Zasada
Footballguy
You didn't hit your paces but it was still a good, productive workout. You pushed yourself and (if I can believe what the experts say), that's what drives improvement.
You'll crush it on the next one.
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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (15 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
You'll crush it on the next one.
The Iguana
Footballguy
I was feeling this way a bit last night but I ended up wrapping a little bit of a silver lining around it.
First, I have been umping some little league baseball and having a blast but all of the games I have been scheduled behind the plate had been rained out. Wednesday night I finally got to do one for a 9/10 YO game. Lots of pitches thrown over the 1:45 that lasted so I conservatively estimate that I did 250+ air squats back there. Also took one pretty good shot off my left thigh that smarted a bit.
So, last night I went out with an initial plan of doing a 10K at about what I want my HM pace to be coming up. Got a decent warm up/stretch in. Then took about a 1/4 mile to work up to pace and was feeling pretty good. But it was 80+ degrees out there. By the end of 5k or so, I was huffing and puffing way too hard and my HR was up a little too. So, I dialed it back a little and started doing sprints uphill (neighborhood I was in has several small hills). So, I'd cruise, then push it for a 1/10th or so, then rest, then do it again. Did that for about 2 miles. Averaged what I want my MP to be and really felt easy. Then the last 1.2 miles +/-, I picked it back up and did those at about an 8 min/mile pace and that felt really good - part of it is that I had a gentle downslope most of the way back.
So, the bad part was that 1:39 pace didn't particularly feel good. But it was 80+ degrees so... And the good news is that after doing 5K+ at a 7:30 pace, averaging less than 8:30/mile for the each of the 3 felt like I was just jogging along more or less.
ChiefD
Footballguy
@The Iguana - what is coming down the pipe in terms of weekly mileage for your training plan. So far I see a lot of 5 and 6 miles runs followed by a long run on the weekend.
Does your plan start adding 8 - 10 mile runs during the week? If not, my concern is those 5 and 6 milers may be luring you into a false sense of security. The only reason I ask is I see a lot of the same parallels in your training as when I did my first couple of marathons.
Just curious.
Does your plan start adding 8 - 10 mile runs during the week? If not, my concern is those 5 and 6 milers may be luring you into a false sense of security. The only reason I ask is I see a lot of the same parallels in your training as when I did my first couple of marathons.
Just curious.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Your body is capable of more than what your mind wants to do. Embrace the suck. Attack the discomfort. Not hitting the marks in a speed workout is normal. Just do as much as you can that day. You do that then the next one will go better. You still may not hit your marks next time, but by pushing your maximum thresh holds it'll extend them next time.
Good job DBAP'ing, so next time don't let yourself stop and walk when it gets hard - press on and get to the finish line as fast as you can, no matter the actual time.
The Iguana
Footballguy
Funny you should ask. I was thinking about that last night after my run and also looking over my upcoming schedule. I have mostly been focused recently on 2 things - 1) trying to push the pace on my 5/6 milers a little bit. I want the long runs at around MP to feel easy so I've been working on running the shorter runs a little harder than that pace. 2) Pushing the long runs to go really long early to get a feel for what they are like.
So, with that idea in mind, this week I've mostly just been trying to get myself prepared for the first 20+ miler ever for me - that's tomorrow morning!
After doing that, I'm definitely interested in trying to extend some of the week day runs, just have to try to make them fit in with regular life. Either going to work on doing more evening running and just going a little longer. Or I might start doing some 2 a days - do a morning run of 3 to 5 and then a 5-6 mile run in the evening. Just depends on what I can make work.
That said, the next 3 weeks will be "interesting" to fit in. Next weekend will be one of golf, beer, cornhole, and fantasy football drafts. Weekend after that will be labor day and hopefully a couple days in a row of decently long runs. Then the weekend after that I will be in Vegas, purely for fun and not sure how much running I will get in then but hopefully more than none!
MAC_32
Footballguy
Speaking from experience, I don't think the 2-a-days will accomplish what you want them to. I tried them because I didn't want to make time for a 10-11 miler during the week and it was a mistake.
TripleThreat
Footballguy
You walked for 10-15 second and finished the last set in 6:25, 20 sec off goal. I'd say you were pretty FCKN close.
The Iguana
Footballguy
Might be right. I'm not totally sold on the idea.
I actually feel pretty good about where I am right now. Given how the 18 miler a couple of weeks ago felt to start and the strong finish, I'm feeling pretty optimistic. But not everything has gone exactly the way I wanted. Right now I just really want to get out for 20+ tomorrow and see how everything goes. If I can do it all with miles in the 8:45 to 9 minute range and not completely die, then I'll be pretty happy.
ChiefD
Footballguy
This part worries me a bit. But it only worries me because I have lived this experience almost exactly.
And the one thing I learned for sure is: the marathon is a commitment. Now, I understand that life gets in the way and things happen, but the marathon training cannot be an after-thought. You have to get your runs in. And they need to be quality.
This last cycle the marathon was my priority. I told my wife that at the beginning, and I missed some dinners. And some sports practices.
Now trust me - I'm not saying forgo family life and things you really want to do. With my first two marathons, I let a lot of extraneous activities get in my way, and I paid for it on race day.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
Just to expand on it - I think 2-a-days have a place, but not as a substitute for a medium long run. It's either a dual recovery or part 2 is a recovery from a workout earlier in the day.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Similar concerns danced in my head when I read it. Reminded me of what I was doing from late July-early Sep in front of an Oct marathon 3 years ago. One weekend was a golf outing, another was a long weekend down south, I tried to play catch-up afterwards then entered into the dark place of over training, then another golf outing, right before finishing my summer the same place Iguana is finishing his - Vegas.This part worries me a bit. But it only worries me because I have lived this experience almost exactly.
And the one thing I learned for sure is: the marathon is a commitment. Now, I understand that life gets in the way and things happen, but the marathon training cannot be an after-thought. You have to get your runs in. And they need to be quality.
This last cycle the marathon was my priority. I told my wife that at the beginning, and I missed some dinners. And some sports practices.
Not trust me - I'm not saying forgo family life and things you really want to do. With my first two marathons, I let a lot of extraneous activities get in my way, and I paid for it on race day.
I was in a great spot mid-July that year (16:27 5K!
), but decisions over those 6 weeks played a big role in the crash-and-burn that was that race.
The Iguana
Footballguy
The only part I'm really worried about is the Vegas week. Next week, I should get several good runs in Monday-Thursday, then I just have to move my long run to Sunday - will also likely get up and do something Saturday morning.This part worries me a bit. But it only worries me because I have lived this experience almost exactly.
Labor Day week should be good - will do normal runs during the week then should get solid runs on Saturday and Sunday - will even include some real hills since I'll be at the cabin.
After that, I will need some discipline. Drive home Monday and have a football draft Monday night with some yahoos. I should be able to get a run in between getting home and the draft. Should get a 5 or 6 miler Tuesday and then plan to try to do 8 or 10 Wednesday morning before getting on a plane for Vegas. After that, we will see. Thursday and Friday morning I have every ability to get in a run if I just do it. Saturday, Sunday, Monday... ummm... yeah.
The Iguana
Footballguy
But then I have 1 month until the October HM and then a month until the full...
The Iguana
Footballguy
and how bad can a 1 week setback really be?
ChiefD
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
And not to be another party pooper @The Iguana, but you haven't had a run slower than 8:50 pace in a while. There are no recovery runs. No easy runs. You're running 5x/week and are probably about to start increasing volume even more. You're doing long runs and then you're finishing them off with 5-6 mile tempo runs.
Along with the red flags @ChiefD and @MAC_32 are telling you, this worries me a bit even without ever having trained for a marathon.
ETA -- Also of note: Your previous 4 week totals are 19, 30, 41, 33. You're only at 16 right now for this week. You have 1 more month until your HM, 10 days, then taper. That lack of volume could be a problem as well. Not trying to start putting any kind of negative thoughts or doubt, but I think these next 4 weeks are going to be crucial for you.
Along with the red flags @ChiefD and @MAC_32 are telling you, this worries me a bit even without ever having trained for a marathon.
ETA -- Also of note: Your previous 4 week totals are 19, 30, 41, 33. You're only at 16 right now for this week. You have 1 more month until your HM, 10 days, then taper. That lack of volume could be a problem as well. Not trying to start putting any kind of negative thoughts or doubt, but I think these next 4 weeks are going to be crucial for you.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Without knowing your schedule and maybe see what the other guys think, but I think you either need to start running those 2 other days of the week REALLY slowly instead of taking full rest days. This will get you the volume while letting you recover from the hard workouts. Or you need to increase the lengths of these other runs like they said and slow down for at least 1 of them.
MAC_32
Footballguy
This is where I think those mid-week medium long runs are so important. They make you tired. They force you to recovery run around it. Then they make you run the weekend long run tired. It's all cumulative. By not doing those you can end up with a lot of no-man's land runs during the week. I'm not tired, so I can run faster!
Yes, but.
Yes, but you need to change things to make yourself tired. It seems counter productive, but at this point in training you should be slowing down; not speeding up.
EDIT: it took until my second full cycle for me to understand the above, despite those in here telling me otherwise. Mentally I struggle telling myself to run slower. So I had to wear myself out so I couldn't run any faster than slow, on slow run days anyway.
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The Iguana
Footballguy
This week will be 40+. About to go do about 5, with plan to be relatively easy - means probably about a 9:30 pace ish, then 20+ tomorrow.gianmarco said:
There isn't a plan for a real taper before the HM - I'll do my best to go a little easier during the week but the HM is as much part of the full marathon training as anything. I plan to run it hard, but I'm not tapering before it. While I have a goal there, it isn't the main goal.
And, I have started pushing some to the runs lately because I wanted to make my legs tired. I almost posted something the other day that I thought I should be feeling more of that but haven't. Then this week happened. Both Tuesday and Thursday my legs have finally started to really feel it during the runs more than at other times.
Also note, that while I'm only running 5 days a week, the 2 days "off" aren't fully days off. Sundays I generally take my dog on a good 4 or 5+ mile walk - it's a brisk walk other than when I'm throwing the frisbee and he's running all out, then a short slow walk while he recovers. It's kind of "recovery run-esque" but even slower. The other day off is almost always a day in the gym lifting/stretching/etc, I just haven't been recording that on strava. It also often involves a long dog walk as well.
The Iguana
Footballguy
And for the record, I appreciate all the help. I don't always follow directions but I do read, listen, and take all the info into account. I do my best to adjust to the advice as best that I can.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Well, this is what spurred me to check your running this morning. You have been way too giddy.
You need to be pissed off and angry and tired of the grind, THEN get giddy when the temps improve. GET OUT THERE AND GRIND YOU FOOL!!!!
The Iguana
Footballguy
Well, this is what spurred me to check your running this morning. You have been way too giddy.
You need to be pissed off and angry and tired of the grind, THEN get giddy when the temps improve. GET OUT THERE AND GRIND YOU FOOL!!!!
There's a lot of bonus adrenaline of doing things I've never done before, IMO. There are times it's not entirely pleasant out there but at the end there's a ton of endorphins or something and I'm all grins and giggles, IMO!
Zasada
Footballguy
I know your worry is more about time than location, but speaking from experience, running on the strip SUCKS. Too many people, too many intersections. If you can find the time to get an Uber out to the Clark County Wetlands Park, there are lots of paved trails in there which are great to run on.The Iguana said:
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Yup. I've been dealing with this already ..in a positive way. I'm constantly fretting about how I'll get my miles for the week and when I'll add SOS. I hate it. I love it.
So yeah, 10 yesterday, 12 this morning, and plans for 22 tomorrow.
Run Far; DBAP ...
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I'm not sure what do with my watch's elevation problems. On virtually every run it has me dropping a few hundred feet a few miles into the run. It doesn't matter which direction I go in. And, no, it's not too hilly here. Modest elevation changes of about 20 or 30 feet would be accurate.
I thought the problem might be catching GPS just outside my front door like I routinely do. However, the elevation (about 700 ft.) is correct then. It is later (and, again, not in the same spot) when it gets goofy. I even stopped and restarted my watch about a mile away this morning but it did the same thing.
I'm stumped.
I thought the problem might be catching GPS just outside my front door like I routinely do. However, the elevation (about 700 ft.) is correct then. It is later (and, again, not in the same spot) when it gets goofy. I even stopped and restarted my watch about a mile away this morning but it did the same thing.
I'm stumped.
MAC_32
Footballguy
And if you can't make the time to get out there then the not-at-all scenic neighborhood east of the strip offers enough cement to get the job done. UNLV is also over there, so throwing that in the middle may be enough to prevent boring yourself to death with the exact same scenery over-and-over again.
gianmarco
Footballguy
pbm107
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
Yeah I've heard some amazing stories about how they keep their customers happy. One of the reasons I felt OK dropping $500 (ugh) on a watch.
pbm107
Footballguy
@JuxtatarotI just talked to a coworker about this and he showed garmin how badly his watched performed (in elevation) on track and they replaced his watch. Your last track workout might do the trick.
ChiefD
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
I have a buddy whose watch records a non-existent mountain every time he runs in his neighborhood...
The Iguana
Footballguy
That would be fun and I'd consider it but odds are far better if I just decide to run on/near the strip. But crowds will definitely not be the problem for me. This is an annual trip that I am going on and have done several times and I know that having room to run won't be a problem. I'm flying in Wednesday, most of the rest won't be there til Thursday. I did that on purpose because I'm more of a poker fan than most going. I'll spend Wednesday afternoon and night playing poker - and will involve minimal frivolity (i.e. drinks) that night that would stop me from running Thursday. I'd imagine I'll end up in bed about 2 or 3 am Vegas time, which is about 5 or 6 my time. I won't sleep more than about 3 or 4 hours so I'll be up by 7 am Vegas time. There is almost literally nobody on the strip at that time of the morning and traffic is minimal. Usually I've gone out on both Thursday and Friday morning for a nice walk and to find a place for a decent breakfast - it's amazing how you can forget to eat while in that crazy city. I really won't have any excuse not to run Thursday morning. Same thing will happen Thursday night into Friday other than it's guaranteed I'll have more drinks Thursday night than Friday.
Rinse and repeat until I drag my sleep deprived self to the airport Monday morning and crash on the plane for the flight home.
ETA - the 3 hour time difference and a lack of ability to truly "sleep in" means I am always up before most of the city when I'm out there.
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The Iguana
Footballguy
I'm hoping to actually do 22 tomorrow, want to come run with me?Yup. I've been dealing with this already ..in a positive way. I'm constantly fretting about how I'll get my miles for the week and when I'll add SOS. I hate it. I love it.
So yeah, 10 yesterday, 12 this morning, and plans for 22 tomorrow.
The Iguana
Footballguy
I wish my watch would mess up the elevation so it would look like I did a hill once in a while. Maybe there would be an osmosis like effect on my performance.
The Iguana
Footballguy
Oh and I just finished up what felt like a nice easy run. Kept my HR under 140 other than at the very, very end. It was still 9 min/miles but after all the harder stuff I've done recently, it felt like cake out there - I could have done that all day long, imo, and felt like it would be easy.
And to be honest, that's part of the reason I have been doing a lot of mile pushing the pace up higher... I need 8:30 min/miles to feel easy by November, IMO.
And to be honest, that's part of the reason I have been doing a lot of mile pushing the pace up higher... I need 8:30 min/miles to feel easy by November, IMO.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
Question re strains/injuries.
My right glute continues to hurt on runs and through the day when I'm sitting at the office. It's been this way since a couple weeks before my marathon in May. It really only seems to impede my performance on the longer runs though (and was the biggest problem on my marathon after 30K). I managed to run my 20K at a PR pace on Wed but it was clear that if I ran longer, my glute would be the reason for me to slow or have to quit.
It's not painful enough to cause a limp. Is limping the measure I should be using for what constitutes an injury versus just soreness?
I keep running with it because of a fear of losing fitness (and losing the gains I have made over the last few months). But I also worry that it's not really getting any better.
My right glute continues to hurt on runs and through the day when I'm sitting at the office. It's been this way since a couple weeks before my marathon in May. It really only seems to impede my performance on the longer runs though (and was the biggest problem on my marathon after 30K). I managed to run my 20K at a PR pace on Wed but it was clear that if I ran longer, my glute would be the reason for me to slow or have to quit.
It's not painful enough to cause a limp. Is limping the measure I should be using for what constitutes an injury versus just soreness?
I keep running with it because of a fear of losing fitness (and losing the gains I have made over the last few months). But I also worry that it's not really getting any better.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Called Garmin. We did a system reset and they asked me to clean the back of the watch really well. If it still happens over the weekend, they will replace the watch.
Thanks for the input, everyone.
Thanks for the input, everyone.
gianmarco
Footballguy
I'd consider getting a massage or formal stretching spot and see how that goes. Also search this thread for piriformis trouble and stretching. Wouldn't be surprised if that's your issue.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
My running doctor would say "Let's try physical therapy 2 to 3 times a week for 4 weeks and come back and see me."
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Zasada
Footballguy
Thanks. Never had a professional massage in my life. Do I need to go to some kind of athletic masseuse? Or just any old massage outfit?
gianmarco
Footballguy
Most any massage place would be fine. When you call, just tell them your situation. You can get a massage everywhere but just ask them to focus there first. Prepare to cry.
The Iguana
Footballguy
I think this is the hardest part about this whole running thing. As a guy that started many pounds overweight and with a number of aches and pains to start with, trying to determine the difference between pain and injury is tough. I've documented in here twice that I had enough pain that I thought it was injury like and took a week or more off trying to let it heal. It kind of worked both times but the pain came back pretty quickly - once in my hip and once in my heel. Then I did more research and found stretches to target both areas and the improvement in pain was almost immediate.
Calling off work because you just hurt sucks. But pushing through pain and creating an actual injury is worse. My wife is a nurse so, I try to consult her some and I use a lot of Dr. Google to try to figure out what is going on. That said, part of being 48 (almost 49) and playing the part of weekend warrior for most of my life, a certain amount of pain is always going to be part of this game for me, I think. I still deal with some occasional hip soreness and my feet hurt more often than not at least part of the day until I can roll them out and such. But luckily other than a sprained ankle that I had to baby when I first got started last year, I haven't actually had a serious injury yet.
The Iguana
Footballguy
oops
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
I do! ...but it won't work to drive down to Indy for it. It'll be kinda cool, though, to know we're both out there slogging through a long run in the morning. Theoretically, our side-contest should be to see who can run it the slowest!
