RB Kareem Hunt, KC (2 Viewers)

[Statorama]

I usually take the stance that Andy Reid's play-calling works, since history is on side, but his calls in the 1st half of this game have made no sense.  It's like he is afraid to give the ball to this stud rookie RB. 

But come on, I mean these are the Giants. Nobody runs on the Giants. 

ETA yeah I couldn't even type that with a straight face 

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Really no excuse for Hunt not having 25 carries in these conditions and close low scoring game.

It's weird.  I mean, nobody has been expecting this or talking about it before today.  Totally out of the blue, just so atypical for Reid.

 

[kface]

I think Reid is badly overhyped.  I always found him to be a terribly frustrating coach.  His game planning is so vanilla.  throw in alex smith who hasn't taken a chance in his life and you have a team that is destined to be 3 and out

 

[matuski]

Im loving having Hunt going into the playoffs.

He will get more down the stretch.

 

[Biabreakable]

Do the reporters ask Reid why Hunt is not more involved?

Either Tony Dungy or Rodney Harrison was criticizing Reid for not getting the ball to Hunt 25 times during half time of Sunday night football. I forget which said that.

I concur.

 

[Deamon]

No TD's in 9 weeks.  Damn.  (that's if he scores next week)

 

[Gracchi Bros]

No TD's in 9 weeks.  Damn.  (that's if he scores next week)

He had 4 carries in the first half. The entire world is in a state of confusion over Reid's play calling the last 5 weeks. 

 

[Deamon]

He had 4 carries in the first half. The entire world is in a state of confusion over Reid's play calling the last 5 weeks. 

hunt just isn't as good as everyone thought.

 

[Gracchi Bros]

hunt just isn't as good as everyone thought.

There might be some truth to that, but the Chiefs have gone 1-4 in the last 5 games pretending Smith is Brady for the first half then they readjust and run Hunt straight up the gut 15 carries in the 2nd half. This team has no balance. Its all pass then all run. Its really weird. 

 

[Deamon]

There might be some truth to that, but the Chiefs have gone 1-4 in the last 5 games pretending Smith is Brady for the first half then they readjust and run Hunt straight up the gut 15 carries in the 2nd half. This team has no balance. Its all pass then all run. Its really weird. 

Fair. I was just looking at his YPC though and even the eye test.  He doesn't look near as good as he did at the start of the year.  Of course play calling and oline have been contributing factors, but his first 4 games he had a 7.5 YPC, and his last 6 he's at 3.5 YPC.

 

[Arodin]

He had 4 carries in the first half. The entire world is in a state of confusion over Reid's play calling the last 5 weeks years.

Fixed this for you...

 

[Biabreakable]

Fair. I was just looking at his YPC though and even the eye test.  He doesn't look near as good as he did at the start of the year.  Of course play calling and oline have been contributing factors, but his first 4 games he had a 7.5 YPC, and his last 6 he's at 3.5 YPC.

Just an example of why ypc is pretty meaningless in small sample sizes.

18 rushing attempts for 73 yards is a pretty normal game. Not good or bad. Hunt didn't do much with his 3 receptions yards wise though.

Giants deserve some credit for not being a complete pushover defense.

I'm sure most people including me were hoping for a better game coming out of the bye as Reid has a pretty good track record there and the Giants were missing important pieces on offense, so it should have been a plus match up.

 

[Hankmoody]

He had 4 carries in the first half. The entire world is in a state of confusion over Reid's play calling the last 5 weeks years. 

Fixed that for you.

 

[Arodin]

Fixed that for you.

Hank is late to the party.  A rarity for him!

 

[Hankmoody]

Hank is late to the party.  A rarity for him!

I was just reinforcing your brilliance!

Or I hadn't flipped the page yet!  Couldn't help it, it just jumped out at me the second I read it.  "5 weeks?  More like 5 years"

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Kudos.

Chiefs deserved to lose, godawful play calling. Reid learned nothing over the bye. Should have known a tiger doesnt change his stripes over one week.

Hunt with  4 carries in the 1st half. 4. 

As in, 4.

it’s unfathomable. 

This is a coach who’s allowed Kielce & Hill to throw interceptions during this losing streak. 

At what point do the Chiefs GM/Ownership politely as Reid to pull his head out of his ###?  

 

[oddsbodkins]

It'l be different next week! *until it isn't*

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Fair. I was just looking at his YPC though and even the eye test.  He doesn't look near as good as he did at the start of the year.  Of course play calling and oline have been contributing factors, but his first 4 games he had a 7.5 YPC, and his last 6 he's at 3.5 YPC.

These numbers are meaningless in the context of the dumpster fire that’s been the Chiefs playcalling. Zero balance to the offense, predictable runs, abandoning the run seemingly out of the gate, dumb failing trick plays, etc.

you can’t look at the NYG game (for example) and discern anything meaningful about Hunt’s productivity. Dude was ripping off 7+ yard runs when he got the chance. 2 in a row at one point - then what? They abandoned the run again.

What doesn’t show in YPC are the long gains negated by dumb penalties. I think Hunt had an 11 and an 18 yard gain negated by plays away from the ball. 

Its nonsensical. That topic about “post here when coaches do something dumb”? Yeah - you could fill 20 pages with Andy Reid alone the last 5 weeks.

chiefs fans must be losing their minds. They’ve had 5 straight winnable games. 

 

[Gottabesweet]

Seems like he routinely gets a big run called back from penalty.  I think he had a 30 yard scamper called back.  If I recall reading somewhere in the DFS content it said that the Chiefs have been committing run holds at an alarming clip.

 

[Hankmoody]

Hunt with  4 carries in the 1st half. 4. 

As in, 4.

it’s unfathomable. 

This is a coach who’s allowed Kielce & Hill to throw interceptions during this losing streak. 

At what point do the Chiefs GM/Ownership politely as Reid to pull his head out of his ###?  

No, it's not.  Because Reid has been doing this for years.  It's megafathomable.

 

[Dizzy]

I'm sure these WR/TE option passes work great in practice against a terrible Chief's defense,  but they haven't even been close with the bullets flying. Drive killers is all they are... they'd be better off with the "surprise punt" on 3rd down.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Seems like he routinely gets a big run called back from penalty.  I think he had a 30 yard scamper called back.  If I recall reading somewhere in the DFS content it said that the Chiefs have been committing run holds at an alarming clip.

So......he gets a big run when they have a penalty.  Without the penalty, what would have happened?

 

[Gottabesweet]

So......he gets a big run when they have a penalty.  Without the penalty, what would have happened?

Some are like opposite side of the play that weren't needed or had impact.  Others aided the run.

It was just something interesting I read that helped me shy away in DFS this week vs. similarly priced players. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

No, it's not.  Because Reid has been doing this for years.  It's megafathomable.

Yeah, but back in Philly he’d at least throw to the RB like crazy if he abandoned the run. 

In KC he simply ignores the guy who was his best weapon for the first month of the season.

that offense looked so balanced and dangerous. Part of the reason Smith was having so much success was due to the effective run game.

Regardless of history, how does Reid come out with one of the best, most efficient offenses in the NFL & suddenly flip the script for no reason?

If not unfathomable, it’s certainly maddening.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

So......he gets a big run when they have a penalty.  Without the penalty, what would have happened?

If you watch the games you’ll see many of the long runs called back are for penalties irrelevant to the run. 

If it’s holding directly resulting in a 30 yard gain your point is accurate. However on most of the run negating penalties over the last month or so it’s often away from the play. Someone on the other side of the field, where the hold didn’t help the run at all. 

That’s been brutal. 

 

[One]

Yeah, but back in Philly he’d at least throw to the RB like crazy if he abandoned the run. 

In KC he simply ignores the guy who was his best weapon for the first month of the season.

that offense looked so balanced and dangerous. Part of the reason Smith was having so much success was due to the effective run game.

Regardless of history, how does Reid come out with one of the best, most efficient offenses in the NFL & suddenly flip the script for no reason?

If not unfathomable, it’s certainly maddening.  

Hunt's up there with the workhorses in touches, even though his weight is on the lighter side.  He runs heavy and take a lot of abuse.  Seems like his value depends on hitting the long run and catching passes.  Unfortunately, sometimes the long runs are flukey and it's rare to see rookies take on obvious pass-down roles.  KC's offense AND defense slowing down isn't helping.  I think Hunt has a few big games left in him for 2017,  but he won't realize his full potential for the next couple of years.  Brian Westbrook didn't get going until year 3 or 4.

touches - player - weight

28.1 - Bell - 225 lbs

24.3 - Fournette - 228 lbs

22.5 - Gurley - 227 lbs

21.2 - McCoy - 210 lbs

20.8 - Hunt - 216 lbs

20.6 - Howard - 224 lbs

20.2 - Gordon - 215 lbs

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Hunt's up there with the workhorses in touches, even though his weight is on the lighter side.  He runs heavy and take a lot of abuse.  Seems like his value depends on hitting the long run and catching passes.  Unfortunately, sometimes the long runs are flukey and it's rare to see rookies take on obvious pass-down roles.  KC's offense AND defense slowing down isn't helping.  I think Hunt has a few big games left in him for 2017,  but he won't realize his full potential for the next couple of years.  Brian Westbrook didn't get going until year 3 or 4.

touches - player - weight

28.1 - Bell - 225 lbs

24.3 - Fournette - 228 lbs

22.5 - Gurley - 227 lbs

21.2 - McCoy - 210 lbs

20.8 - Hunt - 216 lbs

20.6 - Howard - 224 lbs

20.2 - Gordon - 215 lbs

Another example of where pure statistics fail to tell the tale. 

Watching the games, hunt will get a flurry of carries / receptions in the second half, often in situations where the run is likely to fail due to the predictability of the Chief’s offense.

in a game topic I posted one night after they went “1st & 10 deep bomb; hunt up the gut for 1-2 yds, 3rd & 8 pass” 4 straight series. 

Hard to have success when the offense is so predictable. 

Touches per game would be great if the Chiefs would run 10-12 times in the 1st half & let the dog eat. Those other backs you listed got more consistent carries series to series. 

Not all 20-touch games are created equal. 

And your “average per game” doesn’t account for his downward trend as compared to the 1st month of the season when he was the centerpiece of the offense.

 

[need2know]

Kareem hunt has gotten reided.  Bad

 

[One]

And your “average per game” doesn’t account for his downward trend as compared to the 1st month of the season when he was the centerpiece of the offense.

I watch all KC games and LOVE me some Hunt,  but I'm not seeing what you mean here, Hombre.  To me, he's being given the workload, but hasn't kept up the hyper-efficient production. 

Week - Touches - PPR points

1 - 22 - 47.6

2 - 16 - 25.8

3 - 18 - 25.3

4 - 25 - 16.1

5 - 32 - 14.6

6 - 14 - 16.0

7 - 22 - 15.7

8 - 25 - 9.8

9 - 13 - 10.1

11 - 21 - 10.7

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I watch all KC games and LOVE me some Hunt,  but I'm not seeing what you mean here, Hombre.  To me, he's being given the workload, but hasn't kept up the hyper-efficient production. 

Week - Touches - PPR points

1 - 22 - 47.6

2 - 16 - 25.8

3 - 18 - 25.3

4 - 25 - 16.1

5 - 32 - 14.6

6 - 14 - 16.0

7 - 22 - 15.7

8 - 25 - 9.8

9 - 13 - 10.1

11 - 21 - 10.7

I’m seeing him play and you’re seeing a list of numbers. 

Game situational usage has been questionable. 

Playcalling either predictable or insane (wacky trick plays with failure written all over them) 

i’m seeing weeks 6 & 9 with 13 & 14 total touches. 

I’m seeing things like this week, with back to back 7 yard runs, Reid abandons the run as it was seemingly working too well. That happens a lot with Reid. 

I understand the number of touches. But not all touches are equal. If Reid passes on 1st down & runs on 2nd down 3-4 drives in a row, how hyper efficient do you think Hunt will be on those 2nd down runs? 

Owning Hunt is reminding me of owning Ingram last season. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Kareem hunt has gotten reided.  Bad

This is the correct answer IMO. 

 

[One]

I’m seeing him play and you’re seeing a list of numbers. 

Game situational usage has been questionable. 

Playcalling either predictable or insane (wacky trick plays with failure written all over them) 

i’m seeing weeks 6 & 9 with 13 & 14 total touches. 

I’m seeing things like this week, with back to back 7 yard runs, Reid abandons the run as it was seemingly working too well. That happens a lot with Reid. 

I understand the number of touches. But not all touches are equal. If Reid passes on 1st down & runs on 2nd down 3-4 drives in a row, how hyper efficient do you think Hunt will be on those 2nd down runs? 

Owning Hunt is reminding me of owning Ingram last season. 

 

[Biabreakable]

Hunt's up there with the workhorses in touches, even though his weight is on the lighter side.  He runs heavy and take a lot of abuse.  Seems like his value depends on hitting the long run and catching passes.  Unfortunately, sometimes the long runs are flukey and it's rare to see rookies take on obvious pass-down roles.  KC's offense AND defense slowing down isn't helping.  I think Hunt has a few big games left in him for 2017,  but he won't realize his full potential for the next couple of years.  Brian Westbrook didn't get going until year 3 or 4.

Historically the average performance for a RB is the lowest in their rookie season compared to their first 6 seasons in the league.

The highest average performance for a RB is in their 3rd season.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Well I was hoping KC would come out of the bye getting back to Hunt, but it looks like they used the time to come up with more trick plays, almost all of which were a unmitigated disasters (two resulted in interceptions).

It is worth noting that Hunt had three 10+ yard plays called back on penalties that didn't effect the play.  One illegal formation, one hold that was near the play but on a guy that wouldn't have gotten there anyway, and one hold downfield as Hunt was being tackled anyway.

Still, points are points and obviously those that sold after the first month are probably feeling good and rightly so.  That said, I am still a believer in the talent.  That 10 yard run he had in OT where there was nothing there and he just threw off like 5 different tacklers was a thing of beauty.  That was the 3rd of those plays I mentioned above called back for penalty, and it was the last time Hunt touched the ball as they went pass-pass-punt after that and lost the game.

PFF still rates Hunt as the #2 back in the league on talent and I believe he's near the top in most of their elusiveness metrics.

 

[One]

Well I was hoping KC would come out of the bye getting back to Hunt, but it looks like they used the time to come up with more trick plays, almost all of which were a unmitigated disasters (two resulted in interceptions).

It is worth noting that Hunt had three 10+ yard plays called back on penalties that didn't effect the play.  One illegal formation, one hold that was near the play but on a guy that wouldn't have gotten there anyway, and one hold downfield as Hunt was being tackled anyway.

Still, points are points and obviously those that sold after the first month are probably feeling good and rightly so.  That said, I am still a believer in the talent.  That 10 yard run he had in OT where there was nothing there and he just threw off like 5 different tacklers was a thing of beauty.  That was the 3rd of those plays I mentioned above called back for penalty, and it was the last time Hunt touched the ball as they went pass-pass-punt after that and lost the game.

PFF still rates Hunt as the #2 back in the league on talent and I believe he's near the top in most of their elusiveness metrics.

I'm hoping this is the week.  

 

[gradin123]

What is funny is that for all the talk about Hunt and how great he was earlier this year and how he was vastly superior to Spencer Ware, his season has actually mirrored Spencer Ware's last season is some ways.Hunt has done better but just like Ware so far his production was way better in the first half, both got off to hot starts and tailed off as the season went along.

Don't get me wrong I think he is a lot better than Ware but the utilization of Hunt has been about the same as Ware's last season in this offense.

Ware 2016- Fantasy per week standard - 25,7,5,7,22,18,3(got hurt in this game),INJ,7,7,9,16,5,8,8,INJ

Hunt 2017                                               - 39,22,24,12,10,10,11,6,5,7 

 

[Biabreakable]

What is funny is that for all the talk about Hunt and how great he was earlier this year and how he was vastly superior to Spencer Ware, his season has actually mirrored Spencer Ware's last season is some ways.Hunt has done better but just like Ware so far his production was way better in the first half, both got off to hot starts and tailed off as the season went along.

Don't get me wrong I think he is a lot better than Ware but the utilization of Hunt has been about the same as Ware's last season in this offense.

Ware 2016- Fantasy per week standard - 25,7,5,7,22,18,3(got hurt in this game),INJ,7,7,9,16,5,8,8,INJ

Hunt 2017                                               - 39,22,24,12,10,10,11,6,5,7 

Interesting.

I think this gives some validity to preseasons projections for Hunt being based on what Ware was doing. That seems be holding up pretty well as a good guide.

 

[barackdhouse]

Smith has been gun shy about dumping it off to Hunt, IMO, and he has been hesitant downfield as well. If Smith could make some decisive throws earlier in the play the whole offense would be better off.  He is holding the ball too long. 

 

[Dizzy]

Smith has been gun shy about dumping it off to Hunt, IMO, and he has been hesitant downfield as well. If Smith could make some decisive throws earlier in the play the whole offense would be better off.  He is holding the ball too long. 

Yeah something strange has shifted in Smith's game... seems like the only one he really trusts to run with the ball is himself.

That shotgun/read option has to be removed from the play sheet. Smith cannot execute it... it's slow developing and basically has turned into a wasted down.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Smith has been gun shy about dumping it off to Hunt, IMO, and he has been hesitant downfield as well. If Smith could make some decisive throws earlier in the play the whole offense would be better off.  He is holding the ball too long. 

I agree - i’d commented on that in at least one of the in-game topics in past weeks. Smith was decisive and got the ball out quickly earlier in the season & the whole offense thrived as a result. 

Last month-Ish he’s regressed - seemingly since that first interception he threw.

Hopefully he gets his confidence back - though this week against Buffalo isn’t going to be great for him. Sets up beautifully for Hunt, if Reid remembers to include him in the playcalling.  

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

it's slow developing and basically has turned into a wasted down.

You can say that about 15-20% if Reid’s plays. 

The fake to the RB, pitch to the WR for an option pass, for example. Burn that play. Never call or speak of it again Reid. 

 

[ConnSKINS26]

what the ####. That's my analysis of today 

 

[LionOfGosforth]

What the hell have they done to this guy? Watching bits on red zone, he looks tentative and shot of confidence and that's when they actually bother to give him the ball.

 

[Andrew74]

Evidently it takes a HOF caliber RB to offset the Reid effect. 

 

[oddsbodkins]

Basically unstartable at this point. Good thing since he's the main reason I'm out of the playoffs as of now.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

He is unstartable vs any team until you see visual evidence of some type of turnaround. It's not just Hunt, Tyreek Hill does nothing either and he is one of the most explosive players in the league.  I would love to see Hill on the Patriots, lights out.  

I am not sure if defenses have figured out the Chiefs attack, if key blockers are playing hurt and we don't know about it but the Chiefs should have had huge weeks fantasy wise vs the hopeless Giants, the crumbling Cowboys and the pathetic Bills.  Nothing, these were supposed to be games where guys on the Chiefs were going to cement your place in fantasy playoffs.  If you made the playoffs, you still have a chance to go somewhere else, anywhere but back to Hunt, Hill or Smith.  

Smith has always sucked, so maybe his early Qb play was just a brief glimpse at who he could have been and that just opened up everyone. Now that he is back to usual, everyone else just suffers.   

 

[Ilov80s]

The Chiefs is so awful. 

 

[fruity pebbles]

Last one here, turn the lights off.

 

[kutta]

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Alex Smith was Hunt (and the Chief’s) biggest problem today.

none of this is on Hunt. Just a disastrous performance by Smith.

He might get benched. Good lord - what a train wreck.

nothing sums this team up better right now than 4th & 2 direct snap to Kelce for a loss of 3.