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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
ChiefD
Footballguy
That’s all fine and dandy but how were the poops this morning?
bushdocda
Footballguy
Your man on the ground here in Richmond, Heading back out to look for our guy around 22. Last 6 miles of HM are on marathon course. The support will be good, a couple bumps up and down, maybe some additional shade from buildings but a lot of straight on sun. Downhill kicks in and then really kicks in so it’s going to be hard af on race effort spent legs I think.
Zasada
Footballguy
First off don’t be scared, based on your half PR and your training sub 3:25 is a lock with decent race day conditions if you just continue what you’re doing and then taper.2.2x my HM time puts me smack at BQ cutoff (3:25). Which would be a 30+ minute PR for me.
I'm scared.
Almost all of my running this year has been easy (which was also true before my HM time, so at least it's apples-to-apples). Anyone have an 8-week "slow plodder to BQ" marathon plan???
I don’t know what adjustments would work best for you going forward, but if I were in your position I’d try to maintain the volume you’re currently putting in and add a tempo effort in each week anywhere from 4-7 miles at HM PR pace. I’d try to get 2-3 20 milers in as well.
Thanks, definitely going to try to maintain the volume. Converting one of my ~8-mile weekday runs to HM pace and 20-milers on Saturdays is definitely doable.
Had a good run today. Great temps, and wore my fast shoes. Ran MP-30 for 17 miles and felt good. Only planned on MP-5 but found myself settling-in at a faster pace.
Temps in the 30s just feel like magic. Fingers crossed for race day.
Zasada
Footballguy
Signed-up for Houston. Hotel booked. Going to try to BQ. Bought the magic shoes (last year's model, $100 off, but still $180, ugh).
I had more-or-less decided to not run street marathons anymore (since I hate them so much), but the stars are aligning: Not injured. Best fitness ever. I can qualify in the age 50 category (for 2024 Boston), despite still being 49 at the time of my qualifying race.
2.2x my HM time puts me smack at BQ cutoff (3:25). Which would be a 30+ minute PR for me.
I'm scared.
Almost all of my running this year has been easy (which was also true before my HM time, so at least it's apples-to-apples). Anyone have an 8-week "slow plodder to BQ" marathon plan???
No advice on the plan, but you are in phenomenal shape. Looking forward to seeing what you can do out there
And, 8 weeks away you say...is it supposed to be in the 60s and windy?
Yeah if that's the race day conditions, I'm ****ed. Here's hoping for the temps I got back in 2019 in Houston: 34F at gun time. :fingers crossed:
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
Nice work Richmond guys.
@bushdocda went out and ran a smart half marathon as he continues his training for his marathon.
@pbm107 had a tough day, and we have all had those. Of course, his tough day would be dream for just about all of us. Keep your head up and I hope the ankle heals quickly.
Can't wait for a race report from you guys at some point.
@bushdocda went out and ran a smart half marathon as he continues his training for his marathon.
@pbm107 had a tough day, and we have all had those. Of course, his tough day would be dream for just about all of us. Keep your head up and I hope the ankle heals quickly.
Can't wait for a race report from you guys at some point.
Zasada
Footballguy
Yeah was really bummed to see @pbm107 couldn't have the day he deserved.
@bushdocda just lad-di-da-ing a killer HM bodes well for his full. Looking forward to hearing about it!
MAC_32
Footballguy
This seems like a good spot to share a relatively positive update on my end as there appears to be a disappointing report on the horizon. I'm just glad to read pbm (hopefully) dodged an injury.
I just completed my first week over 40 miles in 14 months capped off by my first run over 11 miles since last October's marathon disaster. This isn't intended as a complaint, but I could have gone faster too. I'm not cold weather acclimated yet so I over dressed (tights) instead of wearing shorts and long socks as I usually do when temps are in the 30's. I fast finished, but that was primarily caused by the off-and-on light sleet throughout the run that turned heavy over the last 20 minutes. I saw the dark clouds coming in over the lake and while it was too late I wanted as little to do with that as I could!
This is now 9 weeks in a row over 30 miles. More importantly, I've done so successfully navigating my various ailments. Neither my calves nor back are 100%, but I've been able to figure out a routine to operate with both at around 90% give or take and a short enough recovery time. We'll see what mother nature has to say as our first snow is coming down now, but if we get a decent weekend day and the surface is good enough I'll race something before year's end.
I just completed my first week over 40 miles in 14 months capped off by my first run over 11 miles since last October's marathon disaster. This isn't intended as a complaint, but I could have gone faster too. I'm not cold weather acclimated yet so I over dressed (tights) instead of wearing shorts and long socks as I usually do when temps are in the 30's. I fast finished, but that was primarily caused by the off-and-on light sleet throughout the run that turned heavy over the last 20 minutes. I saw the dark clouds coming in over the lake and while it was too late I wanted as little to do with that as I could!
This is now 9 weeks in a row over 30 miles. More importantly, I've done so successfully navigating my various ailments. Neither my calves nor back are 100%, but I've been able to figure out a routine to operate with both at around 90% give or take and a short enough recovery time. We'll see what mother nature has to say as our first snow is coming down now, but if we get a decent weekend day and the surface is good enough I'll race something before year's end.
bushdocda
Footballguy
Quick Richmond recap- thankful for @pbm107 letting me hitch on to the crew, lots of fun hanging and re-fueling after a warm race.
I drove down on Friday through some storms and needed the expo for my bib as i switched to the half and had my marathon bib mailed to me. Pickup is at Richmond Raceway on the inside of the racetrack so that’s a new one. Downpours and tornado watch had people huddled under the grandstands for about 30 mins and luckily it didn’t get too bad. Needed to walk a tunnel to the infield that was now under a couple inches of water at spots. Got my bib and outta there.
Dinner the night before was fun and smooth and the air cooled a tad walking back giving some optimism for lower humidity. Morning came and it was warm as projected and it took a toll on folks.
I was looking for about 6 or 7 MP miles and maybe a few more after the race so I was probably the most chill person in town. Came to a park loop around halfway point and decided to go after the next water stop so I could douse myself first. Got going a bit faster than MP but decided to stay there and have a bit of time at a HR that would be like the second half of a marathon.
The course finishes on an extended and increasingly steep downhill to the river that felt like I was in the old FBG fastest mile. I was glad not to be pounding that on marathon weary legs. Finish, banana, massage from George (NTTAWWT), switched gear at hotel and headed out to spectate. Went in a couple miles looking for pbm but no luck. I have grown to really love race spectating. Hope I lifted a couple folks who were struggling to get to the downhill finish.
Group gathered slowly post race with various challenges from the hot day. It was a far cry from the Indy conditions of 2 years ago, the drinks and fellowship were flowing nicely nonetheless. We celebrated a first marathon and toasted to future marathons and race days.
I drove down on Friday through some storms and needed the expo for my bib as i switched to the half and had my marathon bib mailed to me. Pickup is at Richmond Raceway on the inside of the racetrack so that’s a new one. Downpours and tornado watch had people huddled under the grandstands for about 30 mins and luckily it didn’t get too bad. Needed to walk a tunnel to the infield that was now under a couple inches of water at spots. Got my bib and outta there.
Dinner the night before was fun and smooth and the air cooled a tad walking back giving some optimism for lower humidity. Morning came and it was warm as projected and it took a toll on folks.
I was looking for about 6 or 7 MP miles and maybe a few more after the race so I was probably the most chill person in town. Came to a park loop around halfway point and decided to go after the next water stop so I could douse myself first. Got going a bit faster than MP but decided to stay there and have a bit of time at a HR that would be like the second half of a marathon.
The course finishes on an extended and increasingly steep downhill to the river that felt like I was in the old FBG fastest mile. I was glad not to be pounding that on marathon weary legs. Finish, banana, massage from George (NTTAWWT), switched gear at hotel and headed out to spectate. Went in a couple miles looking for pbm but no luck. I have grown to really love race spectating. Hope I lifted a couple folks who were struggling to get to the downhill finish.
Group gathered slowly post race with various challenges from the hot day. It was a far cry from the Indy conditions of 2 years ago, the drinks and fellowship were flowing nicely nonetheless. We celebrated a first marathon and toasted to future marathons and race days.
gruecd
Footballguy
This is where you and I disagree a bit. I think one 20-miler is plenty. Maaaaaaybe two. They just take so much out of you that I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
I think 20 milers do more for people mentally than physically. I'd argue an 18 miler with the last 4 miles at a pace a bit faster than MP will do more than a slow 20 miler.
pbm107
Footballguy
I can see that, like everything in running it depends. For the way I run my 20 milers, they don't really take too much out of me but I typically run them slower.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
For both the physical and mental aspects, that's why I like to push out to 21-23 miles on a couple of training runs. With those, time-on-feet at a slow pace isn't too far off the full marathon at race pace.
gruecd
Footballguy
Yeah, neither is the recovery time…
JShare87
Footballguy
I’ve thought about the 20 mile training run debate and see both sides. I’ll say, for my first two marathons, I think they were extremely important for the reasons mentioned. They give you somewhat of an idea what you’re going to deal with on race day. But now, I’m more in agreement with @gruecd Not sure the juice is worth the squeeze for experienced runners. Especially someone like me with all my issues. A 20-miler would leave me unable to walk for a few days.
MAC_32
Footballguy
It's all about the recovery. For me, the first real long one in the cycle requires several days to get right again on the other side, but that's also seemed like a good time to hit the reset button before the trek towards peak. My follow up's in the 19-21 mile range don't require nearly as much recovery time as the first one - I even fast finished one in the last cycle and was doing 800 repeats 3 days later. For those that don't recover as quickly a different approach is optimal.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
I guess this means none of us can use the "I wasn't in optimal shape when I ran my race" excuse.
ChiefD
Footballguy
I can.
ChiefD
Footballguy
That guy is my spirit animal.
Zasada
Footballguy
20-milers don't take much out of me, at least at the pace I run them. I did one a couple of weeks ago and ran another 10 miles the day after. Did I feel spry after? No. But I also wasn't hobbled.
As with most people, the problem for me isn't the first 20 miles. It's the last 6. I'm not sure how I prepare for that, except to just fuel right (been thinking about this), and just try to beat through the problem with fitness.
Zasada
Footballguy
Fueling.
Perhaps this is placebo. But on my ultras, drinking caffeinated Tailwind really seemed to keep me fueled and energized. How do I do this on a marathon? A half cup of water at water stations isn't going to be enough. Do I just run with a handheld? Have my wife meet me on the course with a bottle?
Perhaps this is placebo. But on my ultras, drinking caffeinated Tailwind really seemed to keep me fueled and energized. How do I do this on a marathon? A half cup of water at water stations isn't going to be enough. Do I just run with a handheld? Have my wife meet me on the course with a bottle?
ChiefD
Footballguy
Yes. For my last marathon I had 16oz of Tailwind with me. I took a long drink at every aid station. I also ate a couple of chews at each mile marker until I just didn’t want it anymore. About mile 15 if I remember. I then dumped my water bottle and belt with my wife at mile 20 ish.
Worked great for me. But I was also diligent with the Hansen training plan also. But I 100% believe that the combo of those two things helped me run that strong marathon.
To me, you don’t need the 20 miler. What you need between now and then is more for the other guys in this thread.
xulf
Footballguy
gianmarco
Footballguy
I know a couple others here are believers of this (@MAC_32 , for one), but one of the better ways to simulate this is to run those long runs on tired legs. The "Higdon weekend" is running an SOS workout on Saturday (tempo, intervals, whatever) to get the legs tired and then run long on Sunday. Since your legs aren't starting out fresh, it's basically simulating the last part of the marathon, not the first part. You also don't need to do 20 miles on the long run to accomplish this. Run a tiring workout on Saturday then run 16 on Sunday. And if you aren't feeling fatigue after the first 10-12 miles, then pick up the pace for the last 4-6 miles.
This can get you what you need without the draining effort of multiple really long runs.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Get really hungover and run a 10k race the next day.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Start practicing now to see what works and what doesn't. I'd avoid carrying any extra weight if at all possible, but I would if not doing so would be detrimental to my race.
gianmarco
Footballguy
And one other thing @Zasada ....
Your volume is already pretty substantial. But, if you start to add some quality (SOS, speed, tempo, intervals, etc), make sure you don't also increase your volume. If anything, back off just a bit so you can really get something out of the workouts you do.
You're consistently in the 65ish mpw range. You just had 2 slightly higher mileages the last couple weeks. I'd consider backing down to 55-60 if you do 1-2 SOS runs per week. You have an incredible base at this point. Work your anaerobic system these next few weeks.
But if you start doing those workouts AND increase volume, then that's a recipe to struggle and/or get injured and not get the most out of that quality.
My $.02 from a retired marathon runner.
Your volume is already pretty substantial. But, if you start to add some quality (SOS, speed, tempo, intervals, etc), make sure you don't also increase your volume. If anything, back off just a bit so you can really get something out of the workouts you do.
You're consistently in the 65ish mpw range. You just had 2 slightly higher mileages the last couple weeks. I'd consider backing down to 55-60 if you do 1-2 SOS runs per week. You have an incredible base at this point. Work your anaerobic system these next few weeks.
But if you start doing those workouts AND increase volume, then that's a recipe to struggle and/or get injured and not get the most out of that quality.
My $.02 from a retired marathon runner.
bushdocda
Footballguy
Yep you need to tailor your ultra approach to a shorter faster race. A little caffeine and soon cookies, we can work with that.
This is something to practice a bit. I hate handhelds but don’t mind a couple little bottles hooked on my waist band or in good compression pockets.
More fuel the week prior, more fuel the night before and a plan to execute on raceday will give you the most ‘coverage’ if your stomach turns mid race. And the strategic timed use of caffeine gels or a handoff bottle (Mrs Z = Kipchoges hero Claus) is a great idea IMO.
Zasada
Footballguy
Yeah I have no interest in more volume right now. I'm at my max. Which is why I have been doing very little speed work this year. My legs are just doing their best to keep up with the volume.
My goal would be to change one of my weekday 8-milers to a MP-[x] run, and perhaps extend 2-3 of my Saturday 17-milers to 20 miles. All while maintaining my volume. But not growing it. That seems to be the general theme of the suggestions (which I really appreciate!).
Also in the mix will be some trails. Like this weekend.
Zasada
Footballguy
Yeah I hate handhelds and waist bottles (jostling/sloshing around). I think my preferred approach would be the Kipchoge one. Will see if I can figure out the logistics of that.
MAC_32
Footballguy
As disastrous as last year's marathon was and my overall lack of adequate mental prep there was one key variable I nailed. We crossed the same point in the course at miles 7, 12, and 16 so I had my wife handoff 1/2 honey jam sammys on each pass. I chose the spot because on the mile 7 and 16 passes there was a water stop about 90 seconds after, so I only needed to carry the sammy for any length of time going one direction. Doesn't help your specific situation (different race), but just something to chew on, pun unintended.
Dark Matter
Footballguy
The long awaited Ironman Arizona is this Sunday. It's taper week and probably for the best as my 58 yo body needs a break from all the training I've been up to especially the last 3 months. This will be my first IM as I was supposed to do IM California last year but it was cancelled due to a "cyclone bomb," (that was a good call). I have had a great year of training and feel very confident going into the event, especially the swim. I have made great progress in that discipline even tho I'm still super slow compared to most triathletes.
There will be 3500 of my new friends toeing the line in Arizona and I just hope to be one of them crossing the finish line to hear Mike Reilly call me an Ironman. It will be his last IM called on US soil so that will make it that much more special. My wife completed IMAZ in 2013 and she has been the best sherpa/lifegueard/caddy a guy could ever have. Anyone that endeavors an Ironman needs a pretty solid support system and I know I would never be close to getting this done without her backing me 1000%. She is volunteering at the finish line later in the evening with the hope that she gets to put the medal around my neck. We have friends and family coming into town for the event and it should be a big ol' party in Tempe. I mean what else are they going to do while I'm out there on the course?! They don't do bib numbers until check in so here is the IM tracker app link below. Thank you ALL for your support and inspiration and BMF-ery that has kept me going this past 2 years!! Cheers Ya'll!!
Tracking Joe Wags the IRONMAN® Arizona. Check it out!
https://rtrt.me/ulink/IRMA/IRM-ARIZONA-2022/tracker/RY37JFCG/focus
There will be 3500 of my new friends toeing the line in Arizona and I just hope to be one of them crossing the finish line to hear Mike Reilly call me an Ironman. It will be his last IM called on US soil so that will make it that much more special. My wife completed IMAZ in 2013 and she has been the best sherpa/lifegueard/caddy a guy could ever have. Anyone that endeavors an Ironman needs a pretty solid support system and I know I would never be close to getting this done without her backing me 1000%. She is volunteering at the finish line later in the evening with the hope that she gets to put the medal around my neck. We have friends and family coming into town for the event and it should be a big ol' party in Tempe. I mean what else are they going to do while I'm out there on the course?! They don't do bib numbers until check in so here is the IM tracker app link below. Thank you ALL for your support and inspiration and BMF-ery that has kept me going this past 2 years!! Cheers Ya'll!!Tracking Joe Wags the IRONMAN® Arizona. Check it out!
https://rtrt.me/ulink/IRMA/IRM-ARIZONA-2022/tracker/RY37JFCG/focus
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-OZ-
Footballguy
Get some!The long awaited Ironman Arizona is this Sunday. It's taper week and probably for the best as my 58 yo body needs a break from all the training I've been up to especially the last 3 months. This will be my first IM as I was supposed to do IM California last year but it was cancelled due to a "cyclone bomb," (that was a good call). I have had a great year of training and feel very confident going into the event, especially the swim. I have made great progress in that discipline even tho I'm still super slow compared to most triathletes.
Tracking Joe Wagner in the IRONMAN® Arizona. Check it out!
https://rtrt.me/ulink/IRMA/IRM-ARIZONA-2022/tracker/RY37JFCG/focus
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Can't wait to hear how it goes, @Dark Matter !!! Be patient with the day, and take what the course gives ya.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
pbm107
Footballguy
It's feeling fine, thanks for asking. Just being lazy this week, I might try to get out when I get home from work. I am not sure what caused the ankle pain during the race, I did roll my ankle about 6 weeks ago, but I felt like I got over that quickly. Perhaps since the Alphaflys are less stable than my trainers it may have exposed a weakness in the ankle. The bright side is that my legs feel great as I didn't stress them because of the ankle discomfort.
bushdocda
Footballguy
Morning race fans. 10am ESPNU will have the college cross country championships on. Most years it’s been really good coverage of both women’s and men’s races.
Shouts to the paceboss @SteelCurtain heading out in Philly tomorrow.
I’ll be testing out a banged up pinky toe this morning that I blasted off a dumbbell on Thursday night (while stretching not lifting). Other toes feeling better so I needed another one to **** with me.
Happy weekend all.
Shouts to the paceboss @SteelCurtain heading out in Philly tomorrow.
I’ll be testing out a banged up pinky toe this morning that I blasted off a dumbbell on Thursday night (while stretching not lifting). Other toes feeling better so I needed another one to **** with me.
Happy weekend all.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
I wasn’t able to watch, but I followed closely online. My protégée, Ashley, and I have been very aware of the time needed to qualify for nationals (D III) and are committed to getting her there next fall (along with setting a new school record). My accounting student at powerhouse North Central came in 29th overall in the men’s race. He actually led his team …first time he’s done that (in his final collegiate race). The team, however, came in with a disappointing 7th when their goal was top 3.
bushdocda
Footballguy
The races were very different and good watches.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
Crossed the 1K mile threshold for the year this week. Did a bit of a time trial for Saturday's Turkey Trot 5k and the results were underwhelming. I'm definitely not in as good a shape as I was last year when I brain farted the race. That being said, I refuse to fun run the thing, so the goal is to enter the pain cave and see how things shake out.
SteelCurtain
Footballguy
Anyone running a turkey trot this year?
I'm heading to Pittsburgh to see my sister and her family. Found a pretty big race on Thanksgiving morning that starts and ends near Heinz Field and PNC Park. I went to register and it was $55 for a 5K. Seems steep to me.
Since I just ran Philadelphia Marathon on Sunday, I can't race it anyway. I decided it wasn't worth the cash. My son will race it and I'll be a spectator. I'll do a warmup and cool down with him and watch the actual race.
I'm heading to Pittsburgh to see my sister and her family. Found a pretty big race on Thanksgiving morning that starts and ends near Heinz Field and PNC Park. I went to register and it was $55 for a 5K. Seems steep to me.
Since I just ran Philadelphia Marathon on Sunday, I can't race it anyway. I decided it wasn't worth the cash. My son will race it and I'll be a spectator. I'll do a warmup and cool down with him and watch the actual race.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
No more racing this year for me. As posted on Strava today, on my 8 mile run I had an average cadence of 179 ..really happy to bring that below 180. My focus now (as it should have been throughout 2022) is to improve my stride. I feel I can improve my marathon pacing with a better, longer stride. Can I knock 5-10 seconds/mile off my marathon pacing? The work on that started two weeks ago, and will continue through 2023. I'm supplementing my moderate-length runs with strength work ...primarily squats and lunges, which were a hallmark of mine many years back, but I got away from that. No longer ...back to basics.
And: Just a few weeks until we start our 13th annual year-end reports!!! I'll post a template in mid-December.
And: Just a few weeks until we start our 13th annual year-end reports!!! I'll post a template in mid-December.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
My 5K is Thursday.
Training has seemed to stagnate this month. I think I’m on the slower end of the range I was hoping for but still within that range. But we’ll see. I might surprise myself.
Flat course. There will be plenty of fast (and faster) runners for competition. Temps in the high 30s. 7 mph wind that I’ll get for the first half.
Training has seemed to stagnate this month. I think I’m on the slower end of the range I was hoping for but still within that range. But we’ll see. I might surprise myself.
Flat course. There will be plenty of fast (and faster) runners for competition. Temps in the high 30s. 7 mph wind that I’ll get for the first half.
xulf
Footballguy
I was supposed to do the Hot Chocolate 5k with my 10 yr old and 8 yr old this past Sunday - pacing my 10 yr old. Windchill was 4, so we passed as the girls hadn't really trained and were most interested in the post race treats.
Thought about signing up for a 4 miler on Thursday, but I haven't done any speed training, and quite frankly I am not ready to go back to the pain cave for any period of time.
Good luck to everyone running though
Thought about signing up for a 4 miler on Thursday, but I haven't done any speed training, and quite frankly I am not ready to go back to the pain cave for any period of time.
Good luck to everyone running though
-OZ-
Footballguy
I’ma wuss, so taking it easy getting back into the pool and zwift.
Started a challenge a few days ago, started with 10 pull-ups each morning (ostensibly when I first wake up but that hasn’t been consistent), add 1 each day until my arms fall off. Goal is to make it to January 1.
Started a challenge a few days ago, started with 10 pull-ups each morning (ostensibly when I first wake up but that hasn’t been consistent), add 1 each day until my arms fall off. Goal is to make it to January 1.
bushdocda
Footballguy
Ya boy will be known as bib 169 on Saturday morning going off at 830est. It’s a small race so not sure how tracking will be, it says you can sign up for tracking here at link below. Weather looks brisk in the upper 30s with some rain on Friday and perhaps some leftover wind. Will be interested to see how the trail conditions are with puddles and ruts, normally it’s a nonissue.
Did I bridge my fitness from Berlin, not sure. The workouts didn’t have as pointy a tip to them but they were good and the longer runs were present but not noteworthy quality. I didn’t burn out and have come around to feeling pretty good. I’ll have local logistics, a restful week with an extended focus on fuel and hydration prep. I’ve got my pace plan loaded on the watch and a race pacers data field running in the background and a paper sheet for the pocket. It’s an out and back so I shouldn’t get lost.
Set your phasers to full send.
runsignup.com
Did I bridge my fitness from Berlin, not sure. The workouts didn’t have as pointy a tip to them but they were good and the longer runs were present but not noteworthy quality. I didn’t burn out and have come around to feeling pretty good. I’ll have local logistics, a restful week with an extended focus on fuel and hydration prep. I’ve got my pace plan loaded on the watch and a race pacers data field running in the background and a paper sheet for the pocket. It’s an out and back so I shouldn’t get lost.
Set your phasers to full send.
NCR Marathon & Half Marathon
The NCR Marathon & Half Marathon is on Saturday November 29, 2025. It includes the following events: NCR Marathon and NCR Half Marathon.
runsignup.com
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