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Ran a 10k - Official Thread (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ned
- Start date
beer 30
Footballguy
Seems right up @BassNBrew alley. Every time I see him post on Strava it makes me wonder what kind of ****ed up race he's prepping for on short to no training. The Barkley would have been epic.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Yes, still planning to do a qualifier for Boston 26. My early leaning is the Grand Rapids Marathon on October 20. It's a favorable course, and I can stay at my sister's place. This would give me about 2 1/2 weeks of additional training here after yesterday's "long run." A couple of my best marathons have come shortly after tough efforts (2011 Big Sur, thirteen days after a hard Boston; and then the 2013 Fox Valley, three weeks after a bonk in No. Wisconsin). The GRM is one I've run before and it's very flat (flatter than Fox Valley, actually).
If GRM doesn't work out, I would probably shoot for the BQ2 in the spring, although that would mean another marathon prep cycle.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
I used pretty much the exact same reasoning to sign up for my local HM several years back. I actually now quite like winter running. I think getting out in the elements makes one appreciate the seasons more. Depending on how intense you plan on being it can be a bit of a drag because there will be days that are really inhospitable, like 38F and a steady rain all day. But if you have some schedule flexibility (or a treadmill) to avoid those really crappy days, it can be a nice way to make the winter go faster. It's so satisfying to go out for a nice hard effort on a really cold day and then come inside, take a hot shower and relax on the couch under a blanket.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
I think this makes the most sense as you clearly have the fitness to easily BQ, and it seems unlikely that you would get hit with the weather whammy again.
Also, gives the 10K crew two BMFs to cheer that day, as I'm pretty sure that's xulf's race day.
Zasada
Footballguy
6:51 cutoff, @SteelCurtain you're in!
bushdocda
Footballguy
tri-man 47
Footballguy
6:51 is just crazy. I feel so bad for so many that ran great races and now it’s all for naught.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
SteveC with a PB 2:19 and a top 100 finish at the Berlin Marathon!!!
The Iguana
Footballguy
Tonight was fun. I've been going downtown once a week for runs. Tonight was the first time in a long, long time that I did what used to be a very regular run for me. It's a little over a 5 mile route that includes doing the full canal. An easy-ish pace used to be about 2 minutes/mile faster than what I did to tonight and my HR was a little high still to call this "easy" but it is starting to be easier and I'm starting to like it/look forward to running rather than having to force myself to get out there
The Iguana
Footballguy
Also despite my HR still being considerably higher than it "should be", I'm doing my best to run all this "low and slow". I'm trying to build up relatively slowly to be able to relatively comfortably run about 20-30 miles a week. I did ~10 miles week 1, ~13.1 last week and plan to do about 16 to 17 this week.
So far I'm doing just 3 days a week (Monday, Wednesday, Saturday), while trying to do some core strength weight training a couple days a week. Will add a 4th day in the near future. @gianmarco would also be proud-ish. I'm trying to keep these miles as slow as I can until I can get my HR down. I could/should probably still go a little slower than I am now but this is about as slow as I can go and still enjoy this. Average HR has already dropped about 10 BPM with distance increasing from ~3 miles/run to ~5 miles/run. And the pace has stayed the same (~10:30/mile +/-).
So far I'm doing just 3 days a week (Monday, Wednesday, Saturday), while trying to do some core strength weight training a couple days a week. Will add a 4th day in the near future. @gianmarco would also be proud-ish. I'm trying to keep these miles as slow as I can until I can get my HR down. I could/should probably still go a little slower than I am now but this is about as slow as I can go and still enjoy this. Average HR has already dropped about 10 BPM with distance increasing from ~3 miles/run to ~5 miles/run. And the pace has stayed the same (~10:30/mile +/-).
ChiefD
Footballguy
So, went out running this morning and decided to do some exploring and run this ATV trail that connects a couple three bars up here. So I’m thinking this is about a mile or so, so I’m about a half mile in and all if a sudden I see some water pooled up in the middle of the sandy road.
I’m thinking to myself….”what the fu….it hasn’t rained in a month. No streams nearby or water sources”. So i get closer, and I see some boot marks on the ground around the puddle.
Suddenly it occurred to me I wasn’t the only one out there.
Some guy probably sitting in his deer stand thinking “what is the world of fuuuuuuucks is THAT”
I’m thinking to myself….”what the fu….it hasn’t rained in a month. No streams nearby or water sources”. So i get closer, and I see some boot marks on the ground around the puddle.
Suddenly it occurred to me I wasn’t the only one out there.
Some guy probably sitting in his deer stand thinking “what is the world of fuuuuuuucks is THAT”
The Iguana
Footballguy
Just saw you in my feed then came here and saw you posted... I was certain I was about to read about a farmer's market.So, went out running this morning and decided to do some exploring and run this ATV trail that connects a couple three bars up here. So I’m thinking this is about a mile or so, so I’m about a half mile in and all if a sudden I see some water pooled up in the middle of the sandy road.
I’m thinking to myself….”what the fu….it hasn’t rained in a month. No streams nearby or water sources”. So i get closer, and I see some boot marks on the ground around the puddle.
Suddenly it occurred to me I wasn’t the only one out there.
Some guy probably sitting in his deer stand thinking “what is the world of fuuuuuuucks is THAT”
Zasada
Footballguy
I'm not sure if Race Reports are still a thing here, but for the three of you still in this thread, here goes.
My First 5K
...well, it's my first officially timed 5K race.
Preamble
I'm finally starting to get a good volume going again, although my ankle has good days and bad days. My knee will also grumble from time-to-time, but both aren't bad enough to force any days off (right now). So I've logged 3 consecutive 100K+ weeks, and been feeling good generally.
I have an upcoming 50K that I have been (in theory) training for, but it's mostly on the calendar just to grab a couple more lottery tickets for UTMB.
A month or two ago, someone at work mentions that DFW airport is hosting a 5K on one of its runways, and I thought it would be fun to go out there and do a runway race. Always wanted to try that. So I signed-up (so did my wife).
Well, as race day approaches, I'm still pushing volume for my overall fitness and kind of ignoring the 5K. I figured I wasn't in PR shape (unofficial 20:22), and would just go out and fun run it with my wife. I logged about 120K (78 miles) in the 7 days preceding the 5K, and even the morning of the race I went out and ran my usual 13K (8 mile) route to continue building volume. A little progression at the end, but nothing serious. I hadn't run 5K pace since the FBG 5K during COVID.
I shower after my morning run, change into a different set of running gear, and put on my fast shoes (Saucony Endorphin Speed) "just in case".
It's about a 2K walk to the start of the race, and I down a Mountain Dew en route. We get there, snap some photos, and before I know it, they're counting-down to the start. AGH I don't have my camera stashed, my playlist setup, or my watch GPS locked. So I step off to the side, and get all that going while a huge number of runners cross the start line. I didn't want to cross the timing mat to start until I was ready. Took a minute or so to get all that together, fired up a random playlist, and got running.
DFW 5K on the Runway - First 1K
In the moment, the Mountain Dew high kicks-in and I figure I'll run "fast" for the first 1K and see what split that results in. And then probably slow down from there. So I'm bobbing-and-weaving through all the people who started before me. Definitely don't feel like I'm running at a pace for a 20-minute 5K, but the fast shoes always add a bit, as does the Mountain Dew.
First 1K split hits and reads through on my headphones: 3:55 (6:19/mi).
Oh. Well, that's interesting. Maybe I'll try to hold this pace for another kilometer and then I'm sure I'll have to slow down. But this crowd is really starting to thin out -- it looks like I only have ~20 people in front of me. Honestly, I'm feeling a little /flex being so close to the leaders. Hmmm.
2K
3:55 again. Ummm, really? I'm working hard and feeling really punished, but I'm surprised I managed to put two sub-4:00 KMs together. And I'm still passing people. I hit the first turnaround at one end of the runway, and horribly turn really wide, but whatever.
OK let's stick with this pace and fight through the pain, and I'm sure I'll run out of gas and slow down in a bit. See how things go.
3K
3:55 again. I pass my wife going the other direction, and she's cheering me on. Best I can muster is a pathetic semi-hand-wave to acknowledge the cheering and that I saw her. But I'm fully in suffer mode. I keep the pace up deep into 3K and start to approach the second turnaround. But the mental math starts. Can I get through ~1.5K more at this pace? I have 15 seconds buffer from 4:00/km now, even if I fade a little, I have a shot at my long-dreamed sub-20 5K...
Hit the second turnaround, big wide turn again (ugh), but two things happen at this point. One to challenge me, and another to motivate me:
4K
3:59.
The challenge is that I'm slapped with a headwind all of a sudden. "WTF?", I thought to myself -- "I was running with a tailwind for the last ~2K???". It wasn't fierce by any means, but just the difference was a little demoralizing. That I was keeping those paces with a smidge of help, and now that has turned into a smidge of harm.
The motivator was the big difference-maker. At the point of the turnaround, the finish was more than a kilometer away, but I could see it. I knew it was a ways away, but seeing it helped so much. I just need to keep this pace until I get there.
Then, as I always do when my HR gets high, I start to feel barfy. Oh great. I'm going to have to stop to barf. Wait a minute: Stopping to barf is a quality excuse to end this pain. But "thankfully" it subsides.
And all I have to do is run one more K at a 4-ish pace to hit my long-dreamed sub-20 5K. "BUCK THE **** UP, YOU *****!", I'm telling myself. You now haven't come this far just to miss this goal in the final moments.
I turn a little bit of fade into some extra oomph, and as the finish line inevitably approaches, resign myself to barfing at the finish and push. I hit a 3:40/km (5:53/mi) pace in the last 100m.
Finish
I knew from my pace, I got sub-20, but had to Gian and fight off the barf. No convenient trash cans around, and I didn't want to sully the runway of my home airport! Manage to keep things in, finally look down at my watch, and see 19:44. YESSSSSSS.
I waited for my wife to pass the start/finish, and then joined her to finish the last 2K of her race. She's powering-through some nerve issues, so it was tough for her but she got it done.
Results
19:41 official time. 10/1183 overall. 2/93 AG (missed first by 5 seconds).
Got my sub-20 in the books, and now I never have to race another 5K again. The best reward of all!
My First 5K
...well, it's my first officially timed 5K race.
Preamble
I'm finally starting to get a good volume going again, although my ankle has good days and bad days. My knee will also grumble from time-to-time, but both aren't bad enough to force any days off (right now). So I've logged 3 consecutive 100K+ weeks, and been feeling good generally.
I have an upcoming 50K that I have been (in theory) training for, but it's mostly on the calendar just to grab a couple more lottery tickets for UTMB.
A month or two ago, someone at work mentions that DFW airport is hosting a 5K on one of its runways, and I thought it would be fun to go out there and do a runway race. Always wanted to try that. So I signed-up (so did my wife).
Well, as race day approaches, I'm still pushing volume for my overall fitness and kind of ignoring the 5K. I figured I wasn't in PR shape (unofficial 20:22), and would just go out and fun run it with my wife. I logged about 120K (78 miles) in the 7 days preceding the 5K, and even the morning of the race I went out and ran my usual 13K (8 mile) route to continue building volume. A little progression at the end, but nothing serious. I hadn't run 5K pace since the FBG 5K during COVID.
I shower after my morning run, change into a different set of running gear, and put on my fast shoes (Saucony Endorphin Speed) "just in case".
It's about a 2K walk to the start of the race, and I down a Mountain Dew en route. We get there, snap some photos, and before I know it, they're counting-down to the start. AGH I don't have my camera stashed, my playlist setup, or my watch GPS locked. So I step off to the side, and get all that going while a huge number of runners cross the start line. I didn't want to cross the timing mat to start until I was ready. Took a minute or so to get all that together, fired up a random playlist, and got running.
DFW 5K on the Runway - First 1K
In the moment, the Mountain Dew high kicks-in and I figure I'll run "fast" for the first 1K and see what split that results in. And then probably slow down from there. So I'm bobbing-and-weaving through all the people who started before me. Definitely don't feel like I'm running at a pace for a 20-minute 5K, but the fast shoes always add a bit, as does the Mountain Dew.
First 1K split hits and reads through on my headphones: 3:55 (6:19/mi).
Oh. Well, that's interesting. Maybe I'll try to hold this pace for another kilometer and then I'm sure I'll have to slow down. But this crowd is really starting to thin out -- it looks like I only have ~20 people in front of me. Honestly, I'm feeling a little /flex being so close to the leaders. Hmmm.
2K
3:55 again. Ummm, really? I'm working hard and feeling really punished, but I'm surprised I managed to put two sub-4:00 KMs together. And I'm still passing people. I hit the first turnaround at one end of the runway, and horribly turn really wide, but whatever.
OK let's stick with this pace and fight through the pain, and I'm sure I'll run out of gas and slow down in a bit. See how things go.
3K
3:55 again. I pass my wife going the other direction, and she's cheering me on. Best I can muster is a pathetic semi-hand-wave to acknowledge the cheering and that I saw her. But I'm fully in suffer mode. I keep the pace up deep into 3K and start to approach the second turnaround. But the mental math starts. Can I get through ~1.5K more at this pace? I have 15 seconds buffer from 4:00/km now, even if I fade a little, I have a shot at my long-dreamed sub-20 5K...
Hit the second turnaround, big wide turn again (ugh), but two things happen at this point. One to challenge me, and another to motivate me:
4K
3:59.
The challenge is that I'm slapped with a headwind all of a sudden. "WTF?", I thought to myself -- "I was running with a tailwind for the last ~2K???". It wasn't fierce by any means, but just the difference was a little demoralizing. That I was keeping those paces with a smidge of help, and now that has turned into a smidge of harm.
The motivator was the big difference-maker. At the point of the turnaround, the finish was more than a kilometer away, but I could see it. I knew it was a ways away, but seeing it helped so much. I just need to keep this pace until I get there.
Then, as I always do when my HR gets high, I start to feel barfy. Oh great. I'm going to have to stop to barf. Wait a minute: Stopping to barf is a quality excuse to end this pain. But "thankfully" it subsides.
And all I have to do is run one more K at a 4-ish pace to hit my long-dreamed sub-20 5K. "BUCK THE **** UP, YOU *****!", I'm telling myself. You now haven't come this far just to miss this goal in the final moments.
I turn a little bit of fade into some extra oomph, and as the finish line inevitably approaches, resign myself to barfing at the finish and push. I hit a 3:40/km (5:53/mi) pace in the last 100m.
Finish
I knew from my pace, I got sub-20, but had to Gian and fight off the barf. No convenient trash cans around, and I didn't want to sully the runway of my home airport! Manage to keep things in, finally look down at my watch, and see 19:44. YESSSSSSS.
I waited for my wife to pass the start/finish, and then joined her to finish the last 2K of her race. She's powering-through some nerve issues, so it was tough for her but she got it done.
Results
19:41 official time. 10/1183 overall. 2/93 AG (missed first by 5 seconds).
Got my sub-20 in the books, and now I never have to race another 5K again. The best reward of all!
Last edited:
ChiefD
Footballguy
Well la-di-fuuuuuckin-da i’ll just go run at the airport because that looks cheeky because of the long flat runways and to prepare run 78 miles a week just so i can train for some long race later and oh hell i forgot about the 5k but figured what the hell i’ll just run 8 miles before the race and then swig some dew because i was a little tired and while i’m out here i may as well PR because why wouldn’t i and then when i’m done i’ll go run back into the race and finish her race with her……….
gianmarco
Footballguy
I'd laugh, but...
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
And since Big Z was shaming us a bit, I'll give a bit of an update. It's kind of funny that it comes on the heels of Zasada running a 5K because he's the trail guy. But I, the low mileage 5K guy, have a 40 miler in 3 weeks. It's definitely dogs and cats living together in the thread right now. Anyhoo, my 17 miles today was a bit of a fiasco, which kind of stinks because it's my last long run before the ultra. But, whatever hay I'm going to shovel into the barn is already there, so all I can do now is taper and try to eat right and get my head in the right place. I did learn a few things on today's run and during the 20 miler from a few weeks ago, so hopefully I can leverage that to run smart on race day. We'll see 
ChiefD
Footballguy
Well la-di-da i’ll just drop this la-di-double today since i happened to run 17 miles after running 20 a couple weeks ago and oh by the way here comes a 40 miler in a few weeks which most of us would never try in the first place…….And since Big Z was shaming us a bit, I'll give a bit of an update. It's kind of funny that it comes on the heels of Zasada running a 5K because he's the trail guy. But I, the low mileage 5K guy, have a 40 miler in 3 weeks. It's definitely dogs and cats living together in the thread right now. Anyhoo, my 17 miles today was a bit of a fiasco, which kind of stinks because it's my last long run before the ultra. But, whatever hay I'm going to shovel into the barn is already there, so all I can do now is taper and try to eat right and get my head in the right place. I did learn a few things on today's run and during the 20 miler from a few weeks ago, so hopefully I can leverage that to run smart on race day. We'll see
The Iguana
Footballguy
1. It would make me sad if race reports died or became 'not a thing' anymore while I was MIA. Already makes me sad the volume of posts in here is lacking. You guys rock as motivators!
2. I am not sure how you can say you never have to suffer that again... How can you not be curious on what you might do when you don't do an 8 mile 'warm up' before crushing a 5k?
The Iguana
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
This is the first WEEK I've ran more than 17 miles since July and it required finishing with compression socks, a day full of oofos, and I passed out from exhaustion before 10 pm on a Saturday night. Great work, Z. And I'll keep taking my shaming
The Iguana
Footballguy
So, how did this thread die? I still see a number of you on my strava feed so you haven't quit running. Where are you people?
tri-man 47
Footballguy
A few of the guys have backed off on, or essentially, stopped their running. And in general, there's been a lot less racing. All of that leads to a lot less posting ...and less banter, unfortunately.
pbm107
Footballguy
Good question, I have one of my own perhaps someone here can answer. WTF is going on with Nike, I would like to purchase Alphafly 3s size 10.5 and I can't find them. Does anyone know when they'll be available?
The Iguana
Footballguy
I see you out there putting in some miles, which makes me happy. However, your better half is absolutely crushing it lately with some serious miles, which is both really cool to see and, more importantly for me, quite motivating as I try to be smart about slowly building some miles and try to reacquire some level of fitness.
pbm107
Footballguy
Nevermind, just received shipping confirmation from Running Warehouse.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Fox Valley Marathon (9/22/24)
My most epic running fail ever. Discretion being the better part of valor, I pulled myself off the course at mile 21.
The heart of the issue was the weather - 70 degrees, and 90%+ humidity. Some rain rolled in, and I'm not sure if that helped or hurt. In any case, on this day, I just Could. Not. Run. Or more accurately, I couldn't run a good, steady pace while keeping my HR under control. Adding to the problems of the day were inconsistent goals. The primary goal was a BQ and an AG win. But I also had time goals ...time goals that were, in hindsight, too aggressive for the training (esp. the shoe acclimation) and far too aggressive for the conditions! I knew what the weather was, so I should have solely focused on the BQ and dropped an pretense of a time goal. But I'm not that ..smart.. a runner.
Training was generally good, but with some flaws. I did three comfortable long runs (21+) on hot days. I focused on quality workouts. But while I did hills and intervals, I know I fell short on true tempo runs. That was in part due to the continually hot training days. Mid-summer I picked up some kind of protrusion on the back of my right foot. Bone spur? Hagland's Deformity? It was OK when I ran, but it hurt like hell afterwards and, notably, for a day or two afterwards. Over the last several weeks of training, I resorted to running every 2nd or even 3rd day, which means I wasn't racking up the mileage ...and there's really no substitute for mileage. Another contributing factor was not buying new super shoes until two weeks before the race. I'd tried to get new Vaporflys earlier in the summer and again in late August but supply chain issues wrecked that plan. Eventually I had to switch gears to another shoe. But the two weeks pre-race became a major adjustment to the shoes rather than a relaxed taper. TLR - the weather was a serious problem, but it also magnified other weaknesses.
Race day went fine. Up early, routines were all good, drove 25 minutes to the race site, parked nearby, and did a mile+ warmup (due to the heel issue). A last pee stop then scooted to a good starting position quite far up in the corral. I took the first of four Gu's just before the start. I was also carrying my Nathan handheld with a strong electrolyte drink.
Miles 1-3 (7:33, 8:01, 7:59)
The quick start felt really easy, but wasn't smart, particularly if I had focused just on the BQ (which 'only' called for a 10:00/mile pace). HR on miles 2 and 3 was already at 159; 158. Not an encouraging sign. I should have started at essentially a training jog and seen what might develop. As an aside, it's always shocking that virtually every runner sucks at running tangents. We had a bend in the road right after the start and again a mile or two in, and I was by myself cutting off the bend. Weird.
Miles 4-7 (8:08, 8:10, 8:20, 8:10)
I slowed the pace a little to keep the HR at or below 160, which I know I needed to do through the first half of a marathon. I didn't stress it as I channeled my @SFBayDuck ("this is not the day I wanted" .."but it's the day you've got"), which I'd think about a few times along the way. I tried to be smart and slowed through every aid station so I could drink down a half cup of Gatorade.
Miles 8-13 (8:43, 8:35, 8:50, 8:46, 8:53, 8:50)
OK, this is not good. Still working to keep my HR around 160. But I rarely run 8:5x miles, particularly in super shoes. Not good at all.
Miles 14-15 (9:14, 9:19)
Yikes! I can't remember the last time I ran this pace while on a flat, straight, paved surface. HR now in the mid-160s. Dammit! But it can't get any worse, can it? Oh, yes ...yes it can.
Miles 16-19 (9:48, 10:04, 9:59, 10:23)
WTH? On any other day, I couldn't run this pace if I tried. Yet, here it is.
Miles 20-21 (13:05, 13:52)
I'm officially defeated. This was the second loop through a small hill, and I walked it. These two miles were a process of jogging/walking and mentally processing the pros and cons of dropping out at the mile 21 aid station. On one hand, don't be a wimp, right? Turn this into a 'success' by fighting through to the finish. But if I achieved a comparatively slow BQ (with no certainty that I could even do so), I'd still want to run another marathon to achieve a better Boston starting corral. And on the other hand, my mind and body were totally shot. I didn't want to risk damage that might take me weeks to recover from. So ...I dropped.
Unfortunately, it took forever for the medical staff at the aid station to arrange a race vehicle to pick me up and drive me the five miles back to the finish area/parking garage. But as bad as I had it: In that vehicle already were two runners who mistakenly started a third loop through the far end, two-loop section of the course! They eventually figured out their error. The vehicle dropped one runner off at mile 23 so she could 'finish' her marathon, and it dropped the other at mile 25 so he could finish. Sadly, she was from Ohio, and he was from New York ...a long way to travel to screw up the course.
More unfortunately for me, my kids/spouses and grandsons had decided to surprise me and were waiting at mile 24.
They saw my split at a mile 21 mat, but then ...nothing until I texted everyone an hour later.
So the weather sucked. But I think a big issue was the adaptation to the super shoes. In my first couple of runs in those shoes, I was feeling the stride change in my quads. I think the running issue was that my quads were woefully unprepared for a long race in the super shoes. The extra strain on the quads put extra strain on the HR ...magnified by the humidity where I couldn't cool the body.
Of note, while at the aid station, I filled and drank through my handheld twice (after gels/fluids on the course). I drank more on the way home. Before showering, I weighed myself ...and I was still down 5 lbs. Beyond that, I felt pretty good in the hours/days after the race, which was part of the plan in dropping out early. That facilitated a couple of very good training weeks as I gear up for the Grand Rapids Marathon on October 20. I'm really looking forward to that! ...but with plans to be cautious, as needed. The weather should be rather ideal for late October in Michigan.
I told my grandsons that I'd signed up for another BQ marathon race. The 7 y.o.'s response: "At least run the whole race this time."
My most epic running fail ever.
Discretion being the better part of valor, I pulled myself off the course at mile 21.The heart of the issue was the weather - 70 degrees, and 90%+ humidity. Some rain rolled in, and I'm not sure if that helped or hurt. In any case, on this day, I just Could. Not. Run. Or more accurately, I couldn't run a good, steady pace while keeping my HR under control. Adding to the problems of the day were inconsistent goals. The primary goal was a BQ and an AG win. But I also had time goals ...time goals that were, in hindsight, too aggressive for the training (esp. the shoe acclimation) and far too aggressive for the conditions! I knew what the weather was, so I should have solely focused on the BQ and dropped an pretense of a time goal. But I'm not that ..smart.. a runner.
Training was generally good, but with some flaws. I did three comfortable long runs (21+) on hot days. I focused on quality workouts. But while I did hills and intervals, I know I fell short on true tempo runs. That was in part due to the continually hot training days. Mid-summer I picked up some kind of protrusion on the back of my right foot. Bone spur? Hagland's Deformity? It was OK when I ran, but it hurt like hell afterwards and, notably, for a day or two afterwards. Over the last several weeks of training, I resorted to running every 2nd or even 3rd day, which means I wasn't racking up the mileage ...and there's really no substitute for mileage. Another contributing factor was not buying new super shoes until two weeks before the race. I'd tried to get new Vaporflys earlier in the summer and again in late August but supply chain issues wrecked that plan. Eventually I had to switch gears to another shoe. But the two weeks pre-race became a major adjustment to the shoes rather than a relaxed taper. TL
R - the weather was a serious problem, but it also magnified other weaknesses.Race day went fine. Up early, routines were all good, drove 25 minutes to the race site, parked nearby, and did a mile+ warmup (due to the heel issue). A last pee stop then scooted to a good starting position quite far up in the corral. I took the first of four Gu's just before the start. I was also carrying my Nathan handheld with a strong electrolyte drink.
Miles 1-3 (7:33, 8:01, 7:59)
The quick start felt really easy, but wasn't smart, particularly if I had focused just on the BQ (which 'only' called for a 10:00/mile pace). HR on miles 2 and 3 was already at 159; 158. Not an encouraging sign. I should have started at essentially a training jog and seen what might develop. As an aside, it's always shocking that virtually every runner sucks at running tangents. We had a bend in the road right after the start and again a mile or two in, and I was by myself cutting off the bend. Weird.
Miles 4-7 (8:08, 8:10, 8:20, 8:10)
I slowed the pace a little to keep the HR at or below 160, which I know I needed to do through the first half of a marathon. I didn't stress it as I channeled my @SFBayDuck ("this is not the day I wanted" .."but it's the day you've got"), which I'd think about a few times along the way. I tried to be smart and slowed through every aid station so I could drink down a half cup of Gatorade.
Miles 8-13 (8:43, 8:35, 8:50, 8:46, 8:53, 8:50)
OK, this is not good. Still working to keep my HR around 160. But I rarely run 8:5x miles, particularly in super shoes. Not good at all.
Miles 14-15 (9:14, 9:19)
Yikes! I can't remember the last time I ran this pace while on a flat, straight, paved surface. HR now in the mid-160s. Dammit! But it can't get any worse, can it? Oh, yes ...yes it can.
Miles 16-19 (9:48, 10:04, 9:59, 10:23)
WTH? On any other day, I couldn't run this pace if I tried. Yet, here it is.
Miles 20-21 (13:05, 13:52)
I'm officially defeated. This was the second loop through a small hill, and I walked it. These two miles were a process of jogging/walking and mentally processing the pros and cons of dropping out at the mile 21 aid station. On one hand, don't be a wimp, right? Turn this into a 'success' by fighting through to the finish. But if I achieved a comparatively slow BQ (with no certainty that I could even do so), I'd still want to run another marathon to achieve a better Boston starting corral. And on the other hand, my mind and body were totally shot. I didn't want to risk damage that might take me weeks to recover from. So ...I dropped.
Unfortunately, it took forever for the medical staff at the aid station to arrange a race vehicle to pick me up and drive me the five miles back to the finish area/parking garage. But as bad as I had it: In that vehicle already were two runners who mistakenly started a third loop through the far end, two-loop section of the course! They eventually figured out their error. The vehicle dropped one runner off at mile 23 so she could 'finish' her marathon, and it dropped the other at mile 25 so he could finish. Sadly, she was from Ohio, and he was from New York ...a long way to travel to screw up the course.
More unfortunately for me, my kids/spouses and grandsons had decided to surprise me and were waiting at mile 24.
They saw my split at a mile 21 mat, but then ...nothing until I texted everyone an hour later. So the weather sucked. But I think a big issue was the adaptation to the super shoes. In my first couple of runs in those shoes, I was feeling the stride change in my quads. I think the running issue was that my quads were woefully unprepared for a long race in the super shoes. The extra strain on the quads put extra strain on the HR ...magnified by the humidity where I couldn't cool the body.
Of note, while at the aid station, I filled and drank through my handheld twice (after gels/fluids on the course). I drank more on the way home. Before showering, I weighed myself ...and I was still down 5 lbs. Beyond that, I felt pretty good in the hours/days after the race, which was part of the plan in dropping out early. That facilitated a couple of very good training weeks as I gear up for the Grand Rapids Marathon on October 20. I'm really looking forward to that! ...but with plans to be cautious, as needed. The weather should be rather ideal for late October in Michigan.
I told my grandsons that I'd signed up for another BQ marathon race. The 7 y.o.'s response: "At least run the whole race this time."
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Glad I was there for you! My (many) struggles should be of mid-race comfort to all of you.
Gotta love the lack of a filter on the little ones!
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
Preach it, good sir! I'm continually baffled by this phenomenon.
This was the eye-opening thing for me on my two long training runs this month, which were meant to be easier efforts, but were both in full sun and 70+ degrees. The first one I was somehow down 6 pounds after I had drank a decent amount of water before taking my shower. The second one I thought I was drinking a ton but I was still dehydrated. I came to the kind of startling realization that I don't know how much I'm supposed to drink for longer efforts. Half marathons you can get away with skimping and rehydrating afterwards, and all of my past 2hr+ training runs have been in the winter months where you're just not sweating very much.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I dropped.
I’ve had more than my fair share of drops. In fact, there was a time here that a DNF was called Juxting a race. It's been several years but that's likely due to being careful picking races and having a lengthy stretch of at least decent weather conditions.
For me, personally, I feel that there is no difference in dropping and finishing significantly below goal time. Attempting to explain that to others, though, isn't fun.
Anyway, I have a good feeling about your next attempt!
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
The thread always seemed to get a lift from people new to running who would be eager to ask for advice. The board is aging, though, and there just aren't going to be number of newbies as there once was.
For the rest of us? We're getting older too. Some don't run as much anymore for a variety of reasons. Others have been running for so many years it becomes so routine. There just isn't as much to talk about.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
I quit running, unfortunately. Or did running quit me?
Late 2019 - serious foot injury. 2020 - covid cancellations, still dealing with foot. 2021 - moved away from all my trails to a road and track town, cracked a rib on a run (couldn't breathe deeply for a couple months). 2022 - ran a 5K off the couch while wearing Altras and blew up my achilles, led to almost a year of PT. And now as of last week I was officially diagnosed with arthritis in my right big toe*, it's painful all of the time. All of that also contributed to gaining a bunch of weight.
I did just join a gym a couple of months ago, had a handful of sessions with a trainer, and have been building a new habit by lifting weights 2-4 times a week. Still outside walking Summit 1-2 hours a day, and we get a hike in most weekends. And I do hope to get back to running at least a little.
*Funny story on that - podiatrist is examining me and we're going through my history. "Have you ever seriously injured the toe?" I say, "No, nothing acute that I can remember. But I ran 25-30 ultras over a 6-7 year period." And he responds, "So yeah, you injured the toe."
gianmarco
Footballguy
Any chance it's gout?
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
That was one of my first thoughts as well. I like booze, red meat, and, in related news, I'm a chubby *******. But uric acid levels were normal last I checked. And we did do an x-ray - he said it was mild (not bone-on-bone or anything), but signs of arthritis were there.
gianmarco
Footballguy
You can have gout and normal (even low) uric acid levels.
I would consider seeing a physician just to make sure.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Interesting. So how is it diagnosed?
-OZ-
Footballguy
It’s good to see people posting again and the race reports.
I don’t have any races coming up in the next 9 months and I’m actually taking an off season for once.
I’m volunteering at the Huntsville half and rocket city marathon, but I don’t think I’ll be doing any run races for a while without a timed swim and bike warmup.
I don’t have any races coming up in the next 9 months and I’m actually taking an off season for once.
I’m volunteering at the Huntsville half and rocket city marathon, but I don’t think I’ll be doing any run races for a while without a timed swim and bike warmup.
gianmarco
Footballguy
Sometimes uric acid levels. Sometimes findings on x-ray or other imaging. Ideally they get fluid from the joint and get analysis on it.
I'm not saying that's what it is. It can absolutely just be arthritis, especially given your history of ultras.
But if you've ever noticed it flare up ever in the past (get red, more painful), then I would strongly suggest you have it evaluated, and would personally recommend a physician
Brony
Footballguy
Gout is always caused by high uric acid levels. You may have a blood test that indicates a lower Uric Acid at a moment in time, but if you have gout, you had to have elevated uric acid for some period of time. Now pseudogout... that's a different story.
Love,
a guy who spent 10+ years of all working hours thinking about gout
gianmarco
Footballguy
That's what I meant by the above. You can have a normal or even low uric acid level on your blood test.
That's why the joint fluid is diagnostic as you're looking for uric acid crystals there.
Just because they checked uric acid levels once and it was normal doesn't rule out gout was my take home point.
bushdocda
Footballguy
Ah. Nice!
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Sometimes uric acid levels. Sometimes findings on x-ray or other imaging. Ideally they get fluid from the joint and get analysis on it.
I'm not saying that's what it is. It can absolutely just be arthritis, especially given your history of ultras.
But if you've ever noticed it flare up ever in the past (get red, more painful), then I would strongly suggest you have it evaluated, and would personally recommend a physician
Yeah none of those flare signs. The joint looks a little swollen compared to the left one, but no redness and the swelling never really noticeably changes.
Probably still worth getting checked. Curious though - would a podiatrist not be able to diagnose that as well as a physician? Is this like going to a surgeon they're always going to recommend surgery kind of thing?
Of course my "primary" physician took a year to get into see for a physical (tried several places in town, they were all like that), and then he spent a total of about 5 minutes with me. "You drink? You do drugs? You have sex with multiple partners?" ("I mean, not all at the same time"), ordered a blood panel and a colonoscopy, and he was off.
gianmarco
Footballguy
If no flares, then makes it much less likely.Sometimes uric acid levels. Sometimes findings on x-ray or other imaging. Ideally they get fluid from the joint and get analysis on it.
I'm not saying that's what it is. It can absolutely just be arthritis, especially given your history of ultras.
But if you've ever noticed it flare up ever in the past (get red, more painful), then I would strongly suggest you have it evaluated, and would personally recommend a physician
Yeah none of those flare signs. The joint looks a little swollen compared to the left one, but no redness and the swelling never really noticeably changes.
Probably still worth getting checked. Curious though - would a podiatrist not be able to diagnose that as well as a physician? Is this like going to a surgeon they're always going to recommend surgery kind of thing?
Of course my "primary" physician took a year to get into see for a physical (tried several places in town, they were all like that), and then he spent a total of about 5 minutes with me. "You drink? You do drugs? You have sex with multiple partners?" ("I mean, not all at the same time"), ordered a blood panel and a colonoscopy, and he was off.
Yes, a podiatrist can diagnose it, but they are limited to the feet and gout can be present elsewhere and/or can sometimes be challenging to diagnose. So, if it's straightforward, sure, podiatrists can handle it. But, if there's anything beyond that, it's likely worth a visit to your PCP. Unfortunate to hear about your PCP, it sucks now given shortages, time constraints (thanks Insurance companies!), and some just aren't as good as others. That said, this isn't just a physical/well visit. You would do this as a problem visit and shouldn't take as long to get in.
Not trying to get you to spend more time/money on something that may not be needed, and if the toe has never been red/swollen or had any kind of flare ups, then yeah, it's probably just arthritis, especially in the setting of a normal uric acid level.
Just my $.02.
gianmarco
Footballguy
FYI, here's an algorithm for gout:
Gout algorithm
And the little symbol in the 4-8 score range says this: The evaluation and management of patients in this group is complex. Refer to the topic on the clinical manifestations and diagnosis of gout for additional discussion.
Hence, why I would say a podiatrist probably isn't the best resource when you're in that group.
And just by you being male and it involving your big toe, you're automatically over 4. And why if you had a flare (one day onset of redness "attack"), then it's a high probability at that point.
Gout algorithm
And the little symbol in the 4-8 score range says this: The evaluation and management of patients in this group is complex. Refer to the topic on the clinical manifestations and diagnosis of gout for additional discussion.
Hence, why I would say a podiatrist probably isn't the best resource when you're in that group.
And just by you being male and it involving your big toe, you're automatically over 4. And why if you had a flare (one day onset of redness "attack"), then it's a high probability at that point.
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
Appreciate your professional perspective, so thank you for weighing in. And I'm finally about to hit the deductible for my high deductible plan, so need to squeeze as many appointments in as I can in the next 2 1/2 months!
ChiefD
Footballguy
SFBayDuck
Footballguy
You have that, too?
