tri-man 47
Footballguy
As to the long training runs, I actually prefer to run a couple/few 21 or 22 milers. The thought is to narrow the time gap between the long runs (at a slow pace) and the marathon (at a 'fast' pace). It seems to work for me.
I noticed that was part of your plan and it's floating around in the back of my head. I know lots of ultra people do it, for obvious reasons, but hadn't seen much of it in marathon programs. Makes sense though. Still letting it marinate before I consider implementing it. I'll probably use it more as a backup plan if winter weather dictates, but nowhere near deciding.Something to consider is back to back runs on the weekend. This is the first year I've followed up my long runs with another double digit run. It's pretty brutal some weekends but it definitely gets you used to running on tired legs.
I'm running a 10K Saturday. Probably my last chance to get some quality in before the marathon.I noticed that was part of your plan and it's floating around in the back of my head. I know lots of ultra people do it, for obvious reasons, but hadn't seen much of it in marathon programs. Makes sense though. Still letting it marinate before I consider implementing it. I'll probably use it more as a backup plan if winter weather dictates, but nowhere near deciding.
Just to be sure - we don't have anything else in here between now and Richmond, right?
I really like the idea of running a 10k two weeks out from a marathon, good luck. I will be running a 10k myself the following week, two weeks out from my marathon.I'm running a 10K Saturday. Probably my last chance to get some quality in before the marathon.
Yeah, supposedly the fitness adaptation is right at 2 weeks for a 10K race. So it works out perfect.I really like the idea of running a 10k two weeks out from a marathon, good luck. I will be running a 10k myself the following week, two weeks out from my marathon.
Great stuff @bushdocda! Way to battle through, and congrats!Marine Corp Marathon recap – 10/22/2017
Takeaways
I thought about this group plenty of times during the race and appreciate the support and shared insights and information. I thought a lot about my training and how prepared I thought I was. The advice provided here is gold and I can and will train much smarter for future races. This will absolutely not be my last marathon and I love having a benchmark to work with now. I knew as soon as I wrapped my training period that I ####ed up by not having a session of 4 hours on my feet. That would have helped my mind and body tremendously. Personal choice, I know, but for me that would be the one thing I changed over the cycle. The training and base I need to work on will need to be better supported by a stronger core/lower body/back. My abs are sore as #### right now and I am going to get my groin/adductor/lower abs checked out soon. Pretty much been the same since March with a nagging pull on the left side that doesn’t hurt while running but aches like a ##### the rest of the time. I’ll see how that goes and recover and maybe run a half in December at the beach where I run a lot to support the race. Then get some weight sessions to stick over the winter while keeping some moderate mileage (for me) going. Don’t know exactly what I’ll target for next year’s marathon(s) yet. Will probably not be Marine Corp again next year although I will try to qualify through the March 17k run I did this year that was awesome. If I do, I’ll probably defer entry to the next year as I want to target other fall marathon options next year – mainly smaller format of which there are plenty of options I want to take on as I progress. Looking forward to planning some stuff out and hopefully progressing. Will take this week off, maybe spin a bike later in the week.
Thanks to all for the support and guidance, it means a lot.
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I like getting in at least one 22 miler during a training cycle for marathon-50K. With a bunch of 20 milers in a typical cycle, I just like that extra bit of time on feet at least once.As to the long training runs, I actually prefer to run a couple/few 21 or 22 milers. The thought is to narrow the time gap between the long runs (at a slow pace) and the marathon (at a 'fast' pace). It seems to work for me.![]()
So, it's been almost 3 weeks since this. I've noticed some big changes in my effort and speed as I noted recently. My initial loose plan based on calculators and what I had done was to try and see if I could do the 15K at an 8:30 pace. Over the last 2 1/2 weeks, I've bumped up my total miles as well as taken on longer runs and it's gone pretty well. But, I've also noticed a trend where my pace is going up during these longer runs without even trying to. Last week, I started what was supposed to be a long run that got faster and by the 5th mile, hearing my splits, I decided to push and I was running at a 7:50 pace (faster than my 5k race speed). I still had another mile left at 8:40 pace and it felt good, not overly tired in the least.A word about the calculators...
When you're trying to figure how fast you can run a longer race the calculator makes the assumption that you've taken the time to train for the specific race in question. It also assumes your 5K is about the top end of your speed.If you're using your first race as the input neither of things are probably going to be very accurate.
At this point @gianmarco you most likely don't have the endurance for the 15K but on the other hand, you've got more speed potential than your first 5K could possibly show. That's why you just to need to run more and reassess.![]()
Heading there tomorrow. ThanksMaybe if I tell you should ignore the pain and continue to run, you'll do the opposite and go have it looked at.![]()
But seriously, there's a reason I told you to go see someone right away. What you are suffering from may be a quick fix but if you ignore pain and allow inflammation to set in you can make small issue a big one. By continuing to train you may have put your race at risk or worse. Don't wait any longer.
Hope they can clear this up for you JShare. Good luck.Just checking in. My leg is not good. I am no doctor, but I am almost positive it is my Sciatic nerve as suggested in here. I haven’t seen a doctor yet (please don’t attack me). I originally thought it was something I could push through as it has been going on for a little less than a week. I haven’t stopped running, mainly because it just started to get cool out and from a fitness standpoint, I am really starting to hit my stride.
During yesterday’s 6x400s at 5K pace my entire leg was on fire, and I couldn’t really stride at all. After the run, my leg was in pretty rough shape. It hurt to sit, stand, and even sleep. When I woke up this morning, it was really sore, and I couldn’t walk normally. I went through the entire day with little pain, but a weird tingly feeling was present, and I was still not able to walk correctly.
Fast forward to the gym about an hour ago. I worked out my upper body and decided to try out a recovery run on the treadmill. I set it to around an 11 minute pace and made it about .05 miles before the pain was too much. I am going to try and shoot over to the chiropractor tomorrow and see if they can fit me in. I really want to run in this half-marathon on Sunday. I am sure a few of you have dealt with this before. Any advice besides for stop running to help? I’ve been doing the stretches that someone posted here. Thanks in advance.
jb1020 said:I'll recommend a Peloton...I've had one 25 days now. Ridden 21 days. I have to make myself take a day off. I have a long way to go, but I can tell this thing is a major step in the right direction.
Yeah, I really think a few 4-6 mile goal pace runs will do him well. If you have juice left at the end and feel fine after then you may have a faster pace in you.Hang 10 said:@gianmarco
You could always run another 5k to check your current fitness. Probably not a bad idea to find one 2-3 weeks before your goal race.
And yes, when you run a 15k Id say that probably 80% is supposed be uncomfortable to down right painful. You probably don't want run your first this way because you probably aren't going to know how uncomfortable is normal or manageable.
You could also try to add some runs in the 4-6 mile range with with half of it at goal pace. Test things out. Trial and error.
Also, cold weather should effect your race...in a good way. Unless it's well below freezing we all pray for cold and light wind for race day.
No matter what the doc says rest until Sunday. You can't do anything to help your race at this point. Only hurt it. Freshness > fitness, if cleared to run then go for it, but don't be afraid to bail if it isn't right.Heading there tomorrow. Thanks
I'm sitting here getting close to a year of virtually no running because I ignored the pain and kept training through it.Just checking in. My leg is not good. I am no doctor, but I am almost positive it is my Sciatic nerve as suggested in here. I haven’t seen a doctor yet (please don’t attack me). I originally thought it was something I could push through as it has been going on for a little less than a week. I haven’t stopped running, mainly because it just started to get cool out and from a fitness standpoint, I am really starting to hit my stride.
During yesterday’s 6x400s at 5K pace my entire leg was on fire, and I couldn’t really stride at all. After the run, my leg was in pretty rough shape. It hurt to sit, stand, and even sleep. When I woke up this morning, it was really sore, and I couldn’t walk normally. I went through the entire day with little pain, but a weird tingly feeling was present, and I was still not able to walk correctly.
Fast forward to the gym about an hour ago. I worked out my upper body and decided to try out a recovery run on the treadmill. I set it to around an 11 minute pace and made it about .05 miles before the pain was too much. I am going to try and shoot over to the chiropractor tomorrow and see if they can fit me in. I really want to run in this half-marathon on Sunday. I am sure a few of you have dealt with this before. Any advice besides for stop running to help? I’ve been doing the stretches that someone posted here. Thanks in advance.
Yup. I hate that you and I have had to learn lessons the hard way. Not many races worth putting yourself on the shelf indefinitely for...I'm sitting here getting close to a year of virtually no running because I ignored the pain and kept training through it.
I'm definitely hooked. I basically have to force myself to take a day off. I haven't gone for a run in a while, but I intend too soon. My running got to be such a struggle the past 2 years. Trying to drop about 15 pounds and get under 200 again and the sprinkle a few runs in.![]()
Great to hear you’re hooked. Are you running at all? I wish I could go out and do a 5K test run just once to see what it’s like to run with legs and hips as strong as mine are now, relative to how they were when I was running.
The plyometric aspect was really interesting. He talked about how muscles, heart, etc, continue to adapt to stimulus throughout a run. But tendons only get the adaptation benefit for up to about 10 minutes or so. So 6-7 hours before or after a run, do 6 minutes of jump rope to load those same tendons used in running. To maximize the effectiveness with nutritional support (probably more important if you are injured), take 10-15 g of gelatin with 50 mg of vitamin c an hour before to maximize the body's ability to support collagen synthesis - 4+ tsp of gelatin in 3 oz of OJ would do it. So simple.A healthy runner can improve running economy with a stiffer muscle-tendon/sinew system. Stiffening tendon/sinew alone can cause imbalance and lead to muscle strain. Strengthening muscle alone can cause relative weakening of tendon/sinew and lead to train of those tissues. So, runners should do both types of workouts...heavy resistance training (isometric at first, if not used to heavy weight training) 2-3x per week along with plyometric training every day for 5-6 minutes (separated by 6-7 hours from any other training of the lower limbs) such as jumping rope. This is true for the runner who does not have a history of either muscle strain or tendon strain. If the runner is prone to muscle strain, then slow heavy resistance training will be emphasized and possibly performed more often. If the runner has a history of tendon/sinew strain, then plyometric movements, such as jump-rope, would be emphasized with less strength training.
Things you did before trying this faster pace - your first ever 15K, a 5K in a gorilla costume, and the most miles you've ever done in a week - by a lot. I think you should try it again, but make sure you're more rested.Couple runs in. Tried my first one last night at a faster pace and completely blew up. Oof. Starting at 8:15 pace completely wrecked me and my breathing was way out of whack. I was struggling before even hitting 1 mile and it was my worst run in quite a while. Barely made 2.5 miles and had to actually stop at one point. I learned that I'm not quite ready for that pace just yet to start and that I have to start on the slower side and build. I probably need to work on some anaerobic stuff to improve that or need to plan on running a mile or so before a race to get myself warmed up. Either way, very humbling run.
Today, started a bit slower (also aided by initial downhill) at closer to 8:45 pace and did MUCH better. I was able to do 4 miles at average of 8:30 with improving pace throughout. It was a good zone, a little harder than usual but still very doable and had plenty to keep going at the end. I pushed a little too hard at the beginning of the 3rd mile and dialed it back a bit and got back into a better pace that I could hold. It was a good run. Of note, the 2nd half was running against a decent wind, which was my first time running into that, and that was no joke. It made me think of @SteelCurtain and his race report dealing with the wind.
Still have some trial and error to go but much appreciate the advice so far on how to approach this next race.
Btw, who is going this weekend other than @JShare87?
Yeah. And it was definitely a mistake. That's what I was saying is that I'm noticing anytime I start too fast, even at a pace I know I can do, I get tired really quickly and I do much better starting slowly. When I first started running, that wasn't the case, but certainly is now. This part is still pretty new for me but I'm learning how I do far better starting at a slower than goal pace. I'll just have to learn how slow to start before picking it up.@gianmarco Did you start out fast from the first steps? Most of us need a mile or two to get loose and warmed up.
I’m going to run on Sunday regardless and push through the pain.
just like you ate all that rice.
I ran my marathon at 7:35/mile, but I can't do a first mile faster than 9 min. Maybe 8:45 if its a warm day.@gianmarco Did you start out fast from the first steps? Most of us need a mile or two to get loose and warmed up.
That is really helpful to read.... thank you. I even tried Google searching that and couldn't find much. I'm discovering this is me and virtually all my bad/difficult runs come from me starting too fast and my best runs come after a slow warmup start.I ran my marathon at 7:35/mile, but I can't do a first mile faster than 9 min. Maybe 8:45 if its a warm day.
Warming up is critical, especially as you get older.
I would think you’d see a gradual increase in pace of most runs after first 2 miles on a Strava (depending on the goals of the run) but some are going to track warms/cools separate or maybe not at all.That is really helpful to read.... thank you. I even tried Google searching that and couldn't find much. I'm discovering this is me and virtually all my bad/difficult runs come from me starting too fast and my best runs come after a slow warmup start.
It's dumb because I've been looking at all of you guys and your runs to see if this was the case and wasn't seeing it. I figured it was just something that would take time but now I'm not going to really worry about it as I think that's just how it is for me. If it ever gets better, great, but clearly no big deal if it doesn't.
JShare87 said:Just spent the past half hour getting a butt rub from some random dude (not Tri-man), thanks Mac and Hang10.
Got the results a couple days ago. She has fanconi anemia. Most likely we're looking at the procedure in the spring.My daughter's hip surgery which was scheduled for Nov 1 is on hold until we figure out what's going on with her blood. In the next week or so we'll find out if she has Fanconi anemia, which would probably mean she goes to Memphis for over 3 months of chemotherapy and a bone marrow transplant. Wife would take her, I'll stay back, work and take care of our 4 boys.
This better not cost me a coffee mug.Went on an ATV weekend with some friends and was experiencing pretty bad shoulder and pectoral pain on left side.pain lasted for 2 days then went away so I chucked it up to new muscles being used. pain returned in severe fashion yesterday out of the blue.no muscle pain or breathing issues while running yesterday so not a typical heart issue. anyway, googling is making me a little uneasy so I will pop by an MD today.
Man, sorry to hear this. Prayers coming to you and your family.Got the results a couple days ago. She has fanconi anemia. Most likely we're looking at the procedure in the spring.
So now we're starting to get smart on screening for bone marrow donations, helping organize blood drives, and planning for a few months apart.
It will be alright, we're actually both in a good place with it, figure maybe we can help do more good through the experience. If she were still in China this would be an early death sentence. It will be a tough year or two between this and her hip surgery. But her zest for life is amazing. She's the happiest 3 year old we've ever met, lights up the world.