Ray Rice's Domestic Abuse Presser Sends Wrong Message (1 Viewer)

[Christo]

I get so confused when people make statements like the one Tim made earlier. Basically, there's a suggestion that if you were uncomfortable with the cake smearing that you are ok with domestic violence. It's one of the dumber things brought up, and just because some loon brought it up somewhere else, doesn't validate it to be brought up again.

So you admit you are bigoted against cake-smashers?

Wait a minute. I smashed cake in my wife's face on our wedding day. You got a problem with that, mofo?

Maybe we should settle this in an elevator.

I do. It's dumb.

 

[timschochet]

Maybe I should add a poll?

What's the worst digression in this thread?

1. Tim bringing up Sam's sexuality.

2. Urak-Hai and Abraham's slapfight about the Titans and Ravens.

Nah, forget the poll. Tim would win on reputation alone, like the incumbent who gets caught embezzling and exhorting funds, but gets reelected anyway.

Not sure I love your analogy. LOL

 

[avoiding injuries]

I get so confused when people make statements like the one Tim made earlier. Basically, there's a suggestion that if you were uncomfortable with the cake smearing that you are ok with domestic violence. It's one of the dumber things brought up, and just because some loon brought it up somewhere else, doesn't validate it to be brought up again.

That's not what I wrote.

You made the comparison, maybe you could elaborate on the intentionally vague point you were trying to make.

 

[timschochet]

I get so confused when people make statements like the one Tim made earlier. Basically, there's a suggestion that if you were uncomfortable with the cake smearing that you are ok with domestic violence. It's one of the dumber things brought up, and just because some loon brought it up somewhere else, doesn't validate it to be brought up again.

That's not what I wrote.

You made the comparison, maybe you could elaborate on the intentionally vague point you were trying to make.

I already did. I never wrote than anyone uncomfortable with the cake smearing was OK with domestic violence. What many people pointed out at the time of the cake incident was that it seemed odd to be upset over this in a league filled with wife beaters, thugs, criminals, etc.The level of outrage, and the selective nature of it, seemed unwarranted. I agreed with that.A few weeks later, we are presented with a pretty major NFL star who turns out to be a wife beater. And this made me (and a lot of other people) think of the Michael Sam argument once again. Does that make us loons? Maybe to you. To me, I simply decided to repeat the argument once again with a real live example. And it was intended as a one-shot anyhow, an added point to bring up, certainly not to change the direction of the main discussion.

 

[Henry Ford]

I get so confused when people make statements like the one Tim made earlier. Basically, there's a suggestion that if you were uncomfortable with the cake smearing that you are ok with domestic violence. It's one of the dumber things brought up, and just because some loon brought it up somewhere else, doesn't validate it to be brought up again.

I don't think that's what he's saying.

I think what he's saying is that people soured on Michael Sam because he's flaunting his gayness, while the Ravens are tweeting about Ray Rice's domestic violence and how they're standing by him, and that seems ludicrous.

 

[jonessed]

I get so confused when people make statements like the one Tim made earlier. Basically, there's a suggestion that if you were uncomfortable with the cake smearing that you are ok with domestic violence. It's one of the dumber things brought up, and just because some loon brought it up somewhere else, doesn't validate it to be brought up again.

I don't think that's what he's saying.I think what he's saying is that people soured on Michael Sam because he's flaunting his gayness, while the Ravens are tweeting about Ray Rice's domestic violence and how they're standing by him, and that seems ludicrous.

I'm not seeing the connection. What does support or lack of support for Rice have to do with Sam? Is there some kind of connection between anti-gay cake smearing and pro-wife beating?

 

[Hang 10]

I get so confused when people make statements like the one Tim made earlier. Basically, there's a suggestion that if you were uncomfortable with the cake smearing that you are ok with domestic violence. It's one of the dumber things brought up, and just because some loon brought it up somewhere else, doesn't validate it to be brought up again.

I don't think that's what he's saying.I think what he's saying is that people soured on Michael Sam because he's flaunting his gayness, while the Ravens are tweeting about Ray Rice's domestic violence and how they're standing by him, and that seems ludicrous.

And the rams aren't supporting Sam? Still not seeing the irony.

 

[timschochet]

I get so confused when people make statements like the one Tim made earlier. Basically, there's a suggestion that if you were uncomfortable with the cake smearing that you are ok with domestic violence. It's one of the dumber things brought up, and just because some loon brought it up somewhere else, doesn't validate it to be brought up again.

I don't think that's what he's saying.I think what he's saying is that people soured on Michael Sam because he's flaunting his gayness, while the Ravens are tweeting about Ray Rice's domestic violence and how they're standing by him, and that seems ludicrous.

I'm not seeing the connection. What does support or lack of support for Rice have to do with Sam? Is there some kind of connection between anti-gay cake smearing and pro-wife beating?

That's fine. If you don't see the irony, then that's your opinion, and we can simply disagree and move on. People can disagree on this issue- in the larger scheme of things in this thread (which is about Ray Rice) it's rather insignificant. But I wasn't trying to attack anyone and I don't get the "you're the worst" responses.

 

[Christo]

I get so confused when people make statements like the one Tim made earlier. Basically, there's a suggestion that if you were uncomfortable with the cake smearing that you are ok with domestic violence. It's one of the dumber things brought up, and just because some loon brought it up somewhere else, doesn't validate it to be brought up again.

I don't think that's what he's saying.I think what he's saying is that people soured on Michael Sam because he's flaunting his gayness, while the Ravens are tweeting about Ray Rice's domestic violence and how they're standing by him, and that seems ludicrous.

I'm not seeing the connection. What does support or lack of support for Rice have to do with Sam? Is there some kind of connection between anti-gay cake smearing and pro-wife beating?

That's fine. If you don't see the irony, then that's your opinion, and we can simply disagree and move on. People can disagree on this issue- in the larger scheme of things in this thread (which is about Ray Rice) it's rather insignificant. But I wasn't trying to attack anyone and I don't get the "you're the worst" responses.

There's nothing ironic about it.

 

[Henry Ford]

I get so confused when people make statements like the one Tim made earlier. Basically, there's a suggestion that if you were uncomfortable with the cake smearing that you are ok with domestic violence. It's one of the dumber things brought up, and just because some loon brought it up somewhere else, doesn't validate it to be brought up again.

I don't think that's what he's saying.I think what he's saying is that people soured on Michael Sam because he's flaunting his gayness, while the Ravens are tweeting about Ray Rice's domestic violence and how they're standing by him, and that seems ludicrous.

And the rams aren't supporting Sam? Still not seeing the irony.

I don't see irony, either, but I at least understand what he's saying.

 

[Freelove]

I get so confused when people make statements like the one Tim made earlier. Basically, there's a suggestion that if you were uncomfortable with the cake smearing that you are ok with domestic violence. It's one of the dumber things brought up, and just because some loon brought it up somewhere else, doesn't validate it to be brought up again.

I don't think that's what he's saying.I think what he's saying is that people soured on Michael Sam because he's flaunting his gayness, while the Ravens are tweeting about Ray Rice's domestic violence and how they're standing by him, and that seems ludicrous.

And the rams aren't supporting Sam? Still not seeing the irony.

I don't see irony, either, but I at least understand what he's saying.

There's at least some irony in the idea that there are some people who profess that it's the most obvious thing in the world that Ray Rice is deserving of censure because he perpetrated an act of violence upon his romantic partner on camera, while condemning Michael Sam for the exact opposite. I'm not sure how many people fall under that umbrella, though. Probably not enough to paint the entire situation as ironic.

There's probably a different level of linguistic irony inherent in the idea that the people in charge of downplaying the importance of acts of violence and intimacy between love partners that happened to be caught on camera are said to be promoting public relations.

 

[Ned]

I think where Tim is going with this is look at the attention the Sam thing got vs the attention the Rice thing has gotten. It's downright sad that a guy's sexuality garners more attention than some chicken#### thug pounding on his fiancée.

 

[timschochet]

I think where Tim is going with this is look at the attention the Sam thing got vs the attention the Rice thing has gotten. It's downright sad that a guy's sexuality garners more attention than some chicken#### thug pounding on his fiancée.

Thank you. Exactly my point. You're the best!

 

[Freelove]

Why do we want more attention for those showing how easy it is to go consequence-free when they abuse their lovers? Why do we want less for those expressing their gay cake love?

 

[Jeff Vader]

I think where Tim is going with this is look at the attention the Sam thing got vs the attention the Rice thing has gotten. It's downright sad that a guy's sexuality garners more attention than some chicken#### thug pounding on his fiancée.

Thank you. Exactly my point. You're the best!

Agree with Ned, but Tim didn't exactly put it that way, hence the Timification of this thread.

 

[Jeff Vader]

Why do we want more attention for those showing how easy it is to go consequence-free when they abuse their lovers? Why do we want less for those expressing their gay cake love?

Because one should be a bigger deal than it is, and the other should be a far lesser deal than it is.

 

[timschochet]

I think where Tim is going with this is look at the attention the Sam thing got vs the attention the Rice thing has gotten. It's downright sad that a guy's sexuality garners more attention than some chicken#### thug pounding on his fiancée.

Thank you. Exactly my point. You're the best!

Agree with Ned, but Tim didn't exactly put it that way, hence the Timification of this thread.

I may not have been as clear, but I guarantee that the people who wrote "youre the worst" understood my point completely; they just didn't like hearing it.

 

[Andrew74]

I think where Tim is going with this is look at the attention the Sam thing got vs the attention the Rice thing has gotten. It's downright sad that a guy's sexuality garners more attention than some chicken#### thug pounding on his fiancée.

Thank you. Exactly my point. You're the best!

Agree with Ned, but Tim didn't exactly put it that way, hence the Timification of this thread.

I may not have been as clear, but I guarantee that the people who wrote "youre the worst" understood my point completely; they just didn't like hearing it.

No you didn't make that point at all. Maybe you can hire Ned to type for you cause his point was quite clear.

 

[Freelove]

Why do we want more attention for those showing how easy it is to go consequence-free when they abuse their lovers? Why do we want less for those expressing their gay cake love?

Because one should be a bigger deal than it is, and the other should be a far lesser deal than it is.

I'm not at all sure I agree with this.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think where Tim is going with this is look at the attention the Sam thing got vs the attention the Rice thing has gotten. It's downright sad that a guy's sexuality garners more attention than some chicken#### thug pounding on his fiancée.

Thank you. Exactly my point. You're the best!

Agree with Ned, but Tim didn't exactly put it that way, hence the Timification of this thread.

I may not have been as clear, but I guarantee that the people who wrote "youre the worst" understood my point completely; they just didn't like hearing it.

No you didn't make that point at all. Maybe you can hire Ned to type for you cause his point was quite clear.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I think where Tim is going with this is look at the attention the Sam thing got vs the attention the Rice thing has gotten. It's downright sad that a guy's sexuality garners more attention than some chicken#### thug pounding on his fiancée.

OK, but even that doesn't make sense. Sam got a whole lot more positive attention than negative attention. I don't think it was even close on that. He was being praised and exhalted from all over. The biggest negative reaction was a nobody for the Dolphins that tweeted "OMG. Horrible"

The Rice story hasn't garnered a ton of negative reaction yet, but my bet is that once the sports radio machine starts churning this week that a lot more attention will be paid.

Even then, it's still mainly a matter of media coverage. The Ray Rice thing has gotten very little coverage by the media while the Michael Sam thing has been a huge media story. I think people are letting the size of the media coverage influence their perception of the public's opinion on things.

I should note that this doesn't apply to Tim who quite clearly inferred that there are a lot of people that are opposed to gays but OK with domestic violence.

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

NFL punishment scale:

1 game - illegal hit on another player's knee
2 games - illegal hit on your wife's face
3 games - say you want to murder all of the gay people in the world
4 games - smoke a little dope
16 games - smoke a lot of dope

Well done, NFL!

 

[Godsbrother]

2 games is a slap on the wrist (no pun intended). Given the video footage he should have gotten a minimum 4 games.

Not surprised though, the suspension policy is so inconsistent it makes no sense, never has.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

Protect the shield.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Terrible message

 

[timschochet]

Tony Dungy thinks we should be more forgiving about this.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Terrible.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Tony Dungy thinks we should be more forgiving about this.

The violent criminal who starred in Dungy's offense in Indianapolis had the good sense to keep a low profile in order to avoid becoming a distraction.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

You guys are being too hard on the NFL about this. The NFL loves women. Just think how many players are going to wear pink **** for a month this season.

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

You guys are being too hard on the NFL about this. The NFL loves women. Just think how many players are going to wear pink **** for a month this season.

The perfect gift for those times you need to say, "I'm sorry I knocked you out and dragged you across a casino floor":

http://www.nflshop.com/NFL_Baltimore_Ravens/Ray_Rice_Baltimore_Ravens_Womens_Draft_Him_Shimmer_V-Neck_T-Shirt_-_Pink/source/ak1944nfl-pla-1168081-1?003=14180831&CS_010=1168081-1&CAWELAID=820564520000042698&CAGPSPN=pla

 

[Binky The Doormat]

I think when he said "She brought that #### on herself" it wasn't as funny as when Eddie Murphy says it.

 

[Hang 10]

How many games did his wife get suspended for her role in the incident?

 

[TobiasFunke]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

 

[Godsbrother]

You guys are being too hard on the NFL about this. The NFL loves women. Just think how many players are going to wear pink **** for a month this season.

The perfect gift for those times you need to say, "I'm sorry I knocked you out and dragged you across a casino floor":

http://www.nflshop.com/NFL_Baltimore_Ravens/Ray_Rice_Baltimore_Ravens_Womens_Draft_Him_Shimmer_V-Neck_T-Shirt_-_Pink/source/ak1944nfl-pla-1168081-1?003=14180831&CS_010=1168081-1&CAWELAID=820564520000042698&CAGPSPN=pla

It would be even better if it was a beater shirt

 

[Rayderr]

2 games is a slap on the wrist (no pun intended). Given the video footage he should have gotten a minimum 4 games.

Not surprised though, the suspension policy is so inconsistent it makes no sense, never has.

Possibility of a plea deal here? Rice has said that he will serve the suspension. Perhaps if it was 4, he would've appealed, been appealed again, gone to arbitration and ended up serving 2 or less. Remember all those suspensions handed out against the Saints? Just because a commissioner suspends someone doesn't mean they will actually serve the suspension.

 

[cheese]

NFL punishment scale:

1 game - illegal hit on another player's knee

2 games - illegal hit on your wife's face

3 games - say you want to murder all of the gay people in the world

4 games - smoke a little dope

16 games - smoke a lot of dope

Well done, NFL!

5 games- get a free tattoo back in college

 

[timschochet]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

We are, as a society, more forgiving of celebrities who are abusive towards women, especially if they are connected to athletics. This is an obvious truth.

What should we do about it?

 

[TobiasFunke]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

We are, as a society, more forgiving of celebrities who are abusive towards women, especially if they are connected to athletics. This is an obvious truth.

What should we do about it?

That's a much deeper and more difficult issue than I was getting at, which is that the NBA/MLB fans and media who are railing specifically on the NFL today need to look in the mirror.

 

[Hang 10]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

The NFL has long been known to be the sports league with far and away the most criminals. Part of that probably has to do with the fact there's more players in the NFL than the other leagues but there's a reason people perceive this as an NFL problem.

 

[JB Breakfast Club]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

You are right. I don't know a lot about the different CBAs of the leagues, but I believe the NFL is the only one trying to use a "code of conduct" that allows it to suspend players when they aren't actually convicted of crimes. I know the NBA and the Timberwolves weren't allowed to suspend Dante Cuningham last year when his domestic abuse arrest occurred. I'm waiting to see what happens there once the case is actually heard in court.

That said, I wrote to the Timberwolves and told them I would want a refund of my season tickets if they added Lance Stephenson as a free agent. Other than that, I try to raise awareness about these scumbags via social media so fans know what they are choosing to support. Can't do much else than talk with my wallet and the limited voice I have on the internet.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

We are, as a society, more forgiving of celebrities who are abusive towards women, especially if they are connected to athletics. This is an obvious truth.

What should we do about it?

That's a much deeper and more difficult issue than I was getting at, which is that the NBA/MLB fans and media who are railing specifically on the NFL today need to look in the mirror.

I recommend more pink clothing options.

 

[timschochet]

But it's a legitimate question. I don't need to start a new thread to discuss it; we can do that here, if anyone wants to. Why are we so much more forgiving of athletes who abuse women than we are of ordinary people who do the same? What is wrong with us that we tolerate this? (And I use "we" purposefully- I root for two teams, the Steelers and the Lakers, that both feature star athletes that have been accused of rape and may very well be guilty- or not.) How should we change this? Or should we change it?

 

[Zigg]

I'm going to go check this out in the SP, wish me luck.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

We are, as a society, more forgiving of celebrities who are abusive towards women, especially if they are connected to athletics. This is an obvious truth.

What should we do about it?

I'd say the first step would be to stop idolizing guys like Kobe and Big Ben. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[mquinnjr]

Is it bad that the first thing I thought of is how big of a value he is right now around $15 in auction?

 

[Mister CIA]

I'm going to go check this out in the SP, wish me luck.

Welcome back in advance.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

But it's a legitimate question. I don't need to start a new thread to discuss it; we can do that here, if anyone wants to. Why are we so much more forgiving of athletes who abuse women than we are of ordinary people who do the same? What is wrong with us that we tolerate this? (And I use "we" purposefully- I root for two teams, the Steelers and the Lakers, that both feature star athletes that have been accused of rape and may very well be guilty- or not.) How should we change this? Or should we change it?

Who's to say we're more forgiving about it? The difference between athletes who beat their wives and gas station attendants who beat their wives is that someone tells me that the athlete has beaten his wife. I'm not sure I know of a non-celebrity who has been arrested for domestic violence. Not that it doesn't happen, but I'd just have no way of knowing.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about it. I've done some pro bono helping women get restraining orders if they need them. I suppose I could do more of that. But I'm not going around making sure that no wife beaters can hold jobs.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I'm going to go check this out in the SP, wish me luck.

While you're over there, please find out when we should draft a top-tier D/ST.

 

[timschochet]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

We are, as a society, more forgiving of celebrities who are abusive towards women, especially if they are connected to athletics. This is an obvious truth.

What should we do about it?

I'd say the first step would be to stop idolizing guys like Kobe and Big Ben. Wouldn't you agree?

As I just pointed out, this is a fair criticism, except that my excuse is that neither guy was found to be guilty, so I absolve myself by believing that they are innocent. Ray Rice, on the other hand, is clearly guilty of physically abusing his wife. Is it wrong for Baltimore Ravens fans to continue to cheer for Ray Rice? Are they, by cheering for him and the team that pays his salary, enabling his behavior?

 

[timschochet]

But it's a legitimate question. I don't need to start a new thread to discuss it; we can do that here, if anyone wants to. Why are we so much more forgiving of athletes who abuse women than we are of ordinary people who do the same? What is wrong with us that we tolerate this? (And I use "we" purposefully- I root for two teams, the Steelers and the Lakers, that both feature star athletes that have been accused of rape and may very well be guilty- or not.) How should we change this? Or should we change it?

Who's to say we're more forgiving about it? The difference between athletes who beat their wives and gas station attendants who beat their wives is that someone tells me that the athlete has beaten his wife. I'm not sure I know of a non-celebrity who has been arrested for domestic violence. Not that it doesn't happen, but I'd just have no way of knowing.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about it. I've done some pro bono helping women get restraining orders if they need them. I suppose I could do more of that. But I'm not going around making sure that no wife beaters can hold jobs.

If you knew the gas station attendant beat up his wife, would you stop going to that particular gas station?