Ray Rice's Domestic Abuse Presser Sends Wrong Message (2 Viewers)

[Cliff Clavin]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

We are, as a society, more forgiving of celebrities who are abusive towards women, especially if they are connected to athletics. This is an obvious truth.

What should we do about it?

I'd say the first step would be to stop idolizing guys like Kobe and Big Ben. Wouldn't you agree?

As I just pointed out, this is a fair criticism, except that my excuse is that neither guy was found to be guilty, so I absolve myself by believing that they are innocent. Ray Rice, on the other hand, is clearly guilty of physically abusing his wife. Is it wrong for Baltimore Ravens fans to continue to cheer for Ray Rice? Are they, by cheering for him and the team that pays his salary, enabling his behavior?

Bury your head in the sand so you can sleep better

 

[TobiasFunke]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

We are, as a society, more forgiving of celebrities who are abusive towards women, especially if they are connected to athletics. This is an obvious truth.

What should we do about it?

I'd say the first step would be to stop idolizing guys like Kobe and Big Ben. Wouldn't you agree?

As I just pointed out, this is a fair criticism, except that my excuse is that neither guy was found to be guilty, so I absolve myself by believing that they are innocent. Ray Rice, on the other hand, is clearly guilty of physically abusing his wife. Is it wrong for Baltimore Ravens fans to continue to cheer for Ray Rice? Are they, by cheering for him and the team that pays his salary, enabling his behavior?

He hasn't been convicted. He's been indicted, so I guess you can separate him from Kobe and Big Ben by that if you want to grasp at straws. OTOH this is a one-time incident as far as we know with Rice, while Roethlisberger has faced at least three sexual assault allegations from separate incidents. And if you read the police report of his arrest it's just as hard to believe he's innocent as it is to believe Rice is innocent after watching him drag his fiancee out of the elevator.

 

[Godsbrother]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

We are, as a society, more forgiving of celebrities who are abusive towards women, especially if they are connected to athletics. This is an obvious truth.

What should we do about it?

I'd say the first step would be to stop idolizing guys like Kobe and Big Ben. Wouldn't you agree?

As I just pointed out, this is a fair criticism, except that my excuse is that neither guy was found to be guilty, so I absolve myself by believing that they are innocent. Ray Rice, on the other hand, is clearly guilty of physically abusing his wife. Is it wrong for Baltimore Ravens fans to continue to cheer for Ray Rice? Are they, by cheering for him and the team that pays his salary, enabling his behavior?

He hasn't been convicted. He's been indicted, so I guess you can separate him from Kobe and Big Ben by that if you want to grasp at straws. OTOH this is a one-time incident as far as we know with Rice, while Roethlisberger has faced at least three sexual assault allegations from separate incidents. And if you read the police report of his arrest it's just as hard to believe he's innocent as it is to believe Rice is innocent after watching him drag his fiancee out of the elevator.

Not to nitpick but to my knowledge there are only two allegations of sexual assault against Roethlisberger: one in Milledgeville and one in Lake Tahoe. Also Roethlisberger was never arrested, indicted or charged with a crime due to insufficient evidence

In Ray Rice's case there is video evidence of him punching a woman and dragging her unconscious body. I think Rice deserved at the minimum the same sentence as Roethlisberger.

 

[TobiasFunke]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

We are, as a society, more forgiving of celebrities who are abusive towards women, especially if they are connected to athletics. This is an obvious truth.

What should we do about it?

I'd say the first step would be to stop idolizing guys like Kobe and Big Ben. Wouldn't you agree?

As I just pointed out, this is a fair criticism, except that my excuse is that neither guy was found to be guilty, so I absolve myself by believing that they are innocent. Ray Rice, on the other hand, is clearly guilty of physically abusing his wife. Is it wrong for Baltimore Ravens fans to continue to cheer for Ray Rice? Are they, by cheering for him and the team that pays his salary, enabling his behavior?

He hasn't been convicted. He's been indicted, so I guess you can separate him from Kobe and Big Ben by that if you want to grasp at straws. OTOH this is a one-time incident as far as we know with Rice, while Roethlisberger has faced at least three sexual assault allegations from separate incidents. And if you read the police report of his arrest it's just as hard to believe he's innocent as it is to believe Rice is innocent after watching him drag his fiancee out of the elevator.

Not to nitpick but to my knowledge there are only two allegations of sexual assault against Roethlisberger: one in Milledgeville and one in Lake Tahoe. Also Roethlisberger was never arrested, indicted or charged with a crime due to insufficient evidence

In Ray Rice's case there is video evidence of him punching a woman and dragging her unconscious body. I think Rice deserved at the minimum the same sentence as Roethlisberger.

Third allegation (two separate incidents), also in Milledgeville

By all accounts he was never charged due to "insufficient evidence" for one reason- because the victim, who was the only witness to the crime, decided she would not testify. Statement from her lawyer:

...a criminal trial would be a very intrusive personal experience for a complainant in this situation, given the extraordinary media attention that would be inevitable. The media coverage to date, and the efforts of the media to access our client, have been unnerving, to say the least.

You wanna give him the benefit of the doubt based on that after reading all those different stories and reports, that's your choice.

 

[timschochet]

All right tobias, you seem to want to focus on my personal hypocrisy, and that's fine, but putting that aside, how would you address the main question I raised? Let's assume that we KNOW that Ray Rice is guilty or Ben Roethlisberger is guilty or whichever athlete you want to name. Is it morally wrong for a sports fan to continue to cheer for that athlete? Is that fan helping to enable that athlete's bad behavior by cheering for him?

 

[TobiasFunke]

All right tobias, you seem to want to focus on my personal hypocrisy, and that's fine, but putting that aside, how would you address the main question I raised? Let's assume that we KNOW that Ray Rice is guilty or Ben Roethlisberger is guilty or whichever athlete you want to name. Is it morally wrong for a sports fan to continue to cheer for that athlete? Is that fan helping to enable that athlete's bad behavior by cheering for him?

Not really. I don't care who you cheer for. If you're not harming anyone else I'm not gonna get into the morality of whatever you're doing, and nobody gets harmed by sports fandom. I personally would have a hard time rooting for someone like Roethlisberger (I see a lot more ambiguity with Kobe based on the police reports and the fact that it's a one time incident as opposed to a longstanding pattern of sexual aggression and general dooshbaggery). But that's your choice.

I just pointed it out since you asked the question of why we overlook stuff and overlooked stuff about Ben in the same breath.

 

[Clifford]

NFL value system

multiple drug arrests = 1 year ban

beating the ever-living #### out of a woman = 2 game ban

Man that is seriously messes up.

 

[timschochet]

But it's a larger issue than even the big star professional athletes. Have any of you guys read that book The System, about college football? There are some pretty scary stories in there about these coddled athletes that come to school as freshmen, do whatever they want with women and then get away with it. One particularly bad incident that happened a few years back at BYU is related- (and BYU is not exactly the first place I would think of in which this sort of stuff would happen.)

For years the coach I respected the most in college football was Tom Osborne. And then one day Lawrence Phillips dragged his girlfriend, by the hair, down a flight of stairs. He was suspended from the team, but brought back to play in the National Championship game. All the Husker fans cheered, and Nebraska won the game, and Phillips was treated as a hero. Then he was a first round draft pick.

 

[Cjw_55106]

NFL value system

multiple drug arrests = 1 year ban

beating the ever-living #### out of a woman = 2 game ban

Man that is seriously messes up.

Did it ever cross your mind that the drugs didnt ask for it?

Ok, I kid, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for the lady that runs back to her abuser.

 

[Clifford]

I think you could make more progress by focusing on a single issue. The #yesallwomen girls should be all over the NFLs and Ravens social feeds making a huge ####### stink of this.

 

[Clifford]

NFL value system

multiple drug arrests = 1 year ban

beating the ever-living #### out of a woman = 2 game ban

Man that is seriously messes up.

Did it ever cross your mind that the drugs didnt ask for it?

Ok, I kid, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for the lady that runs back to her abuser.

I used to be the same until my sister started working in violence prevention for abused women. She corrected me on the subject. I have come to understand it is far more complex than just leaving the partner in most cases. And there's a lot more to the mental side of the game than just being able to get away from the man and support yourself without him.

 

[Cjw_55106]

NFL value system

multiple drug arrests = 1 year ban

beating the ever-living #### out of a woman = 2 game ban

Man that is seriously messes up.

Did it ever cross your mind that the drugs didnt ask for it?

Ok, I kid, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for the lady that runs back to her abuser.

I used to be the same until my sister started working in violence prevention for abused women. She corrected me on the subject. I have come to understand it is far more complex than just leaving the partner in most cases. And there's a lot more to the mental side of the game than just being able to get away from the man and support yourself without him.

I agree with that. That being said, its probably a million times easier to get out when the guy is high profile.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

NFL value system

multiple drug arrests = 1 year ban

beating the ever-living #### out of a woman = 2 game ban

Man that is seriously messes up.

Hard to argue with this.

 

[Clifford]

She (my sister) have always said they have the easiest road in terms of physical needs, but the emotional attachment and mental mind-scrambling are the same across the economic spectrum.

Even if she has the means, we have no idea if he's telling her he'll kill her and her family if she leaves him. And after the beating she took why wouldn't she believe him?

AFAIAC, the NFL needs to decide what kind of message it wants to send. Right now, the message is "we really don't give a crap if you beat up women. Just don't smoke weed."

 

[Godsbrother]

As poorly as this reflects on the NFL and some NFL media, the fans of other sports and the media who cover those sports condemning this as an NFL problem are pretty stupid. Just yesterday I saw a commercial on MLB network for the HOF induction ceremony of Bobby Cox that treated him like royalty. And for years the basketball media have treated Lance Stephenson as a quirky but sort of endearing weirdo and completely ignored the fact that he pushed a girlfriend down a flight of stairs and smashed her head on the bottom stair. He was already under contract with the Pacers at the time and to my knowledge the NBA never took any disciplinary action. This ain't a football or NFl problem.

We are, as a society, more forgiving of celebrities who are abusive towards women, especially if they are connected to athletics. This is an obvious truth.

What should we do about it?

I'd say the first step would be to stop idolizing guys like Kobe and Big Ben. Wouldn't you agree?

As I just pointed out, this is a fair criticism, except that my excuse is that neither guy was found to be guilty, so I absolve myself by believing that they are innocent. Ray Rice, on the other hand, is clearly guilty of physically abusing his wife. Is it wrong for Baltimore Ravens fans to continue to cheer for Ray Rice? Are they, by cheering for him and the team that pays his salary, enabling his behavior?

He hasn't been convicted. He's been indicted, so I guess you can separate him from Kobe and Big Ben by that if you want to grasp at straws. OTOH this is a one-time incident as far as we know with Rice, while Roethlisberger has faced at least three sexual assault allegations from separate incidents. And if you read the police report of his arrest it's just as hard to believe he's innocent as it is to believe Rice is innocent after watching him drag his fiancee out of the elevator.

Not to nitpick but to my knowledge there are only two allegations of sexual assault against Roethlisberger: one in Milledgeville and one in Lake Tahoe. Also Roethlisberger was never arrested, indicted or charged with a crime due to insufficient evidence

In Ray Rice's case there is video evidence of him punching a woman and dragging her unconscious body. I think Rice deserved at the minimum the same sentence as Roethlisberger.

Third allegation (two separate incidents), also in Milledgeville

By all accounts he was never charged due to "insufficient evidence" for one reason- because the victim, who was the only witness to the crime, decided she would not testify. Statement from her lawyer:

...a criminal trial would be a very intrusive personal experience for a complainant in this situation, given the extraordinary media attention that would be inevitable. The media coverage to date, and the efforts of the media to access our client, have been unnerving, to say the least.

You wanna give him the benefit of the doubt based on that after reading all those different stories and reports, that's your choice.

I was just correcting you that only two allegations were made, one in a civil case and another in a criminal and also that he was never arrested.

I am not here to defend Roethlisberger or protest the suspension he got. But don't you think that a man that is arrested for assault and with video evidence of him punching a woman and another video released on the internet showing him dragging her unconscious body around warrants at the very least the same suspension?

 

[Billy Bats]

Olberman has his say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=6fc_AnLaBew

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Oh, for ****''s sake, Steven A.

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

But it's a larger issue than even the big star professional athletes. Have any of you guys read that book The System, about college football? There are some pretty scary stories in there about these coddled athletes that come to school as freshmen, do whatever they want with women and then get away with it. One particularly bad incident that happened a few years back at BYU is related- (and BYU is not exactly the first place I would think of in which this sort of stuff would happen.)

For years the coach I respected the most in college football was Tom Osborne. And then one day Lawrence Phillips dragged his girlfriend, by the hair, down a flight of stairs. He was suspended from the team, but brought back to play in the National Championship game. All the Husker fans cheered, and Nebraska won the game, and Phillips was treated as a hero. Then he was a first round draft pick.

He was reinstated for 3 games before the National Championship. There were and are a lot of Husker fans that don't consider Phillips a hero.

 

[Clifford]

Oh, for ****''s sake, Steven A.

And the dumb get dumber. Even Bayless stopped agreeing with him when he went there.

 

[IC FBGCav]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

 

[Clifford]

Is there doubt that he knocked her unconscious?

 

[Abraham]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

I think dragging a woman - awake or asleep - by her hair by itself is worth a multi-game suspension. The fact that Ravens didn't cut him immediately is telling about their organization, and the fact that the NFL didn't suspend him for the year is telling about their priorities. Be that as it may, I am actually quite shocked that this is where the conclusion ended. How is there not someone in both the Ravens org and the NFL PR department that doesn't stand up and yell, "Do you guys realize how bad this is going to look to our customers?" Nevermind if they care about domestic violence or whatever, even the most junior PR intern would have sniffed out that imminent backlash and critical response.

 

[timschochet]

Two Texas Longhorns wide receivers charged with sexual assault:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11258187/kendall-sanders-montrel-meander-texas-longhorns-charged-sexual-assault

 

[Abraham]

Two Texas Longhorns wide receivers charged with sexual assault:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11258187/kendall-sanders-montrel-meander-texas-longhorns-charged-sexual-assault

WTF does that have to do with this?

 

[Parrothead]

need to get a big group to go to a game and all wear egg and mustard stained white T-shirts with '27' on the back..

 

[IC FBGCav]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

I am not as smart as you to assume things. I have no idea what happened. From what I saw I know it doesn't look good but I will not assume that I know what went on in there. Plus how do you know it was a punch? Maybe he pushed her and her head hit off the wall of the elevator? Maybe she was attacking him when he pushed her? Maybe he just went Tyson on Glass Joe? All I know is I don't know.

 

[timschochet]

Two Texas Longhorns wide receivers charged with sexual assault:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11258187/kendall-sanders-montrel-meander-texas-longhorns-charged-sexual-assault

WTF does that have to do with this?

Earlier I posted that we have a sports culture in this country which seems forgiving of sexual assault. You don't think that if Ray Rice and other star athletes are only slapped on the hand, that doesn't give young athletes the impression that they can get away with anything? I think it does. (And no, I'm not saying that the SPECIFIC punishment to Ray Rice had any effect on this, only the culture.)

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Maybe she has African Fainting Disease!

 

[Abraham]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

I am not as smart as you to assume things. I have no idea what happened. From what I saw I know it doesn't look good but I will not assume that I know what went on in there. Plus how do you know it was a punch? Maybe he pushed her and her head hit off the wall of the elevator? Maybe she was attacking him when he pushed her? Maybe he just went Tyson on Glass Joe? All I know is I don't know.

Why does it matter what happened? I didn't see Aaron Hernandez shoot those guys either but I can draw the reasonable conclusion that he was probably involved.

 

[Abraham]

Two Texas Longhorns wide receivers charged with sexual assault:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11258187/kendall-sanders-montrel-meander-texas-longhorns-charged-sexual-assault

WTF does that have to do with this?

Earlier I posted that we have a sports culture in this country which seems forgiving of sexual assault. You don't think that if Ray Rice and other star athletes are only slapped on the hand, that doesn't give young athletes the impression that they can get away with anything? I think it does. (And no, I'm not saying that the SPECIFIC punishment to Ray Rice had any effect on this, only the culture.)

Ray Rice is accused of sexual assault?

ETA: I[m not sure it will come as a surprise to anyone that as ANY notability or fame metric increases, the tolerance of society at large when it comes to bad judgement increases as well.

 

[IC FBGCav]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

I am not as smart as you to assume things. I have no idea what happened. From what I saw I know it doesn't look good but I will not assume that I know what went on in there. Plus how do you know it was a punch? Maybe he pushed her and her head hit off the wall of the elevator? Maybe she was attacking him when he pushed her? Maybe he just went Tyson on Glass Joe? All I know is I don't know.

Why does it matter what happened? I didn't see Aaron Hernandez shoot those guys either but I can draw the reasonable conclusion that he was probably involved.

Really......did you say the same thing about Duke Lacrosse?

 

[jonessed]

I would guess that the NFL is wary of long suspensions without a guilty verdict. I really see this as more if a failure on the Ravens' organization. They have more latitude in these matters since he is their player.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

I am not as smart as you to assume things. I have no idea what happened. From what I saw I know it doesn't look good but I will not assume that I know what went on in there. Plus how do you know it was a punch? Maybe he pushed her and her head hit off the wall of the elevator? Maybe she was attacking him when he pushed her? Maybe he just went Tyson on Glass Joe? All I know is I don't know.

I don't know exactly what happened but there are a couple reasons I can assume this wasn't an accident or something. Most prominent among them is that neither party has said that's what happened or protested the accusations of assault in the media or with the Commissioner (Rice pleaded not guilty but that's different). There's also the fact that police who have seen the video arrested Rice for aggravated assault.

And frankly, even if he merely pushed her, I'm still pretty comfortable on my high horse. I'm 99.999% sure she wasn't wielding a gun or knife or other deadly weapon- would have been reported if she was. A football player should be able to avoid physical harm from an unarmed woman without pushing her with enough force to knock her out.

I hear what you're saying and usually agree with you, but all it takes is a little common sense here to realize that he did something unnecessarily violent to her that knocked her out. The rest is just details

 

[timschochet]

I would guess that the NFL is wary of long suspensions without a guilty verdict. I really see this as more if a failure on the Ravens' organization. They have more latitude in these matters since he is their player.

I agree with this. It's hard for me to see any extenuating circumstances here. Perhaps there are some that I am not aware of. But assuming its true that Ray Rice dragged his unconscious wife as described, if I owned the Ravens I would kick him off the team. Right now.

 

[IC FBGCav]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

I am not as smart as you to assume things. I have no idea what happened. From what I saw I know it doesn't look good but I will not assume that I know what went on in there. Plus how do you know it was a punch? Maybe he pushed her and her head hit off the wall of the elevator? Maybe she was attacking him when he pushed her? Maybe he just went Tyson on Glass Joe? All I know is I don't know.

I don't know exactly what happened but there are a couple reasons I can assume this wasn't an accident or something. Most prominent among them is that neither party has said that's what happened or protested the accusations of assault in the media or with the Commissioner (Rice pleaded not guilty but that's different). There's also the fact that police who have seen the video arrested Rice for aggravated assault.

And frankly, even if he merely pushed her, I'm still pretty comfortable on my high horse. I'm 99.999% sure she wasn't wielding a gun or knife or other deadly weapon- would have been reported if she was. A football player should be able to avoid physical harm from an unarmed woman without pushing her with enough force to knock her out.

I hear what you're saying and usually agree with you, but all it takes is a little common sense here to realize that he did something unnecessarily violent to her that knocked her out. The rest is just details

And the DA that seen the video was pretty lelant. Which is probably the biggest indicator to me that he didn't go Tyson.

 

[Abraham]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

I am not as smart as you to assume things. I have no idea what happened. From what I saw I know it doesn't look good but I will not assume that I know what went on in there. Plus how do you know it was a punch? Maybe he pushed her and her head hit off the wall of the elevator? Maybe she was attacking him when he pushed her? Maybe he just went Tyson on Glass Joe? All I know is I don't know.

Why does it matter what happened? I didn't see Aaron Hernandez shoot those guys either but I can draw the reasonable conclusion that he was probably involved.

Really......did you say the same thing about Duke Lacrosse?

I didn't see video of the "victim" in that instance coming out of a bedroom crying with her clothes torn off...

 

[IC FBGCav]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

I am not as smart as you to assume things. I have no idea what happened. From what I saw I know it doesn't look good but I will not assume that I know what went on in there. Plus how do you know it was a punch? Maybe he pushed her and her head hit off the wall of the elevator? Maybe she was attacking him when he pushed her? Maybe he just went Tyson on Glass Joe? All I know is I don't know.

Why does it matter what happened? I didn't see Aaron Hernandez shoot those guys either but I can draw the reasonable conclusion that he was probably involved.

Really......did you say the same thing about Duke Lacrosse?

I didn't see video of the "victim" in that instance coming out of a bedroom crying with her clothes torn off...

You didn't answer the question.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

I would guess that the NFL is wary of long suspensions without a guilty verdict. I really see this as more if a failure on the Ravens' organization. They have more latitude in these matters since he is their player.

Player conduct is the option for Goodell to levy discipline apart from the legal system and he has done so many times.

The failure is on Ray Rice alone, period.

The franchise can (and most likely) should have done something, anything, about this prior to meeting at the league offices. The presser w/ Rice's fiancee was as bad as possible. John Harbaugh's comments on this are a trainwreck, he comes off as a disaster on the leadership level of the team.

From the team press conf, to Harbaugh to Goodell, it's embarrasing for the league.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

I am not as smart as you to assume things. I have no idea what happened. From what I saw I know it doesn't look good but I will not assume that I know what went on in there. Plus how do you know it was a punch? Maybe he pushed her and her head hit off the wall of the elevator? Maybe she was attacking him when he pushed her? Maybe he just went Tyson on Glass Joe? All I know is I don't know.

I don't know exactly what happened but there are a couple reasons I can assume this wasn't an accident or something. Most prominent among them is that neither party has said that's what happened or protested the accusations of assault in the media or with the Commissioner (Rice pleaded not guilty but that's different). There's also the fact that police who have seen the video arrested Rice for aggravated assault.

And frankly, even if he merely pushed her, I'm still pretty comfortable on my high horse. I'm 99.999% sure she wasn't wielding a gun or knife or other deadly weapon- would have been reported if she was. A football player should be able to avoid physical harm from an unarmed woman without pushing her with enough force to knock her out.

I hear what you're saying and usually agree with you, but all it takes is a little common sense here to realize that he did something unnecessarily violent to her that knocked her out. The rest is just details

And the DA that seen the video was pretty lelant. Which is probably the biggest indicator to me that he didn't go Tyson.

The DA charged him with assault after viewing the incident and the grand jury upped it to aggravated assault after doing the same. It's a felony charge. There is NOTHING lenient about that. Maybe you're referring to the plea deal; that seems like a normal instance of a prosecutor deciding to save time and resources for a first-time felon after he and the victim make nice, nothing more.

Also there's this from the police report:

The assault took place in the hotel elevator, according to the indictment announcement. According to the complaint filed by an Atlantic City Police officer, Rice knocked Palmer unconscious by striking her with his hand. Video of Rice dragging Palmer out of an elevator in the casino surfaced in the days after the arrest and it has been reported that police have "video evidence of the blow."

Seems like you're having to strain credulity to explain away everything that happened since that moment while still maintaining that it's possible he didn't do anything really wrong. Meanwhile, if you assume he punched her then everything that's happened since that moment makes perfect sense. That should tell you something.

 

[Rayderr]

I would guess that the NFL is wary of long suspensions without a guilty verdict. I really see this as more if a failure on the Ravens' organization. They have more latitude in these matters since he is their player.

Player conduct is the option for Goodell to levy discipline apart from the legal system and he has done so many times.

The failure is on Ray Rice alone, period.

The franchise can (and most likely) should have done something, anything, about this prior to meeting at the league offices. The presser w/ Rice's fiancee was as bad as possible. John Harbaugh's comments on this are a trainwreck, he comes off as a disaster on the leadership level of the team.

From the team press conf, to Harbaugh to Goodell, it's embarrasing for the league.

But almost every time Goodell has handed out suspensions for player conduct, the NFLPA rides to the rescue and gets the suspension reduced or removed altogether. The fact that Rice has said that he's going to serve the suspension really makes me thing it was a plea deal. "2 games if you promise not to appeal or your looking at a much longer suspension which you may or may not get reduced in arbitration."

 

[Ned]

I would guess that the NFL is wary of long suspensions without a guilty verdict. I really see this as more if a failure on the Ravens' organization. They have more latitude in these matters since he is their player.

Player conduct is the option for Goodell to levy discipline apart from the legal system and he has done so many times.

The failure is on Ray Rice alone, period.

The franchise can (and most likely) should have done something, anything, about this prior to meeting at the league offices. The presser w/ Rice's fiancee was as bad as possible. John Harbaugh's comments on this are a trainwreck, he comes off as a disaster on the leadership level of the team.

From the team press conf, to Harbaugh to Goodell, it's embarrasing for the league.

But almost every time Goodell has handed out suspensions for player conduct, the NFLPA rides to the rescue and gets the suspension reduced or removed altogether. The fact that Rice has said that he's going to serve the suspension really makes me thing it was a plea deal. "2 games if you promise not to appeal or your looking at a much longer suspension which you may or may not get reduced in arbitration."

Regardless of making a deal or not, they still screwed it up. Had they dug their heels in and used their iron fist, things may not be so ugly for them right now. They should've said "you're getting 8 games because of your heinous actions - appeal all you want"; which puts this squarely on Rice and the NFLPA to make ###es out of themselves.

 

[IC FBGCav]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

I am not as smart as you to assume things. I have no idea what happened. From what I saw I know it doesn't look good but I will not assume that I know what went on in there. Plus how do you know it was a punch? Maybe he pushed her and her head hit off the wall of the elevator? Maybe she was attacking him when he pushed her? Maybe he just went Tyson on Glass Joe? All I know is I don't know.

I don't know exactly what happened but there are a couple reasons I can assume this wasn't an accident or something. Most prominent among them is that neither party has said that's what happened or protested the accusations of assault in the media or with the Commissioner (Rice pleaded not guilty but that's different). There's also the fact that police who have seen the video arrested Rice for aggravated assault.

And frankly, even if he merely pushed her, I'm still pretty comfortable on my high horse. I'm 99.999% sure she wasn't wielding a gun or knife or other deadly weapon- would have been reported if she was. A football player should be able to avoid physical harm from an unarmed woman without pushing her with enough force to knock her out.

I hear what you're saying and usually agree with you, but all it takes is a little common sense here to realize that he did something unnecessarily violent to her that knocked her out. The rest is just details

And the DA that seen the video was pretty lelant. Which is probably the biggest indicator to me that he didn't go Tyson.

The DA charged him with assault after viewing the incident and the grand jury upped it to aggravated assault after doing the same. It's a felony charge. There is NOTHING lenient about that. Maybe you're referring to the plea deal; that seems like a normal instance of a prosecutor deciding to save time and resources for a first-time felon after he and the victim make nice, nothing more.

Also there's this from the police report:

The assault took place in the hotel elevator, according to the indictment announcement. According to the complaint filed by an Atlantic City Police officer, Rice knocked Palmer unconscious by striking her with his hand. Video of Rice dragging Palmer out of an elevator in the casino surfaced in the days after the arrest and it has been reported that police have "video evidence of the blow."

Seems like you're having to strain credulity to explain away everything that happened since that moment while still maintaining that it's possible he didn't do anything really wrong. Meanwhile, if you assume he punched her then everything that's happened since that moment makes perfect sense. That should tell you something.

I am a Steeler's fan, I am not trying to do anything other than not jump to conclusions. I have never seen the police report. It would be interesting to see. If the cop saw the footage and saw the blow it would be more credible to me.

Plus no where I have said he did nothing wrong, I just don't know the extent of what he did and neither do you.

Last thing in that article is: The indictment is an accusation and not proof of guilt.

Which is all I am saying.

 

[Tackling Dummies]

I would guess that the NFL is wary of long suspensions without a guilty verdict. I really see this as more if a failure on the Ravens' organization. They have more latitude in these matters since he is their player.

Player conduct is the option for Goodell to levy discipline apart from the legal system and he has done so many times.

The failure is on Ray Rice alone, period.

The franchise can (and most likely) should have done something, anything, about this prior to meeting at the league offices. The presser w/ Rice's fiancee was as bad as possible. John Harbaugh's comments on this are a trainwreck, he comes off as a disaster on the leadership level of the team.

From the team press conf, to Harbaugh to Goodell, it's embarrasing for the league.

But almost every time Goodell has handed out suspensions for player conduct, the NFLPA rides to the rescue and gets the suspension reduced or removed altogether. The fact that Rice has said that he's going to serve the suspension really makes me thing it was a plea deal. "2 games if you promise not to appeal or your looking at a much longer suspension which you may or may not get reduced in arbitration."

Drop a 12 game vacation and reduce to 10.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't know about you all but I think I would want to see the tape in the elevator before I started riding the high horse.

I've never had an argument with a woman that ended with me having to drag her unconscious body anywhere, nor have I ever been indicted for aggravated assault or forced into counseling for domestic violence due to said incident. I'm fairly comfortable on my high horse without having to actually see the punch thrown, thank you.

What do you think is on that video? You think they're having a tickle fight and she slips and knocks herself out on the elevator handrail?

I am not as smart as you to assume things. I have no idea what happened. From what I saw I know it doesn't look good but I will not assume that I know what went on in there. Plus how do you know it was a punch? Maybe he pushed her and her head hit off the wall of the elevator? Maybe she was attacking him when he pushed her? Maybe he just went Tyson on Glass Joe? All I know is I don't know.

I don't know exactly what happened but there are a couple reasons I can assume this wasn't an accident or something. Most prominent among them is that neither party has said that's what happened or protested the accusations of assault in the media or with the Commissioner (Rice pleaded not guilty but that's different). There's also the fact that police who have seen the video arrested Rice for aggravated assault.

And frankly, even if he merely pushed her, I'm still pretty comfortable on my high horse. I'm 99.999% sure she wasn't wielding a gun or knife or other deadly weapon- would have been reported if she was. A football player should be able to avoid physical harm from an unarmed woman without pushing her with enough force to knock her out.

I hear what you're saying and usually agree with you, but all it takes is a little common sense here to realize that he did something unnecessarily violent to her that knocked her out. The rest is just details

And the DA that seen the video was pretty lelant. Which is probably the biggest indicator to me that he didn't go Tyson.

The DA charged him with assault after viewing the incident and the grand jury upped it to aggravated assault after doing the same. It's a felony charge. There is NOTHING lenient about that. Maybe you're referring to the plea deal; that seems like a normal instance of a prosecutor deciding to save time and resources for a first-time felon after he and the victim make nice, nothing more.

Also there's this from the police report:

The assault took place in the hotel elevator, according to the indictment announcement. According to the complaint filed by an Atlantic City Police officer, Rice knocked Palmer unconscious by striking her with his hand. Video of Rice dragging Palmer out of an elevator in the casino surfaced in the days after the arrest and it has been reported that police have "video evidence of the blow."

Seems like you're having to strain credulity to explain away everything that happened since that moment while still maintaining that it's possible he didn't do anything really wrong. Meanwhile, if you assume he punched her then everything that's happened since that moment makes perfect sense. That should tell you something.

I am a Steeler's fan, I am not trying to do anything other than not jump to conclusions. I have never seen the police report. It would be interesting to see. If the cop saw the footage and saw the blow it would be more credible to me.

Plus no where I have said he did nothing wrong, I just don't know the extent of what he did and neither do you.

Last thing in that article is: The indictment is an accusation and not proof of guilt.

Which is all I am saying.

No, you're saying a lot more than that. The article is just putting a legal disclaimer out there. You're telling people not to come to a common-sense conclusion despite overwhelming evidence supporting that conclusion even though there are no serious repercussions if it somehow turns out that the conclusion was false.

As far as the bolded,Sports Illustrated reports that police have video of assault

 

[TobiasFunke]

BTW if you're interested viewing a massive in progress, Stephen A is currently attempting to defend himself on twitter.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

BTW if you're interested viewing a massive in progress, Stephen A is currently attempting to defend himself on twitter.

Stephen A Smith @stephenasmith · 4m
Who on earth is denying that? But what about addressing women on how they can help prevent the obvious wrong being done upon them?
He still doesn't get it...

 

[MattFancy]

How does anyone watch First Take? Honestly. Good for Michelle Beadle for calling out Stephen A though.

 

[Ned]

BTW if you're interested viewing a massive in progress, Stephen A is currently attempting to defend himself on twitter.

Stephen A Smith @stephenasmith · 4m
Who on earth is denying that? But what about addressing women on how they can help prevent the obvious wrong being done upon them?
He still doesn't get it...

#### him.

 

[Tom Servo]

How does anyone watch First Take? Honestly. Good for Michelle Beadle for calling out Stephen A though.

Bolded the answer for you...otherwise it would be considered torture to show it in Gitmo.