Ran a 10k in June (29 Viewers)

[SteveC702]

Ned - Sounds like you've been doing some solid training despite what you think. I forgot, did you have a target race coming up?

Koby- Sorry to hear about the continuing issues. I don't really have much else to offer besides the massage advice from Ned above. Does it bother you much when you just run easy? Sometimes it might help to just do easy runs for a couple of weeks for the legs to loosen up. Another thing I have noticed with doing speed workouts the last few years is that I get tight/sore if I am fighting too hard to hit goal times. Maybe something like fartleks on the road would get similar training stimulus without the same beat-up effects? (something like 10-15x90s on, 90s off?) Just throwing some ideas out there, but you know your body the best obviously.

 

[gruecd]

Long-term forecast is saying overnight low of 40 #######' degrees on Saturday, September 21. Hoping like all hell that holds!!!

:drool:

Man I bet it's awesome to run in those temps..

It's amazing. My two best marathons had starting temps in the low 30s (3:06:10 at Chicago '09) and low 40s (2:59:48 at Milwaukee '11).

 

[tri-man 47]

Long-term forecast is saying overnight low of 40 #######' degrees on Saturday, September 21. Hoping like all hell that holds!!!

'twould be nice, wouldn't it?!

I ran a couple of shake-out miles yesterday, and today I did 5 miles with 3 miles of increasing tempo - 8:10, 7:40, 7:10. It felt good!

 

[koby925]

Ned - Sounds like you've been doing some solid training despite what you think. I forgot, did you have a target race coming up?

Koby- Sorry to hear about the continuing issues. I don't really have much else to offer besides the massage advice from Ned above. Does it bother you much when you just run easy? Sometimes it might help to just do easy runs for a couple of weeks for the legs to loosen up. Another thing I have noticed with doing speed workouts the last few years is that I get tight/sore if I am fighting too hard to hit goal times. Maybe something like fartleks on the road would get similar training stimulus without the same beat-up effects? (something like 10-15x90s on, 90s off?) Just throwing some ideas out there, but you know your body the best obviously.

I really haven't been running very hard on runs lately. And only 4-6.5 miles per. Some runs have gotten into the sub 7s midway through or so but, again, not something I wasn't doing last year. As much as I want to do this road mile next weekend, I think it's probably a bad idea healthwise. Because of the race itself and because I feel like I have to rush in workouts like Tuesday. I've thought about bagging interval/track type speedwork altogether like you say. I know there are differing opinions of this, especially when you get older. Some think you need it more than ever but some think it does more harm than good. I know guys who are 35+ who only do tempo or fartleks for speed. Then their races serve as additional speedwork. And they race well. I do love the speed stuff but it may be hurting more than helping.

 

[SteveC702]

I have come to the realization over the last couple of years that even if I am running faster than I did in my HS/college days (or at least I was a few months ago before this damn ITBS detour) I definitely can't handle the same workouts as well. I went the "strength over speed" route and made sure I got in quality MP/tempo sessions with the occasional VO2max/5K-pace workouts, so pretty similar to the 35-40 somethings you describe.

Last summer I was training for a track mile and did a weekly workout of 10-12x400s @ goal pace with 400m jog and felt like I got really beat up by these sessions and was hanging on in the last 2-3 reps. Then, a month ago during my most recent buildup I jumped into a workout with a local track club where the session was similar to the 400 workout I was doing last year by design. (8x400s with 1 lap jog in between). The difference was that we waited in between each rep for everyone to catch up. So I was getting about 3-3:30 rest instead of 2:00 when I did the workout by myself last summer. I won't go into the exact math, but I ran the 8x400s session about 4-5s faster per rep than I expected based on my 5K from the previous weekend, and not only that I believe it's the first workout I ran since college where I got faster with each rep. I also felt like I was running with good/better form than usual and the next day I felt no different than any other day where I did a hard workout. (tired but not super sore)

My takeaway from the session is that I should stop trying to "replicate" or "beat" my workout sessions from my HS/college days (both in terms of average rep time and in terms of how much rest I was taking). Focus on the point of the workout (to build speed and/or to get the body used to running fast) and take more rest if needed. I know in Jack Daniels Running Formula he advocates taking 2-4 times your rep times as recovery when you are doing speed workouts where you are running mile race pace or faster. (so for someone running 75s 400s, you can take 2:30-5:00). My problem is that in the past I tried to go with the lower end and knock out the 400m recovery lap in 2 minutes or so, and while I felt ready to go, the extra 60-90s got me to the "full recovery" point.

So... TLR - try taking more recovery/rest time in between reps. Maybe 3-4 times your reps. (so 3:30-4:00 if you are running 70-80s 400s).

 

[Ned]

Ned - Sounds like you've been doing some solid training despite what you think. I forgot, did you have a target race coming up?

Koby- Sorry to hear about the continuing issues. I don't really have much else to offer besides the massage advice from Ned above. Does it bother you much when you just run easy? Sometimes it might help to just do easy runs for a couple of weeks for the legs to loosen up. Another thing I have noticed with doing speed workouts the last few years is that I get tight/sore if I am fighting too hard to hit goal times. Maybe something like fartleks on the road would get similar training stimulus without the same beat-up effects? (something like 10-15x90s on, 90s off?) Just throwing some ideas out there, but you know your body the best obviously.

I'm very anal about following my plan, so when that all went out the window this summer I felt very lost. And still do to a point. It's water under the bridge, but I still have that nagging thought in the back of my mind that I'm 250 miles behind. Doing my best to move forward and probably being my own worst critic......

I'm training for the Philly marathon on 11/17. I haven't really publicized my goals for this, but..... My PR from last year is 3:31 and I feel like with another 2 years of dedicated work I can get a BQ (3:10). The goal for this year was to just put in another solid 18/70 type schedule and hopefully trim the gap down; the hopes being I can make a serious run at 3:10 in 2014 sometime. With all that's happened this summer, I don't know where this all fits in. So for right now I'm just getting my legs back under me and see how things shape up.

 

[Ned]

Long-term forecast is saying overnight low of 40 #######' degrees on Saturday, September 21. Hoping like all hell that holds!!!

'twould be nice, wouldn't it?!

I ran a couple of shake-out miles yesterday, and today I did 5 miles with 3 miles of increasing tempo - 8:10, 7:40, 7:10. It felt good!

Amazing you can do this T+5.

 

[MAC_32]

I'm a china doll and can't handle the heat/humidity like the studly Hang10.

Sig worthy.

I think battling through the heat/humidity during training makes running in optimal conditions much easier (err, faster). In order to maximize output I think you need to be able to finish strong through discomfort. Had my first real exposure to that today, 71/50 right now. Completed a 3 mile trail route in under 20 minutes. The sort of trails you can't bike through. Steep hills, ravines, bridges, mud, tight turns, roots, stairs built into embankments, etc. I think all of those 90/70 runs during the summer helped significantly.

 

[sho nuff]

Im with you Ned on a few things.

A. Ive been struggling with the heat and humidity the past few weeks. Been grinding through some things but have definitely been suffering.

B. I like to stay with my plan...when I get away from it...things go bad. This with the heat and humidity have been killing me. Kids and things have gotten in the way a few times and have missed some days running...coupled with this not being a race with a huge goal and Ive slacked some. Just have to HTFU and get back to my plan and stick with it. Hopefully getting some cooler weather to go with it.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Grue, tri, and you other upper MW folks - I'm on my way to Milwaukee right now, just have tonight before a morning meeting tomorrow and flying back out. I'm staying at the Hilton City Center on W. Wisconsin Ave. Any suggestions on a good sports bar in the area to watch some NFL tonight? And are there any nearby parks/bike paths/trails around if i find time to squeeze in a run?

I've stayed at that hotel many times. For a sports bar, I'd probably go to Major Goolsby's. It's less than a half-mile from your hotel, so you can walk there. Your hotel is on the corner of Wisconsin and 5th. Just walk east on Wisconsin to 4th, and then go north on 4th until you hit Kilbourn. Goolsby's is on the NE corner of the intersection.If you decide to run, just go east on Wisconsin until you hit the lakeshore (a mile or so) and then head north on the bike path.

Hit me on Facebook if you need anything else.

Thanks, I headed down to the lake and ran around there and Vets Park a bit this morning, a nice sunrise run!

Now at the airport drinking another Spotted Cow, thanks for that suggestion as well!

 

[FUBAR]

my MP3 player just broke and I have LSD run scheduled tomorrow!

I hate carrying my phone on runs, but it looks like I'll have to until I buy a new one.

 

[MAC_32]

my MP3 player just broke and I have LSD run scheduled tomorrow!

I hate carrying my phone on runs, but it looks like I'll have to until I buy a new one.

have you tried slacker?

 

[tri-man 47]

my MP3 player just broke and I have LSD run scheduled tomorrow!

I hate carrying my phone on runs, but it looks like I'll have to until I buy a new one.

have you tried slacker?

Have you tried just running without the music? It works for me.

 

[MAC_32]

my MP3 player just broke and I have LSD run scheduled tomorrow!

I hate carrying my phone on runs, but it looks like I'll have to until I buy a new one.

have you tried slacker?

Have you tried just running without the music? It works for me.

yes, it doesn't work for me. Lose focus too easily.

 

[prosopis]

I have been doing some Krav Maga stuff and I did something to my left upper thigh/glute area. I can not stretch it out with out quite a bit of pain. It is certainly much tighter then my right side. Any way I was looking to buy a foam roller and was wondering what you guys recommend. I see some with nubs on them for deep tissue and I see some that are just rollers. I am always looking for the best deal as well. I assume I can just do you tube to learn how to use one once I get it, correct?

Thanks in advance.

I was hoping to go out for a nice slow 9-10 miles tomorrow but I will wait and see how I feel in the morning with this tightness. That Krav Maga stuff is fun and a great cardio workout but I do see it as a injury waiting to happen if you are not careful and even if you are careful. Saw a guy break a toe last night.

 

[Hang 10]

my MP3 player just broke and I have LSD run scheduled tomorrow!

I hate carrying my phone on runs, but it looks like I'll have to until I buy a new one.

have you tried slacker?

Have you tried just running without the music? It works for me.

yes, it doesn't work for me. Lose focus too easily.

You lose focus on your running when you don't have music to distract you?

 

[Ned]

my MP3 player just broke and I have LSD run scheduled tomorrow!

I hate carrying my phone on runs, but it looks like I'll have to until I buy a new one.

have you tried slacker?

Have you tried just running without the music? It works for me.

yes, it doesn't work for me. Lose focus too easily.

You lose focus on your running when you don't have music to distract you?

Lose the crutch, man. It's liberating.

 

[MAC_32]

my MP3 player just broke and I have LSD run scheduled tomorrow!

I hate carrying my phone on runs, but it looks like I'll have to until I buy a new one.

have you tried slacker?

Have you tried just running without the music? It works for me.

yes, it doesn't work for me. Lose focus too easily.

You lose focus on your running when you don't have music to distract you?

yep, it keeps me dialed in.

 

[MAC_32]

http://m.runnersworld.com/workout-music/running-music-0?page=single

 

[MAC_32]

http://m.active.com/running/Articles/Can-Music-Make-You-a-Better-Runner

 

[MAC_32]

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-running-blog/2013/mar/13/running-with-music-for-against

Last one.

 

[FUBAR]

my MP3 player just broke and I have LSD run scheduled tomorrow!

I hate carrying my phone on runs, but it looks like I'll have to until I buy a new one.

have you tried slacker?

Have you tried just running without the music? It works for me.

yes, it doesn't work for me. Lose focus too easily.

How would one use slacker without a player or phone?

Every so often i will run without music or audio book, usually not but it depends on mood. today i wanted to listen to General Powell's book.

 

[FUBAR]

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-running-blog/2013/mar/13/running-with-music-for-against

Last one.

Some good points are made here, which mirror the reasons i will occasionally go without. Speed sessions i almost always listen to music, most long runs i listen to books for half the run. Recovery days are good days to go without, listen to your body and enjoy your surroundings.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I have come to the realization over the last couple of years that even if I am running faster than I did in my HS/college days (or at least I was a few months ago before this damn ITBS detour) I definitely can't handle the same workouts as well. I went the "strength over speed" route and made sure I got in quality MP/tempo sessions with the occasional VO2max/5K-pace workouts, so pretty similar to the 35-40 somethings you describe.

Last summer I was training for a track mile and did a weekly workout of 10-12x400s @ goal pace with 400m jog and felt like I got really beat up by these sessions and was hanging on in the last 2-3 reps. Then, a month ago during my most recent buildup I jumped into a workout with a local track club where the session was similar to the 400 workout I was doing last year by design. (8x400s with 1 lap jog in between). The difference was that we waited in between each rep for everyone to catch up. So I was getting about 3-3:30 rest instead of 2:00 when I did the workout by myself last summer. I won't go into the exact math, but I ran the 8x400s session about 4-5s faster per rep than I expected based on my 5K from the previous weekend, and not only that I believe it's the first workout I ran since college where I got faster with each rep. I also felt like I was running with good/better form than usual and the next day I felt no different than any other day where I did a hard workout. (tired but not super sore)

My takeaway from the session is that I should stop trying to "replicate" or "beat" my workout sessions from my HS/college days (both in terms of average rep time and in terms of how much rest I was taking). Focus on the point of the workout (to build speed and/or to get the body used to running fast) and take more rest if needed. I know in Jack Daniels Running Formula he advocates taking 2-4 times your rep times as recovery when you are doing speed workouts where you are running mile race pace or faster. (so for someone running 75s 400s, you can take 2:30-5:00). My problem is that in the past I tried to go with the lower end and knock out the 400m recovery lap in 2 minutes or so, and while I felt ready to go, the extra 60-90s got me to the "full recovery" point.

So... TLR - try taking more recovery/rest time in between reps. Maybe 3-4 times your reps. (so 3:30-4:00 if you are running 70-80s 400s).

Could you elaborate a little on the recovery issue? I always thought you weren't supposed to get "full recovery" in between intervals, and that you should be targeting ~100% of your interval time for your recovery period. Is your approach something unique to mile training?

 

[prosopis]

I have been doing some Krav Maga stuff and I did something to my left upper thigh/glute area. I can not stretch it out with out quite a bit of pain. It is certainly much tighter then my right side. Any way I was looking to buy a foam roller and was wondering what you guys recommend. I see some with nubs on them for deep tissue and I see some that are just rollers. I am always looking for the best deal as well. I assume I can just do you tube to learn how to use one once I get it, correct?

Thanks in advance.

I was hoping to go out for a nice slow 9-10 miles tomorrow but I will wait and see how I feel in the morning with this tightness. That Krav Maga stuff is fun and a great cardio workout but I do see it as a injury waiting to happen if you are not careful and even if you are careful. Saw a guy break a toe last night.

Looking to order one today if anyone has some advice on which one.

 

[beer 302]

pro, watch those side projects. Couple guys at work do that stuff and they are constantly tweaked. Hate to see it hinder the running. Sadly I have no advice on the roller other than I'd get one with nubs just to work the deep tissue.

Agree with Ned on the music, I cut the cord earlier this year and its been super cool. Tunes you right in to your surroundings.

AND for the first time in forever, I ran/walked a 5k today on the treadmill. Ankle burned at the end and I could feel the tendon but came home, iced the crap out of it while doing a deep tissue message with the ice and so far so good. Felt good to run, lotta stuff not used to running that will take some time to get back but good to start back up!

 

[2Young2BBald]

I have been doing some Krav Maga stuff and I did something to my left upper thigh/glute area. I can not stretch it out with out quite a bit of pain. It is certainly much tighter then my right side. Any way I was looking to buy a foam roller and was wondering what you guys recommend. I see some with nubs on them for deep tissue and I see some that are just rollers. I am always looking for the best deal as well. I assume I can just do you tube to learn how to use one once I get it, correct?

Thanks in advance.

I was hoping to go out for a nice slow 9-10 miles tomorrow but I will wait and see how I feel in the morning with this tightness. That Krav Maga stuff is fun and a great cardio workout but I do see it as a injury waiting to happen if you are not careful and even if you are careful. Saw a guy break a toe last night.

Looking to order one today if anyone has some advice on which one.

Go cheap on the roller and just get the basic white foam one. With the $ you saved, buy The Stick http://www.amazon.com/The-Stick-6628-Marathon/dp/B000P7NWLM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1378579976&sr=8-2&keywords=the+stick I only use the foam roller from time to time but use the stick all the time.

 

[2Young2BBald]

My son is BACK on varsity XC for Tuesday's race and sure ran like he wanted to be there. He finished 16th in the JV race today out of 310 runners with a 19:12 and probably would have run sub 19 if the pack start had not been such a mess. Instead of being paced, he paced a couple of his team mates through mile 2 and then ran away from them in the last mile.

 

[koby925]

I've been ice bathing like crazy and the legs are still really sore to start but at least they are loosening somewhat. Ran 6+ this morning. Became friendly with a couple here and the guy does Ultra and adventure races. He texts me this morning - "Want to run tomorrow? Figured 90 mins or 2 hours or so" You ultra guys are nuts. Told him I don't know about a couple hours but I'd do 7-8 miles with him.

 

[koby925]

My son is BACK on varsity XC for Tuesday's race and sure ran like he wanted to be there. He finished 16th in the JV race today out of 310 runners with a 19:12 and probably would have run sub 19 if the pack start had not been such a mess. Instead of being paced, he paced a couple of his team mates through mile 2 and then ran away from them in the last mile.

Awesome! The times keep coming down and back to Varsity. Congrats

 

[SteveC702]

I have come to the realization over the last couple of years that even if I am running faster than I did in my HS/college days (or at least I was a few months ago before this damn ITBS detour) I definitely can't handle the same workouts as well. I went the "strength over speed" route and made sure I got in quality MP/tempo sessions with the occasional VO2max/5K-pace workouts, so pretty similar to the 35-40 somethings you describe.

Last summer I was training for a track mile and did a weekly workout of 10-12x400s @ goal pace with 400m jog and felt like I got really beat up by these sessions and was hanging on in the last 2-3 reps. Then, a month ago during my most recent buildup I jumped into a workout with a local track club where the session was similar to the 400 workout I was doing last year by design. (8x400s with 1 lap jog in between). The difference was that we waited in between each rep for everyone to catch up. So I was getting about 3-3:30 rest instead of 2:00 when I did the workout by myself last summer. I won't go into the exact math, but I ran the 8x400s session about 4-5s faster per rep than I expected based on my 5K from the previous weekend, and not only that I believe it's the first workout I ran since college where I got faster with each rep. I also felt like I was running with good/better form than usual and the next day I felt no different than any other day where I did a hard workout. (tired but not super sore)

My takeaway from the session is that I should stop trying to "replicate" or "beat" my workout sessions from my HS/college days (both in terms of average rep time and in terms of how much rest I was taking). Focus on the point of the workout (to build speed and/or to get the body used to running fast) and take more rest if needed. I know in Jack Daniels Running Formula he advocates taking 2-4 times your rep times as recovery when you are doing speed workouts where you are running mile race pace or faster. (so for someone running 75s 400s, you can take 2:30-5:00). My problem is that in the past I tried to go with the lower end and knock out the 400m recovery lap in 2 minutes or so, and while I felt ready to go, the extra 60-90s got me to the "full recovery" point.

So... TLR - try taking more recovery/rest time in between reps. Maybe 3-4 times your reps. (so 3:30-4:00 if you are running 70-80s 400s).

Could you elaborate a little on the recovery issue? I always thought you weren't supposed to get "full recovery" in between intervals, and that you should be targeting ~100% of your interval time for your recovery period. Is your approach something unique to mile training?

My basic understanding of Jack Daniels Running Formula. (which I base a lot of my training off of, since it seems to be one of the most scientific out there) is that there are basically 5-6 basic paces/zones.

1) (E - pace)Easy runs. (I don't know the exact percentage of your VO2max you are supposed to hit on these, I think they are generally like 20-30% over your marathon pace, I just go slower on the days that I need to but try not to exceed his prescribed easy pace)

2) (M - pace) Marathon Pace runs. (usually about 10-15 miles per week done at this pace, exception is when you run a marathon)

3) (T - pace) Threshold/tempo runs. He defines it as the pace at which you can race for an hour. So for his elites/sub-elites this falls in between their 10M/Half-Marathon pace. He does point out that for some beginning runners this can be equivalent to 10K pace, so you should train at closer to 10K pace if you are slower.

4) (I - pace) This is V02max pace. He defines it as somewhere between 3K/5K pace. (I think it might also be defined similarly as T-pace where it's the pace you can race at for x-y minutes, it may be 10-15 minutes but again I don't have his book in front of me). When you train at R-pace, you want to do no more than 6 miles worth of work, intervals should last for no more than 5 minutes, and your recovery period should be around 50-90% of your interval time.

So a R-workout for a 16:30-16:40 5K guy (5:20/mi pace) would look like 12x800 @ 2:40 with recovery between 1:20-2:24.

5) (R - pace) This is defined as roughly mile race pace. When you do intervals at this pace the emphasis is on economy and efficiency while running at this speed so you want full recovery (achieved by taking 2-4 times your interval for your recovery period). For a 5-min miler this workout would look something like 10x400 @ 75s with 2:30-5:00 rest.

There is also a "F"(fast) pace that he talks about for 800 meter runners, and he has a table where you basically run 200s/400s at those paces. (I think they are equivalent to your 800m pace or slightly faster). I think I have missed my window for maximizing my potential as an 800 meter runner so I only read through it a couple of time and don't remember anything more specific than that.

 

[SteveC702]

My son is BACK on varsity XC for Tuesday's race and sure ran like he wanted to be there. He finished 16th in the JV race today out of 310 runners with a 19:12 and probably would have run sub 19 if the pack start had not been such a mess. Instead of being paced, he paced a couple of his team mates through mile 2 and then ran away from them in the last mile.

Nice work! I find the strategy of running negative splits (or at least going out "easy" for the first mile or first half of the race) to be extremely rewarding in HS XC as runners tend to go out way too fast, even more so than open road races I run now.

 

[SFBayDuck]

I've been ice bathing like crazy and the legs are still really sore to start but at least they are loosening somewhat. Ran 6+ this morning. Became friendly with a couple here and the guy does Ultra and adventure races. He texts me this morning - "Want to run tomorrow? Figured 90 mins or 2 hours or so" You ultra guys are nuts. Told him I don't know about a couple hours but I'd do 7-8 miles with him.

90 minutes to two hours? I'm looking forward to dialing back to that next weekend on my down week. My last three weekends were 4+ hour runs, and tomorrow will be the same.

Of course on a decent trail for my slow ###, 8 miles is 90 minutes......

 

[BassNBrew]

No luck getting an Umstead entry this year. Will know about Mt. Mitchell on Monday and Shut-In sometime late next week. Worst part about ultra running is actually getting into an event.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Could you elaborate a little on the recovery issue? I always thought you weren't supposed to get "full recovery" in between intervals, and that you should be targeting ~100% of your interval time for your recovery period. Is your approach something unique to mile training?

My basic understanding of Jack Daniels Running Formula. (which I base a lot of my training off of, since it seems to be one of the most scientific out there) is that there are basically 5-6 basic paces/zones.

1) (E - pace)Easy runs. (I don't know the exact percentage of your VO2max you are supposed to hit on these, I think they are generally like 20-30% over your marathon pace, I just go slower on the days that I need to but try not to exceed his prescribed easy pace)

2) (M - pace) Marathon Pace runs. (usually about 10-15 miles per week done at this pace, exception is when you run a marathon)

3) (T - pace) Threshold/tempo runs. He defines it as the pace at which you can race for an hour. So for his elites/sub-elites this falls in between their 10M/Half-Marathon pace. He does point out that for some beginning runners this can be equivalent to 10K pace, so you should train at closer to 10K pace if you are slower.

4) (I - pace) This is V02max pace. He defines it as somewhere between 3K/5K pace. (I think it might also be defined similarly as T-pace where it's the pace you can race at for x-y minutes, it may be 10-15 minutes but again I don't have his book in front of me). When you train at R-pace, you want to do no more than 6 miles worth of work, intervals should last for no more than 5 minutes, and your recovery period should be around 50-90% of your interval time.

So a R-workout for a 16:30-16:40 5K guy (5:20/mi pace) would look like 12x800 @ 2:40 with recovery between 1:20-2:24.

5) (R - pace) This is defined as roughly mile race pace. When you do intervals at this pace the emphasis is on economy and efficiency while running at this speed so you want full recovery (achieved by taking 2-4 times your interval for your recovery period). For a 5-min miler this workout would look something like 10x400 @ 75s with 2:30-5:00 rest.

There is also a "F"(fast) pace that he talks about for 800 meter runners, and he has a table where you basically run 200s/400s at those paces. (I think they are equivalent to your 800m pace or slightly faster). I think I have missed my window for maximizing my potential as an 800 meter runner so I only read through it a couple of time and don't remember anything more specific than that.

Thanks. I figured this was something distance-related.

 

[SFBayDuck]

No luck getting an Umstead entry this year. Will know about Mt. Mitchell on Monday and Shut-In sometime late next week. Worst part about ultra running is actually getting into an event.

Bummer, is Umstead a lottery?

I'm obviously facing the same issue with my <10% chance to get into Western States via lottery. But I do have a backup 100 picked out in September that I should be able to get into.

 

[Ned]

Solid 18 this morning @ 9:07/146, but had some fade at the end. I ran up past my Mom's house that has some good sized hills, which were at miles 7-11. I will be making a concerted effort to seek out hills while doing my long runs now that I'm getting some traction. I can't let the hills at miles 18-20 get me like they did at last year's marathon.

 

[koby925]

I've been ice bathing like crazy and the legs are still really sore to start but at least they are loosening somewhat. Ran 6+ this morning. Became friendly with a couple here and the guy does Ultra and adventure races. He texts me this morning - "Want to run tomorrow? Figured 90 mins or 2 hours or so" You ultra guys are nuts. Told him I don't know about a couple hours but I'd do 7-8 miles with him.

90 minutes to two hours? I'm looking forward to dialing back to that next weekend on my down week. My last three weekends were 4+ hour runs, and tomorrow will be the same.

Of course on a decent trail for my slow ###, 8 miles is 90 minutes......

Like I said, you guys are nuts. The way he non-chalantly said 90mins to 2 hours or so leads me to believe he typically does much longer runs and dialed it back for my benefit. So we did 8 miles in an average of about 7:45 pace. This guy runs about a 21 minute 5k but it seemed like he could run 7:40s forever. He said we were running faster than he's used to but he was holding a conversation much easier than I was. It never ceases to amaze me that people can run so close to their max pace for so long. And it constantly reminds me that I'm not like that. Take 12 days off a couple weeks ago and now 8 mile runs have me huffing and puffing.

 

[SFBayDuck]

I've been ice bathing like crazy and the legs are still really sore to start but at least they are loosening somewhat. Ran 6+ this morning. Became friendly with a couple here and the guy does Ultra and adventure races. He texts me this morning - "Want to run tomorrow? Figured 90 mins or 2 hours or so" You ultra guys are nuts. Told him I don't know about a couple hours but I'd do 7-8 miles with him.

90 minutes to two hours? I'm looking forward to dialing back to that next weekend on my down week. My last three weekends were 4+ hour runs, and tomorrow will be the same.

Of course on a decent trail for my slow ###, 8 miles is 90 minutes......

Like I said, you guys are nuts. The way he non-chalantly said 90mins to 2 hours or so leads me to believe he typically does much longer runs and dialed it back for my benefit. So we did 8 miles in an average of about 7:45 pace. This guy runs about a 21 minute 5k but it seemed like he could run 7:40s forever. He said we were running faster than he's used to but he was holding a conversation much easier than I was. It never ceases to amaze me that people can run so close to their max pace for so long. And it constantly reminds me that I'm not like that. Take 12 days off a couple weeks ago and now 8 mile runs have me huffing and puffing.

Ultra guys like him are really nuts - that can run all day, but also have the speed to drop mile after mile in the 7:00s. That's the main reason I focus on ultras and got interested in them in the first place - a 9:00 mile feels really fast and hard to me, so I'd rather just go out and explore for a few hours without really worrying about pace, and run a race here and there that are long enough that most people don't even have a concept of how long they should take!

Today's 20 was a pretty good one with over 3000' of vert, although I did feel tired. Then I realized I did 22 on Monday and haven't slept well all week, so I probably should feel tired. I'm looking forward to a rest/recovery week with just a few shorter runs before one more solid week of training the next and then into a taper.

 

[SteveC702]

I've been ice bathing like crazy and the legs are still really sore to start but at least they are loosening somewhat. Ran 6+ this morning. Became friendly with a couple here and the guy does Ultra and adventure races. He texts me this morning - "Want to run tomorrow? Figured 90 mins or 2 hours or so" You ultra guys are nuts. Told him I don't know about a couple hours but I'd do 7-8 miles with him.

90 minutes to two hours? I'm looking forward to dialing back to that next weekend on my down week. My last three weekends were 4+ hour runs, and tomorrow will be the same.

Of course on a decent trail for my slow ###, 8 miles is 90 minutes......

Like I said, you guys are nuts. The way he non-chalantly said 90mins to 2 hours or so leads me to believe he typically does much longer runs and dialed it back for my benefit. So we did 8 miles in an average of about 7:45 pace. This guy runs about a 21 minute 5k but it seemed like he could run 7:40s forever. He said we were running faster than he's used to but he was holding a conversation much easier than I was. It never ceases to amaze me that people can run so close to their max pace for so long. And it constantly reminds me that I'm not like that. Take 12 days off a couple weeks ago and now 8 mile runs have me huffing and puffing.

I'm with you Koby, the marathon is probably my limit. I don't think my body can hold up for much longer than that and any time I do a run longer than 80-90 minutes it can go very well or very disastrously for me.

I have a friend/college teammate who is an aerobic animal by comparison. I don't think he's run faster than 5:30 for the mile, and probably barely sub-18 for a 5K, but he's run sub-2:50 for the marathon and has finished top 10 at Badwater. In college we always joked that given his pace dropoff from going from the mile to the 10K he would make a beastly ultramarathoner one day, and he has.

I have grown to love the rhythm of marathon running and cranking out mile after mile at less than a minute slower than my 5K race pace... but I get more than my fix after 2.5 hours.

 

[tri-man 47]

MAC - I understand the differing thoughts on running with music. It's not my cup of tea, but I recognize that you and others prefer it. (I tend not to like seeing people with headphones in races ...seems they should be focusing on the race and appreciate their surroundings, including the crowd support.)

2Young - congrats to R!

BnB - sorry you couldn't get registered Wish I could have helped on Saturday.

 

[BassNBrew]

No luck getting an Umstead entry this year. Will know about Mt. Mitchell on Monday and Shut-In sometime late next week. Worst part about ultra running is actually getting into an event.

Bummer, is Umstead a lottery?

I'm obviously facing the same issue with my <10% chance to get into Western States via lottery. But I do have a backup 100 picked out in September that I should be able to get into.

It's a server race. 1000 people sit around hitting f5 until a registar button appears. It was supposed to open at noon but didn't open until 12:10. The first 265 that hit the registar button get in and have 20 minutes to complete the registration. Between people using multiple computers and having macros setup, usually 40 don't registar. After 20 minutes 750 people start pounding f5 and the process repeats. After 20 minutes 5-10 come available and the f5 punching beginas again. there were a couple of straggle registrations but I gave up at that time and will do another event. I have a very slow computer and connection where I'm at this weekend. Will likely try Graveyard or Massenutten. Of cours I'll give WS a shot.

What do you know about Leadville? Looks like 500 finished this year and 300-400 dnf'd. No info on registartion on their site. Do they take all comers?

 

[koby925]

For grue - http://www.philly.com/philly/health/sportsmedicine/Competitor_Group_cuts_elite_support_for_Rock_n_Roll_Half_Marathon.html

 

[parasaurolophus]

Took my first ice bath this weekend after a 15 miler that left me hobbled and limping. I think I screwed myself by running 4 miles a bit too fast(7:45 pace which I know is slow for some of you guys but that is barely off my best 5k time) early in the week and then followed that up with 9 the next night when I wasnt fully recovered. Gave myself two days rest before running saturday morning and then I got hit by a freight train. Things were going great until mile 12. Then it started to fall apart. I had to shuffle sideways up my driveway afterwards. Went for a very easy 10 mile bike ride yesterday which seems to have helped loosen me up. Probably will just swim/bike the rest of the week. I do have a race on saturday that I am registered for through work, so hopefully much better shape by then.

 

[PatriotJohn]

I have posted in here a few times and am looking for some sage advice:

I have developed an inflamed bursa sac inside my left heel last Monday due to overusage combined with bowling. I have been religious in ramping up my milage in preparation for the AF Half Marathon on the 21st. Treating with Ice, Motrin and for now rest. I did walk 6 miles on Saturday with no worsening, but I dont think it helped the healing any.

My question(s) to those who have had this or are familiar with this condition is this:

1) Is it possible for this to heal sufficiently in the next 12 days with no exercise and constant treatment, or at least to the point where I can run (with motrin) and finish depending on pain tollerance?

2) Will cycling (for cardio) or elliptical cause further irritation or hinder healing (keeping heel in same condition)? I have a Schwinn Airdyne, so i can put my feet on the pegs and use my arms for cardio as a last result, even though my legs will not get any exercise.

TIA to anyone who may be able to shed some light on this. I really want to run in this but at the same time, I do not want to do any chronic damage.

 

[SFBayDuck]

No luck getting an Umstead entry this year. Will know about Mt. Mitchell on Monday and Shut-In sometime late next week. Worst part about ultra running is actually getting into an event.

Bummer, is Umstead a lottery?

I'm obviously facing the same issue with my <10% chance to get into Western States via lottery. But I do have a backup 100 picked out in September that I should be able to get into.

It's a server race. 1000 people sit around hitting f5 until a registar button appears. It was supposed to open at noon but didn't open until 12:10. The first 265 that hit the registar button get in and have 20 minutes to complete the registration. Between people using multiple computers and having macros setup, usually 40 don't registar. After 20 minutes 750 people start pounding f5 and the process repeats. After 20 minutes 5-10 come available and the f5 punching beginas again. there were a couple of straggle registrations but I gave up at that time and will do another event. I have a very slow computer and connection where I'm at this weekend. Will likely try Graveyard or Massenutten. Of cours I'll give WS a shot.

What do you know about Leadville? Looks like 500 finished this year and 300-400 dnf'd. No info on registartion on their site. Do they take all comers?

I'm not sure the registration process, but I think Leadville does take all comers, and it became a problem this year. They had around 1000 people, plus 3-4 times that amount in crew and support people, and it apparently was a huge mess. One of the benefits of Leadville is that it's largely on the road or nearby, so there is crew and spectator access pretty much everywhere. But there were so many people this year that I heard stories of hours for crew to get into aid stations, and missing their runners. Aid stations out of water with 100s of runners still to come. Restaurants in Leadville out of food, so hungry runners and crew had no place to eat after the race. It just sounded like a mess. So it's been quite a topic on some of the ultra sites, whether ultrarunning has "lost its soul" because of what happened at Leadville. I think that's a bit of an overreaction as there should be a place for larger ultras if the infrastructure is in place to support them, but obviously they need to tighten this one up for next year.

Of course the leaders didn't know any of that was going on and had a great experience, so if you're fast enough you'll be fine

On that note, the two top finishers of Leadville were Ian Sharman and Nick Clarke, who just both broke the Grand Slam of Ultrarunning record by over 5 hours. What's the Grand Slam you ask? Only four of the most prestigious 100 milers in the country - Western States, Vermont, Leadville, and Wasatch - run over an 11 week period. The amazing thing is how well Ian and Nick did throughout - Ian finished 4th, 4th, 1st, and 2nd and Nick was 6th, 3rd, 2nd, and 1st. In the end, Ian's combined times were about 30 minutes lower than Nick's to take the Grand Slam. Two true badasses, that's for sure. I just can't imagine the recovery it takes to not only run four 100s that close together, but to compete at that a high of a level while doing so. Amazing what the human body (well, not mine, but others) can do.....

 

[Sand]

No luck getting an Umstead entry this year. Will know about Mt. Mitchell on Monday and Shut-In sometime late next week. Worst part about ultra running is actually getting into an event.

Bummer, is Umstead a lottery?

I'm obviously facing the same issue with my <10% chance to get into Western States via lottery. But I do have a backup 100 picked out in September that I should be able to get into.

It's a server race. 1000 people sit around hitting f5 until a registar button appears. It was supposed to open at noon but didn't open until 12:10. The first 265 that hit the registar button get in and have 20 minutes to complete the registration. Between people using multiple computers and having macros setup, usually 40 don't registar. After 20 minutes 750 people start pounding f5 and the process repeats. After 20 minutes 5-10 come available and the f5 punching beginas again. there were a couple of straggle registrations but I gave up at that time and will do another event. I have a very slow computer and connection where I'm at this weekend. Will likely try Graveyard or Massenutten. Of cours I'll give WS a shot.

What do you know about Leadville? Looks like 500 finished this year and 300-400 dnf'd. No info on registartion on their site. Do they take all comers?

There's always Pinhoti...

---

On my end not much to report. Rode once down at the beach this weekend. After having to go back home to replace a tire after hitting some metal banding (tire = trashed) I got in 22 miles or so. At the end of that my ribs hurt thanks to the cold that won't go away. So I sat like a lump and watched football Saturday and Sunday (Saints game = awesome!). Sadly no ocean swimming as there were lots of jellyfish in the water.

Funniest part of the weekend - when my wife came to rescue me (first time I've ever needed a pickup) she was stunned that I actually kept a spare tire in my bike bag. Doesn't everyone?

 

[tri-man 47]

Took my first ice bath this weekend after a 15 miler that left me hobbled and limping. I think I screwed myself by running 4 miles a bit too fast(7:45 pace which I know is slow for some of you guys but that is barely off my best 5k time) early in the week and then followed that up with 9 the next night when I wasnt fully recovered. Gave myself two days rest before running saturday morning and then I got hit by a freight train. Things were going great until mile 12. Then it started to fall apart. I had to shuffle sideways up my driveway afterwards. Went for a very easy 10 mile bike ride yesterday which seems to have helped loosen me up. Probably will just swim/bike the rest of the week. I do have a race on saturday that I am registered for through work, so hopefully much better shape by then.

Good call on the ice bath. That should help with the recovery. As to the above, I wouldn't say you screwed yourself ...you challenged yourself with some break-out training, and that leads to improvement. Job well done!

 

[Juxtatarot]

So, Grue, weather forecast looks good in both Erie and Naperville next Sunday!

 

[Annyong]

So, Grue, weather forecast looks good in both Erie and Naperville next Sunday!

pretty nervous about Naperville. havent ran over 6 in over a month