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RB Rhamondre Stevenson, NE (1 Viewer)
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The Man With No Name
Footballguy
91 yard touchdown!
DirtyCashDylan
Footballguy
only the beginning boys
Mister CIA
Footballguy
Haha. I drafted Rhamondre at 2.11 in a rookie draft. I'm wishing myself the best, but I'll continue to temper my expectations, "breakaway" runs with a minute left in a pre-season game notwithstanding.
I do love little wins in preseason for my dynasty roster.
I do love little wins in preseason for my dynasty roster.
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Biabreakable
Footballguy
For those who were not watching this game this late a little context.
The Patriots had the lead and were just running out the clock with victory formation but Riverboat Ron calls a time out preventing them from ending the game that way.
So Bill calls a run designed to hit the outside when the defense is all crashing the middle as they are expecting a run up the middle as the game is almost over.
Some good blocks opens up a huge crease for Stevenson and the whole defense is out of position cheating inside. Only one defender had a chance to make the tackle on Stevenson but it was a diving attempt at his feet which Stevenson steps out of and then races the rest of the way to the end zone.
Not trying to take anything away from Stevenson. He made a great play but the defense and Rivera were at fault here as well.
The Patriots had the lead and were just running out the clock with victory formation but Riverboat Ron calls a time out preventing them from ending the game that way.
So Bill calls a run designed to hit the outside when the defense is all crashing the middle as they are expecting a run up the middle as the game is almost over.
Some good blocks opens up a huge crease for Stevenson and the whole defense is out of position cheating inside. Only one defender had a chance to make the tackle on Stevenson but it was a diving attempt at his feet which Stevenson steps out of and then races the rest of the way to the end zone.
Not trying to take anything away from Stevenson. He made a great play but the defense and Rivera were at fault here as well.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
As already described, BB wasn’t thrilled with WFT calling timeouts and called an actual play instead of a kneel down. On a long, hot night the defense never touched him and really were not into running the length of the field. So sure, Stevenson looked good pulling away from fourth string defenders that didn’t want to chase him down in the first place.
He may have more of a role next year, but nothing from last night changed my opinion on him. He didn’t play with the starters and was in the game for mop up duty in garbage time. That’s generally reserved for guys that BB doesn’t plan on playing much.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
Will likely sit atop of the depth chart in 2023 with the potential to be a 3 down back. But the pats don't usually do that. JJ Taylor will be the next James White if he can become a decent pass protection option. He's miniscule so that may never happen.
He's a fun player that could easily leapfrog Sony Michel this year but everyone loves Damien Harris. Will probably have a small handful of games where he cashes in on opportunities but that's going to be really inconsistent this year and really only just drive Harris owners crazy.
He's a fun player that could easily leapfrog Sony Michel this year but everyone loves Damien Harris. Will probably have a small handful of games where he cashes in on opportunities but that's going to be really inconsistent this year and really only just drive Harris owners crazy.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I'm not sure why everyone likes to pile on Sony Michael. Both he and Harris were ranked in the Top 10 by PFF last year. Michel had a 5.7 YPC and 16.3 YPR in 2020. Plus he is exceptional on blitz pick up. People point to the fact that NE declined his 5th year option as evidence that he is on the roster bubble and NE doesn't like him. IMO, all that means is NE doesn't want to pay him over $5 million next year. If he plays well this year, they could easily re-sign him . . . and likely for a lot less money. He and Harris have been splitting reps with the first team offense all training camp. Harris will likely get more carries, but IMO Michel will still get a decent workload. Taylor is not a lock to make the 53 man roster and they may try to stash him on the practice squad. Personally, I would prefer they keep him and cut Bolden (and then add Bolden to the practice squad).
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I have posted pretty extensively on the NE RB situation in the Harris / Michel / NE team threads. You are probably best suited to take a gander there. But to try to summarize . . .
There were only three games where Harris and Michel played together last year. Here was the carry breakdown: Harris had 27 carries, Cam had 21 carries, and Michel had 17 carries (to illustrate how disruptive Cam is to the RBs).
NE is usually to figure out which guys play which roles.
- There's the early down bruisers (Dillon, Maroney, BJGE, Maroney, Blount)
- There's the guys that do a little bit of everything (Faulk, Lewis, Burkhead)
- And the guys that generally are third down backs / pass catchers (Woodhead, Vereen, White)
BB generally has the primary bruiser get two series in a row and then the secondary back take a series. If that second back does well, he might get an extra series along the way . . . or he might get all the game garbage time carries in a blowout either way.
NE also has suffered from guys getting hurt a lot . . . whether it be for a few games or entire seasons. That always throws a monkey in the wrench. BB is a great interview during his radio interviews (his press conferences are useless), and in those he's mentioned not wanting to get into the situation he was in a couple of times a few years ago (not enough RB depth and burning out the guys he had rostered). So he mentioned carrying more backs on the roster since then and trying to rotate guys more to have them available all season.
Who the QB is will have a great bearing on how the carries play out. Cam will vulture premium carries and goal line looks if he is in the lineup. I would guess if everyone is healthy, Harris will typically see 12-14 carries, Michel 8-10 carries, and Cam 6-8 carries. The other guys will get the few leftovers.
Guys not brought in as first round RB picks typically barely see the field at all as rookies. That should hold true with Stevenson (and the NE RB coach already brought that up as a very possible scenario for him this year).
I have heard mumblings that NE might make a surprise move and move Taylor into White's role THIS year and release White last minute. To me, that would be a surprise. But the fact that media guys have mentioned means there is a chance that it could happen. I am not sure they would do that unless they believe the diminutive Taylor can identify and pick up blitzers.
Which brings us to the question what happens when Jones becomes the starter. Obviously that frees up carries to the RBs. While I initially felt that would help Harris a lot, I am starting to rethink that and wonder if that would help Michel more. He really is great at pass protection. They also have been using him in training camp like they have White in the past, moving him around the formation and lining him up as a receiver and having him motion a lot. They also have been throwing to him a lot in practice. That certainly goes against the way they have used him his first three seasons.
As things stand today (Cam starting), I think all the NE RBs are fantasy liabilities as they all take away value away from each other and Cam further dilutes the available production pool. Once guys start missing time due to injury, the guys left standing will have more value obviously. I still think NE will pass probably 5-6 more times per game this season.
The game scripts last year were crazy (some games with hardly any passing yards). IMO, the offense will be better with Cam having another year in the system or having Jones (a real passer) running the offense. I suppose there is a chance neither one is very good, but with the players they added to the offense, I think they will be at least average offensively.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
It's not necessarily a knock in Michael. I had been pretty disappointed with him up until last year. I felt like for whatever reason he was more consistent or explosive when I watched last year than in years past. It's more that I see him as a guy that has a history of being kinda pedestrian for long stretches.
Didn't know the pass pro stat, I'm sure the team values that more than "average joe fantasy football player."
If Michael reverts back to being kinda pedestrian and Stevenson (who's drafting scouting reports suggested pass pro as a potential strength) can be closer to his ceiling, I think he could easily surpass him.
I'm guessing you've been a fan for a while, in which case you know as well as I do they love to give at least 4 RBs carries. And if we watch Stevenson pop there's no guarantee they'll actually use him consistently, especially as a rookie.
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Boston
Footballguy
it is very easy to see why people pile on Michel…he was a first round pick that has not performed up to that status the past two years…he had a very good rookie year and has definitely flashed after that and had some good stretches but he is unreliable in his availability and has added zero in the passing game which I think many people expected to be a plus…I would not be surprised one bit if a team like the Rams or another team that is RB needy makes a play for him…with Stevenson onboard I don’t see Michel being on the team in 2022.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Stevenson has several issues for getting any serious playing time. There are a multitude of backs in front of him, BB rarely plays developmental backs as rookies, and the NE RB coach already laid the framework that he could easily spend the season on the sidelines learning the game.
I am pretty sure his performance last night won't impact his standing all that much. The way NE plays and rotates people in their preseason games, the guys playing in the second half are usually fighting for a roster spot or are auditioning for a chance on another team. I could ramble off a pretty long list of guys that looked great in the preseason for NE that did close to nothing in the NFL.
That's not to say that Stevenson is on his way out the door. They will keep him around this year but I doubt he will see the field very much. Maybe the big three in NE next year will be Harris-Stevenson-Taylor with Michel and White moving on and a free agent vet added to round out the roster. But unless guys start getting hurt (always a concern) or are very ineffective (unlikely given the OL play and new TEs added), I doubt Stevenson will see a lot of game action.
greenmountaingoat
Footballguy
This is great. Totally agree. Point on Sony vs Harris makes total sense to me re: Jones vs Cam.
I'm a BSJ reader and Bedard has been rumbling about White getting traded. They sure used him (White) a lot yesterday as a first stringer but I think you're right. I think they have a decision to make and would need Sony or JJ to evolve in order to move him.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
We (collectively) have discussed this some, and the question has always been are the NE backs that run the ball incapable of catching it or has McDaniels not given them much of a chance to be involved as receivers?
One huge difference for Michel this year is they have been using him like they have White this training camp. Many times they put him in motion, he's been lining up on the outside and in the slot, they have been actually having him run routes and have been throwing him the ball (and he's been catching it), and the QB has had him come back to the backfield for blitz pickup.
Now that all sounds good, but like you, I'll believe it when I actually see it when they use him like that in a game. Hopefully they will give the backs more to do this year.
As for Michel, sure he's been in and out of the lineup . . . but so has Harris (and all their backs over the years). Has Michel seemingly underperformed being a 1st round pick? Probably (they never should have drafted him where they did and / or they should have gone with someone else). But he helped win them a SB and last year he was just plain good when he played. He got COVID . . . was that really his fault that there was a pandemic?
IMO, BB likes him, he works hard, he's coachable, and he's done more of what they have asked him to do (run plays as called and not ad lib). He's turned into an exceptional blocker and it seems like his knee has stabilized some. Sure, he would not have gone for 91 yards like Stevenson did last night (he doesn't have breakaway speed), but he still would have had a big gainer.
NE has brought back guys or had them take pay cuts to come back (Burkhead, White, and Bolden come to mind from recent teams). I think the $5 million price tag is what scared them off from utilizing Michel's 5th year option. Depending on how things go this season, I would not rule out a return next year.
He is a rookie in a BB system. He will be lucky if he sees 50 snaps given the backfield is the way it is. I tend to agree that they are pretty well off with Harris and Michel. I think it's going to be hard to steal carries from those two and those two will make the NE backfield the typical nightmare all season long. Throw in the Newton TDs and i just don't see value in this backfield. I own Harris too...i think he is the guy when you need something he will give you a consistent 60 yards and maybe a td on any given week but with no catches.
People always get so overhyped about performances in the preseason.
People always get so overhyped about performances in the preseason.
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Boston
Footballguy
I believe the Stevenson pick was made with Michel’s departure in mind…my guess is next year it will be Harris-Stevenson-Taylor with a 2022 draft pick thrown into the BB/Ivan Fears redshirt program with also the possibility they dig up another Burkhead Swiss army knife type of RB…also, I bet Michel would want to go somewhere else as his opportunity would be very limited in the New England backfield going forward.
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Boston
Footballguy
it is not the stealing it is the health where Stevenson may have an opportunity…both Harris and Michel need to prove they can be reliable.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
No way of knowing until we get that far. If NE wins more, Harris gets 800-900 yards, Michel gets 600-700 yards, and Michel stays healthy, why not bring him back? We all know the market for free agent RB's is both soft and low paying. White should have had suitors and really didn't. I don't think it's crazy for Michel to be happy in NE and coming back next year. Sure, if another team wants to pay him more and give him a much bigger role . . . but how likely is that?
Brownsfan
Footballguy
I just traded 2.08 to someone who took him. Moved back three spots, move up 10 spots later. Still get one of my targets
Probably a 2nd round rookie draft pick now...warranted or not.
Boston
Footballguy
If White goes it is definitely due to them having faith in Taylor…that role is a major piece of their offense and Michel has been with them for three years and they have never used him in that manner.
Boston
Footballguy
Gonna have to agree to disagree…I just don’t see a Harris-Michel-Stevenson trio…not getting enough on special teams for that duplication to work.
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Possible for sure. It's always possible he is the last rb standing but there is strength in the overall backfield and even with injuries i think its going to be a lot of guessing
Boston
Footballguy
if there is one constant in fantasy football it is the Patriot backfield is all about guessing.
There seemed like there were a couple of games last year when harris was performing well and there was no one else and he still only got 10 carries and no catches
Anarchy99
Footballguy
What are they getting on special teams between Harris-Michel-White? Plus they would theoretically have Taylor plus another rookie or free agent.
Here are the number of touches for rookie RBs from the past 20 years (ignoring Maroney and Michel):
Ridley - 90
BJGE - 77
Bolden - 58
Taylor - 24
Cobbs - 22
Vereen - 15
Iosefa - 15
White - 14
Harris - 4
Unless they feel Stevenson is "all that," I don't see them giving him a lot of snaps this year (short of massive injuries in the backfield).
Boston
Footballguy
White does not belong there…he has a totally different skill-set so he is not duplication of Michel and Harris…Stevenson would be in 2022.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
IMO, this is one of the biggest myths going. NE backs all of roles, and those roles have been the same since Dillon left. The only real guesswork is when they scheme and game plan games with all runs or all passes, which really mucks up things fantasy wise. But we already know who will do what . . . it's not a mystery. People just don't like it because they would much prefer one RB to do everything and play that guy on their fantasy team. That's not how it works in NE.
Boston
Footballguy
Missing the point…everyone agrees with what you are saying…the point is from a fantasy standpoint it is a backfield to avoid even though it is easy to fall into the trap that this guy will be different.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Like I said, we will see when we get there. IMO, if they can get 1500 rushing yards total from two guys with a combined 5+ ypc, they would be stupid to want to change that. If there's one thing we can say about BB, if things work he's not eager to dump that plan and move on to something else. Chances are they will have injuries at RB again and having depth will help overcome that. They've drafted / rostered backs that have overlapped skill sets before.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Seeing how I have been posting about drafting NE RBs is a fantasy blunder for years, I would not say I am missing the point. I think other people are missing the point in hoping / expecting that the newest guy will be different than the last 10.
wlwiles
Footballguy
I've done two rookie drafts over the past week - he went 2.09 and 2.11 in both so wouldn't be surprised to see him creep towards 2.04 territory after this
Probably a 2nd round rookie draft pick now...warranted or not.
Boston
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
They would not be changing that strategy in 2022…they change Michel for Stevenson and they continue doing what they do…would be hard to disagree more with the quote about BB and change more…from a personnel standpoint one of the biggest reasons he has sustained their run is the fact he lets people walk…I agree with your overall picture of what they do but they do it with different players (except for a certain core which I don’t see Michel being part of) and IMO at the RB position Stevenson will be the next man up for Michel in 2022.
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Keep in mind preseason excitement against 4th stringers can be misleading. I thought his first run was much more impressive and shows his nimble feet and ability to navigate through traffic.
First run
This is historically a terrible backfield to be invested in. You will always have a James White-type role player eating third downs and depending on the weather and if Bill likes you that week you may or may not see any action at all. I really like this kid as a back but he probably went to the worst possible spot of 32 available teams.
First run
This is historically a terrible backfield to be invested in. You will always have a James White-type role player eating third downs and depending on the weather and if Bill likes you that week you may or may not see any action at all. I really like this kid as a back but he probably went to the worst possible spot of 32 available teams.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
He has a lot of talent and at some point he will get chances, just wish it were for any of the other 31 teams.
foxco
Footballguy
That's a nice run. For this season I'm penciling him in for anywhere between 0 and 1300 yds.
Boston
Footballguy
The issue is he will have the 1,300 yards in two games than go for zero the week you play him.
Football Jones
Footballguy
He's a better prospect than Sermon for sure. Not that close.
We can talk situation as it applies to FF, but Stevenson would've beat out Sermon if he hadn't transferred.
We can talk situation as it applies to FF, but Stevenson would've beat out Sermon if he hadn't transferred.
rockaction
Footballguy
AJ Dillon nearly broke the speed score measurement. Dillon runs in the 4.5s. Stevenson couldn't even really come close to 4.6. Two different guys.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Interesting take. I like Stevenson more than most but it will be hard to compare the two based on landing spots. Sermon is going to roll in SF, Stevenson gets stuck with New England Roulette.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Yeah, situation goes to Sermon (for now). I do like Harris, but I believe Stevenson has the talent to be an NFL starter.
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