RB Carlos Hyde, JAC (2 Viewers)

[FUBAR]

2. His college production YPC is great but there are other factors at play here. For example, Ohio's O-line was one of the best in the country (the best per this study) and by watching the tape it looks to me like he was too. He has power with a full head of steam but he's not going to be afforded that luxury as much in the NFL.

You have to give him some credit, because he out-performed everybody else on his team who also ran behind great blocking. But he won't get that kind of push in San Francisco; nor will he receive the benefit of the read option nearly so often. So his performance in college, or at least his stats, need kept in perspective. The skills it takes to run a zone read offense behind a beefed up line against Indiana differs greatly from what he'll need to succeed in the NFL.

He did pretty well against two top 5 rush Defenses and a few other top 30 Ds.

 

[humpback]

I'm not really seeing how it's a straw man to refute your flawed premise, but that being said, I don't think he's "too slow" to be a solid NFL RB by any stretch.

You guys spent a lot of time refuting one "flawed" premise. Call it beating a dead horse rather than a straw-man.

It's called a discussion, which happens fairly often on a message board. You're right though, it would have been quicker if everyone just went along with your opinion and against that of one of the best organizations in the NFL.

 

[biju]

2. His college production YPC is great but there are other factors at play here. For example, Ohio's O-line was one of the best in the country (the best per this study) and by watching the tape it looks to me like he was too. He has power with a full head of steam but he's not going to be afforded that luxury as much in the NFL.

You have to give him some credit, because he out-performed everybody else on his team who also ran behind great blocking. But he won't get that kind of push in San Francisco; nor will he receive the benefit of the read option nearly so often. So his performance in college, or at least his stats, need kept in perspective. The skills it takes to run a zone read offense behind a beefed up line against Indiana differs greatly from what he'll need to succeed in the NFL.

Correct. I don't mean to entirely discredit his effort--there are a great many backs that wouldn't come close to his YPC. But I think using YPC (especially if you're comparing across rookie RBs) should be tempered as a measurement of potential success, especially when you're afforded such a great O-line.

 

[cloppbeast]

He did pretty well against two top 5 rush Defenses and a few other top 30 Ds.

So, I used a little rhetoric.

I bet you have fun with Obama's speeches as well.

 

[biju]

For all of those that are concerned that Hyde is slow on tape and point out his combine doesn't dispute those observations....I have a question for you.

Full disclosure....If I have to RB's I like equally I choose the guy that runs a 4.4 over the 4.6. If I have one RB I like over another, but he runs a 4.6 and the one I like less runs a 4.4. I watch a little more to see if I can see it on tape, to see if I should change my mind....more times than not I will not change my mind. Additionally if I have 2 rbs I like the same and they have very similar combine numbers, I tend to break the tie based on how productive the players were (I certainly consider the competition faced as well, not just blind stats)

It seems several here are basing their view on Hyde looking slow and timing slow and therefore believe he wont be good in the NFL.

My questions to you are:

What do you think Frank Gore's 40 and 10 yard split would have been at the start of last year?

Do you think Gore (last year) looked quicker and faster than Hyde?

I'll play...

40 time: probably ~mid 4.7. Gore was never "fast" compared to other RBs.

10 yard split: 1.6s. I think Gore still has acceleration above Hyde even at his current age

And I think Gore 2013 is about as quick as Hyde coming out of school. Plus Gore has excellent vision and is proven at the NFL level. Essentially, Gore has been shifty, with great vision and instincts throughout his career. Kind of the opposite from what I see in Hyde.

 

[cstu]

For all of those that are concerned that Hyde is slow on tape and point out his combine doesn't dispute those observations....I have a question for you.

Full disclosure....If I have to RB's I like equally I choose the guy that runs a 4.4 over the 4.6. If I have one RB I like over another, but he runs a 4.6 and the one I like less runs a 4.4. I watch a little more to see if I can see it on tape, to see if I should change my mind....more times than not I will not change my mind. Additionally if I have 2 rbs I like the same and they have very similar combine numbers, I tend to break the tie based on how productive the players were (I certainly consider the competition faced as well, not just blind stats)

It seems several here are basing their view on Hyde looking slow and timing slow and therefore believe he wont be good in the NFL.

My questions to you are:

What do you think Frank Gore's 40 and 10 yard split would have been at the start of last year?

Do you think Gore (last year) looked quicker and faster than Hyde?

I'll play...

40 time: probably ~mid 4.7. Gore was never "fast" compared to other RBs.

10 yard split: 1.6s. I think Gore still has acceleration above Hyde even at his current age

And I think Gore 2013 is about as quick as Hyde coming out of school. Plus Gore has excellent vision and is proven at the NFL level. Essentially, Gore has been shifty, with great vision and instincts throughout his career. Kind of the opposite from what I see in Hyde.

He 'was' fast but by the time he got to the NFL

I'd expect Gore to have a faster 10 yard split since he's 15 lbs. lighter.

Riddle me this...

How does a big slow, non-explosive, non-shifty, poor vision and instincts RB average 7.3 YPC on 208 carries?

 

[biju]

For all of those that are concerned that Hyde is slow on tape and point out his combine doesn't dispute those observations....I have a question for you.

Full disclosure....If I have to RB's I like equally I choose the guy that runs a 4.4 over the 4.6. If I have one RB I like over another, but he runs a 4.6 and the one I like less runs a 4.4. I watch a little more to see if I can see it on tape, to see if I should change my mind....more times than not I will not change my mind. Additionally if I have 2 rbs I like the same and they have very similar combine numbers, I tend to break the tie based on how productive the players were (I certainly consider the competition faced as well, not just blind stats)

It seems several here are basing their view on Hyde looking slow and timing slow and therefore believe he wont be good in the NFL.

My questions to you are:

What do you think Frank Gore's 40 and 10 yard split would have been at the start of last year?

Do you think Gore (last year) looked quicker and faster than Hyde?

I'll play...

40 time: probably ~mid 4.7. Gore was never "fast" compared to other RBs.

10 yard split: 1.6s. I think Gore still has acceleration above Hyde even at his current age

And I think Gore 2013 is about as quick as Hyde coming out of school. Plus Gore has excellent vision and is proven at the NFL level. Essentially, Gore has been shifty, with great vision and instincts throughout his career. Kind of the opposite from what I see in Hyde.

He 'was' fast but by the time he got to the NFL

I'd expect Gore to have a faster 10 yard split since he's 15 lbs. lighter.

Riddle me this...

How does a big slow, non-explosive, non-shifty, poor vision and instincts RB average 7.3 YPC on 208 carries?

That O-line was giving him 3 yards on nearly every run. Add into this the level of competition on some of his better games and I'd say you have your answer. Again, it isn't like the guy isn't talented, but let's say Sankey and Hyde (and I'm not suggesting Sankey is better or taking a "Brewtown" angle here) switched places; do you expect their YPC to remain the same?

I don't.

 

[cstu]

For all of those that are concerned that Hyde is slow on tape and point out his combine doesn't dispute those observations....I have a question for you.

Full disclosure....If I have to RB's I like equally I choose the guy that runs a 4.4 over the 4.6. If I have one RB I like over another, but he runs a 4.6 and the one I like less runs a 4.4. I watch a little more to see if I can see it on tape, to see if I should change my mind....more times than not I will not change my mind. Additionally if I have 2 rbs I like the same and they have very similar combine numbers, I tend to break the tie based on how productive the players were (I certainly consider the competition faced as well, not just blind stats)

It seems several here are basing their view on Hyde looking slow and timing slow and therefore believe he wont be good in the NFL.

My questions to you are:

What do you think Frank Gore's 40 and 10 yard split would have been at the start of last year?

Do you think Gore (last year) looked quicker and faster than Hyde?

I'll play...

40 time: probably ~mid 4.7. Gore was never "fast" compared to other RBs.

10 yard split: 1.6s. I think Gore still has acceleration above Hyde even at his current age

And I think Gore 2013 is about as quick as Hyde coming out of school. Plus Gore has excellent vision and is proven at the NFL level. Essentially, Gore has been shifty, with great vision and instincts throughout his career. Kind of the opposite from what I see in Hyde.

He 'was' fast but by the time he got to the NFL

I'd expect Gore to have a faster 10 yard split since he's 15 lbs. lighter.

Riddle me this...

How does a big slow, non-explosive, non-shifty, poor vision and instincts RB average 7.3 YPC on 208 carries?

That O-line was giving him 3 yards on nearly every run. Add into this the level of competition on some of his better games and I'd say you have your answer. Again, it isn't like the guy isn't talented, but let's say Sankey and Hyde (and I'm not suggesting Sankey is better or taking a "Brewtown" angle here) switched places; do you expect their YPC to remain the same?

I don't.

Last year he played four ranked teams and ran for 113+ yards in all of them except Wisconsin, which he averaged 5.0 YPC in.

His 246 and 226 yard games came against Illinois (giving up 3.3 YPC) and Michigan (giving up 3.8 YPC).

 

[starks]

I wasn't really going to buy into this guy (dynasty) but with him going to SFO and teaming up with Kap for the next 4 or 5 years after the signing I like the situation. If he was in a pro style offense I would be worried about him, but he will be running a somewhat similar offense and have a more dynamic quarterback than what he had last year. And the SFO line is better than OSU's in comparison not to mention they love to run it and make the other team like it. If you can afford to wait a year this guy could easily pay off big time.

 

[cstu]

2. His college production YPC is great but there are other factors at play here. For example, Ohio's O-line was one of the best in the country (the best per this study) and by watching the tape it looks to me like he was too. He has power with a full head of steam but he's not going to be afforded that luxury as much in the NFL.

You have to give him some credit, because he out-performed everybody else on his team who also ran behind great blocking. But he won't get that kind of push in San Francisco; nor will he receive the benefit of the read option nearly so often. So his performance in college, or at least his stats, need kept in perspective. The skills it takes to run a zone read offense behind a beefed up line against Indiana differs greatly from what he'll need to succeed in the NFL.

Not as often, but he still has a QB who runs a lot. If Kaep improves his passing it will be difficult for teams to stack the box against him.

 

[biju]

For all of those that are concerned that Hyde is slow on tape and point out his combine doesn't dispute those observations....I have a question for you.

Full disclosure....If I have to RB's I like equally I choose the guy that runs a 4.4 over the 4.6. If I have one RB I like over another, but he runs a 4.6 and the one I like less runs a 4.4. I watch a little more to see if I can see it on tape, to see if I should change my mind....more times than not I will not change my mind. Additionally if I have 2 rbs I like the same and they have very similar combine numbers, I tend to break the tie based on how productive the players were (I certainly consider the competition faced as well, not just blind stats)

It seems several here are basing their view on Hyde looking slow and timing slow and therefore believe he wont be good in the NFL.

My questions to you are:

What do you think Frank Gore's 40 and 10 yard split would have been at the start of last year?

Do you think Gore (last year) looked quicker and faster than Hyde?

I'll play...

40 time: probably ~mid 4.7. Gore was never "fast" compared to other RBs.

10 yard split: 1.6s. I think Gore still has acceleration above Hyde even at his current age

And I think Gore 2013 is about as quick as Hyde coming out of school. Plus Gore has excellent vision and is proven at the NFL level. Essentially, Gore has been shifty, with great vision and instincts throughout his career. Kind of the opposite from what I see in Hyde.

He 'was' fast but by the time he got to the NFL

I'd expect Gore to have a faster 10 yard split since he's 15 lbs. lighter.

Riddle me this...

How does a big slow, non-explosive, non-shifty, poor vision and instincts RB average 7.3 YPC on 208 carries?

That O-line was giving him 3 yards on nearly every run. Add into this the level of competition on some of his better games and I'd say you have your answer. Again, it isn't like the guy isn't talented, but let's say Sankey and Hyde (and I'm not suggesting Sankey is better or taking a "Brewtown" angle here) switched places; do you expect their YPC to remain the same?

I don't.

Last year he played four ranked teams and ran for 113+ yards in all of them except Wisconsin, which he averaged 5.0 YPC in.

His 246 and 226 yard games came against Illinois (giving up 3.3 YPC) and Michigan (giving up 3.8 YPC).

Pro level RBs don't get *drafted* unless they post a 5.0 YPC at a minimum. And again, not to tout Sankey, but the guy also ran it up against Illinois--and with a much worse O-line. The yardage is great, but I'm still not sure this is talent or a strong O-line. Maybe I'll re-read Waldman's take on it through his notes in the RSP...

 

[Xue]

For all of those that are concerned that Hyde is slow on tape and point out his combine doesn't dispute those observations....I have a question for you.

Full disclosure....If I have to RB's I like equally I choose the guy that runs a 4.4 over the 4.6. If I have one RB I like over another, but he runs a 4.6 and the one I like less runs a 4.4. I watch a little more to see if I can see it on tape, to see if I should change my mind....more times than not I will not change my mind. Additionally if I have 2 rbs I like the same and they have very similar combine numbers, I tend to break the tie based on how productive the players were (I certainly consider the competition faced as well, not just blind stats)

It seems several here are basing their view on Hyde looking slow and timing slow and therefore believe he wont be good in the NFL.

My questions to you are:

What do you think Frank Gore's 40 and 10 yard split would have been at the start of last year?

Do you think Gore (last year) looked quicker and faster than Hyde?

I'll play...

40 time: probably ~mid 4.7. Gore was never "fast" compared to other RBs.

10 yard split: 1.6s. I think Gore still has acceleration above Hyde even at his current age

And I think Gore 2013 is about as quick as Hyde coming out of school. Plus Gore has excellent vision and is proven at the NFL level. Essentially, Gore has been shifty, with great vision and instincts throughout his career. Kind of the opposite from what I see in Hyde.

He 'was' fast but by the time he got to the NFL

I'd expect Gore to have a faster 10 yard split since he's 15 lbs. lighter.

Riddle me this...

How does a big slow, non-explosive, non-shifty, poor vision and instincts RB average 7.3 YPC on 208 carries?

That O-line was giving him 3 yards on nearly every run. Add into this the level of competition on some of his better games and I'd say you have your answer. Again, it isn't like the guy isn't talented, but let's say Sankey and Hyde (and I'm not suggesting Sankey is better or taking a "Brewtown" angle here) switched places; do you expect their YPC to remain the same?

I don't.

Last year he played four ranked teams and ran for 113+ yards in all of them except Wisconsin, which he averaged 5.0 YPC in.

His 246 and 226 yard games came against Illinois (giving up 3.3 YPC) and Michigan (giving up 3.8 YPC).

Pro level RBs don't get *drafted* unless they post a 5.0 YPC at a minimum. And again, not to tout Sankey, but the guy also ran it up against Illinois--and with a much worse O-line. The yardage is great, but I'm still not sure this is talent or a strong O-line. Maybe I'll re-read Waldman's take on it through his notes in the RSP...

Maurice Jones-Drew had 2 college season under 5.0 YPC. Demarco Murray was 4.9 his college career on 759 carries.

 

[chinawildman]

Let's not forget that a majority of these rookies are still kids that have alot of growing to do. To my eye, Hyde has all the skills needed to be an effective runner in the NFL, seems like he could use a little conditioning though as sometimes his runs look "lazy".

Bigger backs have never needed to be fast, just quick feet. Bonus that Hyde also appears to excel as pass protection and receiving ability.

 

[biju]

For all of those that are concerned that Hyde is slow on tape and point out his combine doesn't dispute those observations....I have a question for you.

Full disclosure....If I have to RB's I like equally I choose the guy that runs a 4.4 over the 4.6. If I have one RB I like over another, but he runs a 4.6 and the one I like less runs a 4.4. I watch a little more to see if I can see it on tape, to see if I should change my mind....more times than not I will not change my mind. Additionally if I have 2 rbs I like the same and they have very similar combine numbers, I tend to break the tie based on how productive the players were (I certainly consider the competition faced as well, not just blind stats)

It seems several here are basing their view on Hyde looking slow and timing slow and therefore believe he wont be good in the NFL.

My questions to you are:

What do you think Frank Gore's 40 and 10 yard split would have been at the start of last year?

Do you think Gore (last year) looked quicker and faster than Hyde?

I'll play...

40 time: probably ~mid 4.7. Gore was never "fast" compared to other RBs.

10 yard split: 1.6s. I think Gore still has acceleration above Hyde even at his current age

And I think Gore 2013 is about as quick as Hyde coming out of school. Plus Gore has excellent vision and is proven at the NFL level. Essentially, Gore has been shifty, with great vision and instincts throughout his career. Kind of the opposite from what I see in Hyde.

He 'was' fast but by the time he got to the NFL

I'd expect Gore to have a faster 10 yard split since he's 15 lbs. lighter.

Riddle me this...

How does a big slow, non-explosive, non-shifty, poor vision and instincts RB average 7.3 YPC on 208 carries?

That O-line was giving him 3 yards on nearly every run. Add into this the level of competition on some of his better games and I'd say you have your answer. Again, it isn't like the guy isn't talented, but let's say Sankey and Hyde (and I'm not suggesting Sankey is better or taking a "Brewtown" angle here) switched places; do you expect their YPC to remain the same?

I don't.

Last year he played four ranked teams and ran for 113+ yards in all of them except Wisconsin, which he averaged 5.0 YPC in.

His 246 and 226 yard games came against Illinois (giving up 3.3 YPC) and Michigan (giving up 3.8 YPC).

Pro level RBs don't get *drafted* unless they post a 5.0 YPC at a minimum. And again, not to tout Sankey, but the guy also ran it up against Illinois--and with a much worse O-line. The yardage is great, but I'm still not sure this is talent or a strong O-line. Maybe I'll re-read Waldman's take on it through his notes in the RSP...

Maurice Jones-Drew had 2 college season under 5.0 YPC. Demarco Murray was 4.9 his college career on 759 carries.

I should have qualified this statement a little. I've read (from scouts--this is why I'm making this statement) that the season before they come out needs to be above 5 YPC. When you're a true freshman I don't think anyone is expecting you to average that number.

 

[cloppbeast]

Let's not forget Hyde's ypc during his first 3 years, around 5.5.

I'm surprised folks get caught up in Hyde's efficiency last year, with all things considered. Urban Meyer's read option offense has helped a lot of non NFL talents produce in college - even at Florida in the SEC. Put him in the Big Ten coaching Ohio State, with talent far outclassing almost everybody they played, you would expect even further domination.

This doesn't necessarily serve as an indictment of Hyde, but a reason to proceed with caution. Meaning: you may pay more attention to a glaring weakness - like utter lack of burst, for instance.

 

[humpback]

That O-line was giving him 3 yards on nearly every run. Add into this the level of competition on some of his better games and I'd say you have your answer. Again, it isn't like the guy isn't talented, but let's say Sankey and Hyde (and I'm not suggesting Sankey is better or taking a "Brewtown" angle here) switched places; do you expect their YPC to remain the same?

I don't.

Last year he played four ranked teams and ran for 113+ yards in all of them except Wisconsin, which he averaged 5.0 YPC in.

His 246 and 226 yard games came against Illinois (giving up 3.3 YPC) and Michigan (giving up 3.8 YPC).

Pro level RBs don't get *drafted* unless they post a 5.0 YPC at a minimum. And again, not to tout Sankey, but the guy also ran it up against Illinois--and with a much worse O-line. The yardage is great, but I'm still not sure this is talent or a strong O-line. Maybe I'll re-read Waldman's take on it through his notes in the RSP...

There are certainly things you can knock Hyde about, but some of these statements are just plain silly. He wasn't talking about his season ypc (which was a ridiculous 7.3), he was talking about the one game vs. a ranked opponent where he didn't reach 113+ yards. Sankey had a great game against Illinois, but his 5.9 ypc and 2 total TDs pales in comparison to Hyde's 10.3 ypc and 5 total TDs vs. them. Trying to play the competition angle is just absurd.

 

[biju]

That O-line was giving him 3 yards on nearly every run. Add into this the level of competition on some of his better games and I'd say you have your answer. Again, it isn't like the guy isn't talented, but let's say Sankey and Hyde (and I'm not suggesting Sankey is better or taking a "Brewtown" angle here) switched places; do you expect their YPC to remain the same?

I don't.

Last year he played four ranked teams and ran for 113+ yards in all of them except Wisconsin, which he averaged 5.0 YPC in.

His 246 and 226 yard games came against Illinois (giving up 3.3 YPC) and Michigan (giving up 3.8 YPC).

Pro level RBs don't get *drafted* unless they post a 5.0 YPC at a minimum. And again, not to tout Sankey, but the guy also ran it up against Illinois--and with a much worse O-line. The yardage is great, but I'm still not sure this is talent or a strong O-line. Maybe I'll re-read Waldman's take on it through his notes in the RSP...

There are certainly things you can knock Hyde about, but some of these statements are just plain silly. He wasn't talking about his season ypc (which was a ridiculous 7.3), he was talking about the one game vs. a ranked opponent where he didn't reach 113+ yards. Sankey had a great game against Illinois, but his 5.9 ypc and 2 total TDs pales in comparison to Hyde's 10.3 ypc and 5 total TDs vs. them. Trying to play the competition angle is just absurd.

Again, I don't buy Hyde having anywhere near that game with UW's O-line. I'm not sure why YPC would even be in the discussion for comparing the two unless Sankey had a higher YPC. Watch the two games and tell me how often Sankey is hit in the backfield vs. Hyde having 3 yards untouched.

Again, not a Sankey fan. I'm just not buying the Hyde hype based on what I'm watching (full games, not highlights). If your opinion differs that's great--but the argument needs to be something other than YPC for me to be a believer. It sounds like that wasn't the case in your evaluation and that the hype is merited. We can agree to disagree.

 

[humpback]

That O-line was giving him 3 yards on nearly every run. Add into this the level of competition on some of his better games and I'd say you have your answer. Again, it isn't like the guy isn't talented, but let's say Sankey and Hyde (and I'm not suggesting Sankey is better or taking a "Brewtown" angle here) switched places; do you expect their YPC to remain the same?

I don't.

Last year he played four ranked teams and ran for 113+ yards in all of them except Wisconsin, which he averaged 5.0 YPC in.

His 246 and 226 yard games came against Illinois (giving up 3.3 YPC) and Michigan (giving up 3.8 YPC).

Pro level RBs don't get *drafted* unless they post a 5.0 YPC at a minimum. And again, not to tout Sankey, but the guy also ran it up against Illinois--and with a much worse O-line. The yardage is great, but I'm still not sure this is talent or a strong O-line. Maybe I'll re-read Waldman's take on it through his notes in the RSP...

There are certainly things you can knock Hyde about, but some of these statements are just plain silly. He wasn't talking about his season ypc (which was a ridiculous 7.3), he was talking about the one game vs. a ranked opponent where he didn't reach 113+ yards. Sankey had a great game against Illinois, but his 5.9 ypc and 2 total TDs pales in comparison to Hyde's 10.3 ypc and 5 total TDs vs. them. Trying to play the competition angle is just absurd.

Again, I don't buy Hyde having anywhere near that game with UW's O-line. I'm not sure why YPC would even be in the discussion for comparing the two unless Sankey had a higher YPC. Watch the two games and tell me how often Sankey is hit in the backfield vs. Hyde having 3 yards untouched.

Again, not a Sankey fan. I'm just not buying the Hyde hype based on what I'm watching (full games, not highlights). If your opinion differs that's great--but the argument needs to be something other than YPC for me to be a believer. It sounds like that wasn't the case in your evaluation and that the hype is merited. We can agree to disagree.

You can "not buy" anything you want since there's no way of knowing, but this isn't about Hyde per se, it's about your arguments. YPC would obviously be in the discussion for comparing the two when you bring them up as a comparison ("the guy also ran it up against Illinois"). Now you're trying to say that Sankey had that game while being constantly hit in the backfield while Hyde had truck sized holes to run through? Just stop. We get it, you don't like Hyde, but this argument is ridiculous.

 

[biju]

That O-line was giving him 3 yards on nearly every run. Add into this the level of competition on some of his better games and I'd say you have your answer. Again, it isn't like the guy isn't talented, but let's say Sankey and Hyde (and I'm not suggesting Sankey is better or taking a "Brewtown" angle here) switched places; do you expect their YPC to remain the same?

I don't.

Last year he played four ranked teams and ran for 113+ yards in all of them except Wisconsin, which he averaged 5.0 YPC in.

His 246 and 226 yard games came against Illinois (giving up 3.3 YPC) and Michigan (giving up 3.8 YPC).

Pro level RBs don't get *drafted* unless they post a 5.0 YPC at a minimum. And again, not to tout Sankey, but the guy also ran it up against Illinois--and with a much worse O-line. The yardage is great, but I'm still not sure this is talent or a strong O-line. Maybe I'll re-read Waldman's take on it through his notes in the RSP...

There are certainly things you can knock Hyde about, but some of these statements are just plain silly. He wasn't talking about his season ypc (which was a ridiculous 7.3), he was talking about the one game vs. a ranked opponent where he didn't reach 113+ yards. Sankey had a great game against Illinois, but his 5.9 ypc and 2 total TDs pales in comparison to Hyde's 10.3 ypc and 5 total TDs vs. them. Trying to play the competition angle is just absurd.

Again, I don't buy Hyde having anywhere near that game with UW's O-line. I'm not sure why YPC would even be in the discussion for comparing the two unless Sankey had a higher YPC. Watch the two games and tell me how often Sankey is hit in the backfield vs. Hyde having 3 yards untouched.

Again, not a Sankey fan. I'm just not buying the Hyde hype based on what I'm watching (full games, not highlights). If your opinion differs that's great--but the argument needs to be something other than YPC for me to be a believer. It sounds like that wasn't the case in your evaluation and that the hype is merited. We can agree to disagree.

You can "not buy" anything you want since there's no way of knowing, but this isn't about Hyde per se, it's about your arguments. YPC would obviously be in the discussion for comparing the two when you bring them up as a comparison ("the guy also ran it up against Illinois"). Now you're trying to say that Sankey had that game while being constantly hit in the backfield while Hyde had truck sized holes to run through? Just stop. We get it, you don't like Hyde, but this argument is ridiculous.

Here's the video of the game (not the highlights, all of his carries):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFMliUhe_EQ

When the line blocks he gets yardage but he isn't creating on his own. You can keep calling my argument ridiculous without actually having an argument, or you can try to point out where I'm wrong. He has a great run where he actually stops and has the vision to find the right cut around the 2:20 mark and excellent power around the 3:23 mark.

Here's Sankey:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qmBRwlTx8Y

Without even watching the RB I suggest just watching the lines and whether they are pushing forward or getting pushed back. Hell, maybe I'm only seeing what I want to see and everyone else is right, but I don't think that's the case between the lines.

Look, I'm trying to have a conversation so just saying it is "ridiculous" without any additional information isn't constructive. If you don't want to have a constructive conversation then just admit as much. I'll be happy to be wrong on this if you can show me what you're seeing...

 

[cloppbeast]

You can "not buy" anything you want since there's no way of knowing, but this isn't about Hyde per se, it's about your arguments. YPC would obviously be in the discussion for comparing the two when you bring them up as a comparison ("the guy also ran it up against Illinois"). Now you're trying to say that Sankey had that game while being constantly hit in the backfield while Hyde had truck sized holes to run through? Just stop. We get it, you don't like Hyde, but this argument is ridiculous.

biju, you got pulled over by the argument police.

Hopefully he lets you off with a warning, but I doubt it. He doesn't seem in the best of moods.

 

[SF409ers]

You can "not buy" anything you want since there's no way of knowing, but this isn't about Hyde per se, it's about your arguments. YPC would obviously be in the discussion for comparing the two when you bring them up as a comparison ("the guy also ran it up against Illinois"). Now you're trying to say that Sankey had that game while being constantly hit in the backfield while Hyde had truck sized holes to run through? Just stop. We get it, you don't like Hyde, but this argument is ridiculous.

I would not waste much time taking his "analysis" serioulsy. He is one of the worst hawk troll posters on this board.

 

[humpback]

That O-line was giving him 3 yards on nearly every run. Add into this the level of competition on some of his better games and I'd say you have your answer. Again, it isn't like the guy isn't talented, but let's say Sankey and Hyde (and I'm not suggesting Sankey is better or taking a "Brewtown" angle here) switched places; do you expect their YPC to remain the same?

I don't.

Last year he played four ranked teams and ran for 113+ yards in all of them except Wisconsin, which he averaged 5.0 YPC in.

His 246 and 226 yard games came against Illinois (giving up 3.3 YPC) and Michigan (giving up 3.8 YPC).

Pro level RBs don't get *drafted* unless they post a 5.0 YPC at a minimum. And again, not to tout Sankey, but the guy also ran it up against Illinois--and with a much worse O-line. The yardage is great, but I'm still not sure this is talent or a strong O-line. Maybe I'll re-read Waldman's take on it through his notes in the RSP...

There are certainly things you can knock Hyde about, but some of these statements are just plain silly. He wasn't talking about his season ypc (which was a ridiculous 7.3), he was talking about the one game vs. a ranked opponent where he didn't reach 113+ yards. Sankey had a great game against Illinois, but his 5.9 ypc and 2 total TDs pales in comparison to Hyde's 10.3 ypc and 5 total TDs vs. them. Trying to play the competition angle is just absurd.

Again, I don't buy Hyde having anywhere near that game with UW's O-line. I'm not sure why YPC would even be in the discussion for comparing the two unless Sankey had a higher YPC. Watch the two games and tell me how often Sankey is hit in the backfield vs. Hyde having 3 yards untouched.

Again, not a Sankey fan. I'm just not buying the Hyde hype based on what I'm watching (full games, not highlights). If your opinion differs that's great--but the argument needs to be something other than YPC for me to be a believer. It sounds like that wasn't the case in your evaluation and that the hype is merited. We can agree to disagree.

You can "not buy" anything you want since there's no way of knowing, but this isn't about Hyde per se, it's about your arguments. YPC would obviously be in the discussion for comparing the two when you bring them up as a comparison ("the guy also ran it up against Illinois"). Now you're trying to say that Sankey had that game while being constantly hit in the backfield while Hyde had truck sized holes to run through? Just stop. We get it, you don't like Hyde, but this argument is ridiculous.

Here's the video of the game (not the highlights, all of his carries):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFMliUhe_EQ

When the line blocks he gets yardage but he isn't creating on his own. You can keep calling my argument ridiculous without actually having an argument, or you can try to point out where I'm wrong. He has a great run where he actually stops and has the vision to find the right cut around the 2:20 mark and excellent power around the 3:23 mark.

Here's Sankey:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qmBRwlTx8Y

Without even watching the RB I suggest just watching the lines and whether they are pushing forward or getting pushed back. Hell, maybe I'm only seeing what I want to see and everyone else is right, but I don't think that's the case between the lines.

Look, I'm trying to have a conversation so just saying it is "ridiculous" without any additional information isn't constructive. If you don't want to have a constructive conversation then just admit as much. I'll be happy to be wrong on this if you can show me what you're seeing...

I've already watched those. Care to point out all of the times Sankey had to run for his life behind the LOS? Where are all of the monster holes that Hyde had? If you're being objective, they both had pretty good O-line play in those games, and they both had some pretty easy runs along with some impressive ones. Neither was harassed much behind the LOS, a couple of times each.

No one is arguing that Hyde didn't have a better O-line to run behind last season. No one is saying that there aren't legitimate things to knock/question him about. What I am saying is that you seem incapable of being objective here, and these particular arguments you've made are incredibly weak- seriously, you don't know why YPC would be in the discussion when evaluating performance (unless the other guy's was higher)? You're holding it against him that he performed well against weaker opponents (without acknowledging that pretty much everyone does that, and that he had good games against tough opponents as well)? Every time someone refutes one of your claims, you ignore it and try to come up with another one.

 

[humpback]

You can "not buy" anything you want since there's no way of knowing, but this isn't about Hyde per se, it's about your arguments. YPC would obviously be in the discussion for comparing the two when you bring them up as a comparison ("the guy also ran it up against Illinois"). Now you're trying to say that Sankey had that game while being constantly hit in the backfield while Hyde had truck sized holes to run through? Just stop. We get it, you don't like Hyde, but this argument is ridiculous.

biju, you got pulled over by the argument police.

Hopefully he lets you off with a warning, but I doubt it. He doesn't seem in the best of moods.

Oh, good, the guy who evaluates RBs based on their 10 yard split is back.

 

[menobrown]

If you can afford to wait a year this guy could easily pay off big time.

I think that's what the people were saying about Lattimore last season.

I believe the 49'ers have drafted a RB in 7 out of the last 8 years and I think they've got another bounty of picks next year. So I would not rule out the possibility of holding Hyde only to see him get Lattimored himself and for that matter it's still to early to rule out Lattimore.

The wait and their penchant for drafting RB's has me a little down on Hyde. That and the system has not been ideal for RB's fantasy value, at least in PPR leagues. Every year Harbaugh has been the coach they've finished exactly 29th in pass attempts to RB's. Possibly this will increase to more satisfactory levels once the passing volume as a whole picks up but it's a big of a concern to me right now. SF RB's upside seem to be RB2 in PPR leagues, is that worth the hold and hope they don't draft someone else or Lattimore does not get right?

On a positive note Frank Gore is alleged to be involved in some underage/prostitute/sidechick sex scandal which so far seems to have not caused a ripple but you never know when something like that might start to blow up.

 

[biju]

That O-line was giving him 3 yards on nearly every run. Add into this the level of competition on some of his better games and I'd say you have your answer. Again, it isn't like the guy isn't talented, but let's say Sankey and Hyde (and I'm not suggesting Sankey is better or taking a "Brewtown" angle here) switched places; do you expect their YPC to remain the same?

I don't.

Last year he played four ranked teams and ran for 113+ yards in all of them except Wisconsin, which he averaged 5.0 YPC in.

His 246 and 226 yard games came against Illinois (giving up 3.3 YPC) and Michigan (giving up 3.8 YPC).

Pro level RBs don't get *drafted* unless they post a 5.0 YPC at a minimum. And again, not to tout Sankey, but the guy also ran it up against Illinois--and with a much worse O-line. The yardage is great, but I'm still not sure this is talent or a strong O-line. Maybe I'll re-read Waldman's take on it through his notes in the RSP...

There are certainly things you can knock Hyde about, but some of these statements are just plain silly. He wasn't talking about his season ypc (which was a ridiculous 7.3), he was talking about the one game vs. a ranked opponent where he didn't reach 113+ yards. Sankey had a great game against Illinois, but his 5.9 ypc and 2 total TDs pales in comparison to Hyde's 10.3 ypc and 5 total TDs vs. them. Trying to play the competition angle is just absurd.

Again, I don't buy Hyde having anywhere near that game with UW's O-line. I'm not sure why YPC would even be in the discussion for comparing the two unless Sankey had a higher YPC. Watch the two games and tell me how often Sankey is hit in the backfield vs. Hyde having 3 yards untouched.

Again, not a Sankey fan. I'm just not buying the Hyde hype based on what I'm watching (full games, not highlights). If your opinion differs that's great--but the argument needs to be something other than YPC for me to be a believer. It sounds like that wasn't the case in your evaluation and that the hype is merited. We can agree to disagree.

You can "not buy" anything you want since there's no way of knowing, but this isn't about Hyde per se, it's about your arguments. YPC would obviously be in the discussion for comparing the two when you bring them up as a comparison ("the guy also ran it up against Illinois"). Now you're trying to say that Sankey had that game while being constantly hit in the backfield while Hyde had truck sized holes to run through? Just stop. We get it, you don't like Hyde, but this argument is ridiculous.

Here's the video of the game (not the highlights, all of his carries):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFMliUhe_EQ

When the line blocks he gets yardage but he isn't creating on his own. You can keep calling my argument ridiculous without actually having an argument, or you can try to point out where I'm wrong. He has a great run where he actually stops and has the vision to find the right cut around the 2:20 mark and excellent power around the 3:23 mark.

Here's Sankey:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qmBRwlTx8Y

Without even watching the RB I suggest just watching the lines and whether they are pushing forward or getting pushed back. Hell, maybe I'm only seeing what I want to see and everyone else is right, but I don't think that's the case between the lines.

Look, I'm trying to have a conversation so just saying it is "ridiculous" without any additional information isn't constructive. If you don't want to have a constructive conversation then just admit as much. I'll be happy to be wrong on this if you can show me what you're seeing...

I've already watched those. Care to point out all of the times Sankey had to run for his life behind the LOS? Where are all of the monster holes that Hyde had? If you're being objective, they both had pretty good O-line play in those games, and they both had some pretty easy runs along with some impressive ones. Neither was harassed much behind the LOS, a couple of times each.

No one is arguing that Hyde didn't have a better O-line to run behind last season. No one is saying that there aren't legitimate things to knock/question him about. What I am saying is that you seem incapable of being objective here, and these particular arguments you've made are incredibly weak- seriously, you don't know why YPC would be in the discussion when evaluating performance (unless the other guy's was higher)? You're holding it against him that he performed well against weaker opponents (without acknowledging that pretty much everyone does that, and that he had good games against tough opponents as well)? Every time someone refutes one of your claims, you ignore it and try to come up with another one.

Actually, all I've said the entire time is that YPC is indicative of how the team has functioned, not the skill of the RB alone. Well, that and I don't see any elusiveness/vision from Hyde. Alternatively, you keep saying YPC means more and for me to point out what's in the videos.

Fine.

Hyde clip #1: pass blocking
Hyde clip #2: pass blocking
Hyde clip #3: O-line gets two yards of blocking, Hyde gets an additional 5 yards after contact
Hyde clip #4: Hyde untouched for 8 yards, gets two falling forward
Hyde clip #5: Hyde gets nothing from the line, tries to bounce it outside for nothing
Hyde clip #6: Hyde gets nothing from the line, powers forward for 4
Hyde clip #7: Hyde catches in flat and takes it into the endzone for 18 yards. Runs away from the defender to make him miss in the open field.
Hyde clip #8: Hyde goes 6 yards before an arm tackle, continues for an additional 23 (caught from behind)
Hyde clip #9: Designed play outside, Hyde slips trying to elude a tackler. No gain.
Hyde clip #10: O-line gives Hyde 2 yards and he gains an extra 2 falling forward.
Hyde clip #11: Hyde bounces the run outside (excellent vision + defender takes a bad angle) and scores from 8 yards out.
Hyde clip #12: Line gives him nothing and he loses a yard.
Hyde clip #13: Line gives him nothing and he's patient (!!) gets 11 or so.
Hyde clip #14: Line gives him nothing and he gets ~3.
Hyde clip #15: Line gives him 2 and and gets an additional yard
Hyde clip #16: Line gives him nothing and he gets 2.
Hyde clip #17: Line gives him nothing and he gets nothing.
Hyde clip #18: Catch in the flat for 10. First defender doesn't bring him down.
Hyde clip #19: pass blocking
Hyde clip #20: pass blocking
Hyde clip #21: Line gives him 2 and get powers through 2 players for an additional two.
Hyde clip #22: 1 yard TD untouched
Hyde clip #23: untouched for 5 yards, trips on O-lineman's leg and falls for four.
Hyde clip #24: pass blocking
Hyde clip #25: Lines gives him nothing and he gets 2.
Hyde clip #26: Blocks for QB draw
Hyde clip #27: Blocks for QB draw
Hyde clip #28: Runs for 12 untouched, tackled from behind and falls forward for an additional 4
Hyde clip #29: pass blocking
Hyde clip #30: Runs for 8 untouched, gets an extra 2 after contact
Hyde clip #31: Good cut at line, makes another person miss after 5 yards and tackled for a total of 12. Great run.
Hyde clip #32: pass blocking (and holds his man well for a long time)
Hyde clip #33: untouched for 12, falls for an additional 3.
Hyde clip #34: untouched for 25 and runs through some extremely weak arm "tackles" for an additional ~28. TD. Made a good cut in the face of a defender.
Hyde clip #35: untouched for 25. Smaller defender tries to knock him down instead of form tackling; he runs for an additional 40 for the TD.

That makes the "uncontested" total ~114 yards. Additionally, he gained ~90 yards due to poor tackling; one might conclude this is part of the power aspect so I don't want to dismiss it but 40 of those yards should not have been had at all. That leaves about ~60 yards or so he created on his own then?

Now here's Sankey:
Sankey clip #1: runs untouched for 11, falls forward for 3. Makes a man miss at ~3 yards in
Sankey clip #2: pass play, route into the flat
Sankey clip #3: line gives him 3, he gets an additional 2
Sankey clip #4: line gives him nothing, he gets 8
Sankey clip #5: line gives him nothing, he gets 4
Sankey clip #6: pass block (and not a good cut block)
Sankey clip #7: line gives him a yard, he gets an additional 3 on a good cut
Sankey clip #8: outside play, line gives him 1 he gets an additional 2
Sankey clip #9: line is pushed back and he is contested -1 yard, gets 5 total
Sankey clip #10: pass blocking
Sankey clip #11: pass blocking
Sankey clip #12: catch in the flat and runs untouched for 31, TD.
Sankey clip #13: defender in the backfield, bounces it outside and goes untouched for 3 before getting hit, falls forward for an additional 3.
Sankey clip #14: line gives him nothing, powers for 2 (not terribly impressive power)
Sankey clip #15: line gives him nothing, he bounces it outside and turns upfield for 3 before getting hit; gets an additional 3.
Sankey clip #16: line gives him nothing, he bounces it outside and turns upfield for 14 before getting hit; gets an additional 6 dragging two defenders.
Sankey clip #17: catches a shovel pass in the short middle and runs for 11. Slips trying to make a defender miss.
Sankey clip #18: pass blocking
Sankey clip #19: line gives him nothing, he gets 4
Sankey clip #20: contested in the backfield (-1), makes man miss and gets 2 total.
Sankey clip #21: pass blocking
Sankey clip #22: sweep right, and contested in the backfield. Gets 5.
Sankey clip #23: line gives him nothing and a defender is in the backfield. bounces it outside and gets 25 before going OB. Great WR blocking on the outside to seal off their guys.
Sankey clip #24: line gives him nothing and he gets 8.
Sankey clip #25: line gives him 2 and he makes a good cut and takes it 20 more yards to the 1. Would have liked to see him run through the defender that makes the stop.
Sankey clip #26: Untouched for 1 yard TD.
Sankey clip #27: line gives him nothing, he gets nothing.
Sankey clip #28: pass blocking
Sankey clip #29: line gives him about 1, bounces outside and gets 4 more.
Sankey clip #30: sweep right and contested in backfield (-1), gets 4 total
Sankey clip #31: gets about 4 from the line and an additional 4 from a good cut. Looks like one of the linemen was holding on the play to get him the first 4.
Sankey clip #32: line gives him nothing, he bounces outside for 4.
Sankey clip #33: line gives him 2 and he gets an additional 2.
Sankey clip #34: line gives him nothing and he gets 3
Sankey clip #35: line gives him 1 and he gets an additional 4
Sankey clip #36: contested in backfield (-2) but make the defender miss, gets positive 2 yards.
Sankey clip #37: pass blocking (picks right guy)
Sankey clip #38: catch over the short middle and goes for 12 before getting hit, falls forward for 4 more.
Sankey clip #39: line gives him nothing and he gets 3.
Sankey clip #40: line gives him nothing and has first contact at LOS, gets 4.
Sankey clip #41: line gives him 8 and he gets an additional 1
Sankey clip #42: contested in backfield (-2) and he loses an additional 1 trying to escape
Sankey clip #43: line gives him 1 and he gets an additional 1
Sankey clip #44: line gives him little and he bounces outside, goes untouched for 25.
Sankey clip #45: line gives him 2 he gets an additional 2
Sankey clip #46: contested in backfield (-1) and ends up losing a yard
Sankey clip #47: line gives him 6 and he gets an additional 4

That makes the "uncontested" total ~35 yards for Sankey. ETA: One thing is for sure: Sankey bounces too much outside and he's not going to get away with that in the NFL.

So now what do you want to do? Refute what each clip is giving Hyde?

 

[humpback]

For starters, if I'm doing the quick math correctly you gave Sankey 24 more rushing yards than he actually had on the day, so that would make me question what you're seeing on tape.

Here's an article showing some pertinent data. For a guy who relies so much on his O-line as you say, it's peculiar how he breaks so many more tackles and ran for so many more yards after contact than Sankey did. It's also peculiar how he averaged 9.29 ypc on outside runs (more than 2 1/2 more per carry than Sankey on those) since he's slower than molasses.

So, if these two games went down how you're seeing it, that would mean in order for those stats to hold true Hyde must have gone tecmo bowl in every other game while Sankey was putrid. Either that, or you are so much better at this than the other guy.

 

[biju]

For starters, if I'm doing the quick math correctly you gave Sankey 24 more rushing yards than he actually had on the day, so that would make me question what you're seeing on tape.

Here's an article showing some pertinent data. For a guy who relies so much on his O-line as you say, it's peculiar how he breaks so many more tackles and ran for so many more yards after contact than Sankey did. It's also peculiar how he averaged 9.29 ypc on outside runs (more than 2 1/2 more per carry than Sankey on those) since he's slower than molasses.

So, if these two games went down how you're seeing it, that would mean in order for those stats to hold true Hyde must have gone tecmo bowl in every other game while Sankey was putrid. Either that, or you are so much better at this than the other guy.

That's right on the Sankey math. Not sure if that's because there was a holding call that wasn't shown on the cuts (I did call out one that I thought was obvious that was for 8), but you're correct there.

Again, those "broken" tackles were weak arm tackles. Yep, he did it. But if you want to break down the form tackles I didn't see any discerable difference between the two backs. Sankey didn't have the arm tackles Hyde did so for these two games I wouldn't be able to make a determination.

If the guy did the research then it's tough to refute the findings. (Just for the record, it appears *you* are the one trying to change the argument.) But to counter your argument the amount gets capped at 15 yards so that's likely the reason for the variance. You might try reading the article you quote as evidence against me. I am interested in the outside runs and specifically how Sankey has so many more than the other backs. I wonder (and just guessing so don't get twisted up in my conjecture) if this is designed runs or if it is how it played out because a large number of Sankey's runs start up the middle and get bounced out.

It feels to me like you think I'm tearing down Hyde and pumping up Sankey. I was merely using them as examples of why college YPC might not be the best metric for RB success in the NFL.

 

[humpback]

For starters, if I'm doing the quick math correctly you gave Sankey 24 more rushing yards than he actually had on the day, so that would make me question what you're seeing on tape.

Here's an article showing some pertinent data. For a guy who relies so much on his O-line as you say, it's peculiar how he breaks so many more tackles and ran for so many more yards after contact than Sankey did. It's also peculiar how he averaged 9.29 ypc on outside runs (more than 2 1/2 more per carry than Sankey on those) since he's slower than molasses.

So, if these two games went down how you're seeing it, that would mean in order for those stats to hold true Hyde must have gone tecmo bowl in every other game while Sankey was putrid. Either that, or you are so much better at this than the other guy.

That's right on the Sankey math. Not sure if that's because there was a holding call that wasn't shown on the cuts (I did call out one that I thought was obvious that was for 8), but you're correct there.

Again, those "broken" tackles were weak arm tackles. Yep, he did it. But if you want to break down the form tackles I didn't see any discerable difference between the two backs. Sankey didn't have the arm tackles Hyde did so for these two games I wouldn't be able to make a determination.

If the guy did the research then it's tough to refute the findings. (Just for the record, it appears *you* are the one trying to change the argument.) But to counter your argument the amount gets capped at 15 yards so that's likely the reason for the variance. You might try reading the article you quote as evidence against me. I am interested in the outside runs and specifically how Sankey has so many more than the other backs. I wonder (and just guessing so don't get twisted up in my conjecture) if this is designed runs or if it is how it played out because a large number of Sankey's runs start up the middle and get bounced out.

It feels to me like you think I'm tearing down Hyde and pumping up Sankey. I was merely using them as examples of why college YPC might not be the best metric for RB success in the NFL.

Why do I get the feeling that I'm on punked?

I read the article obviously, and if true, it's pretty compelling evidence that you are wrong in your assessment. Hyde appears to be among the best at breaking tackles and gaining additional yardage after contact, while Sankey is among the worst of those profiled. That's not because of the O-line, that's mostly on the RB. Hyde seems to have had a very good O-line and he was very good at making things happen on his own.

Another straw man, but I didn't say YPC is the best metric for RB success in the NFL, never even hinted at such a thing. I only mentioned it to show who "ran it up" more against Illinois when you brought Sankey into the conversation. You can at least try and argue that they weren't mainly responsible for their stats, but you can't argue that 38 more rushing yards, a 4.4 ypc advantage and 4 to 1 rushing TDs are even close to the same results.

 

[Andrew74]

Does every player thread have to have one person beating some mantra endlessly against a player?

 

[MAC_32]

Let's not forget Hyde's ypc during his first 3 years, around 5.5.

I'm surprised folks get caught up in Hyde's efficiency last year, with all things considered. Urban Meyer's read option offense has helped a lot of non NFL talents produce in college - even at Florida in the SEC. Put him in the Big Ten coaching Ohio State, with talent far outclassing almost everybody they played, you would expect even further domination.

This doesn't necessarily serve as an indictment of Hyde, but a reason to proceed with caution. Meaning: you may pay more attention to a glaring weakness - like utter lack of burst, for instance.

I think this argument lost legs after the game against Michigan State.

 

[cloppbeast]

Let's not forget Hyde's ypc during his first 3 years, around 5.5.

I'm surprised folks get caught up in Hyde's efficiency last year, with all things considered. Urban Meyer's read option offense has helped a lot of non NFL talents produce in college - even at Florida in the SEC. Put him in the Big Ten coaching Ohio State, with talent far outclassing almost everybody they played, you would expect even further domination.

This doesn't necessarily serve as an indictment of Hyde, but a reason to proceed with caution. Meaning: you may pay more attention to a glaring weakness - like utter lack of burst, for instance.

I think this argument lost legs after the game against Michigan State.

One game does not surmount my argument of many facets.

To put it simpler: one can come up with a lot of explanations for Hyde's production which don't include he created it all himself. The offensive scheme/dominance at Ohio State differs greatly from what he'll see in the NFL - evenly matched, less zone read. His performance against Michigan St does not change those facts.

 

[MAC_32]

Let's not forget Hyde's ypc during his first 3 years, around 5.5.

I'm surprised folks get caught up in Hyde's efficiency last year, with all things considered. Urban Meyer's read option offense has helped a lot of non NFL talents produce in college - even at Florida in the SEC. Put him in the Big Ten coaching Ohio State, with talent far outclassing almost everybody they played, you would expect even further domination.

This doesn't necessarily serve as an indictment of Hyde, but a reason to proceed with caution. Meaning: you may pay more attention to a glaring weakness - like utter lack of burst, for instance.

I think this argument lost legs after the game against Michigan State.

One game does not surmount my argument of many facets.

To put it simpler: one can come up with a lot of explanations for Hyde's production which don't include he created it all himself. The offensive scheme/dominance at Ohio State differs greatly from what he'll see in the NFL - evenly matched, less zone read. His performance against Michigan St does not change those facts.

he ran over, around, and past arguably the best defense in college football. Ignoring that would not be wise.Granted I liked him before that game, but I was sold after seeing that performance. As a Michigan fan I couldn't help but laugh when they stupidly went away from him in the second half. He was the only thing that was working.

 

[cloppbeast]

he ran over, around, and past arguably the best defense in college football. Ignoring that would not be wise.

Granted I liked him before that game, but I was sold after seeing that performance. As a Michigan fan I couldn't help but laugh when they stupidly went away from him in the second half. He was the only thing that was working.

I wouldn't go around ignoring any one game, but I also wouldn't go around placing greater emphasis one either. You don't judge a painting by a handful of brush strokes, you have to look at the whole thing.

 

[Faust]

@7RoundsInApril · Jun 10

Remember...comps use pre-draft info for all players - current prospects are compared only to past *prospects*. NFL careers not considered.

@7RoundsInApril · Jun 10

Ranked first by tier, and then within tier. Assumes all positions have equal value.

@7RoundsInApril · Jun 10

#7 Carlos Hyde: Eddie Lacy, Cedric Benson, maybe Arian Foster

@7RoundsInApril · Jun 10

Forgot to mention... #6 to #12 are Elite Prospects with Added Risk or Good Prospects with Clean Profiles

 

[Bojang0301]

Let's not forget Hyde's ypc during his first 3 years, around 5.5.

I'm surprised folks get caught up in Hyde's efficiency last year, with all things considered. Urban Meyer's read option offense has helped a lot of non NFL talents produce in college - even at Florida in the SEC. Put him in the Big Ten coaching Ohio State, with talent far outclassing almost everybody they played, you would expect even further domination.

This doesn't necessarily serve as an indictment of Hyde, but a reason to proceed with caution. Meaning: you may pay more attention to a glaring weakness - like utter lack of burst, for instance.

This is just laziness. How many RB's have had major success in Urban Meyer's offense? Please elaborate because I think you'll be surprised on what you'll find.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Carlos Hyde - RB - 49ers

ESPN NFC West blogger Bill Williamson expects rookie Carlos Hyde to end up as the 49ers' No. 2 running back.

Williamson favors Hyde over Marcus Lattimore. Kendall Hunter will remain involved whether or not Frank Gore stays healthy, operating as a change-of-pace back. Williamson is the second reporter who covers the 49ers to indicate Hyde is likely to surpass Lattimore and become second in line for carries behind Gore. CSN Bay Area's Matt Maiocco recently had a similar prediction.

Source: ESPN.com

Jun 16 - 1:04 PM

 

[Sabertooth]

I think that make sense. If Lattimore was ready to be what he might have been, I don't think this team takes Hyde so high.

 

[cstu]

I think that make sense. If Lattimore was ready to be what he might have been, I don't think this team takes Hyde so high.

I don't think it signals the end of Lattimore though. Both Lattimore and Hyde are within a month of each in age and under contract for 4 years. It makes sense to draft somebody without an injury history (Hunter, Lattimore) to back up Gore and then let them battle it out for the starting job next year.

 

[Sabertooth]

I agree. Competition breeds success. I wouldn't be shocked to see a timeshare at some point.

 

[Bojang0301]

I agree. Competition breeds success. I wouldn't be shocked to see a timeshare at some point.

I kind of would. Going back to Toby Gerhart at Stanford, I don't know that Harbaugh hasn't fed a horse in his offense.

 

[Dragon1952]

So a lot of people seem to be saying the reason Hyde did as well as he did at Ohio St is due to the stellar OL. So maybe SF said we've got a top 3 or 4 NFL caliber OL so this is exactly the guy that fits our strength.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Carlos Hyde - RB - 49ers

ESPN NFC West reporter Bill Williamson anticipates second-round pick Carlos Hyde getting "a chance at big playing time right away."

The 49ers' backfield seems crowded at first glance, but isn't. Frank Gore is 31, Kendall Hunter is a change-of-pace back, and Marcus Lattimore is a health question mark. Per Williamson, Hyde "has shined out of the backfield as a runner and receiver," during offseason practices, and is "looking like" a "steal." Hyde is a borderline first-round Dynasty pick, and worth a late re-draft flier.

Source: ESPN.com

Jun 23 - 3:40 PM

 

[Ketamine Dreams]

It seems like his value is creeping upward. Are people seeing this in drafts, especially rookie ones?

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Carlos Hyde - RB - 49ers

CSN Bay Area's Matt Maiocco suggests rookie Carlos Hyde could earn a role as the 49ers' "short-yardage back."

Overall, however, Hyde's snaps will be decided based upon "his ability in blitz pickup," per Maiocco. Hyde was used sparingly in the passing game at Ohio State, and made his fair share of pass-protection mistakes on college film. He remains the front-runner to open the season as Frank Gore's handcuff. The possible short-yardage gig could be a drain on Gore's touchdown upside.

Source: CSN Bay Area

Jul 16 - 9:26 PM

 

[starks]

In a start up, who are you guys putting him in a tier with? Ellington? Spiller? Tate?

 

[KellysHeroes]

In a start up, who are you guys putting him in a tier with? Ellington? Spiller? Tate?

I take him around Spiller

 

[ldizzle]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2141942-kendall-hunter-injury-updates-on-49ers-rbs-knee-and-recovery

kendall hunter injured. Bump hyde depending on seriousness.

 

[starks]

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2141942-kendall-hunter-injury-updates-on-49ers-rbs-knee-and-recovery

kendall hunter injured. Bump hyde depending on seriousness.

Confirmed ACL tear. Clear cut backup to Gore now...let the ADP surge commence.

 

[Faust]

Carlos Hyde coming along well:

http://espn.go.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/8294/carlos-hyde-coming-along-well

 

[Faust]

49ers Camp Report: Day 3

http://espn.go.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/8308/49ers-camp-report-day-3

Excerpt:

Rookie running back Carlos Hyde looked very explosive in pads.