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RB Dalvin Cook, DAL (3 Viewers)

Agree with almost everything else @Biabreakable said though - and I agree he's a really good looking prospect with a high ceiling,  I just dont want to overlook his deficiencies and over draft him. 
It is splitting hairs a bit, but Dalvin Cook says he sees himself as similar to a young Jamal Charles, and Cook definitely is not as fast as young Jamal Charles. You will see Cook get caught from behind on long distance runs at times, and as mentioned in post linked by Faust above, Cook is realizing that everyone on the Vikings defense is fast, he is adjusting to a higher level of defensive play, as all rookies need to do. He may need to change some of his decision making process at times, plays that he felt confident in executing at the college level may require different tactics at the pro level.

I think Cook demonstrates good pad level and functional forward lean when he wants to, you just don't perhaps see this as often, because he is trying to create more explosive plays against a lower level of competition. He will need to adapt and NFL corners are very very good athletes. As Pete Berich points out, Cook is more powerful runner than some give him credit for. I have seen examples of him being engaged by 3 and 4 defenders where he still gains extra yardage because of good pad level for the most part, defenders all over him.

As far as the offense compared to the Falcons I don't have much disagreement there. I do think Sam Bradford is generally under rated and that the schedule doesn't look too bad either, but the Vikings not likely to be as good as the 2016 Falcons who scored the most TD last year. That said as far as TDs go, the Falcons only scored 2 more TD than the Vikings did in 2015. TD are hard to predict, the Falcons had a favorable schedule that year too but was only 23rd in offensive TD that year, a lot of turnovers and other things that contributed to that.. I think the Falcons getting Mack at center really helped their offensive line last year and they were missing WRs (White declined) in 2015 that they were able to improve in 2016 as far as factors that caused them to score more than the year before. Freeman benefited from being the second best receiving option in 2015 which changed in 2016 as they had more options.

I do expect some time share and Murray being used as a goal line RB seems pretty likely as well. I expect Cook to be a better player in 2018 than 2017. To me this mostly hinges on how much the Vikings can trust him in pass protection, as far as how much of the RB pie he will earn. I do think it is possible that Cook is the second or third best receiving option the Vikings have on the team. If they use him as a receiver a lot then his rookie season may be more productive than I am currently thinking.

I am pretty comfortable predicting Cook will be better than Freeman as a rookie. Thats not hard. Not sure what his TD upside is for his career, hard to predict that. Not likely the number one scoring offense though.

As a talent I think Cook is on a higher level than Freeman.

 
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I've sent Dr. Bir  an email about getting the data from her evaluations.

We'll see what she says I will let you guys know.

I'd like to compare the data relevant to college and NFL performance.

Tex
The data is likely proprietary. But if you could get access to say, 5 years of data for a large cross section of players? That would be a start for some independent analysis. Likely a good way for them to promote their data if people are using it for articles and independent analysis. The more people are talking about it, the more value it should have I would think.

Curious to hear what you find out. I am not an ESPN subscriber, so if the data is available somewhere through their website I wouldn't know. That is something they likely could market to fantasy players however and maybe increase their subscriptions if they made this available through one.

 
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@bostonfred

His 40 is virtually the same as Tomlinson, Elliot and Gordon (on your list) and way better than Fosters. And foster was great at getting to and finding the edge. 

Not sure why a sub-4.5 forty should concern anyone when the tape shows speed and quickness. 

 
@bostonfred

His 40 is virtually the same as Tomlinson, Elliot and Gordon (on your list) and way better than Fosters. And foster was great at getting to and finding the edge. 

Not sure why a sub-4.5 forty should concern anyone when the tape shows speed and quickness. 
Seriously.  I don't get it.  Football players play in pads on football fields with blockers in front of them and guys chasing them down.  

Football is not played in spandex shorts, running 40 yards straight ahead with no one in front of you or chasing after you.... a time that's considered "slower" shouldn't be such a huge deal.  Especially when we're talking about tenths of a second here.  

 
Seriously.  I don't get it.  Football players play in pads on football fields with blockers in front of them and guys chasing them down.  

Football is not played in spandex shorts, running 40 yards straight ahead with no one in front of you or chasing after you.... a time that's considered "slower" shouldn't be such a huge deal.  Especially when we're talking about tenths of a second here.  
Because those tenths of a second are the difference when you're talking above competing against other super athletes. That speed difference might not matter in the 6 yards but after that it does. The angles that defenders have to take changes. A 4.5 guy might not make it to the sideline against the safety and have to take a head on collusion. A 4.4 guy pick up an extra 5-10 yards on a run and just get pushed out of bounds. A 4.3 guy but be able to completely get by the safety and get an extra 20+ yards. 

People also make a big deal how "useless the underwear Olympics" are but how much different do you think game pants are than the "spandex" shorts they run are? It's not like players are running around in a knights armour out there. 

I'm not saying that the 40 is a perfect measure of a players on field speed (or obviously his entire projection as a player), and I would agree that at times the 40 is over emphasized but to completely write off the 40 is a disservice to an evaluation. 

 
Because those tenths of a second are the difference when you're talking above competing against other super athletes. That speed difference might not matter in the 6 yards but after that it does. The angles that defenders have to take changes. A 4.5 guy might not make it to the sideline against the safety and have to take a head on collusion. A 4.4 guy pick up an extra 5-10 yards on a run and just get pushed out of bounds. A 4.3 guy but be able to completely get by the safety and get an extra 20+ yards. 

People also make a big deal how "useless the underwear Olympics" are but how much different do you think game pants are than the "spandex" shorts they run are? It's not like players are running around in a knights armour out there. 

I'm not saying that the 40 is a perfect measure of a players on field speed (or obviously his entire projection as a player), and I would agree that at times the 40 is over emphasized but to completely write off the 40 is a disservice to an evaluation. 
Re:  bold  .... Not trying to be snarky but do you have any proof of this?  

This post seems to prove that even the "slower" RBs can be very effective runners.

I dunno.

 
Redraft question: will Cook win this job outright or share carries?
For this season, and likely this season only, he will share with Murray and McKinnon. I expect he will be starting and getting most of the touches by midseason, but Murray and McKinnon should get enough to hold his fantasy value down this season. If Murray were to get hurt and miss games, I expect Cook would blow up, but hard to count on that.

 
cloppbeast said:
Redraft question: will Cook win this job outright or share carries?
Murray is coming off of ankle surgery and may miss a good part of training camp.  I see Cook being the starter if he performs well in the pre season.

 
cloppbeast said:
Redraft question: will Cook win this job outright or share carries?
I think Murray will get a lot of pass protection assignments and possibly short yardage (goal line) as well. These are things that could limit some of Cooks opportunities related to fantasy points.

He is too talented to keep off the field though and I think just a matter of time before Cook is getting the majority of the offensive snaps.

He is winning Zimmer over already. That would be another reason to have some pause about Cooks opportunity as a rookie. Zimmer has been slow to trust rookie players.

 
I think he's a waste of a pick at his adp for redraft
Depends on the size/roster of the league.  When I draft a rookie RB, I do it for weeks 9-16 and pretty much allocate that draft pick as a designated flier.  Pretty easy to do in 12 man or smaller leagues, you just can't spend a bunch of them early.  It's easy enough to get Forte or West late and take the 8-11 points per week they will get you until the rookie gets his sea legs under him.  I prefer guys that start slow, because they are a lot less likely to hit a wall.  They have fresh legs and can be that spark plug that leads a playoff charge.  DJ, Jordan Howard, Jamal Charles' rookie year - all guys

 
As rookie RBs are going, he's got the most reasonable ADP
That an according to the "writing on the wall" (in pencil of course) he should be the one getting the most on his team. Mixon and CM will share more than Cook and Fournette will get a ton but as we say, his "perceived" value is much much higher. 

 
I saw on Sports Science that Cook can scratch his back with his left foot.

That agility is the best they've ever tested.

 
I saw on Sports Science that Cook can scratch his back with his left foot.

That agility is the best they've ever tested.
A few days late on your trolling but you are probably the same person who values a sprint in underwear as a great scientific football test.

People who dont understand technology typically dont like it or try to discredit it. 

 
A few days late on your trolling but you are probably the same person who values a sprint in underwear as a great scientific football test.

People who dont understand technology typically dont like it or try to discredit it. 
:lmao:

 
A few days late on your trolling but you are probably the same person who values a sprint in underwear as a great scientific football test.

People who dont understand technology typically dont like it or try to discredit it. 
wow

 
Mavis puts the hot sauce on every post.
Caliente! 

Although, why is he wowing me responding to a troll who makes a post a few days later than that topic was discussed in a different thread, then responded with a emoji? Seems the obvious trolling should wow him more, instead he likes the post.  :lol:  

 
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Caliente! 

Although, why is he wowing me responding to a troll who makes a post a few days later than that topic was discussed in a different thread, then responded with a emoji? Seems the obvious trolling should wow him more, instead he likes the post.  :lol:  
Because it was an obvious joke, not trolling. 

 
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Caliente! 

Although, why is he wowing me responding to a troll who makes a post a few days later than that topic was discussed in a different thread, then responded with a emoji? Seems the obvious trolling should wow him more, instead he likes the post.  :lol:  
You need a hot sauce avatar. Go all in on this. 

 
I think he's a waste of a pick at his adp for redraft


Depends on the size/roster of the league.  When I draft a rookie RB, I do it for weeks 9-16 and pretty much allocate that draft pick as a designated flier.  Pretty easy to do in 12 man or smaller leagues, you just can't spend a bunch of them early.  It's easy enough to get Forte or West late and take the 8-11 points per week they will get you until the rookie gets his sea legs under him.  I prefer guys that start slow, because they are a lot less likely to hit a wall.  They have fresh legs and can be that spark plug that leads a playoff charge.  DJ, Jordan Howard, Jamal Charles' rookie year - all guys
I did an early redraft which drafted late May where Cook went 6.12 in a 12 team PPR (20 roster spots) where we are required to start two and can flex a third RB.  If you think Cook is going to be the guy(I don't), that is actually pretty good imo.  I would imagine Cook's ADP has crept up since then as many were down on him shortly after the draft.  I drafted four rookies to round out my backfield to go along with Demarco Murray (3.4) and Abdullah (4.9).  The rookie went like so:

Fournette - 2.9

McCaffrey - 2.11

Mixon - 3.5

Cook - 6.12

Perine - 7.5

Hunt - 8.4

Kamara 9.4

Joe Williams - 10.9

Mack - 12.3

Jamaal Williams - 13.2

Foreman - 14.9

McNichols - 15.7

Conner - 17.7

Gallman - 17.9

A. Jones - 18.1

Hood - 20.01

 
I did an early redraft which drafted late May where Cook went 6.12 in a 12 team PPR (20 roster spots) where we are required to start two and can flex a third RB.  If you think Cook is going to be the guy(I don't), that is actually pretty good imo.  I would imagine Cook's ADP has crept up since then as many were down on him shortly after the draft.  I drafted four rookies to round out my backfield to go along with Demarco Murray (3.4) and Abdullah (4.9).  The rookie went like so:

Fournette - 2.9

McCaffrey - 2.11

Mixon - 3.5

Cook - 6.12

Perine - 7.5

Hunt - 8.4

Kamara 9.4

Joe Williams - 10.9

Mack - 12.3

Jamaal Williams - 13.2

Foreman - 14.9

McNichols - 15.7

Conner - 17.7

Gallman - 17.9

A. Jones - 18.1

Hood - 20.01
You got Demarco Murray in the 3rd round or was that some kind of keeper?

 
You got Demarco Murray in the 3rd round or was that some kind of keeper?
No keepers, just a plain $100 PPR redraft league.  We draft in late May, then no transactions until after week 1.  Derrick Henry is looming, so Murray's a hard sell in spite of the production.

 
No keepers, just a plain $100 PPR redraft league.  We draft in late May, then no transactions until after week 1.  Derrick Henry is looming, so Murray's a hard sell in spite of the production.
That is really late for a 29 year old RB who has been a top 10 fantasy RB for 3 of the last 4 years. 

 
That is really late for a 29 year old RB who has been a top 10 fantasy RB for 3 of the last 4 years. 
I've done only 6 redrafts so far this year. I don't recall the exact dates but I did one done before free agency/NFL draft and another one done prior to the NFL draft so these were very early and in those two early drafts Murray went 3.4 and 2.12. In the following 4 drafts I've done, including two this past week, he's gone as high as 12 and I think the lowest was 18.

6 is not a big sample size but seems like he is someone that people cooled on a bit early this off-season that have since warmed back up to.

 
I know he's better then Murray or mkinnon.  I just keep having visions of that awful oline
That is a missnomer....they were starting people off the streets at tackle...injuries were awful...they signed riley rieff from det...reimers...drafted a solid center....better health....it won't be as bad

 
PFF has their oline ranked 14th headed into the season
That is quite a jump. I don't think I am ready to just assume they have gone from a putrid to above average. The line is better, but we will see how much better. He was supposedly a poor pass blocker so I worry McKinnon might get some 3rd down work. He doesn't look like a GL back and so Murray makes a lot more sense in that role. Also, the Vikings offense under Sam Bradford isn't very exciting. Toss in his fumbling issues and I am a bit worried about just how many touches he gets and what value those touches have. 

 
Ilov80s said:
fruity pebbles said:
PFF has their oline ranked 14th headed into the season
That is quite a jump. I don't think I am ready to just assume they have gone from a putrid to above average. The line is better, but we will see how much better.
The Vikings starters in week 1 last season were LT Kalil, LG Boone, C Berger, RG Fusco, RT Andre Smith. That group combined to miss 32 games, including 26 games by the 2 tackles.

They signed LT Reiff and RT Remmers in free agency and drafted Elflein, last year's Rimington trophy winner as the best C in college football. Elflein should start at C immediately, which seems to make it likely that Berger will move to RG. Berger and Boone were both good last year, and the other 3 spots should all be upgraded.

Is this enough to jump from 29 to 14 in the rankings? Who can say with such precision. But it certainly seems like it is enough for significant improvement as long as they don't suffer multiple major injuries again.

 
Ilov80s said:
That is quite a jump. I don't think I am ready to just assume they have gone from a putrid to above average. The line is better, but we will see how much better. He was supposedly a poor pass blocker so I worry McKinnon might get some 3rd down work. He doesn't look like a GL back and so Murray makes a lot more sense in that role. Also, the Vikings offense under Sam Bradford isn't very exciting. Toss in his fumbling issues and I am a bit worried about just how many touches he gets and what value those touches have. 
I think ur still butt hurt over cook destroying Harbaugh in the orange bowl

 

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