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RB Dalvin Cook, DAL (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Warhogs
Footballguy
They signed Murray before the draft because they had nothing. Now, Murray has been decent but the correct statement would be they drafted Cook with their first pick even though they had just signed Murray to a pretty large contract.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
McCoy had average speed, atrocious burst but outstanding quickness. That very much sums up his game. McCoy is fast, but he isn't a burner. He is not explosive at all, isn't pushing piles or trucking guys. However, he is quick as a cat and evades defenders with ease.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Agree. Despite my constant picking on him in this thread, I really have taken him a lot in mocks. I think that will stop once people see him in preseason.
az_prof
Footballguy
I would not trade Cook for McCaffrey but I am just one person. I like him better as a back and I like his situation better too
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Well, aside from situation (which counts for a lot, granted) I think Fournette is clearly the superior back. But I've been swayed to Cook over McCafrey on both talent and situation.Cook has always been #1 in my book ahead of them all.
Tex
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
It's ok, everyone has their guy for different reasons that's why we play this game.
Tex
Tau837
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
When are people seeing him go in redraft at this point?
hoffman0001
Footballguy
I had him in one league since he was drafted, and I sold high this summer. He was an ok player before last year but not a superstar. Sold high and I doubt I'll regret it.
hoffman0001
Footballguy
amnesiac
beer is good
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
Weebs210
Footballguy
hoffman0001
Footballguy
Borden
Footballguy
MFL10s he's going in the 4th.
He's going to end up late second, early third by August though. I was listening to Move the Sticks and they said he's all people are talking about there. And how he's going to be the focal point of the offense. If his hype is this high already, it's going to be crazy by the end of the preseason.
Who are you drafting ahead of him? Fournette, Corey Davis, Mixon, McCaffrey...then..?
spider321
Footballguy
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
amnesiac
beer is good
I have a very basic rule that I've always tried to follow, only draft RB's from good teams with at least a competent QB. Having said that I'm at the point where I'd draft BOTH Cooks and Mccaffrey over the likes of Gurley, Fournette, Jordan Howard, and Crowell. It will be interesting to see how high their ADP's continue to climb.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Maybe...and of the guys I've listed he's easily the only one I'd consider in that 2nd round range. Keep in mind though, in ppr (which all my leagues are), he's not a pass catching back.
Another thing to keep an eye on is how Glennon looks in the preseason. If he offers hope of competency from the QB position, it would obviously increase Howard's chance to succeed. However as it stands as of today...I'm passing on him with no hesitation.
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Weebs210
Footballguy
Offers next to nothing in the passing game...if his team falls behind (which is likely given the team), game script is really going to hurt him.
Just my take. If you like him go for it but he's pretty much off my list.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
As a rookie Howard had 50 targets 29 receptions 298 yards 1 TD.
58% catch rate is below the average of about 73% for RBs.
10.3 yards per reception is good but 5.96 yards per target is also below average.
I think its reasonable to expect that Howard might improve on his catch rate following his rookie season.
Dalvin Cook likely a better receiver than Howard though. The Vikings are lining up Cook and McKinnon in the slot on some plays.
I think it is a hard decision between the two. I would likely lean Cook as well for total combined yards.
Smart to go with the proven NFL player as well though.
58% catch rate is below the average of about 73% for RBs.
10.3 yards per reception is good but 5.96 yards per target is also below average.
I think its reasonable to expect that Howard might improve on his catch rate following his rookie season.
Dalvin Cook likely a better receiver than Howard though. The Vikings are lining up Cook and McKinnon in the slot on some plays.
I think it is a hard decision between the two. I would likely lean Cook as well for total combined yards.
Smart to go with the proven NFL player as well though.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Howard performed last year with Brian Hoyer and Matt Barkley playing QB - do you expect Glennon to be worse?
Warhogs
Footballguy
29 catches isn't too bad for a rookie RB. He could easily grow into 40-45 catches this season. It's not like he had single digit receptions so I wouldn't say that he can't be used as a pass catcher.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree. The only thing questionable about his production as a receiver was the below average catch rate.
Jeremy Langford as a rookie had even worse catch rate than Howard. Not unusual for a rookie to have some inconsistency there and improve on it in their second season.
The narrative about Howard not being a receiving RB seems a bit stuck in the past from my perspective.
Borden
Footballguy
In this Cook vs Howard comparison, you can have both based on current ADP.
Just one vs the other, I would take Howard based on the fact that he has already proven he can be very productive. Worrying about game script seems unnecessary since we already saw what he did on a 3 and 13 team last year. Cook may have more upside due to his receiving abilities but might also give up carries (especially GL carries) to Murray. Also, he is a huge unknown. If the Vikings plan to feature and move around Cook he's going to have to learn (and properly execute) a larger portion of the play book.
Howard is likely to finish as a mid to low RB1 hoping the Cook can come out and exceed that seems like an unnecessary risk to take on a rookie, if given the choice between the two.
Just one vs the other, I would take Howard based on the fact that he has already proven he can be very productive. Worrying about game script seems unnecessary since we already saw what he did on a 3 and 13 team last year. Cook may have more upside due to his receiving abilities but might also give up carries (especially GL carries) to Murray. Also, he is a huge unknown. If the Vikings plan to feature and move around Cook he's going to have to learn (and properly execute) a larger portion of the play book.
Howard is likely to finish as a mid to low RB1 hoping the Cook can come out and exceed that seems like an unnecessary risk to take on a rookie, if given the choice between the two.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree with you.Borden said:
The ADPs are not the same so you could end up drafting both if you wanted to. Howard is consistently going quite a bit higher than Cook has been going (although Cook's ADP has been climbing recently).
I also agree that worrying about game script with Howard doesn't make much sense given how well he performed for a losing team last year. I think the narrative that he isn't a receiving RB is carried over from last year and how Howard performed debunks that reasoning, yet people (who should maybe know better) continue to repeat this same perspective about Howard not being a good receiving RB anyways. It's like 2016 didn't happen or something for them.
The Vikings are building the offense around Cook and he is executing it. So that isn't a question for me so much anymore. We still need to see how the offense functions in games, but Cook has been very involved with the offense as a receiver already in practice. I worry less about time share affecting Cook with each passing day.
It is interesting to me though as especially in a dynasty format I lean towards Cook being the better player, although I recognize that Howard has already proven himself to be very good. It definitely makes sense to go with the known player (Howard) over the unknown player (Cook) and that is reflected in the difference between their ADP right now. That is the safe path, the almost no brainer type of decision and more times than not, it is the correct one.
That said I actually know more about Cook at this point than I do Howard, even though Howard has a season in the NFL. I just like Cook that much.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Extremely dubious.
If the Vikings build an offense around Cook, it will be the first time a team has done so with a rookie second round running back.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
They have shifted to zone blocking scheme because of Cook.
Nothing dubious about it when it is already happening.
eta - what is doubtful is your claim that no other team in the history of the NFL has changed their offense to accommodate a rookie RB. In fact that is obviously not true.
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Ok. One last time as I'm tired of your posts getting reported (justifiably) every day. If you have an opinion on a player, tell us what you think and why. Let that be 95% of your posts. If you disagree with another poster, say you disagree and explain in lots of detail why. But this kind of constant trolling in everyone's face just criticizing THEM won't fly.
I realize we're WAY more tame there than normal message boards. It's also why I think we're better.
If that's too much to ask of you, I totally get it. Zero hard feelings. There are TONS of boards out there where you'll fit. But constantly posting the way you do will not fit here.
And I'm sorry to be heavy handed on this but understand this is not a discussion. You either dial it back or you won't be here.
hoffman0001
Footballguy
This was actually a miss-post. Sorry. I had multiple windows open, and it was a comment that was intended for another thread. Sorry about that.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Fan-boys will say anything, so I take everything with a grain of salt.
You're claiming the Vikings are tailoring this offense for a second round pick. Sounds dubious. You sound like a salesman.
The coach seems genuinely disappointed that Murray isn't out there.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
They're tailoring it for the talent at hand. That's just good coaching. He may be a 2nd rounder but he's one they traded up for...after not having a 1st round pick.
steelers1080
Footballguy
The Steelers' offense revolves around Le'veon when he's healthy. Not quite the same as building an offense around him since Ben is the centerpiece, but it definitely flows through him. The second half of last season he got a ridiculous amount of touches.
Also went 5th this past weekend in our dynasty. Thought he was going to go 4th. Allowed me to get OJ Howard at 6. With Winston at QB, Howard is gonna dominate.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
'Tailoring for talent at hand', and 'building the offense around Cook', these are two different statements.
A lot of you bought this guy in dynasty, so there's some confirmation bias/wishful thinking going on. But some of us are re-drafters. Cook looks like the favorite as the starter; at the same time there's a lot of hyperbole in this thread. I could be wrong, but I feel like Murray will have a role in this offense.
Harvey Ryan
Footballguy
I understand the risks with this guy, however, of all the rookie RB's in my opinion, he has the highest upside. He could easily be the next Bishop Sankey, but for some reason I keep getting the feeling he is more like the next Edgerin James. He has outstanding vision, good hands (minus some concentration issues), and plays VERY fast in pads. He is also very comfortable in the zone blocking system, which for me is the best scheme and one of the main things I look for when trying to find RBs.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
You can't back up you claim with facts. I get it. So now shifting to talking about me,,,
I am not trying to sell anything. Just sharing my perspective about a team I follow more closely than anyone else.
BTW see LeVeon Bell as far as your claim that teams don't change their scheme to fit a 2nd round RB.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Well, I think you're just arguing semantics and that's not normally too productive.
Anyway, people seem to state stuff like the bolded like it's a bad thing.
Murray's role, if he has one, is going to be a complimentary one. Probably in short yardage situations. It's been my experience that if your starter takes a high number of carries, his end of year totals look high, but his effectiveness wears down as the season progresses - and is often at low ebb come fantasy playoff time. In short, I would HOPE Murray and McKinnon play a role.
