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RB Dalvin Cook, DAL (4 Viewers)

Is it wrong to pass on Cook for Williams or Davis? If so, who do you take?

Im drooling over Davis. His YAC and Route running ability seal the deal. I've seen his jump ball ability.  Well see his 40 time when the time comes. 

 
Brandon Will said:
Is it wrong to pass on Cook for Williams or Davis? If so, who do you take?

Im drooling over Davis. His YAC and Route running ability seal the deal. I've seen his jump ball ability.  Well see his 40 time when the time comes. 
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It depends on two things, where they land and the makeup of your team. 

 
 

An anonymous NFL scout told Bleacher Report that he trusts Oklahoma RB Joe Mixon more than FSU RB Dalvin Cook.
"The pattern of bad decisions are alarming, really," the scout said of Cook. "With my job on the line, I trust [Joe] Mixon a lot more than Dalvin Cook." Though Cook has never been found guilty of a crime, he's been charged with misdemeanor battery (2015), cited for a violation of animal care (2014), charged with firing a weapon and possession of a weapon on school property (2010) and charged with robbery (2009). Cook has also been charged with criminal mischief after allegedly causing property damage with a BB gun. On top of all that, he has shoulder and hamstring issues, fumbling problems and tested horrifically at the NFL Combine. B/R's Matt Miller predicts he'll fall into the second round.

 
 
Source: Bleacher Report 
Mar 23 - 3:37 PM
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The Teflon Cook! Nothing sticks to this guy!

But actually, that's a long list of putting yourself in bad situations.

 
I didn't realize it was that long of a list of trouble.  I knew about the 2015 battery and the animal issue in 2014 but wow.  Another reason for me to not like him even more than before.  I feel like I can finally knock him out of my top5 instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt due to the consensus.

 
Borden said:
The Teflon Cook! Nothing sticks to this guy!

But actually, that's a long list of putting yourself in bad situations.
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We're really putting stock in stuff from 2009 & 2010? 8+ years ago? What was he 12? 13? The recent stuff is a concern but I'm not worried about his junior high record.

I said in another thread, lotta anonymous GMs piling on Cook now probably hoping they can steal him in the late first. If this kid ends up in Green Bay it's huge on multiple fronts. For one, it's a perfect offense for him. And two, not much trouble to get into up there. Only thing Packers RBs get in trouble for is ####ting in closets. (Just keep him away from any hot tubs.)

 
tombonneau said:
We're really putting stock in stuff from 2009 & 2010? 8+ years ago? What was he 12? 13? The recent stuff is a concern but I'm not worried about his junior high record.

I said in another thread, lotta anonymous GMs piling on Cook now probably hoping they can steal him in the late first. If this kid ends up in Green Bay it's huge on multiple fronts. For one, it's a perfect offense for him. And two, not much trouble to get into up there. Only thing Packers RBs get in trouble for is ####ting in closets. (Just keep him away from any hot tubs.)
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He was born in 95 so 2009 would make him 14 at the time. So, let's say he didn't do any of this stuff but was around/with the people that did. At 14, was hanging around with people/kids who committed a robbery. 15, kids brought a gun to school and fired it. Okay he was young and grew out it? Nope. "Violation of animal care" in 2014. That's a weird one. And the BB gun thing was in 2014 as well. 2015, misdemeanor battery. Apparently, a lady (21) claimed he'd punched her in the face "several" times outside of a bar. 

If not a matter of him just doing a couple stupid kids thing when he was young. It's a pattern of, at best, putting himself in bad situations. He's 21 now. So in 7 years he's had 5 incidents. What does that mean? I have no idea. He doesn't need to be a saint to be a good RB but I wouldn't put this in the "Pro" category. I'm guessing a coach and/or GM has to consider if this guy is a good locker room guy, can they trust him to stay out of trouble, is he coachable, etc. But they also have to consider him not only against other RBs in this class but also other positions. 

From a FF perspective, his character concerns really only matter for him staying on the field. Whether it's suspensions or coaches not liking him. Personally, I don't move him (or anyone) in my rankings based off of character or off field issues. 

 
Borden said:
The Teflon Cook! Nothing sticks to this guy!

But actually, that's a long list of putting yourself in bad situations.
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I think you'll get a solid year out of this guy if he goes to a place like Philly or Indy (Gore eating into his production) but I'm leary of this guy long term.  He could do something stupid again and get a suspension. With Mixon, it's a virtual certainty of 1 and done. He knows it. I have this feeling Cook thinks he's a little Teflon like. I'll pass on Cook at 3 and will hope I can get Mixon at 6.

 
Borden said:
He was born in 95 so 2009 would make him 14 at the time. So, let's say he didn't do any of this stuff but was around/with the people that did. At 14, was hanging around with people/kids who committed a robbery. 15, kids brought a gun to school and fired it. Okay he was young and grew out it? Nope. "Violation of animal care" in 2014. That's a weird one. And the BB gun thing was in 2014 as well. 2015, misdemeanor battery. Apparently, a lady (21) claimed he'd punched her in the face "several" times outside of a bar. 

If not a matter of him just doing a couple stupid kids thing when he was young. It's a pattern of, at best, putting himself in bad situations. He's 21 now. So in 7 years he's had 5 incidents. What does that mean? I have no idea. He doesn't need to be a saint to be a good RB but I wouldn't put this in the "Pro" category. I'm guessing a coach and/or GM has to consider if this guy is a good locker room guy, can they trust him to stay out of trouble, is he coachable, etc. But they also have to consider him not only against other RBs in this class but also other positions. 

From a FF perspective, his character concerns really only matter for him staying on the field. Whether it's suspensions or coaches not liking him. Personally, I don't move him (or anyone) in my rankings based off of character or off field issues. 
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Not to defend the guy, but as a homer, I wanted to add a little context. He grew up in one of the toughest neighborhoods in Miami. Just google "Miami Gardens and murder" and check out the second link. He was basically surrounded by trouble all the time.

The FSU battery case was disturbing to me, but the jury found him not guilty real quick, and one of Cook's main witnesses and supporters in that incident, Travis Rudolph, is known to be a top class individual.

Also, Cook has a ton of mentors in the NFL, who grew up in the same neighborhoods and look after the kids behind them.

 
Borden said:
He was born in 95 so 2009 would make him 14 at the time. So, let's say he didn't do any of this stuff but was around/with the people that did. At 14, was hanging around with people/kids who committed a robbery. 15, kids brought a gun to school and fired it. Okay he was young and grew out it? Nope. "Violation of animal care" in 2014. That's a weird one. And the BB gun thing was in 2014 as well. 2015, misdemeanor battery. Apparently, a lady (21) claimed he'd punched her in the face "several" times outside of a bar. 

If not a matter of him just doing a couple stupid kids thing when he was young. It's a pattern of, at best, putting himself in bad situations. He's 21 now. So in 7 years he's had 5 incidents. What does that mean? I have no idea. He doesn't need to be a saint to be a good RB but I wouldn't put this in the "Pro" category. I'm guessing a coach and/or GM has to consider if this guy is a good locker room guy, can they trust him to stay out of trouble, is he coachable, etc. But they also have to consider him not only against other RBs in this class but also other positions. 

From a FF perspective, his character concerns really only matter for him staying on the field. Whether it's suspensions or coaches not liking him. Personally, I don't move him (or anyone) in my rankings based off of character or off field issues. 
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I suppose you didn't move Josh Gordon in your rankings either.

 
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JohnnyU said:
I suppose you didn't move Josh Gordon in your rankings either.
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This is a weak argument. You picked a very specific and rare case. You're talking about a guy that went in supplemental draft and the wheels completely fell off. For every Gordon or Blackmon there's a Dez, Lev Bell, Blount, Zeke, Shady, Winston, and on and on. Even the almost unanimous #1 fantasy player, OBJ, has taken criticism over partying too much. Randy Moss was one of the best receivers ever and had "character" issues. 

My logic for not moving guys in my rankings is that we don't actually know how these guys will turn out. 

 
JackReacher said:
Not to defend the guy, but as a homer, I wanted to add a little context. He grew up in one of the toughest neighborhoods in Miami. Just google "Miami Gardens and murder" and check out the second link. He was basically surrounded by trouble all the time.

The FSU battery case was disturbing to me, but the jury found him not guilty real quick, and one of Cook's main witnesses and supporters in that incident, Travis Rudolph, is known to be a top class individual.

Also, Cook has a ton of mentors in the NFL, who grew up in the same neighborhoods and look after the kids behind them.
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Defend away. It's likely he's just a normal guy than put him self in some bad situations. But as a NFL team they look into all kinds of stuff like that. Daniel Jeremiah has said that he'd call the equipment managers and the video department and ask how the guy he was scouting treated people. I guess Manziel was notoriously a jerk to those people. 

Rudolph is the WR that had lunch with that little kid who was by sitting by himself?

 
Borden said:
He was born in 95 so 2009 would make him 14 at the time. So, let's say he didn't do any of this stuff but was around/with the people that did. At 14, was hanging around with people/kids who committed a robbery. 15, kids brought a gun to school and fired it. Okay he was young and grew out it? Nope. "Violation of animal care" in 2014. That's a weird one. And the BB gun thing was in 2014 as well. 2015, misdemeanor battery. Apparently, a lady (21) claimed he'd punched her in the face "several" times outside of a bar. 

If not a matter of him just doing a couple stupid kids thing when he was young. It's a pattern of, at best, putting himself in bad situations. He's 21 now. So in 7 years he's had 5 incidents. What does that mean? I have no idea. He doesn't need to be a saint to be a good RB but I wouldn't put this in the "Pro" category. I'm guessing a coach and/or GM has to consider if this guy is a good locker room guy, can they trust him to stay out of trouble, is he coachable, etc. But they also have to consider him not only against other RBs in this class but also other positions. 

From a FF perspective, his character concerns really only matter for him staying on the field. Whether it's suspensions or coaches not liking him. Personally, I don't move him (or anyone) in my rankings based off of character or off field issues. 
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The "violation of animal care" he had puppies with heavy metal chains around their necks so heavy they couldn't move and it was choking them. Possibly a dog fighting thing?

There's some smoke around other incidents as well that he didn't get directly in trouble for, but involved friends of his, guns, fights and them doing this right outside his apartment at FSU. Just rumors I guess, but I know it's out there.

I don't see why you wouldn't try to take this type of stuff into account as at least a tie-breaker if it's close between him and McCaffrey, Williams or whoever after we see where they land. Especially if the NFL sees enough reason for concern that he ends up falling into round 2.  

Not only is Florida State star running back Dalvin Cook under investigation for hitting a woman outside a Tallahassee bar, but now we find out he has also been cited for mistreating puppies.

Dalvin Cook was issued a citation last season for a violation of animal care after he allegedly left three pitbull puppies chained up by the neck outside, with two two-month old puppies choking. The citation was issued July 31, 2014, by Tallahassee’s Animal Services, according to a document first obtained by Sports Illustrated.

"The dogs  were unable to move and the smaller puppies were choking," the citation said. "... Additionally, there was no shelter provided for the dogs and it had been raining the night before and it rained while [officers were] on scene."

My question is a rather obvious one: What was Dalvin Cook doing with three pitbull puppies? It seems far-fetched that they were his pets because who would treat their pets in such a way? Considering Cook's checkered past, it's certainly fair to ask whether these pit bulls were  being bred to fight (see Michael Vick)? Hopefully, Florida State coaches and adminitrators have already asked Cook this question and many others involving the mistreated pit bulls.  

It seems there are many questions to be answered about the character of Cook, who was arrested a few days ago on charges of misdemeanor battery after he was accused of punching a woman in the face outside of a Tallahassee bar in June.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/os-saturday-circus-mike-bianchi-0711-20150710-column.html

Bianchi: Why is Dalvin Cook, another FSU player accused of hitting women, even on the team?

I wrote it the other day and I'll reiterate it here: Did Florida State (along with Florida, Clemson and the dozens and dozens of other schools who recruited Cook) have any trepidation about bringing someone onto their campus who was arrested twice as a juvenile -- once in connection with a robbery and the other in connection with firing a weapon and possessing a weapon at an event on school property?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...cited-mistreating-puppies-20150713-story.html

FSU running back Dalvin Cook cited in 2014 for mistreating puppies

Don't school presidents and registrars have any oversight whatsoever into what type of players/people are being admitted into their universities?

If not, it's about time they did.
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Dan Hindery said:
The "violation of animal care" he had puppies with heavy metal chains around their necks so heavy they couldn't move and it was choking them. Possibly a dog fighting thing?

There's some smoke around other incidents as well that he didn't get directly in trouble for, but involved friends of his, guns, fights and them doing this right outside his apartment at FSU. Just rumors I guess, but I know it's out there.

I don't see why you wouldn't try to take this type of stuff into account as at least a tie-breaker if it's close between him and McCaffrey, Williams or whoever after we see where they land. Especially if the NFL sees enough reason for concern that he ends up falling into round 2.  
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*My opinion is for FF not NFL GM.

1) I don't believe that two players are ever actually in a "tie" if it's only one persons evaluation and at the same position. Watch more film and look at more measurables. If landing spot is known and a there's a "tie" in rankings, talent wins. 

2) I don't put any weight into off field concerns because there's no way to know things are going to shake out. Guys can fail because of injuries, suspensions, eating too much, other life stresses, even early retirement. On the flip side, other guys can thrive in spite of these things. Or we find out they were overblown or made up by the media, fans, "victims".

You end up going down a rabbit hole and it's a waste of time trying to find the "truth". And in the end, even if you find the truth, it might not even matter because at worst it's a 1 to 1 ratio of character issues guys that were successful to the high character guys that were successful. If we were to go name for name. 

 
I'm out of FFB for a few years now, so my opinions come only from an NFL perspective (which is dwindling too)...  I previously had Cook as #1 RB over Fournette, but have come around a bit.  I still think scheme and team matters most as to which one is more valuable, but Fournette brings something special to the table, while Cook can be had a  (NFL draft) round later with Kamara.  I think Cook is the better receiving back, but it went from by far to by a little bit.  The big guy just brings more power to a blocking back than Cook does and Fournette is a better receiver than I initially gave him credit for.  I still think Cook will have fewer injuries over his career because he doesn't try to knock every tackler out and prefers to avoid contact, but that also leads to him being a poor short yardage and goal line back.  He would be best paired with a hammer and I can see him losing several scoring opportunities every year because of this.

 
BigTex said:
Didn't Fournette skip most of the drills at the Combine?

Tex
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Yeah, he skipped agility drills to give his ankle more time to heal (straight line is mostly fine).  He should be doing them at his Pro Day April 5th.  If he doesn't, more questions will arise.

Why didn't Cook redo the 3-cone at his pro day?  His SPARQ score was horrendous at the combine, he should have looked to improve here... if he could.

 
Rhythmdoctor said:
Sofor the drills he did poorly in at the Combine, he avoided at his pro day. Hmmmm. This guy is dropping fast on my board. 
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You might want to check out how he looks in pads when other guys try to tackle him. 

 
Grahamburn said:
You might want to check out how he looks in pads when other guys try to tackle him. 
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I have. Plenty. I liked Cool a lot earlier in the process. He was my 2 after McCafftey. But his poor combine showing combined with his off field issues is making me reconsider. At this point I'll probably let someone else draft him. 

 
This guy torched, on an actual football field, some really good college defenses. I bet Clemson, Michigan, Florida, etc., and all the guys on their defenses that are about to get drafted don't put much stock in Cook's 3-cone time. 

 
Grahamburn said:
This guy torched, on an actual football field, some really good college defenses. I bet Clemson, Michigan, Florida, etc., and all the guys on their defenses that are about to get drafted don't put much stock in Cook's 3-cone time. 
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He also got contained by some good defenses, like Louisville and BC.  And he never had to play Alabama.  Pretty sure they would have stuffed him.

Cook is a very solid RB, but he's some combo of his workouts and his tape.  On tape he's a beast, in workouts he's a flop, he'll probably end up being solid, but he could end up like Jarvis Jones.  Great LB on paper from college, but his workout stats were underwhelming.  

 
NFL Media's Lance Zierlein spoke with one NFL RB coach who believes there is "no doubt" FSU's Dalvin Cook is the best prospect at his position in the draft.


The position coach believes Joe Mixon is second. It just shows how split evaluators will be on this running back class, as Leonard Fournette, Christian McCaffrey, Cook and Mixon have all been mentioned at the top spot. Cook dominated for three years, carrying FSU's offense for two of them, but has limited athleticism and produced an athletic profile that has not been selected in the first round in over 10 years.

 
 
Source: Lance Zierlein on Twitter 
Mar 29 - 11:29 AM
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I saw a lot of similarities between Cook and Freeman in their running styles. And I think it's the Florida St running back coach doing an amazing job. Here's a bit of his bio from the Fl St website:

"Jay Graham enters his fourth season at Florida State in 2016, and third as both the running backs coach and special teams coordinator. The former All-SEC and NFL running back has coached the running backs in all three of his seasons at Florida State, including current NFL players Karlos Williams (Buffalo Bills), Devonta Freeman (Atlanta Falcons) and James Wilder Jr. (Buffalo Bills), as well as 2015 All-American Dalvin Cook."

He showed up for the 2013 season. In his first season there Devonta Freeman's stats jumped from 111/660 (5.9)/8 and 10/86(8.6)/0 to 173/1016 (5.9)/14 and 22/278(12.6)/1. And 2013 was the year Karlos Williams started playing RB. In 2013 Wilder Jr also jumped up to 7.0 ypc from 5.8 the year before.

We've seen what Dalvin Cook has put up in terms of rushing numbers despite the fact that he isn't NFL elite in terms of measurables. I would say his direct comparison is Freeman. Every team runs a mix of zone and gap but for Cook if he goes to a zone team he will thrive. I would assume that since he's being projected in the first that teams are aware of this. But if he falls because of character and combine issues, some team may just see him as a value/BPA pick. 

 
BigTex said:
Didn't Fournette skip most of the drills at the Combine?

Tex
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Unfortunately a lot of top prospects elect to not run all of the drills. So there is some incomplete data on a lot of these top RB prospects over the years.

He did those drills at the combine and didn't perform well, so I thought he might try again. Instead he just tried to run a faster 40 time, which his time from the combine was already fine. He didn't answer what myself and I think others may still wonder about, why did he have such a poor 3 cone time at the combine? If he did the drill again at his pro day and showed improvement, that is something I would have liked to see. That is something that might have improved his draft stock for some teams, which he claims that he was trying to do, but he didn't run the drills that teams might actually still care about in regards to him.

 
Biabreakable said:
Unfortunately a lot of top prospects elect to not run all of the drills. So there is some incomplete data on a lot of these top RB prospects over the years.

He did those drills at the combine and didn't perform well, so I thought he might try again. Instead he just tried to run a faster 40 time, which his time from the combine was already fine. He didn't answer what myself and I think others may still wonder about, why did he have such a poor 3 cone time at the combine? If he did the drill again at his pro day and showed improvement, that is something I would have liked to see. That is something that might have improved his draft stock for some teams, which he claims that he was trying to do, but he didn't run the drills that teams might actually still care about in regards to him.
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Even though he didn't run them at his pro-day he surely would run some variation of them in private workouts. 

 
Biabreakable said:
Unfortunately a lot of top prospects elect to not run all of the drills. So there is some incomplete data on a lot of these top RB prospects over the years.

He did those drills at the combine and didn't perform well, so I thought he might try again. Instead he just tried to run a faster 40 time, which his time from the combine was already fine. He didn't answer what myself and I think others may still wonder about, why did he have such a poor 3 cone time at the combine? If he did the drill again at his pro day and showed improvement, that is something I would have liked to see. That is something that might have improved his draft stock for some teams, which he claims that he was trying to do, but he didn't run the drills that teams might actually still care about in regards to him.
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I completely understand and agree on some of the things you said yet Fournette showed up 10 lbs over weight which he claimed was all water. Who actually believes that? He only performed a few drills but why? He skipped his team bowl game to prepare for the Combine at least that's what he said. I'm not a big fan of Foreman but at least he slimmed down for the Combine  and performed well. 

I get the questions that some people have about Cook even though I don't question his capabilities as some do but I don't get why there's a lack of questions about Fournette when there should be.

Thanks for answering my questions.

Tex

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
Even though he didn't run them at his pro-day he surely would run some variation of them in private workouts. 
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I've never heard 3 cone times discussed so much. I really doubt any team is thinking twice about them.

Vertical and broad jumps are a very basic test that requires no practice or training. I don't see how he jumps higher than he did before, so what's the use in repeating them? He's a below average athlete whether people want to believe it or not.

 
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Tape vs measurables- tape shows fumbling every 63 carries, but no tape on his off field issues. Measurables outside of 40 time are disappointing, maybe his lack of lateral explosiveness is due to his weak knees. When I look at all of this cumulatively between stupid decisions off the field, knee issues, apparently straight line speed but no lateral explosiveness, it's just too much for me to be on this guys bandwagon. 

 
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