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RB Joe Mixon, HOU (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
DirtyCashDylan
Footballguy
Save the Holier than though ####. You cut him because he's underperformed so far. If he was a stud he'd still be on your team.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Yep. Like Jimmy Johnson son. 5th round pick falls asleep in a meeting--cut his ###! If it's Emmit Smith--wake him up,
Felt good to drop him like a bad habit.
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
I wouldn't bail on Mixon yet. He has a much different set of circumstances than the other rookies having success, two being an O-Line and resourceful scheming. I think there is still time for it to be worked out.
Cleveland's run defense was ranked 6th in efficiency going into this game. For some reason the Bengals just kept pounding Mixon at them with 8 guys in the box. He was often hit by numerous defenders in the backfield for losses, wiping away any of he yardage he'd gained up to that point. When they would get him outside, the blocking was atrocious, notably that of LaFell (LINK to Goodberry). Mixon saw very little usage out of the shotgun, where he looked great last week. Gio racked up stats on 3rd down and 2-minute O while the defense had backed off. Hill was the one who actually received a few carries out of shotgun to open the 2nd half.
Hopefully the offense corrects how they use Mixon and starts to play more to this strengths. I'm thinking the large lead game flow has a lot to do with the predictable vanilla run plays they ran all second half.
1st and 10 at CIN 36 (12:05 - 4th) J.Mixon right end to CIN 31 for -5 yards (E.Ogbah).
1st and 10 at CIN 18 (8:53 - 4th) J.Mixon left guard to CIN 13 for -5 yards (L.Ogunjobi).
2nd and 15 at CIN 13 (8:08 - 4th) J.Mixon left guard to CIN 9 for -4 yards (L.Ogunjobi; D.Kindred).
Cleveland's run defense was ranked 6th in efficiency going into this game. For some reason the Bengals just kept pounding Mixon at them with 8 guys in the box. He was often hit by numerous defenders in the backfield for losses, wiping away any of he yardage he'd gained up to that point. When they would get him outside, the blocking was atrocious, notably that of LaFell (LINK to Goodberry). Mixon saw very little usage out of the shotgun, where he looked great last week. Gio racked up stats on 3rd down and 2-minute O while the defense had backed off. Hill was the one who actually received a few carries out of shotgun to open the 2nd half.
Hopefully the offense corrects how they use Mixon and starts to play more to this strengths. I'm thinking the large lead game flow has a lot to do with the predictable vanilla run plays they ran all second half.
1st and 10 at CIN 36 (12:05 - 4th) J.Mixon right end to CIN 31 for -5 yards (E.Ogbah).
1st and 10 at CIN 18 (8:53 - 4th) J.Mixon left guard to CIN 13 for -5 yards (L.Ogunjobi).
2nd and 15 at CIN 13 (8:08 - 4th) J.Mixon left guard to CIN 9 for -4 yards (L.Ogunjobi; D.Kindred).
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Judge Smails
Footballguy
Hill and Bernard looked better. And got the relevant time. That's a problem for Mixon owners.
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
Which of Hill's carries are you referring to? That one?
1st and 10 at CIN 38 (13:02 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Hill right guard to CIN 41 for 3 yards
2nd and 1 at CLE 26 (4:38 - 1st) J.Hill left tackle to CLV 25 for 1 yard
2nd and 4 at CLE 18 (2:29 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Hill right guard to CLV 16 for 2 yards
1st and 10 at CLE 11 (1:07 - 1st) J.Hill right tackle to CLV 10 for 1 yard
1st and 10 at CIN 41 (14:25 - 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Hill right tackle to CIN 42 for 1 yard
2nd and 10 at CLE 48 (13:01 - 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Hill right guard to CLV 35 for 13 yards
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Judge Smails
Footballguy
Well certainly not these
1st and 10 at CIN 36 (12:05 - 4th) J.Mixon right end to CIN 31 for -5 yards (E.Ogbah).
1st and 10 at CIN 18 (8:53 - 4th) J.Mixon left guard to CIN 13 for -5 yards (L.Ogunjobi).
2nd and 15 at CIN 13 (8:08 - 4th) J.Mixon left guard to CIN 9 for -4 yards (L.Ogunjobi; D.Kindred).
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
timbrah_ho
Footballguy
Meh, he was "the next big thing" a week ago and now "he sucks" -- pretty standard FF crowd buzz. Holding but not starting until this shakes out more. The truth likely lies in the middle somewhere.
I never said he sucks. What I said was basically what you just said. Perhaps he not as good as everyone thought he would be.
Chaka
Footballguy
Involvement of the other backs? He got 21 touches two weeks in a row, what more do you want?
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
I watched every snap.
You can not completely blame Mixon for his negative runs. If a RB is losing 4 and 5 yards on his carries that means he's being met 5 yards behind the line by a defender, in this case multiple defenders. He's still a bit too lackadaisical at times, tip toeing the line between being patient and tentative, but at most he could lose 2 or 3 yards instead of 4 or 5 on those runs.
Hill looks the same, there's no way that he's a legitimate threat to Mixon. He flashes once or twice a game but most of the time he's Mixon at his worst (tentative) without any of the upside. Gio looks good, I definitely don't see him disappearing anytime soon but the fact is that his role has diminished since Lazor took over. He went from being utilized 9 times in week 1 on 48% of the snaps and 9 times in week 2 on 52% of the snaps to being utilized 5 times on 21% of the snaps and 7 times on 33% of the snaps over the past two weeks.
Mixon has been utilized 21 times over the past two weeks and believe me when I say he's as talented as advertised. He makes cuts very few backs can make and when his OL doesn't get completely dominated, his Bell like patience very much works. Several times a game I'll say "Wow, he's special." to myself. If he was receiving this type of volume behind a more competent OL I think he would be extremely productive.
You can not completely blame Mixon for his negative runs. If a RB is losing 4 and 5 yards on his carries that means he's being met 5 yards behind the line by a defender, in this case multiple defenders. He's still a bit too lackadaisical at times, tip toeing the line between being patient and tentative, but at most he could lose 2 or 3 yards instead of 4 or 5 on those runs.
Hill looks the same, there's no way that he's a legitimate threat to Mixon. He flashes once or twice a game but most of the time he's Mixon at his worst (tentative) without any of the upside. Gio looks good, I definitely don't see him disappearing anytime soon but the fact is that his role has diminished since Lazor took over. He went from being utilized 9 times in week 1 on 48% of the snaps and 9 times in week 2 on 52% of the snaps to being utilized 5 times on 21% of the snaps and 7 times on 33% of the snaps over the past two weeks.
Mixon has been utilized 21 times over the past two weeks and believe me when I say he's as talented as advertised. He makes cuts very few backs can make and when his OL doesn't get completely dominated, his Bell like patience very much works. Several times a game I'll say "Wow, he's special." to myself. If he was receiving this type of volume behind a more competent OL I think he would be extremely productive.
Andy Dalton was their leading rusher. None of the three backs had success. You need blocking. Five years from now, Mixon will be a star, Hill will be out of football, and Gio may still be around as a third down back. I'm just not sure the Bengals have enough O-lineman to allow Mixon to be much of a factor this year.
Donny Loved Bowling
Footballguy
So maybe a buy low on Mixon in redraft is not such a hot idea?
electric Ape
Footballguy
I think SongNDance nailed it. I wasn't able to see the Buffalo game but I watched the previous 4 and the assessment above jibes exactly with what I was also seeing. By no means is Mixon perfect but he's in a bit of a rough situation and he's flashing elite abilities just often enough that you have to believe he will be very productive at some point in his future.
As the Bengals find ways to get Mixon in space I think he will bust some long plays even though it hasn't happened yet. I also think he can line up in the slot or wide and do some rare things in the passing game that really haven't been unleashed as of yet...
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Pit is giving up the 4th most PPG to RBs in full PPR
heckmanm
Footballguy
I'm guessing he'll try to get him back at a lower salary. Several of the rookie RBs went pretty high (Fournette $57 on a $400 cap; Cook $60)
Still I agree with your general sentiment. I saw the transaction and immediately went looking to see if he had decked another woman or something.
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BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The utilization the last 3 games is encouraging, the production is not. But go watch the condensed games & you’ll see he’s been more impressive than his box scores. He’s often met in the backfield but does a nice job shedding tacklers to get something out of nothing.
I expected to be the lead back by Halloween but the OC change accelerated that. He’s dominating touches (57-19-15) the last 3. But the O-line has to start gelling as a unit. What we’ve seen from them is not surprising given the off-season turnover & it’s not unheard of for a group to improve as the season goes on provided you don’t have a rash of injuries. No Bengals O-lineman were on the injury report this week (Boling, who is probably their best, missed practice due to his wife having a baby.)
This week should be a good litmus test for the CIN run game. It’s been underwhelming but they’re coming off a bye with a good matchup v. the division leader in a game they desperately need if they want to be in the hunt for a WC.
I expected to be the lead back by Halloween but the OC change accelerated that. He’s dominating touches (57-19-15) the last 3. But the O-line has to start gelling as a unit. What we’ve seen from them is not surprising given the off-season turnover & it’s not unheard of for a group to improve as the season goes on provided you don’t have a rash of injuries. No Bengals O-lineman were on the injury report this week (Boling, who is probably their best, missed practice due to his wife having a baby.)
This week should be a good litmus test for the CIN run game. It’s been underwhelming but they’re coming off a bye with a good matchup v. the division leader in a game they desperately need if they want to be in the hunt for a WC.
Hartliner
Footballguy
In my redraft ppr, I had the opportunity to trade Mixon this week before week 7, because everyone (including me) are expecting the RB1 breakout game for Mixon that solidifies him. However, I may try to use this impending blow up game as a sell high opportunity and get something for him in a trade. The offer is still there but, I think this will be the game we've been waiting for.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
OC changes are a key factor in a lot of situations. Orleans Darkwa is another example.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I’m leaning this way as well. After getting blown up last night by Amari (down 0.00 - 50.0) I realize I need an upgrade at WR.
For reference:
Bell, Martin, Mixon, Smallwood, Ivory
Allen, Cooks, Funchess, Fuller, Parker
WR WR WR RB RB Flex
kneeshooter
Footballguy
Next three games are big for him, as the Steelers (8), Colts (5) and Jags (13) are all in the bottom part of the league in points allowed to RBs. Hopefully he can establish himself by then.
In fact, six of his last 10 games are against teams in the bottom 12 (Steelers again, Ravens (11) and Detroit (8) Week 16).
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Semi-common shark-ish move for guys struggling. I'm not in my auction league any more but was able to do this with a whole lot of guys. Even if you only save 5%, that's a big 5% of free equity that pays off on draft day when you want to bully the dollar derby guys.
heckmanm
Footballguy
Oh, yeah, I've done it myself. I'm in rebuild mode, so I'm debating how much to bid for him and still get a salary that I'll want to hold for the future.
dnurk
Footballguy
Looks like Joe wasn’t happy with zero second half carries and admitted it after the game. Can’t say I blame him. And then Marvin responds with some crap about not wanting to “create a run”when they’re down by “12 or 15 points”. Marvin, you guys were only down 6 going into the 3rd quarter. And the entire second half was all FGs for PIT .
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2740454-marvin-lewis-says-joe-mixon-should-show-maturity-amid-complaints-on-usage
Wonder if this has any positive or negative impact on his usage next week.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2740454-marvin-lewis-says-joe-mixon-should-show-maturity-amid-complaints-on-usage
Wonder if this has any positive or negative impact on his usage next week.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I'm kind of with Lewis as far as calling out Mixon. He really hasn't done squat to justify complaining.
Mixon got his 20 touches in weeks 3 & 4 & did little overall. Under 2 yards a carry in week 4. He did well in his limited touches this past week, but it's not like Mixon has shown the Bengals he can be a consistent producer.
That said, it's not all Mixon's fault. He's got a lot of upside, but has been hindered by their offense. It'll be interesting to see if Mixon can get going.
Mixon got his 20 touches in weeks 3 & 4 & did little overall. Under 2 yards a carry in week 4. He did well in his limited touches this past week, but it's not like Mixon has shown the Bengals he can be a consistent producer.
That said, it's not all Mixon's fault. He's got a lot of upside, but has been hindered by their offense. It'll be interesting to see if Mixon can get going.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Kid should keep his mouth shut...but he's right. The 2nd half game plan was abysmal.
Lewis having a public feud with a rookie is almost as bad.
Lewis having a public feud with a rookie is almost as bad.
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This is exactly the point I have been trying to make. If Mixon gets 20 touches this week then it's like a slap in Lewis' face that Mixon is right (which he is but that's beside the point). What Mixon did confirmed what Lewis thinks about rookies. They make rookie mistakes (on and off the field). All you FF players who invested in any Cinn skill position players please do your research on Marvin Lewis. Now that Mixon and Lewis are having a public feud Mixon is going to lose out on this one. Lewis has a HUGE ego when it comes to rooks. Temper your expectations this week.
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/8/11/16125604/marvin-lewis-joe-mixon-nfl-preseason-debut-buccaneers
"Lewis will occasionally dish out some nice praise for rookies, but he’s normally a guy who wants new players to prove their worth before endorsing them."
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/10/11/16453726/marvin-lewis-best-defense-bengals
"It is no secret that the Cincinnati Bengals don’t play rookies. Over Marvin Lewis’ time with the team, few rookies have played that much."
http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/sports/playing-time-tough-find-for-bengals-rookies-marvin-lewis-era/ByCiTvHF53Q3ZvZrmZjjjJ/
"it’s becoming increasingly harder for rookies to come in and make an impact on a team that has been to the playoffs five years in a row and goes into every offseason with the intent of re-signing as many of its own players as it can."
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/1/4/14153912/coach-talk-marvin-lewis-talks-keeping-veterans-and-not-trusting-rookies
"Going back to this fear of releasing underperforming veterans, Lewis essentially shows that the team is afraid of a rookie making a rookie mistake, and would rather rely on subpar veterans over a younger player who is not given an opportunity to prove what they can do. This has been a common theme during Lewis’ tenure in Cincinnati."
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I'm not concerned over Mixon's comments affecting his touches in the short term.
First, they were relatively mild and as much about the running game in general as himself personally.
Second, Lewis implied Mixon got baited into airing his frustrations (We got to handle it all the time the correct way, and be strong enough to not be led into questions after the game, which unfortunately he doesn't know enough about.")
Teaching moment. Nothing more. But obviously Lewis will not tolerate future transgressions.
First, they were relatively mild and as much about the running game in general as himself personally.
Second, Lewis implied Mixon got baited into airing his frustrations (We got to handle it all the time the correct way, and be strong enough to not be led into questions after the game, which unfortunately he doesn't know enough about.")
Teaching moment. Nothing more. But obviously Lewis will not tolerate future transgressions.
JFS171
Footballguy
The full text of Lewis' quote is interesting there ... thanks for posting that.
I took Mixon's complaint as both personal but for the RBs in general. They were having success running the ball in the first half (mostly with Mixon), and then completely abandoned it in the second half.
Also, Lewis' archaic approach to veteran deference is a joke. Having Hill on the field for the first snap of the game and the first snap of the 2nd half is completely meaningless, and Hill's just not as good as Mixon. I just really don't understand taking the PR hit by drafting this kid in the second round only to turn around and not really use him to his fullest potential.
As for Mixon not producing in weeks 3 and 4 ... they often talk about the game slowing down for Rookies, but that only comes with experience. The more Mixon gets, the better he's going to get IMO.
I took Mixon's complaint as both personal but for the RBs in general. They were having success running the ball in the first half (mostly with Mixon), and then completely abandoned it in the second half.
Also, Lewis' archaic approach to veteran deference is a joke. Having Hill on the field for the first snap of the game and the first snap of the 2nd half is completely meaningless, and Hill's just not as good as Mixon. I just really don't understand taking the PR hit by drafting this kid in the second round only to turn around and not really use him to his fullest potential.
As for Mixon not producing in weeks 3 and 4 ... they often talk about the game slowing down for Rookies, but that only comes with experience. The more Mixon gets, the better he's going to get IMO.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Ego over logic. Doubt he sees much of the field this week.
Lewis is fighting for his job. And he knows it. And Mixon was 100% right about last week. The upper management of this team is going to be here way longer than lewis and so will Mixon. I don't think Lewis is going to be dumb enough to sit his best running back to prove a point or win some kind of power struggle when he's about to lose every ounce of power he has.
The big thing is mixon didn't just complain about his touches. He also said the rbs in general didn't get used in the second half after doing pretty good in the first half and that is 100% true. Yes he probably shouldn't have said anything and I am worried about Lewis "benching" him a little the next game or two but in the long run mixon will be just fine
Hopefully Mixon's message goes above this Lewis idiot and I helps him out the door. Only an idiot doesn't play rookies because they are rookies. If Carson Wentz doesn't play as a rookie, he is no where near his current level. Someone fire this moron. He's had way more time at the job than he deserves.
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Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Idk how Lewis is still employed, and I've wondered for yearsdnurk said:
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
I don't think this was an example of Lewis benching rookies just for being rookies. Mixon wasn't really benched, they just gave up on the run while behind. He was still getting snaps in the second half, they just didn't call running plays
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Historically Lewis has played underperforming veterans over talented rookies on defense. I found a few articles about it in the off-season/PS. But Gio, Hill, and now Mixon got plenty of touches in their first year. The first two were easier to justify given their production.
Mixon looks great on tape even though the breakout hasn’t come. Lots of touches the last 4 G, average YPC 4.5 the last two after getting 2.6 the first four - mostly due to line play.
Another good matchup this week, I’m starting him with Bell & Smallwood over Doug Martin.
Mixon looks great on tape even though the breakout hasn’t come. Lots of touches the last 4 G, average YPC 4.5 the last two after getting 2.6 the first four - mostly due to line play.
Another good matchup this week, I’m starting him with Bell & Smallwood over Doug Martin.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
That is the way I see it also.
Lewis had no problem playing Jeremy Hill as a rookie.
Bernard is their passing down RB when healthy.
Futz
Footballguy
He is without question one of the most frustrating players I've ever owned. The coaching staff ties his shoes laces together and one arm behind his back. You see the glimpses of his ability but he's hard to trust especially with that OL.
Thoughts on his Jax. matchup this week? They are not great against the run (20th) but I don't expect much in what should be a low scoring affair.
Thoughts on his Jax. matchup this week? They are not great against the run (20th) but I don't expect much in what should be a low scoring affair.
Hartliner
Footballguy
Jeremy is a healthy scratch so it's going to be the Mixon and Gio show today. Mixon should get goal line and Fournette is also out today. So makes me feel Jags are going to be less likely to completely grind out the clock. Weird changes but I feel better about Mixon in the news that is coming in. Hope he breaks out today or at least performs better. Hes got the opportunity.
GreedoShotFirst
Footballguy
groin pains
Footballguy
So Mixon and Gio will split Hill's 7 snaps that he accounted for last week. I am tempering expectations of a potential breakout game.
Hopefully the absence of Hill will cause the Bengals to accidentally allow Mixon to find a rhythm.
Well, FWIW, Hill was placed on IR. This actually happened a couple of days ago, but I completely missed it because I'm hoping last week is the last time I need to start Mixon this year, so I haven't been paying attention. That said, this can only help him if we're forced to plug him in due to injuries. It seems like last week is the best we can hope for, with a TD that should have been overturned but wasn't.
