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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (4 Viewers)

Speaking of bikers, I have a question. When I go running, and I see someone running past me, 100% of the time the other runner (and myself) will give a friendly wave, or a good morning, or something to that effect.

When a biker goes past me, and I try to wave or say good morning or whatever, nothing. They don't even look over, never wave, never nod their heads, never say anything. 

Do biker's consider runners the peasant class because we don't have all the fancy gear? Talk to me you bicycle elitists.

 
ChiefD said:
<_<
Click to expand...
I'm just jealous.  If only they gave body fat awards instead of age group awards.  I'd be a total metal monger in the 25% category.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
ChiefD said:
Speaking of bikers, I have a question. When I go running, and I see someone running past me, 100% of the time the other runner (and myself) will give a friendly wave, or a good morning, or something to that effect.

When a biker goes past me, and I try to wave or say good morning or whatever, nothing. They don't even look over, never wave, never nod their heads, never say anything. 

Do biker's consider runners the peasant class because we don't have all the fancy gear? Talk to me you bicycle elitists.
Click to expand...
I've noticed the same thing.

 
Ned said:
So the Via Marathon (where I tried to make a last second improvement on my BQ last year) was run this past Sunday.  I was thinking about them as I struggled through the soup on Sunday.  On top of the weather, they had to deal with this http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/09/via_runners_stopped_by_train_c.html 
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That sucks.  We actually crossed train tracks about 20 yards from the finish of Cascade Crest, and I thought about having to stop there if my timing had been bad.

Of course the real trail-ultra version would be a bear:  http://kamisemick.blogspot.com/2011/06/western-states-bearish-ending.html  Pretty sure I've posted that before, but having a 100M come down to a sprint finish because of stopping for a bear is pretty amazing.

 
igbomb said:
Maybe I can help. 6'1" and 200#
Click to expand...
Nope, I'm still shorter. 6' 175lbs.  

Hang 10 said:
I will not. I'm not going to gain weight just so @FUBAR doesn't feel so bad about not being able to fit into the tight biker shorts he wore 10 years ago. 
Click to expand...
Lol.  True story, I made the mistake of commenting on my wife's outfit for church - short skirt, told her I'd love her to wear it out with me but it will be distracting at church, no need to tempt the dudes behind us.  This conversation went on for a bit, then my 11yo son told me that if I don't want mom wearing that outfit he doesn't want me wearing my tight shorts.  I simply replied that I'd stop wearing my bike shorts to church. 

ChiefD said:
Speaking of bikers, I have a question. When I go running, and I see someone running past me, 100% of the time the other runner (and myself) will give a friendly wave, or a good morning, or something to that effect.

When a biker goes past me, and I try to wave or say good morning or whatever, nothing. They don't even look over, never wave, never nod their heads, never say anything. 

Do biker's consider runners the peasant class because we don't have all the fancy gear? Talk to me you bicycle elitists.
Click to expand...
I'll nod, most bikers around here do too. Occasionally I'll wave a finger. 

 
Ned said:
So the Via Marathon (where I tried to make a last second improvement on my BQ last year) was run this past Sunday.  I was thinking about them as I struggled through the soup on Sunday.  On top of the weather, they had to deal with this http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/news/index.ssf/2016/09/via_runners_stopped_by_train_c.html 
Click to expand...
Grand Rapids, MI had a special marathon event for about 350 runners hoping to qualify (a friend from church - who'd started Boston right next to me last year - ran this with about a 4 minute cushion).  Four loops in a park ...flat and fast.  The race numbers even started with the qualifying time that was needed (so his was 340xx). 

 
ChiefD said:
Speaking of bikers, I have a question. When I go running, and I see someone running past me, 100% of the time the other runner (and myself) will give a friendly wave, or a good morning, or something to that effect.

When a biker goes past me, and I try to wave or say good morning or whatever, nothing. They don't even look over, never wave, never nod their heads, never say anything. 

Do biker's consider runners the peasant class because we don't have all the fancy gear? Talk to me you bicycle elitists.
Click to expand...
In my case the doppler shift of my voice as I go by shifts it into the infrasonic.  If you had elephant ears you could hear me clearly.

 
So let's talk about marathon nutrition. Specifically, diet leading up to the race.

1. Do you guys have a nutrition plan that you use and repeat for every marathon in the week leading up to the race?

2. What about two weeks before the race?

3. What mix of foods are you eating in terms of proteins, carbs, etc?

Just trying to see if I can gain anything with some different ideas. Typically I will carb load of course, but I will eat some chicken breast throughout the week, usually a steak and potatos a couple of days before a race, and I start to reduce fruits and veggies a few days before to reduce the odds of pooping all over myself.

Any thoughts?

 
ChiefD said:
So let's talk about marathon nutrition. Specifically, diet leading up to the race.

1. Do you guys have a nutrition plan that you use and repeat for every marathon in the week leading up to the race?

2. What about two weeks before the race?

3. What mix of foods are you eating in terms of proteins, carbs, etc?

Just trying to see if I can gain anything with some different ideas. Typically I will carb load of course, but I will eat some chicken breast throughout the week, usually a steak and potatos a couple of days before a race, and I start to reduce fruits and veggies a few days before to reduce the odds of pooping all over myself.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
I think the general rule of thumb is not do anything dramatically different from your normal training schedule. If you have enough energy when you are doing a 20+ mile long run on the weekend than that should be good enough for marathon week. 

When you factor in the taper you should carbing up without really trying because you'll be eating the same and running less.

That being said, cleaning up your diet can't hurt either but I wouldn't wait til the week of the race for that.

 
Hang 10 said:
I think the general rule of thumb is not do anything dramatically different from your normal training schedule. If you have enough energy when you are doing a 20+ mile long run on the weekend than that should be good enough for marathon week. 

When you factor in the taper you should carbing up without really trying because you'll be eating the same and running less.

That being said, cleaning up your diet can't hurt either but I wouldn't wait til the week of the race for that.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this.  Eat as clean as possible the 10 days going in without making any big changes, and avoid any foods that cause you problems (that's wheat for me).  You already mentioned cutting back on fiber in the last couple of days, good call.  And I usually eat a good sized dinner two nights out, a big lunch the day before, and then a smaller dinner the night before of just protein and easy to digest carbs - salmon and white rice is my go to.  If it's an early race that requires getting up and getting the system moving earlier than normal, I'll also try to eat dinner a little earlier than normal.

 
ChiefD said:
So let's talk about marathon nutrition. Specifically, diet leading up to the race.

1. Do you guys have a nutrition plan that you use and repeat for every marathon in the week leading up to the race?

2. What about two weeks before the race?

3. What mix of foods are you eating in terms of proteins, carbs, etc?

Just trying to see if I can gain anything with some different ideas. Typically I will carb load of course, but I will eat some chicken breast throughout the week, usually a steak and potatos a couple of days before a race, and I start to reduce fruits and veggies a few days before to reduce the odds of pooping all over myself.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
After my reading this is my tentative plan for the last two weeks (subject to tweaks based on suggestions by the peanut gallery)

Breakfast - eggs or avocado, half bagel with almond butter or chocolate chip waffle, banana or orange, and oatmeal

Lunch - Greek yogurt or cottage cheese with berries, deli sandwich with mustard or tuna dry, and either some kinda potato or squash bake

Snack - nuts and raw veggies, a junk bar if I need it pre workout

Post workout - chocolate milk or gatorade

Dinner - Meat or pasta and veggies and/or beans 

No late night garbage (this will be the hard part). If I'm that hungry then pretzels or popcorn. Hopefully Costco still has some Aussie bites because those were a money late night go-to, but if they don't hopefully there is something else.

 
Started some PT today with a great therapist.  But I did kind of freak out at one point when he asked (properly), "are you a twin?"   :shock:

I had asked him about the slight bow in my lower left leg ...a little more pronounced than in my right leg, which is reasonably straight.  It turns out this can be common for twins.  I must have been on the side where my left leg was affected by the curve of my momma's belly.  Who knew?!  I haven't yet asked my brother if he has the similar issue on his right leg.  The therapist says he's working with some 12 year old triplets right now, and one of them has quite a pronounced problem because of this.

And he did say it's fine to run, if I don't mind some pain while running (it's really only a problem if the pain continues after I stop).  With DWD in two weeks and a big race weekend in six weeks, that was good to hear.  Hopefully we can reduce the inflammation over the next few weeks.  I don't mind taking a break in six weeks and switching to more cross training, but I gotta get through this stretch.  Because I'm stubborn.  

 
Hang 10 said:
I think the general rule of thumb is not do anything dramatically different from your normal training schedule. If you have enough energy when you are doing a 20+ mile long run on the weekend than that should be good enough for marathon week. 

When you factor in the taper you should carbing up without really trying because you'll be eating the same and running less.

That being said, cleaning up your diet can't hurt either but I wouldn't wait til the week of the race for that.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:  

Don't overthink it.  Keep on doing what's working and just keep it clean.

Don't go nuts on trying to carb load.  I think its highly overblown and just gets people to overeat before race day.

 
Walked out this morning to lightning in the sky. Oh well, that is one condition I just don't run in. Ended up running around the block and going in. Probably good timing anyway. Both feet hurt and I feel tired.

Blah.

 
Kafka said:
:hifive:

eta: sorry guys, not a runner, just a lurker who used to be a runner, but I love this thread...it inspires me to feel even more guilty!  It's phenomenal what you guys are able to achieve.  Well done, all.
Click to expand...
Get that ankle healed up and I'll get your drunk ### out there.

 
Ned said:
:goodposting:  

Don't overthink it.  Keep on doing what's working and just keep it clean.

Don't go nuts on trying to carb load.  I think its highly overblown and just gets people to overeat before race day.
Click to expand...
The biggest takeaway I had was to get rid of the simple carbs.  You'll be running less, so you'll be burning less and need to sacrifice something so you don't gain weight - don't want to axe the good stuff though.

But I'm not a believer in the big pasta meal the day before anymore.  I'll have a normal helping of pasta two days before, but grilled chicken thighs and zucchini/squash has been my go-to the night before lately and it's gone real well.

Ned/Hang have the right overall message, don't make any drastic changes.  If you don't have a carb heavy diet right now then don't force it during the taper.  

 
Pasta the night before isn't mandatory by any means. Now PIZZA on the other hand! Get outta here with your salmon and skinless chicken breasts...

 
@pbm107

When I was slugging through a harder than it should have been 6.5/7:53/144 run this morning with a 130 SI, I thought about you as well as the break in the weather I had on Sunday and Monday.  Sunday's numbers: 15.1/7:14/142 @110 SI.  Monday: 5.4/8:22/122.  It helped me realize that although I'm certainly not in the shape I was last fall or this spring (for obvious reasons), a lot of my fitness is still in there somewhere just waiting to come out when I'm not overheating.  

I don't think you guys have had any super cool mornings yet but certainly they're coming.  I hope you stick things out until you get a stretch of them.  Perhaps you'll be surprised about how good you fell and it can help with your confidence and motivation.

 
Juxtatarot said:
@pbm107

When I was slugging through a harder than it should have been 6.5/7:53/144 run this morning with a 130 SI, I thought about you as well as the break in the weather I had on Sunday and Monday.  Sunday's numbers: 15.1/7:14/142 @110 SI.  Monday: 5.4/8:22/122.  It helped me realize that although I'm certainly not in the shape I was last fall or this spring (for obvious reasons), a lot of my fitness is still in there somewhere just waiting to come out when I'm not overheating.  

I don't think you guys have had any super cool mornings yet but certainly they're coming.  I hope you stick things out until you get a stretch of them.  Perhaps you'll be surprised about how good you fell and it can help with your confidence and motivation.
Click to expand...
Thanks I appreciate it, but we have had pretty much ideal conditions the past 3 days around here.  The more I think about I think I am dealing with Over Training Syndrome.  Granted I am not attempting to do anything more strenuous than last year, but other factors have changed.  In the causes of over training life stresses (work), heat-injury episodes, and sleep disturbances are listed as causes. 

I changed jobs this spring, this has been the warmest summer ever, and my sleep has been bad for about a month now.  My HR before I start running in the morning while waiting to acquire GPS is usually under 60, recently it has been in the 70s.

I think the warning signs for this first occurred back in March/April when I started the new job and I wasn’t able to complete some workouts.  Prior to that the last time I wasn’t able to complete a workout was the previous August.      

I took it easy in May and started my base buildup in June and my running efficiency fell off.  Before June I was more than 20 sec per mile more efficient in 2016 than 2015.  Then in June I was 2 sec/mile less efficient.  In July I was close to the 2015’s efficiency numbers, but I never ran more than 55 miles in a week that month. 

Aug started out okay, but things haven’t been right since my 20 miler on Aug 14.  For the past two weeks I have cleaned up my diet and am trying to get my sleep in.  I got my blood work done and everything came back fine.

Moving forward I guess I just need more rest.  It sucks but I don’t really have any options, I may have to start a walking program for a few weeks.

 
pbm107 said:
Thanks I appreciate it, but we have had pretty much ideal conditions the past 3 days around here.  The more I think about I think I am dealing with Over Training Syndrome.  Granted I am not attempting to do anything more strenuous than last year, but other factors have changed.  In the causes of over training life stresses (work), heat-injury episodes, and sleep disturbances are listed as causes. 

I changed jobs this spring, this has been the warmest summer ever, and my sleep has been bad for about a month now.  My HR before I start running in the morning while waiting to acquire GPS is usually under 60, recently it has been in the 70s.

I think the warning signs for this first occurred back in March/April when I started the new job and I wasn’t able to complete some workouts.  Prior to that the last time I wasn’t able to complete a workout was the previous August.      

I took it easy in May and started my base buildup in June and my running efficiency fell off.  Before June I was more than 20 sec per mile more efficient in 2016 than 2015.  Then in June I was 2 sec/mile less efficient.  In July I was close to the 2015’s efficiency numbers, but I never ran more than 55 miles in a week that month. 

Aug started out okay, but things haven’t been right since my 20 miler on Aug 14.  For the past two weeks I have cleaned up my diet and am trying to get my sleep in.  I got my blood work done and everything came back fine.

Moving forward I guess I just need more rest.  It sucks but I don’t really have any options, I may have to start a walking program for a few weeks.
Click to expand...
When you cleaned up your diet - are you sure you're getting enough calories in?  I know it's super hard to get a lot of calories in when eating really clean.

 
pbm107 said:
I am not sure, but I'm 7lbs over my racing weight.
Click to expand...
Wonder how much of that's water weight.  I'm 8# over my racing weight right now, FWIW.  I'm willing to bet most of its water retention due to running in all this heat.  

 
pbm107 said:
Thanks I appreciate it, but we have had pretty much ideal conditions the past 3 days around here.  The more I think about I think I am dealing with Over Training Syndrome.  Granted I am not attempting to do anything more strenuous than last year, but other factors have changed.  In the causes of over training life stresses (work), heat-injury episodes, and sleep disturbances are listed as causes. 

I changed jobs this spring, this has been the warmest summer ever, and my sleep has been bad for about a month now.  My HR before I start running in the morning while waiting to acquire GPS is usually under 60, recently it has been in the 70s.

I think the warning signs for this first occurred back in March/April when I started the new job and I wasn’t able to complete some workouts.  Prior to that the last time I wasn’t able to complete a workout was the previous August.      

I took it easy in May and started my base buildup in June and my running efficiency fell off.  Before June I was more than 20 sec per mile more efficient in 2016 than 2015.  Then in June I was 2 sec/mile less efficient.  In July I was close to the 2015’s efficiency numbers, but I never ran more than 55 miles in a week that month. 

Aug started out okay, but things haven’t been right since my 20 miler on Aug 14.  For the past two weeks I have cleaned up my diet and am trying to get my sleep in.  I got my blood work done and everything came back fine.

Moving forward I guess I just need more rest.  It sucks but I don’t really have any options, I may have to start a walking program for a few weeks.
Click to expand...
I haven't had a chance to listen yet, but just saw this podcast referenced in the Ultrarunnerpodcast daily news:  Science of Ultra:  Adrenal Fatigue

 
Anyone running Boston in 2017? I just read some interesting news that the cutoff for qualifying might be a less than a minute this year because of less qualifiers this past year compared to the previous years. I'm probably getting my hopes up but I'm probably going to run it if I get in. 

 
Hang 10 said:
Anyone running Boston in 2017? I just read some interesting news that the cutoff for qualifying might be a less than a minute this year because of less qualifiers this past year compared to the previous years. I'm probably getting my hopes up but I'm probably going to run it if I get in. 
Click to expand...
I thought about it but decided I'd rather just run it in 2018 with you all. (Assuming I can re-qualify, that is!)

 
Juxtatarot said:
I thought about it but decided I'd rather just run it in 2018 with you all. (Assuming I can re-qualify, that is!)
Click to expand...
If I get in this year, I'm not sure about 2018. Knowing me, I'd probably like to do it again but I hadn't really considered 2017 because I assumed I had no shot. 

 
Hang 10 said:
Anyone running Boston in 2017? I just read some interesting news that the cutoff for qualifying might be a less than a minute this year because of less qualifiers this past year compared to the previous years. I'm probably getting my hopes up but I'm probably going to run it if I get in. 
Click to expand...
I hope you get in, but :hot:  

 
Hang 10 said:
Anyone running Boston in 2017? I just read some interesting news that the cutoff for qualifying might be a less than a minute this year because of less qualifiers this past year compared to the previous years. I'm probably getting my hopes up but I'm probably going to run it if I get in. 
Click to expand...
If I make it I will wait until 2018.  I don't know how much time off training I'll want after this is over, but it may be a while.

 
BLAZEHARE
18 HOURS AGO




The final update in all it's glory, incorporating Santa Rosa, Lehigh, Cottonwood and Erie....

If you take the top 24 feeders stated on the BAA website (excluding Berlin), in the 2016 qualifying period (fall 2014 through late summer 2015) these races had 223,077 finishers, 34,199 of which BQ'd.  The cut-off, as we know, ended up being 2:28.  Thus, 4,485 runners in this sample were eliminated (myself included) by failing to run faster than 2:28 minus their BQ qualifying time.  This left 29,714 runners in the sample of 24 races that met the cutoff.

Using the same 24 feeders this year, in the 2017 qualifying period (fall 2015 through late summer 2016), these races had 220,052 finishers, 29,644 of which BQ'd.  This is down substantially year-over-year.  Note that 29,714 runners in the same race sample last year made the cutoff.  Thus, if we applied no cutoff this year, all 29,644 runners would qualify since this number is lower than last years sample (up above in bold).

Technically, this analysis still suggests no cutoff will be necessary.

Caveats.... this assumes the 24 races are a fair reflection of how all qualifiers in all races performed.  These are the biggest feeders so it should dominate (question for the board... does anyone know how many BQ's were run in a given year in the U.S., or how many finishers?  That would give us a sense for sample coverage).

Also, the possibility exists those people that were not motivated to apply last year may choose to do so this year, meaning a small cut-off could be in place.

All that said, it sure seems like any cutoff will be minimal.

We shall see.  Good luck to everyone!!


 


2016 Boston Qualifying Races


2017 Boston Qualifying Races


Feeder Marathon


Finishers


BQ


Cutoff


Finishers


BQ


Cutoff


St. George Marathon


5799


995


851


5462


948


948


Portland Marathon


6258


423


357


5550


428


428


Twin Cities Marathon


8848


1039


882


8586


942


942


Chicago Marathon


40801


4027


3441


37182


3658


3658


Steamtown Marathon


2183


430


365


2227


435


435


Baystate Marathon


1527


376


311


1419


347


347


Columbus Marathon


5538


621


526


4431


524


524


Toronto Waterfront Marathon


3969


653


549


3749


634


634


Marine Corp Marathon


19661


717


596


23197


843


843


Indianapolis Monumental Marathon


3725


592


486


3999


575


575


New York City Marathon


50433


3629


3121


49828


3769


3769


Richmond Marathon


5093


518


431


4509


448


448


Philadelphia Marathon


10330


1334


1100


9153


1253


1253


California International Marathon


5777


1283


1085


5629


1218


1218


Houston Marathon


7132


698


583


7793


926


926


Boston Marathon


26610


12767


11639


26639


9498


9498


Bayshore Marathon


2043


342


298


2012


206


206


Mountains 2 Beach Marathon


1602


454


369


2006


603


603


Ottawa Marathon


4501


806


687


4181


631


631


Grandma's Marathon


6075


1134


972


7521


564


564


Santa Rosa Marathon


1440


341


270


1276


247


247


Lehigh Valley Marathon


945


207


164


988


145


145


Big Cottonwood Marathon


1265


317


267


1333


392


392


Erie Marathon


1522


496


364


1382


410


410


 


223077


34199


29714


220052


29644


29644


 


 


15.3%


13.3%


 


13.5%


13.5%


 


 


 


0:02:28


 


 


0:00:00




http://community.runnersworld.com/topic/bq-for-2017-analysis?page=13

Here's the data anyway.

 
I always wondered if there would be a qualifying bump due to runners who wanted to run after the 2013 bombing.  Perhaps things are leveling off?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Juxtatarot said:
I always wondered if there would be a qualifying bump due to runners who wanted to run after the 2013 bombing.  Perhaps things are leveling off?
Click to expand...
There was definitely a bump after the bombing and also may have been a slight bump last year because it was the 120th. I think the main reason the standard may be lower is because bad weather for some of the major marathons last year. Look at Boston...it was hot and there was 3300 less qualifiers in 2016 than 2015. 

 
Hang 10 said:
There was definitely a bump after the bombing and also may have been a slight bump last year because it was the 120th. I think the main reason the standard may be lower is because bad weather for some of the major marathons last year. Look at Boston...it was hot and there was 3300 less qualifiers in 2016 than 2015. 
Click to expand...
The bump since 2013 has been crazy.  I've looked at AG numbers before and after, and the 'before' numbers are meaningless.  The field became much faster after 2013. 

 
Kafka said:
:hifive:

eta: sorry guys, not a runner, just a lurker who used to be a runner, but I love this thread...it inspires me to feel even more guilty!  It's phenomenal what you guys are able to achieve.  Well done, all.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we're a veritable beacon of health and happiness in the FFA jungle.  :P

 
Man I would love to run Boston. It will never happen for me.

I'm just not built for marathon running, especially at the speed I would need for qualifying. 

 
I survived my 10k, but man was it freaking hot for a 7:30 am start.  Realized my first 3 miles were a lot like a normal 5k which completely screwed me for the last 3.  I need to train for longer distance more often.  I was gassed.  Took a couple of days off, but heading to the gym tonight and back out running probably Friday night.  Ugh.

 
Ned said:
Wonder how much of that's water weight.  I'm 8# over my racing weight right now, FWIW.  I'm willing to bet most of its water retention due to running in all this heat.  
Click to expand...
I'm about 25 over.  I figure it's all just water weight.  

 
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