massraider
Footballguy
Whoa. That guy is poison. Surprised he's not hosting a drive time radio show in Boston.
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RB Jonathan Taylor, IND (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Basically from what I've read Taylor tried the nice guy/passive approach and it literally was not getting him anywhere as the Colts never made him any type of offer. Not a low offer, no offer. So he decided to switch his strategy/agent and is trying a whole different approach.
This new agent might be more hatchet man then skilled negotiator/advisor but he's probably playing the role he was hired to play.
Yogibear
Footballguy
The only team that I think makes sense for him to go to is the Dolphins. And here's why: It's only a matter of time before Dalvin Cook signs with the Jets, and that deal is going to be at least two years. I don't think Raheem Mostert is the long-term answer in Miami. If the Dolphins do add Jonathan Taylor, it will give them their best option at RB since Ricky Williams.
rockaction
Footballguy
God, I don't want that to be the case and you'd have thought the Jets learned from Le'Veon Bell's contract. I don't think it's going to be for two years, and if it is, there'll be an out in the form of a roster bonus for 2024 or some nonsense like that. I can't see the Jets paying Cook that premium when they have Hall. That's what the rational side of me wants to think. The side that knows the Jets are all-in for two years leaves me to think that anything is possible.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He’s only 31.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
I roster Wilson so "Dalvin Cook stuns crowds, signs in New England" would be my ideal headline.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
What would Miami be willing to offer for a disgruntled RB who wants a big new contract and may have a back injury?
massraider
Footballguy
Taylor scheduled to make 4 mill. They will franchise. That tag will be 12-ish? or so.
Colts are already prepared to spend 16+ mill on him over the next two years. And next year they will carry that franchise tag number for him. So yeah, he'll be off the books after that, but he's STILL gonna have a big number next year.
Why not tack on another year with an 8 mill base, and a 'no franchise' clause, maybe some void years, and give him 20 mill today (between signing bonus, roster bonus, and base). He gives up a year of free agency, but gets a massive chunk of money now, to offset that. Colts could do a deal where he never reaches a cap number of 12 mill, get an extra year out of him, and then send him on hos way (probably with a reasonable dead cap charge).
Maybe he says no, maybe he probably says no. But the Colts aren't even trying to see if they can find a deal.
Colts are already prepared to spend 16+ mill on him over the next two years. And next year they will carry that franchise tag number for him. So yeah, he'll be off the books after that, but he's STILL gonna have a big number next year.
Why not tack on another year with an 8 mill base, and a 'no franchise' clause, maybe some void years, and give him 20 mill today (between signing bonus, roster bonus, and base). He gives up a year of free agency, but gets a massive chunk of money now, to offset that. Colts could do a deal where he never reaches a cap number of 12 mill, get an extra year out of him, and then send him on hos way (probably with a reasonable dead cap charge).
Maybe he says no, maybe he probably says no. But the Colts aren't even trying to see if they can find a deal.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
does he really have back pains in camp or is that so he can sit on the sidelines until traded so to avoid injury?
Either way, what he did last year was so unimpressive it can't be ignored. his ypc avg dropped a full yard from 2021, down from 5.5 to 4.5 yards per carry. that's startling.
some of that can be attributed to the fecklessness that was frank reich 2022 as the team imploded on him, but a full yard per carry stat change is troublesome for me.
and, throw in a potential back injury. And then there's the record of Wisco RBs that do well for a cup of coffee in the nfl then flop. Melvin Gordon, Taylor, ron dayne, michael bennett. ok yeah james white he's the outlier. Take Taylor and put him on a team without the best line in the NFL , which is what the colts had for 2021 and most of last season, and he's pretty much an average RB. remember, Wisco has and always will have one of the best o-lines in ncaa football.
the guy screams do not draft to me.
Either way, what he did last year was so unimpressive it can't be ignored. his ypc avg dropped a full yard from 2021, down from 5.5 to 4.5 yards per carry. that's startling.
some of that can be attributed to the fecklessness that was frank reich 2022 as the team imploded on him, but a full yard per carry stat change is troublesome for me.
and, throw in a potential back injury. And then there's the record of Wisco RBs that do well for a cup of coffee in the nfl then flop. Melvin Gordon, Taylor, ron dayne, michael bennett. ok yeah james white he's the outlier. Take Taylor and put him on a team without the best line in the NFL , which is what the colts had for 2021 and most of last season, and he's pretty much an average RB. remember, Wisco has and always will have one of the best o-lines in ncaa football.
the guy screams do not draft to me.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I don't see Miami getting involved
Their answer of late is to spend sparingly at RB, they did try Chase Edmonds at about $6M per year last season, Achane is going to be a big part of the Miami offense this year.
massraider
Footballguy
Keefer: Colts' relationship with Jonathan Taylor has unraveled dramatically. So now what?
Not long ago, a new deal for Taylor felt like a formality. Now he and the Colts are like teens beefing in a high school hallway.
theathletic.com
Taylor, once a jovial, team-first beacon of unbridled optimism, has looked and sounded starkly different over the past month, watching practices with a tightly-wrapped hoodie and, oftentimes, a scowl on his face. He’s vented on social media, offering a peek at his simmering frustrations. The player whose image hangs on a sprawling mural outside of Lucas Oil Stadium now faces a murky future with the team, with no guarantee he suits up for the Colts again.
What’s also telling: Taylor is now the third player to ask for a trade out of Indy in the past nine months, following running back Nyheim Hines (sent to Buffalo in October) and cornerback Stephon Gilmore (shipped to Dallas in March). The unceasing chaos that sunk last season has bled its way into 2023, and we’re barely a week into training camp.
Of those three trade requests, this is easily the messiest
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Such a horrible narrative developing for Taylor owners. Whatever does happen it just needs to happen soon or the season will be marginal at best.
steelcityman
Footballguy
the way he was wobbling around at colts camp, he looks no where near ready to go. I am going to cut him free in my keeper league, cause it will mean replacing him with Bijan for this year. Maybe draft him back if a couple teams pass on him, doubt they will. But thats okay. I think he is screwed either way, limps thru a season with colts, or limps thru a season on another team, misses games regardless.
I mean... you were going to cut him free for Bijan before all this stuff went down anyways, right?
steelcityman
Footballguy
Probably, league has a strange keeper process. There is a way I can keep Fields, Taylor and still get Bijan, depending on who else is cut from other teams. If JT comes back, gets in a couple weeks of practice before our cut down day and I can keep him and still get Bijan too, I will do that.
As much as people seem to not want to consider the possibility, everything out of Miami seems to indicate they think Achane is going to be a major player for them, and that Mostert and Wilson are solid enough compliments.
rockaction
Footballguy
Everyone will get on me for this, but I don't think he makes Miami, New York, or New England better other than for depth. Mostert and Wilson both destroyed Cook in RYOE last year.
rockaction
Footballguy
And Cook's not done, per se. But he's getting close and I don't think he's the best running back on any of those teams.
I agree Cook wouldn't be, but Taylor would be.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
IF Miami isn't Breaking the bank for cook, there is no way they jump into the taylor fray.
I think Miami's thinking basically changed when they drafted Achane. Before that there were reports of interest in cook (but they couldn't get a deal w Minny) and they did try to trade fror Swift before drafting Achane. Once they used one of their 4 draft picks on a RB and resigned the guys from last year, they were done. Dalvin is still an option for Miami but at their price (likely close to what they gave Edmonds last year).
Miami's cap has gotten better, but to be honest: If Miami was going to trade for anyone, I'd rather then shake trey lance loose from SF as Tua insurance than get a stud RB.
Birdie048
Footballguy
No grief given here..
I don't disagree that Mostert & Wilson will compete and be valuable to MIA offense. May not be fantasy relevant due to limited touches, but still supporting roles for team.
Birdie048
Footballguy
Let me ask a hypothetical ... if you had a chance to buy a 2012 Accord (Blue Book $900) with 250k miles for $500 or a 2022 Accord (Blue Book $28K) for $20K.... which would you buy? What offers a bigger savings or bigger investment and potential ROI?
The soon to be broken down (Cook) for low ball offer or the much newer, still valuable but more expensive performer (JT)??
massraider
Footballguy
Yes, I am sure he will be out until week 1 or a trade, whichever comes first, that's my diagnosis
rockaction
Footballguy
Whoops. I got the threads confused.
3nOut
Footballguy
Depends if whether you are saving for a 2025 Lexus.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I am not denigrating Taylor when I said that. I am simply saying I do not believe the dolphins believe they need a RB.
Birdie048
Footballguy
Sorry if I implied something else. I was just pointing out that any team could see value in adding JT and that even if they low-ball D Cook, the potential Return on Investment for JT would be significantly higher, even if the cost was also significantly higher.
I was just implying your reference is not valid for how each potential RB signing is viewed.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Well, yeah, BUT, my contention is once Miami "settled" on drafting a RB it kind of signaled they were out of the RB sweepstakes. Prying Taylor from Indy would be harder than Miami's past 3 deals (Chubb, Tyreek, Ramsey) and those three players the dolphins knew they needed.
How can you say this when they have clearly been pursuing Cook? Just because they haven't signed him (yet) doesn't mean they're "out of the sweepstakes".
Miami landing Taylor is unlikely for a few reasons, but having drafted a tiny RB in the 3rd round isn't one of them.
Chaka
Footballguy
I love stats but these "over expected" stats sound contrived and entirely unverifiable.
The only purpose they seem to serve is to advance discussion on message boards.
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Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
I disagree. Again, are they "pursuing" cook? It seems they made him an offer and he wants more money. Have they budged from that offer? Miami negotiated with Minny and with Detroit before/during the draft for Cook and Swift respectively (and there is a rumor they inquired about Saquon), but once they Drafted Arcane (and re-signed all their guys from last year) their interest has cooled a bit. Cook has an offer out from Miami and he is torn with taking less money to play at Home vs more to play somewhere else. I'm sure if he does sign with Miami it will be because he either didn't have the market he expected or Miami has an injury to the RB room and they up their offer because of it.
As a Dolphin fan and fantasy player I like Cook as a player, but I don't see Miami breaking the bank for him or anyone else at that position. San Fran didn't until they had a shot at CMAC and Miami has put most of their resources into other positions and is treating the RB room (much like the rest of the NFL) on the Cheap.
massraider
Footballguy
Yeah I wondered about this.
Are the Fins looking to bring in a Big RB, or is this all media and fantasy owners who are trying to make that a thing?
rockaction
Footballguy
I know they sound contrived and (I think you mean) unverifiable.
That said, there are teams paying top dollar to people that chart this stuff and those teams are definitely looking at the data they're receiving from the charted material.
Trust me on that one.
rockaction
Footballguy
I really (honestly) think it's about half and half. There's a slight need, and it's warranted to speculate guys going there when there seems to be an awful lot of smoke around it. Wilson and Mostert have never been bastions of health, and Achane is small. It makes sense to have a proven load-bearer on the squad in Cook (or Taylor). If we're talking about Miami having a Super Bowl offense and defense, then a look at the running back room leaves only questions. Probably their weak spot.
So people are asking those questions.
massraider
Footballguy
I think it's a very big factor, if the Colts are going to trade him, that he leave the AFC.
Irsay does not want to, but if he eventually does, that matters.
Irsay does not want to, but if he eventually does, that matters.
Chaka
Footballguy
Thanks, yes I did mean unverifiable (edited).
People pay top dollar for Leroy Domaine d'Auvenay Chevalier-Montrachet Grand Cru (yes, I had to look that up. $30k/bottle wtf?) but it still only gets you just as drunk as a bottle of Ripple.
You can plot every aspect of acceleration, momentum, distance to ball etc etc etc of every player on any given play but you can't account for the differences when defensive player A is Nick Bosa or Micah Parsons, or offensive player A is Derrick Henry or CMAC; players who can do more within the confines of their acceleration/momentum/distance to ball as opposed to the third string guy backing up their backups. There are quite possibly literally too many variables that cannot be accounted for ATM, if ever.
I'm not saying people are entirely wasting their money but I am saying that using any one specific "advanced metric", like RYOE, to demonstrate a specific point kinda is a waste.
I'm not even certain they've made him an offer, but yes, if they did, quite clearly they are pursuing him. Is that really debatable?
You keep saying "break the bank"- I think everyone agrees with that, no teams are breaking the bank for RBs. Not seeing how that's relevant to the conversation though.
You initially said "If Miami isn't breaking the bank for cook, there is no way they jump into the taylor fray". How do you get from one to the other? Taylor is much better and younger than Cook, so it's perfectly logical that they might have different levels of interest in the 2 players (which is what Birdie's analogy was about). Then you said when they drafted Archane it signaled they were out of the RB sweepstakes. Except they are openly in the RB market as shown by their interest in Cook, and that was before anyone even knew Taylor was potentially an option.
Anyway, I agree that there's very little chance he ends up there, but I don't think we can deduce that from having drafted Archane or not "breaking the bank" for Cook.
rockaction
Footballguy
Devon or De'Von Achane. If it was once, it's a typo, twice it's autocorrect or you're just getting the name wrong.
goose_egged
Footballguy
Any team that trades for Taylor would have to be prepared to give him a satisfactory extension or they just end up where they Colts are now, right? Anyone have a good idea what value range Taylor is seeking for his extension?
rockaction
Footballguy
I think you're right and no, I don't.
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Again, I do not work in their FO but I think They will either use their FB or their speed to deal with this. I do not recall them having an in season "big back" last year.
One of life's great mysteries, isn't it?
rockaction
Footballguy
Hmmm. . .I was trying to be kind in understating it, but it seems that went for naught.
Fine. We'll just conclude you don't know what the **** you're talking about since you don't even know the guy's name. How's that?
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Sometimes I type fast. Sometimes its auto correct. You know who I am talking about.@humpback Again, Miami is "all in" on trying to win it these next two years but how much of the future do you give up for Taylor (knowing you also need to pay him)? CMAC was already under contract to Carolina when the 9ers came calling so they didn't have to eat his signing bonus...
