Rankings the 32 starting NFL QBs (1 Viewer)

[jwvdcw]

Heres the deal: You are going to own an NFL team for one year. You do not care at all about anything after that year. Your first player pickup in a QB, and all of them have been offered to you at the exact same salary. You can build the rest of your team however you want around that QB. How do you rank the 32 starting NFL QBs? Heres my list:

Tier #1

1. Tom Brady: I've discussed Brady/Manning to death. Check out this thread for some of my thoughts.

2. Big Ben: I expect to take some criticism here, but honestly what more could a QB do in his first two years?

3. P Manning: See the thread I linked to for Brady.

Tier #2

4. McNabb: A very complete QB imho. Has no real weakness. Can run, can throw, is well liked in the locker room, has won consistently and just missed out on winning a SB.

5. Vick: We've been through this before, and I don't feel like arguing it anymore. Yes, I realize that he sucks as a passer and that his stats aren't good. I don't think it matters. I think hes the one QB that could be one of the worst ranked passers in the NFL and still be the MVP. Hes that special. Without him, they went 2-10 two years ago(and 0-1 this year). And then last year he came back and took that 2-10 team to a 3-1 record! Yes, that same terrible 2-10 team went 3-1 with him...and get this: Those 4 games in which he played were the Falcons hardest stretch of games last year!

6. Carson Palmer: Having CJ surely helps a lot, but its hard to argue with his results so far.

7. Daunte Culpepper: Last offseason I did a list like this and I ranked him at #7. Nearly everyone jumped all over me for disrespecting him. I maintained that he was overrated due to having played with Moss. I think I was proven correct, as I don't think many people will say I'm ranking him too low anymore.

Tier #3

8. Jake Plummer: Even before this year, I thought he was underrated. Led Arizona to a playoff win, led the Broncos to the conference title, had a great statistical year.

9.Matt Hasselbeck: Has a great o-line, which surely helps, but has put up numbers regardless of who his WRs are. A bit underrated imo.

10. Jake Delhomme: Has quietly put up some great playoff numbers.

11. Marc Bulger: Before this season I would've said that hes overrated due to having such a great surrounding cast, but we saw how they fell apart without him.

12. Byron Leftwich: Seems to have all of the intangibles.

13. Drew Brees: Tough guy to rank. Don't ever see him as a superstar, but his accuracy will make him a very good QB for a long time imo.

14. Brett Favre: The hardest guy on this list to rank imo. Really could see an arguement for moving him way up or way down from this spot.

15. Trent Green: Wonder what he'd do with better WRs. Does have a great o-line though.

Tier #4

16. E Manning: A bit overrated imo. Still too young. Would rank much higher if this wasn't just for one year.

17. S McNair: Like Favre, its really tough to rank him so low.

18. A Brooks: Everyone is down on him right now, but hes still had some pretty impressive years. Could greatly benefit from a fresh start imo.

19. C Pennington: I'm assuming full health.

20. K Collins: Still not that old and his resume isn't as bad as some may think.

Tier #5

eh....didn't really feel like making a distinction between guys like Harrington and Carr and M Brunell. Teams without QBs already listed would think of QB as a weakness on their team for next year imho.

 

[Slinger]

Good read. Change the title to "Top 20 QB's" though.

 

[Garts]

I think Palmer should be in Tier #1. He is THAT good.

 

[jimweldy]

I'd put Palmer and McNabb in Tier 1. I can't see putting Roethlisberger in Tier 1. He plays great in Pittburgh's offense, but put any of a number of other good QBs in the same offense, and they probably put up similar numbers. I'd put him near the top of the Tier 2 bin.

 

[Death and Taxes]

Tier #2

4. McNabb: A very complete QB imho. Has no real weakness. Can run, can throw, is well liked in the locker room, has won consistently and just missed out on winning a SB.

5. Vick: We've been through this before, and I don't feel like arguing it anymore. Yes, I realize that he sucks as a passer and that his stats aren't good. I don't think it matters. I think hes the one QB that could be one of the worst ranked passers in the NFL and still be the MVP. Hes that special. Without him, they went 2-10 two years ago(and 0-1 this year). And then last year he came back and took that 2-10 team to a 3-1 record! Yes, that same terrible 2-10 team went 3-1 with him...and get this: Those 4 games in which he played were the Falcons hardest stretch of games last year!

I am an Eagles fan and have come to realize that we can win a SB with McNabb but he does have weaknesses. He can be very inaccurate at times. Puts ups great numbers versus lesser opponents but seems to choke in big games. He is also reluctant to scramble which is one of his strengths. I am not saying all over the place like Vick but his scrambling ability keeps defenses honest. Like most successful QBs (measured by championships not stats) McNabb needs a succesful running game especially now with out T.O. The Eagles are making it too easy to defense the short passing game and team are just blitzing them. He ranking is fairly accurate though when you measure him up against what is out there.Vick is still a one trick pony with a running game to bail him out. He has not developed his passing game to the point where he can keep a defense honest. Reminds of the early McNabb and Cunningham Eras. Will make some big plays but a good defense will more than likely shut Vick down in the playoffs at some point. Running around in the NFL to an extreme just does not work if you want to win a champioship. Until he can pass the ball he is just good for marketing #7 jerseys. He is way overrated.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).You really over rate Big Ben. He is in the perfect situation for a young QB. He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes. A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

 

[mcintyre1]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben. He is in the perfect situation for a young QB. He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes. A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

Seriously, what does Roethlisberger have to accomplish to get some respect as a QB? He's accurate, has a strong arm, is more mobile than Manning, obviously inspires confidence in his teammates, and guns his way through the playoffs to a SB in his second year.

 

[jwvdcw]

FWIW the Steelers were 6-10 the year before Big Ben. They went 15-1 in his first year and made the super bowl in his second year.

 

[jwvdcw]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben. He is in the perfect situation for a young QB. He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes. A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

Which of these statements do you disagree with:-Marvin Harrison is better than Hines Ward

-Edge is way better than any RB currently on the Steelers

-R Wayne is way better than Randel El

-The Colts D gaev up 247 points this year, while the Steelers D gave up 258. Addittionally, Indy forced more turnovers than Pitt did this year.

-Big Ben has taken the Steelers to the super bowl, while Manning was eliminated in his first playoff game.

 

[AnonymousBob]

Vick is still a one trick pony with a running game to bail him out. He has not developed his passing game to the point where he can keep a defense honest. Reminds of the early McNabb and Cunningham Eras. Will make some big plays but a good defense will more than likely shut Vick down in the playoffs at some point. Running around in the NFL to an extreme just does not work if you want to win a champioship. Until he can pass the ball he is just good for marketing #7 jerseys. He is way overrated.

Vick may be a one trick pony but what a trick it is. Since when has winning become overrated?

 

[Cookiemonster]

FWIW the Steelers were 6-10 the year before Big Ben. They went 15-1 in his first year and made the super bowl in his second year.

Let's see who can guess the Steelers' record without him starting over the last two years...

 

[Spartans Rule]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben. He is in the perfect situation for a young QB. He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes. A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

If all Baltimore was asking Trent Dilfer to do was not make mistakes, then he was a huge failure. 11 picks in 225 attempts in 2000.

Of course, that's not what Baltimore wanted. That's not what ANY team asks its QB to do, and it's mind-boggling that so many fans believe that nonsense. What the Ravens did get from Dilfer was a QB who could throw the ball downfield accurately enough to punish a defense that tried to load the box, as he did in the Super Bowl with that quick strike to Stokley. Even the most conservative team throws 40% of the time and even the most punishing ground attack will get stuffed if the QB can't make accurate passes. It takes a hell of a lot more to be good at the position than avoiding miscues.

As for Roethlisberger, I don't care how favorable the situation, 8.9 YPA is pretty damn good. In fact, it's all gravy, since all they really need him to do is not fumble or throw a pick.

 

[Spartans Rule]

The above being said, Roethlisberger is the ranking most out of whack on a pretty solid list IMO. There's no way I can rank him ahead of Manning.

 

[Cookiemonster]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

If all Baltimore was asking Trent Dilfer to do was not make mistakes, then he was a huge failure. 11 picks in 225 attempts in 2000.

Of course, that's not what Baltimore wanted. That's not what ANY team asks its QB to do, and it's mind-boggling that so many fans believe that nonsense. What the Ravens did get from Dilfer was a QB who could throw the ball downfield accurately enough to punish a defense that tried to load the box, as he did in the Super Bowl with that quick strike to Stokley. Even the most conservative team throws 40% of the time and even the most punishing ground attack will get stuffed if the QB can't make accurate passes. It takes a hell of a lot more to be good at the position than avoiding miscues.

As for Roethlisberger, I don't care how favorable the situation, 8.9 YPA is pretty damn good. In fact, it's all gravy, since all they really need him to do is not fumble or throw a pick.

In the playoffs... Pittsburgh has passed 60% to only 40% runs. You like apples?

 

[djcolts]

Brady is the clear-cut #1 QB. Manning for me is hard to rank now - but I think there is a way to do it:Manning if he insists on being an offensive coordinator on the field - below Brady, Big Ben and Carson Palmer. It doesn't work in the playoffs - this season completely proves that to me. If Manning was reigned in and forced to try to run the ball sometimes by his coaches - I think he'd be #2. But, not at this point - I'll put him at #4. Big Ben #2, Palmer (if he makes a full recovery) #3.

 

[Spartans Rule]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

If all Baltimore was asking Trent Dilfer to do was not make mistakes, then he was a huge failure. 11 picks in 225 attempts in 2000.

Of course, that's not what Baltimore wanted. That's not what ANY team asks its QB to do, and it's mind-boggling that so many fans believe that nonsense. What the Ravens did get from Dilfer was a QB who could throw the ball downfield accurately enough to punish a defense that tried to load the box, as he did in the Super Bowl with that quick strike to Stokley. Even the most conservative team throws 40% of the time and even the most punishing ground attack will get stuffed if the QB can't make accurate passes. It takes a hell of a lot more to be good at the position than avoiding miscues.

As for Roethlisberger, I don't care how favorable the situation, 8.9 YPA is pretty damn good. In fact, it's all gravy, since all they really need him to do is not fumble or throw a pick.

In the playoffs... Pittsburgh has passed 60% to only 40% runs. You like apples?

I like apples. I do not like made-up statistics.Vs. Cincinnati - 34 rushes, 21 passes

Vs. Indianapolis - 42 rushes, 24 passes

Vs. Denver - 33 rushes, 29 passes

Total - 109 rushes, 74 passes

That works out to 59.5% running and 40.5% passing.

 

[Cookiemonster]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

If all Baltimore was asking Trent Dilfer to do was not make mistakes, then he was a huge failure. 11 picks in 225 attempts in 2000.

Of course, that's not what Baltimore wanted. That's not what ANY team asks its QB to do, and it's mind-boggling that so many fans believe that nonsense. What the Ravens did get from Dilfer was a QB who could throw the ball downfield accurately enough to punish a defense that tried to load the box, as he did in the Super Bowl with that quick strike to Stokley. Even the most conservative team throws 40% of the time and even the most punishing ground attack will get stuffed if the QB can't make accurate passes. It takes a hell of a lot more to be good at the position than avoiding miscues.

As for Roethlisberger, I don't care how favorable the situation, 8.9 YPA is pretty damn good. In fact, it's all gravy, since all they really need him to do is not fumble or throw a pick.

In the playoffs... Pittsburgh has passed 60% to only 40% runs. You like apples?

I like apples. I do not like made-up statistics.Vs. Cincinnati - 34 rushes, 21 passes

Vs. Indianapolis - 42 rushes, 24 passes

Vs. Denver - 33 rushes, 29 passes

Total - 109 rushes, 74 passes

That works out to 59.5% running and 40.5% passing.

Very well. ESPN reported this on one of their shows yesterday. Guess I should check for myself before taking their word for it.BTW, my response was directed to the original post, not yours.

 

[Spartans Rule]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

If all Baltimore was asking Trent Dilfer to do was not make mistakes, then he was a huge failure. 11 picks in 225 attempts in 2000.

Of course, that's not what Baltimore wanted. That's not what ANY team asks its QB to do, and it's mind-boggling that so many fans believe that nonsense. What the Ravens did get from Dilfer was a QB who could throw the ball downfield accurately enough to punish a defense that tried to load the box, as he did in the Super Bowl with that quick strike to Stokley. Even the most conservative team throws 40% of the time and even the most punishing ground attack will get stuffed if the QB can't make accurate passes. It takes a hell of a lot more to be good at the position than avoiding miscues.

As for Roethlisberger, I don't care how favorable the situation, 8.9 YPA is pretty damn good. In fact, it's all gravy, since all they really need him to do is not fumble or throw a pick.

In the playoffs... Pittsburgh has passed 60% to only 40% runs. You like apples?

I like apples. I do not like made-up statistics.Vs. Cincinnati - 34 rushes, 21 passes

Vs. Indianapolis - 42 rushes, 24 passes

Vs. Denver - 33 rushes, 29 passes

Total - 109 rushes, 74 passes

That works out to 59.5% running and 40.5% passing.

Very well. ESPN reported this on one of their shows yesterday. Guess I should check for myself before taking their word for it.BTW, my response was directed to the original post, not yours.

Ok, that makes sense. I thought the stat was a little odd not to double-check. Pittsburgh has been ahead too often to be throwing that much. But to Big Ben's credit, they've been ahead because of his arm.

 

[Odogs]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

If all Baltimore was asking Trent Dilfer to do was not make mistakes, then he was a huge failure. 11 picks in 225 attempts in 2000.

Of course, that's not what Baltimore wanted. That's not what ANY team asks its QB to do, and it's mind-boggling that so many fans believe that nonsense. What the Ravens did get from Dilfer was a QB who could throw the ball downfield accurately enough to punish a defense that tried to load the box, as he did in the Super Bowl with that quick strike to Stokley. Even the most conservative team throws 40% of the time and even the most punishing ground attack will get stuffed if the QB can't make accurate passes. It takes a hell of a lot more to be good at the position than avoiding miscues.

As for Roethlisberger, I don't care how favorable the situation, 8.9 YPA is pretty damn good. In fact, it's all gravy, since all they really need him to do is not fumble or throw a pick.

In the playoffs... Pittsburgh has passed 60% to only 40% runs. You like apples?

I like apples. I do not like made-up statistics.Vs. Cincinnati - 34 rushes, 21 passes

Vs. Indianapolis - 42 rushes, 24 passes

Vs. Denver - 33 rushes, 29 passes

Total - 109 rushes, 74 passes

That works out to 59.5% running and 40.5% passing.

Very well. ESPN reported this on one of their shows yesterday. Guess I should check for myself before taking their word for it.BTW, my response was directed to the original post, not yours.

I didn't see it, but I would bet they were talking about the first half of playoff games.

 

[greendevils]

They were talking about the first half of the football games in the playoffs. I live in Pittsburgh, and have watch Big Ben play in every game the past two years. If you have watched the games and have seen all the things that he has done SO right, you know that he is going to be one of those special players. The way he feels pressure and moves in the pocket, I have never seen the likes. Very accurate on the move and in the pocket, and plays even better under pressure. In the next 5 years I have to believe that Big Ben will get the reputation that he is one of the best of all time and the QB most people compare him too will be John Elway.

 

[boubucarow]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben. He is in the perfect situation for a young QB. He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes. A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

If all Baltimore was asking Trent Dilfer to do was not make mistakes, then he was a huge failure. 11 picks in 225 attempts in 2000.

Of course, that's not what Baltimore wanted. That's not what ANY team asks its QB to do, and it's mind-boggling that so many fans believe that nonsense. What the Ravens did get from Dilfer was a QB who could throw the ball downfield accurately enough to punish a defense that tried to load the box, as he did in the Super Bowl with that quick strike to Stokley. Even the most conservative team throws 40% of the time and even the most punishing ground attack will get stuffed if the QB can't make accurate passes. It takes a hell of a lot more to be good at the position than avoiding miscues.

As for Roethlisberger, I don't care how favorable the situation, 8.9 YPA is pretty damn good. In fact, it's all gravy, since all they really need him to do is not fumble or throw a pick.

In the playoffs... Pittsburgh has passed 60% to only 40% runs. You like apples?

I like apples. I do not like made-up statistics.Vs. Cincinnati - 34 rushes, 21 passes

Vs. Indianapolis - 42 rushes, 24 passes

Vs. Denver - 33 rushes, 29 passes

Total - 109 rushes, 74 passes

That works out to 59.5% running and 40.5% passing.

Very well. ESPN reported this on one of their shows yesterday. Guess I should check for myself before taking their word for it.BTW, my response was directed to the original post, not yours.

Have you watched the games? The Steelers have thrown the ball more than they have run the ball in the first halfs. He put the Steelers on top of the Colts with pass heavy drives to begin the game. He threw for 172 of his 197 yards in the first half before Cowher shut it down with the lead. He completed six third down passes out of seven opportunities, five of the conversions being on 3rd and 7+ against the Broncos in the first half. He threw for 180 yards in the first half of that game. The pass/run ratios in the first half of those games favored the pass. Something like 40 passes to 24 runs overall (give me a +/- 1 or 2 there).I am not saying he is better than Manning, but Ben is the MVP of this Steeler playoff run and the Steelers have depended on him heavily.

 

[thesurfshop19]

Another great list!I'd personally break up tier 1 into 2 tiers ... Brady-Ben in tier 1 and Palmer-Manning in tier 2.I'm happy to see that Plummer's ranked pretty high here. Even most Denver fans still wouldn't put him there, despite the fact that the team's made the playoffs in 3 straight years with Plummer.

 

[dgreen]

I didn't put a whole of thought into this and some halfway decent arguments could change my mind on some guys. While I assume each to be healthy, I do take past injuries into account. In other words, I assume each injured QB will recover, but I don't necessarily assume they'll return fully to pre-injury form.

Tier 1:

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Tier 2:

Donovan McNabb

Carson Palmer

Matt Hasselbeck

Ben Roethlisberger

Tier 3:

Mike Vick

Jake Delhomme

Marc Bulger

Tier 4:

Daunte Culpepper

Byron Leftwich

Jake Plummer

Drew Brees

Tier 5:

Trent Green

Steve McNair

Eli Manning

Brett Favre

Tier 6:

Chris Simms

Aaron Brooks

David Carr

Mark Brunell

Chad Pennington

Tier 7:

Kurt Warner

Rex Grossman

Drew Bledsoe

Tier 8:

Kerry Collins

Kyle Boller

Gus Frerotte

Charlie Frye

Tier 9:

Alex Smith

J.P. Losman

Joey Harrington

 

[Cookiemonster]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

If all Baltimore was asking Trent Dilfer to do was not make mistakes, then he was a huge failure. 11 picks in 225 attempts in 2000.

Of course, that's not what Baltimore wanted. That's not what ANY team asks its QB to do, and it's mind-boggling that so many fans believe that nonsense. What the Ravens did get from Dilfer was a QB who could throw the ball downfield accurately enough to punish a defense that tried to load the box, as he did in the Super Bowl with that quick strike to Stokley. Even the most conservative team throws 40% of the time and even the most punishing ground attack will get stuffed if the QB can't make accurate passes. It takes a hell of a lot more to be good at the position than avoiding miscues.

As for Roethlisberger, I don't care how favorable the situation, 8.9 YPA is pretty damn good. In fact, it's all gravy, since all they really need him to do is not fumble or throw a pick.

In the playoffs... Pittsburgh has passed 60% to only 40% runs. You like apples?

I like apples. I do not like made-up statistics.Vs. Cincinnati - 34 rushes, 21 passes

Vs. Indianapolis - 42 rushes, 24 passes

Vs. Denver - 33 rushes, 29 passes

Total - 109 rushes, 74 passes

That works out to 59.5% running and 40.5% passing.

Very well. ESPN reported this on one of their shows yesterday. Guess I should check for myself before taking their word for it.BTW, my response was directed to the original post, not yours.

Have you watched the games? The Steelers have thrown the ball more than they have run the ball in the first halfs. He put the Steelers on top of the Colts with pass heavy drives to begin the game. He threw for 172 of his 197 yards in the first half before Cowher shut it down with the lead. He completed six third down passes out of seven opportunities, five of the conversions being on 3rd and 7+ against the Broncos in the first half. He threw for 180 yards in the first half of that game. The pass/run ratios in the first half of those games favored the pass. Something like 40 passes to 24 runs overall (give me a +/- 1 or 2 there).I am not saying he is better than Manning, but Ben is the MVP of this Steeler playoff run and the Steelers have depended on him heavily.

A little digging, and that's exactly what it was. A sheet full of tally marks reviewing the play-by-play of Pitts playoff games showed almost exactly 60% pass vs. 40% rush in the first half. That's when they've established their leads and gone run heavy. That also explains a little more about their dismal ypc ave. They already had the lead and ran the ball a ton when the D knew they'd be running.

 

[BigTex]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben. He is in the perfect situation for a young QB. He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes. A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

 

[boubucarow]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben. He is in the perfect situation for a young QB. He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes. A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

Again, Ben is not in the same situation as Trent Dilfer. Pittsburgh is not a run run run team until the second half of most games. You haven't seen Ben play if you think he can't take over games. Just because he will allow the running game to take over when it is working doesn't make him less of a QB.Last year, he was more of a Trent Dilfer don't make mistakes type. This year, he wins the games.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

You really over rate Big Ben. He is in the perfect situation for a young QB. He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes. A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

God Almighty - how long am I going to have to read this? What is it going to take? Are the Steelers going to have to start letting Ben put it up 40 times a game before the last few stop with this absurd Dilfer comparison? The Ravens defense of 2000 was one of the best ever. This year's Steelers defense wasn't even #1 in the NFL. Roethlisberger is NOT simply asked not to make mistakes. He has been the primary reason the Steelers are where they are right now. He is their MVP (even more so than Ward and Polamalu) - could you say that about Dilfer on those Ravens and not get laughed out of the room?

 

[dickey moe]

If Big Ben is not in Tier 1, he's definitely in the upper echelon of Tier 2.:splittinghairs:

 

[Spartans Rule]

Last year, he was more of a Trent Dilfer don't make mistakes type.

 

[BigTex]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

Again, Ben is not in the same situation as Trent Dilfer. Pittsburgh is not a run run run team until the second half of most games. You haven't seen Ben play if you think he can't take over games. Just because he will allow the running game to take over when it is working doesn't make him less of a QB.Last year, he was more of a Trent Dilfer don't make mistakes type. This year, he wins the games.

This year Big Ben has played 12 games (during the regular season).9 ints

20 TDs (including 3 rushing)

Yds 2385

He’s only completed more than 18 passes once in those games.

He’s only thrown for more than 200 yards or more, six times.

I believe Ben will be a very good QB, but I've yet to see why he'd be a Tier 1. That's all I'm suggesting.

I guess if I had to ask a question, What constitute a Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, etc? Game won vs lost? # of TDs? #of Yds. There should be some kind of standard. Other than objective/subjective thoughts, right?

edit to add: He's playing like a champ in the playoffs

Oh and I don't agree with the Dilfer comparison at all, just everthing else that was mentioned. I actually like Ben, last year I posted one of the first threads on how good he looks. I would search for it but I'm being lazy today.

Oh and If I don't hear or read anything Vick ever in my life it'll be too soon. Vick = Tier 4.

 

[kevinray]

I live in Pittsburgh also, and have seen every one of Ben's games. With the way he has played, it has gotten to the point where when he throws the ball my buddies and I are not thinking, "I hope this is a completion", its "I wonder which reciever will catch this one". This guy is special. Now to be fair, I would not yet rank him over Manning. In fact I dont rank anybody over Manning. I believe the top tier should go Manning, Brady, Ben.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

Again, Ben is not in the same situation as Trent Dilfer. Pittsburgh is not a run run run team until the second half of most games. You haven't seen Ben play if you think he can't take over games. Just because he will allow the running game to take over when it is working doesn't make him less of a QB.Last year, he was more of a Trent Dilfer don't make mistakes type. This year, he wins the games.

This year Big Ben has played 12 games (during the regular season).9 ints

20 TDs (including 3 rushing)

Yds 2385

He’s only completed more than 18 passes once in those games.

He’s only thrown for more than 200 yards or more, six times.

I believe Ben will be a very good QB, but I've yet to see why he'd be a Tier 1. That's all I'm suggesting.

I guess if I had to ask a question, What constitute a Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, etc? Game won vs lost? # of TDs? #of Yds. There should be some kind of standard. Other than objective/subjective thoughts, right?

edit to add: He's playing like a champ in the playoffs

Personally, I could care less about yards and TDs. If a team has a stellar running attack, the QB isn't going to have the same numbers as the QB on a team with no running game that puts the ball up 40-50 times a game. I look at W-L first, then as a sub-context : fewest turnovers, completion percentage, 3rd down passing, yards per attempt, and passer rating. Those stats give you a much better picture of the level of QB play, because it's based on efficiency rather than simply aggregate numbers, which are so dependent on opportunity.As an example : Joe Montana, widely considered the greatest QB of all time, only finished in the top 3 in the NFL in passing yards TWICE in a 15 year career. The four years he won the Super Bowl, he was ranked 4th twice, 8th once, and 9th once among quarterbacks in terms of fantasy points. Bottom line : stats are nice, but winning games and making clutch throws is what separates the truly great QBs from the simply prolific ones.

 

[hutchins929]

if I want a Super Bowl in that season than this would be my listTom BradyCarson PalmerPeyton ManningBen RoethlisbergerMatt HasselbeckJake DelhommeDonovan McNabbByron LeftwichMike VickMarc BulgerDrew BreesEli ManningJake PlummerTrent GreenDaunte CulpepperMark BrunellBrett FavreSteve McNairChris SimmsAaron BrooksRex GrossmanKurt WarnerChad PenningtonJoey HarringtonDavid CarrKyle BollerDrew BledsoeKerry CollinsGus FrerotteAlex SmithJ.P. LosmanIf it was the same sinario but for the future and not for only one season this would be my list.Carson PalmerTom BradyPeyton ManningBen RoethlisbergerMike VickEli ManningByron LeftwichMatt LeinartMatt HasselbeckDrew BreesVince YoungJake DelhommeDonovan McNabbChris SimmsRex GrossmanMarc BulgerDaunte CulpepperJake PlummerJoey HarringtonDavid CarrChad PenningtonKyle BollerAlex SmithMark BrunellAaron BrooksBrett FavreTrent GreenSteve McNairKerry CollinsGus FrerotteKurt WarnerDrew Bledsoe

 

[BigTex]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

Again, Ben is not in the same situation as Trent Dilfer. Pittsburgh is not a run run run team until the second half of most games. You haven't seen Ben play if you think he can't take over games. Just because he will allow the running game to take over when it is working doesn't make him less of a QB.Last year, he was more of a Trent Dilfer don't make mistakes type. This year, he wins the games.

This year Big Ben has played 12 games (during the regular season).9 ints

20 TDs (including 3 rushing)

Yds 2385

He’s only completed more than 18 passes once in those games.

He’s only thrown for more than 200 yards or more, six times.

I believe Ben will be a very good QB, but I've yet to see why he'd be a Tier 1. That's all I'm suggesting.

I guess if I had to ask a question, What constitute a Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, etc? Game won vs lost? # of TDs? #of Yds. There should be some kind of standard. Other than objective/subjective thoughts, right?

edit to add: He's playing like a champ in the playoffs

Personally, I could care less about yards and TDs. If a team has a stellar running attack, the QB isn't going to have the same numbers as the QB on a team with no running game that puts the ball up 40-50 times a game. I look at W-L first, then as a sub-context : fewest turnovers, completion percentage, 3rd down passing, yards per attempt, and passer rating. Those stats give you a much better picture of the level of QB play, because it's based on efficiency rather than simply aggregate numbers, which are so dependent on opportunity.As an example : Joe Montana, widely considered the greatest QB of all time, only finished in the top 3 in the NFL in passing yards TWICE in a 15 year career. The four years he won the Super Bowl, he was ranked 4th twice, 8th once, and 9th once among quarterbacks in terms of fantasy points. Bottom line : stats are nice, but winning games and making clutch throws is what separates the truly great QBs from the simply prolific ones.

Again

I guess if I had to ask a question, What constitute a Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, etc? Game won vs lost? # of TDs? #of Yds. There should be some kind of standard. Other than objective/subjective thoughts, right?

My point, unless there is a stanard as what constitutes what a Tier is, a valid arguments can be made by anyone to support their reasoning. You Sir have made a valid argument, so have I.

 

[MarshallRob]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

If all Baltimore was asking Trent Dilfer to do was not make mistakes, then he was a huge failure. 11 picks in 225 attempts in 2000.

Of course, that's not what Baltimore wanted. That's not what ANY team asks its QB to do, and it's mind-boggling that so many fans believe that nonsense. What the Ravens did get from Dilfer was a QB who could throw the ball downfield accurately enough to punish a defense that tried to load the box, as he did in the Super Bowl with that quick strike to Stokley. Even the most conservative team throws 40% of the time and even the most punishing ground attack will get stuffed if the QB can't make accurate passes. It takes a hell of a lot more to be good at the position than avoiding miscues.

As for Roethlisberger, I don't care how favorable the situation, 8.9 YPA is pretty damn good. In fact, it's all gravy, since all they really need him to do is not fumble or throw a pick.

This is an interesting analysis. Dilfer has (or had) a strong arm but I wouldn't consider him an accurate downfield passer by any means. A high percentage of his passes have gone for INT's including the 2000 season as you point out. He is capable of making a big play and I think it's acceptable to sacrifice some accuracy at the QB position if you get enough big plays to make up for it. Dilfer made a fantastic slant throw to Sharpe in the AFC title game that Sharpe took the house for 96 yards when the Raiders stupidly blitzed on third-and-long. That play just killed the Raiders. The Stokely TD was a huge play in the Super Bowl, but for the most part Dilfer was really off-target in the first half and missed several wide open receivers (Sharpe and Ismail if I recall) for what should have been big plays. Baltimore was up 10-0 at halftime but it should have been at least 20-0 or 24-0. His inaccuracy let the Giants hang around longer then they should have. What Dilfer had was an all-time great defense that minimized the impact of his mistakes.Big Ben is already more impressive in 2 years than Dilfer has ever been at any time in his career and I don't see how they are comparable.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

Again, Ben is not in the same situation as Trent Dilfer. Pittsburgh is not a run run run team until the second half of most games. You haven't seen Ben play if you think he can't take over games. Just because he will allow the running game to take over when it is working doesn't make him less of a QB.Last year, he was more of a Trent Dilfer don't make mistakes type. This year, he wins the games.

This year Big Ben has played 12 games (during the regular season).9 ints

20 TDs (including 3 rushing)

Yds 2385

He’s only completed more than 18 passes once in those games.

He’s only thrown for more than 200 yards or more, six times.

I believe Ben will be a very good QB, but I've yet to see why he'd be a Tier 1. That's all I'm suggesting.

I guess if I had to ask a question, What constitute a Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, etc? Game won vs lost? # of TDs? #of Yds. There should be some kind of standard. Other than objective/subjective thoughts, right?

edit to add: He's playing like a champ in the playoffs

Personally, I could care less about yards and TDs. If a team has a stellar running attack, the QB isn't going to have the same numbers as the QB on a team with no running game that puts the ball up 40-50 times a game. I look at W-L first, then as a sub-context : fewest turnovers, completion percentage, 3rd down passing, yards per attempt, and passer rating. Those stats give you a much better picture of the level of QB play, because it's based on efficiency rather than simply aggregate numbers, which are so dependent on opportunity.As an example : Joe Montana, widely considered the greatest QB of all time, only finished in the top 3 in the NFL in passing yards TWICE in a 15 year career. The four years he won the Super Bowl, he was ranked 4th twice, 8th once, and 9th once among quarterbacks in terms of fantasy points. Bottom line : stats are nice, but winning games and making clutch throws is what separates the truly great QBs from the simply prolific ones.

Again

I guess if I had to ask a question, What constitute a Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, etc? Game won vs lost? # of TDs? #of Yds. There should be some kind of standard. Other than objective/subjective thoughts, right?

My point, unless there is a stanard as what constitutes what a Tier is, a valid arguments can be made by anyone to support their reasoning. You Sir have made a valid argument, so have I.

Understood. I wasn't going to break it down with hard numbers, but what I am saying is that my tiers would be based on winning percentage, fewest turnovers, completion percentage, 3rd down passing, yards per attempt, and passer rating. Yards and TDs would be after all that.

 

[suchislife]

if I want a Super Bowl in that season than this would be my listTom BradyCarson PalmerPeyton Manning

So at what point do you expect PManning to start playing well in the post season to get you to the SB? If you're picking QB's to win you a SB, PManning has shown no sign of being capable. And you can save all of the "supporting cast", "plays in the AFC", etc arguements. Look 'em up, his QB stats are not the same in the post season as they are in the regular season.And for ppl to put McNabb & Vick anywhere *near* each other in *QB* ranking is laughable, imo.Carry on...

 

[jurb26]

Tom BradyBen RoethlisbergerPeyton ManningDonovan McNabbCarson PalmerMatt HasselbeckDrew BreesMarc BulgerJake PlummerMike VickEli ManningByron LeftwichTrent GreenJake DelhommeDaunte CulpepperMark BrunellBrett FavreSteve McNairChris SimmsAaron BrooksRex GrossmanKerry CollinsChad PenningtonJoey HarringtonDavid CarrKyle BollerDrew BledsoeKurt WarnerGus FrerotteJ.P. LosmanAlex Smith

 

[Assani Fisher]

Just curious as to everyone's thoughts on this...Taking QB totally out of the equation which team has more talent: Indy or Pit?I believe that it is Indy...their D ranked higher this year, and they have way more talent on O.And yet Ben has Pitt in the SB.

 

[-OZ-]

 

[BigTex]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

Again, Ben is not in the same situation as Trent Dilfer. Pittsburgh is not a run run run team until the second half of most games. You haven't seen Ben play if you think he can't take over games. Just because he will allow the running game to take over when it is working doesn't make him less of a QB.Last year, he was more of a Trent Dilfer don't make mistakes type. This year, he wins the games.

This year Big Ben has played 12 games (during the regular season).9 ints

20 TDs (including 3 rushing)

Yds 2385

He’s only completed more than 18 passes once in those games.

He’s only thrown for more than 200 yards or more, six times.

I believe Ben will be a very good QB, but I've yet to see why he'd be a Tier 1. That's all I'm suggesting.

I guess if I had to ask a question, What constitute a Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, etc? Game won vs lost? # of TDs? #of Yds. There should be some kind of standard. Other than objective/subjective thoughts, right?

edit to add: He's playing like a champ in the playoffs

Personally, I could care less about yards and TDs. If a team has a stellar running attack, the QB isn't going to have the same numbers as the QB on a team with no running game that puts the ball up 40-50 times a game. I look at W-L first, then as a sub-context : fewest turnovers, completion percentage, 3rd down passing, yards per attempt, and passer rating. Those stats give you a much better picture of the level of QB play, because it's based on efficiency rather than simply aggregate numbers, which are so dependent on opportunity.As an example : Joe Montana, widely considered the greatest QB of all time, only finished in the top 3 in the NFL in passing yards TWICE in a 15 year career. The four years he won the Super Bowl, he was ranked 4th twice, 8th once, and 9th once among quarterbacks in terms of fantasy points. Bottom line : stats are nice, but winning games and making clutch throws is what separates the truly great QBs from the simply prolific ones.

Again

I guess if I had to ask a question, What constitute a Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3, etc? Game won vs lost? # of TDs? #of Yds. There should be some kind of standard. Other than objective/subjective thoughts, right?

My point, unless there is a stanard as what constitutes what a Tier is, a valid arguments can be made by anyone to support their reasoning. You Sir have made a valid argument, so have I.

Understood. I wasn't going to break it down with hard numbers, but what I am saying is that my tiers would be based on winning percentage, fewest turnovers, completion percentage, 3rd down passing, yards per attempt, and passer rating. Yards and TDs would be after all that.

 

[-OZ-]

Just curious as to everyone's thoughts on this...

Taking QB totally out of the equation which team has more talent: Indy or Pit?

I believe that it is Indy...their D ranked higher this year, and they have way more talent on O.

And yet Ben has Pitt in the SB.

On O, without question.Defense? I give the edge to the Steelers, but acknowledge that Indy did extremely well this year.

 

[Banger]

I have to say I am very surprised by all the Carson Palmer love. I'm not debating he's a good QB but he has yet to play a quarter in a playoff game and he's already a tier 2 qb over many other qb's that have proven much more. He's being put up there with Roth, McNabb, etc. and he's yet to win one playoff game.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Big Ben in the 1st tier.....done reading.

 

[Spartans Rule]

I think there are only 2 QB's in tier one (Manning & Brady).

You really over rate Big Ben.  He is in the perfect situation for a young QB.  He is on a team that is built around a defense and simply asks its QB to not make too many mistakes.  A similar situation that Trent Dilfer found himself in with Baltimore.

Right now I would put Carson in tier 1a.

Tier 2 would include QB's like Hasselback, Mcnabb, and Vick.

If all Baltimore was asking Trent Dilfer to do was not make mistakes, then he was a huge failure. 11 picks in 225 attempts in 2000.

Of course, that's not what Baltimore wanted. That's not what ANY team asks its QB to do, and it's mind-boggling that so many fans believe that nonsense. What the Ravens did get from Dilfer was a QB who could throw the ball downfield accurately enough to punish a defense that tried to load the box, as he did in the Super Bowl with that quick strike to Stokley. Even the most conservative team throws 40% of the time and even the most punishing ground attack will get stuffed if the QB can't make accurate passes. It takes a hell of a lot more to be good at the position than avoiding miscues.

As for Roethlisberger, I don't care how favorable the situation, 8.9 YPA is pretty damn good. In fact, it's all gravy, since all they really need him to do is not fumble or throw a pick.

This is an interesting analysis. Dilfer has (or had) a strong arm but I wouldn't consider him an accurate downfield passer by any means. A high percentage of his passes have gone for INT's including the 2000 season as you point out. He is capable of making a big play and I think it's acceptable to sacrifice some accuracy at the QB position if you get enough big plays to make up for it. Dilfer made a fantastic slant throw to Sharpe in the AFC title game that Sharpe took the house for 96 yards when the Raiders stupidly blitzed on third-and-long. That play just killed the Raiders. The Stokely TD was a huge play in the Super Bowl, but for the most part Dilfer was really off-target in the first half and missed several wide open receivers (Sharpe and Ismail if I recall) for what should have been big plays. Baltimore was up 10-0 at halftime but it should have been at least 20-0 or 24-0. His inaccuracy let the Giants hang around longer then they should have. What Dilfer had was an all-time great defense that minimized the impact of his mistakes.Big Ben is already more impressive in 2 years than Dilfer has ever been at any time in his career and I don't see how they are comparable.

To be clearer, I should have pointed out that I wasn't trying to pump up Dilfer or compare him to Roethlisberger. He's not a good QB and never was. My point was just that he wasn't a "no mistakes" guy. I'm sick of that line.

The point I bolded is a very good one - if anything, a QB on a team like the 2000 Ravens has to worry less about turnovers, because they will be less damaging. An INT deep in your own territory is more likely to cost you 3 points than 7, and a pick at midfield may prove harmless.

 

[Brock Middlebrook]

Tom BradyBen RoethlisbergerPeyton ManningJake DelhommeMatt HasselbeckDonovan McNabbCarson PalmerDrew BreesDaunte CulpepperMarc BulgerByron LeftwichEli ManningTrent GreenDrew BledsoeJake PlummerMike VickKurt WarnerAaron BrooksMark BrunellBrett FavreSteve McNairKerry CollinsKyle BollerChris SimmsChad PenningtonGus FrerotteDavid CarrJoey HarringtonJ.P. LosmanRex GrossmanAlex Smith

 

[-OZ-]

Big Ben in the 1st tier.....done reading.

Yep, because that's all you need to know. He's an elite QB. Nobody else matters.

 

[CrossEyed]

I'm sorry, but anyone who would still compare Ben Roethlisberger to Trent Dilfer really isn't paying attention.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

Vick at #5 is a joke. There's no way I'd want him starting off a new franchise. He's not worth 1/2 the money he's paid right now if you're trying to build a SB caliber team.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Just curious as to everyone's thoughts on this...

Taking QB totally out of the equation which team has more talent: Indy or Pit?

I believe that it is Indy...their D ranked higher this year, and they have way more talent on O.

And yet Ben has Pitt in the SB.

I'd take Pittsburgh and it isn't close.First of all, Pittsburgh has a MUCH better defense. Saying the Colts are better because they allowed fewer points is as simple an approach as saying Manning is better than Roethlisberger because he threw for more yards. If you want to look a little deeper at QB, look a little deeper elsewhere too.

The reason the Colts' defense ranked so highly this season is because they were usually playing with a lead, which covered up their biggest weakness: stopping the run. Indy ranked 2nd in rushing attempts allowed, but 28th in yards per carry allowed. Their quick, attacking DL gave them an excellent pass rush, but if you took them off the attack, they could be beaten off the ball in the running game.

Pittsburgh is much more physical on the defensive line, and the ILBs cover a lot of ground. The run D yielded just 3.4 yards per pop! They also have a very good pass rush from the OLBs. Polamalu is one of the very best in the game - few defensive players can impact the game in so many ways. Overall, the Steeler D is just a much more well-rounded unit than the Colts.

Offensively, I'm not so sure the Colts advantage is that big. Yes, Harrison, Edge and Wayne are among the best at their positions. But so are Faneca, Hartings and Marvel Smith. Even though Edge is the best back between the teams, the Steelers had a much stronger ground attack by every statistical measure. That comes from the line.

Indy is a very talented team, but it's a finesse team. They rely on speed, skill and big plays on both sides of the ball. Pittsburgh is a physically overpowering team that imposes its will on both sides of the ball. Give me the latter any day.