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RB Nick Chubb, HOU (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter EBF
- Start date
I'm not going to waste my time looking over his roster, trying to figure out an equitable offer if the guy initiating it can't be bothered to do the same. If someone sends a garbage offer to me, it says they aren't interested in making a fair trade. If they put time into an offer and make it somewhat balanced with a little work to go, then sure, I'll reciprocate and try to find a middle ground or at least give them some sort of reply. But if they are too lazy and just send an offensively low offer, f 'em.
Right. You have no interest in trying to find a deal that both sides like. Message is clear.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Was offered a low 1st and 2nd for him in a 14 team league. Not sure I really like that deal, especially in a 14 teamer.
What would it take to pry him away from you all? Two 1sts?
What would it take to pry him away from you all? Two 1sts?
Aznflyer14
Footballguy
At this point, rookie draft is done and since then Chubb's value has increased. I would treat Chubb's value like stock, projecting his value with full knowledge that he'll get many touches and opportunities to break out explosive long runs.
This is a very bad take. I'm almost not sure you can be serious.If you send a garbage initial offer to someone, what exactly do you think that tells them? Apparently you (very hypocritically) think it means something else than when they send a garbage offer back.
I'm not offended if you think my offer is garbage. Tell me what you need instead, and let's see if we can work something out.
If you send a garbage initial offer to someone, what exactly do you think that tells them? Apparently you (very hypocritically) think it means something else than when they send a garbage offer back.
Send me a garbage offer back, and it's clear you're not interested in working something out.
While the sample size isn't great on him, he appears to be a legitimate NFL talent. So it comes down to team need. If you are stacked at RBs and desperate for a WR, a couple 2019 1sts would probably suffice since this should be a nice WR class. If you need RB help, I would not trade Chubb for a 2019 1.01 + another unless you were certain you could flip those picks for another equal or better RB. But the main draw is that he's the real deal. Rookies are unknowns. Would suck to trade Chubb and end up with the next Trent Richardson.
So.. duh. Of course you are not offended if I think your garbage offer is garbage. You already knew it was garbage when you sent it. By sending a garbage offer you are saying you are not serious about working something out because you put zero effort into the initial offer. If you put zero effort into your initial offer and expect people to read it favorably you are a hypocrite if you receive zero effort in their counter and read it negatively.
The initial offer opened the dialog.
Your reply slammed the dialog shut.
The first bogus offer signals "I'd like to make a deal". Most seem to understand and accept that you're not going to get the other guy's best offer straight out of the gate.
The second says "I don't".
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Respectfully, and without fully knowing context of this exchange, I will offer that I’m the kind of person who doesn’t appreciate lowball offers.
I know some here disagree and see them as opening a dialogue, but I feel like the person making the lowball offer is being disrespectful by lowballing me.
Usually I’ll just reject without comment. If it’s particularly bad, like @FF Ninja occasionally I’ll theow it back at them, like offering a kicker for a RB2 to point out how I felt about the offer.
If someone wants to acquire one of my assets, they’d best start at fair value. It still might be a crap offer of a 4/2 or 3/2 where they get the best player in the deal, but if it’s at least decent i’ll appreciate that as a starting point and consider making a legitimate counter offer.
Analogy: someone starting a conversation with me by telling me “hey, go F yourself.”
I’m more likely to respond in kind than to ask them how their day is going.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Yes, this is where I stand. Not to turn this into an AC issue, but I am in a complete rebuild. Sold Ingram, Coleman, Jordan Reed, Allen Robinson for multiple draft picks. Some draft day trades and ultimately landed Guice, Chubb, Sutton, James Washington, Gesicki for my rebuild project. I also have 2 first rounders next year already. RB has some depth with Clement, Ito Smith for next year. My biggest weakness is WR. I am going to have at worst 1.2 pick. One of my 1sts will end up being in the middle, one near the end most likely. So I will be in a good position to land a pair of solid WRs and then picking best available at the end of round 2... so I'm not terribly motivated to move Chubb.
Thanks for your feedback. Clarifies where I value Chubb. Just wish i could grab him in my other dynasty league. Guy won't budge. I'm contemplating offering 2 1st rounders and see if he bites
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
See, you're injecting emotion into this. When an owner sends an offer, even a bad one, they are interested in trading. Don't look at a week offer as insult. Look at it as the beginning of a conversation. The owner isn't calling your mom ugly, he's interested in your players. That he's interested gives you the upper hand.
100% agreed. When I get a garbage offer I automatically view the other owner as not serious and trying to fleece me. I always respond, but I don’t take him seriously at all. One guy offered me I think Chris hogan for Sony or Chubb. This was at the beginning of the season in a dynasty league. I did not counter offer. I simply replied “we are not even in the same universe. If you want one of these 2 you need to come correct next time”.
And guess what? He didn’t come back. BC he didn’t really want to trade. He wanted to see if he can find a sucker. Which I am not.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
This boils down to text vs. subtext.
The text: "I'll give you Marlon Mack and Keenan Allen for Nick Chubb and Julio Jones."
(terrible trade, right? read on...)
The subtext: "I really want Nick Chubb. Please trade him to me."
His offer, albeit terrible, was the first move. You already have an advantage. Divest yourself from the emotion and you can make a great trade with patience.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
A bad offer isn't someone saying your mom is ugly. It's a thinly-veiled attempt to get a player he wants.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
You don’t have to mansplain it to me - I get it.
But as I said already, I’m not inclined to make a counter offer to some who comes at me incorrect.
We all have our pet peeves - this is one of mine. Treat me with respect with your opening salvo and chances are good I’ll counter with something if there’s something I need.
where you’re off is that in *either* scenario I have the uppper hand in negotiations, because my potential trade partner approached me. The person seeking a deal is always at a disadvantage in negotiation.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Traded Chubb + Edelman + J. Brown for DJ + J. Gordonphowler13 said:
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
My pet peeves are terrible drivers and people that blab on their cell phones in confined public spaces. I enjoy crafting a good trade too much to be insulted by anything. Sure, I'll make fun of the guy a bit. But I want to trade if it helps me.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
The worst is drivers who don't know what an acceleration ramp is for. Trying to merge onto a highway doing 45 ?
.Edit: Like the old facepalm emoji better.
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Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
It’s still here.The worst is drivers who don't know what an acceleration ramp is for. Trying to merge onto a highway doing 45 ?
Edit: Like the old facepalm emoji better.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Or signaling. No one signals. Or stop signs. No one makes a complete stop at a stop sign. Or drivers that don't understand the right of way. Or drivers that tailgate you at 70 mph, and when you move over, they don't speed up. Which means they were using cruise control and they're too ####ing lazy to slow down just long enough to drive a safe distance behind you.The worst is drivers who don't know what an acceleration ramp is for. Trying to merge onto a highway doing 45 ?
Yeah, I have problems with rage...
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I'll pump the brakes slightly on Chubb and say if I can't get him for 2 1st round picks then I will take my chances on the 2019 draft class. There are 2-3 guys I'm very intrigued by, but yes it's more of a WR class than RB. Chances are I can land at least one of the top RBs from this next class.
I'm not sure Chubb achieves super star status, but he's looking like a hit at the very least.
I'm not sure Chubb achieves super star status, but he's looking like a hit at the very least.
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thecardiackid
Footballguy
Just wait till Dorsey fires Hue n co. dunno about mid season, but next year...
Have to bench one of ADP, Lindsay, or Sanders to get him in the lineup this week.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Depends who they bring in. They could bring someone in like Nagy who wants to run an offense through a back like Cohen. (Let me be clear, I'm not saying Chubb is the same kind of back as Howard). I'm sure a new coach will be chosen to fit the pieces they have, but this is the Browns...
What if they brought in a guy like McDaniels and he wanted to run some 3 headed monster scheme at RB. Many coaches out there are going to this. There are a lot of question marks out there.
That being said, I'd still buy at my price
Starting him this week with a fairly high degree of confidence alongside Lindsay and over Breida, Howard and Crowell. I'm a little worried about the Pittsburgh matchup -- that run D is legit, plus a negative gamescript is always looming.
Going forward, once Zeke is back from bye Chubb will be fighting it out with Lindsay, Breida and John Brown for my RB2/flex spots
Going forward, once Zeke is back from bye Chubb will be fighting it out with Lindsay, Breida and John Brown for my RB2/flex spots
BlueDredSo
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I think the offer is fair.
Chubb is looking like he could be the centerpiece to an up & coming offense on a team with a solid enough defense to keep them in games.
2 first round picks should get that done - but then, your potential trade partner would also have to be in rebuild mode for that to be attractive.
If they’re in win-now mode, it’s unlikely you’d be able to get Chubb since he’s a rock solid flex option with a decent weekly floor.
In that case you might be better off offering the better 1st & a current player that addresses a need on their team (TE/QB/WR/lesser RB)
Interseptopus
Footballguy
In over Lockett and Collins for me (easy decision on Collins, but Lockett has been a beast this year). I'm not too worried about the matchup. Should be a negative game script, yes. Hyde had 60 yards and a score last time. I would be happy with the same from Chubb
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Yes, current owner doesn't really need him, but he's "going for it" this year. Chubb is a nice flex option since his RB 1 and 2 are pretty set. I'm not expecting to land him.
Was considering offering the same deal for Dalvin Cook but I'm wavering on that
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
The latest news on Cook is disheartening but in a keeper league i would absolutely target him. You might even get a better deal for arguably a more talented player in a better offense.
We saw what Cook was capable of last year.
Redraft i shied swag from making an offer, but keeper - depending on your cost to retain him - Cook is an awfully tempting buy-low.
No, the initial garbage offer said "I'm not serious." If you actually want to make a trade, you make a real offer. If you offer two 2nds for Chubb, you might as well be offering $20 for a used Macbook on craigslist with an asking price of $600. Lucky to get any reply at all, much less a serious one.
Anyone who opens with a garbage offer is not very bright. If you aren't serious, you're wasting your time and someone else's. If you are serious, you are starting off negotiations on the wrong foot. It's pretty basic strategy coupled with common sense.
That's a legitimate lead-in offer. One-sided? Yes, but at least there's something of value on both sides. Chubb+4th for two 2nds is a garbage offer. The example someone else gave of Hogan for Sony+Chubb is a garbage offer. Your example isn't in the same league as those other two.
The point is, your response to his crappy offer slammed the door shut on any further discussion.
Do you disagree with that?
Nah, it's not emotion at all. It's pure logic. I'm in a lot of leagues. It takes time to put together a thoughtful counter offer. If someone puts time into their initial offer then I know they're serious and I don't mind investing my time and energy into an counter offer. If someone sends me garbage that communicates that this is a poor investment of my time and I reply back with a quick, equally garbage trade. If they're halfway intelligent they'll be able to read into that. I gave them an opportunity to counter offer my counter offer with a legitimate trade if they are interested.
Using your example:
Initial offer: garbage
Subtext: I'm either stupid or not serious
Counter offer: garbage
Subtext: I'm listening, but if you're actually interested, send me a real offer
cloppbeast
Footballguy
To back up NinjaMan, the message is "be serious next time." Sometimes you have to keep it real.
thecardiackid
Footballguy
can we just get our chubb back on?
you 2 PM each other re: the inner workings of trade tactics plz...
you 2 PM each other re: the inner workings of trade tactics plz...
I do disagree. See my point above. Rejecting a trade without counter slams the door shut. Sending a garbage trade back shows you are listening. It gives them an opportunity to counter offer with something legit. I'm not going to do their work for them. I've got the commodity they want. The onus is not on me to put a fair offer together.
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
I've had him in a devy league for 4 years. I wouldn't trade him for anything less than Zeke, Gurley, etc.
It's all good.
All I'm saying is that I would perceive your message much differently than you intend. I'm not coming back to you with a better offer. I'm moving on to the next option.
Well, good luck with that. That's an awful plan, so you'll need some luck for it to work. I'd advise putting more work into your initial offers to show you are serious or at least countering with something serious when someone cracks the door for you with a counter. Trade talks are open as long as someone is countering. Not sure why you'd walk away at that point. Like I said before, seems very hypocritical. You send garbage to someone and expect them to take you seriously. They reply to your garbage with garbage so you perceive they don't want to trade and you take your ball and go home.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I got a not thanks on my 2 firsts for Chubb... thinking of throwing in Gallup to see if he bites on that. I am fairly deep with young WR and have 6 first round picks next year.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
Guys, back to Chubb please. I don’t care about your trade strategies and if I do I’ll go to the theead specifically for that topic!!
destro
Footballguy
I drafted him at 1.03. Barkley and Guice went 1/2. I considered Michel and Penny, but ultimately decided Chubb was the best from a talent perspective. And yes, I agree... It was garbage.
It's not veiled at all; it's literally an attempt at getting a player he wants... at a ridiculously low price. Gotta agree with FF Ninja here. You're not just saying "I'd like to trade for this player," you're saying "I hope you're dumb enough to accept, and if not... well, I'd like this guy and my starting offer is miles from reasonable." If you can't start anywhere close to a fair price, you shouldn't expect a dialogue to continue. I wonder if those in the thread who seem to be cool with terrible offers are habitual makers of terrible offers themselves?
But anyways, yeah, let's get back to the Chubb Clubb discussion...
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
LionOfGosforth
Footballguy
Anyone else feel like this is a bad week waiting to happen? Not much involvement in the passing game to mitigate game-flow, Steelers likely to be ahead by a significant margin etc?
