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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
The Iguana
Footballguy
Holy cow... that's some race report you just bumped! I'm not sure if I'm happy or bummed that you bumped it. Wow.
bushdocda
Footballguy
I want this from santa
Massage Gun Deep Tissue Percussion Muscle Massager for Pain Relief, Handheld Electric Body Massager Sports Drill Portable Super Quiet Brushless Motor, opove G3 Pro https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TVCF86M/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_JUw6Db66TA2N2
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The Iguana
Footballguy
My runs this week have felt pretty good, having signed up for the 14 miler in this, this HM again, and knowing that I will sign up for this full marathon again once registration opens, I'm really pretty stoked about what all is coming up in 2020. Kind of had a bit of a lull after running the monumental last month but but those runs and that race report has me pretty amped up right now.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Brony
Footballguy
The Iguana
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
Those 10 MP Fri 11/22 leave me with no doubts you'll sustain through 20. I am curious about the lack of volume at that point, but I am cautiously optimistic given the success others have experienced using the Hanson full plan that tops out at 16 - I'm not convinced the half plan will have a much different effect. Plus your own experience to grind late despite being on fumes - was that Richmond last year or sometime prior?
ChiefD
Footballguy
pbm107
Footballguy
Thanks I am thinking pretty much the same as you. I am in decent shape but this is the first marathon where I feel unprepared for the distance. The good thing is that the first 13-16 miles should feel fairly easy and my target pace is my slowest since 2013.
I had a strong finish last year at Richmond but I was in better shape then with more mileage.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
My two are #62 and #64 on the list.
Speaking of #64, I got my corral assignment today. Really don't know what I should do with this race. I love going to Houston and I loved the race last year (suffering aside).
Just like all of you enablers in this thread, @Ned's RR linked above got me excited for Houston and now I'm probably back on the >50% chance of actually running this race, despite my glute issues. I was probably <30% just three weeks ago. Ugh. You guys suck. And rule. At the same time.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
bushdocda
Footballguy
Reading Ned’s report and some older posts after was just what the doctor ordered. Feeling mental and physical blah this week and full of doubt. Off tomorrow so it’s just a shakeout and get me to start line. Last workout feels like forever ago (day before thanksgiving) and a couple easy runs with strides helped but I still have more tinkering to do with the taper in the future. I love the training cycle I’ve had and this year has been marked with a lot of good miles. I am ready to take the start line and meet the marathon challenge. I am grateful to be healthy and in a position to empty the tank Saturday. I have my results goals for the race (to come), paramount is to enjoy the day and weekend.
Got a lot to be bullish about: better base, good cycle, goal pace runs were solid, smaller race should mean I run closer to 26.2 than other 2 marathons, flat, cold weather, dope shoes.
Plan to take first 2 miles slower by ~30-45 seconds and work into goal pace and then roll 8:0x mile after mile, roll in control and see what’s left in last 5k.
Pace bands ready for A and B
A - 3:31
x
B - < 3:35
C - < 3:38 (pr 3:44:59 last year)
Got a lot to be bullish about: better base, good cycle, goal pace runs were solid, smaller race should mean I run closer to 26.2 than other 2 marathons, flat, cold weather, dope shoes.
Plan to take first 2 miles slower by ~30-45 seconds and work into goal pace and then roll 8:0x mile after mile, roll in control and see what’s left in last 5k.
Pace bands ready for A and B
A - 3:31
xB - < 3:35
C - < 3:38 (pr 3:44:59 last year)
pbm107
Footballguy
Leave your plan B pace band at home. I may take the first 2 miles slower as well, but more like 10-15 seconds slower than goal pace.Plan to take first 2 miles slower by ~30-45 seconds and work into goal pace and then roll 8:0x mile after mile, roll in control and see what’s left in last 5k.
Pace bands ready for A and B
A - 3:31
B - < 3:35
C - < 3:38 (pr 3:44:59 last year)
bushdocda
Footballguy
I am so used to sleep walking my first couple miles I want to account for it.
Weather looking a tad warmer and a tad less windy.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Saturday morning going to be busy:
Good luck @-OZ-, @pbm107, and @bushdocda
You guys need to get some. In case you forgot, RF;DBAP.
We need tracking info as well......
Good luck @-OZ-, @pbm107, and @bushdocda
You guys need to get some. In case you forgot, RF;DBAP.
We need tracking info as well......
-OZ-
Footballguy
https://track.rtrt.me/e/STJUDE2019#/tracker/RYP5CZMW
30107
Goals:
A. Finish
B. Run consistent, don't bonk. Failing that, get over it and man up
C. 3:30
pbm107
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
@pbm107 @bushdocda - Go kick some ### tomorrow. Will be 
for you from Newark.
@-OZ- - GLGB! 100% confidence you'll kill it.
for you from Newark.@-OZ- - GLGB! 100% confidence you'll kill it.
TripleThreat
Footballguy
C R U S H S O U L S
tri-man 47
Footballguy
!!!!!
ChiefD
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
I knew it was going to be a good run last night when I opened the question mark and saw blue.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Yeah, you destroyed that run. Can't wait to see how your BQ attempt goes.
Btw, just curious, what's your height and weight now? Where are looking to be?
MAC_32
Footballguy
6'1 - I went to do my monthly weigh-in yesterday, but apparently someone busted the scale after Thanksgiving
softball
. I'd be surprised if I'm much different than the 185 I was entering the half, but I guess that will weight til next week to find out. Hoping to sustain that into January then trim up a few more before the real training begins sometime in February.
-OZ-
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
So, this may seem like a dumb question and not even sure if it can be answered, but during my run yesterday, I was just thinking of various things, so here goes.
I've never run more than a HM distance.
If I were to attempt to run a marathon today, and let's say I went out at a 10:00 pace (not a "racing pace"), what's going to be my biggest challenge in getting it done?
I mean, assuming at that pace, my HR would be in the 145-150 range, at least through 10ish miles, because I have that info already. Where/when/what things would go wrong? Assuming I'm taking fuel in as I go (even though I've obviously never practiced it for that long of a run).
Does my HR start to go much higher even at that pace after a while? When might that be? Do my legs start to tire/cramp too much since I've never approached that distance? Something else?
I've never run more than a HM distance.
If I were to attempt to run a marathon today, and let's say I went out at a 10:00 pace (not a "racing pace"), what's going to be my biggest challenge in getting it done?
I mean, assuming at that pace, my HR would be in the 145-150 range, at least through 10ish miles, because I have that info already. Where/when/what things would go wrong? Assuming I'm taking fuel in as I go (even though I've obviously never practiced it for that long of a run).
Does my HR start to go much higher even at that pace after a while? When might that be? Do my legs start to tire/cramp too much since I've never approached that distance? Something else?
ChiefD
Footballguy
Zasada
Footballguy
I ran my first 30K nine days after running my first HM. Both were the longest distances I had run at that time. The 30K was quite slow intentionally, as I was unsure of things just like you are. And it wasn't a big deal. Yeah, I was tired after, but it's not like I had to walk any of it. Did have one mid-run break to poop, though.
Following that first 30K, over the following weeks I did a few more at a faster pace. The longest of those was 32K (20mi), and by the end I could tell things were different around the 30-32K point.
And then we all know how my first Marathon went, with the wheels falling off at 32K. The challenge >32K was mostly muscle fatigue and a little cardio.
Then I did a ton more training, ran my second marathon, at a slower pace for the first 32K, and still had a hellish time for that last 10K. I didn't have to walk, but I'm no @The Iguana, so it took every ounce of effort I had to keep any kind of running pace.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think no matter how slow you run, you're not going to know what it's like above 30K until you do it. Getting to 30K, at least for me, was an entirely different universe than beyond 30K. It might as well have been two different races: One 30K that was a nice leisurely jog, followed by another where all the fatigue and suffering of the world was heaped on me for 10K and I just wanted to die (sorry for the dramatic hyperbole but it was really bad for me).
I'm with @ChiefD on this. You've got way more natural talent than me. But don't short yourself on training. And I would do at least one 20-miler to just get a feel for it. If you can get to 20 without hitting the wall, that informs you for race day.
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ChiefD
Footballguy
Yeah, this is the funny part about the whole equation and building up to it. The first two marathons I ran there were a couple 20 milers in the plan. But I am so slow those runs took a lot out of me because I was out there so damn long. (almost 4 hours for me!)
And then this last cycle, the longest I ran was 16 miles during training. But I'll be damned - on race day I felt good and strong that last 7-8 miles. So for me, the daily running (only one day off a week), was the secret. The Hanson plan worked for me - and it was great for the family because on long run days I wasn't gone all that long.
But at @gianmarco's pace and HR, he may be able to crank out at least one 20 miler that won't completely wipe him. And it would be good to get one under his belt sometime in early spring. Maybe even before his training cycle officially starts.
gianmarco
Footballguy
But, that's kind of what I was looking for. I'm doing the training, that's not why I was asking. But since I don't have a specific time goal and just want to finish this thing (trying to run the whole thing), I want to know what I should expect given that mindset.
I've still got a few months until I hit the plan and until then will keep just putting in miles as best I can. I do want to get at least one longer run (14-15 miles) before my March HM.
Considering my non-love for long distances, I'm trying to figure out what I need to work on/focus on more. The physical aspect or the mental. And it seems like it's going to be both. Yay??
It's all good, I'm going to get this thing done. Just the reality of the distance was starting to hit me yesterday as I was finishing my 90 minute run.
ChiefD
Footballguy
The physical will help you with the mental. If you don't have the training to back up the mental fatigue, positive thinking will only get you so far.
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bushdocda
Footballguy
Hard to say which is a good reason to build to longer long runs before your cycle starts. You will be slower than HM pace by a good bit so recovery will be much quicker. You body head to toe will benefit from exposure to the stress. That will help you to build on the pace and execute on the training workouts and have confidence on the long runs during the cycle.
Zasada
Footballguy
For my first 30K it was very de-stressing to have zero expectations. I told myself that I was going to run very slow, and just see how it went. No biggie if I had to turn back earlier than planned, or if I had to walk some. I didn't tell anyone I was doing it. I was on the road for work. In a new place (Amsterdam) at sea level. So worst case, it was nice to run through a forest in Holland and if I only rank 20K nobody would have known/cared that I was actually aiming for 30K.
And then because things were so casual mentally, my HR stayed in a great spot the whole run and I got it done. If only I could be like that during a race!
So maybe just pick a 18-20mi route that you can cut short (if necessary) and give it a whirl over the next few months? With no expectations? Just as a test.
gruecd
Footballguy
gruecd
Footballguy
Just catching up with the torture tool conversation. I have one of these, and it works pretty well. I also get a monthly deep tissue massage and use a lacrosse ball for my piriformis and a foam rollover for my ITB as needed.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Thanks, that helps.
See, I also know how I am. I like 5K races because I can suffer for 25 minutes and be done. I can do that. Racing the 15K and suffering for over an hour was miserable. I'm not going to do well with 4 hours of suffering. So I want to learn how to get to the end where I'm only dying for that last 10K and a little of what to expect.
I like the idea of trying to get one really long run in before the cycle. I wasn't planning on that so that's definitely something I want to entertain.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
My guess is you'd run through your glycogen too quickly, your heart rate would start climbing, and you'd bonk. I suspect that would happen before cramping or leg tiring. Maybe you'd make about 18 miles.
That said, if you stick with that Higdon plan, I think you'll have a successful first marathon.
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tri-man 47
Footballguy
A few thoughts:
- First of all, it's not 4 hours of suffering. With a reasonable degree of training, the first half (or more) of a marathon is really not a big deal. For MCM, for example, I ended up with a running buddy and we spent miles 10-16 just cruising along and getting acquainted with short snippets of conversation. The "suffering" occurs over the final miles, whether that be the final 10, or 2, or 1. It can be a slow sink into the gloom or a sudden bonk and death march.
- The suffering can be either physical, as the legs just aren't strong enough to keep pushing, or mental, as the mind just gets fatigued over four hours, or both. You can address the mental aspect with pre-race, deliberate planning. I've found that the mind gets into a fog over the final miles, and you can't - on the fly - decide "oh, I'm feeling bad, so I'll switch to positive thoughts now." So plan your tricks in advance to overcome that ...shadow on other runners and let them pull you along ..run from landmark to landmark (next traffic light or light post; or count down the remaining number of turns) ..talk to volunteers to get out of your funk/shell ..have the mantra(s) ready.
- As to the training and long runs, I'm aware of current thinking that says long runs should max out at 2 1/2 hours, which is less than 20 miles. The idea is that running beyond 2 1/2 hours doesn't benefit the body and risks damaging the body and/or limiting ongoing training. I choose to do long runs (21-23 miles), but I also targeted a number of the 17-18 milers that were around 2 1/2 hours. So if you peak out at 2 1/2 hours, the science seems to be behind you.
- But then, how to prepare for the final miles? I'd argue it's leg strength - adductors, abductors, quads, glutes, hammies. I intend to research this more before my next marathon cycle. The slower pace late in the race is either shorter stride or slower rotation. Leg strength can help to counter this, I believe. So build the leg strength, and incorporate a fair share of hill work (easy for your neighborhoods!) and/or interval and tempo work.
TL
R - quality, not quantity.
Zasada
Footballguy
For the Calgary marathon, my Dad and his wife were at the 30K point to cheer me on and then met me at the finish. My Dad commented to my wife that I looked like an entirely different human being between the two points. At 30K I was smiling and waving and it looked like the race was no big deal. Then at the finish I was delirious and off-balance, and looked like I'd been hit by a truck.
So, it's really only one hour of suffering. If that helps you at all.
Also, when I ran my 30Ks in training, there was very little suffering. Only the last couple Ks, if any.
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gruecd
Footballguy
@gianmarco - Trust me, the "suffering" you feel in the last 10K of a marathon is nothing like the suffering you felt during that 15K. This is dead legs suffering, not "I feel like my heart is going to explode out of my chest" suffering. Marathon suffering is much less miserable IMHO.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
Listen to the other guys as they know a whole lot more than me and are running much faster than me. I think I've done 3-4 15+ mile runs now with one that was 20 (and it's being generous calling that one a run for the full distance). It was all leg muscle failure and leg fatigue for me. I have 4 kids and a wife at home so I'm used to mental anguish - being in the woods trying to run isn't mentally exhausting - I did question my sanity and why I was pushing farther than I should but it wasn't "hard". My legs just stopped working - I just couldn't make them run any further. My heart rate was a non-issue.
One thing I will point out about the mental aspect. I typically do an out and back on my runs, especially my long runs. There's a certain mental boost of knowing I have 6 miles back to my car. If I was running past my car it would be a lot easier to just say screw it and stop.
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gruecd
Footballguy
Also, I just ate a cookie from Jimmy John's that contained almost as many calories as my sandwich.
xulf
Footballguy
I dont know...doing 80 laps around the track with your car sitting right outside the gate sounds pretty amazing.
xulf
Footballguy
Better make it 14 miles tomorrow.Also, I just ate a cookie from Jimmy John's that contained almost as many calories as my sandwich.
