Rate That Scrub! (1 Viewer)

[KSU_Shrink]

Hey everyone, it’s time to play Rate that Scrub! Fabulous prizes await just around the bend, all you have to do is rate these guys in the correct order! Now, so everyone knows the rules, we’re looking at Dynasty value, specifically a 12-team IDP, non-PPR, with an eye on value for next season.

1) Pierre Thomas: This year seems promising, due to injuries to everybody else. Next year, I expect Duece to be done, leaving a nice split between Pierre and Reggie.

2) Ray Rice: Some value this year, in RBBC so far. If Willis stays value maintains at current level, if Willis leaves, production increases.

3) BenJarvus Green-Ellis: Moderate value this year, waiting especially upon Morris’ next injury. Next year seems somewhat promising, as all the other backs are just plain old and/or undependable, i.e. Marroney

4) Jerome Harrison: Money when he touches the ball, if Jamal’s legs ever fall off, should be in line for a nice uptick in touches. Next year seems dependant upon the Brownies draft.

5) Leon Washington: Sporadic value this year, money if special teams are included in scoring. Next year seems like a re-cap of this year. TJ takes majority of carries and TD’s, leaving scraps for our man Leon. Good question for next year: Could he handle the whole load himself?

6) Peyton Hillis: Looks to have some moderate value this year, especially with goal-line looks and pass-catching ability. Value next year dependant upon relative health of other Bronco backs as well as draft issues.

7) Michael Bush: Value this year? Any? Next year seems dependant upon the Raiders getting a clue and/or a coach.

Your thoughts?

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Hey everyone, it’s time to play Rate that Scrub! Fabulous prizes await just around the bend, all you have to do is rate these guys in the correct order! Now, so everyone knows the rules, we’re looking at Dynasty value, specifically a 12-team IDP, non-PPR, with an eye on value for next season. 1) Pierre Thomas: This year seems promising, due to injuries to everybody else. Next year, I expect Duece to be done, leaving a nice split between Pierre and Reggie.2) Ray Rice: Some value this year, in RBBC so far. If Willis stays value maintains at current level, if Willis leaves, production increases.3) BenJarvus Green-Ellis: Moderate value this year, waiting especially upon Morris’ next injury. Next year seems somewhat promising, as all the other backs are just plain old and/or undependable, i.e. Marroney4) Jerome Harrison: Money when he touches the ball, if Jamal’s legs ever fall off, should be in line for a nice uptick in touches. Next year seems dependant upon the Brownies draft. 5) Leon Washington: Sporadic value this year, money if special teams are included in scoring. Next year seems like a re-cap of this year. TJ takes majority of carries and TD’s, leaving scraps for our man Leon. Good question for next year: Could he handle the whole load himself?6) Peyton Hillis: Looks to have some moderate value this year, especially with goal-line looks and pass-catching ability. Value next year dependant upon relative health of other Bronco backs as well as draft issues. 7) Michael Bush: Value this year? Any? Next year seems dependant upon the Raiders getting a clue and/or a coach. Your thoughts?

1. Ray Rice - Easy #12. Pierre Thomas - Deuce unlikely to be brought back?3. Michael Bush - Coaching staff not high on him, but has decent chance down the road.4. Jerome Harrison - More of a change of pace back, but Lewis not looking great.5. Leon Washington - Change of pace back, Thomas Jones playing well.6. Peyton Hillis - Absolutely no future value.7. BenJarvus Green-Ellis - Flash in the pan can safely be droppedThree thru five can be argued for any of the three backs, but I think 1-2 are easy and 6-7 are easy.

 

[Nate]

1) Ray Rice

 

[JPeso]

Rice, Thomas, Washington, Ellis, Hillis, Bush, Harrison..

 

[EBF]

1. Rice - Agree with the others. Easy #1.

2. Thomas - Not sold on him as a future starter, but has better size than Washington or Harrison.

3. Washington - Makes a lot of big plays and could surprise if given an expanded role.

4. Harrison - Has some talent and could be in line for a crack at the starting job as Lewis begins to falter.

The others are pretty much garbage. Bush has a slight chance of doing something eventually, but I'm not high on him.

 

[finito]

Rice by a lot, then Thomas and Washington very close - Washington is much more dynamic but it's unclear if the Jet coaches have any interest in trying to feature him more ala Westbrook (though Jones is getting up there in age so he may have a shot).

To piggyback on this thread, how about a few bubble WRs:

Mark Clayton - worth rostering or should he be on the waiver wire in all but the deepest dynasty leagues? Had one good year (not even that great, really), and has simply vanished from the face of the earth ala the "other" Clayton. I still have *a little* hope, but it's fading fast.

Bryant Johnson - 1 year deal with SF, had a bad hammy early in the season and was replaced by Josh Morgan. Was he healthy when replaced and just playing horribly, or did his injury have something to do with it? Caught all of his targets this week and seems to have some upside, though it still seems to be unclear whether he'll ever be starter material.

Mike Walker - I've heard people rave about his natural talent, but he has yet to string together more than a couple of games and stay healthy. The emergence of Matt Jones may mean Walker will have to wait a while - doesn't seem to be much room for WRs to stand out in Jax, and Jerry Porter is starting to get a little more involved as well.

Michael Jenkins - seems to have developed a rapport with Matt Ryan, and has been putting up decent #'s as the #2. Does he keep the job long term or could someone like Laurent Robinson take it away?

Chris Henry - TJ Housh could be gone next season, and you never know what'll happen with Ocho Cinco, so it's possible Chris Henry could slide into a starting role. However, he's basically one screw-up away from a lifetime ban and there some other young WRs there who could push him (Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell).

 

[Cookiemonster]

You said you were looking for value next year. As far as stats go (and FFB points,) I think Washington leads this list, followed by P.Thomas & Rice. If you are talking about FFB value going forward,

Rice

Washington

Thomas

the rest.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I agree with the sentiment that Rice is ahead by a huge margin, Thomas, Washington, Harrison, and Bush somewhat tightly packed in the second group, but I'm not sure why BJGE and Hillis are being completely dismissed as "garbage" or "absolutely no future value". The long term situations in NE and DEN are far from settled. Hillis could at least turn into a FB version of Kevin Faulk for Denver, and Green-Ellis can at least compete for part of the NE committee in camp next year. Hillis was Arkansas's leading receiver as a fullback + he's shown good SY running ability, both are excellent qualities in a fantasy running back. BJGE has also shown proficiency in getting the tough yards. By no means should anyone count on anything from either of these guys, but I there's a little too much prejudice based on draft status here. Shanahan is not afraid to use a fullback type at tailback - Reuben Droughns and Mike Anderson - and neither of those guys were highly regarded before they hit.

Both of these guys have done exactly what their team has asked of them, and Hillis will get the opportunity to continue to gain Shanny's trust for the remainder of the season. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.

 

[EBF]

Rice by a lot, then Thomas and Washington very close - Washington is much more dynamic but it's unclear if the Jet coaches have any interest in trying to feature him more ala Westbrook (though Jones is getting up there in age so he may have a shot).To piggyback on this thread, how about a few bubble WRs:Mark Clayton - worth rostering or should he be on the waiver wire in all but the deepest dynasty leagues? Had one good year (not even that great, really), and has simply vanished from the face of the earth ala the "other" Clayton. I still have *a little* hope, but it's fading fast.Bryant Johnson - 1 year deal with SF, had a bad hammy early in the season and was replaced by Josh Morgan. Was he healthy when replaced and just playing horribly, or did his injury have something to do with it? Caught all of his targets this week and seems to have some upside, though it still seems to be unclear whether he'll ever be starter material.Mike Walker - I've heard people rave about his natural talent, but he has yet to string together more than a couple of games and stay healthy. The emergence of Matt Jones may mean Walker will have to wait a while - doesn't seem to be much room for WRs to stand out in Jax, and Jerry Porter is starting to get a little more involved as well.Michael Jenkins - seems to have developed a rapport with Matt Ryan, and has been putting up decent #'s as the #2. Does he keep the job long term or could someone like Laurent Robinson take it away?Chris Henry - TJ Housh could be gone next season, and you never know what'll happen with Ocho Cinco, so it's possible Chris Henry could slide into a starting role. However, he's basically one screw-up away from a lifetime ban and there some other young WRs there who could push him (Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell).

1. Clayton - He might never be more than the next Ike Hilliard, but I still think he can be productive as a #2 WR in the right situation. 2. Walker - If he can stay healthy, he might be decent.3. Henry - If he can stay out of trouble, he might be decent.4. Jenkins - Meh. 5. Johnson - Meh.

 

[EBF]

I agree with the sentiment that Rice is ahead by a huge margin, Thomas, Washington, Harrison, and Bush somewhat tightly packed in the second group, but I'm not sure why BJGE and Hillis are being completely dismissed as "garbage" or "absolutely no future value". The long term situations in NE and DEN are far from settled. Hillis could at least turn into a FB version of Kevin Faulk for Denver, and Green-Ellis can at least compete for part of the NE committee in camp next year. Hillis was Arkansas's leading receiver as a fullback + he's shown good SY running ability, both are excellent qualities in a fantasy running back. BJGE has also shown proficiency in getting the tough yards. By no means should anyone count on anything from either of these guys, but I there's a little too much prejudice based on draft status here. Shanahan is not afraid to use a fullback type at tailback - Reuben Droughns and Mike Anderson - and neither of those guys were highly regarded before they hit.Both of these guys have done exactly what their team has asked of them, and Hillis will get the opportunity to continue to gain Shanny's trust for the remainder of the season. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.

Anything can happen, but BJGE seems like your typical Wali Lundy stop-gap type. He's probably the fourth best back on team with a very mediocre RB group. I like Hillis a little more than BJGE, but IMO there's virtually no way Shanahan doesn't draft another RB and add another in free agency. Torain is constantly injured, Pittman is old, and Young has been a disappointment. The Broncos will address the RB position this offseason. I'd bet on it. The only way I see Hillis having value next season is with another 1-2 injuries to guys ahead of him on the depth chart.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I agree with the sentiment that Rice is ahead by a huge margin, Thomas, Washington, Harrison, and Bush somewhat tightly packed in the second group, but I'm not sure why BJGE and Hillis are being completely dismissed as "garbage" or "absolutely no future value". The long term situations in NE and DEN are far from settled. Hillis could at least turn into a FB version of Kevin Faulk for Denver, and Green-Ellis can at least compete for part of the NE committee in camp next year. Hillis was Arkansas's leading receiver as a fullback + he's shown good SY running ability, both are excellent qualities in a fantasy running back. BJGE has also shown proficiency in getting the tough yards. By no means should anyone count on anything from either of these guys, but I there's a little too much prejudice based on draft status here. Shanahan is not afraid to use a fullback type at tailback - Reuben Droughns and Mike Anderson - and neither of those guys were highly regarded before they hit.Both of these guys have done exactly what their team has asked of them, and Hillis will get the opportunity to continue to gain Shanny's trust for the remainder of the season. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.

Anything can happen, but BJGE seems like your typical Wali Lundy stop-gap type. He's probably the fourth best back on team with a very mediocre RB group. I like Hillis a little more than BJGE, but IMO there's virtually no way Shanahan doesn't draft another RB and add another in free agency. Torain is constantly injured, Pittman is old, and Young has been a disappointment. The Broncos will address the RB position this offseason. I'd bet on it. The only way I see Hillis having value next season is with another 1-2 injuries to guys ahead of him on the depth chart.

Anyone could have value, but we have to make a decision one way or another on all of these players. I don't think Hillis will ever have more value than he has this week, and the "Lawfirm's" window just got closed. You could have made the same arguments for every has-been and never-was running back over the past 10 years. There's nothing special about Hillis or BJGE that would lead you to believe the Pats or Broncos would go into the season with either of them as a starting running back.Edit to add: We all know that the key to Dynasty is identifying elite talent, but almost as important is coming to a quick judment on scrubs. Dynasty leaguers can't afford to waste precious roster spots on mediocre talents who will never amount to anything more than a one-week fill-in. If you're carrying Hillis and BJGE, then you're filling a spot that could go towards a flier on a much more talented player. Just my .02

 

[Black]

I agree with the sentiment that Rice is ahead by a huge margin, Thomas, Washington, Harrison, and Bush somewhat tightly packed in the second group, but I'm not sure why BJGE and Hillis are being completely dismissed as "garbage" or "absolutely no future value". The long term situations in NE and DEN are far from settled. Hillis could at least turn into a FB version of Kevin Faulk for Denver, and Green-Ellis can at least compete for part of the NE committee in camp next year. Hillis was Arkansas's leading receiver as a fullback + he's shown good SY running ability, both are excellent qualities in a fantasy running back. BJGE has also shown proficiency in getting the tough yards. By no means should anyone count on anything from either of these guys, but I there's a little too much prejudice based on draft status here. Shanahan is not afraid to use a fullback type at tailback - Reuben Droughns and Mike Anderson - and neither of those guys were highly regarded before they hit.Both of these guys have done exactly what their team has asked of them, and Hillis will get the opportunity to continue to gain Shanny's trust for the remainder of the season. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.

That's why I subscribe to the Audible....

 

[Jerry Lawler]

1) Ray Rice - Not a scrub

2) Pierre Thomas - I like him, but he looks more like a career backup to me. He has a good opportunity in NO and should have a stretch of predictable good games most years.

3) Leon Washington - I'd take him over Pierre in a PPR

4) Jerome Harrison - Interesting big play guy. Jury's out on him for me.

5) Michael Bush - a long-shot to ever be productive, but he's got more potential than the rest

6) BenJarvus Green-Ellis - always lots of opportunity in the NE backfield, and he's got more feature back potential than Hillis

7) Peyton Hillis - lots of opportunity in the Denver backfield too

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I agree with the sentiment that Rice is ahead by a huge margin, Thomas, Washington, Harrison, and Bush somewhat tightly packed in the second group, but I'm not sure why BJGE and Hillis are being completely dismissed as "garbage" or "absolutely no future value". The long term situations in NE and DEN are far from settled. Hillis could at least turn into a FB version of Kevin Faulk for Denver, and Green-Ellis can at least compete for part of the NE committee in camp next year. Hillis was Arkansas's leading receiver as a fullback + he's shown good SY running ability, both are excellent qualities in a fantasy running back. BJGE has also shown proficiency in getting the tough yards. By no means should anyone count on anything from either of these guys, but I there's a little too much prejudice based on draft status here. Shanahan is not afraid to use a fullback type at tailback - Reuben Droughns and Mike Anderson - and neither of those guys were highly regarded before they hit.Both of these guys have done exactly what their team has asked of them, and Hillis will get the opportunity to continue to gain Shanny's trust for the remainder of the season. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them.

Anything can happen, but BJGE seems like your typical Wali Lundy stop-gap type. He's probably the fourth best back on team with a very mediocre RB group. I like Hillis a little more than BJGE, but IMO there's virtually no way Shanahan doesn't draft another RB and add another in free agency. Torain is constantly injured, Pittman is old, and Young has been a disappointment. The Broncos will address the RB position this offseason. I'd bet on it. The only way I see Hillis having value next season is with another 1-2 injuries to guys ahead of him on the depth chart.

Anyone could have value, but we have to make a decision one way or another on all of these players. I don't think Hillis will ever have more value than he has this week, and the "Lawfirm's" window just got closed. You could have made the same arguments for every has-been and never-was running back over the past 10 years. There's nothing special about Hillis or BJGE that would lead you to believe the Pats or Broncos would go into the season with either of them as a starting running back.Edit to add: We all know that the key to Dynasty is identifying elite talent, but almost as important is coming to a quick judment on scrubs. Dynasty leaguers can't afford to waste precious roster spots on mediocre talents who will never amount to anything more than a one-week fill-in. If you're carrying Hillis and BJGE, then you're filling a spot that could go towards a flier on a much more talented player. Just my .02

I totally agree that they shouldn't be rostered over the Washington/Harrison/Thomas/Bush types, but what other "much more talented players" are we talking about? Chauncey Washington? Xavier Omon? Hillis and BJGE should absolutely be 6th and 7th on this list, but they are not guys that people can write off and completely forget about, and there are plenty of deep dynasty formats where they are certainly worth a roster spot during the offseason. If either guy failed miserably with the shot they got, I would understand dismissing them at this early juncture, but they haven't.

 

[makwaloon]

When speaking of all the RB's in Denver (Young, Torain, Hillis, Bell, Pittman) don't forget about Anthony Aldridge. He showed some talent and quickness in the pre-season before getting hurt. If they don't bring anyone else of consequence in, I see him as a darkhorse candidate. Any thoughts on him Bloom or EBF?

 

[MAC_32]

Wish I had some commentary to add but between bloom, ebf, and fear + loathing...I got nothin...I'll just rank and briefly comment

RB

1) Rice - it's been said

2) Pierre - again

---

3) Harrison - I value him and Washington equally, but Harrison may have the chance of a new coaching regime getting him more looks whereas Washington will likely play 2nd fiddle again in 09 before (potentially) hitting free agency in 010

4) Washington

---

5) Hillis - he has a 6 week tryout

6) Green Ellis - low ceiling guy that will be unspectacularly productive whenever called upon

7) Michael Bush - I think he can be written off at this point, his only chance is to get out of Oakland

WR

1) Walker - not even close

---

2) Clayton - I'm a glutton for punishment, I'm just happy I don't have him on any of my teams but if he ever gets dropped I'll be waiting with gullible open arms. Tons of talent, little production.

3) Henry - we know what he can do, but will he? or will he even be given the opportunity?

4) Jenkins - low ceiling, playing right now in large part because he's a good blocker and his competition got hurt in camp. He's a UFA at season's end, yes? If so I think he's gone, he may have a WR3 like impact elsewhere but that's about it.

---

5) Johnson - he's not any good

 

[MAC_32]

When speaking of all the RB's in Denver (Young, Torain, Hillis, Bell, Pittman) don't forget about Anthony Aldridge. He showed some talent and quickness in the pre-season before getting hurt. If they don't bring anyone else of consequence in, I see him as a darkhorse candidate. Any thoughts on him Bloom or EBF?

Unlike guys like Leon Washington and Jerome Harrison who are unfairly criticized for being too small to be an NFL RB, Alridge actually is.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

When speaking of all the RB's in Denver (Young, Torain, Hillis, Bell, Pittman) don't forget about Anthony Aldridge. He showed some talent and quickness in the pre-season before getting hurt. If they don't bring anyone else of consequence in, I see him as a darkhorse candidate. Any thoughts on him Bloom or EBF?

Alridge is wiry little back, he would be the first of his type to succeed in the NFL at RB, but he's tough as nails, so I wouldn't completely write him off. His best bet is probably as an Eric Metcalf/Dante Hall type. We liked him enough to profile him on our show:Draftguys TV profiles Anthony Alridge

A few talented deep dynasty RBs (we're talking DEEEP) to keep in mind:

The Georgia Trio:

Danny Ware, NY Giants

Thomas Brown, Atlanta

Kregg Lumpkin, Green Bay

the aforementioned Chauncey Washington, Jacksonville and Xavier Omon, Buffalo

Thomas Clayton, SF Practice Squad

I would probably only consider Ware over Hillis/BJGE

 

[MAC_32]

When speaking of all the RB's in Denver (Young, Torain, Hillis, Bell, Pittman) don't forget about Anthony Aldridge. He showed some talent and quickness in the pre-season before getting hurt. If they don't bring anyone else of consequence in, I see him as a darkhorse candidate. Any thoughts on him Bloom or EBF?

Alridge is wiry little back, he would be the first of his type to succeed in the NFL at RB, but he's tough as nails, so I wouldn't completely write him off. His best bet is probably as an Eric Metcalf/Dante Hall type. We liked him enough to profile him on our show:Draftguys TV profiles Anthony Alridge

A few talented deep dynasty RBs (we're talking DEEEP) to keep in mind:

The Georgia Trio:

Danny Ware, NY Giants

Thomas Brown, Atlanta

Kregg Lumpkin, Green Bay

the aforementioned Chauncey Washington, Jacksonville and Xavier Omon, Buffalo

Thomas Clayton, SF Practice Squad

I would probably only consider Ware over Hillis/BJGE

Can I get a brief scouting report on Ware and Clayton? Ware's name rings a bell, Clayton? Not so much.I own Lumpkin and Omon in various league, not a fan of Washington and with Brown 4th in line at Atlanta think he's waiver wire fodder until one of those pieces goes elsewhere or the Atlanta RB's get hit by the same bug as the Denver RB's.

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Hey everyone, it's time to play Rate that Scrub! Fabulous prizes await just around the bend, all you have to do is rate these guys in the correct order! Now, so everyone knows the rules, we're looking at Dynasty value, specifically a 12-team IDP, non-PPR, with an eye on value for next season. 1) Pierre Thomas: This year seems promising, due to injuries to everybody else. Next year, I expect Duece to be done, leaving a nice split between Pierre and Reggie.2) Ray Rice: Some value this year, in RBBC so far. If Willis stays value maintains at current level, if Willis leaves, production increases.3) BenJarvus Green-Ellis: Moderate value this year, waiting especially upon Morris' next injury. Next year seems somewhat promising, as all the other backs are just plain old and/or undependable, i.e. Marroney4) Jerome Harrison: Money when he touches the ball, if Jamal's legs ever fall off, should be in line for a nice uptick in touches. Next year seems dependant upon the Brownies draft. 5) Leon Washington: Sporadic value this year, money if special teams are included in scoring. Next year seems like a re-cap of this year. TJ takes majority of carries and TD's, leaving scraps for our man Leon. Good question for next year: Could he handle the whole load himself?6) Peyton Hillis: Looks to have some moderate value this year, especially with goal-line looks and pass-catching ability. Value next year dependant upon relative health of other Bronco backs as well as draft issues. 7) Michael Bush: Value this year? Any? Next year seems dependant upon the Raiders getting a clue and/or a coach. Your thoughts?

Next year only?Rice by a ton.Pierre Thomas comes next for me as I have to assume that he'll eventually take over for Deuce. If McAllister is suspended for four games and Thomas steps up, that could be the changing of the guard. In that offense, I'd take anyone I could get. McAllister was a force in Bush's rookie year and I expect that Thomas can put up similar numbers.Leon Washington is explosive and the Jets are wising up to getting him the ball more often and in space. He does have far more value in PPR leagues and returner-friendly scoring.Harrison could easily be second if one of two things happen - Crennel is gone or Jamal Lewis loses touches. Odds are against both, so he's fourth. Bush is buried on the depth chart and the Raiders are likely to give Run DMC a season to prove he's worth their investment - or not.BJGE and Hillis are trailing the pack only because they are big unknowns. Hillis may surprise, but I don't trust Shanny - at all. The Lawfirm looked good while Sammy Morris was out, but now he's back and behind him on the depth chart. That's not a great sign, plus Maroney will be back next year. They are cheap Dynasty-wise and have big upside but they could also be irrelevant in six months.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Just to add on Bush, there was a report that the Raiders wanted to him to move to fullback, but he relented:

“He should really address and be open-armed to playing fullback,” Cable said. “He can be a special, special fullback in this league. We’ve talked about it with him and I don’t think it’s something he’s real comfortable with yet.”

I will say he didn't look like the first round talent we thought he was coming out of Louisville in his action earlier this year. I would probably roster Thomas, Washington, or Harrison over him at this point.

 

[KSU_Shrink]

Just to add on Bush, there was a report that the Raiders wanted to him to move to fullback, but he relented:

“He should really address and be open-armed to playing fullback,” Cable said. “He can be a special, special fullback in this league. We’ve talked about it with him and I don’t think it’s something he’s real comfortable with yet.”

I will say he didn't look like the first round talent we thought he was coming out of Louisville in his action earlier this year. I would probably roster Thomas, Washington, or Harrison over him at this point.

Yeah, it can't be a good sign when the coach is saying that "special, special fullback" is in his future. Sounds like a back-handed compliment if I ever heard one. How much do you guys think his lack of game-time performance is linked to his ability VS the Raider's incomprehensible level of dysfunction?

 

[EBF]

When speaking of all the RB's in Denver (Young, Torain, Hillis, Bell, Pittman) don't forget about Anthony Aldridge. He showed some talent and quickness in the pre-season before getting hurt. If they don't bring anyone else of consequence in, I see him as a darkhorse candidate. Any thoughts on him Bloom or EBF?

I don't know much about him. I think he's more of a gadget WR/RB hybrid than a potential franchise back though. The thing is, you can pretty much rest assured that Denver will add 1-2 promising backs this offseason. So when you talk about the guys currently on the roster, you have to assume that they'll be competing against a Shonn Greene/Javon Ringer/Laurence Maroney/Willis McGahee/Darren Sproles next season. After suffering through this miserable running game, Shanahan will not stand pat in the offseason. No way.

 

[MAC_32]

Hey everyone, it's time to play Rate that Scrub! Fabulous prizes await just around the bend, all you have to do is rate these guys in the correct order! Now, so everyone knows the rules, we're looking at Dynasty value, specifically a 12-team IDP, non-PPR, with an eye on value for next season.

1) Pierre Thomas: This year seems promising, due to injuries to everybody else. Next year, I expect Duece to be done, leaving a nice split between Pierre and Reggie.

2) Ray Rice: Some value this year, in RBBC so far. If Willis stays value maintains at current level, if Willis leaves, production increases.

3) BenJarvus Green-Ellis: Moderate value this year, waiting especially upon Morris' next injury. Next year seems somewhat promising, as all the other backs are just plain old and/or undependable, i.e. Marroney

4) Jerome Harrison: Money when he touches the ball, if Jamal's legs ever fall off, should be in line for a nice uptick in touches. Next year seems dependant upon the Brownies draft.

5) Leon Washington: Sporadic value this year, money if special teams are included in scoring. Next year seems like a re-cap of this year. TJ takes majority of carries and TD's, leaving scraps for our man Leon. Good question for next year: Could he handle the whole load himself?

6) Peyton Hillis: Looks to have some moderate value this year, especially with goal-line looks and pass-catching ability. Value next year dependant upon relative health of other Bronco backs as well as draft issues.

7) Michael Bush: Value this year? Any? Next year seems dependant upon the Raiders getting a clue and/or a coach.

Your thoughts?

Next year only?Rice by a ton.

Pierre Thomas comes next for me as I have to assume that he'll eventually take over for Deuce. If McAllister is suspended for four games and Thomas steps up, that could be the changing of the guard. In that offense, I'd take anyone I could get. McAllister was a force in Bush's rookie year and I expect that Thomas can put up similar numbers.

Leon Washington is explosive and the Jets are wising up to getting him the ball more often and in space. He does have far more value in PPR leagues and returner-friendly scoring.

Harrison could easily be second if one of two things happen - Crennel is gone or Jamal Lewis loses touches. Odds are against both, so he's fourth.

Bush is buried on the depth chart and the Raiders are likely to give Run DMC a season to prove he's worth their investment - or not.

BJGE and Hillis are trailing the pack only because they are big unknowns. Hillis may surprise, but I don't trust Shanny - at all. The Lawfirm looked good while Sammy Morris was out, but now he's back and behind him on the depth chart. That's not a great sign, plus Maroney will be back next year. They are cheap Dynasty-wise and have big upside but they could also be irrelevant in six months.

Don't be so sure of that, the Romeo bit anyway. Multiple media members around here are saying anonymous Browns sources are telling them Romeo is gone barring a miraculous turnaround the final 6 weeks. I'm assuming miraculous turnaround means at least 4-2 and a win over Pittsburgh and more likely 5-1 and a win over Pittsburgh. These local media guys are right with their inside Browns info more often than they're wrong. Just throwing that out there...

 

[stevegamer]

I'd go:

Rice - best talent of the bunch and good opportunity.

Thomas - if he takes over for McAllister, that's a solid role. Has shown he can play some, and would theoretically be the goal-line guy, and the predominant rusher. Still it's a split with Bush - who is dinged.

Washington - if return yards count, he moves to #1 on this list. Very useable in a PPR as well, but is behind an older back who is producing and has shown durability.

Hillis - Denver RB's are a crapshoot. But when they hit, they hit. Worst case scenario here is bye week filler as a short-yardage back & pass-catcher, so he'd be usable. Best case is Bronco starting tailback. If he gets that job, he'll have value in trade or to play.

Harrison - Browns won't play him. Needs a change of scenery (new team) or just the landscaping (new regime). Lewis is at the end of the line, but who knows with the Browns?

Green-Ellis - on a team which likes the comitte approach, and has a similar backs in front of him. Not a good recipe for success.

Bush - Needs to get out of Okaland, but hasn't shown much.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Can I get a brief scouting report on Ware and Clayton? Ware's name rings a bell, Clayton? Not so much.

Ware had an outstanding freshman year at Georgia, but he was bothered by injuries for the rest of his career there. He's a strong, between the tackles type. The Giants have been jealously guarding him, and with one or both of Ward/Jacobs probably leaving in free agency next year, he should get a chance to see the field (if not late this year after the Giants clinch home field)Clayton was at Florida State, then Kansas State, some character issues, but he's a low center of gravity, shifty back with a good burst.

 

[MAC_32]

Can I get a brief scouting report on Ware and Clayton? Ware's name rings a bell, Clayton? Not so much.

Ware had an outstanding freshman year at Georgia, but he was bothered by injuries for the rest of his career there. He's a strong, between the tackles type. The Giants have been jealously guarding him, and with one or both of Ward/Jacobs probably leaving in free agency next year, he should get a chance to see the field (if not late this year after the Giants clinch home field)Clayton was at Florida State, then Kansas State, some character issues, but he's a low center of gravity, shifty back with a good burst.

I was hoping to add Marcus Mason toward the end of the season but another owner scooped him up a few weeks ago and still has him, looks like Ware's my new Mason. Thanks Bloom!

 

[Jeff Tefertiller]

One guy that seems to be similar to some on this list is Sproles. He could play elsewhere in 2009. He could be something in the right offense.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I'd go:

Hillis - Denver RB's are a crapshoot. But when they hit, they hit. Worst case scenario here is bye week filler as a short-yardage back & pass-catcher, so he'd be usable. Best case is Bronco starting tailback. If he gets that job, he'll have value in trade or to play.

Wait, you believe this is the case for next season?

 

[stevegamer]

I'd go:

Hillis - Denver RB's are a crapshoot. But when they hit, they hit. Worst case scenario here is bye week filler as a short-yardage back & pass-catcher, so he'd be usable. Best case is Bronco starting tailback. If he gets that job, he'll have value in trade or to play.

Wait, you believe this is the case for next season?

I think he could be bye week filler if he's a short-yardage guy & pass-catching FB next year, sure. However. If he shows well late this season, he's "the starting Denver RB" - and that has value. It doesn't matter if he gains value before next year, right?

 

[KSU_Shrink]

Regarding the draft position point, I stumbled across this chart/article back in the day, probably in some Shark Pool posting. Seems like it may have some relevance to this discussion...

http://www.ourlads.com/dayone.cfm

It seems that playing the odds from past drafts might have some relevance now.

Quick rundown: According to the chart, 30% of the RB two-deeps on NFL rosters came from the first round, 20% from the second, and 14% from UDFA

It would be interesting to see the current year's data added to it...

 

[Boone22]

Opinions on Mike Hart for the future?

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I'd go:

Hillis - Denver RB's are a crapshoot. But when they hit, they hit. Worst case scenario here is bye week filler as a short-yardage back & pass-catcher, so he'd be usable. Best case is Bronco starting tailback. If he gets that job, he'll have value in trade or to play.

Wait, you believe this is the case for next season?

I think he could be bye week filler if he's a short-yardage guy & pass-catching FB next year, sure. However. If he shows well late this season, he's "the starting Denver RB" - and that has value. It doesn't matter if he gains value before next year, right?

Peyton Hillis going into next season as "the starting Denver RB" would be the most shocking fantasy RB situation I've seen in the 15 years that I've been doing this hobby. I can't even imagine a scenario where Hillis would enter the '09 season as the starting RB.

 

[LBH]

Ill add Ahmad Bradshaw to the list. I think he could be very good down the road

 

[MAC_32]

Opinions on Mike Hart for the future?

He's the same hard nosed, tough, quality, undersized RB that lacks a second gear and is constantly injured that he's always been.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Opinions on Mike Hart for the future?

I wish he hadn't suffered a torn ACL. He looked good, just as good as he did at Michigan on his few touches before that injury, AND the Colts seemed like they were going to use him and Rhodes in tandem after Addai went down. The one thing that seemed like it wouldn't translate - his burst - seemed just fine. Hart has OUTSTANDING balance and feet. If I hear that he's back from his ACL and competing for a roster spot in camp next year, I'll snap him up in all of my dynasty leagues.

 

[KSU_Shrink]

Regarding Hart, how would you compare/contrast him with D Sproles?

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

Regarding Hart, how would you compare/contrast him with D Sproles?

Totally different types of players. Hart is a hard-nosed inside runner who gets yards after contact and knows how to be productive in tight quarters. Sproles is a dynamic jitterbug with some of the best open field moves in the league. He's also got legit home run fifth gear and knows how to set up his blocks. Sproles is a willing inside runner (as you'll remember from his days in Manhattan), but he's too small to be used that way over an entire season.

 

[KSU_Shrink]

Round Two

It seems from the discussion the first time around, that some revision is in order. To that end, let’s pull Ray Ray out, and add in a few others, to make the focus on guys whom are pretty much unknowns.

Looking at this list, it seems that it could be broken down into three groups:

Third-down speed guys VS Fourth-down pluggers VS Inbetweeners

My question to the ‘Pool: Who in those groups seems like they could become full (majority) load Running Backs, and why or why not?

Again, thinking for next year, and beyond…

1) Pierre Thomas: Inbetweener

2) Leon Washington: Speeder

3) Jerome Harrison: Speeder

4) Darren Sproles: Speeder

5) Jerious Norwood: Speeder

6) Ahmad Bradshaw: Speeder

7) Danny Ware: Big Plugger?

8) Marcus Mason: Inbetweener?

9) Mike Hart: Small Plugger?

10) Gary Russell: Plugger

11) Greg Jones: Plugger

12) JJ Arrington: Speeder

13) Michael Bush: Plugger who can catch the ball

14) BenJarvus Green-Ellis: Inbetweener

15) Peyton Hillis: Plugger who catches the ball

16) L’Ron McClain: Plugger

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Hey everyone, it’s time to play Rate that Scrub! Fabulous prizes await just around the bend, all you have to do is rate these guys in the correct order! Now, so everyone knows the rules, we’re looking at Dynasty value, specifically a 12-team IDP, non-PPR, with an eye on value for next season. 1) Pierre Thomas: This year seems promising, due to injuries to everybody else. Next year, I expect Duece to be done, leaving a nice split between Pierre and Reggie.2) Ray Rice: Some value this year, in RBBC so far. If Willis stays value maintains at current level, if Willis leaves, production increases.3) BenJarvus Green-Ellis: Moderate value this year, waiting especially upon Morris’ next injury. Next year seems somewhat promising, as all the other backs are just plain old and/or undependable, i.e. Marroney4) Jerome Harrison: Money when he touches the ball, if Jamal’s legs ever fall off, should be in line for a nice uptick in touches. Next year seems dependant upon the Brownies draft. 5) Leon Washington: Sporadic value this year, money if special teams are included in scoring. Next year seems like a re-cap of this year. TJ takes majority of carries and TD’s, leaving scraps for our man Leon. Good question for next year: Could he handle the whole load himself?6) Peyton Hillis: Looks to have some moderate value this year, especially with goal-line looks and pass-catching ability. Value next year dependant upon relative health of other Bronco backs as well as draft issues. 7) Michael Bush: Value this year? Any? Next year seems dependant upon the Raiders getting a clue and/or a coach. Your thoughts?

1. Ray Rice - Most complete back on the list. Baltimore may give McGaheel his walking papers.2. Leon Washington - whether he has added bulk or improved his balnce he no longer gets arm tackled or goes down on first contact. Could follow the career path of Tiki Barber, going from Returner/3rd Down back to feature back. Simply explosive. 3. Pierre Thomas - Do the Saints believe in him? They should.4. Michael Bush - talented big back. Him and McFadden should compliment eachother well.5 BenJarvis Green-Ellis - Nothing flashy, but powerful runner who shoudl at the very least be a nice COP power back.6. Jeron Harrison - I've always liked him, but he just never gets the chance. My guess is if teh Browns kick Lewis to teh curb they bring in some one else.7. Peyton Hillis - I'd call him a "flash in the pan", but "flash" should not be used to describe the molases slow Hillis

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Can I get a brief scouting report on Ware and Clayton? Ware's name rings a bell, Clayton? Not so much.

Ware had an outstanding freshman year at Georgia, but he was bothered by injuries for the rest of his career there. He's a strong, between the tackles type. The Giants have been jealously guarding him, and with one or both of Ward/Jacobs probably leaving in free agency next year, he should get a chance to see the field (if not late this year after the Giants clinch home field)Clayton was at Florida State, then Kansas State, some character issues, but he's a low center of gravity, shifty back with a good burst.

Ware looked really good in preseason with the Jets, albeit most of his opportiunities coming against 3rd and 4th defensive units.

 

[Cookiemonster]

I don't get all the love for Rice going into next year. Willis' contract is very affordable in '09 and, when healthy, he's very effective. Rice should see a bigger workload next year just to help keep McGahee healthy, but I'm betting Willis is the starter. Greg Jones is a good one to watch if Taylor hangs 'em up. Harrison looks plenty strong enough to be a full-timer. Leon in PPR, Norwood will likely never be a full-timer, but still very valuable in PPR. Bush would only be a short-yardage specialist on a team that should get about 12 goal line plays per year. I think Bradshaw & Pierre have proven themselves already, but I doubt of the 3 Giants RBs that Bradshaw is the one to go. Ware could replace Ward, and Jacobs & Bradshaw stay. They need the quick-hitter in the lineup.

 

[Sigmund Bloom]

I don't get all the love for Rice going into next year. Willis' contract is very affordable in '09 and, when healthy, he's very effective. Rice should see a bigger workload next year just to help keep McGahee healthy, but I'm betting Willis is the starter. Greg Jones is a good one to watch if Taylor hangs 'em up. Harrison looks plenty strong enough to be a full-timer. Leon in PPR, Norwood will likely never be a full-timer, but still very valuable in PPR. Bush would only be a short-yardage specialist on a team that should get about 12 goal line plays per year. I think Bradshaw & Pierre have proven themselves already, but I doubt of the 3 Giants RBs that Bradshaw is the one to go. Ware could replace Ward, and Jacobs & Bradshaw stay. They need the quick-hitter in the lineup.

I think the theory on Rice is that McGahee gets his walking papers this offseason.I used to be very high on Jones prospects because he seemed to get RB, not FB, money on his extension, but man, he has turned into an outstanding fullback. When Taylor got his bell rung vs. Denver this year, I expected Jones to get Taylor's touches, but instead they just fed MJD. Then there's the complication of CHauncey Washington. I think Jones adds so much as a fullback that they are probably smarter to just keep him there and develop Washington to replace most of Taylor's touches while giving MJD slightly more work. I agree that Ward is the most likely NYG RB to go.

 

[Cookiemonster]

I don't get all the love for Rice going into next year. Willis' contract is very affordable in '09 and, when healthy, he's very effective. Rice should see a bigger workload next year just to help keep McGahee healthy, but I'm betting Willis is the starter. Greg Jones is a good one to watch if Taylor hangs 'em up. Harrison looks plenty strong enough to be a full-timer. Leon in PPR, Norwood will likely never be a full-timer, but still very valuable in PPR. Bush would only be a short-yardage specialist on a team that should get about 12 goal line plays per year. I think Bradshaw & Pierre have proven themselves already, but I doubt of the 3 Giants RBs that Bradshaw is the one to go. Ware could replace Ward, and Jacobs & Bradshaw stay. They need the quick-hitter in the lineup.

I think the theory on Rice is that McGahee gets his walking papers this offseason.I used to be very high on Jones prospects because he seemed to get RB, not FB, money on his extension, but man, he has turned into an outstanding fullback. When Taylor got his bell rung vs. Denver this year, I expected Jones to get Taylor's touches, but instead they just fed MJD. Then there's the complication of CHauncey Washington. I think Jones adds so much as a fullback that they are probably smarter to just keep him there and develop Washington to replace most of Taylor's touches while giving MJD slightly more work. I agree that Ward is the most likely NYG RB to go.

On Jones - he is also a very effective runner and tremendous short-yardage guy. I bought him as a handcuff to Taylor a couple years back (and because of, missed on MJD). If Taylor goes, I'm thinking Jones (while I conceed is a very good FB) would relieve Drew of some of the week to week pounding. Drew is a monster, but I doubt they'd run him into the ground every week. Washington doesn't belong in the equation.For the contract status, McGahee gets spendy in 2010. He's very affordable in '09 though. I guess it depends on whether or not Cameron has had his can full of him. JMO, Willis stays and gets >50% of the carries.Thanks for all the input, Bloom.

 

[KSU_Shrink]

Thanks to everyone for their input! Enjoyed the analysis, its why I love the Shark Pool

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Greg Jones was a good runner at Florida St., but he's been a plodder at the NFL level. I'll be shocked if he ever has legit fantasy value.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Greg Jones was a good runner at Florida St., but he's been a plodder at the NFL level. I'll be shocked if he ever has legit fantasy value.

His sub 4 ypc would suggest that, but pre-2006-injury, he was looking very good and his #s were a little misleading since he was the nearly exclusive short yardage guy and Taylor was still getting the vast majority of the work @ <30 years old. I thought he looked at least S.Morris good. Possibly Rudi Johnson good. Plodders, maybe. I call them power runners. G.Jones '05 looked better to me than R.Grant '08, or E.Graham '07. I'll admit I haven't seen enough of the guy to say if he's back to near 100% after the season ending '06 injury. He's only 27 & listed at 6'1 254# and could still show a J.Lewis-like skill set if given the chance & a healthy line.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Greg Jones was a good runner at Florida St., but he's been a plodder at the NFL level. I'll be shocked if he ever has legit fantasy value.

His sub 4 ypc would suggest that, but pre-2006-injury, he was looking very good and his #s were a little misleading since he was the nearly exclusive short yardage guy and Taylor was still getting the vast majority of the work @ <30 years old. I thought he looked at least S.Morris good. Possibly Rudi Johnson good. Plodders, maybe. I call them power runners. G.Jones '05 looked better to me than R.Grant '08, or E.Graham '07. I'll admit I haven't seen enough of the guy to say if he's back to near 100% after the season ending '06 injury. He's only 27 & listed at 6'1 254# and could still show a J.Lewis-like skill set if given the chance & a healthy line.

I saw him pre-injury, and he didn't look nearly as good as any of those guys to me. Slow. He looked like a poor man's Stacey Mack. I know he's nowhere near even an aging Jamal Lewis.