FarFromHome
Footballguy
Just denied Lockett for Taylor straight up. I'd imagine this next week I'll get more and more offers
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RB Jonathan Taylor, IND (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Okay, then if he isn't hurt then how is he on PUP list? Is he in cahoots with the Colts?
Can't he say "I'm not hurt"? Like am I missing something? Did he get hurt after they tried to trade him? Was his injury a deterrent?
If the answer is, "he wasn't hurt" then how does he end up on PUP list? Sorry if I'm being slow. But to me either Colts were trying to trade a hurt player or Jonathan Taylor and the Colts are colluding about a fake injury to get him on PUP list.
Am I missing some vital piece of information here? Healthy enough to trade, hurt enough to put on PUP? They were asking for a 1st Rounder for a guy who is hurt enough to go on the PUP list? Was PUP list a punishment or an agreement between both parties?
Can't he say "I'm not hurt"? Like am I missing something? Did he get hurt after they tried to trade him? Was his injury a deterrent?
If the answer is, "he wasn't hurt" then how does he end up on PUP list? Sorry if I'm being slow. But to me either Colts were trying to trade a hurt player or Jonathan Taylor and the Colts are colluding about a fake injury to get him on PUP list.
Am I missing some vital piece of information here? Healthy enough to trade, hurt enough to put on PUP? They were asking for a 1st Rounder for a guy who is hurt enough to go on the PUP list? Was PUP list a punishment or an agreement between both parties?
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FarFromHome
Footballguy
Well. He did have ankle surgery in late January. That created some wiggle room to be put on IR.
Weebs210
Footballguy
That is borderline disrespectful and I would counter with my kicker for their best player.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
So refreshing to open this thread and read a clear direct path for when to expect production from JT
The Kerminator
Footballguy
I got an offer of Mosert and Godwin for Taylor and AJ Brown. Seems other owners are banking on JT owners panicking.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Honestly. I'd actually pass on Mosert and Godwin for just Taylor.
Weebs210
Footballguy
Double glass men for JT and AJ lol
No one here knows. Meno has a reasonably plausible theory, but unless he's part of JT's inner circle he's just speculating like everyone else. Same goes for how this is all going to play out.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I think people are looking at things logically instead of procedurally. The Colts placed Taylor on the PUP list to start training camp. That meant a couple of things: 1) he could not practice in training camp, 2) he could come off the list at any time in training camp whenever the the Colts chose to activate him, 3) and at the end of training camp, the Colts could leave him on the PUP list and he would miss 4 games. That last part is automatic . . . since he was not activated, his status on the PUP list remained unchanged. To the best of my knowledge, there is no clause or requirement for a team to prove a player is injured to remain on the PUP list. The Colts followed the rules and procedure to get Taylor on the PUP list as stated in the CBA. He can't really file a grievance with the NFLPA, as the Colts followed the rules that were collectively bargained. I am speaking in labor law terms. Taylor gets full pay for the games he is missing, so he doesn't have grounds to file a grievance. I suppose he could, but he would have nothing to gain. The Colts had the ability to trade him at any point. After Week 4, IND can either decide to take him off the PUP list or move him to IR (or another designation if he refuses to play for the Colts). IIRC, they have 5 weeks from the end of Week 4 to decide what to do with him. Once they take him off of the PUP list, they have 3 weeks to decide to add him to the active roster, trade him, or release him. My memory is fuzzy on whether they can put him on IR once they decide to take him off of the PUP list. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of good resources to search for this type of stuff.
Make sense. But my God, what a wacky scenario. If he ends up playing for the Colts this year everything you wrote, all the nonsense all season, and the final result?
Taylor misses games for no reason and plays for the Colts anyway. Because surely if he was healthy enough to trade, he was healthy enough to be on a pitch count and contribute. But Taylor made it clear he didn't want to be there under that contract, so to Colts that roster spot is more valuable.
I guess my next question is, can he stay on PUP indefinitely? That would be my guess, because the prospect of him suiting up and playing for the Colts after all this nonsense is the most hilarious outcome ever. No pay raise, no trade, and he comes back with his tail between his legs?
All that we're missing if he returns to the Colts is a Tweet apologizing to Jim Irsay and the city of Indianapolis promising to be a better teammate going forward.
Him caving and playing for Indy would be a chef's kiss of this entire situation.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
To reiterate, once Week 4 is over, the Colts have 5 weeks to decide what they are doing with Taylor. Once they decide to activate him, they have 3 weeks to put him on their regular roster. Theoretically, that means the range of outcomes would be playing anywhere from Weeks 5 to 13 if the Colts wanted to drag things out. That would be long past the trading deadline, and they would have to pay him every week anyway. The whole thing is odd.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Good info and well said. To piggy back your closing about IR. All NFL contracts are different. In a lot of cases when players get placed on injured reserve they actually lose money. Don't know how these rookie contracts are but Im gonna guess they don't help out rookies who get hurt. So then could they put him on IR if he isn't hurt which would cost him money? Crazy. I have no idea
Anarchy99
Footballguy
This situation came up with the Patriots and one of their many Joneses. NE put him on IR to start the season. His contract has a clause that says the Pats can pay him roughly half his pay if he starts a season on IR. That’s what they did, so in that case it will end up costing him around $200K.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
It's brutal. NFL ain't like the other sports. It's all about that guaranteed money. Just feels like Taylors only path is to smile, say the right things, and play football. For the Colts, it would look petty if they then hard lined, arguably the best player on the team, and didn't let him play. It's gonna be a little awkward but this marriage has to move forward. All my opinion and I reserve the right to change my opinion at any moment.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
A point lost on many. There is a contract and the Colts are in very good position relative to it. This was a contract agreeable to Taylor…until it wasn’t. He doesn’t strike me as having the high ground either legally or ethically here.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
NFL contracts, no matter how long the term is are nothing more than 1 year contracts with team options. Taylor is still on his rookie contract, let's not act like he had any negotiating leverage to either increase term, AAV or guarantees when he was drafted.
Sure, the Colts could franchise him. That seems like a foolish move though. 1.) The Colts aren't in a position to win the Superbowl this year or next. Keeping a disgruntled player in the locker room just because you can is something that could be deleterious to the culture that the new staff is trying to instill; and 2.) The Colts don't appear to value the RB position enough to give Taylor a new contract that would be cheaper against their cap in the short term, so tagging him and having him count at $10M+ in 2024 seems like a waste of cap space. They would be better served to let him walk, get a comp pick, and either draft a guy in round 2 or 3 on the cheap or trade a 4th or 5th for a 1 year rental (see, D'Andre Swift).
JohnnyU
Footballguy
……or he plays and plays well
Man, if Taylor got Zach Moss's role in this offense, he'd be a top-3 RB.
That's not a sentence I was super expecting to say, but hopefully they can get things straightened out. This Colts team is absolutely contending for the AFC South crown, if they can get a couple more big plays on offense.
That's not a sentence I was super expecting to say, but hopefully they can get things straightened out. This Colts team is absolutely contending for the AFC South crown, if they can get a couple more big plays on offense.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Seems like a good first step;
Colts’ RB Jonathan Taylor (ankle) will be activated from the PUP list this week and is scheduled to practice on Wednesday, per HC Shane Steichen.
Colts’ RB Jonathan Taylor (ankle) will be activated from the PUP list this week and is scheduled to practice on Wednesday, per HC Shane Steichen.
Oh boy. Here we go.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Asked whether there was a chance Taylor could play on Sunday against the Tennessee Titans, Steichen said, "Could be, yes."
Steichen said he had a productive conversation with Taylor, who has been at odds with the team over a contract standoff and had previously requested a trade.
"He's excited to get back with his teammates," Steichen said.
Steichen said he had a productive conversation with Taylor, who has been at odds with the team over a contract standoff and had previously requested a trade.
"He's excited to get back with his teammates," Steichen said.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
The right direction is Baltimore. Staying in Indi makes him a questionable weekly start. Moss will not be erased from that offense, and Taylor just needs to find a way to get in his 6 games and get to free agency in one piece. I dont like him as a 2023 fantasy asset at all if he stays in Indi.
massraider
Footballguy
Boy, if you wanna read some **** predictions backed up by nothing, but said with confidence, these last 10 pages are required reading
Banger
Footballguy
Don't see that happening if it hasn't happened by now and Taylor >>>> Moss.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
I like Moss. He has done very well. Dudes a legit NFL RB. Having said that, Taylor is light years more talented then him at every aspect of the game. Light years. At every aspect. Moss after maybe one week becomes a nice hand cuff. The Colts have it's QB of the future, every move should be to put him in a better position to be successful. Taylor puts him in a better position to be successful. We still don't know how this plays out though. Male egos are complicated.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
I could be mistaken but I dont think they could trade him while he was on PUP
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Moss proved to Irsay that he doesnt need Taylor to effectively run the ball. He also proved to Steichen that he deserves touches. JT in Indi is a fantasy disaster IMO. He wont play hard, he is not their future, and he hates the owner with a white hot passion.
satch
Footballguy
Could be that Taylor’s best chance of getting his wish is to play like a superstar for his current team and prove he’s healthy. This may be what other suiters are waiting to see before making a legit trade offer.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
There is a difference between running the ball effectively and hitting home runs. Moss runs effectively, gets whats there while Taylor hits home runs. He adds a dynamic to your offense. Does Steichen want to give the soldier that deserves the touches the ball or the elite guy that can single handedly make your offense explosive? I get your take. If Taylor pouts like a child, which could happen, this gets ugly.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
We are on the same page. I think Moss is the definition of JAG, and Taylor is an elite talent. But what Moss is proving, is precisely the reason Irsay does not want to commit so much money to a RB - you can get by with JAG and pour your cap money elsewhere. Sure, there are more home runs with JT back there, but to put him back there Irsay will have to pull cash from somewhere else - somewhere where maybe you cannot cover it up so well with JAG.
JT only needs to play in 6 games. Yes, great for him to put some great runs on tape. But better for him to not end up next to JK Dobbins in a rehab facility.
FarFromHome
Footballguy
Agreed. If u bring Irsay into the picture then it feels like the narrative changes. I'd assume what Steichen would like from his rbs and what Irsay wants are very different. Ha ha. Good discussion man.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
I have JT in the only dynasty league I even care about - and I really care about that one. I love him for 2024 and beyond and if he is traded, I will be psyched about him this season. If he stays in Indi, I will struggle to start him over Jerome Ford (but I will overcome that struggle).
So if Moss is proving why Irsay doesn't want to pay Taylor, wouldn't it be possible that Irsay steps in and slows down JT getting on the field?
I'd think he'd want him on the field to increase his trade value?
Would be interesting to be in that guys head right now. Assuming he's not on ten different hallucinogenic drugs.
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
My hunch at this point is that Taylor will be the lead back for the rest of the year with around twenty touches a game. Since he’s elite and he is healthy and he is in his fourth year with the team, I think that starts on Sunday. I don‘t see anything that limits this for week five.
Wrigley
Footballguy
How about not having a carry/being hit since DECEMBER
taylormeetstheismann
Footballguy
Presuming he is healthy right now, I don’t believe that makes as much difference as it might seem.
Wrigley
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Good job!
-I'm sure Indy knows the same thing, I wouldn't assume Taylor is getting 20 carries a game, they likely will split with Moss until Taylor makes it easy to give him the full load
Anyone that feels Moss is anywhere close to Taylor and will somehow keep Taylor on the bench is smoking Fruit Loops
1st Week- 10 carries, 12 touches
2nd Week- 15 touches, mix n match
3rd Week- assuming no set backs you will see him start nudging more towards 20 touches a game
I might be way off but the Colts are not going to be the same with Moss as they would be with a healthy and in shape JT
-Trend from MoP...when players are away for 4-5 weeks and there is an injury, suddenly there is a new Sheriff in town...BALONEY I say
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BoltNlava
Footballguy
Yes but I never argue with a drug addled mind. There appears to be no win in this fight- yet here we are.
Can't imagine he's getting 20+ carries his first game back.
Insein
Footballguy
There's two ways this can go.
JT is still in the Colts long term plans so they will limit his carries and ease him in wisely.
Or
JT is NOT in their long term plans so they will give him as many carries as possible and run him into the ground to show case his value.
Guess we'll find out this week.
JT is still in the Colts long term plans so they will limit his carries and ease him in wisely.
Or
JT is NOT in their long term plans so they will give him as many carries as possible and run him into the ground to show case his value.
Guess we'll find out this week.
I don't know where this idea came from that Moss is even playing all that well. He's been ok, that's it. Taylor will have zero issues relating Moss to 6 or fewer weekly touches. Maybe not this week, but certainly in October.
I think the horrific Deon Jackson experience may have made Moss seem a lot better than he is, and I'm a Moss fan going back to Utah. He's not on Taylor's level at anything and is light years behind on explosiveness.
A read option between Richardson/Taylor is a potential TD at any time. Pittman/Downs can beat 1-1 coverage off PA. This is an ascendent offense, hell Richardson was awful for 3 quarters yesterday and they still almost came back and won.
I think the horrific Deon Jackson experience may have made Moss seem a lot better than he is, and I'm a Moss fan going back to Utah. He's not on Taylor's level at anything and is light years behind on explosiveness.
A read option between Richardson/Taylor is a potential TD at any time. Pittman/Downs can beat 1-1 coverage off PA. This is an ascendent offense, hell Richardson was awful for 3 quarters yesterday and they still almost came back and won.
