RB RJ Harvey, DEN (3 Viewers)

[MAC_32]

FYI if this means anything to anyone but the Jags were going to pick him a few picks after Denver took him.

Here is what is interesting to me, the one thing I'm having a hard time figuring out for his value.

IMO the value of a Sean Payton RB is in the passing game first and running game second. That's not been Harvey's game. Even the Jags who were going to take him said pass blocking was not his superpower, that was running. And as a pass catcher he did not do a whole lot and read a quote from Bruglers draft guide "that he's sluggish getting his head turned on screens".

Payton said he has soft hands and is going to do well in the pass game. He can move around and is likely what HC wanted in a "joker"

Sure and maybe so but I'm pretty sure he said the thought Dulchich and Jaleel could be his "joker" as well.

seems like you're looking for a reason to not draft him, that's cool.

Don't be a tool, I'm trying to have a conversation about a legit concern.

What you're saying are additional reasons why I couldn't justify considering him over the first 5 RB's.

 

[joey]

FYI if this means anything to anyone but the Jags were going to pick him a few picks after Denver took him.

Here is what is interesting to me, the one thing I'm having a hard time figuring out for his value.

IMO the value of a Sean Payton RB is in the passing game first and running game second. That's not been Harvey's game. Even the Jags who were going to take him said pass blocking was not his superpower, that was running. And as a pass catcher he did not do a whole lot and read a quote from Bruglers draft guide "that he's sluggish getting his head turned on screens".

Payton said he has soft hands and is going to do well in the pass game. He can move around and is likely what HC wanted in a "joker"

Sure and maybe so but I'm pretty sure he said the thought Dulchich and Jaleel could be his "joker" as well.

seems like you're looking for a reason to not draft him, that's cool.

Don't be a tool, I'm trying to have a conversation about a legit concern.

What you're saying are additional reasons why I couldn't justify considering him over the first 5 RB's.

Where your “first 5 RBs” are….Jeanty, Hampton, Henderson, Judkins and…KJohnson, yes?

 

[Stoneworker]

George Paton, Denver Broncos' General Manager, praised RJ Harvey's ability as a pass-catcher, saying, "His ability to get in and out [of his breaks], his ability to catch [stood out]. You can see he has instincts in the pass game. Man, he had a lot of big plays in the pass game," according to the Denver Broncos website. Paton also stated that Harvey has "home-run ability" in the running game.

Paton specifically noted that Harvey's pro day performance highlighted his receiving skills, which may have been less apparent in his college film due to the offensive style. He also mentioned that Harvey's instincts and route-running ability were evident during his evaluation, according to a report by the Denver Broncos. Paton believes Harvey has the potential to become a significant weapon in the passing game for the Broncos.

"[We] watched every carry, every catch," [Coach Sean] Payton said. "Some offenses in college don't necessarily feature the halfback a lot in the passing game. It's oftentimes when they get to the NFL they're used maybe a little differently.

So then you begin to study the passing game stuff. He's got soft hands. He does a lot of those things well. You get to see that maybe more in the pro day than you do on the film, just because of the offense."

 

[menobrown]

FYI if this means anything to anyone but the Jags were going to pick him a few picks after Denver took him.

Here is what is interesting to me, the one thing I'm having a hard time figuring out for his value.

IMO the value of a Sean Payton RB is in the passing game first and running game second. That's not been Harvey's game. Even the Jags who were going to take him said pass blocking was not his superpower, that was running. And as a pass catcher he did not do a whole lot and read a quote from Bruglers draft guide "that he's sluggish getting his head turned on screens".

Payton said he has soft hands and is going to do well in the pass game. He can move around and is likely what HC wanted in a "joker"

Sure and maybe so but I'm pretty sure he said the thought Dulchich and Jaleel could be his "joker" as well.

I think Harvey has a bit more talent than Dulchich or McGloughlin.

Plus, Harvey is a pure RB, not really drafted for the “joker” role which is more a specialty role.

Not arguing he's more talented then those two. My point was Payton called them his joker and they were not up to the task so I can't just take him saying it as how it's going to go.

And regarding Harvey being a pure RB that's kind of my point. Really Ingram is the only pure RB who has had a lot of fantasy success in his system and it took him awhile and he did not doing well until he started hitting around the 50 reception mark.

Kamara, Sproles, and Reggie. Those guys were jokers and they've been his best fantasy RB's.

IMO Ingram is what you hope Harvey can be if we are comping him to a Payton Rb. He's not those other guys.

 

[Cheen]

3) Despite already having Bigsby and Etienne, Coen really wanted Harvey

IMO this is more about how they feel about their two incumbent RB's then Harvey and I say that as someone who owns the duo in our Sharkpool league. I think they'll give ETN away if they get a chance and they might. I do think had they taken Harvey he'd have been their number one RB but reason I think it's more about how they feel about their current RB's is Gladstone said they'd just pivot to Tuten and felt they could wait a round. Had they not traded up for Hunter I have zero doubt they'd have drafted Jeanty based on another comment in that article.

My guess is they are trying to get rid of ETN if they can find a taker, Bigsby is fine as a cheap backup but RB was a need is my big point.

Payton's RBs have been fantasy goldmines for a decade+

Not always.

No one in the league throws to RB's more then him which creates massive amount of PPR points so that does not just help, that's the key.

But last year Javonte was one of the league leading RB's in targets and he and everyone else on the team sucked for fantasy.

Mark Ingram, who had much higher draft capital, was a bust/disappointment for years.

Even Reggie Bush was a disappointment relative to expectations and like Sproles value was almsot entirely as a receiver.

He's been a head coach 17 seasons and has only had 3 RB's run for over 1,000 yards. with Inrams 1,124 being the high point. And this was not realy because they could not run the ball, for intstance RB's ran for 8th most yards during his Saints tenure, it's because he rotated them so much but the few that were really any good for fantasy was mainly receiving.

As far as his short comings in the passing game, I trust Sean Payton to get him right.

If you are right on this it won't be a big deal but if not I think he's going to a huge disappointment. I sure don't want to rely on non-passing production from a Payton RB.

https://x.com/ScottBarrettDFB/status/1917270920739115032

I think Harvey was drafted to be the receiving back and to your point that's where the majority of my excitement for him lies. Bo NIx showed at Oregon he is pretty good in the short game and we know Payton can design that sort of O.

Payton gave Javonte every chance to be productive coming off his knee injury, even referring to his timetable since injury, and he showed he just doesn't have it anymore.

Jaleel had his shot coming off a good rookie season and showed he just doesn't have what it takes to be productive in Payton's O. Harvey is a bigger, juiced-up version of Jaleel. JM will spell both Harvey and Estime.

I expect Estime to have something akin to the Mark Ingram role and may be fantasy viable depending on how successful the offense is.

 

[menobrown]

I think Harvey was drafted to be the receiving back and to your point that's where the majority of my excitement for him lies.

I just don't see what you can base being overly confident in that on right now.

 

[efactor]

FYI if this means anything to anyone but the Jags were going to pick him a few picks after Denver took him.

Here is what is interesting to me, the one thing I'm having a hard time figuring out for his value.

IMO the value of a Sean Payton RB is in the passing game first and running game second. That's not been Harvey's game. Even the Jags who were going to take him said pass blocking was not his superpower, that was running. And as a pass catcher he did not do a whole lot and read a quote from Bruglers draft guide "that he's sluggish getting his head turned on screens".

Payton said he has soft hands and is going to do well in the pass game. He can move around and is likely what HC wanted in a "joker"

Sure and maybe so but I'm pretty sure he said the thought Dulchich and Jaleel could be his "joker" as well.

I think Harvey has a bit more talent than Dulchich or McGloughlin.

Plus, Harvey is a pure RB, not really drafted for the “joker” role which is more a specialty role.

Not arguing he's more talented then those two. My point was Payton called them his joker and they were not up to the task so I can't just take him saying it as how it's going to go.

And regarding Harvey being a pure RB that's kind of my point. Really Ingram is the only pure RB who has had a lot of fantasy success in his system and it took him awhile and he did not doing well until he started hitting around the 50 reception mark.

Kamara, Sproles, and Reggie. Those guys were jokers and they've been his best fantasy RB's.

IMO Ingram is what you hope Harvey can be if we are comping him to a Payton Rb. He's not those other guys.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the "joker" role. If he talked about Dulchich, McGloughlin and then Engram in that role, then Kamara was not a "joker". Kamara averaged about 185 carries a year for Payton and had 240 in 2021, Payton's final year in New Orleans.

But regardless, Harvey should have a much bigger role than what would be envisioned for any of the other guys mentioned or Darren Sproles who had 87,48 and 53 carries in his 3 years with Payton. If Payton did mention Harvey as a Joker, then he has changed his definition.

 

[efactor]

3) Despite already having Bigsby and Etienne, Coen really wanted Harvey

IMO this is more about how they feel about their two incumbent RB's then Harvey and I say that as someone who owns the duo in our Sharkpool league. I think they'll give ETN away if they get a chance and they might. I do think had they taken Harvey he'd have been their number one RB but reason I think it's more about how they feel about their current RB's is Gladstone said they'd just pivot to Tuten and felt they could wait a round. Had they not traded up for Hunter I have zero doubt they'd have drafted Jeanty based on another comment in that article.

My guess is they are trying to get rid of ETN if they can find a taker, Bigsby is fine as a cheap backup but RB was a need is my big point.

Payton's RBs have been fantasy goldmines for a decade+

Not always.

No one in the league throws to RB's more then him which creates massive amount of PPR points so that does not just help, that's the key.

But last year Javonte was one of the league leading RB's in targets and he and everyone else on the team sucked for fantasy.

Mark Ingram, who had much higher draft capital, was a bust/disappointment for years.

Even Reggie Bush was a disappointment relative to expectations and like Sproles value was almsot entirely as a receiver.

He's been a head coach 17 seasons and has only had 3 RB's run for over 1,000 yards. with Inrams 1,124 being the high point. And this was not realy because they could not run the ball, for intstance RB's ran for 8th most yards during his Saints tenure, it's because he rotated them so much but the few that were really any good for fantasy was mainly receiving.

As far as his short comings in the passing game, I trust Sean Payton to get him right.

If you are right on this it won't be a big deal but if not I think he's going to a huge disappointment. I sure don't want to rely on non-passing production from a Payton RB.

https://x.com/ScottBarrettDFB/status/1917270920739115032

I think Harvey was drafted to be the receiving back and to your point that's where the majority of my excitement for him lies. Bo NIx showed at Oregon he is pretty good in the short game and we know Payton can design that sort of O.

Payton gave Javonte every chance to be productive coming off his knee injury, even referring to his timetable since injury, and he showed he just doesn't have it anymore.

Jaleel had his shot coming off a good rookie season and showed he just doesn't have what it takes to be productive in Payton's O. Harvey is a bigger, juiced-up version of Jaleel. JM will spell both Harvey and Estime.

I expect Estime to have something akin to the Mark Ingram role and may be fantasy viable depending on how successful the offense is.

Somebody mentioned earlier in the thread that the Denver RBs had the most yards before contact in the league and the least amount of yards after contact. Signs of a good OL and really crappy RBs, which is obviously why they grabbed Harvey.

 

[MAC_32]

Where your “first 5 RBs” are….Jeanty, Hampton, Henderson, Judkins and…KJohnson, yes?

Yes, I have Judkins and Johnson in the same tier as Harvey, but above him. My goal was to position myself in drafts to get the one that falls- I double dipped with Judkins and Harvey in this league and got Johnson at 1.9 (over Harvey) in a superflex. I rolled snake eyes in my last league but it's because I won last year, was picking 12th, and trade-up attempts weren't successful- I can live with that.

 

[menobrown]

then Kamara was not a "joker". Kamara averaged about 185 carries a year for Payton and had 240 in 2021, Payton's final year in New Orleans.

Kamara was a joker, I'm not just saying that, Payton said that's what he was.

It's someone who can be moved around, lined up out wide, detached from the line of scrimmage. Does not mean he did not ALSO play RB.

Ingram was not a joker. He could not be moved around like that or play detached from the line. He was more of a dump off pass catcher like Javonte was. He was a pure RB.

But regardless, Harvey should have a much bigger role than what would be envisioned for any of the other guys mentioned or Darren Sproles who had 87,48 and 53 carries in his 3 years with Payton. If Payton did mention Harvey as a Joker, then he has changed his definition.

I give up if you are caught up on comping those guys carries to Harvey's projected. I really don't mean any offense but you are missing my point. Sproles was top 5 RB on about 5 carries a game one season and I already addressed how Payton misidentified several players as jokers. I got to move on and agree that we are not looking at this out of the same lense.

 

[Cheen]

FYI if this means anything to anyone but the Jags were going to pick him a few picks after Denver took him.

Here is what is interesting to me, the one thing I'm having a hard time figuring out for his value.

IMO the value of a Sean Payton RB is in the passing game first and running game second. That's not been Harvey's game. Even the Jags who were going to take him said pass blocking was not his superpower, that was running. And as a pass catcher he did not do a whole lot and read a quote from Bruglers draft guide "that he's sluggish getting his head turned on screens".

Payton said he has soft hands and is going to do well in the pass game. He can move around and is likely what HC wanted in a "joker"

Sure and maybe so but I'm pretty sure he said the thought Dulchich and Jaleel could be his "joker" as well.

I think Harvey has a bit more talent than Dulchich or McGloughlin.

Plus, Harvey is a pure RB, not really drafted for the “joker” role which is more a specialty role.

Not arguing he's more talented then those two. My point was Payton called them his joker and they were not up to the task so I can't just take him saying it as how it's going to go.

And regarding Harvey being a pure RB that's kind of my point. Really Ingram is the only pure RB who has had a lot of fantasy success in his system and it took him awhile and he did not doing well until he started hitting around the 50 reception mark.

Kamara, Sproles, and Reggie. Those guys were jokers and they've been his best fantasy RB's.

IMO Ingram is what you hope Harvey can be if we are comping him to a Payton Rb. He's not those other guys.

The bolded I find surprising and couldn't disagree more

How would you split the touches among the three RBs?

Off the top of my head:

Harvey 60% targets 30% carries
Estime 20% targets 50% carries
JM 20% targets 20% carries

 

[menobrown]

FYI if this means anything to anyone but the Jags were going to pick him a few picks after Denver took him.

Here is what is interesting to me, the one thing I'm having a hard time figuring out for his value.

IMO the value of a Sean Payton RB is in the passing game first and running game second. That's not been Harvey's game. Even the Jags who were going to take him said pass blocking was not his superpower, that was running. And as a pass catcher he did not do a whole lot and read a quote from Bruglers draft guide "that he's sluggish getting his head turned on screens".

Payton said he has soft hands and is going to do well in the pass game. He can move around and is likely what HC wanted in a "joker"

Sure and maybe so but I'm pretty sure he said the thought Dulchich and Jaleel could be his "joker" as well.

I think Harvey has a bit more talent than Dulchich or McGloughlin.

Plus, Harvey is a pure RB, not really drafted for the “joker” role which is more a specialty role.

Not arguing he's more talented then those two. My point was Payton called them his joker and they were not up to the task so I can't just take him saying it as how it's going to go.

And regarding Harvey being a pure RB that's kind of my point. Really Ingram is the only pure RB who has had a lot of fantasy success in his system and it took him awhile and he did not doing well until he started hitting around the 50 reception mark.

Kamara, Sproles, and Reggie. Those guys were jokers and they've been his best fantasy RB's.

IMO Ingram is what you hope Harvey can be if we are comping him to a Payton Rb. He's not those other guys.

The bolded I find surprising and couldn't disagree more

How would you split the touches among the three RBs?

Off the top of my head:

Harvey 60% targets 30% carries
Estime 20% targets 50% carries
JM 20% targets 20% carries

I'm ok disagreeing.

I think Estime has a better chance of getting cut then getting 50% of the carries.

I expect Harvey to lead the team in carries by a very solid amount and that's why he's part of my Big 6 RB's. It's how big of a role in the passing game he has I'm trying to figure out/guess and where to rank him in that group.

 

[Stoneworker]

I already addressed how Payton misidentified several players as jokers.

To be accurate, Payton never explicitly described Jaleel McLaughlin as a "joker." It was the media and fans. Payton often praised Jaleel's versatility and potential to grow into a more expanded role when reporters asked him joker-related questions, but obviously that hasn't happened.

And while Payton did explicitly say Dulcich had those type of traits, it wasn't "misidentification" but rather two straight years of hamstring injuries that permanently reduced Dulcich's athleticism and derailed him from taking on that role

 

[Stoneworker]

Harvey will have 60+ recpts this year. Book it.

 

[barackdhouse]

IMO the value of a Sean Payton RB is in the passing game first and running game second. That's not been Harvey's game.

I've heard the opposite all along, that it is a strength, which is why I had him as a sleeper that I was kind of hoping my Bears would snag. He caught 61 balls for 720 yards over 3 years, which is highly efficient and certainly within the range of his receiving skillset translating to the NFL. Sometimes teams emphasize that role in college with RBs and sometimes they don't. He had 3 receiving TDs last season. He can obviously catch the ball and his ability to make big plays would only seem to compound that as a possible strength, not weakness.

I think the key thing is Sean Payton thinks he can be a good receiver out of the backfield. I would absolutely not fade him because of a perception that he isn't a good receiver. Honestly that was one of the things that drew me to him (through the scouting of others) and to get picked by Sean Payton is sort of a dream come true scenario.

 

[barackdhouse]

FYI if this means anything to anyone but the Jags were going to pick him a few picks after Denver took him.

Here is what is interesting to me, the one thing I'm having a hard time figuring out for his value.

IMO the value of a Sean Payton RB is in the passing game first and running game second. That's not been Harvey's game. Even the Jags who were going to take him said pass blocking was not his superpower, that was running. And as a pass catcher he did not do a whole lot and read a quote from Bruglers draft guide "that he's sluggish getting his head turned on screens".

Payton said he has soft hands and is going to do well in the pass game. He can move around and is likely what HC wanted in a "joker"

Sure and maybe so but I'm pretty sure he said the thought Dulchich and Jaleel could be his "joker" as well.

I think Harvey has a bit more talent than Dulchich or McGloughlin.

Plus, Harvey is a pure RB, not really drafted for the “joker” role which is more a specialty role.

He's not those other guys.

but what if he is? I think he is and I think Payton thinks so too.

 

[barackdhouse]

FYI if this means anything to anyone but the Jags were going to pick him a few picks after Denver took him.

Here is what is interesting to me, the one thing I'm having a hard time figuring out for his value.

IMO the value of a Sean Payton RB is in the passing game first and running game second. That's not been Harvey's game. Even the Jags who were going to take him said pass blocking was not his superpower, that was running. And as a pass catcher he did not do a whole lot and read a quote from Bruglers draft guide "that he's sluggish getting his head turned on screens".

Payton said he has soft hands and is going to do well in the pass game. He can move around and is likely what HC wanted in a "joker"

Sure and maybe so but I'm pretty sure he said the thought Dulchich and Jaleel could be his "joker" as well.

I think Harvey has a bit more talent than Dulchich or McGloughlin.

Plus, Harvey is a pure RB, not really drafted for the “joker” role which is more a specialty role.

Not arguing he's more talented then those two. My point was Payton called them his joker and they were not up to the task so I can't just take him saying it as how it's going to go.

And regarding Harvey being a pure RB that's kind of my point. Really Ingram is the only pure RB who has had a lot of fantasy success in his system and it took him awhile and he did not doing well until he started hitting around the 50 reception mark.

Kamara, Sproles, and Reggie. Those guys were jokers and they've been his best fantasy RB's.

IMO Ingram is what you hope Harvey can be if we are comping him to a Payton Rb. He's not those other guys.

The bolded I find surprising and couldn't disagree more

How would you split the touches among the three RBs?

Off the top of my head:

Harvey 60% targets 30% carries
Estime 20% targets 50% carries
JM 20% targets 20% carries

I think Estime has a better chance of getting cut then getting 50% of the carries.

agreed, and I don't think he gets 20% of running back targets either if he does make the team.

 

[barackdhouse]

George Paton, Denver Broncos' General Manager, praised RJ Harvey's ability as a pass-catcher, saying, "His ability to get in and out [of his breaks], his ability to catch [stood out]. You can see he has instincts in the pass game. Man, he had a lot of big plays in the pass game," according to the Denver Broncos website. Paton also stated that Harvey has "home-run ability" in the running game.

Paton specifically noted that Harvey's pro day performance highlighted his receiving skills, which may have been less apparent in his college film due to the offensive style. He also mentioned that Harvey's instincts and route-running ability were evident during his evaluation, according to a report by the Denver Broncos. Paton believes Harvey has the potential to become a significant weapon in the passing game for the Broncos.

"[We] watched every carry, every catch," [Coach Sean] Payton said. "Some offenses in college don't necessarily feature the halfback a lot in the passing game. It's oftentimes when they get to the NFL they're used maybe a little differently.

So then you begin to study the passing game stuff. He's got soft hands. He does a lot of those things well. You get to see that maybe more in the pro day than you do on the film, just because of the offense."

This all matches the narrative that I had been hearing leading up to the draft.

 

[Jppaul]

George Paton, Denver Broncos' General Manager, praised RJ Harvey's ability as a pass-catcher, saying, "His ability to get in and out [of his breaks], his ability to catch [stood out]. You can see he has instincts in the pass game. Man, he had a lot of big plays in the pass game," according to the Denver Broncos website. Paton also stated that Harvey has "home-run ability" in the running game.

Paton specifically noted that Harvey's pro day performance highlighted his receiving skills, which may have been less apparent in his college film due to the offensive style. He also mentioned that Harvey's instincts and route-running ability were evident during his evaluation, according to a report by the Denver Broncos. Paton believes Harvey has the potential to become a significant weapon in the passing game for the Broncos.

"[We] watched every carry, every catch," [Coach Sean] Payton said. "Some offenses in college don't necessarily feature the halfback a lot in the passing game. It's oftentimes when they get to the NFL they're used maybe a little differently.

So then you begin to study the passing game stuff. He's got soft hands. He does a lot of those things well. You get to see that maybe more in the pro day than you do on the film, just because of the offense."

seems to be too many in this thread pooping on RJ's skills, particularly receiving. It's extra funny because pre-draft FBG's rookie guide has...

IDEAL FITS
Harvey is an excellent receiver who would be best in a Sean Payton/ Bill Walsh-esque West Coast horizontal offense...

Good call FBG on which HC would want him. Nailed it.

 

[Jppaul]

Harvey 60% targets 30% carries
Estime 20% targets 50% carries
JM 20% targets 20% carries

I think Harvey gets 60+% on both carries and catches... unless Estime can hold on the to ball better -and- do more. I would not be surprised if Dobbins, Chubb, or someone like Antonio Gibson winds up the #2.

 

[menobrown]

I've heard the opposite all along, that it is a strength

I don't know how you are listening to but I'd probably stop. I think that's a wild stretch. His max in a season was 22 catches and 90% of his touches are carries so to call that his strength makes zero sense.

So again not sure where you heard this but I'll stick with the comments from NFL teams.

This is what the Jags who were going to take him in round 3 said:

Coen was smitten with Harvey’s talents as a runner, which were undeniable. His pass-blocking prowess? That was a different story. “It’s not his superpower,”His superpower is making people miss.”

And this are comments from the Athletics Broncos beat writer and Payton:

Analyzing what Harvey may bring to the passing game — few teams in the NFL throw to their running backs more than the Broncos — requires more of a projection.But the Broncos attended Harvey’s pro day and came away confident he has the soft hands and route-running chops necessary to earn opportunities as a pass catcher. Even if that aspect of his game takes time to come around, Harvey will have Day 1 impact in Denver’s offense.

Above is beat writer comments, these are Paytons:

The very first thing you see in the evaluation is his running ability,


”I had a chance to coach Darren (Sproles) and Darren was an exceptional receiver out of the backfield, but when he came out of Kansas State he was an exceptional runner — contact balance, vision.

Some offenses in college don’t necessarily feature a halfback a lot in the passing game. When they get to the NFL, they’re maybe used a little differently. … But when you look at the running skill set, it was, ‘Wow.'”

That's the end of the comments. Does any of that sound to you like a guy whose pass catching ability is his strength? All anyone can say in about his pass catching ability is he's go some good traits and they are projecting he could be good at it but that's way different then calling it his strength.

but what if he is? I think he is and I think Payton thinks so too.

What if he's not? That's what I'm asking but for me it's not enough to just say well Payton thinks so because as I've pointed out he's already been wrong a few times on roles he had designed for some players. It's a projection, a work in progress, not something he's known for doing well and that's a big difference.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I'm glad someone beat me to it, because I was also surprised by the notion that we were meant to accept that Harvey's receiving chops were a "deficiency".

His receiving numbers were pretty solid for college football. About the same as Treyveon Henderson (both in volume and efficiency), and only slightly behind Darren Sproles (slightly behind on volume, slightly ahead on efficiency).

Sproles' college usage was actually pretty similar to Harvey's. Sproles was a workhorse in college. His draft profiles were all rushing first.

I'm not saying Harvey will be Sproles or anything close to it, but I also don't think it's guaranteed nor even likely that he'll be playing a Mark Ingram role with someone else coming in as Kamara/Sproles/Reggie. I think it's more likely he'll be the 1a in the same style as Kamara, where the lead runner is also the lead receiver among the RBs.

Ingram was a different beast, heftier and much slower.

Speed score
Harvey: 96th percentile
Ingram: 45th percentile

Burst score
Harvey: 88th
Ingram: 13th

40yd dash
Harvey: 96th
Ingram: 39th

 

[efactor]

I'm glad someone beat me to it, because I was also surprised by the notion that we were meant to accept that Harvey's receiving chops were a "deficiency".

His receiving numbers were pretty solid for college football. About the same as Treyveon Henderson (both in volume and efficiency), and only slightly behind Darren Sproles (slightly behind on volume, slightly ahead on efficiency).

Sproles' college usage was actually pretty similar to Harvey's. Sproles was a workhorse in college.

I'm not saying Harvey will be Sproles or anything close to it, but I also don't think it's guaranteed nor even likely that he'll be playing a Mark Ingram role with someone else coming in as Kamara/Sproles/Reggie. I think it's more likely he'll be the 1a in the same style as Kamara, where the lead runner is also the lead receiver among the RBs.

Ingram was a different beast, heftier and much slower.

Speed score
Harvey: 96th percentile
Ingram: 45th percentile

Burst score
Harvey: 88th
Ingram: 13th

40yd dash
Harvey: 96th
Ingram: 39th

Spon on and thank you

 

[barackdhouse]

George Paton, Denver Broncos' General Manager, praised RJ Harvey's ability as a pass-catcher, saying, "His ability to get in and out [of his breaks], his ability to catch [stood out]. You can see he has instincts in the pass game. Man, he had a lot of big plays in the pass game," according to the Denver Broncos website. Paton also stated that Harvey has "home-run ability" in the running game.

Paton specifically noted that Harvey's pro day performance highlighted his receiving skills, which may have been less apparent in his college film due to the offensive style. He also mentioned that Harvey's instincts and route-running ability were evident during his evaluation, according to a report by the Denver Broncos. Paton believes Harvey has the potential to become a significant weapon in the passing game for the Broncos.

"[We] watched every carry, every catch," [Coach Sean] Payton said. "Some offenses in college don't necessarily feature the halfback a lot in the passing game. It's oftentimes when they get to the NFL they're used maybe a little differently.

So then you begin to study the passing game stuff. He's got soft hands. He does a lot of those things well. You get to see that maybe more in the pro day than you do on the film, just because of the offense."

This all matches the narrative that I had been hearing leading up to the draft.

@menobrown IMHO 22 catches in one college season (and over 10 yards per) shows plenty of ability. Just because he is wasn't necessarily featured that way doesn't mean he can't do it. Anyway the stuff from the Broncos GM and Payton in this post right here is exactly what I had been hearing. Your response above suggests you maybe didn't read this post of @Stoneworker. I heard this take that he was dangerous as a receiver from several sources though, but admittedly it was only in the couple weeks leading up to the draft. Hadn't heard of him prior. He is clearly capable of being a receiving back. A much larger portion of his touches came from receptions his first season BTW and that is often because it is a strength. Anyway, am I supposed to ignore what Payton and the GM said? Because yes it sounds like they think he can be a good receiver.

 

[menobrown]

I'm not saying Harvey will be Sproles or anything close to it, but I also don't think it's guaranteed nor even likely that he'll be playing a Mark Ingram role with someone else coming in as Kamara/Sproles/Reggie

Who is saying anything about guarantees? Not me for sure and I'm not seeing anyone say that.

It's a legit question people are asking how good is he of a receiver. No one is saying he can't do it. I'm failing to understand why no one is getting that distinction? The same questions apply to a lot of the other top 6 RB's where they all have ability but were not always used that way but it means more to me for a Payton RB because he likes to rotate them so much.

I think it's more likely he'll be the 1a in the same style as Kamara, where the lead runner is also the lead receiver among the RBs.

Javonte was that guy last year so of course he could be and I'd even predict it. But his receiving profile as a prospect should never be discussed in the same breath as Kamara's. AK is a guy scouts asked to partcipate at WR at the combine.

Kamara's college receiving profile is about as different as the explosive difference you are outlining below between Ingram and Harvey.

Ingram was a different beast, heftier and much slower.

Speed score
Harvey: 96th percentile
Ingram: 45th percentile

Burst score
Harvey: 88th
Ingram: 13th

40yd dash
Harvey: 96th
Ingram: 39th

Sure but what does any of that have to do with receiving ability? Again I don't think anyone is debating that Harvey is more explosive.

Speaking of Ingram here is what Payton said about his work in the passing game when he drafted him.

"I would start with this first, I would say that one trait that is impressive is his ability to block pressure and pick up," said Payton. "He is someone who is real physical in his protections. He is someone that is used, to some degree, in the underneath passing game. "He is a physical back, he can catch the ball, but he is good in his protections

Ingram went on to average 28 receptions during his time with Payton.

 

[menobrown]

George Paton, Denver Broncos' General Manager, praised RJ Harvey's ability as a pass-catcher, saying, "His ability to get in and out [of his breaks], his ability to catch [stood out]. You can see he has instincts in the pass game. Man, he had a lot of big plays in the pass game," according to the Denver Broncos website. Paton also stated that Harvey has "home-run ability" in the running game.

Paton specifically noted that Harvey's pro day performance highlighted his receiving skills, which may have been less apparent in his college film due to the offensive style. He also mentioned that Harvey's instincts and route-running ability were evident during his evaluation, according to a report by the Denver Broncos. Paton believes Harvey has the potential to become a significant weapon in the passing game for the Broncos.

"[We] watched every carry, every catch," [Coach Sean] Payton said. "Some offenses in college don't necessarily feature the halfback a lot in the passing game. It's oftentimes when they get to the NFL they're used maybe a little differently.

So then you begin to study the passing game stuff. He's got soft hands. He does a lot of those things well. You get to see that maybe more in the pro day than you do on the film, just because of the offense."

This all matches the narrative that I had been hearing leading up to the draft.

@menobrown IMHO 22 catches in one college season (and over 10 yards per) shows plenty of ability. Just because he is wasn't necessarily featured that way doesn't mean he can't do it. Anyway the stuff from the Broncos GM and Payton in this post right here is exactly what I had been hearing. Your response above suggests you maybe didn't read this post of @Stoneworker. I heard this take that he was dangerous as a receiver from several sources though, but admittedly it was only in the couple weeks leading up to the draft. Hadn't heard of him prior. He is clearly capable of being a receiving back. A much larger portion of his touches came from receptions his first season BTW and that is often because it is a strength. Anyway, am I supposed to ignore what Payton and the GM said? Because yes it sounds like they think he can be a good receiver.

I don't see how 22 catches makes that is best trait. I'm going to keep saying that's a stretch.

I have Stoneworkers blocked and don't read his posts but I'm aware of what Payton said. I've already said a million times why I'm not just accepting that as fact he has a big receiving workload.

 

[Stoneworker]

2024 college receiving stats:

Ashton Jeanty
Total recpts: 23
Recpts/gm: 1.6
Yards/gm: 9.9
Yards/catch: 6.0
Rec TDs: 1

RJ Harvey
Total recpts: 20
Recpts/gm: 1.7
Yards/gm: 22.3
Yards/catch 13.4
Rec TDs: 3

 

[Stoneworker]

Video: RJ Harvey running routes at Senior Bowl (crowd reacts to 'nifty move' in 2nd route)

 

[Alex P Keaton]

George Paton, Denver Broncos' General Manager, praised RJ Harvey's ability as a pass-catcher, saying, "His ability to get in and out [of his breaks], his ability to catch [stood out]. You can see he has instincts in the pass game. Man, he had a lot of big plays in the pass game," according to the Denver Broncos website. Paton also stated that Harvey has "home-run ability" in the running game.

Paton specifically noted that Harvey's pro day performance highlighted his receiving skills, which may have been less apparent in his college film due to the offensive style. He also mentioned that Harvey's instincts and route-running ability were evident during his evaluation, according to a report by the Denver Broncos. Paton believes Harvey has the potential to become a significant weapon in the passing game for the Broncos.

"[We] watched every carry, every catch," [Coach Sean] Payton said. "Some offenses in college don't necessarily feature the halfback a lot in the passing game. It's oftentimes when they get to the NFL they're used maybe a little differently.

So then you begin to study the passing game stuff. He's got soft hands. He does a lot of those things well. You get to see that maybe more in the pro day than you do on the film, just because of the offense."

This all matches the narrative that I had been hearing leading up to the draft.

@menobrown IMHO 22 catches in one college season (and over 10 yards per) shows plenty of ability. Just because he is wasn't necessarily featured that way doesn't mean he can't do it. Anyway the stuff from the Broncos GM and Payton in this post right here is exactly what I had been hearing. Your response above suggests you maybe didn't read this post of @Stoneworker. I heard this take that he was dangerous as a receiver from several sources though, but admittedly it was only in the couple weeks leading up to the draft. Hadn't heard of him prior. He is clearly capable of being a receiving back. A much larger portion of his touches came from receptions his first season BTW and that is often because it is a strength. Anyway, am I supposed to ignore what Payton and the GM said? Because yes it sounds like they think he can be a good receiver.

I don't see how 22 catches makes that is best trait. I'm going to keep saying that's a stretch.

I have Stoneworkers blocked and don't read his posts but I'm aware of what Payton said. I've already said a million times why I'm not just accepting that as fact he has a big receiving workload.

This fixation on the 22 catches is perplexing. Maybe his college offense simply didn’t target RBs in the passing game. The Broncos like his hands and his pass blocking. That seems more relevant at this point than the 22 catches while in a college system that he will no longer be in.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

I can’t quite stomach the price myself but fortune favors the bold.

First draft starts tomorrow morning. I have 1.04. Not a chance. Second one this weekend 1.06 also not a chance. 1.10 in a couple of weeks. That’s where I’m expecting him to land but I doubt I’ll take the plunge.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Two things I find funny that stick out.

Whatever "scout" -- and I'm not going to go looking but it's there -- claimed pass-catching to be a con or issue or some ****. And now people will run with that (assumption). Um, I think I'll side with Paton and Payton and move on.

And his age. Turned 24 a few months ago. Why in the world is that so concerning? A 24-28 window is great for an RB/athlete. And the fact he was a QB (less miles) prior is even better. He has just as much right to improve as the guys who [GASP] are a few years younger, including the catching (IF that's even some problem -- more likely the system).

Sometimes the analysis goes way too far, imo.

Giddy up.

 

[ghostguy123]

After just a few highlights he seems like a perfectly capable receiving back.
Hard to predict just how good he will be or if he will warrant targets over a different QB decision, but he looks fine receiving.
The number of receptions college RBs get can be quite misleading for all sorts of reasons.

However, I'm one of those that think age definitely matters. 24 is old to be drafting a non stud RB in the first round. I mean he looks decent, but I certainly don't see "stud" , and at 24 already........

I'm not sure where I rank him yet but I highly doubt it's top 10 for me

 

[menobrown]

George Paton, Denver Broncos' General Manager, praised RJ Harvey's ability as a pass-catcher, saying, "His ability to get in and out [of his breaks], his ability to catch [stood out]. You can see he has instincts in the pass game. Man, he had a lot of big plays in the pass game," according to the Denver Broncos website. Paton also stated that Harvey has "home-run ability" in the running game.

Paton specifically noted that Harvey's pro day performance highlighted his receiving skills, which may have been less apparent in his college film due to the offensive style. He also mentioned that Harvey's instincts and route-running ability were evident during his evaluation, according to a report by the Denver Broncos. Paton believes Harvey has the potential to become a significant weapon in the passing game for the Broncos.

"[We] watched every carry, every catch," [Coach Sean] Payton said. "Some offenses in college don't necessarily feature the halfback a lot in the passing game. It's oftentimes when they get to the NFL they're used maybe a little differently.

So then you begin to study the passing game stuff. He's got soft hands. He does a lot of those things well. You get to see that maybe more in the pro day than you do on the film, just because of the offense."

This all matches the narrative that I had been hearing leading up to the draft.

@menobrown IMHO 22 catches in one college season (and over 10 yards per) shows plenty of ability. Just because he is wasn't necessarily featured that way doesn't mean he can't do it. Anyway the stuff from the Broncos GM and Payton in this post right here is exactly what I had been hearing. Your response above suggests you maybe didn't read this post of @Stoneworker. I heard this take that he was dangerous as a receiver from several sources though, but admittedly it was only in the couple weeks leading up to the draft. Hadn't heard of him prior. He is clearly capable of being a receiving back. A much larger portion of his touches came from receptions his first season BTW and that is often because it is a strength. Anyway, am I supposed to ignore what Payton and the GM said? Because yes it sounds like they think he can be a good receiver.

I don't see how 22 catches makes that is best trait. I'm going to keep saying that's a stretch.

I have Stoneworkers blocked and don't read his posts but I'm aware of what Payton said. I've already said a million times why I'm not just accepting that as fact he has a big receiving workload.

This fixation on the 22 catches is perplexing. Maybe his college offense simply didn’t target RBs in the passing game. The Broncos like his hands and his pass blocking. That seems more relevant at this point than the 22 catches while in a college system that he will no longer be in.

It’s not a fixation. It’s a stat.

And they like him primarily because of his running ability.

 

[Mitchie]

After just a few highlights he seems like a perfectly capable receiving back.
Hard to predict just how good he will be or if he will warrant targets over a different QB decision, but he looks fine receiving.
The number of receptions college RBs get can be quite misleading for all sorts of reasons.

However, I'm one of those that think age definitely matters. 24 is old to be drafting a non stud RB in the first round. I mean he looks decent, but I certainly don't see "stud" , and at 24 already........

I'm not sure where I rank him yet but I highly doubt it's top 10 for me

Ideally would be a year or 2 younger but most likely not getting a stud at end of first round anyway, and the upside is he's going to get a shot right away whereas a lot of times guys get drafted into more of a committee and takes a year or maybe two to get that kind of opportunity.

 

[smbkrypt24]

The only reason I care about age for RBs is the age when they broke out. I believe someone else laid it out earlier in the thread that he had 2 injury seasons, so he didn't break out until later. Slight ding for him, but I am not going to hold it against him that he is 24 now.

 

[pinkstapler]

Realistically, after the top 7 (Jeanty, Hunter, Tet, Judkins, Henderson, Hampton, Egbuka) it feels like a big tier where we are just kind of picking nits about who comes next. I've spent the past 3 days watching and listening to every mock and ranking I can find, and I'd say maybe I could put the next group of 8 or so guys into mini-tiers to lock in a consensus ~70% or so across all sources. But really this is where just as many people are going Warren/Loveland/Ward as are taking Golden/Higgins/Harris as are taking Harvey/Hampton or mix and match any of those three groups. Not trying to choke off conversation here, I think it's good. But I don't think any opinion is so off base we need to club each other over the head about it. Heck, I've even seen more than a few where people are picking Bech/Williams/Skattebo in this range, now that is far from as popular as the 8 I named above, but it's pretty much wide open from 1.08 through the middle of the second round IMO.

So I'm not pulling this too far off course, I'll add even though Harvey only caught 20 receptions his senior season, it was a little over an 11% target share of that offense (which also went through at least 3 QB changes over the season, woof). So 20 reads low, but it was a fair share of the offenses passing looks.

I think more so than projected receiving/rushing workload, I'm more pumped over the fact the Bronco's have the best line IMO of all the rookie RB landing spots, one of the best offenses in general (makes a RBs life easier if he isn't the only threat), and from a macro view; round 2 RBs have a 70% hit rate to have at least one RB1 finish and a 42% hit rate to have 2+ RB1 finishes in their career. These hit rates are both more than double the hit rates for round 2 WRs. So that's why I have Harvey ranked ahead of a lot of the other options in my aforementioned tier (and I don't take TEs in the first round of rookie drafts anymore lol).

 

[Soulfly3]

a name I heard zero ppl mention all draft szn, and now he's being talked abiout as a top 5-7 pick?
nah.

 

[King of the Jungle]

a name I heard zero ppl mention all draft szn, and now he's being talked abiout as a top 5-7 pick?
nah.

100%…I am baffled at people talking about taking him early. I am completely comfortable being wrong on this one.

 

[BeTheMatch]

a name I heard zero ppl mention all draft szn, and now he's being talked abiout as a top 5-7 pick?
nah.

I read quite a bit about him and how high some people were. I don't understand what some people want. Jeanty isn't available at every pick.

 

[efactor]

a name I heard zero ppl mention all draft szn, and now he's being talked abiout as a top 5-7 pick?
nah.

What? He's been all over the FF news. Hyperbole much?

 

[efactor]

a name I heard zero ppl mention all draft szn, and now he's being talked abiout as a top 5-7 pick?
nah.

I read quite a bit about him and how high some people were. I don't understand what some people want. Jeanty isn't available at every pick.

Plus everything pre-draft is about "landing spot". You couldn't have scripted this better in that regard. Good offense with an excellent OL and a coach who likes to throw to his RBs. They passed on Kaleb Johnson which says a lot about how high Denver is on Harvey.

We shall see I guess but I like the landing spot and the talent

 

[Boston]

a name I heard zero ppl mention all draft szn, and now he's being talked abiout as a top 5-7 pick?
nah.

100%…I am baffled at people talking about taking him early. I am completely comfortable being wrong on this one.

I think the path makes sense in this draft…outside of Jeanty and probably Hampton this is not one of those lay-up drafts…the WRs are odd this year and there are no gotta haves, the two TEs are intriguing but with Warren that Indy landing spot doesn’t get anyone too excited…there is a lot to like about Henderson, Judkins and Johnson but for me Sean Payton using a #2 on Harvey catches my attention in a big way…add in he doesn’t have much competition in that backfield and I think it makes a ton of sense for him to be in play as a top 10 pick.

 

[King of the Jungle]

a name I heard zero ppl mention all draft szn, and now he's being talked abiout as a top 5-7 pick?
nah.

100%…I am baffled at people talking about taking him early. I am completely comfortable being wrong on this one.

I think the path makes sense in this draft…outside of Jeanty and probably Hampton this is not one of those lay-up drafts…the WRs are odd this year and there are no gotta haves, the two TEs are intriguing but with Warren that Indy landing spot doesn’t get anyone too excited…there is a lot to like about Henderson, Judkins and Johnson but for me Sean Payton using a #2 on Harvey catches my attention in a big way…add in he doesn’t have much competition in that backfield and I think it makes a ton of sense for him to be in play as a top 10 pick.

I understand and agree that rankings for this draft will probably vary greatly. For me, he just really wasn’t on my radar prior to draft so I am hesitant to. I also agree he should probably be the in the conversation of later 1st, but seeing some people wanting to grab him at 1.03 or 1.06 is too rich for my taste.

 

[Boston]

a name I heard zero ppl mention all draft szn, and now he's being talked abiout as a top 5-7 pick?
nah.

100%…I am baffled at people talking about taking him early. I am completely comfortable being wrong on this one.

I think the path makes sense in this draft…outside of Jeanty and probably Hampton this is not one of those lay-up drafts…the WRs are odd this year and there are no gotta haves, the two TEs are intriguing but with Warren that Indy landing spot doesn’t get anyone too excited…there is a lot to like about Henderson, Judkins and Johnson but for me Sean Payton using a #2 on Harvey catches my attention in a big way…add in he doesn’t have much competition in that backfield and I think it makes a ton of sense for him to be in play as a top 10 pick.

I understand and agree that rankings for this draft will probably vary greatly. For me, he just really wasn’t on my radar prior to draft so I am hesitant to. I also agree he should probably be the in the conversation of later 1st, but seeing some people wanting to grab him at 1.03 or 1.06 is too rich for my taste.

I fully understand both sides of this…in other drafts he probably doesn’t get as much love but this one kind of sets up for someone like him to be sniffing around a higher pick…if he went to a bunch of other teams he would not be getting as much love but that combo of Payton’s faith and the Broncos depth chart is very enticing.

 

[Football Jones]

Gotta love the landing spot, but color me surprised. I'm shocked they passed on Kaleb Johnson.

I'm not seeing what Payton is seeing, but my opinion doesn't matter. Payton might not even be viewing Harvey as a feature back, though...maybe more of a force multiplier. Either way, it certainly seems like he'll get a decent amount of volume. Time will tell if Harvey has staying power.

Turning 25 before the Super Bowl doesn't help matters. This one is going to be interesting.

 

[Stoneworker]

a name I heard zero ppl mention all draft szn, and now he's being talked abiout as a top 5-7 pick?
nah.

100%…I am baffled at people talking about taking him early. I am completely comfortable being wrong on this one.

I think the path makes sense in this draft…outside of Jeanty and probably Hampton this is not one of those lay-up drafts…the WRs are odd this year and there are no gotta haves, the two TEs are intriguing but with Warren that Indy landing spot doesn’t get anyone too excited…there is a lot to like about Henderson, Judkins and Johnson but for me Sean Payton using a #2 on Harvey catches my attention in a big way…add in he doesn’t have much competition in that backfield and I think it makes a ton of sense for him to be in play as a top 10 pick.

I understand and agree that rankings for this draft will probably vary greatly. For me, he just really wasn’t on my radar prior to draft so I am hesitant to. I also agree he should probably be the in the conversation of later 1st, but seeing some people wanting to grab him at 1.03 or 1.06 is too rich for my taste.

I fully understand both sides of this…in other drafts he probably doesn’t get as much love but this one kind of sets up for someone like him to be sniffing around a higher pick…if he went to a bunch of other teams he would not be getting as much love but that combo of Payton’s faith and the Broncos depth chart is very enticing.

Agreed. It's about trust/confidence in Sean Payton's ability to evaluate players as much as the player himself. He was Payton's guy all along just as Bo Nix was.

And I would add to @efactor 's comment that not only did the Broncos pass on Kaleb Johnson, but they also passed on Hampton, Henderson and Judkins in the first round.

Pre-draft buzz is primarily just silly noise that reflects herd mentality as much as anything

 

[Stoneworker]

Chris Simms publicly declared RJ Harvey as his #3 RB three weeks ago. Brian Baldinger featured him a month ago. But maybe they aren't "ppl"?

Chris Simms: RJ Harvey at the top of the "starter, possible superstar" tier

 

[efactor]

Turning 25 before the Super Bowl doesn't help matters.

He just turned 24 in February and you’re already making him 25?

 

[efactor]

Chris Simms publicly declared RJ Harvey as his #3 RB three weeks ago. Brian Baldinger featured him a month ago. But maybe they aren't "ppl"?

Chris Simms: RJ Harvey at the top of the "starter, possible superstar" tier

Yeah, I have to question posters content when they claim to be avid FF players yet hadn’t heard anything about a RB drafted in the 2nd round? Not sure that’s someone I would put much stock in their opinion

No issues if you think he was over drafted of course.

 

[taylormeetstheismann]

Chris Simms publicly declared RJ Harvey as his #3 RB three weeks ago. Brian Baldinger featured him a month ago. But maybe they aren't "ppl"?

Chris Simms: RJ Harvey at the top of the "starter, possible superstar" tier

Yeah, I have to question posters content when they claim to be avid FF players yet hadn’t heard anything about a RB drafted in the 2nd round? Not sure that’s someone I would put much stock in their opinion

No issues if you think he was over drafted of course.

I think that wraps up this issue nicely. Next!