The NFL's suspension letter made it pretty clear that they were done with the St. Pat investigation and had determined not to add discipline for that one. So unless the above was posted prior to the letter's release, I'd say Florio is the one to disbelieve.
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RB Ezekiel Elliott, LAC (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Tyron Smith didn't play but yeah, it's looking like LG is going to be an issuedschuler said:
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
Did they actually say they were done with it or did they say that specific suspension had nothing to do with it? If it's the latter then they could be looking at each specific event on its own for separate suspensions. Just one theory.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
My take was that this press release was just a way of pointing out to the public and to Zeke that "Hey, we could have got you much worse. And we still could."
IDK that was just my first reaction.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Was just offered Zeke for Mike Evans straight up in a ppr dynasty.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
I have the 5th pick in one league and will absolutely go Julio/Zeke to start if he is still available. My 2nd round pick last year in this league was Keenan Allen and I managed to survive that and make the playoffs. But I'm confident in my ability to draft well and find guys who can fill in admirably for Zeke until he comes back.shadyridr said:
bagger
Footballguy
That's a bit how I feel. I don't think I would grab zeke if I didn't have one of those two guys, just because they are so strong at that position it covers for it.shadyridr said:
if I had a great option at wr that I loved there I would have gone that way instead but the WRs I wanted (Baldwin, cooks, Cooper) were all gone. I do feel a little exposed in that my WRs aren't quite as good as I normally have but feel like I have a good team with big 2nd half upside. I do waffle if I should have grabbed Hopkins instead but feel like my mid round drafting of WRs is good enough to hold the fort down until week 8.
plus I would feel worse if the Johnson owner grabbed him on the turn after me. That's not a team I would want to face so grabbed him as much as a meta strategy reason than for my own team.
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flyingsushi
Footballguy
Question, if Zeke is suspended the first 6 games, does that count the Cowboys bye week? Will he play week 7 vs SF? Or week 8?
TripItUp
Footballguy
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
He would not be able to play until week 8. That's a long time to go without an early pick especially when you know it ahead of time.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
matttyl
Footballguy
I thought I saw that at least some of the things she says were via text message, which would not be "he said she said" type stuff.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
That could be. Certainly wouldn't look as good then but I would need to see the rest of that conversation for context.
matttyl
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
That's the kind of stuff that will devastate a prosecution, but it even if she said it, it doesn't mean he didn't do it.
Obviously a legal prosecution has different criteria than the NFL ruling. My point was what she said has no bearing on what actually happened.
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It would and likely part of reason why Columbus PD did not press charges but as this suspension goes the determination of Elliot's guilt or innocence is no longer an issue.
bagger
Footballguy
True. However what really matters is ppg so the question becomes does your net ppg improve enough the second half of the season to make up for the first half of the season, especially when playoffs are part of that.
It really comes down to how much of a ppg does one need to have to offset the opportunity cost of foregoing getting the ppg from someone else all season long (in theory). If you think zeke gives you such a massive advantage paired with bell or Johnson that you can give up essentially the incremental points of a lost pick it's clearly worth it.
its not an easy decision and it comes down to where you think tiers are and the impact it has on the draft. Not to make this too much about my draft but by way of example I could have grabbed Hopkins but passed and grabbed Elliott and then got Landry, Crabtree, and Hill with my next three picks. Is Hopkins that much better than those guys over 7 weeks? I don't know maybe, but the delta wasn't big enough for me to forego picking Elliott.
its a nuanced decision that I think is only merited by having Johnson or bell which inherently also means you are getting zeke at the end of the 2nd, not earlier on. Getting him earlier means your first pick isn't as good and your opportunity cost of foregoing a better player makes me think the earliest you even consider zeke is where I got him, and even then if value somehow drops to you then you still may pass.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
At this point, Elliott is going to have to prove to the league he didn't do anything. He will get a chance to that, but I am not sure the league will budge much. IMO, they might offer a reduction to 4 games if and only if Zeke agrees he will not take the case to court. I doubt he will accept 4 games, so we are probably looking at a court filing.
Many times people look at the league as if it were a criminal court. It's not. If he takes it to court, it's not rally a criminal proceeding . . . it would be a process hearing. Essentially, Elliott would have to argue that the league did not follow the guidelines set up in the collectively bargained CBA. The argument that he didn't do it is not one that can be used in a court case against the NFL.
So unless a court will intervene and rule that the CBA breaks accepted labor laws, the only other option is to show how the league did not adhere to the agreed upon process of how they arrived to the conclusion they ruled on. Elliott can't argue the conclusion . . . he can only argue the investigation, the appeal, and the information used to suspend him was not completed as agreed to with the NFPLA. I agree that part of it seems backwards (you can't argue the conclusion and the penalty), but that's how it goes in a union vs. employer lawsuit.
If it gets that far, the league will almost certainly cite the Brady case as case law and ask for Elliott's case to be dismissed based that the Appellate Court just ruled against the NFLPA on the commissioner having the right to dole out punishment however he sees fit.
Unless there is more to this than has been reported, Elliott has Mount Everest to climb to try to beat this.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Of course I'm aware that the NFL is not bound by the same criteria the legal system is. My point was while that her statement not help her credibility in a legal proceeding it doesn't in any way mean Elliot is not guilty.
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I understand I was just pointing that his guilt or innocence no longer matters with respect to his suspension because as you said the NFL is not bound by same legal system criteria and if Elliot sues the NFL and takes this court it won't be to litigate his guilt or innocence it will to litigate if the NFL followed proper procedures. As I typed this I see Anarchy responded saying a longer version of what I'm trying to say.
And my reason for responding to what you wrote had more to do with Mattyl, who I'm not trying to single out, writing this which is what ultimately led to your post " Any truth to what I'm seeing that the girl said something to the effect of "You're a black athlete, I'm a white girl. Nobody will believe you" or have I fallen victim to fake news?". To me none of this matters any longer. I don't really care if he did it or not, we've moved past that phase in this process.
Dez
Footballguy
Is your league 10 teams ? That be the only way I could see Bell making it out of the 2nd round last year. He went around the 11-15 pick in most of my drafts last year (He did fall as low as pick 23 to me in 1 draft yet I still didn't make playoffs in that one
I played in 81 leagues last year Bell never made it out of the 2nd round in any of them.
I have seen/been in 10 drafts this year. Zeke has not made it out of the 2nd round yet.
These are all 12 team leagues.
How many of those drafts were this last weekend?Is your league 10 teams ? That be the only way I could see Bell making it out of the 2nd round last year. He went around the 11-15 pick in most of my drafts last year (He did fall as low as pick 23 to me in 1 draft yet I still didn't make playoffs in that one
I played in 81 leagues last year Bell never made it out of the 2nd round in any of them.
I have seen/been in 10 drafts this year. Zeke has not made it out of the 2nd round yet.
These are all 12 team leagues.
Dez
Footballguy
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
a girl being abused wouldn't have to have people lie for her side and threaten someone viciously
the police know how to weed out liars for the most part, and they decided to not pursue anything on Zeke.
the NFL on the other hand doesn't have any consistency in doing anything as far as punishments and dealing with issues with player.
the police know how to weed out liars for the most part, and they decided to not pursue anything on Zeke.
the NFL on the other hand doesn't have any consistency in doing anything as far as punishments and dealing with issues with player.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
If the NFL did happen to find evidence that the police were not able to and could conclude that Zeke did in fact abuse this woman would any of the this really matter? Would it make sense to complain about how this suspension was treated different than in the past? They didn't handle the past situations appropriately so it seems they are trying to to it right this time.
If you honestly feel that Zeke didn't actually do it and the NFL is making this all up just to make a statement then I can understand your opinion but otherwise I just don't get it.
If you honestly feel that Zeke didn't actually do it and the NFL is making this all up just to make a statement then I can understand your opinion but otherwise I just don't get it.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Yep and im thinking the medical professions had a lot to do with the decision. My guess is they universally told them that the bruises looked like they were from several and not one incident judging by the state of healing.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
For a little insight into the Zeke ordeal I recommend reading what Julie DiCaro wrote on Twitter
https://twitter.com/juliedicaro/status/897942784975527938
https://twitter.com/juliedicaro/status/897942784975527938
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
I believe even if you are not pursued with charges you can still be guilty or wrong. I am in a profession where there is a clear area that they are guilty and it is not worth to pursue, 12 people would never agree on this matter, or a prosecutor chooses just not to pursue this. I have looked at the evidence and can completely understand why charges were never brought against EE. I also can completely understand why the NFL would suspend him using this investigation team they have and applying it to the personal conduct policy. Without using beyond a reasonable doubt and coming to the conclusion with preponderance of the evidence I believe I would rule on the side that he was guilty.
I believe the issue is that should they be conducting investigations outside a criminal scope. I know it was agreed upon and Goodell has all the power, but there could be a lot of instances where players are free of crimes that would get investigated separately by the NFL. This would be the only issue I take with what transpired. I don't think they should have all this power to go all freelance on everyone and make their own decisions. There should be some checks and balance system here.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
smbkrypt24
Footballguy
Absolutely. The problem is that the individual player wants more to do with the salary increase then the collective power change. I heard it on some radio station that it is less than 2% of the players that get suspended. I think this is why it doesn't get pressed to the forefront of the CBA agreements.
Shutout
Footballguy
And that makes perfect sense: With the average NFL career being something like 3 years or less, most of these guys know they aren't the next Aaron Rodgers and they want to make as much as they can right now. They are also betting on themselves in that they all believe they are in the 98% of people who do NOT get suspended so let the 2% of idiots fend for themselves if they do something dumb.
So it's not so much in terms of how they feel of the process. It is more the overlooking of the degree of the process to those it impacts and if you think you won't be in that boat, you don't care.
The General
Footballguy
Wheres he getting drafted in latest drafts?
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
I think shark move is to pass and then make trade offer around week 3.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Personally think he has to be discounted in dynasty. I mean he was under investigation and he still managed to get in a scuffle at a bar and pull up a girls top at a parade. You would think you'd be super careful if you're being watched. Bonehead factor is too high not to discount him some imo. Doesnt help that hes a RB with a short shelf life. Missed games are even more important. Hes still very valuable so i wouldnt kill his worth but i would drop it by 25-30%.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Only way that strategy works is if the owner of the team that owns him starts the season 0-2, or 0-3 and needs to start winning weeks immediately to make the playoffs. If the EE owner is 1-2 or better by week 3--not a chance in heck there is a discount. By week 3 there is a very healthy chance that there is a premium on EE. The ambiguity surrounding EE right now is exactly why his price as dropped. More clarity is likely to cause his price to recover in my opinion.Charlie Harper said:
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Depends. More clarity could be for the worse as well. What happens if another ex girlfriend comes out of the closet and says he smacked her around too? As of now i think most in the fantasy community thinks hes largely innocent.
Hawkeye21
Footballguy
I like this strategy too. It would have to be the right situation but it could work out. If you're off to a great start and they haven't won a game yet you have the upper hand.Charlie Harper said:
This is why I would rather just draft the best players available. Hopefully I get some very capable players and can afford to trade one away.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I don't know if I buy that. I drafted him with the 4th pick before the 6 game suspension was announced. I figured he would be suspended 2-4 games---and I don't think that he's purely innocent. While it certainly seems that the gal might have some holes in her story (and her motivations also seem to be unsavory)-- it's clear that EE also doesn't have the best judgement (dude pulled a girls top down in clear view of the public for example). If another ex comes out and says he smacked her around too--there will have to be a full investigation before the NFL can just tack more time on a suspension that many seem to be ambiguous at best right now. I am personally of the belief that EE will miss 6 games plus the bye week and I would still draft him in the late second/early 3rd if I was drafting today. It's all about risk/reward and assessing those risks. I personally believe that EE is likely to have his suspension reduced minimally (maybe down to 4-5 games) than he is to have it made longer. Because of that belief--I certainly don't see any reason why his value would actually decrease as he gets closer to coming back. Keep in mind--I'm only talking from a redraft perspective here.
The General
Footballguy
I took him at 3.3 in my 12 team draft last night. Had no intention of taking him but it felt worth it at the time.
Having done this: It's a LOOOONG wait til that fourth pick. Lot's of good talent goes and you are sitting there looking at this huge hole in your roster.
Having done this: It's a LOOOONG wait til that fourth pick. Lot's of good talent goes and you are sitting there looking at this huge hole in your roster.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
That's a steal there. That's around the 27th pick? The available rb's around that time are Crowell, maybe Lynch, mccaffrery, you probably passed on wr's like Baldwin and Pryor---so I think EE is an easy grab there. In the 4th round--there will Probably be wr's like Hill, Watkins, Adams still there--who I don't think are a huge dropoff from the 3rd round guys. I think you did really well grabbing him there.
