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RB Le'Veon Bell, FA (2 Viewers)

Balco said:
I don’t think there are any devils in this situation. Pitt didn’t want to sign Bell to a lucrative long term deal (which I completely agree with) and Bell then decided he didn’t want to play with the franchise tag.

I think Bell did fine and the Steelers will be fine with whoever they put in the backfield (their line is fantastic and would make many backs look great)

if I am a player, two things I am telling the union - guaranteed contracts and an end to the transition and franchise tag. If owners don’t want to play ball - strike.
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The franchise tag was designed to make it more lucrative for players to stay with their teams and compensate teams if they left. I dont think anybody realized that nobody would ever give up the picks and how out of whack the tag is when it relates to the cap. I think they should tweak the tags, but keep them, and ALSO make it so that a franchise tag player does not count against the cap which allows teams to spend ore money on players. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
The franchise tag was designed to make it more lucrative for players to stay with their teams and compensate teams if they left. I dont think anybody realized that nobody would ever give up the picks and how out of whack the tag is when it relates to the cap. I think they should tweak the tags, but keep them, and ALSO make it so that a franchise tag player does not count against the cap which allows teams to spend ore money on players. 
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If it didn't count against the cap, teams would probably be strategically franchise tagging a player every year to artificially get more cap room?

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
The franchise tag was designed to make it more lucrative for players to stay with their teams and compensate teams if they left. I dont think anybody realized that nobody would ever give up the picks and how out of whack the tag is when it relates to the cap. I think they should tweak the tags, but keep them, and ALSO make it so that a franchise tag player does not count against the cap which allows teams to spend ore money on players. 
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I don't like the concept of the franchise tag or the fifth year team option for first round picks. It's not fair to top players, as only second tier players (or worse) end up having full free agency (and usually much sooner). As we are seeing now, there are plenty of non-elite free agent players cashing in. Yet there are other guys still tethered to a team that have to play for less even though they are more talented and better players. That seems backwards to me.

I also find it backwards that the league with the most physicality and shortest career expectancy is the one without fully guaranteed contracts. This ties in to football being the sport with the weakest players union. Just look at the social media comments from NFL players on NBA players getting contracts worth $30+ million a year who are barely in their 20's. As others have pointed out, the owners are all making billions, yet the players can get jettisoned with no warning and get nothing when they get tossed aside.

 
Anarchy99 said:
I don't like the concept of the franchise tag or the fifth year team option for first round picks. It's not fair to top players, as only second tier players (or worse) end up having full free agency (and usually much sooner). As we are seeing now, there are plenty of non-elite free agent players cashing in. Yet there are other guys still tethered to a team that have to play for less even though they are more talented and better players. That seems backwards to me.

I also find it backwards that the league with the most physicality and shortest career expectancy is the one without fully guaranteed contracts. This ties in to football being the sport with the weakest players union. Just look at the social media comments from NFL players on NBA players getting contracts worth $30+ million a year who are barely in their 20's. As others have pointed out, the owners are all making billions, yet the players can get jettisoned with no warning and get nothing when they get tossed aside.
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Yep. 

But the counterintuitive nature of the provisions in the CBA and the non-guaranteed contracts have been the bane of the players' existence for a long time. They do have a weak union. 

 
Stinkin Ref said:
Dude...it’s a message board to discuss all things football...if all you want is rankings and projections talk this may not be the place.....his decision and pathway here is something that’s hasnt every really happened in todays NFL....we may or may not see decisions like this again....it’s worth discussion and back and forth on a message board in a thread about the player......I’m sure there will be plenty of places to discuss where he should be drafted, projections, etc....let the thread dictate itself....
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He's a staff member - and maybe things that don't matter don't need to be beaten to death?

 
One thing to consider is how bad a lot of these players look when they are just trying to get the best deal they can. The NFL shouldn't want this either. It's a bad look for the NFL too. It hardly ever happens in other sports because the contracts are more fair. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
I don't like the concept of the franchise tag or the fifth year team option for first round picks. It's not fair to top players, as only second tier players (or worse) end up having full free agency (and usually much sooner). As we are seeing now, there are plenty of non-elite free agent players cashing in. Yet there are other guys still tethered to a team that have to play for less even though they are more talented and better players. That seems backwards to me.

I also find it backwards that the league with the most physicality and shortest career expectancy is the one without fully guaranteed contracts. This ties in to football being the sport with the weakest players union. Just look at the social media comments from NFL players on NBA players getting contracts worth $30+ million a year who are barely in their 20's. As others have pointed out, the owners are all making billions, yet the players can get jettisoned with no warning and get nothing when they get tossed aside.
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I'm not a huge fan of the NBA / NFL comparison because of the total size of the teams. 

 
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beef said:
I don't think any player looks bad for wanting the best deal.  
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Hold outs look bad. AB causing trouble because he realizes how underpaid he is looks bad. The NFL should want to limit this bad press and it should be ok with spending some money to do it. 

 
Milkman said:
Hold outs look bad. AB causing trouble because he realizes how underpaid he is looks bad. The NFL should want to limit this bad press and it should be ok with spending some money to do it. 
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Highest paid at his position is underpaid in what world?

 
Edgar said:
Highest paid at his position is underpaid in what world?
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It's my understanding he had 3 years and 36 million left on his deal in Pittsburgh. None of those years guaranteed. 12 million a year is underpaid at todays wr rates. Now after his extension he is the highest paid WR and probably overpaid but that's good imo. He's earned the NFL a lot of money being the best WR in the league for the last 5 years. 

 
Its a salary cap. It keeps teams equal. If your team pays players more than they minimum you can,  you will have fewer good players than teams that stick to that guideline. Quality teams that stay good over time (Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Seahawks ...) pay attention to this. Being 'for the players' in these things means having less money to spend on the rest of the team. People here act like the teams are being stingy and pocketing what they don't spend. They all pretty much spend the cap. The struggle is how much can they get for your team by spending as little on each player as they can while keeping everyone as happy as they can be within the limits. Paying Bell or whoever what they want won't deplete the owner's pocket, but it would keep the team from being more competitive. I want my teams to pay their better players the absolute minimum they can while keeping the player mostly satisfied.

 
Milkman said:
It's my understanding he had 3 years and 36 million left on his deal in Pittsburgh. None of those years guaranteed. 12 million a year is underpaid at todays wr rates. Now after his extension he is the highest paid WR and probably overpaid but that's good imo. He's earned the NFL a lot of money being the best WR in the league for the last 5 years. 
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You left off all the guaranteed and bonus money he already received from PIT. In essence, he has double dipped and has gotten bonuses and salary from the Steelers and will get guaranteed money and bonuses from the Raiders.

So while his SALARY was only $12 million, his annual contract value was significantly greater than that (I believe in the $17 or $18 million range) which not goes up to $19 or $20 million.

 
Milkman said:
It's my understanding he had 3 years and 36 million left on his deal in Pittsburgh. None of those years guaranteed. 12 million a year is underpaid at todays wr rates. Now after his extension he is the highest paid WR and probably overpaid but that's good imo. He's earned the NFL a lot of money being the best WR in the league for the last 5 years. 
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https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/antonio-brown-6702/cash-earnings/

AB has been paid nearly 70 million by the Steelers - including a new contract in 2012 when he was in only his 3rd year and another contract in 2017 making him the highest paid WR in the game.  I understand your issues with the CBA, but I think the Steelers are being unfairly demonized over the Brown/Bell situations.

 
Steeler said:
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/antonio-brown-6702/cash-earnings/

AB has been paid nearly 70 million by the Steelers - including a new contract in 2012 when he was in only his 3rd year and another contract in 2017 making him the highest paid WR in the game.  I understand your issues with the CBA, but I think the Steelers are being unfairly demonized over the Brown/Bell situations.
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Yep the best WR in the league has been paid less in his career than James Harden gets paid in 2 years. The NFL makes a ton more money than the NBA too. 

I get you want to defend the Steelers. I get that they are playing by the rules. The rules suck. This is what we get when the rules set in place are not remotely fair. 

We won't agree on Bell because we don't agree on what he actually was offered. So we should just leave that alone. 

As far as Brown goes he should have been paid a lot more considering how much the NFL is making. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
You left off all the guaranteed and bonus money he already received from PIT. In essence, he has double dipped and has gotten bonuses and salary from the Steelers and will get guaranteed money and bonuses from the Raiders.

So while his SALARY was only $12 million, his annual contract value was significantly greater than that (I believe in the $17 or $18 million range) which not goes up to $19 or $20 million.
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Yep. 70 million for the the best WR this decade. I'm glad he got it and if the NFL doesn't fix the CBA this stuff is going to continue to happen. James Harden makes that much in 2 years guys. Not saying he should make that much but would really like the see the NFL share a higher % of revenues so it spreads the wealth all the way down to the vet minimum guys and practice squad guys. 

 
Milkman said:
Yep. 70 million for the the best WR this decade. I'm glad he got it and if the NFL doesn't fix the CBA this stuff is going to continue to happen. James Harden makes that much in 2 years guys. Not saying he should make that much but would really like the see the NFL share a higher % of revenues so it spreads the wealth all the way down to the vet minimum guys and practice squad guys. 
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To be fair, it's not exactly an even comparison between basketball and football. The regular season is 82 games vs. 16 games. Playoffs are a max of 4 games vs. a max of 28 games. Up to 14 players on an NBA team (although most teams have several guys that never get off the bench) vs. 53 guys on a roster plus a 10 man practice squad. Not sure how to factor all that into the mix.

 
Anarchy99 said:
To be fair, it's not exactly an even comparison between basketball and football. The regular season is 82 games vs. 16 games. Playoffs are a max of 4 games vs. a max of 28 games. Up to 14 players on an NBA team (although most teams have several guys that never get off the bench) vs. 53 guys on a roster plus a 10 man practice squad. Not sure how to factor all that into the mix.
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Harden's salary > AB salary

it's a simple formula ;)  

 
Milkman said:
Yep. 70 million for the the best WR this decade. I'm glad he got it and if the NFL doesn't fix the CBA this stuff is going to continue to happen. James Harden makes that much in 2 years guys. Not saying he should make that much but would really like the see the NFL share a higher % of revenues so it spreads the wealth all the way down to the vet minimum guys and practice squad guys. 
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So to “Fix the CBA,” you’re suggesting the NFL cap skyrockets five-fold? Good luck with that, son. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
He's a staff member - and maybe things that don't matter don't need to be beaten to death?
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Doesn’t really matter if he is David or Joe....this is a message board for discussion.....going into threads where people are having a back and forth about a relevant topic and trying to dictate when they think enough is enough seems a little sideways.....there is plenty of time between now and September to discuss projections for Bell, etc....the decision he made and how things transpired are worthy of debate....I for one am enjoying trying to see if my view is wrong based on some of the info presented in here and the differing opinions...agree this is about more than just the $$$$$

 
Anarchy99 said:
To be fair, it's not exactly an even comparison between basketball and football. The regular season is 82 games vs. 16 games. Playoffs are a max of 4 games vs. a max of 28 games. Up to 14 players on an NBA team (although most teams have several guys that never get off the bench) vs. 53 guys on a roster plus a 10 man practice squad. Not sure how to factor all that into the mix.
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Which sport has more revenue?

 
Anarchy99 said:
I believe the NFL was at $14 billion last year while the NBA was at $7.4 billion. There are a lot more football players than basketball players though.
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I get that but there is money there and it's in the NFL's best interests to not have ugly holdouts every year. Hopefully they do the right thing and negotiate a better deal next time. 

 
Milkman said:
I get that but there is money there and it's in the NFL's best interests to not have ugly holdouts every year. Hopefully they do the right thing and negotiate a better deal next time. 
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NFL players get 47% of all revenue and NBA players get 49%, but the NBA has a soft cap with a tax, so teams can pay more, and they also have Bird rights and mid-level exemptions, which is similar to what I suggested with a Franchise Player not counting against the hard cap.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
NFL players get 47% of all revenue and NBA players get 49%, but the NBA has a soft cap with a tax, so teams can pay more, and they also have Bird rights and mid-level exemptions, which is similar to what I suggested with a Franchise Player not counting against the hard cap.
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Awesome. Since the NFL makes double they could easily give more of the revenue and still get filthy rich. They make 7 billion more.......

 
tangfoot said:
What I'm seeing is that there are many more NFL players, and as a whole that player pool gets a smaller percentage of a much larger pie.  The NFLPA is a ####### joke
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It's pretty bad. This is why we have these ugly hold outs. The Rooney family has been making what?......200 millionish a year off the team for a while.......but AB a generational talent at WR can't break 100 million in career earnings from them? Lol

 
Milkman said:
It's pretty bad. This is why we have these ugly hold outs. The Rooney family has been making what?......200 millionish a year off the team for a while.......but AB a generational talent at WR can't break 100 million in career earnings from them? Lol
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Well I think you take running a franchise for granted, but whatever. 

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Meanwhile... WTH is going on in Pittsburgh?  Two key pieces of an A+ offense just bailed on the team.  I know we usually grade the Steelers on a curve because model franchise, but something's broken in the culture there.
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Ju Ju Shuster should have a big role next season. 

 
Milkman said:
It's pretty bad. This is why we have these ugly hold outs. The Rooney family has been making what?......200 millionish a year off the team for a while.......but AB a generational talent at WR can't break 100 million in career earnings from them? Lol
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The Steelers twice paid Antonio Brown up front money on his contract when they didn't have to and then two years ago they made him the highest paid WR in the history of the league with a 4yr contract extension worth almost $73 million.    AB was all smiles back then.   At the same time LeVeon Bell was the highest paid RB and offered a contract that was superior to the one he just signed with the Jets.

The Steelers like every other team have to deal with the salary cap and you have 50+ players to deal with.   I realize that AB and Bell don't care about that but it doesn't change the facts.  The Rooney's couldn't pay all of these players what they think they are worth even if they wanted to.

 
Godsbrother said:
The Steelers twice paid Antonio Brown up front money on his contract when they didn't have to and then two years ago they made him the highest paid WR in the history of the league with a 4yr contract extension worth almost $73 million.    AB was all smiles back then.   At the same time LeVeon Bell was the highest paid RB and offered a contract that was superior to the one he just signed with the Jets.

The Steelers like every other team have to deal with the salary cap and you have 50+ players to deal with.   I realize that AB and Bell don't care about that but it doesn't change the facts.  The Rooney's couldn't pay all of these players what they think they are worth even if they wanted to.
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I honestly don't see how his (Milkman's) argument is relevant in the least. Doesn't matter what the Rooneys make; it's what the CBA says is the salary cap. This is a case of a guy at a message board tilting at windmills and blaming the Steelers for the CBA. 

HEY, MILKMAN! EVERY TEAM IS SUBJECT TO IT AND THE PLAYERS AGREED TO IT! 

 
rockaction said:
I honestly don't see how his (Milkman's) argument is relevant in the least. Doesn't matter what the Rooneys make; it's what the CBA says is the salary cap. This is a case of a guy at a message board tilting at windmills and blaming the Steelers for the CBA. 

HEY, MILKMAN! EVERY TEAM IS SUBJECT TO IT AND THE PLAYERS AGREED TO IT! 
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Milkman has a point though. Successful teams like the Patriots overpay for their players. Why else would the make Tom Brady like the 10th highest paid quarterback?

 
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rockaction said:
I honestly don't see how his (Milkman's) argument is relevant in the least. Doesn't matter what the Rooneys make; it's what the CBA says is the salary cap. This is a case of a guy at a message board tilting at windmills and blaming the Steelers for the CBA. 

HEY, MILKMAN! EVERY TEAM IS SUBJECT TO IT AND THE PLAYERS AGREED TO IT! 
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...and about an organization that is keeping Shazier's salary on the books in large part so he can keep his medical coverage while injured.

 
Okay so who wants to get back to debating Le’Veon Bell’s value for 2019???

 
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irish eyes said:
Well well, all the people saying oh he is going get 50 guaranteed at least, blah blah. Now I'm seeing oh it's a win for him. Too funny, he had nothing better and had to take it. Screwed himself big time and he goes to a team that isn't going to be close to be any good. But him & brown dont give a squat about winning, just the checks. Jets & raiders may not have 8 wins total between them next year.
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Wouldn’t be surprised if one of those teams (maybe both) will have a better record than Pitt next year.  We 

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I assume you’re fishing? He’s a 3 down back, he’s getting 20+ touches no matter where he is.
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I said he could be in the same boat in NYJ. The only difference in NYJ is that he gets paid for 2 years regardless of injury. In Pitt he gets the first year and if he makes it thru that, he gets paid for the 2nd year. If he gets hurt, they move on. I can see why he would hold out because if he got hurt last year in PITT, he would not have made as much as he is going to make in the 2 years in NYJ. Obviously whoever has him is going to give him 20+ touches.

Run into the ground on a 1 year deal with the risk of injury costing you the 2nd year is not as good as a 2 year deal unless you don't get hurt.

 
rockaction said:
I honestly don't see how his (Milkman's) argument is relevant in the least. Doesn't matter what the Rooneys make; it's what the CBA says is the salary cap. This is a case of a guy at a message board tilting at windmills and blaming the Steelers for the CBA. 

HEY, MILKMAN! EVERY TEAM IS SUBJECT TO IT AND THE PLAYERS AGREED TO IT! 
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It's pointless trying to have any kind of conversation with that person rockaction. Just put him on ignore, the craziness in points being brought up is beyond laughable. 

 
irish eyes said:
It's pointless trying to have any kind of conversation with that person rockaction. Just put him on ignore, the craziness in points being brought up is beyond laughable. 
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Lol I agree. Anybody that thinks the current NFL CBA is fair should def put me on ignore. I have very little in common with people like this and would rather they not benefit in FF from any of my posts. This is also the best way not to clog up these threads. 

 
So NFL Network reporter Aditi Kinkinhabwala  just reported about the “full” guarantees.....and she said this is where it gets interesting....”injury/skill/salary cap”...most only include one or two of those...

Gurley: including all of those protections....just shy of $22 mil

DJ:: including all three....just north of $24 mil

Bell: including all three...got $28 mil

they went on to say that the offer from the Steelers was $10 mil less...so $18 mil including all three

they went on to say that yes he turned down the $14.5  but also would have endured the 400 touches and the possibility of injury....and if so....would he have gotten this deal from the Jets...?

final comment:  “Bell’s camp is very happy with how it all played out”...

I guess the FBG economics majors can spin it however they want to make it a bad business decision....but dude is probbaly going to be okay and probbaly doesn’t give a #### about missing out on the 14.5 in one of his prime years....spin it how you want....

 
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