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RB Derrick Henry, BAL (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
Isn't Derrick Henry a dart throw himself? Perhaps even a drunk dart throw given that we know no team will ever use him on 3rd down. Who says a RB has to be taken with a 2nd? A very good WR, or at least one with as much or more potential than Henry, could be available in the 2nd. And I've already named a few RBs with more potential than Henry could be there in the 2nd.
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Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
How exactly do you know this? And it was you that said you would be happy with taking a RB in the 2nd over Henry.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I can only go with what my eyes see. I see him trotting off the field on third down, he weighs 250 lbs and doesn't seem to be a guy you want in there on passing downs. As for your last sentence, I believe there will be a couple RBs that fall into the 2nd that I would take over Henry, but if there isn't, this is a deep WR draft and perhaps I would like one over Henry in the 2nd. Hope that clears that up for you.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
there are a number of RBs I would take round 2 over Henry. This class deserves more credit. it lacks the super star at the top but is no worse across the "meat" of the group as last year
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Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
These guys that you would take in round 2, will be gone in round 1. Do you guys see 10 WRs going in round 1?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I could see seven or eight WRs go in the first rd of dynasty drafts and three, possibly four RBs. That doesn’t even consider a QB or TE needy team helping out.
He's really not. The Titans made that a point once DeMarco was smoking hot. Henry only expected to be the backup once really. No one expected DeMarco to be so good. The Titans RB coach was thus given the luxury of improving Henry's all-around game. That summer was blitz pickup like every rookie RB, but once the season got underway or maybe late into preseason, (whenever they truly knew DeMarco was a steal of a trade) it became his work in the passing game that they'd work on.JohnnyU said:
He's probably lined up at WR 100 plays by now (3 years? guess?). Mularkey used to do that a lot. It happens once in a while this year. It supposedly gives Marcus an easy read and some comfort when the RB shifts there. In all fairness, Henry hasn't caught many passes at the WR spot and is probably often the last option in Marcus' looks but as far as RBs go, the big fella has run a decent amount of routes.
As a rookie, Fowler would joke that he was a better receiver than Amani Cooper and had more receiving TDs his senior year or a bigger TD or...I forget what it was. Anywho, Fowler had excellent hands for a FB and two preseasons the Titans used him in the slot pretty often. When that worked so well, they used other backs in the slot including Henry and Andrews. Murray was amazing that year and one upped everybody. Kendall was hurt to start the season and Murray would go from RB on 1st and 2nd to slot WR on 3rd. He led the Titans in receiving for the first 3 or 4 weeks, besides rushing. When Kendall returned, despite his struggles, they almost never used the backs in the slot. It was infuriating considering how well Murray did to start the year and how well all the backs looked in the summer.
Andrews would miss a block and get Mariota injured. (I still don't think the LG and LT should double a DE while the RB is to pickup the DT but...) Andrews would either not play again or barely at all and it was like this super serious message not to get the golden boy hurt. Henry and Fowler put a ton of time in working on pass blocking blitz pickup stuff. Henry had to close that season pretending he was a third down back.
Year two, Murray got a ridiculous amount of time off and Henry was essentially the lead back for like 80-90% of the offseason. We all saw a complete back and awesome work by the RB coach. It was expected he would get the rock over Murray at some point that year. He didn't really, despite rushing for more yards than Murray and leading the NFL in fourth quarter rushing. Usually when the backup runs for more, it's a given.
This year he has had more than Lewis a few times. I'd say they use Lewis like Henry on first and second and then don't know what to do when Lewis needs a breather so they throw Henry out there. It's been so awfully planned. In preseason, it wasn't this. They had signed four speedy lil buggers and had this dynamic offense which incorporated two backs. Henry was the sled dog type, Lewis was the pass catching third down type, and the speedy UDFAs were to catch it and fly up the sideline or catch it in the slot and fly diagonally which would almost be a slant by the time they were done running. They got happy with Lewis' running ability and used him as a more complete back, cut all the UDFAs despite the praise, and...it's been awful.
Us Titans fans spend every year wishing they'd do the same stuff they did every preseason. It's always minimally creative and then when the season comes around everything is overthought and "too cute" and just all messed up.
Anywho, Henry has way more experience in the passing game than people let on
Interseptopus
Footballguy
8Jello_Biafra said:
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Football Jones
Footballguy
Henry has been an enigma. Murray was better than anticipated & Mularkey went with the vet, but all it takes to be high on Henry is to watch him. The raw talent is there as he showed many times in his first couple of seasons.
2018 has been a joke. Lewis can't hold Henry's jock as a feature back. Henry is one of those RBs who gets better as the game wears on, but it doesn't look like Vrabel is going to give him a legit chance to be a feature back.
Again, acquiring Henry is a long-term play. Still young, obviously still talented, & like I said, he WILL be somewhere else in 2020 (at the latest). Very likely as a feature back.
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That's a fair point but he outrushed Murray and is close to Lewis despite a ton of one yard plunges. Conversely, have you thought a backup that outrushes a starter should sit?
Interseptopus
Footballguy
You keep saying raw talent is there. At what point is talent no longer raw? How many years until we should give up on a player for not learning to perfect their raw talent? Christine Michael had a lot of raw talent, and a cult following to boot. Henry seems down that same path. People obsessed with combine stats / physical measurables and missing what he's doing (or not doing) on the field.
Murray was better than expected? That's a real weird thing to say. The year before he came to TEN he rushed for 1845 yards, 13 TDs, caught 57 passes for 416 yards. "Better than expected" is something the Tampa Bay Buccaneers thought weeks 1-3 with Fitzpatrick. It's not something you think about a RB who was in the MVP discussion the year before.
I will agree that 2018 has been an odd year for the Titans. I thought they would have been much better than they are now. I was one of the few who thought Lewis was the better back to own in this offense, but I didn't foresee Henry being given the ultimate cold shoulder in this offensive game plan. I agree that Henry is a long play, but I am not as optimistic about his long term outlook. If TEN really had such a stud on their hands, why keep him on the bench? It's not like the Titans are blowing it up offensively. Mariota has been hurt. What better way to take some pressure off of him than giving the ball to a bruiser like Henry?
I look at him as a lotto RB at this point. He might latch on somewhere in 2020, but even so- the rookie RB class is going to be exceptional. At that point Henry might be looking at a complimentary role at best.
Football Jones
Footballguy
You’re trying to write the story to fit your ending. Murray had a down year in 2015 after his big season with the Cowboys & many people thought Henry was drafted to be the feature back. Murray rebounded a bit in 2016 (Henry’s rookie season) & Mularkey stubbornly stuck with Murray for the most part throughout his tenure.
Plus, you’re on record as saying you would trade a 2nd in ‘19 for Henry. Right? Make up your mind, LOL. Take a dump or get off the pot.
I believe in the raw talent & Henry is still young. My advice is to give the 2nd in a down class for Henry, then sit on him. It should be a pretty easy win if you have the patience to wait it out.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
Fool me twice.....shame on me. Perhaps a third coaching staff will finally get some value out of Henry.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
Edited because I thought you wrote 2019 was going to be exceptional.
Hard to say this far out how strong the 2020 class will be, but teams realize there’s a lot to be said for a guy like Henry, who has shown he can play in the NFL.
That’s why teams go out & sign young vets to their second contract. Rookies bust all the time.
There’s more than a good chance Henry lands a feature job in 2020 if not in the upcoming offseason via trade.
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Henry has been garbage, and there's no such thing as backs who "get better as the game goes on". It's just a comforting phrase uttered by people desperate to see a guy get more work when he doesn't deserve it.
Angry spiders
Footballguy
He should be playing linebacker
Football Jones
Footballguy
If Henry has been garbage, Lewis needs to retire. Their offense is a joke. They’re playing short-handed at QB which is one problem, but let’s just say Vrabel isn’t a rocket scientist & leave it at that.
BTW, of course there’s such a thing as getting better as the game wears on. WhoTF are you kidding? It’s why Henry is one of the better 4th quarter RBs in the league. Enough with the nonsense, LOL.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I’m hearing a lot of talk that Henry can be had for a late 2nd in 2019. If that’s truly the case, people need to jump on that like flies on ####.
ANY 2nd in the 2019 class would be a nice deal, but you need patience to wait until 2020 (at the latest) for it to pay off. It’s not a trade for people who like an immediate return, but if you have the patience to wait it out, there’s an excellent chance you’ll be rewarded.
Henry might be the best buy-low in all of FF right now (talking dynasty, of course). The clincher is the mediocrity of the 2019 class & the liklehood that 2nd round pick you moved won’t amount to anything, anyway.
ANY 2nd in the 2019 class would be a nice deal, but you need patience to wait until 2020 (at the latest) for it to pay off. It’s not a trade for people who like an immediate return, but if you have the patience to wait it out, there’s an excellent chance you’ll be rewarded.
Henry might be the best buy-low in all of FF right now (talking dynasty, of course). The clincher is the mediocrity of the 2019 class & the liklehood that 2nd round pick you moved won’t amount to anything, anyway.
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Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
I had this exact thought a few weeks ago when Haley tried to justify using Hyde over Chubb
fightingillini
Footballguy
I can only shake my head. For it to pay off, you needFootball Jones said:
1) Henry to get out of TEN
2) go to a team that WANTS him to be a featured back
3) Henry needs to actually show that talent and produce on a consistent basis.
I will take my chances with draft pick, thank you.
If TEN really thought Henry was going to be the "guy", why did they fork out $20 million for Dion Lewis? TEN could have spent much less for a COP guy....and address other needs. I think that's all you need to know regarding what TEN thinks of Henry.
My conclusion after watching Henry is that.....he's an OK complimentary RB, as part of an RBBC. He's quick for a big guy, is pretty good in space, but he doesn't run that tough inside and seems to lack vision. Last night, I saw a play were he ran inside and HOU literally stuffed him for no gain....like Henry ran into a wall. At 250 pounds, I would expect Henry to at least bull over a defender or at least squeeze between two tacklers and get a couple of extra yards. Kind of what you see with LaGarrette Blount, who moves the pile.
Football Jones
Footballguy
It really amazes me how many people have given up on Henry. All you need to know to still be high on Henry is to check out what he’s done as a feature back (when Murray missed time) or when he's been given at least 20 touches. Henry has been outstanding when given the opportunity (including the playoffs).
You can have your 2nd round pick & I’ll take Henry. Henry is worth a random 2nd in ANY class, especially one that looks like 2019.
It’s really not even close. People have either given up on Henry WAY too early or simply don’t have the patience to wait on what will surely be a much better situation. Henry hasn’t lost anything from his first two seasons where he showed so much potential. People in here act like he’s 30 years old & declining, LOL.
It’s a REALLY strange take, especially since Henry has already produced in games where he was given the chance to be a feature back. Puzzling to say the least.
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ericttspikes
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I would probably pay a second for Henry, and there's a lot I like about him, but you're discounting the fact that two different staffs have now had him take a backseat to another RB despite a second round investment in him. You're also exaggerating what he's done as a feature back based on one huge playoff game against a terrible defense where he broke off a few big runs (which is something to like about him - his size/speed combo). Including that playoff game, he's had three games in three seasons where he has exceeded 100 yards.
He's also had two 18 carry games where he didn't even break 60 yards. He has a career ypc of 4.13 which isn't overly impressive and has only scored 14 TDs in 42 regular season games and has a whopping 34 receptions in three seasons. So far he has not been a legit fantasy option and if you start him, you are very likely to regret it.
Is it possible in 2020 (another full season away) he ends up on another team in a starting role? Sure, of course it is. It's also possible he ends up in a backup/CoP role that he's been in every season of his career thus far. It's not as clear cut as you're making it out to be.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
Bottom line, he's had 5 or 6 games that would be defined as a feature back & he's done very well. Only one dud out of those games & that's when they were outclassed against the Pats in the playoffs. And it was done in a mediocre offense. There's no other way to spin it.
I can choose how clear cut I think it is. It's clear cut enough for me that Henry kills a 2nd round pick based on his talent & the likleyhood of him getting a feature back job.
Like I said, it's really not close.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
In fact, the Henry naysayers have one of the most bizzare takes I've ever seen. This cat has shown REAL talent his first two seasons & when the situation turns ugly, they're ready to give up & take a crapshoot-type pick with a 2nd in 2019.
Then you've got some guys straddling the fence & talking out both sides of their mouth, LOL. You either like him for a 2nd in 2019 or you don't.
It's a very easy call, IMO.
Then you've got some guys straddling the fence & talking out both sides of their mouth, LOL. You either like him for a 2nd in 2019 or you don't.
It's a very easy call, IMO.
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Football Jones
Footballguy
Not too interested in debating it further. Let's see how he finishes & go from there.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Titans start featuring Henry, but Vrabel seems pretty stubborn. Regardless, Lewis isn't getting it done as their starter & you would think they've GOT to do something different.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the Titans start featuring Henry, but Vrabel seems pretty stubborn. Regardless, Lewis isn't getting it done as their starter & you would think they've GOT to do something different.
shadrap
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
You lack the ability to truly process what you read and then resort to childishness, I see. Nevermind trying to have a real discussion. Carry on.
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grateful zed
Footballguy
just traded my late dyno 2nd rounder, 2.22+ for henry. (in win now mode)
hoping he gets traded into a more productive situation that proves quicker and better than whatever wr i could draft next year.
hoping he gets traded into a more productive situation that proves quicker and better than whatever wr i could draft next year.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Childish? I responded to your post eloquently. I simply gave you my opinion. You might want to read it again (& actually comprehend it).
Also, the two 18-carry games you referred to were this season. You also mentioned his over 4 YPC average in his career like it was terrible. You failed to acknowledge the promise Henry showed in his first 2 seasons & what he did when he was given a feature back load. We all know this season has been a train wreck & you slanted your reply to include this year when you knew that wasn't the focus of my argument. I didn't have much of a problem with your take which is why I didn't address it (& the fact this discussion has pretty much run its course for now), but you did try to spin my opinion.
The post you might be referring to was different. There are people straddling the fence & talking out both sides of their mouth which isn't a big deal, but this part of the thread revolved around whether to give a 2nd in 2019. Either you would or you wouldn't.
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If you're doing a tea leaves thing, Henry is going to get a lot of carries to close out the year because he has done what Vrabel asked and improved.
If you're going by what you've seen, Lewis will still get it a ton and make us wonder why they even have Henry
Nice quotes from Vrabel this week, but I'll believe it when i see it
If you're going by what you've seen, Lewis will still get it a ton and make us wonder why they even have Henry
Nice quotes from Vrabel this week, but I'll believe it when i see it
Vrbael has said all year that he wasn't running hard and that he wanted to see him more tenacious with the ball. He said he's seen that the last few weeks and Henry deserves more carries.
Lewis ran backwards 2-3 times last week. He had a bad run for like 0 yards or -1 but made an amateurish mistake and changed that to minus 5 or 6. On that, Vrabel just said not a good decision, we talked about it, and Lewis is a pro's pro, he knows.
People are making this into an enormous deal like Henry gets 25 carries and Lewis gets two. I don't think two bad decisions benches Lewis. I think Henry's doing well for a few weeks gives him more carries so 18 to 13 in Henry's favor or 15 to 10. I think it's just FF folks or Titans fans that have craved Henry usage, they got a couple quotes they can jump on.
I've never understood it. Henry suits Vrabel's personality so well, but Vrabel seems to llllove Lewis and Henry is just a guy.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
14 more pages for this guy compared to the Melvin Gordon thread. Weird.
PennStater77
Footballguy
Derrick Henry May be the softest RB in the league. I wouldn’t be shocked if Titans cut him this offseason.
ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Is this guy ever going to be the bellcow? Really interested and have strongly considered the past year now about trying to trade for him in my dynasty after the season, but he's not gonna come cheap due to his potential. I just don't know if he'll ever be "the guy."
Elevencents
Footballguy
zamboni
Footballguy
Wouldn't be shocked if *both* Henry and Lewis are cut this offseason. Both have been disappointments.
