To be fair, pretty much everyone thought the Kmet deal was dumb. Its tough to use the example of, "this one crappy team did this, so why not you too?"
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RB Jonathan Taylor, IND (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Agreed. Many want to blame the "greedy owners", but it doesn't make any sense- they aren't pocketing this money, it's just going to other players who play other positions. There's no difference to an owner if they pay Cole Kmet $32 million guaranteed and JT $15 mil or Cole Kmet $15 mil and JT $32 mil.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
It’s what the players union negotiated for their players.
styleride85
Footballguy
wow that's good news
LawFitz
Footballguy
Wut
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Great way to start my morning.
That's from a video on his instagram story.
It's not much, but better than the absolutely nothing he's shown physically all off-season.
It's not much, but better than the absolutely nothing he's shown physically all off-season.
Why? His ankle is fine and has been. This is part of his "rehab" routine he's been mandated by the Colts to to do every day. He apparently comes in early, gets his rehab done and otherwise has as limited involvement with the team as he possibly can.
The Colts did not put out that video and I'm pretty sure had zero to do with the "news" last week he'd be able to pass his physical in 4 weeks. This is all Taylor trying to let other teams know his ankle is fine while simultaneously forcing the Colts to put him on PUP because he says his ankle did not feel well.
He has to stop playing the ankle is hurt card and get off PUP by week 6. I'd sure not bet against something else will come up later but that's the expiration date on that play and he's trying to get messaging out to teams he's good to go.
I keep saying and I'll say it again, and I want people to know I was busy buying Taylor at the dip so I want this to work out. But what I keep hammering is this only is going to work out for those of us invested in Taylor if he gets traded or something is done with his contract. This is just not going to work out in Indy this year on that contract.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Although I basically agree with everything your stating I will say many an athlete has returned to the same team after drama like this. To say it just simply won't work seems harsh. Let's say it has a 2% chance of working.
styleride85
Footballguy
nah, mate. He's gonna be a colt week 5.
Sure but I just said he wants out, which everyone knows. I did not say anywhere a trade was imminent. I'm just saying his ankle's been fine and his time is about up on using that excuse and if a trade or something with is contract to appease him does not eventually go down things won't end well for fantasy purposes. Might pop off some good games before the deadline, even I'd bet on that, it's what happens if he's still on the roster after the trade deadline when I fully expect things go south in a hurry.
Seems optimistic
Tempted to try and trade for JT.
Taylor owner is soon to be 0-2 and owns C. Kupp, A. Jones, S. Barkley, C. Watson. Decimated. Could be out of he doesn't get warm bodies in the lineup.
What would be Taylor's worth at this point?
There's no guarantee he comes off IR and there's no guarantee he even plays again this year.
As the owner of Z. Moss, I wouldn't mind buying low here. Wonder if a K. Herbert would do it.
Taylor owner is soon to be 0-2 and owns C. Kupp, A. Jones, S. Barkley, C. Watson. Decimated. Could be out of he doesn't get warm bodies in the lineup.
What would be Taylor's worth at this point?
There's no guarantee he comes off IR and there's no guarantee he even plays again this year.
As the owner of Z. Moss, I wouldn't mind buying low here. Wonder if a K. Herbert would do it.
No sir, those things are very much guaranteed to happen.
ETA-I should clarify the coming off IR part is guaranteed to happen. What happens when he's forced to come off PUP/IR to accrue a season and he's still a Colt should be highly interesting and I'm on record as saying it won't go well. Especially if he's on the team past the trade deadline.
As someone who has Ekeler, Taylor, Kupp, and Watson in 1 league. Herbert wouldn't even be close for me.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
Good question. I definitely like the gamble on JT (and I drafted him in a redraft.) I think a player ranked around #21-30 now is a fair value considering the risks.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Ya. About the only two things we know for sure. Dude isn't giving up millions of dollars to prove a point. It's easy to say. Damn hard to do.
Top 21-30 overall? Or RBs ranked 21-30?
No way I'd give up a top 30 guy for him now.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
Of a WR or RB in the 21-30 range for their position.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
It's exactly this. Look around the room and blame your friends kinda situation. Additionally, it's a position that doesn't take much synergy. QB and WR are connected but RB is pretty straight forward. See hole. Hit hole. Granted, some are better at it than others but there are as many good mid-round RBs as 1st/2nd round RBs in the NFL.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
Off to Cleveland soon?
And so many injuries. I understand that makes them want to get their money even sooner, but it also makes owners/GMs less willing to dish it out. I don't know if there's a way to bridge the divide.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
So now Baltimore and Cleveland are down their starting RBs. Except Baltimore has been down Dobbins for like 4 years now and they just always roll with Gus/Justice. *If* anyone out there is serious about wanting to move for Taylor, this may drive the price a little (or move the clock up which has the same effect). Two AFC North competitors compounds that.
But it really does seem more and more like JT has been feigning this thing and it might not matter if that is true or not, because perception is reality. Which is why it's possible nobody makes a move because a player that feigns doesn't get paid. And nobody is going to meet Indy's price.
And I swear to God that when he comes off IR if he doesn't get traded, I'm not sure they decide to ever put him on the active roster. I'm definitely with @menobrown and have been all along that the only way he becomes FF relevant is if he is traded. And I'm not feeling great about the odds.
What it takes is someone to say JT can help us win. That isn't going to be Baltimore but mmmmmmaybe Cleveland. No idea their draft capital or salary cap flexibility etc. But the perception that he quit on his team, feigning injury, etc., is not good for him on any level.
But it really does seem more and more like JT has been feigning this thing and it might not matter if that is true or not, because perception is reality. Which is why it's possible nobody makes a move because a player that feigns doesn't get paid. And nobody is going to meet Indy's price.
And I swear to God that when he comes off IR if he doesn't get traded, I'm not sure they decide to ever put him on the active roster. I'm definitely with @menobrown and have been all along that the only way he becomes FF relevant is if he is traded. And I'm not feeling great about the odds.
What it takes is someone to say JT can help us win. That isn't going to be Baltimore but mmmmmmaybe Cleveland. No idea their draft capital or salary cap flexibility etc. But the perception that he quit on his team, feigning injury, etc., is not good for him on any level.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
At the end of the day, JT wants a new contract and I don't see any team, in today's RB climate, making that happen before he plays some games for that new team.
He is in a precarious spot because why trade away a 2nd or 3rd round pick to the Colts and get sacked with that contract, when he's clearly going to walk after this year. Irsay and the FO of the Colts seem like fools for not accepting some sort of trade, because he's going to leave for nothing.
Based on everything we have seen and some of the RB play this year... there is a need for JT but I can't see doing anything more than a 3rd round pick (which still seems high).
He is in a precarious spot because why trade away a 2nd or 3rd round pick to the Colts and get sacked with that contract, when he's clearly going to walk after this year. Irsay and the FO of the Colts seem like fools for not accepting some sort of trade, because he's going to leave for nothing.
Based on everything we have seen and some of the RB play this year... there is a need for JT but I can't see doing anything more than a 3rd round pick (which still seems high).
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Jerome Ford looks fantastic. Just plug and play. He can come out and play good this year and take back to back tags. TBH, that’s prob his best financial bet. He takes the tag next year, even if he gets hurt, he could still get $4-$5mm the following year. A floor of $14-$15mm over 2 isn’t the end of the world, imo.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
Reportedly both Green Bay and Miami were ready to give him a new contract with significant money
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
Does anyone know if JT attended the game last week? Or even what he’s doing on a day to day basis? Is he training with the team or by himself?
No he did not attend the game and Stiechen say he does not want to answer if he's going to Baltimore this week(spoiler alert, he's not) or for that matter answer any specific question on Taylor going forward.
I thought the last two days with Hunt signing and Akers getting basiclally put on glorified waivers and picked up was a good assist for Taylor's chances of getting traded. Of course those RB's are not on his level but it's still good to see two possibly viable RB replacements for needy teams removed from the market.
As a sign of the current landscape of available RB's when the Ravens had to bring in RB's for a tryout this week with Hill's injury they brought in James Robinson, Ronald Jones and Drake who they signed and will likely make active this week. If at one point it looked like there was a decent RB available on every corner it's now a ghost town.
My point being injuries will continue to mount across the league and the events of this week just enhanced the odds of a team suffering an injury to a RB making a move for someone like Taylor. I don't think the contract stuff will need to be worked out at this point either. I think Taylor will play for anyone else. The acquiring team just has to be comfortable with fact they might have to part with a 2 and change type of deal for a one year rental with decent odds of getting back a 2025 third round comp pick.
As a sign of the current landscape of available RB's when the Ravens had to bring in RB's for a tryout this week with Hill's injury they brought in James Robinson, Ronald Jones and Drake who they signed and will likely make active this week. If at one point it looked like there was a decent RB available on every corner it's now a ghost town.
My point being injuries will continue to mount across the league and the events of this week just enhanced the odds of a team suffering an injury to a RB making a move for someone like Taylor. I don't think the contract stuff will need to be worked out at this point either. I think Taylor will play for anyone else. The acquiring team just has to be comfortable with fact they might have to part with a 2 and change type of deal for a one year rental with decent odds of getting back a 2025 third round comp pick.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
Thanks for these comments. Good perspective.
I hope there is more clarity in the next few weeks.
I think these are very different markets. Anyone who is looking to plug a hole with a guy like Hunt, James Robinson, etc. isn't really in the JT market, and I don't see anyone being willing to part with a 2nd round pick and change for a 3/4 yr. rental (if he would even be willing to play under his current deal, still a complete unknown).
Put it this way, I don't think anyone is going to shift their focus to JT just because the break glass in case of emergency RBs are all gone (not that they are, still have a couple out there). I think he's in a different category, and that category still has a very limited market.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
In going with your argument, which team situations do you think might be in the market for JTaylor?
Yeah Herbert isnt likely the best rb in chicago.
Birdie048
Footballguy
I made an offer for JT. Thinking he could use "a RB Now" vs RB in 2024 theory ....
I proposed Kyren Williams /Zach Evans LAR RB + Terry McLaurin plus a mid-2024 2nd
He countered with Kyren Williams, Kendre Miller NOS RB, McLaurin and 2 x 2024 2nds ....
So, the idea that Chic RB Herbert gets it done is not realistic, in my league anyway.
I have not seen any JT trades to know what it takes... but I think that was too rich in his counter. Still pending but not likely accepting.
I got nothing to reply or add to this because I feel like every single issue and concern you are arguing against I already acknowledged in my initial post. This is called just not agreeing.
TVT 0 N S T A
Footballguy
Yeah, I don't think any of this impacts the JT scenario...
The fact remains, he still costs a 2nd round pick + a large contract if you want him long-term. Maybe teams feel confident they can draft a high calibur RB with a 2nd round pick (which is probably accurate). The Colts get a 3rd round compensatory pick if he stays... I'm not sure how he gets moved. The only situation that would make any sense is star gets injured, team has zero depth behind star, they trade for JT because the star RB has a cheap or expiring contract and they have flexibility to deal with long-term JT contract talks.
ESPN wrote a piece today behind their paywall (which I just cancelled when I canceled Disney and forgot that was part of the package so could not read it) about possible trades for Taylor and I think they listed KC, Steelers and Dolphins and made up some fake "make sense" to them trades. I think, can't read it to be sure. I don't know, nothing would surprise me especially as injuries continue to occur.
I'm just going to say I do think he will be traded to someone. This has nothing to do with his talent when I say that I think the Colts will view it as addition by subtraction. New coach, trying to build something, and off to a really promising start IMO, and I think ultimately getting back some comp and removing a malcontent who clearly does not want to be there will be the path that the Colts will want to take. Stiechen already sounds tired of this stuff.
I feel like this entire situation has been kept close to the vest so it's really hard to say without knowing what each party is looking for. IF JT is looking for a market-setting deal, AND IF Indy is holding out for a ~1st, there's essentially zero chance a deal gets done IMO. Even if only 1 of those is true it seems very unlikely a deal gets done. But again, we really have no idea. Earlier in this saga someone said that this wasn't about the Colts, it was purely money, and I wasn't so sure. Obviously money is a big factor, but I thought maybe things had soured enough where JT would be willing to take a lesser deal just to get out of there. But again, who really knows?
There's also a difference between who I think should be in the market and who I think might be in the market. I think teams like KC, Philly, Baltimore, Miami, and Minnesota should be in the market, pending asking price- basically teams with post season aspirations without great RBs. Some of those I wouldn't expect it though because it just isn't their MO, and really the only teams who reportedly were moderately interested were Miami and GB. Doesn't seem like they got anywhere close to a deal though, so someone's going to have to lose the game of chicken. Cleveland makes a lot of sense to me post Chubb, but they just signed Hunt, are a bit light on draft capital, and have cap issues beyond this year. Other teams could become interested if they experience an injury.
So, long winded way of saying we really have no idea, but it didn't appear that any teams were really "in" the initial market for him. Maybe (hopefully) that market has come down some now and something can get done.
Cool. We agree that we disagree.
IMO it's the combination- the RB market is deflated, so while I think some teams would be interested in either giving up decent draft capital or a decent (but not outrageous) contract, I can't see any team doing both, and the initial lack of interest seems to back that up. We just don't know how much either side is willing to stick to their guns, but if both are, it's going to suck lol.
Yeah, an injury could definitely open things up, but I agree that it's going to have to be a specific set of circumstances like you mentioned. Cleveland seems to be a good fit- Chubb's injury is obviously devastating and he has no guaranteed money left. Still haven't seen details of Hunt's contract but guessing it wouldn't be prohibitive if they wanted to pursue it. No 1st rounder but do have a 2nd and 3rd, and they've obviously been willing to deal picks in the past.
But without at least one party lowering their demands quite a bit, it's hard to be optimistic that he's going to be traded.
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I think your offer was more than generous for a rb that may or may not play this year. The counter was rediculous. I would recounter with far less than you offered the first time.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
I would not have made that initial offer. Taylor has too many issues for me.
archive.md lets you read any article behind a paywall for free.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I sent out offers this week, but it seems everyone still values him like it's 2021 for some reason. Even if / when he's healthy, there's the added risk with his attitude and he may not help teams much this year. I was probably done a favor with the rejections and I made some solid offers.
Birdie048
Footballguy
I understand the concerns, but I was targeting 2024 to be a Title Competitive team. I project 2023 to be a "maybe make playoffs if things fall right"... not a Title worthy roster.
I felt JT in 2024 would have all these issues resolved and be able to regain his production (either elsewhere or whatever).
But yes, he does have serious baggage today. I hope he has lighter travel plans in the future ... my effort to "buy low" was rebuked.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
I own him in my one league. Zero percent change I move him. None of us know how this plays out. If he comes back week 5 and looks healthy his value massively increases. To move him now for Pacheco and a pick before that bump in value is silly.
Yea he is definitely an enigma at this point. But if he pans out as your RB 3 on your roster he immediately has league winning upside.
