2nd that would be great prep for the survival tri in August. The Aquathon goes 2K run/750 meter swim/2K run. If desired, I can race the mile swim after for free. AND, its cheap, at $20 for both events for USAT members. If anyone has done one, how do transitions work?

 

[gruecd]

Hey, guys. Not much new to report from my end. So far this week has been 4, 7, 6.5, and 8 miles, all relatively easy. Gonna try to do a quick 4-5 miles this afternoon before heading down to Milwaukee for the Brewers/Twins game, and then I'm meeting a buddy tomorrow morning for 15 or so. Don't know yet whether or not I'll run on Sunday, but I should be close to 50 miles for the week, which isn't too bad post-30-miler. Next week will be relatively light again with the possibility of racing a half on the 4th, and then I'll probably push 70 the following week before starting my 12-week marathon training plan on the 11th. Hard to believe that my big sub-3 attempt is only 14 weeks away!

What's really exciting is that my friend, Chad, is running Western States this weekend! He's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, and he's already raised over $12,000 for the Wounded Warrior Project as part of this endeavor. I'm super excited to track him this weekend and see how he does. Here's a link to his blog if anyone wants to check it out. If the 50-miler next year goes well, this is definitely the kind of crazy thing I could see myself wanting to do someday.

 

[ThreeThousand]

What little squirty suppliments do you guys use on long runs? Looking for a good one for when I get up there in mileage again.

Thanks alot guys!

If you try GU and don't like it, look at Hammer Gels by HEED. GU gels kill my stomach, but I haven't had any issues with the Hammer Gels, and love the taste of several. Pre race, I like (and can tolerate) the GU chomps.

I too like the Hammer Gels, but my favorites are the Powerbar Gels. Especially since Amazon usually runs specials on boxes of them, usually a box of 24 for $16.00 or something like that. I bought 3 boxes for $50 shipped a couple months ago, and they've lasted me a long time.Flavor's not bad (I got green apple, chocolate, and tangerine), and I especially like the sodium content (200 mg) and caffeine.

edited for link - tangerine is $16.50 for a box of 24. Buy two boxes for free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/PowerBar-Caffeine-Tangerine-1-44-Ounce-Packets/dp/B000A2BCJG/ref=acc_glance_hpc_ai_ps_t2_t_2

 

[Ned]

Hey, guys. Not much new to report from my end. So far this week has been 4, 7, 6.5, and 8 miles, all relatively easy. Gonna try to do a quick 4-5 miles this afternoon before heading down to Milwaukee for the Brewers/Twins game, and then I'm meeting a buddy tomorrow morning for 15 or so. Don't know yet whether or not I'll run on Sunday, but I should be close to 50 miles for the week, which isn't too bad post-30-miler. Next week will be relatively light again with the possibility of racing a half on the 4th, and then I'll probably push 70 the following week before starting my 12-week marathon training plan on the 11th. Hard to believe that my big sub-3 attempt is only 14 weeks away!

What's really exciting is that my friend, Chad, is running Western States this weekend! He's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, and he's already raised over $12,000 for the Wounded Warrior Project as part of this endeavor. I'm super excited to track him this weekend and see how he does. Here's a link to his blog if anyone wants to check it out. If the 50-miler next year goes well, this is definitely the kind of crazy thing I could see myself wanting to do someday.

Will definitely his blog.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Hey, guys. Not much new to report from my end. So far this week has been 4, 7, 6.5, and 8 miles, all relatively easy. Gonna try to do a quick 4-5 miles this afternoon before heading down to Milwaukee for the Brewers/Twins game, and then I'm meeting a buddy tomorrow morning for 15 or so. Don't know yet whether or not I'll run on Sunday, but I should be close to 50 miles for the week, which isn't too bad post-30-miler. Next week will be relatively light again with the possibility of racing a half on the 4th, and then I'll probably push 70 the following week before starting my 12-week marathon training plan on the 11th. Hard to believe that my big sub-3 attempt is only 14 weeks away!

What's really exciting is that my friend, Chad, is running Western States this weekend! He's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, and he's already raised over $12,000 for the Wounded Warrior Project as part of this endeavor. I'm super excited to track him this weekend and see how he does. Here's a link to his blog if anyone wants to check it out. If the 50-miler next year goes well, this is definitely the kind of crazy thing I could see myself wanting to do someday.

:subscribe: Regarding food for running. I like both Gu and Heed products. I also like to use multiple flavors to mix it up. The only one I can't do is chocolate. It reminds me of the SNL skit, "Little Chocolate Donuts."

I'm still PT'ing my ### off (actually my groin). It feels better than it has, but I'm still having minor setbacks. Hoping to start running on July 1, but at this point I'm just hoping to be able to run again...ever

 

[IvanKaramazov]

What difference a week makes. This time last week I ran a 10K at 7:54/mi and was absolutely redlining by the end. Today I was itching to run a little harder than usual and knocked out 5 miles at 7:45/mi and felt great afterwards. Good negative splits too, with the first mile at 8:04 and the last at 7:28.

The other thing I can never get over is how much easier a run like this is outdoors as opposed to the treadmill. We've had rain and winds the past several days which have put me inside. There is no way -- none -- that I can sustain 7:45 for any length of time on a treadmill. My normal 5 mile treadmill pace is 8:20/mi, but running outdoors I've found that I almost automatically run at least :15/mi faster and that pace feels both easier and more satisfying than the slower TM pace.

On the topic of gels and other supplements, I picked up quite a few samples at the marathon expo last month, and I also picked up free GUs along the course that I ended up not using. In the next couple of weeks I'm looking forward to extending my long run a little and trying some of these out. I've always seen good reviews for the apple-cinnamon Hammer gel, so I think that's going to be first up.

 

[Sand]

What difference a week makes. This time last week I ran a 10K at 7:54/mi and was absolutely redlining by the end. Today I was itching to run a little harder than usual and knocked out 5 miles at 7:45/mi and felt great afterwards. Good negative splits too, with the first mile at 8:04 and the last at 7:28. The other thing I can never get over is how much easier a run like this is outdoors as opposed to the treadmill. We've had rain and winds the past several days which have put me inside. There is no way -- none -- that I can sustain 7:45 for any length of time on a treadmill. My normal 5 mile treadmill pace is 8:20/mi, but running outdoors I've found that I almost automatically run at least :15/mi faster and that pace feels both easier and more satisfying than the slower TM pace. On the topic of gels and other supplements, I picked up quite a few samples at the marathon expo last month, and I also picked up free GUs along the course that I ended up not using. In the next couple of weeks I'm looking forward to extending my long run a little and trying some of these out. I've always seen good reviews for the apple-cinnamon Hammer gel, so I think that's going to be first up.

I am way, way faster on the road than a treadmill. On the topic of gels - I despise those things. Shotblocks - puke-ilicious. I'll stick with Jelly Bellies (yes I know this isn't a direct response to the question.)

 

[2Young2BBald]

What difference a week makes. This time last week I ran a 10K at 7:54/mi and was absolutely redlining by the end. Today I was itching to run a little harder than usual and knocked out 5 miles at 7:45/mi and felt great afterwards. Good negative splits too, with the first mile at 8:04 and the last at 7:28.

The other thing I can never get over is how much easier a run like this is outdoors as opposed to the treadmill. We've had rain and winds the past several days which have put me inside. There is no way -- none -- that I can sustain 7:45 for any length of time on a treadmill. My normal 5 mile treadmill pace is 8:20/mi, but running outdoors I've found that I almost automatically run at least :15/mi faster and that pace feels both easier and more satisfying than the slower TM pace.

On the topic of gels and other supplements, I picked up quite a few samples at the marathon expo last month, and I also picked up free GUs along the course that I ended up not using. In the next couple of weeks I'm looking forward to extending my long run a little and trying some of these out. I've always seen good reviews for the apple-cinnamon Hammer gel, so I think that's going to be first up.

This is AMAZING, like apple pie filling. Even better, is the Montana Huckleberry. I also tried the chocolate, not bad, but not as good as the other 2. I have 2 raspberry I just bought and am going to try one of these prior to a tri on Sunday.

 

[ThreeThousand]

What difference a week makes. This time last week I ran a 10K at 7:54/mi and was absolutely redlining by the end. Today I was itching to run a little harder than usual and knocked out 5 miles at 7:45/mi and felt great afterwards. Good negative splits too, with the first mile at 8:04 and the last at 7:28. The other thing I can never get over is how much easier a run like this is outdoors as opposed to the treadmill. We've had rain and winds the past several days which have put me inside. There is no way -- none -- that I can sustain 7:45 for any length of time on a treadmill. My normal 5 mile treadmill pace is 8:20/mi, but running outdoors I've found that I almost automatically run at least :15/mi faster and that pace feels both easier and more satisfying than the slower TM pace. On the topic of gels and other supplements, I picked up quite a few samples at the marathon expo last month, and I also picked up free GUs along the course that I ended up not using. In the next couple of weeks I'm looking forward to extending my long run a little and trying some of these out. I've always seen good reviews for the apple-cinnamon Hammer gel, so I think that's going to be first up.

I am way, way faster on the road than a treadmill. On the topic of gels - I despise those things. Shotblocks - puke-ilicious. I'll stick with Jelly Bellies (yes I know this isn't a direct response to the question.)

Agreed, me too. 15 miles on the road is easier than 5 on a treadmill, for me.BTW - anyone racing this weekend?

 

[2Young2BBald]

Due to all the heavy rain over the past week and all kinds of #### washing in to Lake St Clair, the swim for my Sunday tri has been changed from a 750M Lake swim to a 500M pool swim. Gotta say that I am bummed. I had my fastest tri swim ever there last year and was looking forward to trying to beat it (and wanted to get back on the horse after a crap swim a few weeks ago). BUT, I'll tale a pool swim over gulping down toxins.

 

[prosopis]

Hey, guys. Not much new to report from my end. So far this week has been 4, 7, 6.5, and 8 miles, all relatively easy. Gonna try to do a quick 4-5 miles this afternoon before heading down to Milwaukee for the Brewers/Twins game, and then I'm meeting a buddy tomorrow morning for 15 or so. Don't know yet whether or not I'll run on Sunday, but I should be close to 50 miles for the week, which isn't too bad post-30-miler. Next week will be relatively light again with the possibility of racing a half on the 4th, and then I'll probably push 70 the following week before starting my 12-week marathon training plan on the 11th. Hard to believe that my big sub-3 attempt is only 14 weeks away!

What's really exciting is that my friend, Chad, is running Western States this weekend! He's one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet, and he's already raised over $12,000 for the Wounded Warrior Project as part of this endeavor. I'm super excited to track him this weekend and see how he does. Here's a link to his blog if anyone wants to check it out. If the 50-miler next year goes well, this is definitely the kind of crazy thing I could see myself wanting to do someday.

Will be watching Chad for sure.

 

[prosopis]

I did my 4 mile recovery run today. I was gonna hit the treadmill but then I got to wondering if I could do this in the heat of the day. It was 107 out. I feel good about this but at the same time I am not sure it was the smartest thing to do. I took a long cold shower when I got home and I would have accepted an ice enema if it was offered. My body was roasting from the inside out. Good news was I maintained my recovery run pace at 12:21 and my hr avg was 157. All in all I am very happy with this. Tomorrow I am doing 12 miles and and I will have to see if todays run will negatively affect it. I will do the 12 early, I expect about 70 out before sun rise.

 

[tri-man 47]

Not that I've done a marathon, but for steady state runs HR is a wonderful tool. On the other hand it is useless for intervals or speedwork or 5k pacing, etc. HR lags too much for intervals and 5ks are typically done at a "I'm think I'm going to puke and die" pace anyway.

Agreed.I'll play guinea pig with the HR on my 10 mile trail run in a couple of weeks ..I'll only follow HR instead of time and see what happens. My mileage has been low anyway in recent weeks (some great track work, but not many miles), so I really don't have a good predictor of what my pace should be. I'll look over my previous data, target an HR zone, stay within that early on, and let it increase (and let 'er rip) later in the race.

Funny, I was thinking a 10 miler was the shortest race I'd let my HR start to dictate my pace. Curious how you make out!How hilly is the course?

HR should be dictating your pace for anything over 30 minutes. You aren't going to be able to perform over your lacate threshold for any longer than that. The bike guys call it the red zone. If you spend too much time there, you will pay a heavy price later.As I mentioned before, I don't see how non-elite athletes can train in one hr zone and then expect to do a marathon in another zone. You will be drawing from different fuel sources your body isn't accustomed to.

That's interesting on the 30 minutes. I haven't raced a 10K since Halloween last year in which my average HR was 180 and maxed at 193 and I felt like I was superman (my kick at the end was fantastic). I finished in 49:26. Per the Pfitz book, my Lactate Threshhold would be about a max of 175. Maybe my first couple of miles were just under LT? I'd have to see the raw Garmin data to be sure.I agree 100% on your 2nd point. I don't think anyone's suggesting to do that either.

This is fascinating stuff to me. Hope I'm not beating the drum too much...

Beat away! It's an important topic. BnB - good points! And the race next week apparently has one small hill and one bigger hill - I don't think they're anything to worry about. I haven't focused on it at all (having just finished a 20 page research paper for a class, and now have a 10-15 pager due Tuesday for my other class ). I did get in 8 miles this morning with 6 at an increasing tempo - avg. of 7:43/mile.

 

[BassNBrew]

BTW - anyone racing this weekend?

105 mile Blood, Sweat, and Gears race tomorrow. Should be in bed but i can't sleep. :( PR is 6:48. Course is 2 miles longer this year and winds will be around 20 mph. That said, the pr is soft due to mechanicals that ride. Was hoping for 6:30, but conditions and 2 extra miles will make that impossible.Back to try and sleep again.

 

[Darrinll40]

8 miles this morning, all on a treadmill. It was my longest effort ever on a treadmill and I have to say, it was ok, much better than running outside at this time of year. I did check my HR by grabbing the bars about every mile. It was at about 137 for the first 4 miles, though I was taking it real easy at first. I increases speed after 4 and the HR went up to 153 through 7 miles, then went to 175 for the last mile as I pushed the pace to 9:22. Tuesday I am going to try my interval run there to see how that works.

I did do a lower body workout on Monday and upper on Wednesday. All I can say is that my arms are still sore.

 

[prosopis]

I got up early again today and hit the streets before sunrise. I got 12 miles done with avg pace 11:35 which is exactly what the Pfitz plan called for. My avg HR was 154 which is 4 beats lower then last weeks 11 miles. I am pretty sure that is good- sign of improvement? correct?

I am sore but feeling good. I am taking the kids to see Cars 2 3D today, wooo hooooo!!

 

[tri-man 47]

Darrin, prosopis - good runs, guys!! Prosopis, yes, that sounds like some improvement in the HR. A distance run with the HR in the mid-150s seems to be an appropriate range.

7 x 1/2 mile repeats for me this a.m. Around 3:12/3:13 (6:25 pace) for all of them. Goal was 8; sucking wind hard after 6; settled for 7. Oof!

 

[gruecd]

15 for me this morning. Could definitely tell about 2/3 of the way through that the legs are still a little fatigued from last weekend's long run. Gonna head out in a little while for a bike ride. Not sure how far yet, but probably 20-30 miles.

Darrin/prosopis - Nice work!

tri - Way to battle.

My buddy, Chad, is currently through 43.8 miles of WS100 in 7:13:00. He's on his own until mile 62, when another friend of mine, Jay, will meet him in Foresthill and pace him the last 40 miles through the night. Dude's amazing.

 

[Ned]

15 for me this morning. Could definitely tell about 2/3 of the way through that the legs are still a little fatigued from last weekend's long run. Gonna head out in a little while for a bike ride. Not sure how far yet, but probably 20-30 miles.

Darrin/prosopis - Nice work!

tri - Way to battle.

My buddy, Chad, is currently through 43.8 miles of WS100 in 7:13:00. He's on his own until mile 62, when another friend of mine, Jay, will meet him in Foresthill and pace him the last 40 miles through the night. Dude's amazing.

Holy crap what a stud! GL Chad!Took the family to the state park today and took turns with my wife getting some trail running in while entertaining the kids. This place is about as hilly as it gets in DE, so it was a good test. Thankfully it was a cool 80 and pretty comfy in the shade. Wife did 3 and I did 6. These trail runs are so much more than a road run at the same distance. Fun stuff.

 

[gruecd]

Chad made it to mile 62 and to his pacer. Dude is kicking ### and taking names out there.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Being extra careful packing my gear bag for tomorrow's tri because I am packing for two. Convinced my wife to do her first multi-sport event, doing the sprint duathlon tomorrow It'll be cool to see her on the bike and/or run course. Hopefully we can be side by side in transition

 

[mr. furley]

My buddy, Chad, is currently through 43.8 miles of WS100 in 7:13:00. He's on his own until mile 62, when another friend of mine, Jay, will meet him in Foresthill and pace him the last 40 miles through the night. Dude's amazing.

this is the craziest thing i think i've heard this year

 

[prosopis]

My buddy, Chad, is currently through 43.8 miles of WS100 in 7:13:00. He's on his own until mile 62, when another friend of mine, Jay, will meet him in Foresthill and pace him the last 40 miles through the night. Dude's amazing.

this is the craziest thing i think i've heard this year

AwesomeI watched a documentary last night about 3 guys who ran across the Sahara. Freaking unreal. I was thinking of Grue's friend.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Chad made it to mile 62 and to his pacer. Dude is kicking ### and taking names out there.

Did he finish? He was making really good time.

 

[gruecd]

Chad made it to mile 62 and to his pacer. Dude is kicking ### and taking names out there.

Did he finish? He was making really good time.

He did. Sub-20 (19:48:27) and 38th place overall in his 100-mile debut, and all smiles as he came across the finish line. Simply amazing.

 

[2Young2BBald]

That's more like it!!!! PODIUM for the short. old, bald guy Defended my 1st place AG last year with another AG 1st this morning and was the 16th male overall. RR to come when splits are out. Darn cool to see my wife on course too. Passed her on the bike and was done by the time she came out of T2 so I go to cheer her on at several spots on the run. My reward, a trip to Costco to stock up for an impromptu party were hosting prior to our community fireworks tonight.

 

[Ned]

Congrats to Chad, 2Y2BB, and Mrs. 2Y2BB! 100 miler, a #1 AG and a first timer...Good stuff!

On my end I don't think I should be allowed to have this much fun by myself, aside from a date with a few choice lubricants. Did 12 today and felt amazing. I kept my HR right in the middle of the Pfitz Long Run range and ended up faster than I expected. 9:16 pace and average HR of 152. I'm definitely running stronger than I was at the peak of marathon training.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Nice job, 2Y2BB.

 

[2Young2BBald]

That's more like it!!!! PODIUM for the short. old, bald guy Defended my 1st place AG last year with another AG 1st this morning and was the 16th male overall. RR to come when splits are out. Darn cool to see my wife on course too. Passed her on the bike and was done by the time she came out of T2 so I go to cheer her on at several spots on the run. My reward, a trip to Costco to stock up for an impromptu party were hosting prior to our community fireworks tonight.

And here are the details:Anyone Can Tri Sprint Triathlon - 500M Pool Swim, 13 Mile Bike, 5K Run

Swim: Due to off the charts ecoli counts, the swim was moved to a 50M outdoor pool. Since this came quick, they did not have floating lane markers, so the improvised with banner flags. They tossed together 5 lanes, so you had to go down and back in the same lane. We were seeded by projected 500M times and I got in with the 9:00 minute group (and wish I had went with the 8:45s). Three of the four guys right in front of me way over shot their ability and I passed them in the first 50. Had a boot of room for the next 100 or so and then things got all bottled up. I couldn't go anywhere, so I just drafted off the guy in front of me and let him run in to other swimmer. End up doing the swim in 10:10, since this included a 30 yard run to the mat and climb out of pool, not too bad, but could have been much faster without the congestion. 12th out of 79 for the event.

T1: 2:22, nothing special, but efficient.

Bike: Still disappointing compared to last year. Averaged 20.5 MPH (did 22.8 last year) for 36:13. I just cannot get in a grove on the bike. I would hold 24, then seem to daydream and drop below 20, a little frustrating. 18 out of 79 for the event.

T2: 27 seconds!!! Second fastest in the event and my first sub 30 second transition. The flying dismount is proving effective.

Run: Averaged 7:35 for a 23:33 5K (yep, slower than last year too, did 23:09 then). Pretty happy with the run as I felt like I left a ton out on the bike. 23 out of 79 for the event.

Overall, I was 16 out of 45 guys (smaller event), but most of the guys that finished ahead of me are younger, team guys. Thanks for the congrats guys!

 

[FBG26]

Tri Report - Sprint Edition

This is my second time doing this event. Last year it was my first ever Tri and I couldn't be happier with the overall progress.

Swim (0.5m) T1 Bike (20m) T2 Run (4m) Year PLC PLC AGE S plc time time plc time time plc time pace FINISH2010 335 24/27 25 M 341 21:37 3:15 339 1:14:47 1:04 279 38:36:00 9:39 2:19:172011 230 16/18 26 M 250 19:48 2:45 213 1:03:32 1:16 228 35:32:00 8:53 2:02:50
It's a little hard to tell where you are relative to the rest of the pack because they start one person every three seconds, rather doing doing wave starts. I could tell I was much stronger this year and just kept pushing it. I kept passing people on the bike (didn't happen at all last year) but I was surprised to see that I dropped 11 minutes. Fun stuff!

 

[prosopis]

Nice job 2Y2BB, and Mrs. 2Y2BB, Ned and Chad.

Dang 100 miles under 20

 

[Dexter]

That's more like it!!!! PODIUM for the short. old, bald guy Defended my 1st place AG last year with another AG 1st this morning and was the 16th male overall. RR to come when splits are out. Darn cool to see my wife on course too. Passed her on the bike and was done by the time she came out of T2 so I go to cheer her on at several spots on the run. My reward, a trip to Costco to stock up for an impromptu party were hosting prior to our community fireworks tonight.

And here are the details:Anyone Can Tri Sprint Triathlon - 500M Pool Swim, 13 Mile Bike, 5K Run

Swim: Due to off the charts ecoli counts, the swim was moved to a 50M outdoor pool. Since this came quick, they did not have floating lane markers, so the improvised with banner flags. They tossed together 5 lanes, so you had to go down and back in the same lane. We were seeded by projected 500M times and I got in with the 9:00 minute group (and wish I had went with the 8:45s). Three of the four guys right in front of me way over shot their ability and I passed them in the first 50. Had a boot of room for the next 100 or so and then things got all bottled up. I couldn't go anywhere, so I just drafted off the guy in front of me and let him run in to other swimmer. End up doing the swim in 10:10, since this included a 30 yard run to the mat and climb out of pool, not too bad, but could have been much faster without the congestion. 12th out of 79 for the event.

T1: 2:22, nothing special, but efficient.

Bike: Still disappointing compared to last year. Averaged 20.5 MPH (did 22.8 last year) for 36:13. I just cannot get in a grove on the bike. I would hold 24, then seem to daydream and drop below 20, a little frustrating. 18 out of 79 for the event.

T2: 27 seconds!!! Second fastest in the event and my first sub 30 second transition. The flying dismount is proving effective.

Run: Averaged 7:35 for a 23:33 5K (yep, slower than last year too, did 23:09 then). Pretty happy with the run as I felt like I left a ton out on the bike. 23 out of 79 for the event.

Overall, I was 16 out of 45 guys (smaller event), but most of the guys that finished ahead of me are younger, team guys. Thanks for the congrats guys!

Congrats I was really close to signing up for this event, but just wasn't feeling it this weekend with all the travel I did last week. I really wanted to do it because ACT was the first race I did where I could compare to last years time (They didn't have my time for last years Xtri :/ ). Other than the crappy water this really is a good event especially for beginners.

BTW I tried to sign up for Anchor Bay, but it was full. I think I'm going to add Mackinaw to my schedule.

 

[tri-man 47]

Congrats to Chad, 2Y2BB, and Mrs. 2Y2BB! 100 miler, a #1 AG and a first timer...Good stuff!

Also FBG's very significant improvement! AND add to that a solid triathlon by our MIA buddy, Wraith (beat his goal of 1:36 by over a minute). Good stuff, indeed.

 

[prosopis]

Congrats to Chad, 2Y2BB, and Mrs. 2Y2BB! 100 miler, a #1 AG and a first timer...Good stuff!

Also FBG's very significant improvement! AND add to that a solid triathlon by our MIA buddy, Wraith (beat his goal of 1:36 by over a minute). Good stuff, indeed.

Why have we not heard from Wraith?

 

[BassNBrew]

Blood, Sweat, and Gears 2011

Overview - 6h 28m, 103 miles, PR by 20 min, 240th of 750 starting slots.

Details for those interested.

Wow, I did it...barely. Fortunately the published ride distance of 105 miles was off. Also had a team mate finsih 6th overall and a good friend post a 6:16 for a pr by 30+ min. Can't say it was much fun, but crossing the finish line made it worth while.

Day began with a trip back to the house to get my buddies gel bottle. This got us to the line about 20 min prior to start time and roughly 700th in the corral. After the Star, Spangler, Banner, hendix edition we were off. Lots of traffic to fight at the start.

First major climb starts at mile 4 and is 4 miles and 917 ft. Hit it hard but in control. 11.3 mph, 150 hr, 283 watts. Was then rewarded with a 1.7 mi descent at 33 mph into town.

We then hit the Blue Ridge Parkway for about 25 miles which just alternates between 6-8% up and 6-8% down. The best descent was 1.7 miles at a 36 mph average with a max speed of 47 mph. That lead into another downhill where I ended up knocking out 5.3 miles in about 8.5 min or roughly 30 mph. The longest climb on the Parkway was a 3 mi slog where 240 watts was only netting me an 8 mph average. Scary part was the 8% grades were dropping me straight into granny gear which wasn't looking promising for later in the day.

Needed a 16.2 average to pr. Hit mile 45 at a 17.5 average at 219 watt average. Here we had a dead flat stretch along a river for about 3 mi and pulled the average up to 17.8. My buddy had dropped me early on the parkway but I saw him in the distance on this flat and chased him down. Not the best use of energy in this ride and I was going to pay the piper for this effort.

50 mile starts a 3 mile climb and I was immediately dropped by my buddy. i knew this would be the last i would see of him as he was climbing well and I wasn't. 3.2 mi, 600 ft, 220 watt, 64 rpm, 136 hr, 9.8 mph. I screwed up my hydration plan and was feeling it here. Since I've been run training with straight gatorade, I brought 2 bottles of G2 and one of accelerade. I was dying for water here. Fortunately we had a 3 mile descent to the next aid station. I slammed one bottle of water, filled another, and was back on the road. I'm now at mile 56 and the average speed has dropped to 17.2 mph ride time. Of course it was lower with the stop time.

Here we start the signature climb of the event. Snake Mt is 6 miles and roughly 1250 ft. Problem is 625 ft of that comes in the last 1.3 miles and it gradual increases to a substained 18% grade. I made it without walking, sort of a badge of honor for us mortal riders. That said, i may as well have been walking at my 3.0-3.5 mph pace and 30-35 rpm. My hr stayed around 140 here as my legs didn't have the strength to match my lungs. Crested the top and loaded up on water again. The last 6 miles knocked my average pace down to 15.7 mph which is well behind the 16.2 mph goal. 43.5 min at 8.5 mph will do that to you.

Well Mother Earth gives back what she takes. 6.27 mi dropping 1300 ft. Averaged 26 mph with the twisting descent and 2 miles of fresh chip seal pavement. Average is now back to 16.2 hitting the next climb.

The next 6 miles is up at down dropping my average to 16.1. I'm now at mile 75 and my favorite part of the ride. 6.5 mi losing 500 ft. Its about a perfect -1.5% grade and the hammer got dropped. Averaged 27 mph at 240 watts as Rush's Red Barchetta blared on my mp3 player as I flew down the valley road. This effort got me back up to 16.6 mph and gave me some hope as George's Gap loomed.

George's Gap is a nasty little 2.25 mi climb with 650 ft of climbing. About halfway up I started cramping and had to stop and piss, pop 2 advil, 2 rolaids, and a couple of shot bloks. Felt better and got to the top. Now the average is 16.0. Blast down the decent and I pull that up to 16.2 mph. The next climb was at mile 92, a 9% 1 mile beast. Every muscle in my legs went into cramp mode and I barely got uncliped before tipping over. Pounded a bottle of water and 6 shot bloks. I walked about 50 yards until I got to a driveway way flat enough to get back on the bike and get started. The cramps simmered down I got the ##### behind me. I'm now at 16.1 and hitting my target goal looks bleak.

9 miles to go and I probably spent 1/2 that time looking at my watch running the numbers. The computer time wasn't applicable with my stops. I knew I had crossed the start line 2 to 3 minutes after the gun, but I wasn't sure if we started on time. 9 miles and I had 27 minutes plus some unknown buffer to make it home. Knocked out the first 6 of those miles at 19.7 mph including 300 ft of climbing. Now I'm sitting at the base of Mast Gap staring at 4/10's of a mile at 10% knowing I need my best climb of the day to break 6:30. 270 watts got me up it at 6.6 mph in under 4 min. My hr jumped to 150 and my leg muscles were cramping. I wasn't going to stop this close to the end so I just pounded the affected areas with my fist the entire way up the climb. Actually passed two people on this climb and I hadn't passed anyone on a climb in the last 90+ miles.

99 miles behind me, 3 to go, 16.1 mph average for the ride. It was full on TT mode the rest of the way in. The eyes were now in a constant rotation...watch, speedometer, road. I knew even a second over 6h30m would just be the absolute suck. It was too late in the day to drop the hammer, but every last match was being burned here. The last 1/2 mile i held 371 watts for a 1:20 and 23.6 mph. The computer read 16.3 mph for the ride, better yet the gun time read 6:30:36. i knew the chip time would be 2-3 minutes less than that. My friends were at the finish cheering me on and helped me off the bike. I don't remember who, but some kind soul brought two bags of ice for my cramping quads. I laid in the grass for 5-10 minutes taking in everyone's stories from the day and recovering.

All in all a great day!

 

[BassNBrew]

After yesterday's ride i sure wanted to take today off. Legs were sore and tired, but that will be the case for King of the Mt in 2 weeks. Ran 6.8 miles up Beech Mt and none of it was much fun. The 12'45" pace wasn't to impressive, but it covered 2008 ft of climbing. I fought the urge to walk parts and "ran" the entire way. The trip back down was better but beat the legs up good. Ended up at 13.6 miles over 2:32:15 for an 11:12 pace. I'm hobbling pretty good right now.

Well that's the last tough run of the 11 week marathon training cycle. Haven't quite figured out my 1.5 week taper. Tough to tell what my event outcome will be. I couldn't have made the marathon cut off today and probably couldn't have completed the distance. That said, the bike event will be easier than yesterday's beast and the run won't have grades approaching what I tackled today. I should be fresher and will have the fitness gains of this weekend under my belt. Guess I'm cautiously optimistic but the marathon distance still worries me.