ChiefD
Footballguy
I probably will. I do feel like I have some unfinished business with the marathon - basically sub 4:00.
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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
FUBAR
Footballguy
December. HIM in May, a few local Oly/Sprint Tri's this summer, then the December marathon. I don't even have a fall race yet (registration opens for the HM in a few months).
Hang 10
Footballguy
Oh geez...for some reason I thought it was sooner because all the long runs you've done lately. Guess that's for the other marathon?
FUBAR
Footballguy
yeah, that's for this weekend's marathon. http://jager66.wix.com/mitchellsplash#!
http://www.citizen-times.com/story/life/2016/02/23/run-mount-mitchell-summit-saturday/80520336/
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
Swimming sniffles/sneezing solved: Bought a nose clip, swam last night, and had no issues afterwards. However, between my Aqua Sphere Vista goggles (http://www.leisurepro.com/p-asrvsgb/aqua-sphere-vista-swim-mask-with-smoke-lenses-grey-blue?gclid=CJDjzOD7jssCFZWFaQodkT0IQw&kwid=productads-plaid^74695381674-sku^ASRVSGB@ADL4LP-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^88200967873) and now a nose clip, I'm not exactly making a fashion statement in the pool.
worrierking
Footballguy
Doc and I decided on a scoping for my knee. It's the best chance for me to be normal, although it is possible it won't do any good at all. It's scheduled for March 16th. I am going to call a retired orthopedist who I know through McNeese football to see if he thinks it's a good decision or if he thinks the doc is just pushing surgery because it's better for him financially.
Ned
Footballguy
Yeah, I looked into the logistics (who I need to talk to about getting a spot, what races I can run, getting into the races) during my week off and the first couple of weeks back. It actually took a good 4 weeks of post-marathon hangover before my training came around last week. It's funny how quickly things turn around, about 10 days ago I was starting to think about pulling the plug on an April marathon because the 4-5 workouts I tried to do up to that point were absolute crap. Then I went ahead and strung together 3 decent workouts in a row. (in fact, after this morning's workout I think I may even be able to run a half-marathon PR if I got into the right race in the next 2-3 weeks). I guess the old rule-of-thumb "it takes about one day for each mile you race to recover fully" rule is true in this case.
I got into Rotterdam and Hamburg, but I am fairly set on Hamburg given the better accommodations I am probably going to get from that race and the timing of the race. It's only one week later than Rotterdam, but in terms of some stuff I have going on at work it makes a huge difference.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
Steve what an awesome opportunity! Nothing but the best man, follow the dream then CRUSH IT!Hi all, sorry for not being around for the past couple of weeks. I made a decision to take on more responsibilities at work that ended up being more time consuming than I expected. (then again, I am sure almost everyone here can relate, so I am not going to ##### about it, part of growing up)
I was going through the thread and trying to catch up on the last 2-3 weeks I've missed before I make a big personal announcement on the running front, and it looks like MAC ran a huge PR at a local 10K and there is an impending showdown at Broad Street. (which is a bucketlist race of mine, but I can't run it this year due to the latest curveball I have been thrown in my spring racing plan). Looks like this year's Boston marathon crew is putting together some solid training as well.
I am going to piggyback off of Triman's post above since it's related to some huge news I got about a month ago, but I have finally done enough research/follow-up/prep and my training is coming around again that I am now comfortable announcing that I am going to follow through with the opportunity of a lifetime.
So I was born in Taiwan and actually moved to the United States when I was 9, and became a naturalized citizen in 2004 at the age of 22. At the time I was a recent college graduate and no plans of running competitively again, so when I was told that U.S. did not recognize dual citizenship with Taiwan I just nodded my head and accepted it as a fact. Well, the weekend of the Houston marathon a friend told me about a dual citizen of Taiwan/U.S that had recently represented Taiwan at the Junior/Youth world championships in 2015 and also competed at USATF junior nationals. My father and I did some research and made a few phone calls after the race and we got confirmation that I am indeed still eligible to represent Taiwan in international competition. Long story short, I am going to try to get an Olympic Marathon qualifier (2:19:00) their qualification window closes, and with only one other Taiwanese national with the standard so far I may have a shot of going to Rio if I get it. I was planning on going for it at Boston, but the kicker is the time has to be run on a IAAF-certified course, and Boston is out. (well, you can get a qualifier if you finish top 10 in that race since it's an IAAF gold label race, but the only way that's happening is if some natural disaster prevented all the Africans from making the trip). The IAAF-certification requirement also pretty much knocks out every race in the U.S. this spring (unreliable conditions, hilly courses, lack of competition). I got into a coupe of fast races in Europe in mid-April, so I'll be putting my money where my mouth is and spending a nice chunk of savings to go chase the time there in a couple of months.
Hang 10
Footballguy
HFMD?
Now I've been diagnosed with HFMD, doc gave me the lecture about running though she didn't order me to not run the marathon this weekend. I'll see how I feel tomorrow but taking it easy today.
Ned
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
yes.
My 11yo was diagnosed Monday, I was yesterday. Makes sense now with my feeling like crap Sunday. Spots on hands, feet and a little around the mouth for me, worse around the mouth for him. My HR was 20 higher than usual at the doc's (70, I usually measure around 50 at checkups, low 40s in the morning. so not horrible but still, the increase isn't good). I think I'm staying home today - one of my teammates is already sick today and I don't want to spread it further. Doesn't help that I met with our chief and deputy chief of police yesterday and the installation's equivalent of our mayor Tuesday (fair chance I exposed them to the virus).
I'm doubting the intelligence of running this weekend or visiting my friends. With the 11yo still not going to school, and my wife (she hasn't had a fever or any symptoms yet) supposed to go see her sister's ultrasound tomorrow, it's looking like I might be skipping out this weekend and watching our kids as she spends time with her family.
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Ugh, that sucks
tri-man 47
Footballguy
FUBAR
Footballguy
thanks all.
while I'm sorely disappointed for missing tomorrow's race and guys' weekend, it'll be okay in the long run. I actually don't feel sick, a little tired but nothing big. Wouldn't even know I had anything if not for these spots on my hands (20 on one, 12 on the other) and feet (less than 10 on each, four on the right heel just came this morning).
I'll just have to sign up for another race and move on.
Good luck to Bass and son tomorrow!
while I'm sorely disappointed for missing tomorrow's race and guys' weekend, it'll be okay in the long run. I actually don't feel sick, a little tired but nothing big. Wouldn't even know I had anything if not for these spots on my hands (20 on one, 12 on the other) and feet (less than 10 on each, four on the right heel just came this morning).
I'll just have to sign up for another race and move on.
Good luck to Bass and son tomorrow!
koby925
Footballguy
Yikes good luck, FUBAR. One of our daughters got HFMD two summers ago and it's more short term nuisance but it really sucks while you are going through it.
My Chiro basically gave me the you look good, only come as needed today. Pinched nerve issue seems to have mostly worked its way out via therapy and PT. On the training front, I'm starting to get into a groove. 5 miles of fartlek yesterday in 33:46 (6:45/mile).
My Chiro basically gave me the you look good, only come as needed today. Pinched nerve issue seems to have mostly worked its way out via therapy and PT. On the training front, I'm starting to get into a groove. 5 miles of fartlek yesterday in 33:46 (6:45/mile).
FUBAR
Footballguy
Just registered for the bridge street half on April 10 and rocket man tri on August 28 (our 17th anniversary). Played the points gained by letting wife go see her family today into approval to spend our anniversary morning doing a tri. And those are two Sundays she'll take the boys to church without me.
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
HR question
I am trying to train by HR. This morning I ran 4 miles avg pace 12:51, HR avg 143. It was excruciatingly slow. Am I doing this right? If I stay the course will my pace eventually increase at the aerobic HR?
Before I had the HR monitor I was running an avg pace of 9:30-10:00. I will say I was struggling at that pace about 3 miles into a run. I could carry on but it was work and I am not sure I would have a good conversation but maybe. With this HR training I can easily have a conversation and I feel like I could run for MUCH longer but I have to physically slow down and at times go to a fast walk to maintain that HR. I consider myself in fairly good shape. I am not over weight. I have only tried this HR training for two runs. Am I being to impatient?
I am trying to train by HR. This morning I ran 4 miles avg pace 12:51, HR avg 143. It was excruciatingly slow. Am I doing this right? If I stay the course will my pace eventually increase at the aerobic HR?
Before I had the HR monitor I was running an avg pace of 9:30-10:00. I will say I was struggling at that pace about 3 miles into a run. I could carry on but it was work and I am not sure I would have a good conversation but maybe. With this HR training I can easily have a conversation and I feel like I could run for MUCH longer but I have to physically slow down and at times go to a fast walk to maintain that HR. I consider myself in fairly good shape. I am not over weight. I have only tried this HR training for two runs. Am I being to impatient?
FUBAR
Footballguy
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
ChiefD
Footballguy
We have all been through this. When I started at that HR (143 ish) I was at around a 12:10 pace. 2 years later, I can run at that same HR in the 10:20 ish range.
But those first few months are tough mentally for sure.
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FUBAR
Footballguy
Where did you get the 143 goal hr?
If you wanted to use the same method many of us do, you'd go 180-age.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Chief, do you have a sense of your max HR? 143 is rather common for my long, slow runs, and that's with a max HR of close to 190.
The old saying is to run 90% of your runs slower, and 10% faster. I believe if you add some consistent speed work on the top end, it will make your body and aerobic capacity stronger, which will more quickly improve that slow pace. Sorry that I'm not remembering what interval and tempo work you've been doing along the way.
The old saying is to run 90% of your runs slower, and 10% faster. I believe if you add some consistent speed work on the top end, it will make your body and aerobic capacity stronger, which will more quickly improve that slow pace. Sorry that I'm not remembering what interval and tempo work you've been doing along the way.
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
I put my resting and Max HR into my Garmin 225 and got the following zones
warm up 85-103
easy 103-120
aerobic 120-137
threshold 137-154
max 154-191
Ned
Footballguy
Prosopis - welcome back! Dude you're old! 
To be honest, we are all just guessing on what you should be running. Basing it on your resting HR (do you really know your true resting HR? It's when you first wake up in bed not just sitting around), or using some generic calculation is just asking to be wrong.
I'd recommend running in that very comfortable range you've found and just collect the data. If you're running and feeling gassed after 3 miles, you're running way too hard for an every day type of aerobic run. You should have that 'I can go forever' feeling or feel like you have more in you when you finish.
After you've collected the data for a few months, you'll be able to see a trend starting to form. It's a much safer way of learning your body. IIRC, your frustrations from the last time was expecting HR training to be a magic bullet. Be super patient - it took me forever to get my arms around it and am still learning today. Ask @Hang 10 how long it took him to 'get it'.
Or you can go race a few 5Ks and hammer the snot out of the last mile to the point you'd rather curl up and die than keep going. That'll give you a close idea of your max that you can then base your training ranges on.
To be honest, we are all just guessing on what you should be running. Basing it on your resting HR (do you really know your true resting HR? It's when you first wake up in bed not just sitting around), or using some generic calculation is just asking to be wrong.
I'd recommend running in that very comfortable range you've found and just collect the data. If you're running and feeling gassed after 3 miles, you're running way too hard for an every day type of aerobic run. You should have that 'I can go forever' feeling or feel like you have more in you when you finish.
After you've collected the data for a few months, you'll be able to see a trend starting to form. It's a much safer way of learning your body. IIRC, your frustrations from the last time was expecting HR training to be a magic bullet. Be super patient - it took me forever to get my arms around it and am still learning today. Ask @Hang 10 how long it took him to 'get it'.
Or you can go race a few 5Ks and hammer the snot out of the last mile to the point you'd rather curl up and die than keep going. That'll give you a close idea of your max that you can then base your training ranges on.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
@prosopis
I agree 100% with Ned, particularly about just collecting the data at first.
A few other points:
Don't let a number on your watch override how you feel and what your body is telling you. It sounds like you were running at the right pace and didn't need to slow down.
Something is wrong with those Garmin zones. If 143 felt "excruciatingly slow" it was not in your "threshold" zone which should be at least somewhat uncomfortable. But, don't worry about this now. Zones will become clearer in time.
Do you upload your runs to Garmin Connect? If so, you can set them up to automatically transfer to Strava. Ned links to our Strava page in the first post of this thread. Most of us are on Strava. We will be able to see all your runs and your data. That allows us to give you more informed advice. Also, you will be able to views our runs to get an idea how others use heart rate training. To be sure, it's a mixed bag. What's an "easy" heart rate number for some of us is much different than others. Still, I think there is value in seeing how zones work for others and you'll probably end up being very similar to a few of us.
I agree 100% with Ned, particularly about just collecting the data at first.
A few other points:
Don't let a number on your watch override how you feel and what your body is telling you. It sounds like you were running at the right pace and didn't need to slow down.
Something is wrong with those Garmin zones. If 143 felt "excruciatingly slow" it was not in your "threshold" zone which should be at least somewhat uncomfortable. But, don't worry about this now. Zones will become clearer in time.
Do you upload your runs to Garmin Connect? If so, you can set them up to automatically transfer to Strava. Ned links to our Strava page in the first post of this thread. Most of us are on Strava. We will be able to see all your runs and your data. That allows us to give you more informed advice. Also, you will be able to views our runs to get an idea how others use heart rate training. To be sure, it's a mixed bag. What's an "easy" heart rate number for some of us is much different than others. Still, I think there is value in seeing how zones work for others and you'll probably end up being very similar to a few of us.
FUBAR
Footballguy
the bold is a very good point I missed. Frankly, you probably don't know your true zones. Most of us don't really unless we've been using HR training for a long time. Getting your max is a good place to start and that gives you a set of ranges to work with but there's disagreement even among the experts. Two things we all agree on is the age methods are inaccurate, but different methods work for different people. Two of our most popular methods are Friel (seems more useful for the experienced runner) and MAF (which is the most basic useful technique IMO and doesn't require finding your max first). MAF might be too slow for you as it would put your target HR at 130 (+- 5 depending on experience). And there's been some discussion lately about adjusting MAF for "mature" runners.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Prosopis - welcome back! Dude you're old!
To be honest, we are all just guessing on what you should be running. Basing it on your resting HR (do you really know your true resting HR? It's when you first wake up in bed not just sitting around), or using some generic calculation is just asking to be wrong.
I'd recommend running in that very comfortable range you've found and just collect the data. If you're running and feeling gassed after 3 miles, you're running way too hard for an every day type of aerobic run. You should have that 'I can go forever' feeling or feel like you have more in you when you finish.
After you've collected the data for a few months, you'll be able to see a trend starting to form. It's a much safer way of learning your body. IIRC, your frustrations from the last time was expecting HR training to be a magic bullet. Be super patient - it took me forever to get my arms around it and am still learning today. Ask @Hang 10 how long it took him to 'get it'.
Or you can go race a few 5Ks and hammer the snot out of the last mile to the point you'd rather curl up and die than keep going. That'll give you a close idea of your max that you can then base your training ranges on.
This.
Yeah, it took me a good 6-8 months until I really started to understand my zones. It was incredibly frustrating at first because I underestimated my heart rate by about 10 beats. I've found that heart rate reserve is much more accurate for me than just percentage of max. My main take away of heart rate training is saving yourself for your key workouts. Keep your easy runs easy and if you do, you'll have an extra bounce in your step for your paced runs. Stick with it though, it's definitely worth while.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
Yeah, I have actually hit 195 before, but I'm guessing it may be a few beats faster than that.tri-man 47 said:
For this training cycle, I have really just been running by feel. I have definitely run a lot more of the faster miles this time around, which is how I used to train before I started into the HR training.
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Nigel
Footballguy
Today's 20 had me wondering why I do this. Weather was great, everything else sucked hard. Don't think I was hydrated enough and foolishly added a coulple of miles to my first loop so I didn't get back to my truck/Gatorade until 11.5. I think it was too late, I was thirsty the rest of the run. Had to wait in a long line at a Dunkin Donuts to buy a drink at 15. ####ty planning overall. Ball of my right foot was on fire the entire run. Ankle was ok but I felt like I had to #####foot around the whole run to avoid aggravating it. Not much swelling or stiffness afterwards so that's a positive. Iced it then took a two hour nap.
Ok, done complaining...glad it's over with.
Ok, done complaining...glad it's over with.
FUBAR
Footballguy
Was there nothing else available?Today's 20 had me wondering why I do this. Weather was great, everything else sucked hard. Don't think I was hydrated enough and foolishly added a coulple of miles to my first loop so I didn't get back to my truck/Gatorade until 11.5. I think it was too late, I was thirsty the rest of the run. Had to wait in a long line at a Dunkin Donuts to buy a drink at 15. ####ty planning overall. Ball of my right foot was on fire the entire run. Ankle was ok but I felt like I had to #####foot around the whole run to avoid aggravating it. Not much swelling or stiffness afterwards so that's a positive. Iced it then took a two hour nap.
Ok, done complaining...glad it's over with.
I'm sure the other customers love having you there.
ChiefD
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
You had me at "today's 20 ..."Today's 20 had me wondering why I do this. Weather was great, everything else sucked hard. Don't think I was hydrated enough and foolishly added a coulple of miles to my first loop so I didn't get back to my truck/Gatorade until 11.5. I think it was too late, I was thirsty the rest of the run. Had to wait in a long line at a Dunkin Donuts to buy a drink at 15. ####ty planning overall. Ball of my right foot was on fire the entire run. Ankle was ok but I felt like I had to #####foot around the whole run to avoid aggravating it. Not much swelling or stiffness afterwards so that's a positive. Iced it then took a two hour nap.
Ok, done complaining...glad it's over with.
But I understand. I slogged through 17 today with 3 porta potty stops for an active tummy plus a train delay. Sometimes it's miles for the sake of miles. What's with the ball of the right foot, though? Adjusting the stride because of the ankle? And the two hour nap might be an indication that you were fundamentally in need of more rest.
pbm107
Footballguy
Considering I had to cut short two workouts this week, I am very happy with my fitness level. I am 26 sec/mile more efficient than I was at this point last year and running similar mileage. The only bad news is that training over the next two weeks is going to be difficult as I have agreed to work some extra hours to close out some things at my current job. I don't know if I will be able to meet my aggressive BSR goal or keep up with Juxt, but I like how I was able to carry over a lot of the fitness from the Fall training cycle.
Date Miles HR Pace
Feb-16 261.17 140 7:59
Jan-16 251.9 140 8:11
Dec-15 150.03 142 8:11
Nov-15 197.51 139 7:46
Oct-15 342.32 137 8:00
Sep-15 269.23 140 8:03
Aug-15 300.41 137 8:10
Jul-15 260.92 141 8:08
Jun-15 240.8 141 8:15
May-15 133.34 149 8:03
Apr-15 147.58 145 7:59
Mar-15 270.96 137 8:18
Feb-15 263.78 140 8:25
Jan-15 267.04 136 8:42
Date Miles HR Pace
Feb-16 261.17 140 7:59
Jan-16 251.9 140 8:11
Dec-15 150.03 142 8:11
Nov-15 197.51 139 7:46
Oct-15 342.32 137 8:00
Sep-15 269.23 140 8:03
Aug-15 300.41 137 8:10
Jul-15 260.92 141 8:08
Jun-15 240.8 141 8:15
May-15 133.34 149 8:03
Apr-15 147.58 145 7:59
Mar-15 270.96 137 8:18
Feb-15 263.78 140 8:25
Jan-15 267.04 136 8:42
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
I did an 8 mile aerobic run today. I worked hard to stay in my HR zone and it was none to easy. With an avg pace of 14:37 I was really questioning why I am doing this. I am going to listen to advice given here and stay the course. I have also linked to Strava and appreciate any and all advice from that stuff. I am not sure I even understand everything in there such as run cadence.
I did an 8 mile hike yesterday through some desert mountains. I am happy with 16 miles on my feet in two days.
I did an 8 mile hike yesterday through some desert mountains. I am happy with 16 miles on my feet in two days.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Dang, pbm, those are some serious miles ...and improvement! A recover week for me, of sorts. A bit of calm before a 5 week training storm to follow. My version of March Madness.
M: 700m swim
T: 10 miles w/ 8 miles hill tempo (8:10/mi). Went to the Arboretum with mrs. tri and decided to push hard up/down the hills.
W/Th: Upper and lower body work
F: 8 miles on track w/ 5 miles hard tempo (7:10/mi, HR 161). I blame MAC.
S: 17 miles, kind of junky
S: 5 miles easy
40 miles. So yeah, now it's "all in" through the month of March.
M: 700m swim
T: 10 miles w/ 8 miles hill tempo (8:10/mi). Went to the Arboretum with mrs. tri and decided to push hard up/down the hills.
W/Th: Upper and lower body work
F: 8 miles on track w/ 5 miles hard tempo (7:10/mi, HR 161). I blame MAC.
S: 17 miles, kind of junky
S: 5 miles easy
40 miles. So yeah, now it's "all in" through the month of March.
MAC_32
Footballguy
So this has been some two weeks. I was pretty friggin stoked after course pr'ing by 10+ minutes, but if anything the last two weeks have been better.
M 2/15 - 4 recovery miles @ 9 min pace w/30 mins strength training in the middle
T 2/16 - 2 uphill, 1 in unshoveled muck, 2 back down - a lot of snow and ice. Net was about 8 min mile pace. Wasn't strenuous.
W 2/17 - 30 mins strength training
R 2/18 - 6 miles, too fast tempo. 4 miles @ 6:15.
F 2/19 - 30 mins strength training
S 2/20 - 12 trail miles @ 9 min pace. Given the terrain and this weeks schedule, this was a real eye opening run. My legs were tired towards the end, but my cardio was still great.
U 2/21 - 7 recovery miles, 6 @ 9 minute pace, one in the middle was a walk/jog with a friend I ran into in the park.
M 2/22 - same as last Monday
T 2/23 - I felt like this was going to be a good one the day before, but I had no idea I'd so easily complete 13 @ 7:22. Legs were getting tired the last mile or so, but again - cardio felt like it could have gone another half hour.
W 2/24 - Rest
R 2/25 - 30 mins strength training
F 2/26 - same route/effort as T 2/16 but no snow/ice meant a much faster pace - 7:22.
S 2/27 - 5 recovery miles @ 9 minute pace w/30 strength training mins in the middle.
U 2/28 - 8 w/5.5 at "tempo." I held tempo pace much better this time, but I let things a little loose the last mile and a half - 6:52/6:47/6:24/6:24/6:03/probably 5:30 (half mile). Maybe 6:30something is my tempo pace though?
Taking it easy the next three days. If I'm up for something tough Thursday I will, but if may be an easy five days. I really want a good 14-15 Saturday as I set my sights on a 5 miler Sat 3/12.
M 2/15 - 4 recovery miles @ 9 min pace w/30 mins strength training in the middle
T 2/16 - 2 uphill, 1 in unshoveled muck, 2 back down - a lot of snow and ice. Net was about 8 min mile pace. Wasn't strenuous.
W 2/17 - 30 mins strength training
R 2/18 - 6 miles, too fast tempo. 4 miles @ 6:15.
F 2/19 - 30 mins strength training
S 2/20 - 12 trail miles @ 9 min pace. Given the terrain and this weeks schedule, this was a real eye opening run. My legs were tired towards the end, but my cardio was still great.
U 2/21 - 7 recovery miles, 6 @ 9 minute pace, one in the middle was a walk/jog with a friend I ran into in the park.
M 2/22 - same as last Monday
T 2/23 - I felt like this was going to be a good one the day before, but I had no idea I'd so easily complete 13 @ 7:22. Legs were getting tired the last mile or so, but again - cardio felt like it could have gone another half hour.
W 2/24 - Rest
R 2/25 - 30 mins strength training
F 2/26 - same route/effort as T 2/16 but no snow/ice meant a much faster pace - 7:22.
S 2/27 - 5 recovery miles @ 9 minute pace w/30 strength training mins in the middle.
U 2/28 - 8 w/5.5 at "tempo." I held tempo pace much better this time, but I let things a little loose the last mile and a half - 6:52/6:47/6:24/6:24/6:03/probably 5:30 (half mile). Maybe 6:30something is my tempo pace though?
Taking it easy the next three days. If I'm up for something tough Thursday I will, but if may be an easy five days. I really want a good 14-15 Saturday as I set my sights on a 5 miler Sat 3/12.
