Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Ran a 10k - Official Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
Ned
Footballguy
You don't know that yet. What if 143 is really a recovery zone for you? What if 143 is a sprint zone? They're extreme examples, but it's the whole point I was making the other day. You don't know your zones yet, so just go run.
Run comfortably on most days (able to go "forever" while talking to someone). Every once in a while go do a hard run. Follow that up with a recovery run (embarrassingly easy). Race a couple of 5Ks hard. Rinse/repeat for a few months. Don't worry about the HR numbers while you're running, just let the watch & Strava collect the data for you. After a few months, we'll go back and analyze the data to see where your zones might be at.
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
Right now I have the garmin set to buzz if I go out of a zone. Are you saying to turn that off and just do my thing? I originally got those zones by plugging in my resting HR and my max HR. The max HR was from several years ago and I updated the resting from 50 to 60.
I do think you are saying to turn the notifications off and I can give that a shot. Part of my problem in the past is I have a hard time not burning myself out if I dont have anything telling me to slow down.
FUBAR
Footballguy
yes, very much this.
When you actually know your zones, use them. Right now you don't know your zones and are basically guessing.
If you don't want to race for a couple months and don't want to follow Ned's advice (which you should, but there are other perspectives), one option would be to use the MAF method:
I don't know that this is the best thing for you as a 50 year old, but it's a proven technique.
Last edited by a moderator:
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
@Nigel Probably a sign from the running gods that you should run with a water bottle?!
@MAC_32 I love the aggressiveness. I hope you decide to go for sub 18 5K again this spring/summer. I think your focus on higher mileage will pay off.
261.9 miles for me for February. Ran all 29 days to keep the streak going. Last day off was December 28.
@MAC_32 I love the aggressiveness. I hope you decide to go for sub 18 5K again this spring/summer. I think your focus on higher mileage will pay off.
261.9 miles for me for February. Ran all 29 days to keep the streak going. Last day off was December 28.
FUBAR
Footballguy
February:
7 trainer rides / 8.5 hrs / 167 miles
16 runs / 21 hrs / 144.5 miles
4 swims / 4 hrs / 6.6 miles
1 strength training session (pretty sure I did more than one but if it's not logged, did it happen?)
February's training took a hit due to tapering and then getting sick. :X but overall I can't complain too much.
Need to swim and ride more over the next 6 months.
YTD:
17 trainer rides / 19 hrs / 374 miles
36 runs / 45 hrs / 315.5 miles
6 swims / 5.5 hrs / 9.6 miles
8 strength training sessions
Last edited by a moderator:
Nigel
Footballguy
Ball of right foot is unrelated to left ankle, ongoing issue, just cannot get comfortable in any shoe/sock combo. It was worse than usual though. I really need to look into orthotics.
Bounced back great from Saturfays's 20 despite hating it, no soreness at all anywhere yesterday. Did 40 min on the stationary bike felt strong. I recall last year after my only 20 that training cycle being crippled the day after, so this is progress. Looking forward to an easy recovery run in perfect weather today at lunch.
MAC_32
Footballguy
It probably won't be Spring as my primary focus is a sub 90 half in May, but given this past month it's now in the back of my mind for Fall. The way the last couple weeks have gone I'm real curious what I can do in that 5 miler in 2 weeks though. It's a difficult course and the weather can wreak havoc with it being along the lake (wind and rain are common), but my recent training runs have been faster than my race pace the last 2 years (just above and below 34 mins) at much less effort. I guess if that race goes well enough then maybe I'll look for a 5K during my down week in April as I don't have anything planned between the 5 miler and the half (May 15th).
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
resting 60
max 191
Max is from years ago. Resting used to be 150 but I checked a few weeks ago and 60 was best I could get.
Hang 10
Footballguy
I'm going to guess that 150 resting was a typo?
Anyway, I think you're heart rate reserve zones are going to work MUCH better for you. http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/heart-rate-calculators/hrzone?minHR=60&maxHR=191&Submit=Calculate
Zone
What it does
% of Heart Rate
Reserve
Heart rate
beats per minute
Long, slow runs, easy or recovery runs
Training in this zone improves the ability of your heart to pump blood and improve the muscles’ ability to utilize oxygen. The body becomes more efficient at feeding the working muscles, and learns to metabolise fat as a source of fuel.
60-70%
139 – 152
Aerobic zone or "target heart rate zone"
Most effective for overall cardiovascular fitness. Increases your cardio-respitory capacity: that is, the your ability to transport oxygenated blood to the muscle cells and carbon dioxide away from the cells. Also effective for increasing overall muscle strength.
70-80%
152 – 165
Anaerobic zone
The point at which the body cannot remove lactic acid as quickly as it is produced is called the lactate threshold or anaerobic threshold. It generally occurs at about 80-88% of the Heart Rate Reserve. Training in this zone helps to increase the lactate threshold, which improves performance. Training in this zone is hard: your muscles are tired, your breathing is heavy.
80-90%
165 – 178
VO2 max
"Red line zone"
You should only train in this zone if you re very fit, and only for very short periods of time. Lactic acid develops quickly as you are operating in oxygen debt to the muscles The value of training in this zone is you can increase your fast twitch muscle fibers which increase speed.
90-100%
178 – 191
ChiefD
Footballguy
That chart is always what has baffled me about HR training. Those zones are so wide in those categories that I never really know where I am in terms of the "right" workout.
For example, for me, if I am in the easy zone per your chart above, running at 140 is a big difference for me than running at 152 in terms of effort and pace. Yet I am theoretically still in the easy zone.
Is there are concrete way, other than a really educated guess based on your workouts, to know when you have crossed from one zone to the next?
Last edited by a moderator:
Hang 10
Footballguy
I think you're looking at it the wrong way. You basically have more freedom with the larger zone. Sometimes your HR isn't the best indicator of how you're feeling. Sometimes my HR is low but my legs feel like garbage or my body just feels tired. Those days I stay on the low end of the zone. Days were my legs feel great and HR is normal, I may run to the higher side of the zone. The monitor is a nice tool but you still have to know your own body.
Last edited by a moderator:
tri-man 47
Footballguy
And, too, the HR often increases over the course of a workout (especially, for me, in the aerobic zone and above). Today (one of those garbage leg days after a swim late last night), I had 6 miles tempo that started around low 150s and ended at 159. I was in the aerobic zone, but moving through it.
Prosopis, our min/max HRs are virtually identical, and the chart Hang 10 posted is a very good fit for my training zones, FWIW. My pyramid of training is an inverted scale of that chart (more runs in the long, slow range and building up from there). I was thinking again today that you could benefit greatly by using your local hills for some hill repeats once a week or so.
Nigel
Footballguy
Had an unexpectedly fast 7.1M run at lunch, lots of hills, Strava had it at 7:27 but as they like to do screwed me out of an additional 1/10 mile. So a little faster than that, with a 45:55 10K segment in there. Felt pretty close to race effort but I went kind of easy on the downhills due to the ankle, so wasn't all out. Good confidence boost to run some faster miles, it had been a while.
I ran with a 26 yo girl who works for me, she makes it look so damn easy. She's training for a May marathon, her first, will be surprised if she doesn't run a 3:15.
I ran with a 26 yo girl who works for me, she makes it look so damn easy. She's training for a May marathon, her first, will be surprised if she doesn't run a 3:15.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Anyone racing this weekend? I've decided to jump into a 5K for a tuneup race. Would LOVE to see a sub 6 minute average pace. That has always seemed like a "fast" time to me. Which got me thinking about what I used to consider "fast" and how that's changed. I think when I ran my first race, the thought of averaging 7:00 for 5 miles seemed incredibly fast. Then it was sub 7's for a half marathon. Then it was sub 40 for a 10K. Now I think it's pretty much anything that's faster than I can run.
Would be interested to hear what everyone else's idea of fast is and/or the evolution of the concept.
Would be interested to hear what everyone else's idea of fast is and/or the evolution of the concept.
Last edited by a moderator:
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
Thank you I will try this. Those zones look to make more sense to me and yes the 150 was a typo. I work in the medical field and I am always surprised by folks who have high resting HR and dont even notice it. I would be freaking out and heading to an ER if my resting HR was 100.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Hang 10 - thanks 
That site is almost perfect for me.
http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/heart-rate-calculators/hrzone?minHR=45&maxHR=195&Submit=Calculate
Long runs up to 150 matches my lab test from a year ago. 165 and 180 as the upper limits of the next two zones seems to meet my experience too.
That site is almost perfect for me. http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/heart-rate-calculators/hrzone?minHR=45&maxHR=195&Submit=Calculate
Long runs up to 150 matches my lab test from a year ago. 165 and 180 as the upper limits of the next two zones seems to meet my experience too.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Pretty much all of you, that's what "fast" is. You guys run marathons at paces faster than I would do speed work.....if I did speed work.Hang 10 said:
Speaking of of not doing work, I'm in Orlando for a week of sales training, 8:30-5:30 in meeting rooms every day and too much "networking" every night, which all started with a red eye flight on Sunday which really helps with the jet lag
. So no running since Saturday for me, but I am planning on sneaking out today to get something in. Not so inspired when I look out my 9th floor window and literally can't see a hill.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think if your thought process/goals/approach/whatever isn't constantly changing then you're meant to run for health/fun; not competitively. Even if it's the weekend warrior variety like all-non Steve runner's are here. The thought of running 13 miles just two years ago was laughable in my mind and just a year ago it took careful planning because I knew I would be worthless the rest of the day once completed. Fast forward to a week ago and I 'squeezed one in' between leaving work early and going to a Springsteen concert. I didn't think much of it at the time when a buddy of mine said I'm going to enjoy these half and full times while I can because you're going to slaughter them once you get some miles on your legs. I didn't think much of it because I never thought I'd be able to do this distance fast. I get it now. And I don't even think I'm fast. It's just relative to him I am.Hang 10 said:
I guess it's exactly what you wrote in the last sentence of your first paragraph - whatever is faster than you're currently doing is considered fast. If what you're currently doing is constantly changing then your definition of fast will adjust with it.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Yeah, I think you're right that it's all relative. 10 years ago, I thought people that ran half marathons were nuts. 13 miles?! Noway. Then I started hanging out with ironmen and ultra marathoners and it seemed less crazy...even normal. Then I became an ultra marathoner.
Same thing with my idea of who or what was fast. No matter how much I improve, I'm always looking up at a group of runners that I consider fast. Hopefully one day I'll be able to look back and be content with some of the things I've accomplished but right now I don't really want to be satisfied with anything because I don't want to lose that drive to get better.
FUBAR
Footballguy
very much this.
It's not quite the same but I had to laugh to myself last week when I was talking to my wife about how I'm glad I won't be doing anything longer than a marathon after May this year so I can work on speed. After a few years of 50Ks, HIMs, and the one IM, a marathon no longer seems incredibly daunting. Doing one fast is a different story.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Agreed. And so much of this is based on training. I've been able to train differently - and better - with my new academic schedule, and it has quickly been reflected in my recent marathon time. I won't even try to predict a Boston time until the end of March and the completion of my training cycle. Beyond the training is the race experience. Similar to FUBAR, I'm amazed that the marathon distance for me is, now, a race ...not just a long run with hopes of finishing. Crazy. But if I switch gears and start focused training on 5Ks again, I'm sure my times will come down to some surprising level. Or if I jump into tri-training, that, too, will be reflective of the work I put in.
Bottom line, we shouldn't artificially set limits because we don't know what our limits are!
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I had a nice treadmill run today. After a 2.5 mile warm up, I set to 10.0 mph (6:00 pace) for 4.5 miles then sped up to 10.4 mph (5:45 pace) for a final 0.5 mile. That last 0.5 is my goal pace for the 5K I'm running in a week and a half.
Probably what is most encouraging is cardiovascular-wise, I seemed fine. Breathing was elevated but under control. I didn't wear a HR monitor but I'm sure it was in check too. My legs were starting to tire and mentally I wanted to slow down but otherwise I think I could have gone for much longer. That 5 mile part is the fastest I've ever run for that distance. I probably can't run like this outside with the wind and hills but it's still nice.
Probably what is most encouraging is cardiovascular-wise, I seemed fine. Breathing was elevated but under control. I didn't wear a HR monitor but I'm sure it was in check too. My legs were starting to tire and mentally I wanted to slow down but otherwise I think I could have gone for much longer. That 5 mile part is the fastest I've ever run for that distance. I probably can't run like this outside with the wind and hills but it's still nice.
koby925
Footballguy
I'm all over the map with what I've considered fast and when. And like others said it's a constant state of adjusting expectations based on age, experience and training. If setting lifetime PRs were my only goal these days I wouldn't enjoy running at all because I will never approach PRs again unless I run a new distance. But I can set age/effort based or seasonal goals and I still enjoy that challenge with myself.Hang 10 said:
Hang 10
Footballguy
See your perspective is totally different that mine. Weren't you a high school or college runner? I didn't start running races until I was 30 and didn't take them serious until a few years ago. There's obviously no wrong answer. I just find it interesting to hear people's individual takes.
Had a nice training run with a buddy today and knocked out 10 miles @ 8:12 (149). LOVE seeing that BPM dropping. :ned:
Nigel
Footballguy
Standards/perspectives change. When I was 20 I wouldn't have looked at the 50 year old lady at Starbucks who made my coffee as anything more than a coffee lady. This morning I viewed her as someone who, if I wasn't married, I'd bang if I was in a pinch. Same with speed. It's not where you were, it's where you are.
FUBAR
Footballguy
funny enough, I'm squarely in the middle. I ran cross country as a freshman in HS, IIRC with a best time in the 18s so nothing exceptional but I'll have a hard time beating that if even if I focused on the 5k. I won't come close to my half mile time (in the low 2s). My best two mile time in college was in the 11s (ROTC), which I would also have to focus hard on to beat, but I do think it's doable. I swam for a few years and will never touch my 500 time but that's okay - I also won't race a 500.
But I'm healthier than ever and faster in long distances.
Hang 10
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
That's a good point. It's probably a good thing, but all the bench marks I set in high school really discouraged me once I seemed to peak at 5K's a year and a half ago causing me to start focusing more on distance and trails. That cannot be the case with you, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is with koby.
Ned
Footballguy
It's cool seeing all the different perspectives/experiences.
@FUBAR- don't sell yourself short. 18 as a freshman is nothing to sneeze at.
I was a HS runner and am faster now than I've ever been in my life. Even after being a fat lazy slug this winter, I'm sure I'd still kick my 18yr old self's ###.
#latebloomer
@FUBAR- don't sell yourself short. 18 as a freshman is nothing to sneeze at.
I was a HS runner and am faster now than I've ever been in my life. Even after being a fat lazy slug this winter, I'm sure I'd still kick my 18yr old self's ###.
#latebloomer
koby925
Footballguy
Yeah HS and college and then no racing again until my late 30s. I'm now 41 and some of the flashes of Glory Days sometimes make very brief appearances, but I've learned the hard way that being old is about control. And not seeking that max stress effort on the body. Recovery is by far the hardest part of aging. But then again, if you get into the game late you probably train wiser than a kid would.
Nigel
Nigel
Footballguy
Got fit for custom orthos today, finally. The fact that I waited so long is ridiculous. She took plaster casts of my feet and holy crap my right foot is a mess. Left one is normal, right one is an uneven mess. I wish I'd taken a picture of the molds, it was startling. The lady asked if I wore metal braces on my legs as a kid..."like Forrest Gump?" I asked. Yes, she said, and she wasn't joking. She confirmed what I was feeling, my four little toes are doing nothing while the ball of my foot gets pounded and I only get push off from my big toe. Will hopefully get them back next week, should be just enough time to get used to them. Can't wait.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Nigel said:
The only downside to this thread that I can think of is it can get me to obsess over things I otherwise wouldn't even think about. When I was running this morning I kept trying to figure out whether I'm using my little toes to push off? Hell, I'm not even sure I'm using my big toes! 
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Well hey, quick stepper, your feet aren't on the ground long enough for your toes to have much say in the matter!
Hang 10
Footballguy
Almost 5K time! 
Training has been going well and I feel pretty good but it's hard to forget how bad the last one hurt. I'm really not sure what to expect tomorrow. I will be disappointed if I don't better last months time but to do that, I'm going to have to have a good day. We shall see!
Training has been going well and I feel pretty good but it's hard to forget how bad the last one hurt. I'm really not sure what to expect tomorrow. I will be disappointed if I don't better last months time but to do that, I'm going to have to have a good day. We shall see!
ChiefD
Footballguy
GL. I'm sure you will crush it as usual.Almost 5K time!
ChiefD
Footballguy
Yeah, the higher temps will elevate HR a little bit.prosopis said:
And when I started the HR training 2 springs ago, I was seeing dang near the exact same results as you in terms of HR and pace. I pissed and moaned about it many times here.
But, it works. Takes forever, but it works.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Yeah, I probably deserve that.
You know how it goes though. It's a tuneup race. So you want to do well but it's not the ultimate goal. Plus, I feel good but I'm not quite ready to call my shot here and look like a schmuck if I #### the bed.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Hang 10
Footballguy
My PR is 18:49 but on a slightly long course. My last 5K last month I averaged 6:00. So yeah, definitely trying to do better than that. Anything extra would be a pleasant surprise.
