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RB Jamaal Williams, NO (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter SaintsInDome2006
- Start date
Interseptopus
Footballguy
yeah I will definitely say I called this. he's getting started reps already. much better at pass pro than ty, and the packers top priority is Rodgers
mashedbananas
Footballguy
Sorry to bust balls
, but I think you called Aaron Jones when I quizzed you about it in the Abdullah thread. I appreciated the perspective, but it didn't deter my JW crush.
Dope
Footballguy
GB will give jamal every chance to win the job because of his stellar pass protection. Ty Montgomery could be headed to a Percy Harvin/Curtis Samuel type role.
Not bad, but not RB2..IF jamal wins the job.
Which brings up a funny scenario. Let's say Jamal does win the job in camp. People who had Ty as a RB2, may try feeling smarter than the room and not draft him at all, letting Ty fall later than he should. You could get his as a RB4, maybe? He might go from being overvalued to undervalued in a weekend.
Not bad, but not RB2..IF jamal wins the job.
Which brings up a funny scenario. Let's say Jamal does win the job in camp. People who had Ty as a RB2, may try feeling smarter than the room and not draft him at all, letting Ty fall later than he should. You could get his as a RB4, maybe? He might go from being overvalued to undervalued in a weekend.
az_prof
Footballguy
I drafted Williams because I owned Ty last year and it felt like they really were not comfortable with him as their RB1. While they didn't draft a RB high, the fact that they drafted 3 rookies signaled to me that they didn't necessarily trust him yet, despite what the coaches have said. I do like Williams best of the rookies based on their college film but it really is a crap shoot. I looked at as a lottery that doesn't cost much to play but could pay off big dividends no matter which of those rookie backs you select. Right now Williams has an edge as you would expect since they drafted him first but this should be an interesting competition to watch during pre-season games.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
To be fair, I think long term (2-3 years out) Jones is the back to own out of all of this.Sorry to bust balls
I have said repeatedly in several threads (mostly the Ty thread) that IMO Ty Montgomery will fall out of favor by the bye week and Jamaal Williams (or Aaron Jones, but most likely Jamaal Williams unless JW fails to do anything over the first 2 months) will be the starter or at least get the lions share of the carries for the rest of the season.
Jones and Montgomery are very similar kinds of backs. But Jones has more experience running the ball in general.
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I keep hearing good things about Ty as a runner (apparently several scouts/experts thought he should be a running back before he was even drafted), but always with the caution that his pass blocking still has a ways to go. So yeah, if he can't protect Rodgers, then I don't see how he doesn't fall out of favor (quickly).
Man in the yellow hat
Footballguy
This is Montgomery's job.
http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/08/packers-training-camp-3-quick-takeaways-from-tuesdays-practice/
Montgomery makes pass pro progress
Packer Report @PackerReport
Ty Montgomery was excellent in one on one blitz pickup drill.
12:23 PM - Aug 8, 2017
1 1 Reply 14 14 Retweets 81 81 likes
It’s probably only a matter of time – and reps – before Packers running back Ty Montgomery is a very good pass blocker. He has the frame, strength and mindset required to handle the assignment against all kinds of rushers, and it looks like all the practice and technique training is starting to pay off. If (or when?) Montgomery becomes proficient in pass pro, the Packers will have a true three-down threat at running back. He moved in the right direction on Tuesday.
http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/08/packers-training-camp-3-quick-takeaways-from-tuesdays-practice/
Montgomery makes pass pro progress
Packer Report @PackerReport
Ty Montgomery was excellent in one on one blitz pickup drill.
12:23 PM - Aug 8, 2017
1 1 Reply 14 14 Retweets 81 81 likes
It’s probably only a matter of time – and reps – before Packers running back Ty Montgomery is a very good pass blocker. He has the frame, strength and mindset required to handle the assignment against all kinds of rushers, and it looks like all the practice and technique training is starting to pay off. If (or when?) Montgomery becomes proficient in pass pro, the Packers will have a true three-down threat at running back. He moved in the right direction on Tuesday.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He's used to catch the passes from out of the backfield, so how often will he really be kept in to block anyway?
People are drafting him like he's going to be getting a lot of snaps, so if that's true then the answer would be... a lot?
I'm no OC, but I would think it would be beneficial if you had someone who didn't tip your hand to the defense or that allowed you to switch up the plays at the line. If Ty can't block, then he's a limiting factor so he'd really need to separate himself from the rest of the pack when it comes to rushing and receiving. I have my doubts that he's actually that special in that regard. Wasn't he known for his drops as a WR?
Also no OC, and I agree with your point about predictability. That being said, I would think another concern would be Rodgers' ability to audible. If Ty is on the game, & A-Rod doesn't trust him to pass block, it could inhibit the Pack's ability to change the play at the line.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Not that I know of - I don't think he saw that many targets as a WR.
The point of my last post is that RBs do not really stay in to block all that much - most of the time they may chip a guy, at most, but then either run a pattern or sit in the flat as a safety valve. Montgomery was used as a pass catcher out of the backfield a lot last season once he was moved to RB, so I'm not sure what has changed? If anything he should be improving as a blocker since it's now something he studies and practices.
Yeah, that's what I meant about being able to switch plays at the line.
I am pretty sure I read reports about him having drops in camp/practice in previous years, but it's been a while. I remember thinking it was crazy that everyone was lauding him as some pass catching stud when pass catching was actually why he didn't cut it as a WR...
As for blocking, they do it enough that it is a relatively big aspect of scouting and often holds rookies back from playing time. The reports about Jamaal Williams getting 1st team reps all cited it was due to pass blocking. Do with that information what you will.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He was a second year player last year who saw limited time as a rookie. Where are you getting he couldn't "cut it" as a WR? He played behind Jordy Nelson, Davante Adams and Randall Cobb (and others) - it's not like he was being kept off the field by scrubs. And he was switched to RB out of necessity since all the Packers RBs went down with injury and he had some background at the position. The team saw some potential there obviously since they made the switch permanent heading into this season. It seems disingenuous to imply that means he couldn't "cut it as a WR". And 44 receptions last season when he did not even has a role early in the season kind of shows he was a pretty effective pass catcher at RB.
And as far as pass blocking being a big part of a RB - some one posted a link on here about a week ago that showed that the highest percentage on passing plays that any RB was being kept in to block was 15%. Most RBs topped out under 10%. Obviously there is some importance to being able to pick up the blitz when asked but since Montgomery was used as a pass catching back, I'd say he'd be one of the guys that would be seldom asked to stay in and block and instead be asked to be an outlet for Rodgers. A dump off option is just as effective on a blitz most of the time.
I'm not saying Montgomery is some great RB - the jury is still out and it's very likely that he's not - but the same is true of all the RBs on the Packers roster. The truth is most of these mid to late round RBs come and go pretty quickly.
I don't mean to be rude, but I just don't care enough about Ty as a fantasy player to bother looking up his scouting reports or old camp reports just to prove a point.
As for his 44 rec as a RB last year, I always caution people to not confuse volume with talent. I tend to reference Ingram here - people assumed he couldn't catch because he never got targets, but as soon as the passes were there, voila, he's suddenly a 3 down gem in these forums. Shonn Greene was once praised by Rex Ryan saying "defenders bounce of that guy, but unfortunately so do passes." Greene once caught 30 passes in a season and it wasn't because he was good at it. The Packers had no RBs so they were using short passes to Montgomery as a replacement for a run game (Montgomery only had 1 game with over 9 carries), so I don't think those passes mean he's actually a stud in that aspect, although you would hope even a poor pass catching WR would be a good pass catching RB.
I never said pass blocking occurred a lot - I don't doubt your 10% number, but all I'm saying is that it is still regarded as an important part of a halfback's skill set. It may not happen often, but teams need them to block effectively when they call a play that requires it. And when you have the best QB in the league, it's even more important. The team likes him and I'm sure they'll use him, but if Jamaal Williams blocks and runs between the tackles better, Ty will become a situational RB and thus way overrated for fantasy purposes this year. He's not going to get 40 snaps/game if he can't block.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
What point? That he can't catch? He was drafted by a team that has a great track record of drafting WRs so I'd let that be the starting point on your research if you find the time to care about it.
And I brought up his 44 catches in limited action only to show that he is a solid pass catching RB (because you expressed confusion as to why people labeled him a pass catching stud). I don't think they were saying he was some amazing talent, more that he was used heavily in the passing game. He caught the 44 passes on 56 targets.
You were asking why I didn't think he was a good WR, I thought. I know I read it at least from a guy on DLF and from Waldman that they didn't like him as a WR prospect but thought he could find a role as a RB.
Those short targets won't be there when they find a running game. And he won't be on the field to get them if Jamaal Williams outplays him as a blocker. And no, I wasn't confused as to why they labeled him a pass catching stud - I was saying it was based on nothing but volume.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Jamaal should be one of the more interesting players to watch today.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
you spelled Aaron Jones wrong
This backfield will be interesting all together. Jones is kuch more complete than Williams. Williams sorely disappointed this preseason. I wouldn't be surprised for Jones to get more touches than Williams. but anything is possible.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Good point. In general no matter what happens I think the Packers coaches have to get some of these young players some time in case Montgomery does have a problem at some point health-wise.you spelled Aaron Jones wrong
This backfield will be interesting all together. Jones is kuch more complete than Williams. Williams sorely disappointed this preseason. I wouldn't be surprised for Jones to get more touches than Williams. but anything is possible.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
When Williams scores a goal line TD every Ty owner will panic. forgetting how bad Ty was at the goal line last year.
EBF
Footballguy
Everyone forgets about Mays, but he might have the best pro skill set of the bunch. Big, but also has some speed and agility. Can catch passes out of the backfield.you spelled Aaron Jones wrong
This backfield will be interesting all together. Jones is kuch more complete than Williams. Williams sorely disappointed this preseason. I wouldn't be surprised for Jones to get more touches than Williams. but anything is possible.
GB drafted three backs and they all made the roster. I can see all of them getting a chance this season.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
man... this guy is so good he deserves two threads?
kittenmittens
Footballguy
How's Aaron Jones looking? 
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
we will see next week... or as long as Williams puts up that abysmal ypc maybe we will see him in the second halfHow's Aaron Jones looking?
kittenmittens
Footballguy
No we won't. That's my guess at least, never know what will happen though. If Jones is a better runner, the Packers don't trust him with the other nuances of playing RB.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
their only other R Bs are ripkowski and Jones. Mays is inactive. he hasn't seen any action yet and I doubt he comes in most due to inexperience with the offense. Will be fun next week if he gets action
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Yeah it will be, I'm excited to see Jones too. They seem to play Ripkowski in pure 3rd down passing situations and that's supposed to be Jones' niche, so I really don't think they trust Jones. I could easily be wrong.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Back to Williams, I thought he actually looked good catching that pass thrown behind him on the swing pass.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Lol now Williams is hurt. Ripkowski getting the snaps
kittenmittens
Footballguy
kittenmittens
Footballguy
And there's Jones.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
ourmanflint
Footballguy
Anyone see the injury? Did it look bad? Knee?
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
kittenmittens
Footballguy
Sounds like Williams injury might be serious. Doubt we see him back up 21.. Jones is going to get his shot, I'm curious to see if they give him any pass protection opportunities.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
yes. I'm looking forward to him being healthy next week and everyone going for Williams on my ww and forgetting Jones
kittenmittens
Footballguy
It's being reported as a knee. I watched it again and he got twisted up and immediately grabbed his knee. Players in pile called for medical staff right away. He tried to get up and went back down.
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