Ray Rice's Domestic Abuse Presser Sends Wrong Message (1 Viewer)

[belljr]

Wife and I are in a friendly league with some Facebook friends of hers. We took Rice as our RB3, I couldn't pass him up in whatever round it was. No one said anything. Monday after the video breaks, commish tells my wife he couldn't believe we drafted Rice and that we still haven't dropped him. I had already queued up a bunch of WW claims dropping Rice so I had no inclination to drop him right away just to appease this ####wit. Yesterday he tells my wife if we don't drop Rice, he's suspending us from the league on "morals" grounds. I want to tell this guy off so bad.

We picked up Malcolm Floyd.

I would have taken the suspension.

and started him

 

[sublimeone]

Am I alone in thinking the media is blowing this way out of proportion?

Why is everyone clamoring for Goodells job? Did Goodell hit Ray Rice's wife in the face? Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters? This whole thing is bizarre. It's quickly becoming a witch hunt. It seems like a lot of people have an axe to grind with Goodell and this is their moment to take him down.

If the media should be in a frenzy over anything it should be with the judicial system letting Rice off with a slap on the wrist.

 

[belljr]

Explain to me why it's a deal if the tape was seen or not.

America is a bunch of Yentas

 

[RUSF18]

Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters?

The league has the ability to hand out punishment, in the form of activities within the league (not jail time). And when one man has declared himself the judge, jury, and executioner, of course that person's integrity and competence is fair game.

 

[Mister CIA]

Am I alone in thinking the media is blowing this way out of proportion?

Why is everyone clamoring for Goodells job? Did Goodell hit Ray Rice's wife in the face? Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters? This whole thing is bizarre. It's quickly becoming a witch hunt. It seems like a lot of people have an axe to grind with Goodell and this is their moment to take him down.

If the media should be in a frenzy over anything it should be with the judicial system letting Rice off with a slap on the wrist.

Yes, the media is sensationalizing the story, but then again, Goodell is turtle-ing up. No sympathy.

 

[datonn]

Am I alone in thinking the media is blowing this way out of proportion?

Why is everyone clamoring for Goodells job? Did Goodell hit Ray Rice's wife in the face? Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters? This whole thing is bizarre. It's quickly becoming a witch hunt. It seems like a lot of people have an axe to grind with Goodell and this is their moment to take him down.

If the media should be in a frenzy over anything it should be with the judicial system letting Rice off with a slap on the wrist.

It just goes to show how ####ed up priorities are for most of us. Sports are basically "religion" for millions in our society...and many/most folks know ten-times more about some moron who happens to be able to clock a 4.4 40 than they do about what's going on in their community, their local/regional/national politics, heck...how to balance their checkbooks! It's a comment on us as much as it is a comment on the media. If we didn't care enough about the NFL to watch news networks devote tens of hours of coverage, NOT to the fact that a well-known man TKO-ed his fiancee and then dragged her around on the floor, but the theater of what will become of Roger Goodell, the media wouldn't air it. And nobody is holding a gun to our heads, forcing us to watch it.

 

[sublimeone]

Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters?

The league has the ability to hand out punishment, in the form of activities within the league (not jail time). And when one man has declared himself the judge, jury, and executioner, of course that person's integrity and competence is fair game.

And shouldn't the punishment be based on precedent? The only thing ray rice did that was worse than other nfl players involved in domestic violence was get caught on video. Should the punishment be more severe because a video exists?

 

[timschochet]

This is really insane.

Yep.

Unprecedented.

Maybe this is our generations black sox incident... and by that I mean the moral perspective taking a far more prominent role, changing things moving forward as they have been in the past.

The guy that goes to the ends of the earth to unearth the cheating by the Pats and takes years of careers away for non-violent acts just misses this one? Who took a year from a coach and his team stating that "ignorance is not an excuse?"

Things gonna change 'round here. The game itself is too good, too popular, too powerful, too economically and culturally intertwined into our life, you know, like baseball had been the pastime for so long.

While this is hardly a parellel analogy, I do believe that sometimes there are chains of events so egregious in threatening the public trust in an institution (in this case sport), that not only will heads roll, but things are going to look just a little different on the other side.

The difference is that in 1919 baseball had nowhere near the popularity that football does now. Baseball's great popularity didn't begin until 1-2 years after the Black Sox scandal, when Babe Ruth was traded to the Yankees and proceeded to shatter all home run records.

 

[John Bender]

Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters?

The league has the ability to hand out punishment, in the form of activities within the league (not jail time). And when one man has declared himself the judge, jury, and executioner, of course that person's integrity and competence is fair game.

And shouldn't the punishment be based on precedent? The only thing ray rice did that was worse than other nfl players involved in domestic violence was get caught on video. Should the punishment be more severe because a video exists?

I have to say, I was on the fence about this until your last 2 posts. I have to agree.

People seem to LOVE to grab their pitchforks during these highly publicized incidents for whatever reasons. But going after Goodell as if he's the person who punched a woman in the elevator just seems ridiculous to me. There was little talk about Ray Rice today and what piece of crap he is, and lots of talk about Goodell and what a piece of crap he is. I don't know why the shift, but I'm good with Goodell and have zero reason to believe that everything he's said publicly is a lie at this point.

Goodell didn't throw the punch, if anything, he instituted a policy to severely strengthen the penalties for domestic violence cases in light of this incident. He additionally already apologized for handling the entire situation poorly. I'd rather find out why harsher criminal chargers were not brought to the table. The NFL side of things is secondary to this conspiracy

ETA: Greg Hardy is still playing, and the transcripts from what happened in his incident even dwarf the Ray Rice video supposedly. The difference being, those are transcripts of victim accounts, in the Ray Rice incident we have a video. This is the more shameful issue IMO

 

[NewlyRetired]

ESPN updated the story that the police sent the video to the NFL and they even gave a phone message confirming that it was received. Not sure what has changed.

=================

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11503851/ray-rice-videotape-sent-nfl-executive-april

ATLANTIC CITY, N.J. -- A law enforcement official says he sent a video of Ray Rice punching his then-fiancée to an NFL executive five months ago, while league executives have insisted they didn't see the violent images until this week.

The official played The Associated Press a 12-second voicemail from an NFL office number on April 9 confirming the video arrived. A female voice expresses thanks and says: "You're right. It's terrible."

Hours after the report Wednesday, Goodell announced former FBI director Robert S. Mueller III will conduct a probe into how the league pursued and handled evidence as it investigated claims against Rice.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said in a statement that the investigation will be overseen by owners John Mara of the New York Giants and Art Rooney of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Goodell said that Mueller will have access to all NFL records and will have full cooperation from league personnel.

The law enforcement official, speaking to the AP on condition of anonymity because of the ongoing investigation, says he had no further communication with any NFL employee and can't confirm anyone watched the video. He said he was unauthorized to release the video but shared it unsolicited because he wanted the NFL to have it before deciding on Rice's punishment.

The NFL has repeatedly said it asked for but could not obtain the video of Rice hitting Janay Palmer -- who is now his wife -- at an Atlantic City casino in February.

The league says it has no record of the video and that no one in the league office had seen it until it was released by TMZ on Monday. Asked about the voicemail Wednesday, NFL officials repeated their assertion that no league official had seen the video before Monday.

"We have no knowledge of this," NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said Wednesday. "We are not aware of anyone in our office who possessed or saw the video before it was made public on Monday. We will look into it."

Goodell, who was supposed to attend an award ceremony for Panthers owner Jerry Richardson in Charlotte Wednesday night, did not attend the event and instead changed his plans and headed back to New York.

The law enforcement official said he sent a DVD copy of the security camera video to an NFL office and included his contact information. He asked the AP not to release the name of the NFL executive, for fear that the information would identify him as the source.

Hours after portions of the video were made public by TMZ, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell suspended Rice indefinitely and Baltimore terminated his contract. Rice had originally been suspended for two games, and team officials had praised him for his apologies and actions after his arrest for aggravated assault.

Goodell and team officials said they were taking more severe action because of the violence in the video.

The NFL commissioner told CBS on Tuesday that "no one in the NFL, to my knowledge" had seen the video of what happened on the elevator until it was posted online.

"We assumed that there was a video. We asked for video. But we were never granted that opportunity," Goodell said.

In a memo to the NFL's 32 teams Wednesday, Goodell said the league asked law enforcement for the video but not the casino.

"In the context of a criminal investigation, information obtained outside of law enforcement that has not been tested by prosecutors or by the court system is not necessarily a reliable basis for imposing league discipline," he wrote.

The video, shown to the AP on Monday, is slightly longer than the TMZ version and includes some audio.

Rice and Palmer -- now Janay Rice -- can be heard shouting obscenities at each other, and she appears to spit at Rice right before he throws a brutal punch. "Outside The Lines" reported Wednesday that Rice spat at Palmer twice, including once in the elevator just before the punch. After she collapses, he drags her out of the elevator and is met by some hotel staff. One of them can be heard saying, "She's drunk, right?" and then, "No cops."

Rice had been charged with felony aggravated assault in the case, but in May he was accepted into a pretrial intervention program that allowed him to avoid jail time and could lead to the charge being purged from his record. A prominent New Jersey lawmaker called Tuesday for that decision to be reviewed.

Pressure mounted from outside the NFL Wednesday even before the law enforcement official's account was published. Twelve Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee sent Goodell a letter calling for greater transparency from the NFL, and Republican Sen. Dean Heller of Nevada said Goodell had not acted swiftly enough to punish Rice.

"By waiting to act until (the video) was made public you effectively condoned the action of the perpetrator himself,'' Heller wrote in a letter to Goodell. "I cannot and will not tolerate that position by anybody, let alone the National Football League.''

Information from The Associated Press was included in this report.

 

[timschochet]

Earlier I wrote that if it was proven that Goodell or the NFL lied, he was done.

But his call tonight for an independent investigation gives me pause. There may be more to this than meets the eye. A lot of it doesn't make sense. I think with regard to Goodell at this point I'm going to withhold judgment until we get some answers as to what actually happened.

 

[RUSF18]

Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters?

The league has the ability to hand out punishment, in the form of activities within the league (not jail time). And when one man has declared himself the judge, jury, and executioner, of course that person's integrity and competence is fair game.

And shouldn't the punishment be based on precedent? The only thing ray rice did that was worse than other nfl players involved in domestic violence was get caught on video. Should the punishment be more severe because a video exists?

I have to say, I was on the fence about this until your last 2 posts. I have to agree.People seem to LOVE to grab their pitchforks during these highly publicized incidents for whatever reasons. But going after Goodell as if he's the person who punched a woman in the elevator just seems ridiculous to me. There was little talk about Ray Rice today and what piece of crap he is, and lots of talk about Goodell and what a piece of crap he is. I don't know why the shift, but I'm good with Goodell and have zero reason to believe that everything he's said publicly is a lie at this point.

Goodell didn't throw the punch, if anything, he instituted a policy to severely strengthen the penalties for domestic violence cases in light of this incident. He additionally already apologized for handling the entire situation poorly. I'd rather find out why harsher criminal chargers were not brought to the table. The NFL side of things is secondary to this conspiracy

ETA: Greg Hardy is still playing, and the transcripts from what happened in his incident even dwarf the Ray Rice video supposedly. The difference being, those are transcripts of victim accounts, in the Ray Rice incident we have a video. This is the more shameful issue IMO

People spent every waking moment since the original suspension was announced being shocked it was such a slap on the wrist. If you've been around here or on Twitter, you saw the references to "Gordon gets a year for smoking weed while Rice gets 2 games for punching a woman" and "4 games for taking Molly, 2 games for punching Molly" etc. But some people explained it away saying that maybe the video wasn't that bad, or she hit him first. Seeing the video removes all doubt and made everyone question, again, what the hell the NFL was thinking with the original suspension.

 

[tdoss]

I'm sure you guys have covered this already but damn if I'm reading 20 pages...so hopefully someone can explain to me why does this video coming out now change anything for Ray Rice?

What I mean is...we all know Ray knocked her out...there was no debate on this. Two games were handed down (light penalty...but that's what was defined at the time that this happened)...but why does this video change anything? What happened in the video that we didn't already know...except maybe his fiance striking him first and confronting him aggressively?

And no...I'm not trying to get into "she got what she deserved" or "she's to blame". What I'm asking is how did this video show anything different than what we ALL already knew? He knocked her out...penalty handed down. Video comes out...oh crap...he knocked her out. Now ban him indefinitely...huh?

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Earlier I wrote that if it was proven that Goodell or the NFL lied, he was done.

But his call tonight for an independent investigation gives me pause. There may be more to this than meets the eye. A lot of it doesn't make sense. I think with regard to Goodell at this point I'm going to withhold

judgment until we get some answers as to what actually happened.

Doubtful

 

[Billy Bats]

Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters?

The league has the ability to hand out punishment, in the form of activities within the league (not jail time). And when one man has declared himself the judge, jury, and executioner, of course that person's integrity and competence is fair game.

And shouldn't the punishment be based on precedent? The only thing ray rice did that was worse than other nfl players involved in domestic violence was get caught on video. Should the punishment be more severe because a video exists?

I have to say, I was on the fence about this until your last 2 posts. I have to agree.People seem to LOVE to grab their pitchforks during these highly publicized incidents for whatever reasons. But going after Goodell as if he's the person who punched a woman in the elevator just seems ridiculous to me. There was little talk about Ray Rice today and what piece of crap he is, and lots of talk about Goodell and what a piece of crap he is. I don't know why the shift, but I'm good with Goodell and have zero reason to believe that everything he's said publicly is a lie at this point.

Goodell didn't throw the punch, if anything, he instituted a policy to severely strengthen the penalties for domestic violence cases in light of this incident. He additionally already apologized for handling the entire situation poorly. I'd rather find out why harsher criminal chargers were not brought to the table. The NFL side of things is secondary to this conspiracy

ETA: Greg Hardy is still playing, and the transcripts from what happened in his incident even dwarf the Ray Rice video supposedly. The difference being, those are transcripts of victim accounts, in the Ray Rice incident we have a video. This is the more shameful issue IMO

People spent every waking moment since the original suspension was announced being shocked it was such a slap on the wrist. If you've been around here or on Twitter, you saw the references to "Gordon gets a year for smoking weed while Rice gets 2 games for punching a woman" and "4 games for taking Molly, 2 games for punching Molly" etc. But some people explained it away saying that maybe the video wasn't that bad, or she hit him first. Seeing the video removes all doubt and made everyone question, again, what the hell the NFL was thinking with the original suspension.

It's also Goodell's mistake that he is judge, jury and executioner. He has no one to be the fall guy for such decisions, and his apparent mistakes on making these decisions. When you're quoted as saying things like "ignorance is no excuse" and "if you didn't know then you should have" in prior league judgements, well you put the bullseye directly on your chest when you fail to adhere to your own decrees.

Radio guy said it this morning, Gary Bettman is hated as much as Goodell by their own players, difference is Bettman has plenty of people and committees that review and hand out suspensions for league misconduct. If you decide to be that guy to judge then you better be ready for the fallout when you try and cover stuff up, or at least sweep it under the rug and lie to everyone.

 

[otello]

There will be more Marriotts today. I wonder what Komen is thinking....

 

[Tom Servo]

Ray Rice's lawyer-- "Ray beat the ##### because he's gay-- I dare you to suspend him Roger"

She looks hot to me.

 

[Tom Servo]

Earlier I wrote that if it was proven that Goodell or the NFL lied, he was done.

But his call tonight for an independent investigation gives me pause. There may be more to this than meets the eye. A lot of it doesn't make sense. I think with regard to Goodell at this point I'm going to withhold judgment until we get some answers as to what actually happened.

Which is what the NFL wants.

The establishment of an "independent" (cough cough) investigator will buy the Shield time, which makes things die down as it progresses. The investigation will take time; if precedence is any indication (see Richie Incognito), the "findings" will come out after the Super Bowl. This buys the league another 3 months until the draft.

 

[Tom Servo]

People spent every waking moment since the original suspension was announced being shocked it was such a slap on the wrist. If you've been around here or on Twitter, you saw the references to "Gordon gets a year for smoking weed while Rice gets 2 games for punching a woman" and "4 games for taking Molly, 2 games for punching Molly" etc. But some people explained it away saying that maybe the video wasn't that bad, or she hit him first. Seeing the video removes all doubt and made everyone question, again, what the hell the NFL was thinking with the original suspension.

All of which makes you wonder why Goodell went to such (little) lengths. He wasted no energy dropping the proverbial "Ginger Hammer" on many players; why so light on Ray Rice? Curious, to say the least.

 

[pollardsvision]

Am I alone in thinking the media is blowing this way out of proportion?

Why is everyone clamoring for Goodells job? Did Goodell hit Ray Rice's wife in the face? Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters? This whole thing is bizarre. It's quickly becoming a witch hunt. It seems like a lot of people have an axe to grind with Goodell and this is their moment to take him down.

If the media should be in a frenzy over anything it should be with the judicial system letting Rice off with a slap on the wrist.

I think so, except for the "why in the hell did Goodell lie?" part.

Outside of that lie, this is mostly just an embarrassing story for the NFL. They were light on the original punishment. It was unseemly, to say the least, but they acted quickly to change the policy, so it'd be easier to enact more severe punishments in the future.

Bad as it looked at times, it was fairly defensible and not a huge deal in the long term.

But it's the lying part that makes this a whole other thing. Frankly, it's too confusing to really make much of that yet either, but it's a different level of blunder (barring a great explanation).

 

[fatness]

I'm sure this independent investigator will do a thorough job and get to the bottom of everything, just like the NFL's last independent investigator.

Mary Jo White

After four months, the following facts have now been established. The Commissioner, NFL personnel and their outside counsel:

........................................

Retained a former U.S. Attorney to whitewash the investigation by employing her to conduct a media conference call affirming an investigation she was not part of.

Employed the same former U.S. Attorney to today’s hearing to read the report of an investigation she did not conduct, but prohibited her from answering any questions from the players.

 

[parasaurolophus]

People spent every waking moment since the original suspension was announced being shocked it was such a slap on the wrist. If you've been around here or on Twitter, you saw the references to "Gordon gets a year for smoking weed while Rice gets 2 games for punching a woman" and "4 games for taking Molly, 2 games for punching Molly" etc. But some people explained it away saying that maybe the video wasn't that bad, or she hit him first. Seeing the video removes all doubt and made everyone question, again, what the hell the NFL was thinking with the original suspension.

All of which makes you wonder why Goodell went to such (little) lengths. He wasted no energy dropping the proverbial "Ginger Hammer" on many players; why so light on Ray Rice? Curious, to say the least.

When guys get suspended for a year isnt it their 3rd offense? Hasnt the NFL proposed changing the 2nd offense to two games instead of 4?

 

[Tom Servo]

People spent every waking moment since the original suspension was announced being shocked it was such a slap on the wrist. If you've been around here or on Twitter, you saw the references to "Gordon gets a year for smoking weed while Rice gets 2 games for punching a woman" and "4 games for taking Molly, 2 games for punching Molly" etc. But some people explained it away saying that maybe the video wasn't that bad, or she hit him first. Seeing the video removes all doubt and made everyone question, again, what the hell the NFL was thinking with the original suspension.

All of which makes you wonder why Goodell went to such (little) lengths. He wasted no energy dropping the proverbial "Ginger Hammer" on many players; why so light on Ray Rice? Curious, to say the least.

When guys get suspended for a year isnt it their 3rd offense? Hasnt the NFL proposed changing the 2nd offense to two games instead of 4?

I was speaking of punishments in general.

 

[Tom Servo]

James Harrison ✔ @jharrison9292 Follow

@nflcommish ain't no fun when the rabbit got the gun huh?

6:36 PM - 10 Sep 2014

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

s...so hopefully someone can explain to me why does this video coming out now change anything for Ray Rice?

For the Ravens I think [the video] explains it pretty well. (And no one said it excuses it.)

 

[TobiasFunke]

This is really insane.

Yep.

Unprecedented.

Maybe this is our generations black sox incident... and by that I mean the moral perspective taking a far more prominent role, changing things moving forward as they have been in the past.

The guy that goes to the ends of the earth to unearth the cheating by the Pats and takes years of careers away for non-violent acts just misses this one? Who took a year from a coach and his team stating that "ignorance is not an excuse?"

Things gonna change 'round here. The game itself is too good, too popular, too powerful, too economically and culturally intertwined into our life, you know, like baseball had been the pastime for so long.

While this is hardly a parellel analogy, I do believe that sometimes there are chains of events so egregious in threatening the public trust in an institution (in this case sport), that not only will heads roll, but things are going to look just a little different on the other side.

Your earth must be a lot smaller than the real one.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Am I alone in thinking the media is blowing this way out of proportion?

Why is everyone clamoring for Goodells job? Did Goodell hit Ray Rice's wife in the face? Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters? This whole thing is bizarre. It's quickly becoming a witch hunt. It seems like a lot of people have an axe to grind with Goodell and this is their moment to take him down.

If the media should be in a frenzy over anything it should be with the judicial system letting Rice off with a slap on the wrist.

I've seen this position stated by a bunch of people. It sounds good but it's not at all fair or practical or even desirable.

The obvious difference between the judicial system and the NFL is that the judicial system has to deal with time and cost constraints. Sure, we all wish every person charged with a violent crime was investigated by a team of officers and not allowed to plea and tried on every possible charge and thrown in jail for a long time. But to do that would take a massive expansion of our police forces and prosecutors' offices and courts and prison systems. It would be a huge commitment of resources (i.e. your income). So instead of massive tax hikes and overcrowded courts and prisons, we give cops and prosecutors the discretion to weed out the first-time offenders and difficult cases and whatnot.

The NFL faces none of those cost/benefit issues. Its only constraint is the CBA.

 

[The Commish]

I'm sure you guys have covered this already but damn if I'm reading 20 pages...so hopefully someone can explain to me why does this video coming out now change anything for Ray Rice?

What I mean is...we all know Ray knocked her out...there was no debate on this. Two games were handed down (light penalty...but that's what was defined at the time that this happened)...but why does this video change anything? What happened in the video that we didn't already know...except maybe his fiance striking him first and confronting him aggressively?

And no...I'm not trying to get into "she got what she deserved" or "she's to blame". What I'm asking is how did this video show anything different than what we ALL already knew? He knocked her out...penalty handed down. Video comes out...oh crap...he knocked her out. Now ban him indefinitely...huh?

I don't get the focus on whether Goodell / NFL actually SAW the tape or not. They were told what happened or they would have been "shocked" by what they saw on the tape. They knew everything they know now and decided two games was appropriate.

 

[Billy Bats]

Well it's only fitting that Rhianna is singing the opening song for TNF. You can't make this #### up.

Are you serious?

Yup.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/jay-z-rihanna-to-star-in-thursday-night-football-intro-090314

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm sure you guys have covered this already but damn if I'm reading 20 pages...so hopefully someone can explain to me why does this video coming out now change anything for Ray Rice?

What I mean is...we all know Ray knocked her out...there was no debate on this. Two games were handed down (light penalty...but that's what was defined at the time that this happened)...but why does this video change anything? What happened in the video that we didn't already know...except maybe his fiance striking him first and confronting him aggressively?

And no...I'm not trying to get into "she got what she deserved" or "she's to blame". What I'm asking is how did this video show anything different than what we ALL already knew? He knocked her out...penalty handed down. Video comes out...oh crap...he knocked her out. Now ban him indefinitely...huh?

I don't get the focus on whether Goodell / NFL actually SAW the tape or not. They were told what happened or they would have been "shocked" by what they saw on the tape. They knew everything they know now and decided two games was appropriate.

Well obviously the focus is because they lied about it. It's not the crime that brings you down, it's the cover-up.

But you guys are wrong that seeing the tape doesn't change what people know about what happened. If you read back through this thread to before the tape was released you'll see posts from several people saying that we don't really know what happened because we didn't see it and discussing all kinds of possibilities about how she might have provoked him, or attacked him and forced him to defend himself, or whatever. Now we know that's not true. He spit on her twice and shoved her and then when she came towards him he smacked the hell out of her. Oh, and he also seemed to show zero remorse or shock at what he'd done. Of course that changes things. There's no more possibility of mitigating factors.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

I'm sure you guys have covered this already but damn if I'm reading 20 pages...so hopefully someone can explain to me why does this video coming out now change anything for Ray Rice?

What I mean is...we all know Ray knocked her out...there was no debate on this. Two games were handed down (light penalty...but that's what was defined at the time that this happened)...but why does this video change anything? What happened in the video that we didn't already know...except maybe his fiance striking him first and confronting him aggressively?

And no...I'm not trying to get into "she got what she deserved" or "she's to blame". What I'm asking is how did this video show anything different than what we ALL already knew? He knocked her out...penalty handed down. Video comes out...oh crap...he knocked her out. Now ban him indefinitely...huh?

I don't get the focus on whether Goodell / NFL actually SAW the tape or not. They were told what happened or they would have been "shocked" by what they saw on the tape. They knew everything they know now and decided two games was appropriate.

Well obviously the focus is because they lied about it. It's not the crime that brings you down, it's the cover-up.

But you guys are wrong that seeing the tape doesn't change what people know about what happened. If you read back through this thread to before the tape was released you'll see posts from several people saying that we don't really know what happened because we didn't see it and discussing all kinds of possibilities about how she might have provoked him, or attacked him and forced him to defend himself, or whatever. Now we know that's not true. He spit on her twice and shoved her and then when she came towards him he smacked the hell out of her. Oh, and he also seemed to show zero remorse or shock at what he'd done. Of course that changes things. There's no more possibility of mitigating factors.

And we all had the option whether we took it or not of having the opinion that "those that saw the video seem to think what really happened wasn't too bad" based on the seemingly trivial intervention program and short suspension. That option went away.

 

[fatness]

Roger Goodell made a very bad assumption when he chose not to contact the casino to request a copy of the Ray Rice elevator video -- because law enforcement tells TMZ Sports ... that would have been perfectly legal.

Goodell said Tuesday he did not contact the Revel Casino because it was his understanding "the casino is prohibited from turning over material to a third party during a law enforcement proceeding" -- namely the criminal case against Rice.

But Paul Loriquet, the Director of Communications for the New Jersey Attorney General, tells TMZ bluntly, "No, it's not illegal."

To be clear ... our question was very specific: "Is it illegal for the casino to show or provide this material to a private entity in an ongoing investigation." His answer, "No, it's not illegal."

http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/10/roger-goodell-video-casino-ray-rice/

 

[Peyton Marino]

Paul George droppin' some knowledge on twitter this morning...

I don't condone hittin women or think it's coo BUT if SHE ain't trippin then I ain't trippin.. Lets keep it movin lol let that man play!—
Paul George (@Yg_Trece) September 11, 2014

If you in a relationship and a woman hit you first and attacking YOU.. Then you obviously ain't beatin HER. Homie made A bad choice!#StayUp—
Paul George (@Yg_Trece) September 11, 2014

obviously the tweets have been deleted now.

 

[Todd Andrews]

The independent investigation is a sham joke. It reports to Goodell's two butt buddies Mara and Rooney, who Goodell has helped in the past (If you think the penalties against the Redskins and Cowboyss werent done for Mara, the head of the competition committee, you are incredibly naive. And Rooney's qb was saved by Goodell with a six game suspension after multiple rape accusations, the details of which were bad).

 

[timschochet]

It seems to me that, ever since Twitter was invented, 99% of all tweets, particularly celebrity ones, have been embarrassing or stupid or both.

 

[Peyton Marino]

It seems to me that, ever since Twitter was invented, 99% of all tweets, particularly celebrity ones, have been embarrassing or stupid or both.

yes, twitter is pretty awesome.

 

[timschochet]

The independent investigation is a sham joke. It reports to Goodell's two butt buddies Mara and Rooney, who Goodell has helped in the past (If you think the penalties against the Redskins and Cowboyss werent done for Mara, the head of the competition committee, you are incredibly naive. And Rooney's qb was saved by Goodell with a six game suspension after multiple rape accusations, the details of which were bad).

i guess I'm incredibly naive then, because I am doubtful you're correct about either instance .

 

[TobiasFunke]

It seems to me that, ever since Twitter was invented, 99% of all tweets, particularly celebrity ones, have been embarrassing or stupid or both.

I'd say it's well under 1%.

In other words,

 

[Doug B]

I don't get the focus on whether Goodell / NFL actually SAW the tape or not. They were told what happened or they would have been "shocked" by what they saw on the tape. They knew everything they know now and decided two games was appropriate.

Exactly. Tone-deafness and cynicism, specifically, are what's being held against Goodell right now. The prevailing opinions are that Goodell has been untruthful to cover up that tone-deafness and cynicism.

 

[Billy Bats]

Paul George droppin' some knowledge on twitter this morning...

If you in a relationship and a woman hit you first and attacking YOU.. Then you obviously ain't beatin HER. Homie made A bad choice!

obviously the tweets have been deleted now.

He be tripping. She went at him because he spit on her, twice. I'm not surprised he's an uninformed homie.

 

[Doug B]

It seems to me that, ever since Twitter was invented, 99% of all tweets, particularly celebrity ones, have been embarrassing or stupid or both.

Tangent to the thread, but: I can't believe celebrities touch Twitter with a ten-foot poll. And that even if they do, they do it with so little care.

I' also amazed everytime someone posts something inflammatory, and then deletes it from their Twitter account as if that makes it disappear. Five years into Twitter's existence, doesn't every user know that even one retweet = immortality for the tweet?

 

[TheIronSheik]

Am I alone in thinking the media is blowing this way out of proportion?

Why is everyone clamoring for Goodells job? Did Goodell hit Ray Rice's wife in the face? Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters? This whole thing is bizarre. It's quickly becoming a witch hunt. It seems like a lot of people have an axe to grind with Goodell and this is their moment to take him down.

If the media should be in a frenzy over anything it should be with the judicial system letting Rice off with a slap on the wrist.

Agreed. We all knew that Ray Rice punched his fiancee and knocked her out. I'm not sure how this is being called a cover up. Why did it take a video for people to be upset? All of the NFL players tweeting about how ashamed they are of Goddell, yet Ray McDonald played on Sunday after being charged with felony domestic violence. So outrage against the guy for not punishing the person who punched a girl. But no outrage against the guys who punch the girl. Great message here to the women of our country.

 

[The Commish]

I'm sure you guys have covered this already but damn if I'm reading 20 pages...so hopefully someone can explain to me why does this video coming out now change anything for Ray Rice?

What I mean is...we all know Ray knocked her out...there was no debate on this. Two games were handed down (light penalty...but that's what was defined at the time that this happened)...but why does this video change anything? What happened in the video that we didn't already know...except maybe his fiance striking him first and confronting him aggressively?

And no...I'm not trying to get into "she got what she deserved" or "she's to blame". What I'm asking is how did this video show anything different than what we ALL already knew? He knocked her out...penalty handed down. Video comes out...oh crap...he knocked her out. Now ban him indefinitely...huh?

I don't get the focus on whether Goodell / NFL actually SAW the tape or not. They were told what happened or they would have been "shocked" by what they saw on the tape. They knew everything they know now and decided two games was appropriate.

Well obviously the focus is because they lied about it. It's not the crime that brings you down, it's the cover-up.

But you guys are wrong that seeing the tape doesn't change what people know about what happened. If you read back through this thread to before the tape was released you'll see posts from several people saying that we don't really know what happened because we didn't see it and discussing all kinds of possibilities about how she might have provoked him, or attacked him and forced him to defend himself, or whatever. Now we know that's not true. He spit on her twice and shoved her and then when she came towards him he smacked the hell out of her. Oh, and he also seemed to show zero remorse or shock at what he'd done. Of course that changes things. There's no more possibility of mitigating factors.

Sorry, I phrased it wrong. For those "in the know" (i.e. not us on message boards speculating) the tape doesn't offer anything they weren't already told (if we are to believe what has been presented to us thus far). However, there seems to be this hurdle of "did they see the video or not" that I don't get. What does it matter if they were TOLD all that information by Rice. Yes, there is a detail or two with the spitting, hitting with closed fist or open hand etc. We already knew that his actions knocked her out and he dragged her off the elevator with little/no remorse being shown. That's plenty to go after Goodell and the NFL by itself. All this other stuff is just bringing more gas to an out of control bonfire.

 

[timschochet]

I don't understand why so any people are asking "why did it take the video?" Or arguing that the video hasn't changed anything.

The video released Monday has changed EVERYTHING. Apparently some of you don't remember that Rice's actions inside that elevator were very much in question and hotly debated here and elsewhere. He had many defenders who argued that we don't know what happened and tried to justify Rice's actions . All of that is gone now .

 

[TobiasFunke]

It seems to me that, ever since Twitter was invented, 99% of all tweets, particularly celebrity ones, have been embarrassing or stupid or both.

Tangent to the thread, but: I can't believe celebrities touch Twitter with a ten-foot poll. And that even if they do, they do it with so little care.

I' also amazed everytime someone posts something inflammatory, and then deletes it from their Twitter account as if that makes it disappear. Five years into Twitter's existence, doesn't every user know that even one retweet = immortality for the tweet?

Tweeting benefits a lot of celebrities who are intelligent and engaging. It raises their profile and enhances their public image. I can think of tons of athletes and entertainment types who probably have enhanced their careers or their profile or even given themselves new career options by being good tweeters.

The problem, of course, is that everyone thinks they're intelligent and engaging. Every athlete thinks he's as clever as Brandon McCarthy, every actress thinks she's as clever as Anna Kendrick.

 

[TheIronSheik]

I don't understand why so any people are asking "why did it take the video?" Or arguing that the video hasn't changed anything.

The video released Monday has changed EVERYTHING. Apparently some of you don't remember that Rice's actions inside that elevator were very much in question and hotly debated here and elsewhere. He had many defenders who argued that we don't know what happened and tried to justify Rice's actions . All of that is gone now .

He said he punched her. And we saw her knocked out. It doesn't matter what people were arguing. Those were the unargued facts.

 

[Tom Servo]

Am I alone in thinking the media is blowing this way out of proportion?

Why is everyone clamoring for Goodells job? Did Goodell hit Ray Rice's wife in the face? Since when did it become the employers job to carry out punishment in legal matters? This whole thing is bizarre. It's quickly becoming a witch hunt. It seems like a lot of people have an axe to grind with Goodell and this is their moment to take him down.

If the media should be in a frenzy over anything it should be with the judicial system letting Rice off with a slap on the wrist.

I've seen this position stated by a bunch of people. It sounds good but it's not at all fair or practical or even desirable.

The obvious difference between the judicial system and the NFL is that the judicial system has to deal with time and cost constraints. Sure, we all wish every person charged with a violent crime was investigated by a team of officers and not allowed to plea and tried on every possible charge and thrown in jail for a long time. But to do that would take a massive expansion of our police forces and prosecutors' offices and courts and prison systems. It would be a huge commitment of resources (i.e. your income). So instead of massive tax hikes and overcrowded courts and prisons, we give cops and prosecutors the discretion to weed out the first-time offenders and difficult cases and whatnot.

The NFL faces none of those cost/benefit issues. Its only constraint is the CBA.

A few years ago, I had to bond my wife's friend out of jail for DV (in this case, she was the aggressor). This was her first offense, and she was a mother to their 3 children, attended the same church as us, etc. Because of that, she was shown leniency by the court. Today, her and her husband live in Vegas, have had two more children and their lives and marriage are working well.

Sometimes we make mistakes that involve getting arrested. It happens. Given what I understand of Rice's record (or lack thereof), I can see a prosecutor steering him into an anger management program. I think we'd all want that same leniency when/if we do something stupid like that.

ETA: I'm not in any way excusing what Rice did; to give him that program for slugging her doesn't work for anyone. My friend slapped her husband and threw something at him.

 

[The Commish]

I don't understand why so any people are asking "why did it take the video?" Or arguing that the video hasn't changed anything.

The video released Monday has changed EVERYTHING. Apparently some of you don't remember that Rice's actions inside that elevator were very much in question and hotly debated here and elsewhere. He had many defenders who argued that we don't know what happened and tried to justify Rice's actions . All of that is gone now .

It may have changed everything for you, but not for the people that mattered. If we are to believe what people "in the know" are saying Rice's account of the story to them was pretty much in line with what the video showed. It's not that hard to understand. His actions were in question by us, so? I guess there is a small point to be made about his "defenders". That rock has certainly been removed as an option for them to hide behind. Aside from that, it changes very little about what the NFL, prosecutors, DAs, Rice etc knew about the events.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't understand why so any people are asking "why did it take the video?" Or arguing that the video hasn't changed anything.

The video released Monday has changed EVERYTHING. Apparently some of you don't remember that Rice's actions inside that elevator were very much in question and hotly debated here and elsewhere. He had many defenders who argued that we don't know what happened and tried to justify Rice's actions . All of that is gone now .

It may have changed everything for you, but not for the people that mattered. If we are to believe what people "in the know" are saying Rice's account of the story to them was pretty much in line with what the video showed. It's not that hard to understand. His actions were in question by us, so? I guess there is a small point to be made about his "defenders". That rock has certainly been removed as an option for them to hide behind. Aside from that, it changes very little about what the NFL, prosecutors, DAs, Rice etc knew about the events.

As far as the NFL is concerned, the "people that matter" are the fans. They don't give a #### about justice and morality. They care about selling the product. If the video changes the public's feelings about Rice did then it's gonna change the NFL's approach to Rice as well.

 

[timschochet]

I don't understand why so any people are asking "why did it take the video?" Or arguing that the video hasn't changed anything.

The video released Monday has changed EVERYTHING. Apparently some of you don't remember that Rice's actions inside that elevator were very much in question and hotly debated here and elsewhere. He had many defenders who argued that we don't know what happened and tried to justify Rice's actions . All of that is gone now .

It may have changed everything for you, but not for the people that mattered. If we are to believe what people "in the know" are saying Rice's account of the story to them was pretty much in line with what the video showed. It's not that hard to understand. His actions were in question by us, so? I guess there is a small point to be made about his "defenders". That rock has certainly been removed as an option for them to hide behind. Aside from that, it changes very little about what the NFL, prosecutors, DAs, Rice etc knew about the events.

So when Goodell said Monday that the video changed his mind about the incident, that was an out and out lie? Because while you may have reached that conclusion, I haven't yet.