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RB Jerick McKinnon, KC (3 Viewers)

Dismattle said:
I just wanna know how much some of you guys are paying   trade/fabb  etc.

Anyone seen the max?
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I have mckinnon in a league where I really need a new lb. 32 teams and I'm possibly either trading him or hill for a lb I really like.  Leaning towards trading hill instead of mckinnon but I'm thinking they're close in value (contract league, close enough but mckinnon has a one year deal,  hill 2)

 
Funkley said:
McKinnon will be more real football good and Asiata will be more fantasy football good.

As usual
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Actually I think the opposite. In PPR McKinnon would be much more valuable. Asiata's blocking is much better than McKinnon's where as McKinnon will produce better numbers for you. Unless you get points for blocking in your league?

 I much rather have a guy that will get actual production and more playing time than a player who you have to cross your fingers that he even gets a chance for a goal line opportunity.

 
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Maybe. Asiata has been pretty efficient in short yardage. So yeah he may be the guy getting short TD opportunity. So in standard scoring leagues this would make Asiata perhaps the better option. They both get used in the passing game. McKinnon just has the ability to make big plays that Asiata does not.

They will split time. Asiata has gotten better since 2014. He actually made some defenders miss a few times last year. McKinnon obviously has a lot more ability to do that and the speed to break off long plays when he does.

 
Many pointing to the last time AP went down and Asiata out-scored McKinnon by a little. 

I believe that was McKinnon's rookie season.  He is the more talented RB, and IMO it's safe to assume he's a better player than he was as a rookie. 

I don't think it's apples-to-apples in looking at Asiata Vs McKinnon from a couple years ago. 

 
JFS171 said:
I expected McKinnon to get this designation the whole time.  The problem is they trust Asiata more for pass protection and short yardage, and there's rumors of this moving to a more pass-heavy offense.
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That may have been true when McKinnon was a rookie. Not sure it holds true today. 

 
2014 game logs.

Matt Asiata

With Peterson out starting week 2

Asiata was treated like the starter in the first couple of weeks and McKinnon did not play much. In game four against Atlanta Asiata has 20 carries 78 yards 3 TD 4 targets 3 receptions 22 yards. In that same game however McKinnon has 18 carries 135 yards 3 targets 1 reception 17 yards. McKinnon kills Asiata in ypc 7.5 to 3.9

In game five Asiata gets 15 rushing attempts but no targets in the passing game, while McKinnon gets 5 targets.

Game 6 the running game kind of disapears against Detroit. Asiata gets 2 targets while McKinnon get 6 targets in the passing game.

I think up to this point Asiata was considered the starter, but against Detroit in a game the Vikings lost, McKinnon seems to have taken over.

McKinnon injures his back after week 11 and Asiata takes over as the main RB again.

During the five weeks, games 7 to 11 where McKinnon is featured more. Asiata gets 21 targets in the passing game still. In part because they like his pass protection ability. Asiata is a guy the defense just forgets about a lot, and so he is a sneaky option on screens in part because of this.

In the next 4 weeks Asiata has 16.25 rushing attempts per game with McKinnon out. He misses the last game of the season.

Jerrick McKinnon

During games 7-11 when McKinnon was starting he averaged 14.4 rushing attempts per game and 3.8 targets per game.

Both players have more experience now and McKinnon has improved in pass protection and as a receiver.

 
Trying to get out in front of this--Who holds more value in the event of a Sam Bradford injury?

 
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Bigboy10182000 said:
Trying to get out in front of this--Who holds more value in the event of a Sam Bradford injury?
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That would mean Shaun Hill is the QB and nothing would really change. It would just hurt all of the Vikings skill players most likely.

McKinnon over Asiata but Asiata might get the short yardage role again.

One thing that deserves mention as far as comparing the two players in 2014 is that Asiata had been with the team for two seasons prior to 2014 while McKinnon was a rookie. I would expect this to be more McKinnon as long as he is healthy.

 
rjv said:
Actually I think the opposite. In PPR McKinnon would be much more valuable. Asiata's blocking is much better than McKinnon's where as McKinnon will produce better numbers for you. Unless you get points for blocking in your league?

 I much rather have a guy that will get actual production and more playing time than a player who you have to cross your fingers that he even gets a chance for a goal line opportunity.
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Why are you assuming McKinnon will play more and/or do more? Asiata will get all of the short TD's. And not everyone plays PPR.

 
Biabreakable said:
One thing that deserves mention as far as comparing the two players in 2014 is that Asiata had been with the team for two seasons prior to 2014 while McKinnon was a rookie. I would expect this to be more McKinnon as long as he is healthy.
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Seems like a lot of people are missing this, and just assuming they will get the exact same split as before.

Obviously, none of us knows how this is gonna end up playing out. That said, the reason people were drafting McKinnon as one of the top handcuffs is that he is really talented. You would hope the coaching staff sees what we all see. Was lucky enough to snag both of them in one league so I'll get to see how it shakes out but my money is on McKinnon.

 
The offensive line is still bad. At least the Vikings have a passing game that defenses will need to focus more on, so things may be easier from that perspective than it has been for Peterson trying to find somewhere to run thus far.

 
I'm in a dynasty league (7 BN slots) and own Apete.  Currently have full 100 FAAB.  

Considering either: (1) bidding 100 FAAB to guarantee I get him; or (2) bidding 87 FAAB which would guarantee I get him over most of the league except for 3 managers (12 team league).  

Thoughts?

 
JFS171 said:
I expected McKinnon to get this designation the whole time.  The problem is they trust Asiata more for pass protection and short yardage, and there's rumors of this moving to a more pass-heavy offense.
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do they? McKinnon was used in pass pro and third downs quite a bit last year and out touched asiata in the red zone and goal line.

 
Funkley said:
I think Asiata is going to be a huge frustration to you guys buying up McKinnon shares. 
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he was RB24 as the lead back in 2014. and that was with zero touchdowns. which is pretty flukey even if someone else is getting all the touches inside the 10. (btw the only touchdowns asiata scored while McKinnon was the guy were in one game and all came on one yard carries a play or two after McKinnon got a carry inside the 15 or 10.)

i'll take that. and heck if he scores a few TDs along the way he'll probably be a good to average RB2. gravy. 

 
strong said:
he was RB24 as the lead back in 2014. and that was with zero touchdowns. which is pretty flukey even if someone else is getting all the touches inside the 10. (btw the only touchdowns asiata scored while McKinnon was the guy were in one game and all came on one yard carries a play or two after McKinnon got a carry inside the 15 or 10.)

i'll take that. and heck if he scores a few TDs along the way he'll probably be a good to average RB2. gravy. 
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I went back at looked at the 2014 season which everyone wants to dwell on. 6 of Asiata's 10 td's came in 2 games and 8 in 3 games. McKinnon also was put on IR in early December for a back injury. This isn't 2014, it's now 2016 and I think McKinnon will be the one who is going to shine this season.  I have my bet hedged as I picked up Asiata just in case.

 
The general reaction to McKinnon this go around is interesting. In 2014, despite being a rookie who converted from QB to RB, the hype machine was in full force. Now he finds himself in the same situation (OL issue withstanding) but with two-ish years of experience under his belt and the reaction is lukewarm. If McKinnon has become legitimately comfortable in the position there's no reason to believe that he won't lead this committee by a pretty fair margin. If someone with his athletic profile manages to put it together he will command touches.

 
SameSongNDance said:
The general reaction to McKinnon this go around is interesting. In 2014, despite being a rookie who converted from QB to RB, the hype machine was in full force. Now he finds himself in the same situation (OL issue withstanding) but with two-ish years of experience under his belt and the reaction is lukewarm. If McKinnon has become legitimately comfortable in the position there's no reason to believe that he won't lead this committee by a pretty fair margin. If someone with his athletic profile manages to put it together he will command touches.
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Agreed. 

 
Jerick McKinnon rushed 16 times for 45 yards in the Vikings' Week 3 win over the Panthers, adding one catch for two yards.
Matt Asiata got the "start," but McKinnon out-touched him 17-7 and out-snapped him 36-19. Yards were just extremely hard to come by behind the Vikings' truly pathetic offensive line, which lost LG Alex Boone to a hip injury early in the proceedings. McKinnon has a major leg up on Asiata — except for perhaps in short-yardage situations — but will face more tough sledding against the Giants' improved defense in Week 4. He'll remain on the RB2 borderline.
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I think McKinnon has some decent games ahead. Next week vs the Giants will be rough, a guy you could buy low and trade for after a tough game next week, an owner may not see his upside and willing to give him up for relatively cheap.

 
I haven't watched his touches yet but the split between him and Asiata was very much in his favor. The thing is, the only play I did see was him failing to pick up the blitz which subsequently lead to a sack. Anyway..

McKinnon saw 35 snaps (65%), 2 targets and 16 carries (1 RZ carry).

Asiata saw 19 snaps (35%), 1 target and 6 carries (1 RZ carry).

It's funny because I'm pretty sure people were calling out the 65/35 split. I didn't expect it to be exact.

 
The pass protection assignment that McKinnon gets rocked on the Panthers had multiple defenders in the A gaps before the play. Those defenders rush outside except for their LB who Boone and Berger do not even try to block. Neither lineman blocks anyone on this play leaving it all on Jet to pick up Davis who rushes right up the middle and gets the sack.

This is a situation where Asiata may have been more successful blocking Davis than McKinnon was, but I still put more of the fault on the guard and center for not not blocking him at all than I do on McKinnon.

McKinnon does show his ability to create on his own again in this game. One of his runs was stuffed where it was designed to go, but he finds a way to get out of it and cut back to the left where Clemmings had made a hole and was sealing his assignment back to the inside. This play only gets like 3 yards or so, but it would have been stuffed for no gain or a loss if he doesn't find a way to cut it back to the left side.

I haven't watched the second half again yet, which was the only part of the game where the Vikings had a successful drive and some decent runs by McKinnon and Asiata.

 
Kid is electric.  IMO he's a back end RB1 for the rest of the season.  Being left in for the 4 yard TD run near the end of the game is a great sign.  Asiata will be a bit of a vulture, but McKinnon will get his chances inside the 5 too.  Sure looks like the Vikings want to give him the ball about 20x a game.  

 
Kitrick Taylor said:
Kid is electric.  IMO he's a back end RB1 for the rest of the season.  Being left in for the 4 yard TD run near the end of the game is a great sign.  Asiata will be a bit of a vulture, but McKinnon will get his chances inside the 5 too.  Sure looks like the Vikings want to give him the ball about 20x a game.  
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Agreed. He has a lateral quickness that should nab him some home run plays the rest of the season. If Bradford continues to improve this entire offense may bust wide open.

 
Kitrick Taylor said:
Kid is electric.  IMO he's a back end RB1 for the rest of the season.  Being left in for the 4 yard TD run near the end of the game is a great sign.  Asiata will be a bit of a vulture, but McKinnon will get his chances inside the 5 too.  Sure looks like the Vikings want to give him the ball about 20x a game.  
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I also liked the direct snap he took.  He may be in line to get a TD pass as well for some cheap points...

 
Zimmer mentioned McKinnon still tip toeing too much behind the line although overall he is happy with how Jet has played. I interpret this as he wants him to just hit the play more decisively and just take what is there instead of trying to create big plays all the time. In a interview with McKinnon he said he needs to do that more as well.

You want him to be able to create big plays on his own of course. That is why he is getting more opportunities than Asiata is, but he needs to pick his battles a bit better and play for yards after contact instead of trying to outflank the defense.

There are times where he will line up outside as a receiver as well, which puts him in position for bubble screens and plays like that.

 
At just 24 years old, he's been arguably my top buy in dynasty the past week and should remain at a reasonable price anytime between now and Week 8 against the Bears.  From what I've seen in my leagues, his value has come down due to the low ypc against some tough D's.  The Vikings are in the midst of a brutal stretch (Panthers, Giants, Texans, Bye, Eagles), have lost both starting tackles, and as a result their run game has suffered.  But beyond the Eagles game, their schedule opens up considerably and McKinnon should continue to see 15-18+ touches per game on a team whose D will continue to allow their offense to see the field plenty.  I'm concerned about their o-line, but not so much on a long-term basis.  In Zimmer I Trust.   Remaining schedule:  Bye, Eagles, Bears, Lions, Redskins, Cardinals, Lions, Cowboys, Jags (Wk 14), Colts (Wk 15), Packers (Wk 16). 

 
The offensive line is a mess. Lots of injuries there. Hell they are having Willie Beavers practice at tackle recently, even though after drafting him they said they intended him to play guard.

They did sign Jake Long. Long said he has been working out every day, but he seems slim for a linemen to me just based on looking at him. I suppose that means good shape, but I wonder about his strength. 

The focus of the Vikings with their offensive line has been to improve their pass blocking much more than their run blocking, and over the first 5 weeks, that shows. This is a departure from their previous focus of being a good run blocking team built around Peterson.

I agree with SayWhat? that McKinnon could be a good buy target right now. I am really not sure when/if they start blocking for the run better than they have so far though.

The opportunity is there as the Vikings are running the ball on 46% of their plays which is supported by the defense and game scripts as long as they have a lead. Over 5 games they are averaging 62 plays/game. The offense has been much more dependent on the pass to move the ball however and McKinnon still has below average yards per target numbers for a RB. Based on this metric which combines yards per reception with catch percentage Matt Asiata has been a more effective receiving option than McKinnon.

Matt Asiata 5.27 YPT
Jerrick McKinnon 4 YPT

Although I think McKinnon is the higher upside RB. Matt Asiata may be the more effective RB, especially with a struggling offensive line. He is better in pass protection and I think a bit more consistent gaining yards after contact (although McKinnon has been good at this as well) as well as more efficient as a receiver. He just doesn't have the big play ability that McKinnon has.

 
oldmanhawkins said:
Any insight on his injury?  He's out of the walking boot but not practicing.  was it a HAS?
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His ankle got rolled up on and he tried to come back from it later on in the game, but couldn't keep playing.

He had a foot or toe injury early on this season.

He didn't practice on Friday but seemed upbeat in the interview with reporters. Not that this means anything. If he doesn't practice today he likely isn't going to play. He might even be inactive.

He did have a couple decent runs in the game. I think one of them was after the ankle injury. But he had to leave the field again not long after that.

 
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