RB Kareem Hunt, KC (5 Viewers)

[Tau837]

FWIW, in that CIN-CLE game (from rbsdm):

• Chubb
  • Rushing
    • 19 carries
    • EPA/play 0.10
    • EPA 1.9
    • Success rate 53%
    • First down percentage 37%
  • Receiving
    • N/A
• Ford
  • Rushing
    • 15 carries
    • EPA/play -0.64
    • EPA -9.6
    • Success rate 13%
    • First down percentage 7%
  • Receiving
    • 4 targets
    • EPA/play 0.19
    • EPA 0.8
    • Success rate 50%
    • First down percentage 25%

These metrics don't take out Ford's long run, but they still support the narrative that Ford generally was not good rushing in that game. He was solid in the passing game, but his net EPA and EPA/play was bad.

 

[titusbramble]

I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.

Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.

I’ve got Ford in another league.

Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.

Good OL so that’s a positive.

Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.

This is what people are glossing over. In Monday's game, Chubb was averaging 6.4 ypc. With the same line, against the same team, Ford was averaging 2.4 ypc before his broken play long run. That could be his game; gets nowhere but over time, he will break a long run. However, that has not been part of the game in the past. The drop-off from Chubb to Ford (and probably Hunt) is monstrous.

Ford averaged 6.6 YPC in that game. That’s a fact. Bona fide.

Excluding his 69 yard run is weird. People should stop doing it.

It would be interesting league wide as a whole if someone excluded the top and bottom 5-10% of all rushing attempts and then recalibrated ypa. Yes it is silly to exclude his nice run from discussion, but I can't help but feel raw averages are maybe not the best stat to use. A lot of it is field position - if he broke that play at midfield, is he a worse runner? Or on his own 20, is he better? The result of the play is likely going to be determined within 20-25 yards of the LOS tops, once it is clear he'll take it to the house the amount of yardage left to run is mostly variance

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.

Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.

I’ve got Ford in another league.

Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.

Good OL so that’s a positive.

Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.

This is what people are glossing over. In Monday's game, Chubb was averaging 6.4 ypc. With the same line, against the same team, Ford was averaging 2.4 ypc before his broken play long run. That could be his game; gets nowhere but over time, he will break a long run. However, that has not been part of the game in the past. The drop-off from Chubb to Ford (and probably Hunt) is monstrous.

Ford averaged 6.6 YPC in that game. That’s a fact. Bona fide.

Excluding his 69 yard run is weird. People should stop doing it.

It would be interesting league wide as a whole if someone excluded the top and bottom 5-10% of all rushing attempts and then recalibrated ypa. Yes it is silly to exclude his nice run from discussion, but I can't help but feel raw averages are maybe not the best stat to use. A lot of it is field position - if he broke that play at midfield, is he a worse runner? Or on his own 20, is he better? The result of the play is likely going to be determined within 20-25 yards of the LOS tops, once it is clear he'll take it to the house the amount of yardage left to run is mostly variance

Again, from a sample size of (checks notes) 1 game.

Y’all need to stop this. I’m worried about y’all, for real.

 

[menobrown]

In case people think it's in doubt and care just passing along that he will be playing this week.

 

[spurs44]

I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.

Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.

I’ve got Ford in another league.

Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.

Good OL so that’s a positive.

Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.

This is what people are glossing over. In Monday's game, Chubb was averaging 6.4 ypc. With the same line, against the same team, Ford was averaging 2.4 ypc before his broken play long run. That could be his game; gets nowhere but over time, he will break a long run. However, that has not been part of the game in the past. The drop-off from Chubb to Ford (and probably Hunt) is monstrous.

Ford averaged 6.6 YPC in that game. That’s a fact. Bona fide.

Excluding his 69 yard run is weird. People should stop doing it.

Lol I used to do that. Not anymore, why should a long run be a negative against him.

 

[Streetduck]

Chubb was a potential Hall of Fame RB, I don't think anyone expects the remaining RBs on the roster to compare to him.

The FAAB bidders in my leagues this week prove otherwise.

It proves something, not sure it's otherwise.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

In case people think it's in doubt and care just passing along that he will be playing this week.

Who, hunt?

 

[menobrown]

In case people think it's in doubt and care just passing along that he will be playing this week.

Who, hunt?

Yes, who else could I mean in the Hunt thread, lol.

 

[Jamesinaz]

Anyone that saw the game care to comment on Hunt going forward? I don't see much chance he becomes the lead back with Ford looking good in that spot. Thinking I'll dump him this week. Am I missing anything?

 

[Anarchy99]

Anyone that saw the game care to comment on Hunt going forward? I don't see much chance he becomes the lead back with Ford looking good in that spot. Thinking I'll dump him this week. Am I missing anything?

Just curious what "looking good" means to you? Ford had 18 yards rushing on 10 carries yesterday. He did add 33 yards on 2 receptions, but no NFL RB will have a clamp on a starting job averaging 1.8 ypc. Hunt didn't perform much better, but he hadn't really practiced in months. As far as keeping Hunt, it depends on what your roster and league looks like. For people that already had multiple injuries to RBs, Hunt is worth holding onto (especially in larger leagues).

 

[Jamesinaz]

Sorry I thought I read Ford had 90 yards rushing. Maybe my mind went back to week 2. Yeah my league RBs are scarce but I need bench spots for possible better use and he is behind Bijan, Achane, J Warren, Montgomery, Akers and Perine. Probably dump Perine too this week. Denver looks a mess on both sides.

Maybe dump Perine first and if I actually do get two claims Hunt after.

 

[The Frankman]

Kareem Hunt rushed five times for 13 yards in the Browns’ Week 3 win over the Titans, adding two receptions for 22 additional yards.

Hunt was the clear No. 2 back ahead of Pierre Strong, but he was also the clear breather back to Jerome Ford. Pro Football Focus charted Ford as out-snapping Hunt 40-14. It stands to reason Hunt will see more work as he gets his regular season legs back underneath him, but there was nothing against this tough Titans run defense to suggest Hunt is about to be the lead back. He’s an end-of-bench stash in 12-team leagues [...]
- Rotoworld

Stefanski confirmed Hunt was on a "pitch count" during this game. He coukd get more/less carries going forward.

 

[Biabreakable]

I grabbed him in a 12 team league I had a spot to burn.

Hopefully he rounds into the receiving side of this timeshare.

I’ve got Ford in another league.

Who knows how this shakes out. Browns might suck so much I end up dropping both.

Good OL so that’s a positive.

Chubb is an incredible RB so there will obviously be a big drop off. Mid to low end RB 2 numbers possible for Ford which most of us would be happy with off the waiver wire or a really late round pick. That’s assuming the Hunt role is not a complete 50/50 type timeshare.

This is what people are glossing over. In Monday's game, Chubb was averaging 6.4 ypc. With the same line, against the same team, Ford was averaging 2.4 ypc before his broken play long run. That could be his game; gets nowhere but over time, he will break a long run. However, that has not been part of the game in the past. The drop-off from Chubb to Ford (and probably Hunt) is monstrous.

Ford averaged 6.6 YPC in that game. That’s a fact. Bona fide.

Excluding his 69 yard run is weird. People should stop doing it.

It would be interesting league wide as a whole if someone excluded the top and bottom 5-10% of all rushing attempts and then recalibrated ypa. Yes it is silly to exclude his nice run from discussion, but I can't help but feel raw averages are maybe not the best stat to use. A lot of it is field position - if he broke that play at midfield, is he a worse runner? Or on his own 20, is he better? The result of the play is likely going to be determined within 20-25 yards of the LOS tops, once it is clear he'll take it to the house the amount of yardage left to run is mostly variance

Yes.

Many forms of analysis will eliminate the outliers at the top and bottom ends of the spectrum and it makes sense to do that here as well.

But in FF we get points for those yards even though its variance. So not something we are looking to do.

I totally agree with your point in regards to ypc/ypr though.

 

[Faust]

Kareem Hunt (groin, ribs) did not practice Wednesday.

Hunt emerged from Week 3 — his first game of the season — with a couple ailments that could limit his usage in Week 4 against the Ravens. Still, Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski said he expects the veteran back to suit up on Sunday. In his first game back with the Browns, Hunt had five carries and two receptions, cutting into Jerome Ford’s workload.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Kareem Hunt (groin, ribs) did not practice Wednesday.

Hunt emerged from Week 3 — his first game of the season — with a couple ailments that could limit his usage in Week 4 against the Ravens. Still, Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski said he expects the veteran back to suit up on Sunday. In his first game back with the Browns, Hunt had five carries and two receptions, cutting into Jerome Ford’s workload.

League winner right here!

 

[eagles 123]

Are we really surprised that he is already injured? Dude went from no contact to playing a game, doesn’t feel like he is a long term play given his durability.

 

[Bayhawks]

Are we really surprised that he is injured?

No-because he plays RB in the NFL. Those guys get beat up. Ford is injured too. So are 1/2 the rbs in the league, on any given day.

 

[cdclopper]

Anyone that saw the game care to comment on Hunt going forward? I don't see much chance he becomes the lead back with Ford looking good in that spot. Thinking I'll dump him this week. Am I missing anything?

Here's the all-22.

Ford, Hunt

Hunt is the better play imo. The best Ford gives you is part of a committee. As for Hunt, there's at least a chance he takes over.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Anyone that saw the game care to comment on Hunt going forward? I don't see much chance he becomes the lead back with Ford looking good in that spot. Thinking I'll dump him this week. Am I missing anything?

Here's the all-22.

Ford, Hunt

Hunt is the better play imo. The best Ford gives you is part of a committee. As for Hunt, there's at least a chance he takes over.

Ford looks good in those clips imo. Doubt either one gets anywhere near Chubb type of production.

 

[Jamesinaz]

I have already bailed on Hunt. Fair weather owner I am. LOL

Elijah Mitchell was waived in my league and I view him as a far greater chance of being a league winner. Yeah I know IF CM gets injured. Otherwise nothing. Ya never know.

 

[Ilov80s]

I am surprised there is no talk here. To me, this was the WW add this week. His snaps keep going up and Ford's keep going down. 16 points and 15 touches out of the bye week. I am buying for sure.

 

[Galileo]

I am surprised there is no talk here. To me, this was the WW add this week. His snaps keep going up and Ford's keep going down. 16 points and 15 touches out of the bye week. I am buying for sure.

There has been a little chatter in the waiver wire thread. In my main league, Hunt was actually drafted so not an option for pick up. I did grab him in another league.

 

[need2know]

Hes going to be leading the backfield in a few weeks. Looked good this past game to me. And against the niners to boot

 

[Ilov80s]

I am surprised there is no talk here. To me, this was the WW add this week. His snaps keep going up and Ford's keep going down. 16 points and 15 touches out of the bye week. I am buying for sure.

There has been a little chatter in the waiver wire thread. In my main league, Hunt was actually drafted so not an option for pick up. I did grab him in another league.

I spent way too much on WW, I should have looked here first to see that he little buzz

 

[Ilov80s]

Hes going to be leading the backfield in a few weeks. Looked this past game to me. And against the niners to boot

I agree, did he get some ww$ love in your league?

 

[need2know]

Hes going to be leading the backfield in a few weeks. Looked this past game to me. And against the niners to boot

I agree, did he get some ww$ love in your league?

I already had picked him.up a couple.weeks back. I'm a chubb.owner so watching clv closely

 

[ZADO]

picked him up in 2 leagues before the SF game , i just used common sense that he would keep getting more touches as he got in better football shape .

 

[Loipz]

Liked what I saw from him last game. Ford still the lead dog but this defense is good enough to keep them in enough positive game scripts to feed em both. So long as PJ or Deshaun don’t throw the game away, could be a solid addition with byes/injuries.

 

[eagles 123]

Problem with Hunt is he will continue to get banged up and miss time. Which is why Ford remains the top dawg.

 

[Mitchie]

Problem with Hunt is he will continue to get banged up and miss time. Which is why Ford remains the top dawg.

hasn't really got hurt much during his career.

 

[eagles 123]

He’s literally banged up this week. Also was banged up after his first game back. The bye helped but no training camp this year.

 

[Loipz]

He’s literally banged up this week. Also was banged up after his first game back. The bye helped but no training camp this year.

It was a Wednesday, let’s see if he’s back on track at todays practice.

 

[Godsbrother]

I grabbed Ford before Chubb went down for a 0 bid. Missed out on Hunt when he was signed by the Browns. Hunt looked pretty good last week but Ford had some big runs, including the home run.

I'm not an expert on the Browns but I am giving a slight edge in snaps to Ford over Hunt but that could change weekly depending on game circumstances

 

[Hartliner]

I'm considering Hunt's increased usage was game specific plan to facing SF. Run out the clock and play time of possession it worked(Smart Strat) and plus they had the backup QB there. If Watson plays I think Jerome may get the 80/20-70/30 and this team becomes a bit more balanced from here on out.

Perfect time to buy low on Ford and sell high on Hunt, if you feel strongly about the SF game being out of the norm/blip for the RB usage.

 

[Bayhawks]

I'm considering Hunt's increased usage was game specific plan to facing SF. Run out the clock and play time of possession it worked and plus they had the backup QB there. If Watson plays I think Jerome may get the 80/20-70/30 and this team becomes a bit more balanced from here on out.

Perfect time to buy low on Ford and sell high on Hunt, if you feel strongly about the SF game being out of the norm/blip.

So, you think that the game plan that they utilized to knock off one of the best teams in the NFL, who had been unbeaten before the Browns employed that game plan, will be shelved by the Browns coaching staff?

Logic would dictate that if they used this gameplan to defeat one of the best teams in the league, that it might be successful against other teams as well, no?

 

[Godsbrother]

I'm considering Hunt's increased usage was game specific plan to facing SF. Run out the clock and play time of possession it worked and plus they had the backup QB there. If Watson plays I think Jerome may get the 80/20-70/30 and this team becomes a bit more balanced from here on out.

Perfect time to buy low on Ford and sell high on Hunt, if you feel strongly about the SF game being out of the norm/blip.

So, you think that the game plan that they utilized to knock off one of the best teams in the NFL, who had been unbeaten before the Browns employed that game plan, will be shelved by the Browns coaching staff?

Logic would dictate that if they used this gameplan to defeat one of the best teams in the league, that it might be successful against other teams as well, no?

So PJ Walker the rest of the way?

 

[menobrown]

I grabbed Ford before Chubb went down for a 0 bid. Missed out on Hunt when he was signed by the Browns. Hunt looked pretty good last week but Ford had some big runs, including the home run.

I'm not an expert on the Browns but I am giving a slight edge in snaps to Ford over Hunt but that could change weekly depending on game circumstances

Agree with you and I own both a ton, I think my two most owned RB's and just worked out unintentionally they are on the same team. Hunt started, Ford got more snaps and usage. Everything about this screams RBBC, don't see anyone pulling away while the other is healthy.

 

[menobrown]

Hes going to be leading the backfield in a few weeks. Looked this past game to me. And against the niners to boot

I agree, did he get some ww$ love in your league?

Got a FFPC Main Event team with Ford and it's my only redraft league(out of 25) that someone cut Hunt last week and exposed him to blind bid waivers this week. I put $303 on him last night($1,000 budget), had it just a tad higher until I heard he was on the injury report so figured that might drop his cost a little so I took it down. He went for $304. I'm still not over it.

 

[Hartliner]

I'm considering Hunt's increased usage was game specific plan to facing SF. Run out the clock and play time of possession it worked and plus they had the backup QB there. If Watson plays I think Jerome may get the 80/20-70/30 and this team becomes a bit more balanced from here on out.

Perfect time to buy low on Ford and sell high on Hunt, if you feel strongly about the SF game being out of the norm/blip.

So, you think that the game plan that they utilized to knock off one of the best teams in the NFL, who had been unbeaten before the Browns employed that game plan, will be shelved by the Browns coaching staff?

Logic would dictate that if they used this gameplan to defeat one of the best teams in the league, that it might be successful against other teams as well, no?

They used the best strat they had to minimized backup PJ Walker's weaknesses of throwing the football and they had success running the ball.

I'm saying Watson is much more of a passer and so they don't need to grind out their RBs once he returns. I'm sure the ground and pound(strat) would have diminishing returns if they did that as a dominant strat for every game. Hunt is banged up. They need to use him wisely to keep him healthy for the long run.

I think we see them return to a more balance offense once Watson returns.

 

[Bayhawks]

I'm considering Hunt's increased usage was game specific plan to facing SF. Run out the clock and play time of possession it worked and plus they had the backup QB there. If Watson plays I think Jerome may get the 80/20-70/30 and this team becomes a bit more balanced from here on out.

Perfect time to buy low on Ford and sell high on Hunt, if you feel strongly about the SF game being out of the norm/blip.

So, you think that the game plan that they utilized to knock off one of the best teams in the NFL, who had been unbeaten before the Browns employed that game plan, will be shelved by the Browns coaching staff?

Logic would dictate that if they used this gameplan to defeat one of the best teams in the league, that it might be successful against other teams as well, no?

They used the best strat they had to minimized backup PJ Walker's weaknesses of throwing the football and they had success running the ball.

I'm saying Watson is much more of a passer and so they don't need to grind out their RBs once he returns. I'm sure the ground and pound(strat) would have diminishing returns if they did that as a dominant strat for every game. Hunt is banged up. They need to use him wisely to keep him healthy for the long run.

I think we see them return to a more balance offense once Watson returns.

OK, I see what you're saying, but I don't think it makes sense.

Stefanski has historically used the run game (ground and pound strategy); it appears to be his preferred offensive strategy. When Watson came back last year & at the beginning of this year, it appeared they tried to use the pass game more, and the results were not good. Then, per your own admission, they utilized the ground and pound strategy (which the HC seems to prefer) to defeat the best team (or at least one of the best teams) in the league. Their QB is still injured and has said that his injury is to his rotator cuff, which isn't likely to heal 100% during the season. They are in 3rd in their division, and aren't in a position to rest players "for the long run," since they may not make the long run.

Other than wistful thinking, there's little reason to assume that the Browns will suddenly decide they should abandon the game plan that worked last weekend, IMO.

 

[JohnnyU]

Going to Indy vs Cleveland game. I hope all Browns are inactive.

 

[nirad3]

Gonna be interested to see the practice report from today. If he was limited then I am gonna be a little worried.

 

[Ilov80s]

Gonna be interested to see the practice report from today. If he was limited then I am gonna be a little worried.

He was limited and I am worried.

 

[Ilov80s]

Going to Indy vs Cleveland game. I hope all Browns are inactive.

Tht

 

[nirad3]

Gonna be interested to see the practice report from today. If he was limited then I am gonna be a little worried.

He was limited and I am worried.

Dang yeah that sucks. I mean, better than him completely sitting out. Will wait and see what's reported tomorrow. I really only have Jaleel McLaughlin as a replacement and I most definitely like Hunt's matchup.

 

[Ilov80s]

Gonna be interested to see the practice report from today. If he was limited then I am gonna be a little worried.

He was limited and I am worried.

Dang yeah that sucks. I mean, better than him completely sitting out. Will wait and see what's reported tomorrow. I really only have Jaleel McLaughlin as a replacement and I most definitely like Hunt's matchup.

Same and with Kendre Miller playing tonight, it's not great. I am just going to cross my fingers that Hunt plays. If he doesn't, there is probably some kind of sad option I can pursue.

 

[need2know]

They just resting their rb1

 

[chad in Indy]

I wouldn't. He's followed this model for quite some time. No practice Wed., limited, Thursday, and no injury designation for the game

 

[Biabreakable]

I agree with Bayhawks about Stefanski preferring to run to set up the pass. He used Chubb and Hunt as a tandem before when people wished he would just use Chubb more.

I think Stafanski picked up a lot of things from Gary Kubiak and he was pretty aligned with Mike Zimmer as far as run to set up the pass philosophy and to play good defense.

I can see the other side of the story as well, that this game plan was emphasized more due to inexperienced QB. I do think Stefanski wants to have a balanced offense, but by balanced I think he would prefer more of a 50/50 split between run and pass if he has healthy enough RBs to do that.

I think Watson is there so that they can pass the ball more in game scripts where they need to, but if all is going to plan he would prefer to run the ball more.

Also good reason to utilize 2 RBs more than just one to try to keep them fresh.

Who else do the Browns have at RB to use if they need to rest Hunt more to get him closer to 100% again?

Also if Watson is hurt and will be for the rest of the season but playing through it, that seems like another reason to try to run more if they can to help protect him from further injury.

 

[Galileo]

I agree with Bayhawks about Stefanski preferring to run to set up the pass. He used Chubb and Hunt as a tandem before when people wished he would just use Chubb more.

I think Stafanski picked up a lot of things from Gary Kubiak and he was pretty aligned with Mike Zimmer as far as run to set up the pass philosophy and to play good defense.

I can see the other side of the story as well, that this game plan was emphasized more due to inexperienced QB. I do think Stefanski wants to have a balanced offense, but by balanced I think he would prefer more of a 50/50 split between run and pass if he has healthy enough RBs to do that.

I think Watson is there so that they can pass the ball more in game scripts where they need to, but if all is going to plan he would prefer to run the ball more.

Also good reason to utilize 2 RBs more than just one to try to keep them fresh.

Who else do the Browns have at RB to use if they need to rest Hunt more to get him closer to 100% again?

Also if Watson is hurt and will be for the rest of the season but playing through it, that seems like another reason to try to run more if they can to help protect him from further injury.

Pierre Strong is next on the list