foxco
Footballguy
That is a nice deal for you. I like the rookie depth this year but to secure the best player by far for 3 maybes is terrific value IMO. The other guy has to hope he hits on the next Hunt or Kamara to make that worth it.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
RB Saquon Barkley, PHI (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
I currently hold the 1.03, 1.09, 1.10, and 1.11 picks in one of my leagues.
I am trying to determine how many of the later picks will need to be bundled in with the 1.03 pick to make it a fair offer.
I currently have the top 3 as follows:
1.01 Saquon Barkley
1.02 Derrius Guice
1.03 Ronald Jones II
I am trying to determine how many of the later picks will need to be bundled in with the 1.03 pick to make it a fair offer.
I currently have the top 3 as follows:
1.01 Saquon Barkley
1.02 Derrius Guice
1.03 Ronald Jones II
I have the same top 3 and I’m a big fan of Jones but I’m not moving the 1.01 for that collection of picks
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
If you can’t get it done for the 1.03 and two of the later picks I’d prolly hold steady for now. I personally wouldn’t give all four.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
While I tend to agree with FP about not giving 4 1st round picks for Barkley.
After watching him for 10 games recently, I think I probably would trade those 4 picks for pick one. He is very impressive.
I haven't watched very many college players yet though. I was skeptical of some of the deals being talked about for Barkley before watching him that closely, I feel differently about it now. He is a move heaven and earth player.
I might ask for a 2nd round pick back in return being a cheap ******* or something like that, but I think I would do the 4 picks for Barkley today.
That's a really nice offer - I'd like to think that would get accepted in most leagues. The hype is definitely insane.
I am contemplating offering all 4 of those first round picks in exchange for the 1.01 and 2.01 picks.
Gandalf
Footballguy
I’m going to just say this. Barkley should be untouchable especially if only getting question marks back. Don’t trade him. You will regret it for a decade. The only way I would trade him is I got enough back to put me over the top for a championship.
Last edited by a moderator:
Offer 3 of them to start with, but be ready to part with the 4th if you have to. I'm assuming your team is stacked. Otherwise, you might want to hang onto those picks to fill out your roster.
Aunt Jemima
Footballguy
I agree it will take all 4. I offered 1.2,1.9,1.10 and was instant reject
on my 2 offers that were accepted, I gave 1.2,1.4 and Hyde for 1.1 and I gave Mixon, 1.4, Ebron for 1.1 and 2.1
all of the above were FFPC leagues, I made deals in the leagues where guys were willing to talk, the rest of my leagues they really aren't taking offers
Are you ever set enough at RB to not take a stud like Barkley? If you have Zeke, Gurley and LeVeon already on your roster then maybe. If you are “set” at RB with Freeman, Howard and Ingram then you still take Barkley no question.
IMO, if that is PPR and TE required, then the package all day. Engram is a young difference maker at TE, Davis is better than any WR in this draft, and the 1.06 can land a solid RB prospect this year, be packaged with something else to move back up or moved to acquire another nice player for a rebuilder. Only logic I can see on passing on that is that we are still two months away so the owner thought they could squeeze out an even higher price.
Pipes
Footballguy
I don't think it would be. Barkley has a legit shot at being a top 5 RB. Davis and Ingram are great talents but unless they are the next AB or Gronk you can find guys to put up similar numbers. Good luck trying to find a RB capable of 1,200 yards and 10 plus TDs. Like others have mentioned depth is much easier to find than a stud RB.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
would you rather have Fournette or Kamara and 2-3 draft picks from last years draft ?
trading down a couple of spots STILL gets you a great RB potential, and solid players/picks ........ if I was building a dynasty I'd not do it on 1 player, I'd stack picks/players and trade 1.1 (Barkley)
trading down a couple of spots STILL gets you a great RB potential, and solid players/picks ........ if I was building a dynasty I'd not do it on 1 player, I'd stack picks/players and trade 1.1 (Barkley)
My league has 16 man rosters, we start 8 with 2QB then combo of RB/WR/TE.
My RB are awful.
Ive had offers but nothing excites me. Same owner has 1.02+1.03. That gives me 2 good RB each week instead of 1 great one. That improves my team by say 200 points per week isntead of 125-150. I would probably think that over.
My RB are awful.
Ive had offers but nothing excites me. Same owner has 1.02+1.03. That gives me 2 good RB each week instead of 1 great one. That improves my team by say 200 points per week isntead of 125-150. I would probably think that over.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Ben & Jerry's
Footballguy
I think the point was trading out of a spot rather than grabbing a stud, it is easy to squander those extra picks and end up with Perine and change instead of Kamara +
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Ben & Jerry's
Footballguy
I am all for taking risk but who are you hoping to grab @1.10 ? Throw out a couple names.
Pipes
Footballguy
Agreed. Plus I think Barkley is better than Fournette and Kamara had a historic season that 99% chance will not be duplicated by anyone drafted in the mid first round. If I was in a rebuild mode I'd much rather draft Barkley and trade him for known guys than a bunch of worse draft picks that may or may not pan out.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Good, balanced take here
Mirrors some of the things said in the thread. He certainly doesn't run like a power runner and I doubt he ever will. It's just not his style. The question to me is whether his short vision is poor, or whether it's fine and he just is avoiding contact and trying to make a big play. This article makes the point that the author thinks Barkley sees some holes that are creases, but just decides not to take them because he would rather run through "craters." In my mind, that's a lot better than him not seeing smaller holes or forgetting what hole the play call was for. But as the author points out, he needs to change that at the next level because he won't be helping his team with too many negative plays and he won't be able to out run defenders as easily in the NFL (although he is so explosive that I think he'll do it more than most backs).
Should be interesting to see where he goes and how he does.
Mirrors some of the things said in the thread. He certainly doesn't run like a power runner and I doubt he ever will. It's just not his style. The question to me is whether his short vision is poor, or whether it's fine and he just is avoiding contact and trying to make a big play. This article makes the point that the author thinks Barkley sees some holes that are creases, but just decides not to take them because he would rather run through "craters." In my mind, that's a lot better than him not seeing smaller holes or forgetting what hole the play call was for. But as the author points out, he needs to change that at the next level because he won't be helping his team with too many negative plays and he won't be able to out run defenders as easily in the NFL (although he is so explosive that I think he'll do it more than most backs).
Should be interesting to see where he goes and how he does.
It feels like certain people are trying to pick apart Barkley’s game in an effort to be contrarian. You can break down the tape as much as you like, but if the result of all that watching is you rank Barkley as your 3rd best RB prospect I’m probably not going to take that opinion too seriously.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
Yeah, agreed. Barkley is clearly the best RB in this class. To have him ranked 3rd makes me question his eye for evaluation.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
And they show that same clip against Ohio State to show his “lack” of vision. I must have watched that clip across different sites 100 times and I’m still not sure where he was supposed to go. In hindsight I guess just try and get what he can, a yard or two, but he literally gets swarmed by four guys. The horrid offensive line play isn’t being taken into account. I would have loved to see what he could have done with an average offensive line.Raback said:
Last edited by a moderator:
massraider
Footballguy
I think the questions about inside running are valid. He's not the most decisive back in the class. He's not the best inside runner.Raback said:
But yes, he's the best prospect in the class. Probably overall, the best prospect (that guard from Michigan might have an argument). I couldn't rank him 3rd, and anyone who does is out on a ledge, for sure.
Being concerned about inside running is a big deal, because we know RBs in the NFL have to be able to run up the gut. Backs cannot live on the edge, you don't get the outside run consistently. You DO see bad decisions in the hole by Barkley.
Do I think it's enough to knock him down? Naaaaaaah. Barkley could wind up in a ZBS, where he doesn't need to get the ball and pick a hole, it's predetermined for him. Terrell Davis ran to the Hall of Fame this way.
Plus, his receiving skills are so insane, he can be a bad inside runner and still be the #1 overall back. 1,000 yards receiving seem very possible to me.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
For my charting Barkley ended up with 69 instances of demonstrating vision out of 10 games. His best game in this category being against Iowa with 12 plays where he demonstrates vision to me. I generally will not give a vision trait on a play that is taken to the outside that does not incorporate hesitation and timing, or some sort of way that he is setting up blocks for me to credit good vision on the play. The runs inside vision is a lot more clear to me than outside runs.
Derrius Guice ended up with 92 instances of demonstrating vision out of 10 games. His best game being against Texas A&M 2016 where I recorded 17 such instances. Guice has 49 plays in this clip, so its only 35% of the plays, but its still quite a bit more because Guice is running inside so much more and showing he can find creases in heavy traffic.
Nick Chubb had 54 instances of demonstrating vision in 10 games. He doesn't get as many plays per game as these other two RB I don't think though. Something I have to go back and count the plays as Chubb was the first guy I watched and didn't figure out I should be doing that until I got to Guice.
It is a good contrast, because Guice does have similar speed to Barkley, but he is running inside a whole lot more than Barkley does. A different offense, perhaps better supporting cast around Guice that one should account for, but I have more evidence of Guice demonstrating good vision than I do for Barkley who I did give some minus traits on a few plays such as the one fruity pebbles talks about in Ohio State. There were a few other ones I think. Guice didn't miss much.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
No.
Guice was impressive though and I think he will be a good NFL RB. Likely tier one the same as Barkley, I just see more upside with Barkley and a lot more receiving ability.
I use 15 different traits and vision is only one of them. Barkley ends up with 692 Guice 592. So there is a gap there of 100 points which I do think is significant. I just think Guice is good enough to also consider him tier one, or could be a top 12 RB in fantasy within the next 3 seasons.
Since I did 10 games I could just turn the score into something smaller for use as a descriptive stat.
Bakley
Vision 6.9
Speed 6.3
Acceleration 6.5
Elusiveness 7.3
Burst 5.3
Power 4.6
Footwork 6.5
Pad level 5.1
Balance 3.7
Throwing .2
Ball security 2.6
Blocking 4.5
Stiff Arm 1.1
Route running 4.9
Hands 3.7
Total 69.2
Guice
Vision 9.2
Speed 4.0
Acceleration 3.3
Elusiveness 3.9
Burst 7.3
Power 6.6
Footwork 7.3
Pad level 8.5
Balance 3.9
Throwing .1
Ball security 1.6
Blocking 1.5
Stiff Arm .1
Route running 1.0
Hands .9
Total 59.2
So Barkley has a lot more points from route running hands speed elusiveness while Guice has more points in vison power pad level and footwork. Part of this is just due to the types of plays they are executing in the clips that I watched. You are going to have more footwork opportunities running inside than outside, more elusiveness opportunities running outside than inside.
I have only done 3 players this way so too soon to know what an average score might be. Nck Chubb ends up with a 33.2 total score using the same method and a lot of his runs are inside. He was not as a good as Guice by 26 points, getting close to twice as good by the charting, so I definitely think there is a tier break between Guice and Chubb but maybe not a tier break between Barkley and Guice.
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Barkley’s just too good a receiver, he’s a legit 800+ yard receiver in the right system.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
From what I saw he runs very good routes, perhaps on a par with David Johnson. He is a very good receiver.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Cant wait to see his 40 time, jumps etc. Baseline is around 4.4 flat according to Vegas. Personally am guessing 4.42.
No. Barkley has all the tools and the maturity. He will be a top 5 RB next year. Guice will be a good player but Barkley is elite in every way.
