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RB Kenneth Walker III - SEA (1 Viewer)

And you can't deny that Walker just can't seem to stay on the field.
And yet a bunch of folks seem to be in total denial about this part. And that the Seahawks keep talking about having to manage his foot.

Less than ideal situation for KWIII shareholders, IMO.
Agree.

People see and hear what they want to see and hear. As someone with zero dog in this fight I don't get it. It's clearly owner bias where they are sticking their fingers in their ears and just screaming "la la la la la I don't hear you!!!"
Plus a bunch of pretty reasonable folks saying things like “I’d rather take a more reliable RB where KW is going and take Charbs later” (paraphrasing) - which, to me, seems totally sensible.

One of the top 2-3 handcuffs in football (sits somewhere among Allen, Allgeier, Monty) and for dynasty it probably does also matter a lot that KWIII is a UFA next year.

That probably impacts redraft, because if I’m the Seahawks, I’m probably going to want to take a long, hard look at Charbs before I make a decision on extending KWIII. The coaches have suggested that Charbonnet will have a larger workload this year. Who knows what that actually means, but it could be that they want to keep KWIII fresh. Or it could be that they like what Charbs brings to the offense. Time will tell on this one. Just like the heaps of KWIII praise, I take their Charbs comments with a little grain of salt, too.

Coaches praising players in the media is all well and good but GMs signing contracts probably look at more than just whether KWIII is one of the best when available. Being available is a pretty important part too. That’s likely all going to come into consideration when it’s time for the Seahawks to make a decision on their backfield next year.
As much as I love Walker, I would bet they let him walk at the end of the year. Charbonnet will be cheaper and still provides good numbers.
Therefore, you could argue they run Walker into the ground.


Nobody knows for sure.
I will repost this article from Fantasy Points, Walker appears to be the better fit in the new Kubiak scheme, that may decide what direction they go.

Though Kamara is about to lose all of the efficiency gains associated with new Seahawks OC Klint Kubiak’s outside zone scheme, Ken Walker is about to benefit from them. Walker averages 4.54 career YPC on outside zone, reflecting a ~13% efficiency boost compared to all other carries. In contrast, Zach Charbonnet has averaged just 3.67 career YPC on outside zone, ~21% less than his average on other carries.

The boom-or-bust nature of outside zone also cleanly dovetails with Walker’s play style. As I discussed at the top of this article, outside zone possesses high stuff and explosive play rates. That’s also true of Walker, who ranks top-5 in percent of yards gained on big plays since entering the NFL while also ranking in the top half of the league in stuff rate each season.

Most importantly, Klint Kubiak and the rest of the Seahawks’ organization seem to agree with me. Get Zach Charbonnet out of your head.


I’ve already written about Walker’s many other virtues (including his potential to work in the screen game and his evolution into a three-down back) at length this offseason, so I won’t repeat myself here. I’ll just reaffirm that so long as he remains the RB20 by Underdog ADP, he’ll be my favorite value on the entire board.
 
Somehow I own Kenny Walker and Charbs in all 3 of my main money leagues with one more auction draft to go. If I can get them there I will.

I’m all in!
 

Who is guilty of wishful thinking? Anyone totally ruling out a less than workhorse role for Walker or *anything close to an even split* this season seems guilty of that IMO. The quotes from McDonald and Kubiak have been shared already, so I’m not going to re-post them because they aren’t definitive and can be read or interpreted either way depending on what you want to see. All I’m saying is that many impartial observers (myself included, as I have equal exposure to KW3 and Charbs) believe there’s at least some possibility there will be a more even distribution of touches than we’ve seen in the past. Whether that’s because the coaching staff simply likes what Charbonnet brings to the table and thinks he’s has earned it, or because they want to keep Walker healthy all season and managing his workload a bit more seems prudent given past injury woes (or some combination of these factors), I can’t say.

It does seem strange to me that the coaching staff would want him to carry the load when he’s shown that he can’t stay healthy after carrying the load. I mean if they want him available for every game wouldn’t they try to limit his touches?
That is one way of looking at it.

The other is coaches tend to play their best players. Walker is the better player. They also know they have a quality backup waiting should Walker get hurt again.
 

Who is guilty of wishful thinking? Anyone totally ruling out a less than workhorse role for Walker or *anything close to an even split* this season seems guilty of that IMO. The quotes from McDonald and Kubiak have been shared already, so I’m not going to re-post them because they aren’t definitive and can be read or interpreted either way depending on what you want to see. All I’m saying is that many impartial observers (myself included, as I have equal exposure to KW3 and Charbs) believe there’s at least some possibility there will be a more even distribution of touches than we’ve seen in the past. Whether that’s because the coaching staff simply likes what Charbonnet brings to the table and thinks he’s has earned it, or because they want to keep Walker healthy all season and managing his workload a bit more seems prudent given past injury woes (or some combination of these factors), I can’t say.

It does seem strange to me that the coaching staff would want him to carry the load when he’s shown that he can’t stay healthy after carrying the load. I mean if they want him available for every game wouldn’t they try to limit his touches?
That is one way of looking at it.

The other is coaches tend to play their best players. Walker is the better player. They also know they have a quality backup waiting should Walker get hurt again.

Play their best players, yes. Smart coaches also find the appropriate workload for their best player(s) to ensure they stay healthy, keeping the most dynamic and explosive offense intact for the entire season.

The speculation is not that Charbs is more talented or explosive than Walker. He isn’t. The speculation is that Charbs is good, has impressed the coaching staff with everything he’s done (including stay on the field), and is deserving of a bigger role AND doing so might help preserve/protect Walker. Which is how you prognosticate more of a 60/40 or 50/50 timeshare which may actually help Walker be extra efficient with his touches and stay healthy all year, leading him to the type of RB1 finish many are saying he’s capable of based on talent alone.

I think my original post was “if this becomes more of an even split, they might both end up RB2s.” I stand by that and don’t think it would be crazy at all from a real football standpoint, despite what Walker fantasy owners might want.
 

Who is guilty of wishful thinking? Anyone totally ruling out a less than workhorse role for Walker or *anything close to an even split* this season seems guilty of that IMO. The quotes from McDonald and Kubiak have been shared already, so I’m not going to re-post them because they aren’t definitive and can be read or interpreted either way depending on what you want to see. All I’m saying is that many impartial observers (myself included, as I have equal exposure to KW3 and Charbs) believe there’s at least some possibility there will be a more even distribution of touches than we’ve seen in the past. Whether that’s because the coaching staff simply likes what Charbonnet brings to the table and thinks he’s has earned it, or because they want to keep Walker healthy all season and managing his workload a bit more seems prudent given past injury woes (or some combination of these factors), I can’t say.

It does seem strange to me that the coaching staff would want him to carry the load when he’s shown that he can’t stay healthy after carrying the load. I mean if they want him available for every game wouldn’t they try to limit his touches?
That is one way of looking at it.

The other is coaches tend to play their best players. Walker is the better player. They also know they have a quality backup waiting should Walker get hurt again.

Play their best players, yes. Smart coaches also find the appropriate workload for their best player(s) to ensure they stay healthy, keeping the most dynamic and explosive offense intact for the entire season.

The speculation is not that Charbs is more talented or explosive than Walker. He isn’t. The speculation is that Charbs is good, has impressed the coaching staff with everything he’s done (including stay on the field), and is deserving of a bigger role AND doing so might help preserve/protect Walker. Which is how you prognosticate more of a 60/40 or 50/50 timeshare which may actually help Walker be extra efficient with his touches and stay healthy all year, leading him to the type of RB1 finish many are saying he’s capable of based on talent alone.

I think my original post was “if this becomes more of an even split, they might both end up RB2s.” I stand by that and don’t think it would be crazy at all from a real football standpoint, despite what Walker fantasy owners might want.

The best players are not necessarily the most athletic. We see guys who hit RAS scores of 9.90 or more and fail as pro players while lesser gifted players athletically thrive.

Yeah, Walker is faster. But it is also indisputable that the past couple of seasons not only has Charbonnet been more productive but that he is also more reliable in regard to being available to play.

I can see a world where both guys perform well because Charbonnet gets more workload which keeps the SEA O in better down and distance scenarios more often and also which allows Walker to be healthier throughout the season.
 

Who is guilty of wishful thinking? Anyone totally ruling out a less than workhorse role for Walker or *anything close to an even split* this season seems guilty of that IMO. The quotes from McDonald and Kubiak have been shared already, so I’m not going to re-post them because they aren’t definitive and can be read or interpreted either way depending on what you want to see. All I’m saying is that many impartial observers (myself included, as I have equal exposure to KW3 and Charbs) believe there’s at least some possibility there will be a more even distribution of touches than we’ve seen in the past. Whether that’s because the coaching staff simply likes what Charbonnet brings to the table and thinks he’s has earned it, or because they want to keep Walker healthy all season and managing his workload a bit more seems prudent given past injury woes (or some combination of these factors), I can’t say.

It does seem strange to me that the coaching staff would want him to carry the load when he’s shown that he can’t stay healthy after carrying the load. I mean if they want him available for every game wouldn’t they try to limit his touches?
That is one way of looking at it.

The other is coaches tend to play their best players. Walker is the better player. They also know they have a quality backup waiting should Walker get hurt again.

Play their best players, yes. Smart coaches also find the appropriate workload for their best player(s) to ensure they stay healthy, keeping the most dynamic and explosive offense intact for the entire season.

The speculation is not that Charbs is more talented or explosive than Walker. He isn’t. The speculation is that Charbs is good, has impressed the coaching staff with everything he’s done (including stay on the field), and is deserving of a bigger role AND doing so might help preserve/protect Walker. Which is how you prognosticate more of a 60/40 or 50/50 timeshare which may actually help Walker be extra efficient with his touches and stay healthy all year, leading him to the type of RB1 finish many are saying he’s capable of based on talent alone.

I think my original post was “if this becomes more of an even split, they might both end up RB2s.” I stand by that and don’t think it would be crazy at all from a real football standpoint, despite what Walker fantasy owners might want.

The best players are not necessarily the most athletic. We see guys who hit RAS scores of 9.90 or more and fail as pro players while lesser gifted players athletically thrive.

Yeah, Walker is faster. But it is also indisputable that the past couple of seasons not only has Charbonnet been more productive but that he is also more reliable in regard to being available to play.

I can see a world where both guys perform well because Charbonnet gets more workload which keeps the SEA O in better down and distance scenarios more often and also which allows Walker to be healthier throughout the season.

Walker owners don't seem to realize that less is more with that guy.
 
If you’re going to give a guy like Walker a good workload then you’re just going to have to tolerate what’s going on right now - 6 touches for 6 yards total and 3 stalled drives - and hope he gives you that splash play soon. It’s a choice by the coach and that’s on him, for better or worse.
 
Blocking isn't doing him any favors.

I guess it's only doing charbs favors? Buys better cmas presents?
K9 probably missed all the team bonding exercises while he was rehabbing in training camp.

But if you're watching, he's getting blown up in the backfield on most his opportunities.
KW3 getting met in the backfield is nothing new - he’s just not making them miss, today.
 
Blocking isn't doing him any favors.

I guess it's only doing charbs favors? Buys better cmas presents?
K9 probably missed all the team bonding exercises while he was rehabbing in training camp.

But if you're watching, he's getting blown up in the backfield on most his opportunities.
KW3 getting met in the backfield is nothing new - he’s just not making them miss, today.

3.7 ypc last year (and 3.1 after mid season) - he hasn't been making them miss in a while
 
If you’re going to give a guy like Walker a good workload then you’re just going to have to tolerate what’s going on right now - 6 touches for 6 yards total and 3 stalled drives - and hope he gives you that splash play soon. It’s a choice by the coach and that’s on him, for better or worse.
Yep. He’s a book or bust type Rb. Especially now in the wide zone baby kubes is running
 
Blocking isn't doing him any favors.

I guess it's only doing charbs favors? Buys better cmas presents?
K9 probably missed all the team bonding exercises while he was rehabbing in training camp.

But if you're watching, he's getting blown up in the backfield on most his opportunities.
KW3 getting met in the backfield is nothing new - he’s just not making them miss, today.

3.7 ypc last year (and 3.1 after mid season) - he hasn't been making them miss in a while
You’re not wrong - but when you take into account he was met in the backfield consistently, that ypc is almost impressive.
 
Blocking isn't doing him any favors.

I guess it's only doing charbs favors? Buys better cmas presents?
K9 probably missed all the team bonding exercises while he was rehabbing in training camp.

But if you're watching, he's getting blown up in the backfield on most his opportunities.
KW3 getting met in the backfield is nothing new - he’s just not making them miss, today.

3.7 ypc last year (and 3.1 after mid season) - he hasn't been making them miss in a while
You’re not wrong - but when you take into account he was met in the backfield consistently, that ypc is almost impressive.

But again 4.2 for charbs (and he got more goal line carries). Does the oline just hate KWIII or is it something else?
 
Blocking isn't doing him any favors.

I guess it's only doing charbs favors? Buys better cmas presents?
K9 probably missed all the team bonding exercises while he was rehabbing in training camp.

But if you're watching, he's getting blown up in the backfield on most his opportunities.
KW3 getting met in the backfield is nothing new - he’s just not making them miss, today.

3.7 ypc last year (and 3.1 after mid season) - he hasn't been making them miss in a while
You’re not wrong - but when you take into account he was met in the backfield consistently, that ypc is almost impressive.

But again 4.2 for charbs (and he got more goal line carries). Does the oline just hate KWIII or is it something else?
I hear you. Again you’re not wrong. Different RB’s though. Charbs runs forward. KW3 dances too much.

This backfield is going to be hard to figure out, unfortunately.

Charbs will get what’s there. KW3 will get stuffed multiple times, and then break a 40yd run.

Maybe the foot is an issue? Maybe the offense isn’t running on all cylinders yet.
 
Blocking isn't doing him any favors.

I guess it's only doing charbs favors? Buys better cmas presents?
K9 probably missed all the team bonding exercises while he was rehabbing in training camp.

But if you're watching, he's getting blown up in the backfield on most his opportunities.
KW3 getting met in the backfield is nothing new - he’s just not making them miss, today.

3.7 ypc last year (and 3.1 after mid season) - he hasn't been making them miss in a while
You’re not wrong - but when you take into account he was met in the backfield consistently, that ypc is almost impressive.

But again 4.2 for charbs (and he got more goal line carries). Does the oline just hate KWIII or is it something else?
I hear you. Again you’re not wrong. Different RB’s though. Charbs runs forward. KW3 dances too much.

This backfield is going to be hard to figure out, unfortunately.

Charbs will get what’s there. KW3 will get stuffed multiple times, and then break a 40yd run.

Maybe the foot is an issue? Maybe the offense isn’t running on all cylinders yet.

That's what I'm asking, and maybe that's just it. Charbs always moving foward, so he's always getting postive yards
 
I think the bigger topic is the current state of the OL in Seattle, doesn't look very good
The QB and both RBs are gonna suffer

It’s been that way for 3 years running now. This year it’s a little more head scratching because a wide zone scheme is supposed to give the O linemen better leverage and the opportunity to take on the D from an angle of their choosing. But if you’re going to do that your linemen better have good footwork and great technique and I’m not sure SEA has that.
 
Blocking isn't doing him any favors.

I guess it's only doing charbs favors? Buys better cmas presents?
K9 probably missed all the team bonding exercises while he was rehabbing in training camp.

But if you're watching, he's getting blown up in the backfield on most his opportunities.
KW3 getting met in the backfield is nothing new - he’s just not making them miss, today.

3.7 ypc last year (and 3.1 after mid season) - he hasn't been making them miss in a while
You’re not wrong - but when you take into account he was met in the backfield consistently, that ypc is almost impressive.

But again 4.2 for charbs (and he got more goal line carries). Does the oline just hate KWIII or is it something else?
I hear you. Again you’re not wrong. Different RB’s though. Charbs runs forward. KW3 dances too much.

This backfield is going to be hard to figure out, unfortunately.

Charbs will get what’s there. KW3 will get stuffed multiple times, and then break a 40yd run.

Maybe the foot is an issue? Maybe the offense isn’t running on all cylinders yet.

Just a daily reminder that he doesn't really even do that anymore (he did as a rookie, but really hasn't since then).

Over the last two years KW3 has one 40+ yard run on 450 carries. The same amount as Charbs has on 250 carries.
 
I think the bigger topic is the current state of the OL in Seattle, doesn't look very good
The QB and both RBs are gonna suffer

It’s been that way for 3 years running now. This year it’s a little more head scratching because a wide zone scheme is supposed to give the O linemen better leverage and the opportunity to take on the D from an angle of their choosing. But if you’re going to do that your linemen better have good footwork and great technique and I’m not sure SEA has that.
I thinks it’s a bit of week 1 jitters/uncertainty for the SEA o-line. Their rookie pick (name escapes me) was road grading dudes in the preseason. That line will solidify.

New QB as well. There’s a big difference under center between Geno and Sam. One has all the confidence in the world, the other is still trying to NOT see ghosts.
 
I think the bigger topic is the current state of the OL in Seattle, doesn't look very good
The QB and both RBs are gonna suffer

It’s been that way for 3 years running now. This year it’s a little more head scratching because a wide zone scheme is supposed to give the O linemen better leverage and the opportunity to take on the D from an angle of their choosing. But if you’re going to do that your linemen better have good footwork and great technique and I’m not sure SEA has that.
Its week 1, I feel like it will take time
 
Gross start. It looks like the ceiling outcome is all but gone if Charbs is going to get his much work. We should know more in a couple of weeks.
 
Was only a little concerned before today, now I have soiled my shorts. I still think the Kubiak run system will succeed and honestly think it will not look this bad for KW3 as the season moves on, right, right....
 
3rd to 4th round pick walker was sent to do well in this scheme but all the beat writers all year said it’s going to be a closer to a split than we thought and thank god I hedged with charbonnet in the later rounds
 

#Seahawks Week 1 RB Usage

- Zach Charbonnet: 58% snaps, 12 carries, 9 routes, 0 targets (47 yds, TD)
- Kenneth Walker: 40% snaps, 10 carries, 8 routes, 3 targets (24 yds)
 

#Seahawks Week 1 RB Usage

- Zach Charbonnet: 58% snaps, 12 carries, 9 routes, 0 targets (47 yds, TD)
- Kenneth Walker: 40% snaps, 10 carries, 8 routes, 3 targets (24 yds)
yeah but wasnt walker injured in pre season? I have no shares of him so not following as close as usual, but I seem to recall he had an issue this pre season. so when I saw higher volume for Charbs I just assumed it was because of this.

am I missing something here?
 

#Seahawks Week 1 RB Usage

- Zach Charbonnet: 58% snaps, 12 carries, 9 routes, 0 targets (47 yds, TD)
- Kenneth Walker: 40% snaps, 10 carries, 8 routes, 3 targets (24 yds)
yeah but wasnt walker injured in pre season? I have no shares of him so not following as close as usual, but I seem to recall he had an issue this pre season. so when I saw higher volume for Charbs I just assumed it was because of this.

am I missing something here?
Yes, he had a foot issue and they had him in bubble wrap all preseason.

It's also just one week after an off-season with lots of change. I'm not going to panic yet (but probably bench him too).
 
Tried all offseason to trade him and nobody was interested, and starting to see why. I knew Charbs getting more work was a possibility but didn’t expect a faceplant this bad this early. Always been a Walker fan but hard not to feel discouraged.
 
well, at 12 carries for 47 yards its not like Charbs is lighting the world on fire. He needs to do better than that if hes gonna unseat Walker for the starting job
 
This team better figure out the rb rhythm it wants because I’d prefer one or the other gets 65-70%. Drafted both of these guys so ok with starting both but flex options are unsettling
 
This team better figure out the rb rhythm it wants because I’d prefer one or the other gets 65-70%. Drafted both of these guys so ok with starting both but flex options are unsettling
Agreed. Their usage yesterday was puzzling. You all know I love Walker, but Charbonnet was doing better yesterday. Yet they continued to sprinkle Walker in.
Rhythm does seem to come into play with RB's and that is not the way to establish it.

For the first time I am concerned as a Walker supporter. I also own Charbonnet, so I'm good with either being the primary back.
 
I was super high on him earlier in the off-season. As we went through the summer with all the talk of being dinged up, I dropped him in my rankings.

Out of 11 or 12 leagues, I've got him in 1 dynasty and 1 re-draft (I got him as the 20th RB taken). I don't feel good about starting him anywhere after that week 1.
 
This backfield feels like a 'style makes fights' type situation.

Some weeks it'll be KWIII that they'll lean on, others it will be Charbs. Perhaps figuring out which defenses offer which styles and mapping back to the backfield will help. But this is probably a worst case scenario for both FF wise.
I'm not sure. It seems like they had Walker start the game and then Charbs came in and performed better and they stuck with him. My gut feeling is that Walker is on thin ice with the staff for any mistakes and I'm sure it could get into his head. RB's do need some rhythm after all but perhaps the coaching staff doesn't think it's worth it.

Perhaps they trade Walker as it's his last year on his deal.
 
This backfield feels like a 'style makes fights' type situation.

Some weeks it'll be KWIII that they'll lean on, others it will be Charbs. Perhaps figuring out which defenses offer which styles and mapping back to the backfield will help. But this is probably a worst case scenario for both FF wise.
I'm not sure. It seems like they had Walker start the game and then Charbs came in and performed better and they stuck with him. My gut feeling is that Walker is on thin ice with the staff for any mistakes and I'm sure it could get into his head. RB's do need some rhythm after all but perhaps the coaching staff doesn't think it's worth it.

Perhaps they trade Walker as it's his last year on his deal.

I thought he’s signed through 2026.
 

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