RB Jonathan Taylor, IND (1 Viewer)

[32 Counter Pass]

I agree with Zyphros here... Akers is above JT right now for me. 

Well that’s convincing

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Come rookie draft time nobody will be taking Akers over Taylor.

 

[KingPrawn]

4.39

Remember when the take in here was "he looks slow"? 

The take in here of "he can't catch" will ultimately prove to be just as wrong. 

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Remember when the take in here was "he looks slow"? 

The take in here of "he can't catch" will ultimately prove to be just as wrong. 

it's kind of funny.  Taylor made some catches this year where i didn't realize it was him.  I thought it was a receiver on a sideline go route.  

He didn't just catch the ball on dump offs.  He's easily the top RB in the class.  

 

[Zyphros]

Come rookie draft time nobody will be taking Akers over Taylor.

Watch me. 

But seriously this is just foolish to say.  What if Akers goes to KC in the 2nd while Taylor gets taken by the Miami in the 2nd (but a little earlier)? Not bad spots for either but 1 is the prime landing spot.  

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Watch me. 

But seriously this is just foolish to say.  What if Akers goes to KC in the 2nd while Taylor gets taken by the Miami in the 2nd (but a little earlier)? Not bad spots for either but 1 is the prime landing spot.  

Nah. Moses could bring his water parting skills to the Chiefs and someone would pooh pooh it because there'd be "too many mouths to feed".

 

[King of the Jungle]

I guess I need to try to get over my fear of Wisconsin running backs.

 

[Faust]

Next Gen Stats @NextGenStats

Jonathan Taylor is the total package when it comes to size, athleticism and production.

Pending the results of the 3-cone, Taylor is just the 4th running back since 2011 with a 95+ Athleticism and Production Score.

The others? Saquon Barkley, Nick Chubb and Christian McCaffrey

https://twitter.com/nextgenstats/status/1233570084892758016?s=21

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Watch me. 

But seriously this is just foolish to say.  What if Akers goes to KC in the 2nd while Taylor gets taken by the Miami in the 2nd (but a little earlier)? Not bad spots for either but 1 is the prime landing spot.  

I agree that draft capital and landing spot will influence the final order but with what I know right now I have JT ranked #1. I say that with some hesitation because I recall at this time last year AJ Brown was being touted as the #1 WR in the 2019 draft class. Once he was attached to the Titans the hype died down. 

 

[barackdhouse]

I agree that draft capital and landing spot will influence the final order but with what I know right now I have JT ranked #1. I say that with some hesitation because I recall at this time last year AJ Brown was being touted as the #1 WR in the 2019 draft class. Once he was attached to the Titans the hype died down. 

Yep. He fell really far after that. 

 

[kittenmittens]

Its interesting that a few athletic drills make people forget about a resume of drops and fumbles

It is a bit of double counting because we knew he was going to be fast.  I did not expect that 3 Cone though. 

The drops and fumbles are a bit overplayed though I think.  It's pretty common for that to be a knock on a prospect at this stage and it seems pretty rare that it's a big problem in the NFL for those players. 

 

[Faust]

Next Gen Stats @NextGenStats

Jonathan Taylor and Saquon Barkley are the only two running backs over 225 pounds to run faster than 4.40 in the 40-yard dash since 2014.

Jonathan Taylor: 4.39 @ 226 lbs

Saquon Barkley: 4.40 @ 233 lbs

https://twitter.com/nextgenstats/status/1233607839060414464?s=21

Next Gen Stats @NextGenStats

With the 2020 #NFLCombine running back results in the books, Jonathan Taylor officially joins Saquon Barkley, Ezekiel Elliott, Christian McCaffrey and Nick Chubb in the Top 5 Overall Draft Scores over the last five draft classes.

https://twitter.com/nextgenstats/status/1233610018194223105?s=21

 

[Pipes]

Waldman, I think it was, breaks it down quite well that he fumbles largely due to his technique with how he takes hits and the way he positions himself when he fights for more yardage. It was quite interesting. When its technique it's far more alarming to me.

The drops are concerning as well. So he can catch a few passes without pads or defenders... butbhe has shown to drop (a large percent of) passes throw his way during live action. 

He got a bump after the combine, aka a track event, because some people apparently never knew he was a top track athlete... because of they did know this theyd have figured hed test well. 

Where are you getting he drops a large percentages of passes thrown to him from?  He had a few but thought he did pretty well considering Wisconsin never threw him the ball until this past season.  He’s still raw and developing in this area imo.

 

[Pipes]

I believe he had 8 drops. that's a lot, especially when wisconsin never threw him the ball until this past season 

I consider him a work in progress in that caregory since he was never featured as a receiving back at Wisconsin.  Melvin Gordon has the exact same knock and he turned out to be a pretty good receiving back in the NFL.

 

[mcd]

Why Taylor is Overrated

Yeah, I like how the guy quotes his "lack of speed," as one of his reasons he will bust.

 

[Pipes]

Yeah, I like how the guy quotes his "lack of speed," as one of his reasons he will bust.

Yeah that article is dumb.  Athletically Montee Ball couldn’t carry Taylor’s jock.  The only legitimate knock on Taylor is the fumbles and yes it’s a bit concerning but it’s been brought up most of those happen when fighting for that extra yard.  Something he needs to work on for sure.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I'm marking Dan down as a "No".

 

[King of the Jungle]

What puts him above Swift for you? 

I was kidding based on the combine results. Honestly I don’t know who I have where at this point. Don’t remember being as confused as I am about a draft class as I am this one. Thought at the beginning of the year we were looking at a historic amount of elite-potential players. Now I am not sure who I like. It will come down to where these guys get drafted and when for me.

 

[Pipes]

It's just interesting how a track event push these legitimate concerns to the "meh" category for some. But, it is combine season, so...

I'm not a huge fan of how Waldman breaks down WRs, but his RB break down is interesting and highlights traits with Taylor that are concerning. He even calls him a 2 down back... 

He actually mentions his struggles in the pass pro game too, at 25:25 but he ran a 4.39 and had a nice cone drill, so I guess it doesnt matter to discuss it

I'm not saying he is a bad back, just that people are overreacting to scores we knew Taylor would get, and flat out ignoring the red flags

Many people didn’t think he’d put up a 4.39.  Many have said he looks slow so this combine does prove something.

 

[Pipes]

And yeah the fumbling is a legit concern along with his inexperience in the passing game.  I don’t think anyone is vaulting Taylor into the mid 1st round of the actual NFL.  All this does is show us athletically he compares favorably with the other top RBs we’ll be deciding between in our fantasy drafts.

 

[Pipes]

Dynasty Blueprint Podcast: Jonathan Taylor

IMO a fair analysis of JT and pretty much where I stand.

I did not realize he fumbled on average every other game. How that can be ignored is staggering. 

Also, he points out how often JT was not in on 3rd downs for WI unless it was a designed quick dump off. 

I'm not sure where I have him right now, as it is difficult and the NFL draft will sort out a lot, but the hype is a little out of control. Maybe i was the only one who expected him to run a 4.39...

Who’s ignoring it?  All of the RBs have warts and fumbling is Taylor’s.  Nothing’s changed. I guess I’m not seeing the “hype” that you are other than Taylor had a great combine but ultimately I don’t think it changes his draft stock all that much.

 

[kittenmittens]

He was a track guy, with his track times we should have all expected the 40 time. 

I don't think you can truly judge a Wisconsin back's pass catching ability based on the Wisconsin offense. 

For one, Taylor was already getting so much usage that having him in on 3rd downs would be causing people to complain about the tread left on his tires.  They already are. 

Secondly, Wisconsin just doesn't use their backs to catch passes as part of their offense.  Maybe they are changing that recently, but we were not sure if James White and Melvin Gordon were great receivers either. 

 

[32 Counter Pass]

I recall hearing the same concern about Miles Sanders last year. Anyone still beating that drum?

 

[Pipes]

In 2013, RBs accounted for 21% of the passing offense... and James White had 87% of that share.

In 2014, it was the same percent of offense at 20%, with Gordon accounting for 53% of those receptions

2015, 22%, Dare had 64%...

2016 23% with Dare at 52%

2017, 17% with Taylor taking 22%

2018, 22% with Taylor getting 20%

2019, 29% for the RBs and 38% of that was JT... 

*Groschek out caught JT in 2018 and 2019
 

The only other lead rusher for WI to not lead the RBs in reception percent was Corey Clement in 2016

2019 was an abnormally large rb usage in the passing game year for WI, yet JT still had the 2nd most receptions among RBs on the roster. That is telling to me... he is so good with the ball in his hands... there had to be a reason.
 

Maybe I’m making an issue over nothing, but this is a question people seem to answer with, “well, WI doesn’t use their RBs in the passing game.” But it doesn’t seem very true, and even if 20-23% is low by college standards, why can’t he get 50% or more of the RB receptions? Nothing to see here? Really?

Melvin Gordon didn’t catch many balls as a Badger and is a decent receiving NFL back. The fumbling is a much larger concern imo.

 

[Pipes]

Gordon had 53% of the RB receptions in his final year... once White left... Taylor couldn’t even lead the RBs much less get 50% That’s exactly my point here...

people want to point to Gordon, but comparatively speaking Taylor was far less used than even Gordon was

?  Gordon best receiving season with the Badgers he caught 19 passes.  Taylor caught 26 passes this year.  My point is people were knocking Gordon big time o that and he turned out fine.  And Taylor won’t be drafted anywhere near as high as Gordon was.

 

[Pipes]

He was 3rd on the team that year. They completed 177 passes

2019 WI completed 256

Raw numbers don’t tell the complete story

Neither do percentages.  Whatever Gordon was not a more accomplished receiver in college than Taylor both were works in progress at draft time.

 

[Pipes]

People can ignore this and just keep watching his 40 and cone drills... but youd better feel good about the answer to that question if you are taking him 1.01

Not necessarily.  Even if he’s a 2 down back it’s about the touches.  What if he ends up with the Texans?  He could easily get 2O touches a games in that offense and make a strong case for the first RB taken.
 I don’t think people are elevating him because of the combine it’s just talk at this point.  It’s Feb and not much going on right now so people are excited about combine numbers.  I think you’re making a bigger deal about it than the pro Taylor camp is.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

He was 3rd on the team that year. They completed 177 passes

2019 WI completed 256

They also threw to their RBs way more in 2019, but why wasn’t Taylor the benefactor of that game plan? Why did he only get 38% of the RBs receptions?

Raw numbers don’t tell the complete story

Taylor had 25 touches a game.  He occasionally needs a breather.  He's more valuable as a runner so of course they are gonna use his touches there and let him rest a bit on 3rd and mid/long situations.

That doesn't mean he's bad as a receiver.  He did fine as a receiver last season.

 

[ffmail4me]

Is this guy a faster Alfred Morris?? I'm so confused 

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Did Alfred Morris' college career look like this? The dude AVERAGED over 2,000 yds a season. 

						Rushing				Receiving				Scrimmage			
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
*2017	Wisconsin	Big Ten	FR	RB	14	299	1977	6.6	13	8	95	11.9	0	307	2072	6.7	13
*2018	Wisconsin	Big Ten	SO	RB	13	307	2194	7.1	16	8	60	7.5	0	315	2254	7.2	16
*2019	Wisconsin	Big Ten	JR	RB	14	320	2003	6.3	21	26	252	9.7	5	346	2255	6.5	26
Career	Wisconsin					926	6174	6.7	50	42	407	9.7	5	968	6581	6.8	55

 

[menobrown]

Not necessarily.  Even if he’s a 2 down back it’s about the touches. 

Since this is a fantasy message board how he gets the touches does matter. Especially in PPR but even non-PPR it's a lot easier getting yards in the passing game per touch then on the ground.  It's like something I posted in a thread a few days ago regarding Ekeler. Based solely on last years stats he'd need to average 27 carries a game to hit the same fantasy points he got on 6.75 targets/5.75 catches a game.

Whether or not he has skill set to catch the ball has been discussed to death. We'll see, I'm not saying he can't be and I like to use Fournette as example because I don't think anyone saw that coming from him. But one thing is 100% for certain, all touches are not equal in fantasy football.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I did not realize he fumbled on average every other game. How that can be ignored is staggering. 

It just doesn't usually end up mattering.  Every single prospect I can think of that had fumble issues as a huge knock on them ended up having little to no problems with fumbles in the NFL.  It's just so easily coached out.

Worst fumble rate from each of the last four classes (touches per fumble):

Jonathan Taylor - 53.8
Miles Sanders - 34.6
Sony Michel - 54.6
Dalvin Cook - 58.9

 

[Dr. Octopus]

It's just interesting how a track event push these legitimate concerns to the "meh" category for some. But, it is combine season, so...

You seem to be the one creating this straw man so that you can knock it down. I haven’t seen many people overhyping Taylor based on the combine, and like you said most people had him pegged as one of the faster RBs in this class.

He was my no. 2 RB pre-combine and still is. I’ve seen him catch enough passes to know he can do it and as far as his fumbling issues, while I would have some concerns that he gets benched early as a rookie if it’s continues - the NFL has a way of working with these kids and 99% of the time it does not become an issue. Who was the last very good RB to lose a job due to fumbles?

I think there are 5-6 RBs in this class that can get the job done, and well, at the next level. Landing spots will help separated rookie draft order.

 

[Ilov80s]

Is this guy a faster Alfred Morris?? I'm so confused 

Christine Michael 2 point 0 

 

[Faust]

Simulcam: Wisconsin Badgers running back Jonathan Taylor goes neck and neck with New York Giants RB Saquon Barkley, Dallas Cowboys RB Ezekiel Elliott

Simulcam: Wisconsin Badgers running back Jonathan Taylor pulls away from Atlanta Falcons wide receiver Julio Jones, Cleveland Browns WR Odell Beckham Jr. and Houston Texans WR DeAndre Hopkins

 

[Faust]

LaDainian Tomlinson shows how Wisconsin running back Jonathan Taylor's 40-yard dash technique stands apart

 

[JohnnyU]

Christine Michael 2 point 0 

Really?  

 

[kittenmittens]

Christine Michael?  Seriously I think we are getting a little out of control here. 

Totally similar production profile.... If you compare one year of Taylor to Michael's entire 4 year college career. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

 

[kittenmittens]

One of the PFF guys was saying that Taylors yards per route run is the highest in the class. 

I'm still waiting on draft capital and landing spot to really break the tie here.  Swift had a good combine too. 

Dobbins was still injured?  I had Swift and Taylor ahead so they will stay there until we see more. 

 

[az_prof]

The combination of his college production, size and speed is elite.  He will be a first round pick for sure--the only question is whether he is the first back off the board or not.

 

[Ilov80s]

Really?  

God no, was just kidding around. 

 

[ffmail4me]

So let's say for the sake of argument he's the #1RB after you compare combine and his body of work in college... but Akers, Swift, or Taylor end up in KC. Is Taylor STILL the #1 RB in your draft? While we can make mistakes focusing too much on present team makeup (like those that let AJ Brown fall last year in rookie drafts) its hard to ignore great systems sometimes isn't it?  

 

[menobrown]

So let's say for the sake of argument he's the #1RB after you compare combine and his body of work in college... but Akers, Swift, or Taylor end up in KC. Is Taylor STILL the #1 RB in your draft?

Of course not and that's why these definitive statements people are throwing around like he's the 1.1 should be taken as having close to no merit.  As well as those definitive statements that he's the clear cut top RB in this draft for real NFL teams but that's sort of another subject.

He could be all of those things, the 1.1 and top RB taken in the draft but people are getting way to caught up in the moment right now making these kind of opinion statements like they are fact. This draft  just does not have the easy button Barkley or Elliot 1.1 right now as much as people want that to be the case. And in my opinion NFL teams don't have a consensus top RB on their boards either.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Almost no way it could be as deep overall but the top rb discussion reminds me of 2017 Fournette, CMC, Cook and Mixon going 1-4 in some order. Kamara, Hunt lurking in the first.

 

[Zyphros]

I woke up with the realization I might have to make 2 separate rankings.  1 being how I view them, 1 being how the market views them.  Not sure which I would end up drafting from.  

 

[zeeshan2]

Jonathan Taylor views himself in the class of Todd Gurley, Ezekiel Elliott, Saquon Barkley entering NFL

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001104940/article/jonathan-taylor-compares-himself-to-zeke-others

 

[Faust]

The 1.01 in 2020 Fantasy Rookie Drafts is Jonathan Taylor

 

[Faust]

Jonathan Taylor Is A Production Machine (2020 NFL Draft)

 

[Faust]

NFL Media's Lance Zierlein compares Wisconsin RB Jonathan Taylor to former pro RB Ryan Mathews, albeit with durability.

Taylor (5'10/226) carried the ball a lot during his three seasons at Wisconsin, which can be an issue for some when it comes to his potential at the next level. But the good news is that he managed to stay healthy, which isn't easy to do when running in a bruising offense like the one used by the Badgers. "He's more body puncher than knockout artist, wearing down his opponents with carry after carry. His traits, toughness and talent should make him an early starter with a solid ceiling and more third-down potential than we saw at Wisconsin," Zierlein wrote in his analysis of Taylor, who could go as high as the second round come April.

SOURCE: NFL.com

Mar 9, 2020, 11:11 AM ET