Ran a 10k - Official Thread (5 Viewers)

[ChiefD]

The day you come in here with a good poop story is the day you will realize that you are now a true runner.  Once you've added a wildlife story then you're a lifer.

I had my wildlife story last summer when I was in Illinois for my grandfathers funeral. I was scheduled for an 18 miler, and luckily he had lived in farm country. We were staying at a motel that bordered a lake community, so there were plenty of woods around. I had been having some issues, so in my hydration belt I carried some TP in one of the pockets for such an occasion. 

I wasn't 5 miles in when I felt the first rumblings. This was after I had already taken a good dump before I left. But, I was prepared. Found a nice tree to lean against and took care of business about 100 yards from someone's front door, albeit in some woods.

Go another 3 miles or so, and here it comes again. Damn. I had exhausted my TP supply on dump #1, so I ran into the next set of woods, found some leaves, and polished off. OK, everything is good now, and only 10 miles to go. I go another 5 miles, and sure enough the rumblings came on again. On top of that, the SI that morning was probably in the 140's, so it was getting uncomfortable. Sun is coming up, getting warm and sticky. Both in the air and in my running shorts.

At this point I'm like, WTF?  So I look up to the sky to the heavens and say out loud, "Grandpa, can you help me out here?"

I round a bend, and realize I am at the dam side of the lake. All of a sudden this beautiful north breeze pops up out of nowhere, and blows off the lake nice and cool. As I approach the dam, I look to my left and there is the most glorious site my eyes have ever laid upon - a picnic/beach area with a lovely, large bathroom facility.

Toilet paper as far as the eyes could see. Nobody around. Nice and cool in there. Stopped the Tom-Tom, and took care of what would be my final dump of the day.

A quite spectacular finish to a trying morning.

 

[worrierking]

I've got poop stories to last all day.  My wildlife stories are boring compared to some of you mountain guys.  I've encountered some weird stuff here on the bayou.  Crabs, snakes, owls, bats etc.  My most notorious wildlife experience was with an armadillo.  God, that thing gave me the willies.  I still get the shivers thinking about that prehistoric critter. 

 

[[icon]]

Been out of the loop due to taking a few days off for the hammy issue. Some awesome stuff in here. You guys are freaks. Love the pics Sand. Osaurus, the number rules. Best number I ever got was 1999 which led to prince jokes. /hipple

Hammy issue persists.. it feels like it's stopped improving. somewhat "sharp" pain high up near the bone. Initially tweaked last wednesday. Was still hurting a bit but went for a light run Sunday (just over a mile to loosen it up) and it felt fine during/after. Then the next day it went back to where it was before the run (maybe a touch worse), and feels like it's been getting about 2% better each day since that..... very frustrating. Tempted to go out for another easy run tonight to test it out, or should I just stay off it through the weekend and try on Monday? 

Annoying.

 

[Nigel]

My morning run pooping routine is locked in right now. I used to stress about getting something done before I left the house but now I fold up four neat wads of tp and put them in my pocket. Out the door 5 min after alarm went off. At the 2.5 mile mark there is a porta potty where I unload. My runs always start with that segment, and as soon as the komode comes into view it's like Pavlov's dogs, everything start moving and its a sprint to get in there. If you track me on Strava you'll alway see my HR drop as I pause the watch at 2.5, and if you're interested in tracking my pooping efficiency just check out the moving/elapsed time differential. If it's under two minutes I'm ecstatic, under three is par and nothing went amiss, anything over that means it was messy and I may have smeared myself with an errant wipe that got away from me due to sweaty/slippery conditions. Once finished I hit the resume button on the watch my run, my day really, begins in earnest. 

 

[Vrana]

I haven't run in a while but looking to get back into it.

Anyone have a good source for heart rate training information (its been months since I've been in this thread, so apologies if this was talked about recently)? I remember a few people were big proponents of it in the past.

 

[2Young2BBald]

Anyone ever run the Crim in Flint, Michigan? I got talked into signing up and when  I talk about it with others I get one of two responses:

- "That run is great. Lots of participants and huge support crowds."

- "You're running in Flint!?! You're going to get shot!"

Also, TMI but my poo schedule got messed up in the last couple weeks and now I have to head straight to the john when I get home from a run. Hasn't forced me to cut a run short yet or, thank God, driven me to find a porta-john, but it's an annoying new factor.

The CRIM is a fantastic event. Very very well run and a cool course that even goes through an upscale section of Flint (one really exists). Awesome fan support too. They will have doughnuts and beer by the fraternity houses and all kinds of music playing. Go for the party the night before. And, don't take it seriously. Most run it as more of a party.   As I recall this race has been around 20+ years and they honor those that have run it every year. A race wouldn't last this long if it wasn't a well run and enjoyable event.   You won't regret doing it. 

 

[Juxtatarot]

My morning run pooping routine is locked in right now. I used to stress about getting something done before I left the house but now I fold up four neat wads of tp and put them in my pocket. Out the door 5 min after alarm went off. At the 2.5 mile mark there is a porta potty where I unload. My runs always start with that segment, and as soon as the komode comes into view it's like Pavlov's dogs, everything start moving and its a sprint to get in there. If you track me on Strava you'll alway see my HR drop as I pause the watch at 2.5, and if you're interested in tracking my pooping efficiency just check out the moving/elapsed time differential. If it's under two minutes I'm ecstatic, under three is par and nothing went amiss, anything over that means it was messy and I may have smeared myself with an errant wipe that got away from me due to sweaty/slippery conditions. Once finished I hit the resume button on the watch my run, my day really, begins in earnest. 

I prefer my routine.

Wake up.  Drink about 1/4 cup of coffee.  Use my own throne.

 

[ChiefD]

I prefer my routine.

Wake up.  Drink about 1/4 cup of coffee.  Use my own throne.

Yeah, this is me 98% of the time, except I don't use the coffee.

I have a toilet route I go on if I know something isn't right. It's a perfect 13 miles out and back, so I'll usually use it on my long runs, cause I can always deviate off of it when I need the extra miles. There's a 7-11, couple of McDonald's, another convenience store, and multiple grocery stores and such along the way. That's my go-to if my morning doesn't feel quite right.

 

[ChiefD]

I haven't run in a while but looking to get back into it.

Anyone have a good source for heart rate training information (its been months since I've been in this thread, so apologies if this was talked about recently)? I remember a few people were big proponents of it in the past.

Prepare for about 25 answers here in the next 2 hours. 

But honestly, when I started, the advice I got was get a HR monitor, either a chest one or one that is on a watch, and just go run for awhile to accumulate data. Sync it with strava and join our group there and everyone here can see your progress and give you ideas. Eventually you will determine what zones you need to be in for the different types of workouts you want to do and what your goals are.

Edit to add: when I first started, I download Map My Run on my iPhone, and bought a chest strap. The data is then bluetoothed to the app so you can see your distance, pace, and HR. 

I'm guessing strava has the same type of app, but I use my Tom Tom watch to sync with that. If you aren't the type to want to wear a chest strap, the Tom-Tom watch is great, but a bit pricey. Well worth the money for me. I hate the chest strap.

 

[MAC_32]

It's still early as I adjust to more morning running, but I have been pleasantly surprised that I've been able to complete my longer morning runs without any stomach issues (so far).  Schedule has maintained - whenever I finish my 1/2 everything bagel w/almond butter and about 1/2 of my morning coffee, off to complete official business.  No matter if that's first thing in the morning or 3+ hours after I get up.

 

[FUBAR]

Dry heat sucks, but I firmly believe that humidity is the great equalizer.

It's almost certainly because I've adapted over time, but I'll take 85-90 in the soup over a dry 100+.  Obviously neither are comfortable, but I can't breathe in the hot & dry.

I don't know.  I've ran during the day in August in Afghanistan and Iraq - both are similar to Arizona, and yeah it sucks but it's more manageable than 90 degrees with 90% humidity.

I'll always remember running (slowly) in 130s there, sucked the life out of us for the rest of the day. But during, it didn't seem quite as bad.

 

[Ned]

Been out of the loop due to taking a few days off for the hammy issue. Some awesome stuff in here. You guys are freaks. Love the pics Sand. Osaurus, the number rules. Best number I ever got was 1999 which led to prince jokes. /hipple

Hammy issue persists.. it feels like it's stopped improving. somewhat "sharp" pain high up near the bone. Initially tweaked last wednesday. Was still hurting a bit but went for a light run Sunday (just over a mile to loosen it up) and it felt fine during/after. Then the next day it went back to where it was before the run (maybe a touch worse), and feels like it's been getting about 2% better each day since that..... very frustrating. Tempted to go out for another easy run tonight to test it out, or should I just stay off it through the weekend and try on Monday? 

Annoying.

Do not run!  Your body told you everything you need to know.

Hamstring injuries can linger forever if you don't properly heal up.  R.I.C.E. is your friend - do not stretch it.

 

[Ned]

I haven't run in a while but looking to get back into it.

Anyone have a good source for heart rate training information (its been months since I've been in this thread, so apologies if this was talked about recently)? I remember a few people were big proponents of it in the past.

Prepare for about 25 answers here in the next 2 hours. 

But honestly, when I started, the advice I got was get a HR monitor, either a chest one or one that is on a watch, and just go run for awhile to accumulate data. Sync it with strava and join our group there and everyone here can see your progress and give you ideas. Eventually you will determine what zones you need to be in for the different types of workouts you want to do and what your goals are.

Edit to add: when I first started, I download Map My Run on my iPhone, and bought a chest strap. The data is then bluetoothed to the app so you can see your distance, pace, and HR. 

I'm guessing strava has the same type of app, but I use my Tom Tom watch to sync with that. If you aren't the type to want to wear a chest strap, the Tom-Tom watch is great, but a bit pricey. Well worth the money for me. I hate the chest strap.

There's a bunch of info in the OP also.

 

[SFBayDuck]

I prefer my routine.

Wake up.  Drink about 1/4 cup of coffee.  Use my own throne.

I drink a whole cup, sometimes a little more, then hit the head.  It can be tough at early morning races as even if I eat dinner earlier to try and shift up the schedule, my bowels just aren't ready to release the hounds at 3:30 or 4:00 AM.  At my last race I was sitting on the pot about 4:15 AM, and after 5 minutes had experienced very unsatisfactory results.  I had brought my coffee in with me (it was a real restroom at a school, not a port-o-potty), took a sip of it, and all of a sudden everything started moving and I was ready to roll.  

 

[[icon]]

Do not run!  Your body told you everything you need to know.

Hamstring injuries can linger forever if you don't properly heal up.  R.I.C.E. is your friend - do not stretch it.

Gotcha. Thanks! Will ride it out through the weekend and hope it is better by monday. :(

 

[SFBayDuck]

It's Statesmas, my favorite time of the year - I'm heading up to Squaw in the morning for Western States!  I should be up there around lunch time to meet up with my buddy Surf who's running, and the rest of the crew.  I've paced him twice before, at States from mile 78 to 94 in 2014 and last Fall at Rio del Lago 100M for about the last 35 miles.  He's a 2:52 marathoner so I'm always scared he'll drop me, but our paces so far have matched up pretty well.....as long as he's already got 60-70 miles in his legs!  I'm not sure the plan yet as we'll figure that out when we meet tomorrow, so I could end up pacing the same leg as last time, going all the way from 78 to the finish, or even doing 62-78 instead.  

He'll be bib #320, you can track him (and the rest of the race) live here:  http://ultralive.net/ws100#tracking/runner/320.  It's going to be a hot year with the forecast of 100 degrees in Auburn (the finish) on Saturday, so the Canyons (miles 43-60) are going to be baking.  He's really shooting for a sub-24 hour finish after running 25:52 in 2014, but with 100 miles and especially with that kind of heat you just never know how things are going to go.  

The front of the race should be fun to watch, with the top four male finishers not coming back this year opening things up a bit (my pick is David Laney for the win), and the women's field possibly deeper than it's ever been (probably Magda Boulet or Kaci Lickteig for the win, but my darkhorse is local Marin runner Devon Yanko).  As always, iRunFar covers it before, during, and after better than anyone if any of y'all are interested.

My buddy Jim and I will both have our GoPro's, and he'll probably put together a pretty cool video of the day afterward.  His wife has also written a script about ultrarunning, and the director that is attached to that will be tagging along from the crew meeting on Friday all the way through the finish to get a real feel for what a 100 miler is all about.  Should be fun!

 

[MAC_32]

So, after 11 days of 'doing' pfitz 70 I am bailing.  I say 'doing' because looking at the last 11 days I wasn't really doing it in the first place.  I quickly reverted to my comfort zone (vigorous short training cycles), but then all I did was try to start the next one before I was ready (to keep with the schedule).  Thinking about it today, I figure why fight the comfort zone until it fails me.  If I'm doing well with the tough, short cycles then taking a couple-few days (whatever is necessary) to reset things then - keep doing it.  What really got me to rethink things was mid-run today when I thought about all that I'm doing this weekend and I realized I have 17 miles to run Sunday.  I mean, I could do them, but they won't be good miles and it'll domino into next week...so why force it?  So I'm not going to.

I'm going to take the next week and get ready for next Saturday's 5K then use that to spring board into the next cycle.  This may not work, but I think it's what's best for me right now.  I'll make some mistakes, but as long as I correct them the next time around - cool.

Have a great weekend, everyone! 

 

[ChiefD]

Wife has been out of town since Tuesday, so I got in a run Tuesday early before she left. Been since then to be able to run since I have the kids all week.

So a pretty nondescript run today. 4.1 miles - just a normal run out of a hundred similar type runs.

Except things are getting different. The suck index when I left was 160. It's been brutal here. And I took it as an easy run. And still managed to run a 9:55 with a HR of 157. Compared to where I was even a year ago this is a huge milestone. With that SI I was running anywhere between 10:30 and 11:15 mile paces.

Progress. Slowly but surely.

 

[prosopis]

Wife has been out of town since Tuesday, so I got in a run Tuesday early before she left. Been since then to be able to run since I have the kids all week.

So a pretty nondescript run today. 4.1 miles - just a normal run out of a hundred similar type runs.

Except things are getting different. The suck index when I left was 160. It's been brutal here. And I took it as an easy run. And still managed to run a 9:55 with a HR of 157. Compared to where I was even a year ago this is a huge milestone. With that SI I was running anywhere between 10:30 and 11:15 mile paces.

Progress. Slowly but surely.

I am glad to read this. I hope to see similar improvement..

 

[ChiefD]

I am glad to read this. I hope to see similar improvement..

You will. I am not a patient person, so its been frustrating. But it works.

 

[Osaurus]

Just added a 5k on the 4th. Red White and Brew or something.  I guess afterwards there is free beer.  Win win.

 

[ChiefD]

12 brutal miles this morning. SI was 149 when I walked outta the house at 6:00 this morning. Ran outta gas around mile 9.5 and tucked my tail the rest of the way home. And I was slow. Yuck. I hate running today.

But, it's done.  :X And I lost 4 pounds. 

 

[SFBayDuck]

My buddy had a pretty rough day out there, with his 24 hour goal out of reach in the first half thanks to a bad stomach and then a knee issue that had him spending 15 minutes at mile 55 with a Dr and chiropractor (who happened to be the original Sates runner himself, Gordy Ainsleigh). But he got it done, finishing the Western States 100 this morning in 27:03:07. 

I crewed him all day, going from the start at 5:00 AM to the miles 29, 55, and 62 aid stations before jumping in to pace from mile 78 at 1:20 AM as we crossed the river, and took him up to mile 93.5. He wasn't moving very well for most of it, but I was able to get him to pick it up and pass some people the last couple of miles we ran together. 

As always, States was just an incredible event and experience. This was my 4th time crewing/pacing, and every time it gets more ingrained in my being. Every runner should come experience it as a spectator once. I look forward to finally getting in some day and having the largest crew of dudes from around the country that I've never met 

There were a couple of amazing stories that I'll share when I'm back at my computer. Right now, I'm just trying to stay awake long enough to have dinner....

 

[Ned]

Another good week last week.  Taking a step back this week as I try to get some fresh legs for the 5K at the beach.  I've never tapered for a whole week in prep for a 5K.  Anxious to see how it goes...

M: 5mi recovery @ 9:02/133 - really good considering how warm it was.
T: 10mi MLR @ 8:11/144 - felt kind of sluggish
W: 10mi MLR @ 8:04/144 - that was good
T: 4mi recovery @ 9:10/129 - god I hate the treadmill sooooo much
F: 9/5 LT @ 6:36/174.  At mile 6 (LT4) I was getting above LT (179) and couldn't get my HR to come down, so I pulled the plug and cooled down for 3 instead of 2mi.  Humidity really zapped me, but that was a strong run in those conditions.
S: 5mi recovery @ 9:07/132
S: 15mi MLR @ 8:11/142 - felt pretty good, but legs got heavy at the end.

58mi for the week.  Getting in the groove!

 

[tri-man 47]

An incredible four weeks in France and Spain coming to an end ...about to board the flight from Dublin to home.  I'll then work on details and pics.  7 runs (three in the countryside of southern France, Paris, Avignon, Barcelona, and Tossa de Mar) along with two swims in the Mediterranean Sea.  Enough amazing sights and experiences for a lifetime.  No new poop stories, though I did mark my territory a few times.

 

[pbm107]

Excellent week @Ned, sometimes I think you underestimate your talent.  Keep showing up each week.

On my end June hasn't gone to plan between work travel reducing my mileage and my running efficiency (HR/pace) going down I haven't been in the best frame of mind.  I am obsessive tracking my running efficiency by month and in May I was 22 sec/mile more efficient than May 2015 but now in June I am 5 sec less efficient than June 2015.  There isn't any reason to be in worse shape compared to last year, I have run more miles this year and all year I have been about 20 sec/mile better than last.  My weight is up a bit, but not enough to explain the change in running performance.  I was beginning to think I should see a doctor.


Well this weekend I went up to the Poconos to visit the in-laws, and on Saturday morning I went for a run.  Their neighborhood is normally pretty confusing and recently the names of most of the streets were changed.  During the run I wasn’t paying too much attention to my watch as I was looking at my map so I wouldn’t get lost.   The run was uneventful and after I uploaded the run Ned made a comment about my HR looking good.  I looked at the run a bit closer and realized that I didn’t take my allergy medicine since I forgot to bring it.  So on Sunday’s long run I decided to run without the medicine and despite being hung over I was as efficient as my May numbers.  I can now add Claritin to the list of items I can’t take before a run (Allegra was already on the list), which is strange because I have been taking it for a few years without any issue.  This morning’s run was cut short due to some minor knee pain, but my HR was really low. 

It’s difficult to get up for training when you’re not getting better but in fact getting worse.  I am so happy I figured this thing out and without @Neds comment I might not have for quite a while, thanks man.

 

[FUBAR]

I'm going to be a broken record in here for the next few months.  Training at MAF in the summer humidity is the suck.  First few miles are okay, but by the end of a 5 mile run, I'm barely keeping below 10 min/mile.   If not for the goal marathon in December (and marathon training in the fall) I'd say screw this.  Cycling is so much more enjoyable.

ETA: upon review the sucktitude probably has less to do with the humidity and more to do with the fact that I'm averaging 16 miles a week running. But hitting my June goal for cycling, swimming and strength training. 

 

[Ned]

Excellent week @Ned, sometimes I think you underestimate your talent.  Keep showing up each week.

On my end June hasn't gone to plan between work travel reducing my mileage and my running efficiency (HR/pace) going down I haven't been in the best frame of mind.  I am obsessive tracking my running efficiency by month and in May I was 22 sec/mile more efficient than May 2015 but now in June I am 5 sec less efficient than June 2015.  There isn't any reason to be in worse shape compared to last year, I have run more miles this year and all year I have been about 20 sec/mile better than last.  My weight is up a bit, but not enough to explain the change in running performance.  I was beginning to think I should see a doctor.

Well this weekend I went up to the Poconos to visit the in-laws, and on Saturday morning I went for a run.  Their neighborhood is normally pretty confusing and recently the names of most of the streets were changed.  During the run I wasn’t paying too much attention to my watch as I was looking at my map so I wouldn’t get lost.   The run was uneventful and after I uploaded the run Ned made a comment about my HR looking good.  I looked at the run a bit closer and realized that I didn’t take my allergy medicine since I forgot to bring it.  So on Sunday’s long run I decided to run without the medicine and despite being hung over I was as efficient as my May numbers.  I can now add Claritin to the list of items I can’t take before a run (Allegra was already on the list), which is strange because I have been taking it for a few years without any issue.  This morning’s run was cut short due to some minor knee pain, but my HR was really low. 

It’s difficult to get up for training when you’re not getting better but in fact getting worse.  I am so happy I figured this thing out and without @Neds comment I might not have for quite a while, thanks man.

Thrilled you figured that out!  I had noticed your increase in HR and was curious what was going on.  But now in retrospect, this is exactly like that HM you ran when Allegra derailed you.  Very interesting.

I'm going to forewarn you... Don't accept any drinks from me when we run the 1/4 marathon in 3 weeks.  There may or may not be some crushed up Claritin involved.  

 

[MAC_32]

Looks like about 5-6 minutes into this afternoon's run I'll have my first 200 mile month ever.

Monday - 5 hybrid miles, the heat made the strength training portion more stressful than usual but my legs felt great once done.

Tuesday - HIIT/VO2 max - 6 miles total.  I was hoping to do 3 one mile intervals, but the last one was cut short as my heart rate was flying.  Makes sense since I held the first two intervals near 5:40 pace in the midday heat.

Wednesday - Off, I trained harder these last 8 days than any other period post half marathon.  I had no interest in exercising this day.

Thursday - 10 MLR before work, strength training over lunch, 6 recovery on the trails after work.  I had planned on 13 in the morning, but I never felt good throughout and when I picked up the pace mile 9 it was way too uncomfortable so I opted to cut it short and fight another day.

Friday - 5 recovery, when I decided to change my approach to training after this coming week's 5k.

Saturday - Yard work and strength training before work, 8 GA miles w/10x100m strides in the midday heat after work.

Sunday - Hills, 10 of the most technically demanding trail miles in my usual park.  I attacked most of the more challenging sections and used the easier portions as recovery.  I ran out of water on one of the climbs and just hiked that, but otherwise my energy levels remained high beginning to end as I was able to attack every other section that I wanted to.  Fun workout, but my calves were on fire as the day progressed.  I'm not kidding when I say I probably consumed more than 200 oz of water!  

50 miles for the week, 5th straight week of 50+.  I planned to increase the mileage this week, but changing my overall approach mid-week put me closer to where I have been.  However, I had my first 2K elevation week.  Strava doesn't say so because I had to manually upload my Thursday afternoon run, but it was on the trails so it was probably in the 300-400' range.  Like Ned, I'm taking it easy this week in preparation for a Saturday 5K.  Body could use a breather anyway.  A very busy weekend coming up again, but I'm hoping to be able to increase the distance on my long run Sunday morning (did 16 miles @ 7:35 8 days ago).  We'll see how fried my legs are post 5K, but I only have about 20-25 miles scheduled this week, so I'm hoping that leads to a solid 17+.

 

[ChiefD]

So, talk to me about running in altitude. I'll be in Colorado the last week of July, and the place we are staying is at about a 9500 ft elevation. Obviously running will be a challenge, so any tips would be appreciated on how to handle it. It looks like I can map out some relatively decent routes where I can stay at that same elevation throughout the run.

So, do I take a day or two to acclimate before I run? Go way slower? Pray? 

Any help would be appreciated. 

 

[MAC_32]

It was back when I had way less miles on my legs, but my wife and I had a miserable experience trying to run in Colorado a few years ago.  Pray + go slow.  If you feel good towards the end then pick it up.

 

[SayWhat?]

My buddy had a pretty rough day out there, with his 24 hour goal out of reach in the first half thanks to a bad stomach and then a knee issue that had him spending 15 minutes at mile 55 with a Dr and chiropractor (who happened to be the original Sates runner himself, Gordy Ainsleigh). But he got it done, finishing the Western States 100 this morning in 27:03:07. 

I crewed him all day, going from the start at 5:00 AM to the miles 29, 55, and 62 aid stations before jumping in to pace from mile 78 at 1:20 AM as we crossed the river, and took him up to mile 93.5. He wasn't moving very well for most of it, but I was able to get him to pick it up and pass some people the last couple of miles we ran together. 

As always, States was just an incredible event and experience. This was my 4th time crewing/pacing, and every time it gets more ingrained in my being. Every runner should come experience it as a spectator once. I look forward to finally getting in some day and having the largest crew of dudes from around the country that I've never met 

There were a couple of amazing stories that I'll share when I'm back at my computer. Right now, I'm just trying to stay awake long enough to have dinner....

Excited to hear more from you about this year's race in general, the weather, your buddy's experience, etc.  Particularly interested in what the rumblings out there were regarding the Walmsley debacle.   I'll let Duck tell the story as I was simply following online, but Walmsley was leading the race from early on and was just blasting it.  At Mile 90 he was 17 minutes ahead of course record pace and almost an hour ahead of the 2nd place challenger.  At something like Mile 93 (7 miles to go!), he proceeded to take a wrong turn which took him woefully off course.  By the time he backtracked and righted himself it was too late.  He walked it in for a 19th place finish.  Then you see this post-race interview and it's the epitome of what I've found in the trail running community. 

Walmsley Post-Race Interview

Just a ridiculously positive attitude considering the circumstances IMO. 

 

[2Young2BBald]

So, talk to me about running in altitude. I'll be in Colorado the last week of July, and the place we are staying is at about a 9500 ft elevation. Obviously running will be a challenge, so any tips would be appreciated on how to handle it. It looks like I can map out some relatively decent routes where I can stay at that same elevation throughout the run.

So, do I take a day or two to acclimate before I run? Go way slower? Pray? 

Any help would be appreciated. 

I ran a half marathon at Copper Mountain a few years back. As I recall it was recommended that I either run the first full day there or give it 2 days or so to acclimate.   It was one of the hardest races I can recall but running it the day after I arrived worked out fine. More important than acclimating to altitude is staying hydrated. The advice I got was to open a bottle of water when I landed and keep drinking constantly. We were out there two weeks and I always have one in hand.   The gains from training there the two weeks were huge.

 

[Ned]

Excited to hear more from you about this year's race in general, the weather, your buddy's experience, etc.  Particularly interested in what the rumblings out there were regarding the Walmsley debacle.   I'll let Duck tell the story as I was simply following online, but Walmsley was leading the race from early on and was just blasting it.  At Mile 90 he was 17 minutes ahead of course record pace and almost an hour ahead of the 2nd place challenger.  At something like Mile 93 (7 miles to go!), he proceeded to take a wrong turn which took him woefully off course.  By the time he backtracked and righted himself it was too late.  He walked it in for a 19th place finish.  Then you see this post-race interview and it's the epitome of what I've found in the trail running community. 

Walmsley Post-Race Interview

Just a ridiculously positive attitude considering the circumstances IMO. 

"tough luck, whatever"  

A better man than me.  

 

[SayWhat?]

"tough luck, whatever"  

A better man than me.  

Agreed.  And what really gets me is that this isn't your local 10K, marathon, or ultramarathon.  This happened after running for ~15 hours with the finish line "in sight" and on course record pace at the Boston Marathon of trail running.    Just sick to think about, yet his attitude in that interview is beyond belief for positivity IMO after that just happened.  Very little self pity evident.

 

[mr. furley]

So, talk to me about running in altitude. I'll be in Colorado the last week of July, and the place we are staying is at about a 9500 ft elevation. Obviously running will be a challenge, so any tips would be appreciated on how to handle it. It looks like I can map out some relatively decent routes where I can stay at that same elevation throughout the run.

So, do I take a day or two to acclimate before I run? Go way slower? Pray? 

Any help would be appreciated. 

one of my clients is in Denver. we talk running a bit since she's an avid runner. she says one of the local things to do is laugh at people from out of town who come in for races because the poor bastards have no idea what they're about to get in to.

 

[worrierking]

Here's an update on my situation.  As you may remember I was given a pretty dire diagnosis of arthritis in my hip almost two years ago.  After a comeback attempt in the fall of '14 in an effort to run the Houston marathon I tore my calf and missed the race.  I came back for another go last fall and had a great 5-month training period in which I reached 70 miles in my peak week for the Marathon.  Unfortunately I came down with some knee pain after my last long run and again missed the race and was again told I had arthritis.  So this spring I have been just seeing what I can actually do.  I got dealt another bit of bad news when some toe pain turned into --you guessed it-- a diagnosis of arthritis.  But that pain has subsided, and my hip is ok too.  It hurts a little once a week or so, but it is clearly manageable.  I can run on it just fine.  My knee has mild pain pretty much all the time.  It gets worse when I run, but advil helps a lot.  The toe pain is made worse by a few leg exercises that my PT prescribed to help strengthen my hip and knee, but If I skip those the toe is fine. 

So running-wise, I am obviously able to handle my current mileage, about 25 per week.  I am planning to slowly increase it to see what I can do.  I  have signed up for Houston again (optimist or fool?) and this time I am going to be extremely careful with my training (I am a candidate for over-trainers anonymous).  If I can handle 40 miles per week, I will stick with that and see what kind of long runs I can do.  I am determined to stay healthy and get to the starting line upright. At this point being able to run a marathon is more important than any time considerations so I will forego the usual training in exchange for staying healthy. 

I think the hip will be fine and the toe is just a nuisance.  The knee is my main worry.

Thanks for all the support both here and on Strava.

 

[[icon]]

How old are you WK? How long have you been running? If you don't mind me asking. 

 

[igbomb]

Here's an update on my situation.  As you may remember I was given a pretty dire diagnosis of arthritis in my hip almost two years ago.  After a comeback attempt in the fall of '14 in an effort to run the Houston marathon I tore my calf and missed the race.  I came back for another go last fall and had a great 5-month training period in which I reached 70 miles in my peak week for the Marathon.  Unfortunately I came down with some knee pain after my last long run and again missed the race and was again told I had arthritis.  So this spring I have been just seeing what I can actually do.  I got dealt another bit of bad news when some toe pain turned into --you guessed it-- a diagnosis of arthritis.  But that pain has subsided, and my hip is ok too.  It hurts a little once a week or so, but it is clearly manageable.  I can run on it just fine.  My knee has mild pain pretty much all the time.  It gets worse when I run, but advil helps a lot.  The toe pain is made worse by a few leg exercises that my PT prescribed to help strengthen my hip and knee, but If I skip those the toe is fine. 

So running-wise, I am obviously able to handle my current mileage, about 25 per week.  I am planning to slowly increase it to see what I can do.  I  have signed up for Houston again (optimist or fool?) and this time I am going to be extremely careful with my training (I am a candidate for over-trainers anonymous).  If I can handle 40 miles per week, I will stick with that and see what kind of long runs I can do.  I am determined to stay healthy and get to the starting line upright. At this point being able to run a marathon is more important than any time considerations so I will forego the usual training in exchange for staying healthy. 

I think the hip will be fine and the toe is just a nuisance.  The knee is my main worry.

Thanks for all the support both here and on Strava.

Given any thought to switching over to half-marathons? You don't really need to ever go over 25-30 mile weeks when training for halfs.

 

[ChiefD]

Here's an update on my situation.  As you may remember I was given a pretty dire diagnosis of arthritis in my hip almost two years ago.  After a comeback attempt in the fall of '14 in an effort to run the Houston marathon I tore my calf and missed the race.  I came back for another go last fall and had a great 5-month training period in which I reached 70 miles in my peak week for the Marathon.  Unfortunately I came down with some knee pain after my last long run and again missed the race and was again told I had arthritis.  So this spring I have been just seeing what I can actually do.  I got dealt another bit of bad news when some toe pain turned into --you guessed it-- a diagnosis of arthritis.  But that pain has subsided, and my hip is ok too.  It hurts a little once a week or so, but it is clearly manageable.  I can run on it just fine.  My knee has mild pain pretty much all the time.  It gets worse when I run, but advil helps a lot.  The toe pain is made worse by a few leg exercises that my PT prescribed to help strengthen my hip and knee, but If I skip those the toe is fine. 

So running-wise, I am obviously able to handle my current mileage, about 25 per week.  I am planning to slowly increase it to see what I can do.  I  have signed up for Houston again (optimist or fool?) and this time I am going to be extremely careful with my training (I am a candidate for over-trainers anonymous).  If I can handle 40 miles per week, I will stick with that and see what kind of long runs I can do.  I am determined to stay healthy and get to the starting line upright. At this point being able to run a marathon is more important than any time considerations so I will forego the usual training in exchange for staying healthy. 

I think the hip will be fine and the toe is just a nuisance.  The knee is my main worry.

Thanks for all the support both here and on Strava.

Just as a point of reference, when I trained last summer for the Chicago Marathon I was hitting 41-43 miles per week at my max and was still able to run the marathon just fine.

Granted, I'm slow but I think the mileage total you are thinking would be fine for your goal to finish.

 

[worrierking]

How old are you WK? How long have you been running? If you don't mind me asking. 

I'll be 53 this week.  I started running in 2007.

igbomb, I am pretty much only interested in Marathons.  I will run some halfs along the way if I can stay healthy.

Chief, I ran my first on about 40 miles per week, so I know I can do it.  Actually, I peaked at about 40.  I am going to shoot for averaging around 40.  I think I will cut back during the weeks when I run very long runs to keep it low.  I will adjust if I have to. 

 

[SayWhat?]

@worrierking - Mind me asking how old you are?  I don't at all know your back story, and I'm sure you've explored tons of solutions for the arthritic issues you've described above, but I'll throw a couple things out there to consider. 

My wife was diagnosed with arthritis in her hands and feet 3-4 years ago while in her early 30's.  While discussing how frustrating/depressing this was for my wife with a massage therapist we've befriended, she recommended I get her over to see her her friend whom was a naturopathic or homeopathic (don't remember for sure) practioner.  It sounded crazy, and I only obliged due to our friendship with her.  I set this up for my wife and went on the visit with her.  It took all I could muster to avoid laughing during the consultation and examination.  I'm talking 9/10 on the ridiculousness scale.  Long story short, this person assessed my wife as allergic to gluten not based on some scientific tests but rather on some computer program where she'd filter through foods while touching some wands simultaneously to my wife's hand and some bowl of something.  Honestly, craziest thing I've ever seen.   We left the visit.  I laughed a lot.  My wife was desperate, said "what do I have to lose," and immediately went gluten free.  Within a week she had no further arthritic symptoms.  I still laugh about that visit and think there's a 99% chance that was a fluke and lucky "diagnosis."  But if you're anywhere near where she was in terms of frustration with the arthritic symptoms, even if there's a 1% chance this is the same deal for you it's worth me passing along.  In most cases it's probably a long shot, but it's just an example that there may be underlying issues causing the arthritis or arthritic symptoms.  It might be worth a 1-2 week stab without gluten to see if that makes your body feel any better.

Along the same lines, reading/listening more and more to discussion regarding a high fat, moderate protein, and low/no carb diet and the significant improvements in recovery time for runners whom have successfully made this change in their diets.  Another thing that you could give a go at and see how it impacts your hip, knee, and toe.

Fully admit that the above are long shots, but they're also simple things to try out if you can remain diet-disciplined for a period of time.  Good luck with everything.  You certainly appear to have the right attitude in dealing with this. 

 

[Nigel]

Good luck WK. Your post speaks to what a big part of life running becomes for many of us, and the lengths to which we'll go to keep doing it. I'm sure you have people in your life suggesting you take up swimming or biking or something else but it ain't that easy. I appreciate the determination and really hope it works out for you. 

 

[SFBayDuck]

Excited to hear more from you about this year's race in general, the weather, your buddy's experience, etc.  Particularly interested in what the rumblings out there were regarding the Walmsley debacle.   I'll let Duck tell the story as I was simply following online, but Walmsley was leading the race from early on and was just blasting it.  At Mile 90 he was 17 minutes ahead of course record pace and almost an hour ahead of the 2nd place challenger.  At something like Mile 93 (7 miles to go!), he proceeded to take a wrong turn which took him woefully off course.  By the time he backtracked and righted himself it was too late.  He walked it in for a 19th place finish.  Then you see this post-race interview and it's the epitome of what I've found in the trail running community. 

Walmsley Post-Race Interview

Just a ridiculously positive attitude considering the circumstances IMO. 

Unlike past years, I didn't see much of the front of the race after the start, especially for the men.  Since my runner was planning on pushing for a 24-hour finish I decided to do everything I could to focus on that.  So when I had a chance to rest I did so, instead of doing what I might typically do and drive up to one of the aid stations to watch the front of the race play out, knowing that we might be moving with some real purpose when I'd be pacing him.  His wife, who was taking him from 93.5 to the finish, and I had talked about being nervous about pacing him if he was on the line of making that 24-hour time.  So I went to the hotel for an hour in the afternoon to get off my feet, and instead of going to the finish for a couple of hours that evening parked my car where I'd be taking the shuttle to the river and took a nap there.  So most of what I knew about the race was also following along online when we actually had a signal, along with reports from aid station volunteers and other crews.  A few of the amazing highlights:

• What a story it was that played out with Walmsley all day. There were a few guys running with him early (Sage Canaday primarily), but he took the lead about 10 miles in and just hammered it, putting time on the rest of the field and the course record.  I kept hearing words like "unprecedented" and "incredible" and "awe inspiring" as people that were at the aid stations when he came through tried to describe what they saw.  IRunFar said, "His effort seemed inhuman–truly asking all of us observing at aid stations to plausibly reset the definitions of what is possible." Look at his splits on Strava up through mile 90 - there's a whole lot of sub-7:00s and sub-8:00s in there.  He even dropped his pacer on the way down to the river about mile 71 - a professional runner could only keep up with him for 7-8 miles on the Cal St. trail, while he already had 62+ miles in his legs.  But then at about mile 92 instead of heading up a hill to the HWY 49 aid station he missed a turn, and ran along the river and came out about two miles down 49 from the aid station. He obviously felt a little defeated at that point, seeing the race of a (anyone's!) lifetime slip away.  He pretty much walked back, retracing his steps, walked up to the aid station and sat for 15-20 minutes before continuing on, and he ended up finishing in 20th place overall.
  

• The other piece of the Walmsley story was his river crossing.  For those that aren't familiar, at Mile 78 you hit the Rucky Chucky aid station at the American River.  There is a dam upstream, and every morning they let out a bunch of water so that there is enough flow for the rafters that frequent this area.  So the water is fairly high and fast in the morning, and gradually drops throughout the day.  You wade through with the help of a cable with volunteers helping to guide you across - it's been a little over waist high at it's deepest point all three times I've crossed as a pacer.  It's pretty common for the lead runners to jump in for a minute and submerge themselves to try and cool off, as it's still hot and sunny when they get there.  So Walmsley shows up, gets the life jacket put on, and wades in - the volunteers just think he's cooling off.  But then he just starts swimming across and the current sweeps him down stream.  The safety raft takes off after him, but he finally makes it over to the side.  Here's iRunFar's video of the whole thing (turn down if at work, Bryon drops an F bomb at the beginning).  Towards the end you can hear people yelling, "don't get in the raft" and "don't help him", mostly his crew.  Why would they be yelling that you ask?  Well.....
  

•  In 2006 Brian Morrison was training regularly up in Seattle with Scott Jurek, who had just won the race 7 times in a row.  Scott wasn't going back that year and predicted Brian would win, paced him for much of the way, and sure enough Brian hit the track in Auburn about 15 minutes ahead of second place.  But then this happened.  Because he was helped up and assisted across the finish line, he was disqualified and is officially listed as a DNF at Robie Point at mile 98.9 (last aid station before the finish).  Brian came back the next three years but never completed the race (cancellation, nutrition, injury iirc).  But he was back this year, 10 years later.  He was introduced at the pre-race meeting on Friday along with the elites, and everyone gave him a huge hand.  It was an emotional moment, with him wiping away tears.  We actually saw him several times throughout the race as he was running near my buddy most of the day, and they knew each other from the running store in Seattle that Brian manages.  Well Brian finally managed to finish Western States, finishing about 24 minutes after my buddy in 27:26.  Huge hand from the crowd, great moment.
  

• As the clock wound down the final minutes during the "Golden Hour of Ultrarunning", the runners that have been out there all day, night, and into another hot day start streaming in.  In the final hour 64 of the 280 total finishers, or 23% of the total, came in and crossed the finish.  Those stories are always the best - a breast cancer survivor being paced by a guy I know, the 26 year old daughter of one of the WS board members, three 60 years olds - and most are joined on the track by not only their pacers but their crew, family, and friends.  There were two 70 year olds that had started - 71 year old Gunhild Swanson, who had the amazing finish last year with 6 seconds to spare, and 72-year old Wally Hesseltine.  Gunhild missed the cutoff at the river, but Wally was still coming.  As we got to the final moments a cheer erupted from the road outside the track, and Wally finally came down the ramp.  But unlike Gunhild running a sub-8:00 final mile to sneak in under the wire, Wally was in bad shape, leaning badly to one side and stumbling.  He crashed into a garbage can on the ramp and fell down.  He got up and kept moving, but time ran out after just a few more steps, probably 200 meters from the finish line.  He kept trying to go, leaning and falling again, then again.  Everyone in the crowd is chanting "Wally, Wally", just like they had chanted Brian's name back in 2006.  On the straight away he fell once more, and had to be helped to his feet and across the line.  Totally sad moment, and yet inspiring at the same time.  He was one of three runners that came in after the official cutoff, and while the announcer called out their names and said they "covered the distance", they don't go down as official finishers, but DNFs at Robie Point.
  

• Lance Armstrong was out there pacing former Oakland As player Eric Byrnes, who did come in sub-24 for the Silver Buckle.  That's all I have to say about that.
  

There are dozens more stories, but that's enough for here and now since I know not everybody (ok, nobody) is as in to this race as I am.

 

[SFBayDuck]

@worrierking -

Fully admit that the above are long shots, but they're also simple things to try out if you can remain diet-disciplined for a period of time.  Good luck with everything.  You certainly appear to have the right attitude in dealing with this. 

I totally agree with @SayWhat? here.  I've heard so many stories of people with all sorts of autoimmune issues that are completely reversed/cured by changes in diet.  Gluten is only one possibility, but I'd absolutely look at an elimination/antiinflammatory/elimination diet to see if it helps.  There is a ton of info on the interwebs, or find a holistic practitioner or a nutritionist in your area that can guide you.

 

[SFBayDuck]

I ran a half marathon at Copper Mountain a few years back. As I recall it was recommended that I either run the first full day there or give it 2 days or so to acclimate.   It was one of the hardest races I can recall but running it the day after I arrived worked out fine. More important than acclimating to altitude is staying hydrated. The advice I got was to open a bottle of water when I landed and keep drinking constantly. We were out there two weeks and I always have one in hand.   The gains from training there the two weeks were huge.

For races, what I've heard is to either get to elevation as close to the start of the race as possible, or you have to get there well ahead of time - I've heard one day for each 1000' of elevation.  But full acclimation (increase in red blood cells, for example) takes longer than that.  As for the 2-day advice, I've heard that's about the worst window of all - just enough time for your body to feel the effects of altitude while not being enough time to actually make any adaptations.

But for you heading up there on vacation, like I'm doing next month, it's primarily a matter of accepting you're going to be way slower, staying hydrated, and I've heard that a little extra carbs can help.  As far as acclimating, some studies have shown that heat training causes some similar physiological adaptations that altitude does, primarily increased plasma volume and an increase in levels of heat shock proteins.  In the next few weeks before I head up to Colorado, I plan on doing more runs mid-day and working in some post-run sauna sessions in the hope that it'll help my acclimation once I get up there.

 

[prosopis]

Put me in the osteoarthritis group. I was diagnosed with it today. It is primarily my hands and the thumbs seem to be the worst. I do have quite a bit of foot pain which I have chosen to ignore and did not mention to the doc. I will say it is very painful in my hands and I have come close to tears a few times. Doctor I saw was pretty blunt and asked if I had any disability insurance. His words were "your screwed"

I spent some time feeling sorry for myself and I could feel that in my stomach which was weird. I cant really afford surgery so I am doing the internet research thing right now. Looking for Natural treatments and hand exercises. I do quite a bit of self defense training and I spar twice a week. I am very concerned about that hobby but I plan on continuing.

Looking at Turmeric Curcumin as my first stab at treating myself.

I did get some kind of injection in my left hand today for a trigger finger.

 

[FUBAR]

Damn @prosopis, thoughts and prayers good buddy.  

 

[ChiefD]

 heat training causes some similar physiological adaptations that altitude does, primarily increased plasma volume and an increase in levels of heat shock proteins.

Well, I should be good then.

 

[ChiefD]

Damn @prosopis, thoughts and prayers good buddy.  

This. Hope you find some answers that will help you out.