Ran a 10k in June (5 Viewers)

[wraith5]

Just did 4.5m at work

1 8:42.6 1.00 8:432 8:29.5 1.00 8:293 9:00.9 1.00 9:014 9:08.8 1.00 9:095 4:39.3 0.50 9:22Summary 40:00.9 4.50 8:54

I need to SLOW down. I am used to paces closer to 10 range.Was just gonna do 3mi, but broke out of my comfort zone and stretched my legs some for an extra 1.5.

Seems like that pace actually worked for you - how difficult was the last mile?

 

[wraith5]

Nice read. Amazingly consistent HR. I'd be freaking out if I had a 13 point jump from mile 1 to mile 2.

Normally, I would agree, but low to mid 170's is my race norm so it was not that big of a deal. I really was probably not even paying attention to it at that point. I think that I crossed a bridge there as well, so that going up the bridge probably accounted for me settling in and going up the bridge.

What's your HR max?

 

[pmbrown_22]

Great job on this race, and there is no doubt about that last sentence! I know you slowed down, but I find it very interesting that despite the heat your highest HR was mile 7, and your HR was actually lower over the last 4 miles or so. Congrats again GB!!

I did not realize this, but that stretch is literally all uphill. It is funny at looking at the heart rate graph, it really looks a lot like the elevation chart does. I will let the experts weigh in on that as I would assume that is more normal.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Nice read. Amazingly consistent HR. I'd be freaking out if I had a 13 point jump from mile 1 to mile 2.

Normally, I would agree, but low to mid 170's is my race norm so it was not that big of a deal. I really was probably not even paying attention to it at that point. I think that I crossed a bridge there as well, so that going up the bridge probably accounted for me settling in and going up the bridge.

What's your HR max?

Honestly, I could not tell you, but probably around 185 I am guessing. I have never really tried to ever max it out.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Good job PM! How hot did it get? I'm used to flat courses so Cincy hills would be a killer for me. I'm also amazed how you guys run with heart rates in the 170s.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Good job PM! How hot did it get? I'm used to flat courses so Cincy hills would be a killer for me. I'm also amazed how you guys run with heart rates in the 170s.

I am guessing that it reached 75 or 80 as I was finishing up. The people finishing after me could have been in some trouble.

 

[tri-man 47]

Nice read. Amazingly consistent HR. I'd be freaking out if I had a 13 point jump from mile 1 to mile 2.

Normally, I would agree, but low to mid 170's is my race norm so it was not that big of a deal. I really was probably not even paying attention to it at that point. I think that I crossed a bridge there as well, so that going up the bridge probably accounted for me settling in and going up the bridge.

I would bet you weren't seeing the avg HR/mile, so you probably would not have "seen" that increase. For myself, I just watch where the HR is at (versus the average). I was wondering about the mid-170s, but as you state, that's normal for you. It is surprising that the rate actually dropped late in the race. I suspect that's a function of the day's heat (or new dad's training limitations) just wearing you down moreso than HR/aerobic issues being the limitation.Congrats again! It's quite a feat for you to pull that off and do that well given hot/humid conditions and the craziness at home with the new little guy!!!

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

2012 Cincinnati Flying Pig Marathon Race ReportOk, so here it goes.The weekend started off with a bang and I picked up my packet on Friday after noon and got ready for a lot of rest over the next day and a half. So I promptly went home, had dinner and cut the grass. I had to get it out of the way because we were going to get rain and I would not be able to do it for awhile post marathon. This planning on things and having them not work out is a recurring theme for me this last weekend.Saturday I woke up and did my 4 shake out miles and felt really good, but it was super humid in the morning. I made the decision then that I would be skinning it and going without a shirt. Hello Cincinnati, meet pasty and doughy runner. I am not that bad, but I certainly feel like it. The rest of the day was a blur that included me not resting at all until I went to bed at 10:00. Only real problem sleeping was being awake from 1:00 to 2:30 with crying baby because he had a double ear infection. Not great, but nothing I could do.Woke up at 4:40 and was moving and out the door. I was able to park right next to my building downtown and got to go inside and use the facilities, drink some cold Gatorade and then was off to the starting line. I did take Sand and Tri-man’s advice about staying cool. I had the drink ice cold and walked down the start with an ice pack on my wrists. By the time I got down there and found the drop off for my bag, I was shivering. I took this a good sign that I was ready to go and body was cool enough. One more pit stop in the woods and I was in the coral. I was stretching and heard my name being called. I looked up and saw someone I went to high school with that I had not seen in quite awhile. That was a great thing so I did not have to think about things too much and we just chatted a bit. Took the nerves off, and pretty soon, we were off and running.Weather was great at the start and a lot less humid than the day before. 61 at start with a nice breeze blowing.I had planned on running around 7:45 and see where that got me. Here are my numbers and some thoughts from what I could remember. Depending on the ups and downs of the course the times varied as I let myself go faster down the hills.1 - 0:07:43 – 158 – Made sure that I did not go out too fast as it was cool. 2 - 0:07:15 – 1713 - 0:07:25 - 1754 - 0:07:33 – 175 – Saw wife and I had her give me a bottle of Gatorade as I was trying to get in extra fluids early on to try and get them through the system for later in the race. Did not really work well as it was too awkward to handle and I drank half and ditched it. Still was good to get it in, but I need a better option for future hot races.5 - 0:08:14 – 175 – First GU and slowed down to make sure I got it and prepare for the hills coming up.6 - 0:07:27 – 175 – Uphill, but just coming out of downtown where it was packed and loud had me moving pretty well.7 - 0:08:02 – 179 – still all uphill8 - 0:08:02 – 176 – still all uphill9 - 0:07:45 – 174 – mostly uphill and finally finished with the major uphill. Through this stretch I mostly went by heart rate and tried to keep it around 175 as I knew it would be tough sledding for these 3 miles. I think I did well and was still feeling fresh after them.10 - 0:07:24 - 17111 - 0:07:16 – 171 – Huge downhill12 - 0:07:32 - 17313 - 0:07:30 - 17314 - 0:07:40 - 17115 - 0:08:02 – 173 – Just clicking off miles and making sure I got liquids at the stops. Realized here that I needed to slow down a bit in order to try and conserve some energy for down the road. Might have been too late, but everything was clicking and I was still feeling really good.16 - 0:07:55 - 17417 - 0:07:54 - 17418 - 0:08:24 – 173 - At this point I come to an on ramp for the parkway where there is no shade and it is rough going from here on out. The sun is high and the lack of shade/breeze starts taking it’s toll. There is also rolling hills so not a lot of fun.19 - 0:08:14 - 17320 - 0:08:41 – 171 – I realized that at some point around here that I stopped sweating and my hair was completely dry. Luckily, I had just taken double Gatorade at the stop and they were passing out water bottles. I walked a bit to get as much as I could down. I don’t think that I actually stopped sweating as much as the sun just dried out my hair. My initial thought was that I was in trouble, but it worked out ok.21 - 0:09:13 - 17022 - 0:08:52 – 168 – Saw the first few casualties of the day as a girl collapsed and there were people at the medic tents all over. The staff was great here and being that it was a long hot stretch, the patrol was extra and it was needed.23 - 0:09:11 – 168 – Starting to feel the strain of the heat and was just caked in salt now. At this point I was sprayed by a hose by someone at one of the stops. For some this was a great idea. I wish I had the same sentiment, but I don’t like getting sprayed by hoses (just a quirk) and she got me full in the face. My fear was that I would chafe more as the water was drying on my skin and I already had a few rough patches on me anyway. I was not happy. The problem was that I was fighting cramps as well and it made me jump sideways as I saw it from the corner of my eye. My groin did not like it at all and I thought I was going down, but managed to stay on my feet and keep going.24 - 0:09:39 - 16525 - 0:09:34 – 165 – Just one more mile to go. I was struggling, but knew that I could finish.26 - 0:09:06 – 167 – I am used to running this stretch so I knew what to expect. I got up the small hill and could see the finish..2 - 0:02:59 – 172 – I thought I was flying down the chute, but ended up at about an 8:30 pace. Still got chills crossing the line. I was a zombie going through the chute and did not know where I was at all.Basically, got my stuff and walked to where we were parked and got out of there. I am still feeling a bit sore in the legs, but nothing is hurting that shouldn’t so I am actually anxious to get back out there and get to it. Probably another day or two before I do anything, but I am ready.I did go on heart rate a lot during the end. I did not want it to get too high, but also I was making sure that it was my guide to how my body was taking the heat. The last couple of miles I could not go any faster, but I wanted to make sure my head and body were on the same page and I was still ok with the heat.Overall, it was a good race and a difficult training cycle for me. I did not get all of the runs I needed, but understandably I got in what I could and am happy/proud of what I accomplished. I missed the course PR by about a minute, but with lower temps I would have nailed it no problem.Have a great day all.

Great job! I love reading these as it gives me tips/experiences for my future races...thank you.

 

[pmbrown_22]

Nice read. Amazingly consistent HR. I'd be freaking out if I had a 13 point jump from mile 1 to mile 2.

Normally, I would agree, but low to mid 170's is my race norm so it was not that big of a deal. I really was probably not even paying attention to it at that point. I think that I crossed a bridge there as well, so that going up the bridge probably accounted for me settling in and going up the bridge.

I would bet you weren't seeing the avg HR/mile, so you probably would not have "seen" that increase. For myself, I just watch where the HR is at (versus the average). I was wondering about the mid-170s, but as you state, that's normal for you. It is surprising that the rate actually dropped late in the race. I suspect that's a function of the day's heat (or new dad's training limitations) just wearing you down moreso than HR/aerobic issues being the limitation.Congrats again! It's quite a feat for you to pull that off and do that well given hot/humid conditions and the craziness at home with the new little guy!!!

Thanks. I agree about the end. I just did not have anything left in the tank. Seeing the one girl laying on the ground really shook me up a bit and I just wanted to finish at that point. As for the mid-170's, I think that I was pushing a bit as I was feeling good. I have not done a lot of heart rate training so I am still trying to figure out my ranges. I know on my longer training runs it was always around the mid 150's, but at no time during my race did I feel like I was overdoing it and getting out of control, so I yield to you guys who are more experienced to help me understand it better.

 

[Sean]

2012 Cincinnati Flying Pig Marathon Race Report

Great job! I love reading these as it gives me tips/experiences for my future races...thank you.

 

[AcerFC]

Great read PM. Since I didn't add it all up, is it where you wanted to be in the end?

 

[AcerFC]

And eff the guys with the hose. Should be asking instead of blindly spraying

 

[Juxtatarot]

And eff the guys with the hose. Should be asking instead of blindly spraying

I don't get this. Are the hose guys just blasting runners when they pass? In the races where I've seen this done (Chicago, mainly) they spray in the air so it's pretty easy to choose if you want to go through it or not.

 

[pmbrown_22]

And eff the guys with the hose. Should be asking instead of blindly spraying

They were supposed to be asking, but I think I blinded her with the light reflecting of my pasty white chest at the time. She just could not handle that much sexy coming at her at one time.One other important piece of info i forgot to mention in the RR. Gatorade in the eyes really stings. I tried to drink and hit a bump in the road and it went right in my left eye. It stung for the next half mile.

 

[pmbrown_22]

And eff the guys with the hose. Should be asking instead of blindly spraying

I don't get this. Are the hose guys just blasting runners when they pass? In the races where I've seen this done (Chicago, mainly) they spray in the air so it's pretty easy to choose if you want to go through it or not.

I think that was the idea, but this one just did it as I was running by and it mostly hit me from the elbow up.

 

[17seconds]

Nice race report PM and great effort on what looks like a tougher course.

Amazing what seems to happen to everybody between miles 15 and 20. Can feel like the strongest/bounciest runner and then the deep hurting comes on.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Great job, PM.

I'll joing the chorus of people who are pissed at the hose guys. We all know exactly what you mean about how easy it would be to just fall down at that point in the race from something like this, but people who don't do distance running don't get it.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Nice race report PM and great effort on what looks like a tougher course.Amazing what seems to happen to everybody between miles 15 and 20. Can feel like the strongest/bounciest runner and then the deep hurting comes on.

That part of the race is the part where you're starting to get pretty tired, but you've still got a long way to go. The ability to sniff the finish line at the 22/23/24 mile mark is a big mental pick-me-up, but the finish line still seems very far away when you're at mile 18.

 

[BassNBrew]

Nice race report PM and great effort on what looks like a tougher course.Amazing what seems to happen to everybody between miles 15 and 20. Can feel like the strongest/bounciest runner and then the deep hurting comes on.

That part of the race is the part where you're starting to get pretty tired, but you've still got a long way to go. The ability to sniff the finish line at the 22/23/24 mile mark is a big mental pick-me-up, but the finish line still seems very far away when you're at mile 18.

This I just don't get. Miles 10-12 are the worst for me. That's the point when I realize I've been running a long time, the adernaline has worn off, and I'm not even halfway there. Why did I sign up for this echos through my head. Those doldrums last until mile 16 when it's less than double digit miles to go. From there it's only a 5k to mile 20. Now were talking a distance left to go that most everyday runs exceed and being done in under an hour.

 

[BassNBrew]

Nice read. Amazingly consistent HR. I'd be freaking out if I had a 13 point jump from mile 1 to mile 2.

Normally, I would agree, but low to mid 170's is my race norm so it was not that big of a deal. I really was probably not even paying attention to it at that point. I think that I crossed a bridge there as well, so that going up the bridge probably accounted for me settling in and going up the bridge.

What's your HR max?

Honestly, I could not tell you, but probably around 185 I am guessing. I have never really tried to ever max it out.

You've got to be closer to 200 than 185. There's no way your doing a race this long in VO2max range. At 185 your threshold would be 168-170 and you would deplete your glyocen stores in no time. You can't digest calories fast enough to replensish above threshold.

 

[Ned]

Nice read. Amazingly consistent HR. I'd be freaking out if I had a 13 point jump from mile 1 to mile 2.

Normally, I would agree, but low to mid 170's is my race norm so it was not that big of a deal. I really was probably not even paying attention to it at that point. I think that I crossed a bridge there as well, so that going up the bridge probably accounted for me settling in and going up the bridge.

What's your HR max?

Honestly, I could not tell you, but probably around 185 I am guessing. I have never really tried to ever max it out.

First off, congrats on a well managed race. You can tell you're a seasoned vet just by reading how you adjusted to the changing conditions. Great stuff! Of course I can't resist the HR talk. I'll bet everything I got that your HR max is higher than 185 given that your normal HR for a marathon is 170-175. That's 92-95% of 185 which would put you squarely in VO2 max territory (think 5K effort). You're probably closer to 195 (I think the low 170s is my marathon range also and I'm a 195).

 

[Ned]

BnB

 

[comfortably numb]

Just did 4.5m at work

1 8:42.6 1.00 8:432 8:29.5 1.00 8:293 9:00.9 1.00 9:014 9:08.8 1.00 9:095 4:39.3 0.50 9:22Summary 40:00.9 4.50 8:54

I need to SLOW down. I am used to paces closer to 10 range.Was just gonna do 3mi, but broke out of my comfort zone and stretched my legs some for an extra 1.5.

Seems like that pace actually worked for you - how difficult was the last mile?

Wasn't difficult, could have kept going if I wanted to go further.Only been running since Jan, and haven't run too much in the last 3-4 weeks, don't want to push myself too hard.Just want to pace myself slowly for a HM later in the year.

 

[BassNBrew]

BnB

It's almost like we're attached.

 

[17seconds]

Nice read. Amazingly consistent HR. I'd be freaking out if I had a 13 point jump from mile 1 to mile 2.

Normally, I would agree, but low to mid 170's is my race norm so it was not that big of a deal. I really was probably not even paying attention to it at that point. I think that I crossed a bridge there as well, so that going up the bridge probably accounted for me settling in and going up the bridge.

What's your HR max?

Honestly, I could not tell you, but probably around 185 I am guessing. I have never really tried to ever max it out.

I'll join with the others and say no freaking way! Got to be higher.

 

[17seconds]

Nice race report PM and great effort on what looks like a tougher course.Amazing what seems to happen to everybody between miles 15 and 20. Can feel like the strongest/bounciest runner and then the deep hurting comes on.

That part of the race is the part where you're starting to get pretty tired, but you've still got a long way to go. The ability to sniff the finish line at the 22/23/24 mile mark is a big mental pick-me-up, but the finish line still seems very far away when you're at mile 18.

This I just don't get. Miles 10-12 are the worst for me. That's the point when I realize I've been running a long time, the adernaline has worn off, and I'm not even halfway there. Why did I sign up for this echos through my head. Those doldrums last until mile 16 when it's less than double digit miles to go. From there it's only a 5k to mile 20. Now were talking a distance left to go that most everyday runs exceed and being done in under an hour.

I haven't gone over 20 yet so I probably still have some endurance to build.. But I usually feel meh for the first few miles, pretty good from 3-8, start feeling some fatigue 8-11, second wind where I feel charged up 12-16, and 16+ is tough. 18+ is definitely a chore.

 

[BassNBrew]

Finally get back into the swing of things after filling my turkey tag last week.

For the hr junkies

Sunday 12 miler

1 - 9:19, 126 hr, +39 ft

2 - 9:53, 139, +92

3 - 9:30, 130, +20

4 - 9:13, 132, -92

5 - 9:44, 144, +78

6 - 9:55, 144, +69

7 - 9:41, 141, +20

8 - 9:40, 145, +36

9 - 9:23, 147, -16

10 - 9:25, 150, -20

11 - 9:17, 151, -20

12 - 9:13, 155, +4

Midday run, mostly sunny, around 80 degrees, point to point

Monday 6 miler

1 - 9:07, 136, -7

2 - 9:37, 144, +42

3 - 9:28, 137, -49

4 - 9:40, 144, +49

5 - 9:41, 141, -10

6 - 7:52, 159, -39

Evening run, sunny but approaching dusk, 85 degrees to start, loop.

Ran both of these mostly in no mans land. That will be OK for now, but really need to be spending my time in the 10s or 8s.

 

[prosopis]

I did 3 miles at 10:11 with avg HR 157. It was in the 90s and windy.My right foot is killing me to the point I can hardly walk on it. This is really getting me down. I have been rolling a golf ball with pressure on the sole of my foot. I took IBU.Here is my question for you ice guys. I have a foot basin that I filled with ice and cold water. I cant keep my foot in there because the cold is just excruciating. I can put my foot in for 10-20 seconds and then I just have to remove. I am thinking this is just me being a sissy but this ice bath for my foot is killing me. Am I doing it wrong?I have read about the whole body ice baths and I can tell you there is no way that is ever happening.Am I helping it at all by doing intermittent ice baths for 20 seconds? or am I wasting my time?* I have managed to keep it in there longer as I type this but #### it hurts.

After 1-2 minutes it goes numb and doesn't hurt.

Awesome, will let my wife know about this. Might change her mind!

but I am only lasting 20 seconds.

 

[prosopis]

I was doing ice baths (lower 1/2) pretty regularly when I was doing marathon training. It sucks for the first couple of minutes then gets better-ish.

Let's not sugar coat it. They suck shrink balls. But they work. Kinda like long repeats. :X

Fixed, and I agree on all counts. I actually wear a stocking cap so at least part of me stays warm. An adult beverage and some good tunes are a nice addition as well (yeah, yeah, yeah ...for me it's a wine spritzer and an old Carole King album).

Wraith - great job on the repeat 400s! That's excellent work to get in 12 of them ...it reflects the endurance you've been rebuilding.

 

[prosopis]

Nice race and nice report pmb

 

[pigskinliquors]

Grue and Benson: I will be saving room in my vehicle for my drive to WI this summer to bring Spotted Cow "supplies" back"

Either 1:25x or a big ol' crash and burn. Oh, well. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

No reason not to! It's the Phil Mickelson credo.

Anyone want to give me a bit of advice? I have two cycling races coming up, and well, I have never raced a bike in my life. One is a very short time trial sprint (5K), the other is a short road race (20K).

Not much else I'd add as you've gotten great advice so far. Invest in some good bike bibs; practice cornering at speed; be damn comfortable with another wheel inches from yours; constantly scan the paceline/road/surroundings ahead for danger; and learn to push one more gear than you feel comfortable pushing. Can't wait to hear about your training. Also, awesome that you are a donor!

...for me it's a wine spritzer and an old Carole King album).

NTTAWWT :unsure As "THE Tri-Man" you can drink and listen to anything you want!

.2 - 0:02:59 – 172 – I thought I was flying down the chute, but ended up at about an 8:30 pace. Still got chills crossing the line. I was a zombie going through the chute and did not know where I was at all.

That there is what keeps us coming back

* I have managed to keep it in there longer as I type this but #### it hurts.

After 1-2 minutes it goes numb and doesn't hurt.

Awesome, will let my wife know about this. Might change her mind!

but I am only lasting 20 seconds.

That's pretty darn funny! ____________________My update:I ditched the pool last night. I didn't finish work until 6:30 and our pool closes at 8:00. I knew I'd get more benefit from elliptical, but couldn't complete both in the time available. I ended up doing 75 minutes on the elliptical (new PR!), followed immediately by Ab Ripper. My legs felt good tired this morning, as I did Back and Biceps at 6:00 am. The weather looks like rain all day tomorrow, so I might miss another swim and have to do over time on the elliptical

 

[Sean]

Back out for 4 today after Sunday's meltdown. Focused on my breathing and it felt really easy. Going to try some speed work again tomorrow.

1- 8:25 147

2- 8:21 155

3- 8:23 155

4- 8:29 155

 

[Sand]

Nice read. Amazingly consistent HR. I'd be freaking out if I had a 13 point jump from mile 1 to mile 2.

Normally, I would agree, but low to mid 170's is my race norm so it was not that big of a deal. I really was probably not even paying attention to it at that point. I think that I crossed a bridge there as well, so that going up the bridge probably accounted for me settling in and going up the bridge.

What's your HR max?

Honestly, I could not tell you, but probably around 185 I am guessing. I have never really tried to ever max it out.

You've got to be closer to 200 than 185. There's no way your doing a race this long in VO2max range. At 185 your threshold would be 168-170 and you would deplete your glyocen stores in no time. You can't digest calories fast enough to replensish above threshold.

Huh - mine is 188 and in half marathons I average right at 173 - 92% of max.

 

[17seconds]

Nice read. Amazingly consistent HR. I'd be freaking out if I had a 13 point jump from mile 1 to mile 2.

Normally, I would agree, but low to mid 170's is my race norm so it was not that big of a deal. I really was probably not even paying attention to it at that point. I think that I crossed a bridge there as well, so that going up the bridge probably accounted for me settling in and going up the bridge.

What's your HR max?

Honestly, I could not tell you, but probably around 185 I am guessing. I have never really tried to ever max it out.

You've got to be closer to 200 than 185. There's no way your doing a race this long in VO2max range. At 185 your threshold would be 168-170 and you would deplete your glyocen stores in no time. You can't digest calories fast enough to replensish above threshold.

Huh - mine is 188 and in half marathons I average right at 173 - 92% of max.

I know your style is to go out fast and all.. But how is your cardio during a HM? Are you out of breath the whole way, moderately uncomfortable, or comfortable?I'd imagine you'd be in pain most of the time if you are at 92%. When I run a HM I'd call it moderately uncomfortable for most with a push the last couple of miles that just gets me out of breath.

 

[AcerFC]

I did 5.85 miles today and realized that I lied in my post about my HM.

I did run over 6 miles, but only once this year when I was on a trip to Buffalo. It was one of those things that I remembered and then felt bad that I posted. Obviously, it was an oversight and no one cares, but I wanted to come clean

Thanks for listening.

My run today was great. Wraiths post forced me to push myself a little harder.

 

[Sand]

I know your style is to go out fast and all.. But how is your cardio during a HM? Are you out of breath the whole way, moderately uncomfortable, or comfortable?I'd imagine you'd be in pain most of the time if you are at 92%. When I run a HM I'd call it moderately uncomfortable for most with a push the last couple of miles that just gets me out of breath.

Definitely uncomfortable for most of the way. The last few miles are very uncomfortable. BTW, I don't intentionally go out fast in a HM - adrenaline and all that usually does tend to spike that first mile. A 5k and 10k are different beasts, though, and I will cook those hot to start.-----Today was a 5 mile run (slow, hot, and completed) and a 2k swim. 2k swim was the suck - only managed to hit 6:32 or so for the 500 I did and was pretty much just wanting to get done and out. In the middle was an hour of coaching 12 year olds. Long day, but good work was done.

 

[BassNBrew]

Nice read. Amazingly consistent HR. I'd be freaking out if I had a 13 point jump from mile 1 to mile 2.

Normally, I would agree, but low to mid 170's is my race norm so it was not that big of a deal. I really was probably not even paying attention to it at that point. I think that I crossed a bridge there as well, so that going up the bridge probably accounted for me settling in and going up the bridge.

What's your HR max?

Honestly, I could not tell you, but probably around 185 I am guessing. I have never really tried to ever max it out.

You've got to be closer to 200 than 185. There's no way your doing a race this long in VO2max range. At 185 your threshold would be 168-170 and you would deplete your glyocen stores in no time. You can't digest calories fast enough to replensish above threshold.

Huh - mine is 188 and in half marathons I average right at 173 - 92% of max.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Daniels_(coach)Marathon (M) pace At 80-90% HRmax, this intensity is primarily aimed towards runners training for the marathon. The pace is one at which the runner hopes to complete. The pace can be included in other programs for a more intense workout, especially if the runner feels fresh and there is enough time to recover afterwards. M-runs are performed as continuous runs up to about two hours, or as long interval training. [edit] Threshold (T) pace At 88-92% HRmax, this intensity is aimed to raise the lactate threshold. The runner should be able to sustain this pace for up to 60 minutes during racing. Daniels describe this intensity as "comfortably hard". In elite runners, the pace matches the half marathon one, while less trained runners will run at around 10k pace. Daniels points out the importance of keeping the given pace to reap the benefits of the training.

T runs are typically performed as continuous "tempo" runs for 20 minutes or more, or as "cruise" interval training with 3 to 10 long bouts of about 3 to 15 minutes each, having 20%-25% rest intervals in between. "T" runs of longer than 20 minutes can be done at slightly reduced pace, according to a table in his book. No more than 10% of the weekly miles should be run in T pace.

Either you are elite or you are underestimating your max hr...more likely a combination of the two. Once you cross the threshold you'll burn glycogen stores and start producing latic acid. Do this for to long and your performance will tail off.

 

[Ned]

What's your HR max?

Honestly, I could not tell you, but probably around 185 I am guessing. I have never really tried to ever max it out.

You've got to be closer to 200 than 185. There's no way your doing a race this long in VO2max range. At 185 your threshold would be 168-170 and you would deplete your glyocen stores in no time. You can't digest calories fast enough to replensish above threshold.

Huh - mine is 188 and in half marathons I average right at 173 - 92% of max.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Daniels_(coach)

Marathon (M) pace

At 80-90% HRmax, this intensity is primarily aimed towards runners training for the marathon. The pace is one at which the runner hopes to complete. The pace can be included in other programs for a more intense workout, especially if the runner feels fresh and there is enough time to recover afterwards.

M-runs are performed as continuous runs up to about two hours, or as long interval training.

[edit] Threshold (T) pace

At 88-92% HRmax, this intensity is aimed to raise the lactate threshold. The runner should be able to sustain this pace for up to 60 minutes during racing. Daniels describe this intensity as "comfortably hard". In elite runners, the pace matches the half marathon one, while less trained runners will run at around 10k pace. Daniels points out the importance of keeping the given pace to reap the benefits of the training.

T runs are typically performed as continuous "tempo" runs for 20 minutes or more, or as "cruise" interval training with 3 to 10 long bouts of about 3 to 15 minutes each, having 20%-25% rest intervals in between. "T" runs of longer than 20 minutes can be done at slightly reduced pace, according to a table in his book. No more than 10% of the weekly miles should be run in T pace.

Either you are elite or you are underestimating your max hr...more likely a combination of the two. Once you cross the threshold you'll burn glycogen stores and start producing latic acid. Do this for to long and your performance will tail off.

That link is a perfect summary for anyone trying to learn about HR training. Figure out your max HR and then back into the percentages in that link and you'll be training much more efficiently than most other runners. It also reinforces what we were talking about a page back (tempo/speed work should be a very small amount of your overall volume).

Easy / Long (E/L) pace

At 65-79% of maximum heart rate (HRmax), this non-straining intensity is used for recovery runs, warm-up, cool-down and long runs. The primary purpose is to build a base for more intense workouts by strengthening the heart and increasing the muscles' ability to use oxygen, and to recover between hard workouts. Daniels recommends that most training miles are performed in E pace.

Typical E runs include continuous runs up to about an hour.

Threshold (T) pace

No more than 10% of the weekly miles should be run in T pace.

Interval (I) pace

Intensity at 98-100 % HRmax. This intensity stresses the VO2max to raise the maximum oxygen uptake capacity. Since the pace is very intense, it can only be sustained for up to 12 minutes during racing. To cope with the intensity, and to train for longer periods of time, this training is performed as interval training, hence the name. The interval between each work bout should be a little less than the time of the work bout. Optimum intervals are 3-5 minutes long. There is no benefit to exceeding 5 minutes at this pace, under Daniels' theory, which means that despite the popularity of mile-repeats in many running groups, Daniels discourages them for people whose pace is slower than about 5:00/mile, preferring shorter intervals such as 1200 meters.

For example, an I session can be 6 x 800 m at I pace with 400 m recovery jogs. At most 8% of the weekly training miles should be I pace.

Repetition ® pace

R pace is very fast training aimed to improve speed and running economy. The training is performed as short interval training, with typically 200 m, 300 m, or 400 m work outs, with full recovery intervals in between. No more than 5% of the weekly miles should be R pace.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Grue and Benson: I will be saving room in my vehicle for my drive to WI this summer to bring Spotted Cow "supplies" back" ____________________My update:I ditched the pool last night. I didn't finish work until 6:30 and our pool closes at 8:00. I knew I'd get more benefit from elliptical, but couldn't complete both in the time available. I ended up doing 75 minutes on the elliptical (new PR!), followed immediately by Ab Ripper. My legs felt good tired this morning, as I did Back and Biceps at 6:00 am. The weather looks like rain all day tomorrow, so I might miss another swim and have to do over time on the elliptical

Where you coming from? I always brought supplies down to my ex gf's family in KY...they loved the Cow.Congrats on the elliptical PR...never thought about it before...but I set my elliptical PR on sunday(my cross training for now) too!

 

[pmbrown_22]

So, I guess that I was off on the Max Heart Rate, but I was just guessing and have never tested it to see what my max is.

Question though since BNB brought up depleting the glycogen stores. I will have to re-read the books that I have, but aren't your glycogen stores not depleted as quickly because you are taking in GU and gatorade along the course, so I would think that it would prolong your use of your stores a bit. I do agree that I depleted mine as evident by my times over the last 6 miles. I know I still have some build up as I have not had time to roll it out yet. I can see depleting it really quickly if you have no intake, but I thought that was the point of those runs (The T and I runs). I have not read Daniels at all and this is all new to me. It is very interesting though.

 

[Ned]

So, I guess that I was off on the Max Heart Rate, but I was just guessing and have never tested it to see what my max is.Question though since BNB brought up depleting the glycogen stores. I will have to re-read the books that I have, but aren't your glycogen stores not depleted as quickly because you are taking in GU and gatorade along the course, so I would think that it would prolong your use of your stores a bit. I do agree that I depleted mine as evident by my times over the last 6 miles. I know I still have some build up as I have not had time to roll it out yet. I can see depleting it really quickly if you have no intake, but I thought that was the point of those runs (The T and I runs). I have not read Daniels at all and this is all new to me. It is very interesting though.

It's a balancing act. Fueling during the marathon definitely helps stave off the full glycogen depletion (wall or bonk), but if you run too fast (i.e. HR too high), you're burning faster than your body is going to be able to replenish. That's why HR data is so useful. Bonks usually sneak up on us because we don't see it coming. Having the HR data available, and knowing your correct ranges, will help manage it more efficiently.

 

[tri-man 47]

So, I guess that I was off on the Max Heart Rate, but I was just guessing and have never tested it to see what my max is.Question though since BNB brought up depleting the glycogen stores. I will have to re-read the books that I have, but aren't your glycogen stores not depleted as quickly because you are taking in GU and gatorade along the course, so I would think that it would prolong your use of your stores a bit. I do agree that I depleted mine as evident by my times over the last 6 miles. I know I still have some build up as I have not had time to roll it out yet. I can see depleting it really quickly if you have no intake, but I thought that was the point of those runs (The T and I runs). I have not read Daniels at all and this is all new to me. It is very interesting though.

It's a balancing act. Fueling during the marathon definitely helps stave off the full glycogen depletion (wall or bonk), but if you run too fast (i.e. HR too high), you're burning faster than your body is going to be able to replenish. That's why HR data is so useful. Bonks usually sneak up on us because we don't see it coming. Having the HR data available, and knowing your correct ranges, will help manage it more efficiently.

The thing I've noticed with my past two races (with a HR focus) is the mental aspect. By monitoring HR, my mind focuses on that. I see that I'm in an appropriate range, and I feel confident to proceed. My mind doesn't pick up on the negative stimuli of hard breathing, getting passed by others, x miles to go, etc. Instead, it's the HR that dominates my thoughts ..it becomes very analytical, very technical. It's as though my mind is so absorbed in the data that it doesn't get a chance to 'go negative' on me.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Where you coming from? I always brought supplies down to my ex gf's family in KY...they loved the Cow.

I'll be driving from College Station, TX to the Platteville area (your old stomping grounds!) somewhere around the 18th of July. I'll spend some time there with family (and leave my daughters with my sister), then take a shuttle bus from Dodgeville to Sioux Center, IA on the 21st of July to get to the starting line of RAGBRAI. I'll meet four friends there, and we'll ride the 471 mile trek across Iowa while consuming as much beer as humanly possible. We have paid one of the riders sons to drive an RV on the route. He'll close up our camp every night, then drive to pick up supplies (mostly beer and some food), then meet us at each days ending point to help us . Once the race is over I'll likely spend a couple more nights at my sister's house (with my girls) before heading back to TX. re: the HR discussion = my Max is 195, and my last marathon (FWIW) I averaged 174. It was a brutal run, and I ran my slowest overall time, but I was proud of how I was able to hang on. I unfortunately didn't have HR for any of my other marathons.

For cycling, I use HR just the opposite. I use it to know when to push it harder. It is very easy to get too comfortable on a bike, and to let your HR dip down. HR monitoring gives you a constant reminder to push the pedals. My PR on the bike for a century, and likely the hardest I've ever worked on a bike, had me with a HR AVE of only 165. It is much lower bc there can be long stretches where you are in a paceline and not working nearly as hard as you would to keep yourself moving while running.

 

[gruecd]

[work rant]

I hate it when people who aren't financial professionals think they know how to do my job better than I do.



[/work rant]

 

[gruecd]

I'll be driving from College Station, TX to the Platteville area (your old stomping grounds!) somewhere around the 18th of July.

Dude. It just so happens that I'll be driving from Appleton to Cedar Rapids, IA, on Thursday afternoon, July 19. I'll be driving right by Platteville....

 

[Ned]

Where you coming from? I always brought supplies down to my ex gf's family in KY...they loved the Cow.

re: the HR discussion = my Max is 195, and my last marathon (FWIW) I averaged 174. It was a brutal run, and I ran my slowest overall time, but I was proud of how I was able to hang on. I unfortunately didn't have HR for any of my other marathons.For cycling, I use HR just the opposite. I use it to know when to push it harder. It is very easy to get too comfortable on a bike, and to let your HR dip down. HR monitoring gives you a constant reminder to push the pedals. My PR on the bike for a century, and likely the hardest I've ever worked on a bike, had me with a HR AVE of only 165. It is much lower bc there can be long stretches where you are in a paceline and not working nearly as hard as you would to keep yourself moving while running

Granted I was sick, but my last marathon avg HR was 173. My max is also 195. The HR training book I've been reading does say that each sport should be treated differently with regards to HR monitoring. Interesting...

 

[pigskinliquors]

I'll be driving from College Station, TX to the Platteville area (your old stomping grounds!) somewhere around the 18th of July.

Dude. It just so happens that I'll be driving from Appleton to Cedar Rapids, IA, on Thursday afternoon, July 19. I'll be driving right by Platteville....

Dooooood! Cornhole in Platteville?!! Other WI area FBG's?? Unfortunately the town's slogan, is "Where the men are men, and so are the women." I'll also be in Cedar Rapids on the 27th if you are still there.

 

[pigskinliquors]

Granted I was sick, but my last marathon avg HR was 173. My max is also 195. The HR training book I've been reading does say that each sport should be treated differently with regards to HR monitoring. Interesting...

 

[gruecd]

I'll be driving from College Station, TX to the Platteville area (your old stomping grounds!) somewhere around the 18th of July.

Dude. It just so happens that I'll be driving from Appleton to Cedar Rapids, IA, on Thursday afternoon, July 19. I'll be driving right by Platteville....

Dooooood! Cornhole in Platteville?!! Other WI area FBG's?? Unfortunately the town's slogan, is "Where the men are men, and so are the women." I'll also be in Cedar Rapids on the 27th if you are still there.

No, it's just a quick in-and-out. Kinda like 2Young's sex life. I have a meeting bright and early the next morning in Cedar Rapids, so I can't do anything crazy, but I can definitely stop for a beer and a burger on the way down. Staying with a buddy in Rapids on Friday night and then heading back on Saturday.

 

[2Young2BBald]

No, it's just a quick in-and-out. Kinda like 2Young's sex life.

I dominate the Mini Me Division here as well. Wait, :finger: