Rankings the 32 starting NFL QBs (1 Viewer)

[Nihilist Pig]

And for ppl to put McNabb & Vick anywhere *near* each other in *QB* ranking is laughable, imo.Carry on...

I agree with this.With McNabb it's been illustrated quite clearly that when he is injured, the Eagles don't miss a beat, even with journeymen like Detmer and Feeley taking over.Without Vick, the Falcons are a nightmare. With him, they're a contender.Vick's value to his team has been proven in the only lab that matters to be far greater than McNabb's is to his.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

And for ppl to put McNabb & Vick anywhere *near* each other in *QB* ranking is laughable, imo.

Carry on...   

I agree with this.With McNabb it's been illustrated quite clearly that when he is injured, the Eagles don't miss a beat, even with journeymen like Detmer and Feeley taking over.

Without Vick, the Falcons are a nightmare. With him, they're a contender.

Vick's value to his team has been proven in the only lab that matters to be far greater than McNabb's is to his.

I hope this is sarcasm.Vick is no where near McNabb. Not even close. At this point McNabb is heads and shoulders ahead of Vick.

Without Vick the Atlanta Falcons and a 4th string QB who should have never been playing prove nothing as to how important Vick is to the Falcons. Give a starting QB in the NFL a chance in Atlanta and they are just fine. Heck give Schaub a chance and although there may be a slight drop off, it is not this major one you are trying to make it out to be!!

Are you forgetting how dominant the Eagles with McNabb at the helm have been for the last while. Remember the guy who lead his team to the SB last year. Am not knocking Vick here just can't believe people are saying he is as good as McNabb.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Big Ben is good, heck he is great, but he is not yet a top 3 QB in this league. He definitely is on the right path to becoming a top 3 QB, but lets not jump the gun on this guy. Brady and Manning are definitely 1 and 2 and can be flip flopped either way IMO.McNabb, Palmer, Hasselback, Bulger, are still ahead of Big Ben at this point.*Culpepper could be.Big Ben is opening up a lot of eyes, but he is getting anointed far to quickly. Don't get me wrong I really like this guy but I can't rate him ahead of these guys just yet. This play off push is definitely narrowing the gap, and another strong season next year may put him there but lets take it a little more slowly.

 

[Warehouse Nasty]

Solid list-I could argue many of them but I'll choose only one.Hasselbeck-what does this guy have to do to get more credit? If he played in a bigger market, he'd be recognized as a top 5 QB

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Solid list-I could argue many of them but I'll choose only one.

Hasselbeck-what does this guy have to do to get more credit? If he played in a bigger market, he'd be recognized as a top 5 QB

So true.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

And for ppl to put McNabb & Vick anywhere *near* each other in *QB* ranking is laughable, imo.

Carry on...

I agree with this.With McNabb it's been illustrated quite clearly that when he is injured, the Eagles don't miss a beat, even with journeymen like Detmer and Feeley taking over.

Without Vick, the Falcons are a nightmare. With him, they're a contender.

Vick's value to his team has been proven in the only lab that matters to be far greater than McNabb's is to his.

I hope this is sarcasm.Vick is no where near McNabb. Not even close. At this point McNabb is heads and shoulders ahead of Vick.

Without Vick the Atlanta Falcons and a 4th string QB who should have never been playing prove nothing as to how important Vick is to the Falcons. Give a starting QB in the NFL a chance in Atlanta and they are just fine. Heck give Schaub a chance and although there may be a slight drop off, it is not this major one you are trying to make it out to be!!

Are you forgetting how dominant the Eagles with McNabb at the helm have been for the last while. Remember the guy who lead his team to the SB last year. Am not knocking Vick here just can't believe people are saying he is as good as McNabb.

McNabb may be better than Vick, but he is certainly not "heads and shoulders' above him. Vick gets so much hate that he is soon to be underrated on this board.

 

[jonessed]

Solid list-I could argue many of them but I'll choose only one.

Hasselbeck-what does this guy have to do to get more credit?  If he played in a bigger market, he'd be recognized as a top 5 QB

He would apparently be number three if he played for Pittsburgh.

 

[radballs.]

Big Ben is good, heck he is great, but he is not yet a top 3 QB in this league. He definitely is on the right path to becoming a top 3 QB, but lets not jump the gun on this guy.

Brady and Manning are definitely 1 and 2 and can be flip flopped either way IMO.

McNabb, Palmer, Hasselback, Bulger, are still ahead of Big Ben at this point.

*Culpepper could be.

Big Ben is opening up a lot of eyes, but he is getting anointed far to quickly. Don't get me wrong I really like this guy but I can't rate him ahead of these guys just yet. This play off push is definitely narrowing the gap, and another strong season next year may put him there but lets take it a little more slowly.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

And for ppl to put McNabb & Vick anywhere *near* each other in *QB* ranking is laughable, imo.

Carry on...   

I agree with this.With McNabb it's been illustrated quite clearly that when he is injured, the Eagles don't miss a beat, even with journeymen like Detmer and Feeley taking over.

Without Vick, the Falcons are a nightmare. With him, they're a contender.

Vick's value to his team has been proven in the only lab that matters to be far greater than McNabb's is to his.

I hope this is sarcasm.Vick is no where near McNabb. Not even close. At this point McNabb is heads and shoulders ahead of Vick.

Without Vick the Atlanta Falcons and a 4th string QB who should have never been playing prove nothing as to how important Vick is to the Falcons. Give a starting QB in the NFL a chance in Atlanta and they are just fine. Heck give Schaub a chance and although there may be a slight drop off, it is not this major one you are trying to make it out to be!!

Are you forgetting how dominant the Eagles with McNabb at the helm have been for the last while. Remember the guy who lead his team to the SB last year. Am not knocking Vick here just can't believe people are saying he is as good as McNabb.

McNabb may be better than Vick, but he is certainly not "heads and shoulders' above him. Vick gets so much hate that he is soon to be underrated on this board.

Why is McNabb not head and shoulders ahead of Vick?? McNabb has proven that he can consistently win and has been to the SB. Therefore those saying Vick wins does not apply at all in this comparison to McNabb; furthermore McNabb's stats are way better then Vicks. So McNabb is equally as good a winner (probably better), and he also has way better stats. McNabb is a far superior passer and although he is not as good a runner the guy did have a year where he ran for 629 yards with 6 TD's and in that same year he also threw for 3365 yards to go along with those 629 yards rushing. Vick's top year in passing yards is 2936 yards. McNabb has passed better then that feat 4 times.

McNabb's passing TD's since he became the starter are as follows: 21, 25, 17 in only 10 games, 16, 31, 16 in only 9 games. Vick's best year is 16, and he also has a 14 and 15 to go with it. So McNabb's worst year is Vick's best year.

McNabb also has a better QB passing percentage in every single year he has played. McNabbs worst year at 57% is still better then Vick's best year at 56%.

So McNabb is a great winner and has far better stats, so why is McNabb not head and shoulders ahead of Vick again???

 

[Cookiemonster]

Big Ben is good, heck he is great, but he is not yet a top 3 QB in this league.  He definitely is on the right path to becoming a top 3 QB, but lets not jump the gun on this guy. 

Brady and Manning are definitely 1 and 2 and can be flip flopped either way IMO.

McNabb, Palmer, Hasselback,  Bulger, are still ahead of Big Ben at this point.

*Culpepper could be.

Big Ben is opening up a lot of eyes, but he is getting anointed far to quickly.  Don't get me wrong I really like this guy but I can't rate him ahead of these guys just yet.  This play off push is definitely narrowing the gap, and another strong season next year may put him there but lets take it a little more slowly.

Too early to call out Ben, but you put Palmer on your list? Carson has played just as much football in the NFL as Ben. Add a year to learn and a big play WR (maybe the best big-play guy after T.O.). I don't disagree w/ Brady, Manning. But if you can put Palmer in tier 2, how does the argument against Ben hold water? I can see including him in a tier w/ Palmer, Hass and McNabb, but w/ what McNabb has done in his career wouldn't you rank him #3?

 

[Cookiemonster]

In one breath you say how stats don't matter and it's all about leading your team, and in the next breath you pull a snap shot of stats out that pump your guy up.  It seems to me that you only want to look at stats that show how good he is, but you don't want to look at stats that show how underused he is.

I bet you if you told all 30 GM's that they could pick any QB they want for one year to lead their team (except for Brady and Manning), hardly any would even consider Big Ben.

I'm not saying that Big Ben might not become a great QB, all I'm saying is it is laughable that many consider him to be even or better than Manning or Brady right now.  This whole thread is oozing of homerism.

... and of homerism fighting homerism. Look at you two!

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Um, you just made my argument for me.  You said McNabb has better stats and then pointed out how McNabb plays in an offense where he shoulders more of the load aka throwing the ball more.  Think there is a correlation there?  If you are not sure, I will spell it out for you...McNabb has better numbers than Roethlisberger because he throws the ball a lot more.

I noticed, too, you left out W/L record and yards per attempt when talking about Roethlisberger.

And the fact that he doesn't throw as much is part of the reason why he isn't a top QB. What #2 ranked QB in the league only throws 22 times a game? If he is the 2nd best QB in the league, why wouldn't they want the ball in his hands a lot more? Big Ben threw as many attempts a game than Kyle Orton for pete sake. Looking at YPA for Ben is like looking at YPC for a backup RB. It means nothing to me if they hardly run or throw. Have Ben play in an offense where the defense is focussed on the passing game and he has to throw 30 times. His YPA will never be the same as it is now. Its pretty easy to run all game and then use the play action for a lengthy pass and then credit that YPA to Ben.

It has already been shown in this thread that this is outright false. The Steelers have been passing the ball a ton early in the game. Then when they get a lead, they just run the clock out. So in other words, its the pass setting up the run, not the other way around, and the opponents know this and do indeed gameplan for it.

You don't think Big Ben has the luxury of a great play action in Pitt because of the amount of run plays they call there?He still gets that luxury in the first half because he is in a Pitt uniform.

I don't think anyone is disputing that he gets better looks on a lot of his throws because the threat of the running game is there in Pittsburgh, but are we honestly at the point where a QB can't be considered among the best if he has a good running attack behind him? Does Manning benefit by having edgerrin James back there? I'd say so. So what if Eli throws 37 times a game, if that's the case, why aren't his numbers better than they are? Are you going to tell me the Giants don't posess the same running threat when Barber went for almost 1,900 yards this year on the ground? Shouldn't Trent Green, Matt Hasselbeck, and Jake Plummer all have the same luxury? Yet, none of them averaged as many ypa as Roethlisberger.And to answer your question directly, no, I doubt he'd still have a 8.9 ypa if he threw 35 times a game because teams would gear more to the pass, but I'd bet he'd still be around 8, which is as good as just about any QB in the NFL.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

top qb's win big games.. i don't care about if someone throws for 35 td and 4,000 yards and someone else barely gets too 3,000 and has like 18-20 tds.. its about winning and not making mistakes to cost your team and Big Ben has been great at that in his first 2 years cept last year in the playoffs so he belongs in #1 or #2 for me.. If he wins the Superbowl #1 for sure.

This thread is bordering on the ridiculous. Last year was 1/2 of his NFL career.

Last year's playoffs comprise exactly 2 of his 30 career starts.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

In one breath you say how stats don't matter and it's all about leading your team, and in the next breath you pull a snap shot of stats out that pump your guy up.  It seems to me that you only want to look at stats that show how good he is, but you don't want to look at stats that show how underused he is.

I bet you if you told all 30 GM's that they could pick any QB they want for one year to lead their team (except for Brady and Manning), hardly any would even consider Big Ben.

I'm not saying that Big Ben might not become a great QB, all I'm saying is it is laughable that many consider him to be even or better than Manning or Brady right now.  This whole thread is oozing of homerism.

First of all, I am not the one who said he was better than either Manning or Brady. I said the potential to be as good or better is there, and I stand by that.And stats AREN'T important to me. The reason I posted the above was to illustrate to the people who insist on statistical dominance as the measure of a good QB what is possible if he were to throw the ball as often as some other QBs, that's all. Here are the only stats that matter to me :

Steelers record 2004-2005 with Roethlisberger : 26-4 (.867)

Steelers record 2004-2005 w/o Roethlisberger : 4-3 (.571)

Is that a coincidence? It seems if "all he has to do is not turn the ball over," then a lot of QBs could do what he's doing. Why the huge discrepancy in wins? Their other QBs have lost one fewer game in 7 starts than he has in 30! Let's not forget that when he took over, the Steelers were 1-1 and coming off a 6-10 season.

I also think you're wrong on the bolded part. That may have been the case as recently as even a month ago, but not any more. And I am aware that this reeks of homerism, but you haven't heard me bashing every Steelers QB for the last two decades - I'm not pumping Ben up because he's a Steeler, I'm pumping him up because he's a borderline great Steeler. The fact that there are several non Steelers homers in this thread saying the exact same thing I am should make this more palatable for you.

 

[Noahs Troopers]

jwvdcw, good and well thought out, good job.

 

[ren hoek]

1. Peyton Manning2. Tom Brady3. Carson Palmer__________4. Matt Hasselbeck5. Jake Delhomme6. Ben Roethlisberger7. Donovan McNabb8. Michael Vick9. Drew Brees__________10. Marc Bulger11. Eli Manning12. Brett Favre13. David Carr14. Byron Leftwich15. Kurt Warner__________16. Brad Johnson17. Mark Brunell18. Trent Green19. Steve McNair20. Drew Bledsoe__________21. Rex Grossman22. Charlie Frye23. Gus Frerotte24. Daunte Culpepper25. Chris Simms__________26. Aaron Brooks27. Kerry Collins28. Joey Harrington28. Kyle Boller30. J.P. Losman31. Chad Pennington32. Alex Smith

 

[Banger]

1. Peyton Manning

2. Tom Brady

3. Carson Palmer

__________

4. Matt Hasselbeck

5. Jake Delhomme

6. Ben Roethlisberger

7. Donovan McNabb

8. Michael Vick

9. Drew Brees

__________

10. Marc Bulger

11. Eli Manning

12. Brett Favre

13. David Carr

14. Byron Leftwich

15. Kurt Warner

__________

16. Brad Johnson

17. Mark Brunell

18. Trent Green

19. Steve McNair

20. Drew Bledsoe

__________

21. Rex Grossman

22. Charlie Frye

23. Gus Frerotte

24. Daunte Culpepper

25. Chris Simms

__________

26. Aaron Brooks

27. Kerry Collins

28. Joey Harrington

28. Kyle Boller

30. J.P. Losman

31. Chad Pennington

32. Alex Smith

again with Carson Palmer. Let him win a playoff game before we put him up there with the best in the game. He has the potential but let's see him do it. Not to mention that he's coming off a catostrophic injury.

 

[Borat]

18. Trent Green

 

[Evilgrin 72]

18. Trent Green

Agree. That's WAY too low - 5 spots below David Carr? Come on.

 

[Sheriff66]

And the fact that he doesn't throw as much is part of the reason why he isn't a top QB. What #2 ranked QB in the league only throws 22 times a game?  If he is the 2nd best QB in the league, why wouldn't they want the ball in his hands a lot more?  Big Ben threw as many attempts a game than Kyle Orton for pete sake. 

Looking at YPA for Ben is like looking at YPC for a backup RB.  It means nothing to me if they hardly run or throw.  Have Ben play in an offense where the defense is focussed on the passing game and he has to throw 30 times.  His YPA will never be the same as it is now.  Its pretty easy to run all game and then use the play action for a lengthy pass and then credit that YPA to Ben.

Do you watch games or pay attention to what other people say here? Look at Roethlisberger's first half numbers this season. He is far more productive, meaning that they often get the lead because of his passing and then they run the ball almost the entire second half of games at times. Roethlisberger, however, has shown that when called upon to win games with his arm, he is more than capable. And to compare him to Orton just shows how little you know about football.

Some stats to support this case further :

1st half of games : 94-154 1475 yards 11 TD/4 INT passer rating of 105.8

That's in 12 games. Those numbers, projected over a full game, then times 16 games yields :

251-411 3,934 yards 30 TD 11 INT

He also has a 115.3 rating and a 9.4 ypa when the Steelers are behind (98.6 passer rating and 8.9 ypa overall), so enough of this crap about padding his ypa stats by running play action against stacked fronts when the Steelers are leading.

I bet you if you told all 30 GM's that they could pick any QB they want for one year to lead their team (except for Brady and Manning), hardly any would even consider Big Ben.

What do you base this on ? Are you a GM ? Work in the league ? What a stupid statement. You know this for sure, huh ??? Get over yourself....

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Big Ben is good, heck he is great, but he is not yet a top 3 QB in this league.  He definitely is on the right path to becoming a top 3 QB, but lets not jump the gun on this guy. 

Brady and Manning are definitely 1 and 2 and can be flip flopped either way IMO.

McNabb, Palmer, Hasselback,  Bulger, are still ahead of Big Ben at this point.

*Culpepper could be.

Big Ben is opening up a lot of eyes, but he is getting anointed far to quickly.  Don't get me wrong I really like this guy but I can't rate him ahead of these guys just yet.  This play off push is definitely narrowing the gap, and another strong season next year may put him there but lets take it a little more slowly.

Too early to call out Ben, but you put Palmer on your list? Carson has played just as much football in the NFL as Ben. Add a year to learn and a big play WR (maybe the best big-play guy after T.O.). I don't disagree w/ Brady, Manning. But if you can put Palmer in tier 2, how does the argument against Ben hold water? I can see including him in a tier w/ Palmer, Hass and McNabb, but w/ what McNabb has done in his career wouldn't you rank him #3?

Palmer gets a nod over Big Ben because not only did he lead one of the most prolific offenses in the league this year he also brought a team to the playoffs that had not been there for an eternity. To go along with winning he also had crazy stats and was destined to maybe win his first playoff game as he completed his first pass which was a beautiful bomb before his injury. Heck everyone says how important Ben is to Pitt, well Palmer is a pretty important guy to and maybe Cincy wins that game if he is not hurt.Like I said Ben is on his way, but is still below Palmer at this point. (this assuming Palmer has no ill effects from his injury).

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I try to take all things into account when making my tiers.Here is how I have it.Tier 1:1a) Bradyb) ManningTier 2:2) McNabbTier 3:HasselbackPalmerBulger*CulpepepperBig BenBig Ben in the lower end of tier 3. This is not a hit on him like I said, I just need to see a little more before I put him in the elite.

 

[suchislife]

I try to take all things into account when making my tiers.

Here is how I have it.

Tier 1:

1a) Brady

b) Manning

Tier 2:

2) McNabb

Tier 3:

Hasselback

Palmer

Bulger

*Culpepepper

Big Ben

Big Ben in the lower end of tier 3. This is not a hit on him like I said, I just need to see a little more before I put him in the elite.

I still have a hard time putting Manning up there with Brady. 3 SB rings vs. 3 playoff wins.

 

[Spartans Rule]

18. Trent Green

I agree it's too low, but by the same token I think the average poll will overrate Trent Green. Could anyone have a more favorable support situation?Green takes the snap and fakes a handoff to one of his two elite running backs, drawing the linebackers in. He then drops back and settles in behind two HOF linemen and another Pro Bowler. That buys him plenty of time to see if his explosive deep threat can put a move on that corner. Uh oh, a rusher's finally getting thru... luckily personal protector Tony Richardson is one of the best blocking fullbacks in the league. Ok, been long enough now... time to just dump over the middle for the easy first down to perhaps the best TE ever to play the game.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I will be posting my top 10 later today - I have received 344 faxed requests for this. I will be using a formula which includes the following criteria :Winning %Playoff wins (additional weight to be given for each round advanced to)Passer ratingCompletion percentageYards per attemptTotal passing yardsPassing TDsInterceptions thrown/fumbles lostRushing yards/TDsSacks takenThe top tier will be given triple weight, as QBs are ultimately measured by wins/losses (for those of you who think I am doing this just to give Roethlisberger a boost - see Montana, Joe vs. Marino, Dan to see how historians evaluate a QB.)The middle tier will be given double weight, as they are the most crucial stats for a QB. Personally, I think completion percentage, INT percentage, and adjusted YPA are by far the most important and telling stats, but many insist on using total yards and TDs as a measure, so I will appease, even though Roethlisberger will take a terrible hit here.The final tier will be given single weight, as they are less important stats for a QB, and could, in large part, be dictated by the personnel surrounding that player (i.e. the O-line... it wouldn't be fair for someone like Carr to take a monster hit for sacks when a lot of that is on the line)I know many will argue that the rushing yards/TDs are just as important as the passing ones, and I understand that point, but we are evaluating passers here. Besides, the only QB that's going to really stand out here is Vick, and he will have the value of his running ability quantified in his winning % stat.Here are the QBs I am evaluating :ManningBradyRoethlisbergerBulgerHasselbeckVickMcNabbDelhommeBreesPalmerThis seems to be about the consensus top 10 currently. These players will be evaluated on career stats and 2005 stats.. double weight will be given to the 2005 stats.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

I will be posting my top 10 later today - I have received 344 faxed requests for this. I will be using a formula which includes the following criteria :

Winning %

Playoff wins (additional weight to be given for each round advanced to)

Passer rating

Completion percentage

Yards per attempt

Total passing yards

Passing TDs

Interceptions thrown/fumbles lost

Rushing yards/TDs

Sacks taken

The top tier will be given triple weight, as QBs are ultimately measured by wins/losses (for those of you who think I am doing this just to give Roethlisberger a boost - see Montana, Joe vs. Marino, Dan to see how historians evaluate a QB.)

The middle tier will be given double weight, as they are the most crucial stats for a QB. Personally, I think completion percentage, INT percentage, and adjusted YPA are by far the most important and telling stats, but many insist on using total yards and TDs as a measure, so I will appease, even though Roethlisberger will take a terrible hit here.

The final tier will be given single weight, as they are less important stats for a QB, and could, in large part, be dictated by the personnel surrounding that player (i.e. the O-line... it wouldn't be fair for someone like Carr to take a monster hit for sacks when a lot of that is on the line)

I know many will argue that the rushing yards/TDs are just as important as the passing ones, and I understand that point, but we are evaluating passers here. Besides, the only QB that's going to really stand out here is Vick, and he will have the value of his running ability quantified in his winning % stat.

Here are the QBs I am evaluating :

Manning

Brady

Roethlisberger

Bulger

Hasselbeck

Vick

McNabb

Delhomme

Brees

Palmer

This seems to be about the consensus top 10 currently. These players will be evaluated on career stats and 2005 stats.. double weight will be given to the 2005 stats.

Can you please add Culpepper. This guy is definitely in the top 10 or at least worth mentioning.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I don't understand why any QBs get knocked because they have a good RB and defense. "Winning" QBs have both, because it's a team game. That doesn't take away from how well the QB runs the offense, makes plays, and leads the offense to score. Is it coincidence that Peyton Manning's worst year as a pro since his rookie season came when Edgerrin James went down and he threw 23 INTs? Or that John Elway only won Super Bowls by "managing" games in the playoffs while Terrell Davis carried the load? Is Hasselbeck any less of a QB because Shaun Alexander and the offensive line can dominate a game? Even gunslinger Brett Favre had a great running game when he was winning Super Bowls.Would Carson Palmer be viewed as this good a QB if the Bengals had a respectable defense? He'd still be just as talented as he is now, but he wouldn't have to throw the ball nearly as much.After watching Ben Roethlisberger play for 2 years, I'd be hard pressed to come up with a reason why I'd want anyone but Tom Brady to lead my team over him. Palmer, Manning, Hasselbeck... these are probably the three other guys who I'd also love to have.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I will be posting my top 10 later today - I have received 344 faxed requests for this.  I will be using a formula which includes the following criteria :

Winning %

Playoff wins (additional weight to be given for each round advanced to)

Passer rating

Completion percentage

Yards per attempt

Total passing yards

Passing TDs

Interceptions thrown/fumbles lost

Rushing yards/TDs

Sacks taken

The top tier will be given triple weight, as QBs are ultimately measured by wins/losses (for those of you who think I am doing this just to give Roethlisberger a boost - see Montana, Joe vs. Marino, Dan to see how historians evaluate a QB.)

The middle tier will be given double weight, as they are the most crucial stats for a QB.  Personally, I think completion percentage, INT percentage, and adjusted YPA are by far the most important and telling stats, but many insist on using total yards and TDs as a measure, so I will appease, even though Roethlisberger will take a terrible hit here.

The final tier will be given single weight, as they are less important stats for a QB, and could, in large part, be dictated by the personnel surrounding that player (i.e. the O-line... it wouldn't be fair for someone like Carr to take a monster hit for sacks when a lot of that is on the line)

I know many will argue that the rushing yards/TDs are just as important as the passing ones, and I understand that point, but we are evaluating passers here.  Besides, the only QB that's going to really stand out here is Vick, and he will have the value of his running ability quantified in his winning % stat.

Here are the QBs I am evaluating :

Manning

Brady

Roethlisberger

Bulger

Hasselbeck

Vick

McNabb

Delhomme

Brees

Palmer

This seems to be about the consensus top 10 currently.  These players will be evaluated on career stats and 2005 stats.. double weight will be given to the 2005 stats.

Can you please add Culpepper. This guy is definitely in the top 10 or at least worth mentioning.

Yes, I forgot him - he will be added.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

OK, done. I used per game averages for each player too, in games that player started, to extrapolate stats so as not to punish for injury or differing lengths of careers. This is the ranking which resulted, with comments :1. Brady - Super Bowl wins put him well over the top. Well above career average stats in '05 also helped.2. Roethlisberger - I don't think he belongs here, but the 4 playoff wins and huge #s in passer rating, ypa, and low turnover numbers overwhelmed a terrible yards/TDs showing.3. Manning - Hurt badly by the poor playoff record, but his record-breaking season last year helped push his career stats way up to make him a clse 3rd.4. Bulger - Jesus, I never realized how good his per game stats are. Since injuries don't penalize you in these rankings, he gets pushed way up by astronomical per game yardage and TD averages.5. McNabb - 2nd only to Brady in the playoff wins department helps make up for uneven stats. Has some great years and some mediocre ones, but low turnovers and good per game yardage this year helped.6. Culpepper - Had some truly explosive seasons but lack of overall playoff success and God-awful per game numbers from '05 hurt him.7. Palmer - Great '05 numbers, but career averages are as of yet just good, not great, and no playoff wins hurts.8. Delhomme - Good playoff wins, and some solid stats, but his #s overall are pedestrian in all categories. Falls behind the big guns inn yards and TDs, but also doesn't dazzle in the ypa or passer rating categories.9. Hasselbeck - Recent numbers boost his stock, career per game averages are not great. Recent playoff success also bolsters him, he'd likely have been 11th or 12th on this list going into this year. What that illustrates is that he's really stepped it up in '05 and is primed to move higher.10. Brees - Not spectacular in any category - just solid.11. Vick - If rushing stats had more to do with it, he'd be higher, but has had little playoff success and his passing numbers per game are by far the lowest of this group, even far below Ben's.Again, this is just a fun exercise, I don't think this accurately depicts who the best QBs are, but it's something to look at.

 

[ren hoek]

18. Trent Green

Agree. That's WAY too low - 5 spots below David Carr? Come on.

Honestly? I thought he reacted like that because I ranked Trent Green too high. Green is already one of the most over-rated players in the league as it is, but considering the dominating skill players that he has had around him the last few years, and his mind-blowing inability to be consistent from game to game, I have absolutely no qualms about rating him this low. A fair enough decision maker? Yes. A top 17 quarterback? I certainly don't believe so. And this doesn't even include the 2 or 3 back-ups around the league that I would rate over him as well.EDIT: Granted, the David Carr ranking is mostly speculative at this point.. but I think David Carr would play at a pretty high level if he had half the protection that other quarterbacks enjoy. 170+ sacks his first three years? That's a pathetic pass-blocking offensive line, and you can look no further than Jake Plummer to see what a difference a quality supporting cast can do for a quarterback.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

18. Trent Green

Agree. That's WAY too low - 5 spots below David Carr? Come on.

Honestly? I thought he reacted like that because I ranked Trent Green too high. Green is already one of the most over-rated players in the league as it is, but considering the dominating skill players that he has had around him the last few years, and his mind-blowing inability to be consistent from game to game, I have absolutely no qualms about rating him this low. A fair enough decision maker? Yes. A top 17 quarterback? I certainly don't believe so. And this doesn't even include the 2 or 3 back-ups around the league that I would rate over him as well.

I humbly disagree. He's had a terrific running game, but the guy has had NO receivers since getting to Kansas City. He IS terribly inconsistent, that's true, but his #s are pretty good :Average season (over 6.5 years as a starter) :

3942 yards 23 TD 14 INT 60.7 completion % (this has been significantly higher in recent years too) and a solid 7.7 yards per attempt. All this includes his dreadful 2001 season where he completed only 56% and had 17 TD and 24 INT. His other 5.5 seasons could all be described as solid or above average (this year maybe was just average, but certainly not bad.) His winning percentage isn't great, but he has made one Pro Bowl and has won 55% of his starts since coming to K.C.

I'd say I'd put him 12th or 13th, not 18th. Certainly, I think he deserves to be above guys like Leftwich and Carr, who haven't done anything worthy of high praise yet either, but also don't have Green's stats or wins.

 

[rockbottom895]

Heres the deal: You are going to own an NFL team for one year. You do not care at all about anything after that year. Your first player pickup in a QB, and all of them have been offered to you at the exact same salary. You can build the rest of your team however you want around that QB. How do you rank the 32 starting NFL QBs? Heres my list:

Tier #1

1. Tom Brady: I've discussed Brady/Manning to death. Check out this thread for some of my thoughts.

2. Big Ben: I expect to take some criticism here, but honestly what more could a QB do in his first two years?

3. P Manning: See the thread I linked to for Brady.

Tier #2

4. McNabb: A very complete QB imho. Has no real weakness. Can run, can throw, is well liked in the locker room, has won consistently and just missed out on winning a SB.

5. Vick: We've been through this before, and I don't feel like arguing it anymore. Yes, I realize that he sucks as a passer and that his stats aren't good. I don't think it matters. I think hes the one QB that could be one of the worst ranked passers in the NFL and still be the MVP. Hes that special. Without him, they went 2-10 two years ago(and 0-1 this year). And then last year he came back and took that 2-10 team to a 3-1 record! Yes, that same terrible 2-10 team went 3-1 with him...and get this: Those 4 games in which he played were the Falcons hardest stretch of games last year!

6. Carson Palmer: Having CJ surely helps a lot, but its hard to argue with his results so far.

7. Daunte Culpepper: Last offseason I did a list like this and I ranked him at #7. Nearly everyone jumped all over me for disrespecting him. I maintained that he was overrated due to having played with Moss. I think I was proven correct, as I don't think many people will say I'm ranking him too low anymore.

Tier #3

8. Jake Plummer: Even before this year, I thought he was underrated. Led Arizona to a playoff win, led the Broncos to the conference title, had a great statistical year.

9.Matt Hasselbeck: Has a great o-line, which surely helps, but has put up numbers regardless of who his WRs are. A bit underrated imo.

10. Jake Delhomme: Has quietly put up some great playoff numbers.

11. Marc Bulger: Before this season I would've said that hes overrated due to having such a great surrounding cast, but we saw how they fell apart without him.

12. Byron Leftwich: Seems to have all of the intangibles.

13. Drew Brees: Tough guy to rank. Don't ever see him as a superstar, but his accuracy will make him a very good QB for a long time imo.

14. Brett Favre: The hardest guy on this list to rank imo. Really could see an arguement for moving him way up or way down from this spot.

15. Trent Green: Wonder what he'd do with better WRs. Does have a great o-line though.

Tier #4

16. E Manning: A bit overrated imo. Still too young. Would rank much higher if this wasn't just for one year.

17. S McNair: Like Favre, its really tough to rank him so low.

18. A Brooks: Everyone is down on him right now, but hes still had some pretty impressive years. Could greatly benefit from a fresh start imo.

19. C Pennington: I'm assuming full health.

20. K Collins: Still not that old and his resume isn't as bad as some may think.

Tier #5

eh....didn't really feel like making a distinction between guys like Harrington and Carr and M Brunell. Teams without QBs already listed would think of QB as a weakness on their team for next year imho.

OK, im sorry, but you have no football knowledge at all. How could you possibly place Michael Vick ahead of Carson Palmer? HA! Vick has no understanding of the game of football, and has NO ARM whatsoever. Carson Palmer should be in Tier 1 replacing Big Ben. Don't say that Rothlisberger is amazing just because his team is in the superbowl. He is a great QB, dont get me wrong, but he isn't as talented as Carson, Daunte, or Matt Hasselback. I also feel that Hasselback should be #5 or #6. Here is a real top 10. We are also talking to this day, not a while ago.1.) Peyton Manning - Most talented as anyone I have ever seen. Runs the colts offense spectacularly. HANDS DOWN ANSWER!

2.) Carson Palmer - After Manning, no one is as accurate as this guy. Even after tearing his ACL, MCL, and entire knee, he completed a perfectly thrown 66 yard pass to Chris Henry.

3.) Tom Brady - Not as good as advertised. This year, when his defense got hurt, he couldnt take them all the way to the superbowl. Not a dissappointing year for him considering their injury problems, but defiantly not as skilled as Manning or Palmer.

4.) Matt Hasselback - No matter how much you can disagree, this guy is the real deal. Everyone will see on Sunday when he leads the Seahawks to the victory. He has been taking #### ever since he has been in the league, and look what he's done. The reason that this offense is successful is half due to his part, and not just Shaun Alexander

5.) Donovan McNabb - Not very impressive this year without TO, but he was also playing hurt. I expect to see good things from him next year, but nothing like he was before. He will have no recieving core once again, and the Eagles are heading straight downhill. Has a great arm, and good scrambling abilities. Used to be a good runner, but coaches in Phili told him to gain a few, so he isnt as quick anymore.

6.) Daunte Caulpepper - First few games without Moss were a huge disappointment, but next year he should bounce back. Trade Rumors are also around (maybe join Moss again in Oakland). When healthy, should go straight back to the top.

7.) Ben Rothlethisburger - Not as good as you have described. He deserves a ton of respect for his games here in this postseason, but the Steelers are a rush based offense. He is the best "game manager" quarterback in the league by far, but his talent isnt so large. His offensive line is also very good on the passblock. Next year, numbers should decline.

8.) Drew Brees - one of the most accurate quarterbacks in the entire league. Has an all-star cast of recievers and should continue to strive in San Diego (if he stays). MORE TALENTED THAN MICHAEL VICK!

9.) Jake Plummer - next to Ben Rothlesburger one of the best "game managers" for a rushbased offense. Only threw 7 interceptions this year. If Jake can stay the way he has been playing, and not transfer back to the old mistake Jake, then he should continue to strive.

10.) Trent Green - not a very good recieving core down in Kansis City, but a great TE and excellent RB. Has a hell of an arm, and is also very accurate. HE BEATS OUT VICK FOR THE 10TH SPOT!

Whose rankings were more accurate, me or jwvdcw's?

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Heres the deal: You are going to own an NFL team for one year. You do not care at all about anything after that year. Your first player pickup in a QB, and all of them have been offered to you at the exact same salary. You can build the rest of your team however you want around that QB. How do you rank the 32 starting NFL QBs? Heres my list:

Tier #1

1. Tom Brady: I've discussed Brady/Manning to death. Check out this thread for some of my thoughts.

2. Big Ben: I expect to take some criticism here, but honestly what more could a QB do in his first two years?

3. P Manning: See the thread I linked to for Brady.

Tier #2

4. McNabb: A very complete QB imho. Has no real weakness. Can run, can throw, is well liked in the locker room, has won consistently and just missed out on winning a SB.

5. Vick: We've been through this before, and I don't feel like arguing it anymore. Yes, I realize that he sucks as a passer and that his stats aren't good. I don't think it matters. I think hes the one QB that could be one of the worst ranked passers in the NFL and still be the MVP. Hes that special. Without him, they went 2-10 two years ago(and 0-1 this year). And then last year he came back and took that 2-10 team to a 3-1 record! Yes, that same terrible 2-10 team went 3-1 with him...and get this: Those 4 games in which he played were the Falcons hardest stretch of games last year!

6. Carson Palmer: Having CJ surely helps a lot, but its hard to argue with his results so far.

7. Daunte Culpepper: Last offseason I did a list like this and I ranked him at #7. Nearly everyone jumped all over me for disrespecting him. I maintained that he was overrated due to having played with Moss. I think I was proven correct, as I don't think many people will say I'm ranking him too low anymore.

Tier #3

8. Jake Plummer: Even before this year, I thought he was underrated. Led Arizona to a playoff win, led the Broncos to the conference title, had a great statistical year.

9.Matt Hasselbeck: Has a great o-line, which surely helps, but has put up numbers regardless of who his WRs are. A bit underrated imo.

10. Jake Delhomme: Has quietly put up some great playoff numbers.

11. Marc Bulger: Before this season I would've said that hes overrated due to having such a great surrounding cast, but we saw how they fell apart without him.

12. Byron Leftwich: Seems to have all of the intangibles.

13. Drew Brees: Tough guy to rank. Don't ever see him as a superstar, but his accuracy will make him a very good QB for a long time imo.

14. Brett Favre: The hardest guy on this list to rank imo. Really could see an arguement for moving him way up or way down from this spot.

15. Trent Green: Wonder what he'd do with better WRs. Does have a great o-line though.

Tier #4

16. E Manning: A bit overrated imo. Still too young. Would rank much higher if this wasn't just for one year.

17. S McNair: Like Favre, its really tough to rank him so low.

18. A Brooks: Everyone is down on him right now, but hes still had some pretty impressive years. Could greatly benefit from a fresh start imo.

19. C Pennington: I'm assuming full health.

20. K Collins: Still not that old and his resume isn't as bad as some may think.

Tier #5

eh....didn't really feel like making a distinction between guys like Harrington and Carr and M Brunell. Teams without QBs already listed would think of QB as a weakness on their team for next year imho.

OK, im sorry, but you have no football knowledge at all. How could you possibly place Michael Vick ahead of Carson Palmer? HA! Vick has no understanding of the game of football, and has NO ARM whatsoever. Carson Palmer should be in Tier 1 replacing Big Ben. Don't say that Rothlisberger is amazing just because his team is in the superbowl. He is a great QB, dont get me wrong, but he isn't as talented as Carson, Daunte, or Matt Hasselback. I also feel that Hasselback should be #5 or #6. Here is a real top 10. We are also talking to this day, not a while ago.1.) Peyton Manning - Most talented as anyone I have ever seen. Runs the colts offense spectacularly. HANDS DOWN ANSWER!

2.) Carson Palmer - After Manning, no one is as accurate as this guy. Even after tearing his ACL, MCL, and entire knee, he completed a perfectly thrown 66 yard pass to Chris Henry.

3.) Tom Brady - Not as good as advertised. This year, when his defense got hurt, he couldnt take them all the way to the superbowl. Not a dissappointing year for him considering their injury problems, but defiantly not as skilled as Manning or Palmer.

4.) Matt Hasselback - No matter how much you can disagree, this guy is the real deal. Everyone will see on Sunday when he leads the Seahawks to the victory. He has been taking #### ever since he has been in the league, and look what he's done. The reason that this offense is successful is half due to his part, and not just Shaun Alexander

5.) Donovan McNabb - Not very impressive this year without TO, but he was also playing hurt. I expect to see good things from him next year, but nothing like he was before. He will have no recieving core once again, and the Eagles are heading straight downhill. Has a great arm, and good scrambling abilities. Used to be a good runner, but coaches in Phili told him to gain a few, so he isnt as quick anymore.

6.) Daunte Caulpepper - First few games without Moss were a huge disappointment, but next year he should bounce back. Trade Rumors are also around (maybe join Moss again in Oakland). When healthy, should go straight back to the top.

7.) Ben Rothlethisburger - Not as good as you have described. He deserves a ton of respect for his games here in this postseason, but the Steelers are a rush based offense. He is the best "game manager" quarterback in the league by far, but his talent isnt so large. His offensive line is also very good on the passblock. Next year, numbers should decline.

8.) Drew Brees - one of the most accurate quarterbacks in the entire league. Has an all-star cast of recievers and should continue to strive in San Diego (if he stays). MORE TALENTED THAN MICHAEL VICK!

9.) Jake Plummer - next to Ben Rothlesburger one of the best "game managers" for a rushbased offense. Only threw 7 interceptions this year. If Jake can stay the way he has been playing, and not transfer back to the old mistake Jake, then he should continue to strive.

10.) Trent Green - not a very good recieving core down in Kansis City, but a great TE and excellent RB. Has a hell of an arm, and is also very accurate. HE BEATS OUT VICK FOR THE 10TH SPOT!

Whose rankings were more accurate, me or jwvdcw's?

I like jwvdcw's better. You have Brady behind Carson Palmer which is completely absurd, and your assessment of Roethlisberger could not be more off (although I would rank him closer to 7th than 2nd) I think you're rating pure passers more so than quarterbacks.

 

[ren hoek]

I like jwvdcw's better. You have Brady behind Carson Palmer which is completely absurd, and your assessment of Roethlisberger could not be more off (although I would rank him closer to 7th than 2nd)

I wouldn't call it absurd at all, but I would agree that Brady is a better quarterback. How can you not rank Palmer among the league's elite quarterbacks after the season he just had? This guy lost me after claiming that Vick has "NO ARM," as he put it.. Vick has arguably the biggest arm in the league. And his claim that Palmer made that 66-yard pass after having his knee injured is just plain wrong.

 

[ren hoek]

18. Trent Green

Agree. That's WAY too low - 5 spots below David Carr? Come on.

Honestly? I thought he reacted like that because I ranked Trent Green too high. Green is already one of the most over-rated players in the league as it is, but considering the dominating skill players that he has had around him the last few years, and his mind-blowing inability to be consistent from game to game, I have absolutely no qualms about rating him this low. A fair enough decision maker? Yes. A top 17 quarterback? I certainly don't believe so. And this doesn't even include the 2 or 3 back-ups around the league that I would rate over him as well.

I humbly disagree. He's had a terrific running game, but the guy has had NO receivers since getting to Kansas City. He IS terribly inconsistent, that's true, but his #s are pretty good :Average season (over 6.5 years as a starter) :

3942 yards 23 TD 14 INT 60.7 completion % (this has been significantly higher in recent years too) and a solid 7.7 yards per attempt. All this includes his dreadful 2001 season where he completed only 56% and had 17 TD and 24 INT. His other 5.5 seasons could all be described as solid or above average (this year maybe was just average, but certainly not bad.) His winning percentage isn't great, but he has made one Pro Bowl and has won 55% of his starts since coming to K.C.

I'd say I'd put him 12th or 13th, not 18th. Certainly, I think he deserves to be above guys like Leftwich and Carr, who haven't done anything worthy of high praise yet either, but also don't have Green's stats or wins.

Eddie Kennison has been pretty consistent for them.. not great, but very consistent. And up until this year, Trent Green has had the premier tight end in all of football to throw to. All of that doesn't even take into account the fantastic running game and offensive line he has to fall back on. Even if you give Trent Green credit for the quality year-end statistics he's managed to put up the past few years, the pedestrian season he just completed should be of concern considering that he's already 35 years old. Byron Leftwich was coming on pretty strong in a much less prolific offense than the Chiefs before he got hurt.

David Carr never has had much of a chance to show what he's capable of, and for a guy who was picked #1 overall and then thrown to the wolves his first year, I think he's played pretty well. I think his situation over the course of his career is very reminiscent of Jake Plummer, except his TD/INT ratio the last couple of years has shown him to be relatively less prone to making mistakes. A 14-11 TD/INT (and 16-14 last year) ratio isn't spectacular, but at least from what little I've seen of him, he's not throwing up Brett Favre softballs for the defense when he's behind in games. I honestly think the only thing Carr needs is a fresh start. He'd be a solid quarterback if he had a line that could keep from giving up 170 sacks in 3 years.

 

[brobe4]

Tier 1Tom BradyBig BenMcNabbTier 2PalmerManning( Trying to outsmart 11 guys plus the guys upstairs brilliant)Hasselback

 

[SoFresh&SoClean]

No one is ever going to convince me that Ben is a Top 3 QB.

Gee never would have guess. Nice to see such an open mind.

I'll listen, but thats like saying someone can convince you the world is flat. Just cause someone won't be able to convince me, doesn't mean I am not open minded.

Ok how about this question then: Do you feel that it is possible for you consider Ben a top 3 qb within the next 3 years?

As long as Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Carson Palmer stay in the league, Worthlessburger will sit at least 4th for some time to come.

 

[Odogs]

No one is ever going to convince me that Ben is a Top 3 QB.

Gee never would have guess. Nice to see such an open mind.

I'll listen, but thats like saying someone can convince you the world is flat. Just cause someone won't be able to convince me, doesn't mean I am not open minded.

Ok how about this question then: Do you feel that it is possible for you consider Ben a top 3 qb within the next 3 years?

As long as Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Carson Palmer stay in the league, Worthlessburger will sit at least 4th for some time to come.

And the Steelers will continue to beat on the Bengals.

 

[AB in DC]

And the fact that he doesn't throw as much is part of the reason why he isn't a top QB. What #2 ranked QB in the league only throws 22 times a game? If he is the 2nd best QB in the league, why wouldn't they want the ball in his hands a lot more?

This has to be the dumbest argument in the entire thread. Pittsburgh is 27-4 with him as a starter. Why on earth would the Steelers want to throw more if what they're doing now is working so well? Just to inflate Ben's stats?

 

[AB in DC]

I try to take all things into account when making my tiers.

Here is how I have it.

Tier 1:

1a) Brady

b) Manning

Tier 2:

2) McNabb

Tier 3:

Hasselback

Palmer

Bulger

*Culpepepper

Big Ben

Big Ben in the lower end of tier 3. This is not a hit on him like I said, I just need to see a little more before I put him in the elite.

I still don't understand why anyone would need to "see a little more" of Roethlisberger (30.5 games) and then proceed to rank him behind Carson Palmer (29 games).

 

[Chaz McNulty]

OK, done. I used per game averages for each player too, in games that player started, to extrapolate stats so as not to punish for injury or differing lengths of careers. This is the ranking which resulted, with comments :

1. Brady - Super Bowl wins put him well over the top. Well above career average stats in '05 also helped.

2. Roethlisberger - I don't think he belongs here, but the 4 playoff wins and huge #s in passer rating, ypa, and low turnover numbers overwhelmed a terrible yards/TDs showing.

3. Manning - Hurt badly by the poor playoff record, but his record-breaking season last year helped push his career stats way up to make him a clse 3rd.

4. Bulger - Jesus, I never realized how good his per game stats are. Since injuries don't penalize you in these rankings, he gets pushed way up by astronomical per game yardage and TD averages.

5. McNabb - 2nd only to Brady in the playoff wins department helps make up for uneven stats. Has some great years and some mediocre ones, but low turnovers and good per game yardage this year helped.

6. Culpepper - Had some truly explosive seasons but lack of overall playoff success and God-awful per game numbers from '05 hurt him.

7. Palmer - Great '05 numbers, but career averages are as of yet just good, not great, and no playoff wins hurts.

8. Delhomme - Good playoff wins, and some solid stats, but his #s overall are pedestrian in all categories. Falls behind the big guns inn yards and TDs, but also doesn't dazzle in the ypa or passer rating categories.

9. Hasselbeck - Recent numbers boost his stock, career per game averages are not great. Recent playoff success also bolsters him, he'd likely have been 11th or 12th on this list going into this year. What that illustrates is that he's really stepped it up in '05 and is primed to move higher.

10. Brees - Not spectacular in any category - just solid.

11. Vick - If rushing stats had more to do with it, he'd be higher, but has had little playoff success and his passing numbers per game are by far the lowest of this group, even far below Ben's.

Again, this is just a fun exercise, I don't think this accurately depicts who the best QBs are, but it's something to look at.

Can you tell me what your QB rankings would be if you used your system after the 1985 season? Would you favor Jim McMahon over Dan Marino?

 

[SoFresh&SoClean]

No one is ever going to convince me that Ben is a Top 3 QB.

Gee never would have guess. Nice to see such an open mind.

I'll listen, but thats like saying someone can convince you the world is flat. Just cause someone won't be able to convince me, doesn't mean I am not open minded.

Ok how about this question then: Do you feel that it is possible for you consider Ben a top 3 qb within the next 3 years?

As long as Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Carson Palmer stay in the league, Worthlessburger will sit at least 4th for some time to come.

And the Steelers will continue to beat on the Bengals.

You seem so sure...Care to make it interesting?

 

[AB in DC]

OK, done. I used per game averages for each player too, in games that player started, to extrapolate stats so as not to punish for injury or differing lengths of careers.

Can you tell me what your QB rankings would be if you used your system after the 1985 season? Would you favor Jim McMahon over Dan Marino?

You're kidding, right? Did you even read what EvilGrin wrote about his ranking system?

 

[Chaz McNulty]

And the fact that he doesn't throw as much is part of the reason why he isn't a top QB. What #2 ranked QB in the league only throws 22 times a game?  If he is the 2nd best QB in the league, why wouldn't they want the ball in his hands a lot more?  Big Ben threw as many attempts a game than Kyle Orton for pete sake. 

Looking at YPA for Ben is like looking at YPC for a backup RB.  It means nothing to me if they hardly run or throw.  Have Ben play in an offense where the defense is focussed on the passing game and he has to throw 30 times.  His YPA will never be the same as it is now.  Its pretty easy to run all game and then use the play action for a lengthy pass and then credit that YPA to Ben.

Do you watch games or pay attention to what other people say here? Look at Roethlisberger's first half numbers this season. He is far more productive, meaning that they often get the lead because of his passing and then they run the ball almost the entire second half of games at times. Roethlisberger, however, has shown that when called upon to win games with his arm, he is more than capable. And to compare him to Orton just shows how little you know about football.

Some stats to support this case further :

1st half of games : 94-154 1475 yards 11 TD/4 INT passer rating of 105.8

That's in 12 games. Those numbers, projected over a full game, then times 16 games yields :

251-411 3,934 yards 30 TD 11 INT

He also has a 115.3 rating and a 9.4 ypa when the Steelers are behind (98.6 passer rating and 8.9 ypa overall), so enough of this crap about padding his ypa stats by running play action against stacked fronts when the Steelers are leading.

I bet you if you told all 30 GM's that they could pick any QB they want for one year to lead their team (except for Brady and Manning), hardly any would even consider Big Ben.

What do you base this on ? Are you a GM ? Work in the league ? What a stupid statement. You know this for sure, huh ??? Get over yourself....

Did you notice that I said "I bet" and that I didn't say "I'm a mind reader of NFL GM's and I can tell you beyond doubt".And although I can't mind read, I would speculate that most GM's would take Carson Palmer over Big Ben in a heartbeat.

You need to read the post before you start spouting off.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

OK, done.  I used per game averages for each player too, in games that player started, to extrapolate stats so as not to punish for injury or differing lengths of careers.

Can you tell me what your QB rankings would be if you used your system after the 1985 season? Would you favor Jim McMahon over Dan Marino?

You're kidding, right? Did you even read what EvilGrin wrote about his ranking system?

Yes I did. Why do you think I'm asking the question? I think that between 1984-87 Jim McMahon won 22 games in a row as a starter, including a superbowl.

 

[Steelers4Life]

No one is ever going to convince me that Ben is a Top 3 QB.

Gee never would have guess. Nice to see such an open mind.

I'll listen, but thats like saying someone can convince you the world is flat. Just cause someone won't be able to convince me, doesn't mean I am not open minded.

Ok how about this question then: Do you feel that it is possible for you consider Ben a top 3 qb within the next 3 years?

As long as Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Carson Palmer stay in the league, Worthlessburger will sit at least 4th for some time to come.

I love Bengals fans!Palmer has a lot of talent, and he's a damn good QB. If and when the Bengals ever get a decent defense, he won't have to pass as much and his numbers won't be as huge. Of course, that's what it'll take for the Bengals to be a successful franchise.

 

[brobe4]

There is one thing for sure grading curves for quarterbacks are very diffrent from person to person. Example to follow1. Peyton Manning runs a awesome offense to watch its just fun to watch him eat up defenses when they are clicking.No one looks better running a offense then him when they are hitting on all cylinders.Then there is the pattern that can not be denied he can not respond when things are taken away and pressure has been added thus the word choker has been added by many people.Truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but one thing is for sure there are quaterbacks in this league that respond better then he does when things have been taken from them, and pressure has been added.Like Tom Brady , Big Ben , Mcnabb

 

[Spartans Rule]

Ok, giving this shot. I'll give reasons along with my rankings until I get tired of doing them.

Tier #1

1. Peyton Manning - This has been argued enough. All I'll say is that no one can dominate a football game from the QB position like he can.

2. Tom Brady - It isn't because he wins. That's a team thing. In fact, I thought Brady had his best individual season this year even though the Pats didn't go all the way.

3. Carson Palmer - Can't argue with the stats, or taking the Bengals of all teams to the playoffs.

Tier #2

4. Donovan McNabb - Kept his offense moving when there wasn't much talent around him and lit up the league when TO was there and still marginally sane.

5. Ben Roethlisberger - Discussed to death in this thread already. I'm comfortable with him here.

6. Matt Hasselbeck - Always knew he could pass, but also like his poise in these playoffs.

7. Jake Delhomme - Put in a variety of different situations over his three seasons in Carolina, and has always produced.

8. Marc Bulger - Benefits from being a Ram, but it isn't quite the team it used to be and his numbers are still excellent.

9. Brett Favre - Giving him a mulligan on 2005. Unreal rash of injuries for the Packers. His 2004 was still an elite season and I think had his team stayed intact he would have done it again.

10. Jake Plummer - A little lower than some might have him. He's good, but I don't see anything particularly special about him.

Tier #3 - the hardest tier to rank within IMO

11. Michael Vick - This year certainly hurts the "he just wins" argument. There was enough talent in Atlanta that I think any of the 2nd tier guys could have taken them to the playoffs.

12. Kurt Warner - Underrated IMO. Put up very solid numbers in NY last year and was winning, and made the Cardinals passing attack very dangerous this year.

13. Byron Leftwich - The numbers are nice, the intangibles are nicer.

14. Drew Brees - Always impressed me in college and I thought he'd turn it around eventually.

15. Trent Green - I ranted about his favorable situation somewhere else in the thread.

16. Daunte Culpepper - Very hard to rank. Lots of inconsistency in his career, even when Moss was there, and this season was just disastrous. Can't give him the benefit of the doubt right now.

17. David Carr - Horrible situation in Houston with no protection. 2004 was a glimpse of what he could do on a decent team.

18. Steve McNair - Similar situation to Favre with the team crumbling, but it's been two years since his big season and I'm less inclined to think he still has it.

Tier #4

19. Eli Manning - His nice fantasy numbers came mostly from volume. 52.8% and 6.8 Y/A with Barber, Burress, Toomer and Shockey at his disposal isn't doing a whole lot for me. He'll be very good. He isn't yet.

20. Mark Brunell - His physical skills are limited at this stage of his career, but he does a very good job of understanding his offense and playing within his limitations. I hate the term "game manager" because it's so misused, but it might fit here.

21. Drew Bledsoe - A bit of a resurgence in Dallas, but still very much an average QB IMO.

22. Chris Simms - I was not a fan of his coming out of college, but he started to win me over this season.

Tier #5 - Veteran Mediocrity

23. Aaron Brooks

24. Kerry Collins

25. Gus Frerotte

Tier #6 - All have some potential, but none have produced yet

26. Rex Grossman

27. Kyle Boller

28. Joey Harrington

29. Charlie Frye

Tier #7 - "Ouch"

30. Alex Smith - You hate to give up on a #1 overall after a year, but he showed nothing.

31. J.P. Losman - When you complete 49% of your passes and Kelly Holcomb completes 67% with the same offense, it's time to find a new career.

Unranked - Chad Pennington

Just have no idea what he's got right now. IMO he's very underrated and I'd put him in Tier 2 if he was fully healthy.

 

[AB in DC]

OK, done. I used per game averages for each player too, in games that player started, to extrapolate stats so as not to punish for injury or differing lengths of careers.

Can you tell me what your QB rankings would be if you used your system after the 1985 season? Would you favor Jim McMahon over Dan Marino?

You're kidding, right? Did you even read what EvilGrin wrote about his ranking system?

Yes I did. Why do you think I'm asking the question? I think that between 1984-87 Jim McMahon won 22 games in a row as a starter, including a superbowl.

a) I think you're wrong, b) You asked about 1985, not 1987.

c) Through 1985, Dan Marino had the same number of playoff wins (3) as McMahon did. The Dolphins were 38-10 over the previous three years, Bears 33-15.

 

[Odogs]

No one is ever going to convince me that Ben is a Top 3 QB.

Gee never would have guess. Nice to see such an open mind.

I'll listen, but thats like saying someone can convince you the world is flat. Just cause someone won't be able to convince me, doesn't mean I am not open minded.

Ok how about this question then: Do you feel that it is possible for you consider Ben a top 3 qb within the next 3 years?

As long as Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, and Carson Palmer stay in the league, Worthlessburger will sit at least 4th for some time to come.

And the Steelers will continue to beat on the Bengals.

You seem so sure...Care to make it interesting?

Sorry, I'm not a fan of internet bets. I will agree that those are the top four QB's, I guess we'll see what the order is over the next year or two.