boilerdave
Footballguy
Are you saying you would take him 1.02 in redraft? I'm not saying that's wrong, just don't fully understand the statement.
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RB Saquon Barkley, PHI (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
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msudaisy26
Footballguy
There isn't a chance he stays in school is there?
I think that the chances he stays in school are as close to zero without actually being zero.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
So many long runs but then 17 carries for 45 otherwise. Seems to happen to him a lot. Makes me hesitate a bit.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Are you in any of my leagues and have the 1st pick? If so I am sure we can work out a deal. If I am not in your league I am sure everyone in your league feels the same way I do.
Considering that Gettleman just used pick 8 on McCaffrey the only thing that would be surprising about Giants picking him at 2 is that it meant they passed on a QB.
voiceofunreason
Footballguy
I hesitate giving up Bell for him, which some surely will. And yeah I’d shop that pick and see if someone will pay it. Looking at more clips, he makes some real bad decisions and bounces 9 out of 10 runs outside. Not shocking in that he’s used to being the best athlete in the field but it’s always a question how he adapts to the nfl. One thing for sure though his pass catching in ppr makes him pretty safe. But given the price people are putting him at, he needs to be a top 3 rb.
But yes, you are a big scary guy I wouldn’t mess with your greatness.
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modogg
Footballguy
I didn’t see the game but this stuck out to me as well. With that being said, a lot of teams will regret passing on this guy. Do people think the Ciehits screwed up drafting Zeke as high as they did? I think Barkley is better then Zeke too, at the very least he is off the feild
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Agreed! Not sure why people “discount” a player because of his explosiveness! It doesn’t make any sense whatsoever to me! NONE!!! This demonstrates how explosive he is and it verifies the workout videos we’ve seen. Even then people pop on a want to deduct BIG EXPLOSIVE PLAYS!!!! SMH ?
I DONT GET IT!Tex
Soulfly3
Footballguy
I'll always be hesistant that a player will bust... It happens all the time. TRich is a good example. There wasnt a soul that I recall saying he could flop.
And he technically didnt, for a about a year.
But potential is there.
That being said, no way in hell I dont take him at 1, or probably even 3-4 in a startup
And he technically didnt, for a about a year.
But potential is there.
That being said, no way in hell I dont take him at 1, or probably even 3-4 in a startup
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I'll trade the 1.1 for a high rookie pick ( 1.2-1.4 ) and an impact WR anytime just for the reasons listed above.
In 2017, Fournette and McCaffery were the leading RB's ..... and yet Hunt and Kamara were just as good if not more.
Trading down in 2017 and you'd have gotten a Hunt or Kamara AND another impact player to help build rosters. Just saying ... SBarkley looks all that, but which team drafts him matters, which OL he runs behind and which coach uses him matters.
In 2017, Fournette and McCaffery were the leading RB's ..... and yet Hunt and Kamara were just as good if not more.
Trading down in 2017 and you'd have gotten a Hunt or Kamara AND another impact player to help build rosters. Just saying ... SBarkley looks all that, but which team drafts him matters, which OL he runs behind and which coach uses him matters.
babydemon90
Footballguy
I really hope the Giants take a QB instead of Barkley.
Pipes
Footballguy
2017 was a really deep RB class though. Sometimes this strategy works and sometimes it doesn’t. Barkley seems too special to trade down if you have that 1.1 pick even though I do like a lot of backs in this class.
Atomic Punk
Footballguy
I dangled AB to the owner of the 1.01, indicating he would need to add to his side. Response was thanks but no thanks.
Barkley's market price is officially off the charts.
Barkley's market price is officially off the charts.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
tbf, I wouldnt do that straight up either.
As amazing as Brown is, he's up there in age. If i was in win now, maybe...
Atomic Punk
Footballguy
I suppose but AB is likely to have another 2-4 seasons as a top 5 WR with the possibility of continuing his dominance of the last few seasons. I can't see taking Barkley over AB in a start up.
Pwingles
Footballguy
Meh, i remember people saying this about calvin 2 yrs before he left. It was more reasonable to say about him due to qb situation.
Dunno if AB gonna be top 12 for 4 more seasons with Jones or a rookie.
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Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
and if you use perine as the example instead of hunt or kamara it is a very different outcome...Stealthycat said:
Atomic Punk
Footballguy
Their QB could still be Roth or a vet just as easily as it could Jones or a rookie. I'm coming around on your line of thinking but I'm still leaning to AB over the 1.01 by a bit.
Pwingles
Footballguy
I think its reasonable.
The accepted wisdom in dynasty is to use 3 year windows. I could see AB being very good for 3 more years. Possibly more points/year than barkley over that span.
So in that regard, i wouldnt argue. Top tier WR output is much harder to replace than top tier RB output imo. Seems like every year we hear the ole "best prospect since AP" bit.
Raleigh Engineers
Footballguy
Saquon Barkley @saquonb21 36m36 minutes ago
Farewell Penn State, thank you for everything! #WeAre
Farewell Penn State, thank you for everything! #WeAre
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Zyphros
Footballguy
Finished my initial eval of Barkley (I'll do a secondary one after the combine) today so figured I'd share some thoughts. He looks amazing, but with 3 caveats that give me a minor degree of pause.
1. Exclusively out of the shotgun. This seems offensive dependent on where he lands in the NFL and the type of runs they use. Not really a knock on him at all but just something I noticed that might make the transition a little tougher in terms of learning something new with the talent increase of the jump from college to NFL.
2. He can be indecisive sometimes. Again this seems minor and can be changed with a different mentality but it's worth mentioning. From what I saw there's generally a good awareness of what he needs to do in certain situations but he dances sometimes when he should just lower his shoulder and plow through.
3. When he starts running in open space, there's almost too much forward lean which causes him to lose his balance sometimes. Almost as if he's trying to go too fast too quick which causes him to stumble a little. I think his athleticism helps him stay under control and he gets away with it a little because he is such a good athlete.
Those are my concerns but they are not significant at all. He's really freaking good.
1. Exclusively out of the shotgun. This seems offensive dependent on where he lands in the NFL and the type of runs they use. Not really a knock on him at all but just something I noticed that might make the transition a little tougher in terms of learning something new with the talent increase of the jump from college to NFL.
2. He can be indecisive sometimes. Again this seems minor and can be changed with a different mentality but it's worth mentioning. From what I saw there's generally a good awareness of what he needs to do in certain situations but he dances sometimes when he should just lower his shoulder and plow through.
3. When he starts running in open space, there's almost too much forward lean which causes him to lose his balance sometimes. Almost as if he's trying to go too fast too quick which causes him to stumble a little. I think his athleticism helps him stay under control and he gets away with it a little because he is such a good athlete.
Those are my concerns but they are not significant at all. He's really freaking good.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Points 2 & 3 sound like they're describing Dalvin Cook.
Zyphros
Footballguy
I don't remember thinking those about Cook when he came out. I had (still have) a lot more concerns about him than I do Barkley.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I haven't done my due diligence on Barkley yet but is anyone else at all concerned the way he disappears sometimes? Maybe it's a weird stat to focus on but Barkley failed to crack 3ypc three times this year and six times in his career. That stands out amongst other prospects he's being compared to now who each did it the following number of times.
Gurley: 0
Peterson: 1
Zeke: 1
Fournette: 2 (both against Alabama)
Barkley: 6
Counting only their final seasons of their college career, all of Gurley, Peterson, Zeke, and Fournette failed to reach 3ypc in a game just 1 time combined (Fournette vs. Bama), while Barkley did it 3 times this year.
Gurley: 0
Peterson: 1
Zeke: 1
Fournette: 2 (both against Alabama)
Barkley: 6
Counting only their final seasons of their college career, all of Gurley, Peterson, Zeke, and Fournette failed to reach 3ypc in a game just 1 time combined (Fournette vs. Bama), while Barkley did it 3 times this year.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
My thoughts on this are that it's a combination of 4 factors, two that he controls and two that he doesn't.
The first is a poorer OL most of his time there. Just like Barry Sanders ran behind a poor OL and had a lot of negative runs, you can't expect great ypc behind a line that was usually weaker than the DL they were facing.
The second is that the play calling wasn't always the best. His Freshman year the OC wasn't very creative (and his QB was Hackenberg) and he didn't do as well. Then last year was probably his best year with Moorhead as the OC and a much improved (although slightly above average overall) OL. Then the beginning of this year went well through the Iowa game. Iowa played him "soft", hanging back and trying to prevent the huge gains, which worked to a degree. Yet he still had a monster game. So after that, you didn't see defenses play soft. Instead they attacked him, sending a defender or two at him on every play, even if he didn't get the ball. It was almost comical. I think it was against Rutgers that there was a play where you see the QB keep the ball and head up field. Running right by the QB, ignoring him completely, to tackle Barkley was a defender. The QB gained 5-7 more yards than if the defender had actually been watching him instead of just attacking Barkley. So Moorhead isn't an idiot and neither is McSorley (the QB). They used him as a decoy more and kept the ball more on options.
The third reason was that although I think his "long" vision is fantastic (10-20 yards out), I think his "short vision is just average (less than 10 yards out). You'll see many plays where he does a great job taking angles and setting up defenders to miss him on long runs. But in short you see him miss the holes at the LOS more than normal. It's just that his insane acceleration and speed allow him to bounce things outside.
The final reason was that I think he slowed down on purpose after the Iowa game to prepare for the NFL. I don't blame him at all to be honest. He wants to play in the NFL and if running with a little less abandon and taking on less defenders physically for half a season makes it more likely he stays healthy all year, I think that's reasonable. If you watch the Iowa game, you can see that the turf isn't great (at least for him or his cleats), with lots of pellets coming up and lots of slips by him. He had a fantastic game, but in the middle of the 4th he made a run toward the sideline and went to cut back in to try and score. He twisted his ankle a bit and stayed down on the field for a minute after the play. My theory is that play and game made him decide to still play hard, but not make as many risky plays in terms of sharp cuts or trying to run over guys. He didn't leap as much after either. I imagine some of his family or support group also mentioned that the Iowa game thrust to into the Heisman race and likely helped make him a top 10 draft pick. There's also a rumor that his longtime girlfriend is pregnant. So add it all up and there are lots of reasons for him to want to stay healthy and make sure to get that top 10 NFL contract. Pretty impressed he still played in the bowl game, actually. I didn't expect him to.
As for how those factors affect his NFL outlook, the first two obviously depend on what team he plays for. I didn't watch the Rams super closely the past couple of years, but the sense I got was that Gurley was all they had and that's why he was pretty boom or bust each game. A RB cannot make the entire offense go. I also doubt teams in the NFL will be able to just attack him with a defender or two every play regardless of whether he gets the ball.
The third factor probably will be the same in the NFL. I tend to think you have the vision or you don't. Having said that, he won't be able to turn the corner quite as easily in the NFL so it may be that he spends more "time" hitting the right hole and does better on a ypc basis than in college by not going for the home run.
The last factor is probably out of play. He's pretty competitive so I don't think he'll sign a big rookie contract and then be super safe and timid on the field. Hard to know for sure though.
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Sir Psycho
Footballguy
So would you be happy with Barkley with the Giants (#2) and with McDaniel as the HC ??
As a Cowboys fan- Absolutely NOT.
As a fantasy player- Absolutely yes.
This pairing would tear the NFL up. IMO, Barkley's long term outcome is enhanced by going anywhere but Cleveland. Going to the NYG is the most desirable landing spot, at least from a fantasy football perspective.
I'm a Penn State fan so I'll offer a few thoughts.
Penn State's line was not good this year. Barkley was constantly being hit behind the line of scrimmage. There were runs where he'd be hit 4 yards in the backfield, break that tackle, juke another player or two and then power ahead for another yard or two with two or three guys on him...all to gain two yards from the line of scrimmage.
There is not an ounce of let-up in the guy. He would have been wise to sit out the Fiesta Bowl like Fournette did in his bowl game last year. It was never even a consideration for Barkley. He's not that kind of teammate or person.
With his speed, lower body strength, and shiftiness, he reminds me of Marshall Faulk. And he is an awesome human being. He's actually from my hometown. Still goes back to his high school to watch their games every chance he gets. And let's hundreds of people bother him for pictures. He's really a great kid. And wait till the combine. He's the all-time Penn State record holder in the squat. And he's a halfback. His measurables are ridiculous.
At the next level, I see him having the impact of Zeke Elliott, but without the character issues.
Pipes
Footballguy
I think Cleveland is fine for Barkley too albeit not a good as the Giants. They have a really good GM and a young decently talented team with a bunch of picks this year. There offensive line is good, especially if Joe Thomas comes back. Cleveland can't always be at the bottom of the totem pole...can they?
The Cleveland thing is kind of dumb to me. People have been saying that for years but what appears in hindsight to be not so talented players like Trent and Cameron gave top 10 and top 5 finishes for their position and Josh Gordon of course but he's actually talented. What players left Cleveland became big fantasy producers?
That and they some good OL, a good GM and massive draft capital. Time to put the Cleveland is not good for my fantasy player stuff to rest, actually should never have existed.
I disagree strongly.
The Browns are poorly run and have been for decades. Leadership matters greatly and directly impacts both real, and fantasy football, results. Of course things could change but to suggest that going to Cleveland is not a negative for any fantasy player ignores reality.
I think this will only be put to bed when the Browns start winning at least a few games. They are the least competitive organization in professional sports right now.
Personally, I would love to see them turn it around. I like Hue Jackson and the city has great fans, deserving of so much more, but see little change in trajectory at this point.
