RB Jonathan Taylor, IND (3 Viewers)

[BearsFan4Life]

I own Taylor .. luxury that he is on my bench, but considering starting him over Collins vs KC in my flex in a standard scoring semifinal

 

[KingPrawn]

So does he redeem himself and bounce back or lose carries for being a bone head?

He didn't lose any carries on Sunday after it happened

 

[Chaka]

So does he redeem himself and bounce back or lose carries for being a bone head?

He didn't lose any carries on Sunday after it happened

Exactly.

There isn't anyone in the roster to lose carries to.

This isn't Gus Edwards v Kimani Vidal or Craig Reynolds v Sione Vaki.

It's Johnathan "freaking" Taylor vs... no one of consequence.

JT made a bonehead play. For goodness sake Jerry Rice, the GOAT of the GOATs, did the exact same thing in 1989 against New Orleans, he was just lucky enough to not have to deal with instant replay.

 

[GoBirds]

So does he redeem himself and bounce back or lose carries for being a bone head?

He didn't lose any carries on Sunday after it happened

Exactly.

There isn't anyone in the roster to lose carries to.

This isn't Gus Edwards v Kimani Vidal or Craig Reynolds v Sione Vaki.

It's Johnathan "freaking" Taylor vs... no one of consequence.

JT made a bonehead play. For goodness sake Jerry Rice, the GOAT of the GOATs, did the exact same thing in 1989 against New Orleans, he was just lucky enough to not have to deal with instant replay.

A Jerry Rice comparison, love it.

I’m plugging in JT and hoping he lives up to the player you see, he’s due for it!

Does anyone know if they have any shot at playoffs still or did blowing that game knock them out?

 

[Chaka]

So does he redeem himself and bounce back or lose carries for being a bone head?

He didn't lose any carries on Sunday after it happened

Exactly.

There isn't anyone in the roster to lose carries to.

This isn't Gus Edwards v Kimani Vidal or Craig Reynolds v Sione Vaki.

It's Johnathan "freaking" Taylor vs... no one of consequence.

JT made a bonehead play. For goodness sake Jerry Rice, the GOAT of the GOATs, did the exact same thing in 1989 against New Orleans, he was just lucky enough to not have to deal with instant replay.

A Jerry Rice comparison, love it.

I’m plugging in JT and hoping he lives up to the player you see, he’s due for it!

Does anyone know if they have any shot at playoffs still or did blowing that game knock them out?

The player I see is getting 20 touches and putting up 94 yards per game.

He's also 25 years old and has a 2,000+ yard, 20 TD season under his belt.

Plenty of lesser knuckleheads have done the exact same thing, several times this season in fact, but the fact that the GOAT GOAT did it as well suggests that maybe people should stop clutching their pearls over JT doing it.

 

[Stoneworker]

So does he redeem himself and bounce back or lose carries for being a bone head?

He didn't lose any carries on Sunday after it happened

Exactly.

There isn't anyone in the roster to lose carries to.

This isn't Gus Edwards v Kimani Vidal or Craig Reynolds v Sione Vaki.

It's Johnathan "freaking" Taylor vs... no one of consequence.

JT made a bonehead play. For goodness sake Jerry Rice, the GOAT of the GOATs, did the exact same thing in 1989 against New Orleans, he was just lucky enough to not have to deal with instant replay.

A Jerry Rice comparison, love it.

I’m plugging in JT and hoping he lives up to the player you see, he’s due for it!

Does anyone know if they have any shot at playoffs still or did blowing that game knock them out?

9% chance of Colts making playoffs

 

[GoBirds]

So does he redeem himself and bounce back or lose carries for being a bone head?

He didn't lose any carries on Sunday after it happened

Exactly.

There isn't anyone in the roster to lose carries to.

This isn't Gus Edwards v Kimani Vidal or Craig Reynolds v Sione Vaki.

It's Johnathan "freaking" Taylor vs... no one of consequence.

JT made a bonehead play. For goodness sake Jerry Rice, the GOAT of the GOATs, did the exact same thing in 1989 against New Orleans, he was just lucky enough to not have to deal with instant replay.

A Jerry Rice comparison, love it.

I’m plugging in JT and hoping he lives up to the player you see, he’s due for it!

Does anyone know if they have any shot at playoffs still or did blowing that game knock them out?

9% chance of Colts making playoffs

Ok good, at least some chance to play for. Let’s hang 3 TDs. Maybe their defense is worth a play too fighting for what’s left of their playoff window.

 

[Faust]

Data reveals just how costly Jonathan Taylor's goal-line fumble was for fantasy football managers

 

[Zow]

Data reveals just how costly Jonathan Taylor's goal-line fumble was for fantasy football managers

My probably strongest team lost on this play - though not for obvious reasons. The touchdown would have reduced my opponent's Denver defense by enough points where I would have won.

 

[LawFitz]

Anyone who lost b/c of JT's brain freeze last weekend probably also lost b/c of some bad managerial decision leading up to that moment. Win as a team, lose as a team. Last I checked he still scored double digits in PPR. Boo to the hoo.

 

[BigTex]

Data reveals just how costly Jonathan Taylor's goal-line fumble was for fantasy football managers

It’s interesting how the NFL was totally against the idea of fantasy football and it’s equally funny how articles being written about how a single play hurt a fantasy manager and not the NFL team.

Tex

 

[ratbast]

Gotta hope he’s embarrassed and begged coach for redemption week!

 

[JohnnyU]

Gotta hope he’s embarrassed and begged coach for redemption week!

Taylor is a high character guy and I could tell he felt terrible. There was no diva action on his part. He simply made a mistake. I’m sure there is no reason for begging for redemption, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a good game.

 

[joey]

Gotta hope he’s embarrassed and begged coach for redemption week!

Taylor is a high character guy and I could tell he felt terrible. There was no diva action on his part. He simply made a mistake. I’m sure there is no reason for begging for redemption, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a good game.

I only saw highlights but he looked TORTURED on the sidelines after the fact.

I have zero concerns with the character and ability of this cat. Plug him into your lineup unless you have another amazing option.

 

[JohnnyU]

Gotta hope he’s embarrassed and begged coach for redemption week!

Taylor is a high character guy and I could tell he felt terrible. There was no diva action on his part. He simply made a mistake. I’m sure there is no reason for begging for redemption, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a good game.

I only saw highlights but he looked TORTURED on the sidelines after the fact.

I have zero concerns with the character and ability of this cat. Plug him into your lineup unless you have another amazing option.

He should feast on that run defense.

 

[BearsFan4Life]

Standard scoring...

Would anyone start JTaylor over ARSB or Collins at Flex?

 

[Uncle Leo]

Standard scoring...

Would anyone start JTaylor over ARSB or Collins at Flex?

No

 

[KingPrawn]

Standard scoring...

Would anyone start JTaylor over ARSB or Collins at Flex?

No to ARSB and yes to Collins

 

[finfansteve]

It’s either him or achane to pair with Gibbs for me this week. Thankfully neither is playing on Thursday night it gives me some time to figure it out

 

[taylormeetstheismann]

If I was a head coach, at the beginning of the next practice, I would lineup the offense with the same game day personnel and without the defense. Then I’d run the same play ten times with JTaylor with one simple instruction. Taylor would be required to run past the goal line, run it through the back of the end zone, and then bring the ball back and hand it to the center to run the play again. Then I would bring in ALL the position players and tell them that I expect them to secure the ball until they see an official with their hands up.

 

[BearsFan4Life]

Standard scoring...

Would anyone start JTaylor over ARSB or Collins at Flex?

No to ARSB and yes to Collins

I am leaning to benching Collins vs KC ... relying on Stroud is tough. I could see Houston getting down and having to throw a ton or at least I hope so as I am playing against Mixon. So torn on what to do .. Paralysis by Analysis at this point.

 

[JohnnyU]

If I was a head coach, at the beginning of the next practice, I would lineup the offense with the same game day personnel and without the defense. Then I’d run the same play ten times with JTaylor with one simple instruction. Taylor would be required to run past the goal line, run it through the back of the end zone, and then bring the ball back and hand it to the center to run the play again. Then I would bring in ALL the position players and tell them that I expect them to secure the ball until they see an official with their hands up.

Treating players like children is foolish and of course childish. All you had to see from Taylor is his expression on the sideline after the mistake. These are professionals and Taylor is a great character guy who made a mistake and I can guarantee you that won't happen again. No need to go any further than that.

 

[taylormeetstheismann]

If I was a head coach, at the beginning of the next practice, I would lineup the offense with the same game day personnel and without the defense. Then I’d run the same play ten times with JTaylor with one simple instruction. Taylor would be required to run past the goal line, run it through the back of the end zone, and then bring the ball back and hand it to the center to run the play again. Then I would bring in ALL the position players and tell them that I expect them to secure the ball until they see an official with their hands up.

Treating players like children is foolish and of course childesh. All you had to see from Taylor is his expression on the sideline after the mistake. These are professionals and Taylor is a great character guy who made a mistake and I can guarantee you that won't happen again. No need to go any further than that.

Well maybe according to you. I’d do drills to correct costly mistakes.

Also, you can’t guarantee anything here. That literally makes no sense. What do I get if you are incorrect and it happens again?

 

[JohnnyU]

If I was a head coach, at the beginning of the next practice, I would lineup the offense with the same game day personnel and without the defense. Then I’d run the same play ten times with JTaylor with one simple instruction. Taylor would be required to run past the goal line, run it through the back of the end zone, and then bring the ball back and hand it to the center to run the play again. Then I would bring in ALL the position players and tell them that I expect them to secure the ball until they see an official with their hands up.

Treating players like children is foolish and of course childesh. All you had to see from Taylor is his expression on the sideline after the mistake. These are professionals and Taylor is a great character guy who made a mistake and I can guarantee you that won't happen again. No need to go any further than that.

Well maybe according to you. I’d do drills to correct costly mistakes.

Also, you can’t guarantee anything here. That literally makes no sense. What do I get if you are incorrect and it happens again?

This isn't high school

 

[RaidersAreOne]

JT going off this weekend. Speak it into existence!

 

[JohnnyU]

JT going off this weekend. Speak it into existence!

Not only can the Titans be run on, Ryan Kelly is back this week. Factor that in with JT being hungry, I can see over 100 yards easily with a TD or two.

 

[taylormeetstheismann]

If I was a head coach, at the beginning of the next practice, I would lineup the offense with the same game day personnel and without the defense. Then I’d run the same play ten times with JTaylor with one simple instruction. Taylor would be required to run past the goal line, run it through the back of the end zone, and then bring the ball back and hand it to the center to run the play again. Then I would bring in ALL the position players and tell them that I expect them to secure the ball until they see an official with their hands up.

Treating players like children is foolish and of course childesh. All you had to see from Taylor is his expression on the sideline after the mistake. These are professionals and Taylor is a great character guy who made a mistake and I can guarantee you that won't happen again. No need to go any further than that.

Well maybe according to you. I’d do drills to correct costly mistakes.

Also, you can’t guarantee anything here. That literally makes no sense. What do I get if you are incorrect and it happens again?

This isn't high school

Why so judgmental?

 

[JohnnyU]

If I was a head coach, at the beginning of the next practice, I would lineup the offense with the same game day personnel and without the defense. Then I’d run the same play ten times with JTaylor with one simple instruction. Taylor would be required to run past the goal line, run it through the back of the end zone, and then bring the ball back and hand it to the center to run the play again. Then I would bring in ALL the position players and tell them that I expect them to secure the ball until they see an official with their hands up.

Treating players like children is foolish and of course childesh. All you had to see from Taylor is his expression on the sideline after the mistake. These are professionals and Taylor is a great character guy who made a mistake and I can guarantee you that won't happen again. No need to go any further than that.

Well maybe according to you. I’d do drills to correct costly mistakes.

Also, you can’t guarantee anything here. That literally makes no sense. What do I get if you are incorrect and it happens again?

This isn't high school

Why so judgmental?

I just feel like your post isn't something you would do in the NFL and certainly not to treat Taylor like a child and embarrass him like that. If you watched the game you could see how embarrassed he was. You can be sensitive and call that being judgemental, but to me it is ridiculous to do what you posted. I apologize if you're triggered by that.

 

[taylormeetstheismann]

If I was a head coach, at the beginning of the next practice, I would lineup the offense with the same game day personnel and without the defense. Then I’d run the same play ten times with JTaylor with one simple instruction. Taylor would be required to run past the goal line, run it through the back of the end zone, and then bring the ball back and hand it to the center to run the play again. Then I would bring in ALL the position players and tell them that I expect them to secure the ball until they see an official with their hands up.

Treating players like children is foolish and of course childesh. All you had to see from Taylor is his expression on the sideline after the mistake. These are professionals and Taylor is a great character guy who made a mistake and I can guarantee you that won't happen again. No need to go any further than that.

Well maybe according to you. I’d do drills to correct costly mistakes.

Also, you can’t guarantee anything here. That literally makes no sense. What do I get if you are incorrect and it happens again?

This isn't high school

Why so judgmental?

I just feel like your post isn't something you would do in the NFL and certainly not to treat Taylor like a child and embarrass him like that. If you watched the game you could see how embarrassed he was. You can be sensitive and call that being judgemental, but to me it is ridiculous to do what you posted. I apologize if you're triggered by that.

Those are opinion words. I have a different opinion.

Your phantom arguments like calling me sensitive or triggered are completely meaningless. Take a hike.

 

[ffmail4me]

Starting with confidence in all leagues I own him

 

[JohnnyU]

If I was a head coach, at the beginning of the next practice, I would lineup the offense with the same game day personnel and without the defense. Then I’d run the same play ten times with JTaylor with one simple instruction. Taylor would be required to run past the goal line, run it through the back of the end zone, and then bring the ball back and hand it to the center to run the play again. Then I would bring in ALL the position players and tell them that I expect them to secure the ball until they see an official with their hands up.

Treating players like children is foolish and of course childesh. All you had to see from Taylor is his expression on the sideline after the mistake. These are professionals and Taylor is a great character guy who made a mistake and I can guarantee you that won't happen again. No need to go any further than that.

Well maybe according to you. I’d do drills to correct costly mistakes.

Also, you can’t guarantee anything here. That literally makes no sense. What do I get if you are incorrect and it happens again?

This isn't high school

Why so judgmental?

I just feel like your post isn't something you would do in the NFL and certainly not to treat Taylor like a child and embarrass him like that. If you watched the game you could see how embarrassed he was. You can be sensitive and call that being judgemental, but to me it is ridiculous to do what you posted. I apologize if you're triggered by that.

Those are opinion words. I have a different opinion.

Your phantom arguments like calling me sensitive or triggered are completely meaningless. Take a hike.

LOL, ok Francis. Sorry you didn't like my bluntess on your proposal of treating Taylor that way in front of his teammates.

 

[taylormeetstheismann]

If I was a head coach, at the beginning of the next practice, I would lineup the offense with the same game day personnel and without the defense. Then I’d run the same play ten times with JTaylor with one simple instruction. Taylor would be required to run past the goal line, run it through the back of the end zone, and then bring the ball back and hand it to the center to run the play again. Then I would bring in ALL the position players and tell them that I expect them to secure the ball until they see an official with their hands up.

Treating players like children is foolish and of course childesh. All you had to see from Taylor is his expression on the sideline after the mistake. These are professionals and Taylor is a great character guy who made a mistake and I can guarantee you that won't happen again. No need to go any further than that.

Well maybe according to you. I’d do drills to correct costly mistakes.

Also, you can’t guarantee anything here. That literally makes no sense. What do I get if you are incorrect and it happens again?

This isn't high school

Why so judgmental?

I just feel like your post isn't something you would do in the NFL and certainly not to treat Taylor like a child and embarrass him like that. If you watched the game you could see how embarrassed he was. You can be sensitive and call that being judgemental, but to me it is ridiculous to do what you posted. I apologize if you're triggered by that.

Those are opinion words. I have a different opinion.

Your phantom arguments like calling me sensitive or triggered are completely meaningless. Take a hike.

LOL, ok Francis. Sorry you didn't like my bluntess on your proposal of treating Taylor that way in front of his teammates.

Name calling is the last resort of someone that can’t actually make an argument for their position.

I disagree that my approach is anything you claim.

Take a hike.

 

[JohnnyU]

If I was a head coach, at the beginning of the next practice, I would lineup the offense with the same game day personnel and without the defense. Then I’d run the same play ten times with JTaylor with one simple instruction. Taylor would be required to run past the goal line, run it through the back of the end zone, and then bring the ball back and hand it to the center to run the play again. Then I would bring in ALL the position players and tell them that I expect them to secure the ball until they see an official with their hands up.

Treating players like children is foolish and of course childesh. All you had to see from Taylor is his expression on the sideline after the mistake. These are professionals and Taylor is a great character guy who made a mistake and I can guarantee you that won't happen again. No need to go any further than that.

Well maybe according to you. I’d do drills to correct costly mistakes.

Also, you can’t guarantee anything here. That literally makes no sense. What do I get if you are incorrect and it happens again?

This isn't high school

Why so judgmental?

I just feel like your post isn't something you would do in the NFL and certainly not to treat Taylor like a child and embarrass him like that. If you watched the game you could see how embarrassed he was. You can be sensitive and call that being judgemental, but to me it is ridiculous to do what you posted. I apologize if you're triggered by that.

Those are opinion words. I have a different opinion.

Your phantom arguments like calling me sensitive or triggered are completely meaningless. Take a hike.

LOL, ok Francis. Sorry you didn't like my bluntess on your proposal of treating Taylor that way in front of his teammates.

Name calling is the last resort of someone that can’t actually make an argument for their position.

I disagree that my approach is anything you claim.

Take a hike.

I never called you a name, but you've said "take a hike" twice now. I said the act of embarrassing Taylor like that is foolish and childish and it would be the coaches doing it. That's different than calling you a name. Saying that is "high school" isn't calling you a name either.

 

[taylormeetstheismann]

LOL, ok Francis. Sorry you didn't like my bluntess on your proposal of treating Taylor that way in front of his teammates.

 

[Payne]

So does he redeem himself and bounce back or lose carries for being a bone head?

JT is a blue chip player in his prime. He’s a great bet and he’ll probably be undervalued to a degree next year. I’d draft him.

Especially if a different coach who knows how to run an offense is in place.

 

[JohnnyU]

Taylor hasn't scored on the ground since week 8. That all changes this week. If it doesn't I would be very suprised. Same thing for week 17 against the Giants. He has 4 dud games, 3 games between 10 points and 15 points, 4 games > 15 points, with only 1 game over 20 pts. He also missed 3 games. This is based on a 6 pt per rush TD, .5 ppr for RBs.

	Rushing	Receiving
Week	Pts	Opponent	Opp Avg vs RB	Opp Rank vs RB	Status	Att	Yds	TD	Fum Lost	Rec	Yds	TD	Tgt
1	10.80	vs Texans	16.1	4	Skillet Lickers - S	16	48	1	0
2	14.50	at Packers	20.5	16	Skillet Lickers - S	12	103		0	2	32		4
3	26.00	vs Bears	22.7	28	Skillet Lickers - S	23	110	2	0	1	25		2
4	18.30	vs Steelers	18.4	10	Skillet Lickers - S	21	88	1	0	3	20		4
5		at Jaguars	24.3	31	Skillet Lickers - NS
6		at Titans	21.2	20	Skillet Lickers - NS
7		vs Dolphins	20.8	18	Skillet Lickers - NS
8	18.20	at Texans	16.1	4	Skillet Lickers - S	20	105	1	0	1	12		1
9	7.40	at Vikings	15.4	3	Skillet Lickers - S	13	48		0	3	11		5
10	13.20	vs Bills	24.0	30	Skillet Lickers - S	21	114		0	2	8		4
11	6.50	at Jets	18.5	11	Skillet Lickers - S	24	57		0	1	3		2
12	3.50	vs Lions	17.6	6	Skillet Lickers - S	11	35		0
13	16.80	at Patriots	22.2	27	Skillet Lickers - S	25	96		0	1	7	1	1
14		Bye			Skillet Lickers - NS
15	9.60	at Broncos	18.9	12	Skillet Lickers - S	22	107		1	1	4		2
16		vs Titans	21.2	20	Skillet Lickers - S
17		at Giants	22.7	29

 

[Skolpnw]

Taylor hasn't scored on the ground since week 8. That all changes this week. If it doesn't I would be very suprised. Same thing for week 17 against the Giants. He has 4 dud games, 3 games between 10 points and 15 points, 4 games > 15 points, with only 1 game over 20 pts. He also missed 3 games. This is based on a 6 pt per rush TD, .5 ppr for RBs.

​

	Rushing	Receiving
Week	Pts	Opponent	Opp Avg vs RB	Opp Rank vs RB	Status	Att	Yds	TD	Fum Lost	Rec	Yds	TD	Tgt
1	10.80	vs Texans	16.1	4	Skillet Lickers - S	16	48	1	0
2	14.50	at Packers	20.5	16	Skillet Lickers - S	12	103		0	2	32		4
3	26.00	vs Bears	22.7	28	Skillet Lickers - S	23	110	2	0	1	25		2
4	18.30	vs Steelers	18.4	10	Skillet Lickers - S	21	88	1	0	3	20		4
5		at Jaguars	24.3	31	Skillet Lickers - NS
6		at Titans	21.2	20	Skillet Lickers - NS
7		vs Dolphins	20.8	18	Skillet Lickers - NS
8	18.20	at Texans	16.1	4	Skillet Lickers - S	20	105	1	0	1	12		1
9	7.40	at Vikings	15.4	3	Skillet Lickers - S	13	48		0	3	11		5
10	13.20	vs Bills	24.0	30	Skillet Lickers - S	21	114		0	2	8		4
11	6.50	at Jets	18.5	11	Skillet Lickers - S	24	57		0	1	3		2
12	3.50	vs Lions	17.6	6	Skillet Lickers - S	11	35		0
13	16.80	at Patriots	22.2	27	Skillet Lickers - S	25	96		0	1	7	1	1
14		Bye			Skillet Lickers - NS
15	9.60	at Broncos	18.9	12	Skillet Lickers - S	22	107		1	1	4		2
16		vs Titans	21.2	20	Skillet Lickers - S
17		at Giants	22.7	29

Speak it into existence.

Also, full participation for Colts Center Ryan Kelly today. He's on pace to make his return from IR. No doubt about it, I'm ready to get hurt again with JT.

 

[FBG Moderator]

Keep this 100% on football and not little swipes at each other.

 

[Chaka]

Yeah his lack of rushing TDs over the last six games is pretty bizarre on the surface and I am inclined to call it an aberration but I haven't been watching much Colts this year.

Are they running a version of the Brotherly Shove near the goal line? If they are then maybe this isn't so much an aberration.

Throw in the fact that Taylor's inexplicably limited usage in the passing game and we should all be more than a little concerned.

Going into the season I was of the opinion having such a mobile QB would help open things up for JT. And I thought the scheme would involve a lot of dump offs to help protect their inexperienced QB.

I couldn't have been more wrong.

Interestingly enough is despite all the limitations JT is still on a 1,600 yard, 10 TD pace over a 17 game season. If nothing changes he will finish with about 1,315 yards and 8 TDs.

Dude is a heckuva player.

 

[Faust]

Next Gen Stats
Jonathan Taylor reached a top speed of 21.54 mph on his 70-yard TD run, his 2nd play of the game over 21 mph as a ball carrier.

Anthony Richardson reached 21.29 mph running down the field, the fastest play by a quarterback on a scrimmage play since 2016.

#TENvsIND | #ForTheShoe

x.com

x.com

 

[Faust]

Field Yates
Jonathan Taylor so far today:
- 16 rushes
- 189 yards
- 2 touchdowns

30.9 fantasy points

29 minutes left to play

x.com

x.com

 

[sho nuff]

Glad he is exploding now after being eliminated already. Some of this would have been nice earlier…

 

[ffmail4me]

Starting with confidence in all leagues I own him

 

[joey]

I think he might recover from that goal line fumble last week.

 

[JohnnyU]

Glad he is exploding now after being eliminated already. Some of this would have been nice earlier…

Colts aren’t eliminated. If they win out and Chargers lose 2, they are in.

 

[KingPrawn]

Glad he is exploding now after being eliminated already. Some of this would have been nice earlier…

Colts aren’t eliminated. If they win out and Chargers lose 2, they are in.

I think he means his fantasy owners

 

[RaidersAreOne]

Thank the lord for vintage JT in this semis!!! Punched my ticket to the chip.

 

[jm192]

Been really fortunate to have him in 2 of my big leagues. One for the ages. This will be one of those playoff performances people remember years from now.

I'm playing against him in 1 league, and still in it thanks to Daniels, Hubbard, and Atlanta defense.

 

[FarFromHome]

I never gave up hope buddy. I love you.

 

[VikingFrog]

I didn’t get to watch the game. But was really hoping he hugged the ball like his first child when he cross the goal line on those long tds.