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How long did it take PIT to retool their offense around Bell? Tyreek Hill in KCC? Ironic you bring up DJ but then poo-poo the concept of quikcly building around a mid-pick? The cost is 100% irrelevant the moment camp opens - if the guy has the talent they will get him the rock regardless of where they drafted him.
I agree on the Gurley bit - you should have to add to Barkley to get Gurley. Zeke is tricky, however. He's literally banned for life on his next domestic violence strike. He was out of shape to start the season last year, and that's a huge deal. And for whatever reason, the Cowboys don't target him much at all. I'd still likely lean towards Zeke, but I think he's got as much risk, if not more, than Barkley.
You point to Bell (it took a year and a half I'd say) but it is worth remembering that Gio Bernard, Montee Ball, and Christine Michael were also 2nd round picks that year. Nobody built offenses around those guys.
Because they didn't prove worthy. My point wasn't about players that suck. My original post quoted MSU saying "if he's as good as we think he is" and my point was that is true for all of them. If Guice is as good as I think he is, or Michel is as good as those in love with him think he is then they too will get featured. That's not unique to Barkley.
Any year over the last 100 yrs I’d agree with you about Cleveland but.......... (can’t believe I’m saying this) Cleveland is actually a good destination considering the coaches that they have now.
Yeah I don't get why people think Cleveland would be bad. Above average line, semi respectable QB (with a hopeful long term replacement after the draft) and some actual WR talent. The only bad thing I see abt Cleveland is i don't think anyone thinks hue is the long term answer at coach so that's a big question mark, but if Cleveland has Darnold, Barkley, Landry and a somehow clean for over a year Gordon then I'd imagine a coach might actually want to go there.
I guess I wouldn't be that worried about duke. He got a bunch of catches last year because the browns wanted him on the field over Crowell, don't think that happens with Barkley on the team
He is virtually unobtainable with some owners. I offered Cooks, 1.09 and 1.10. The counter wad DJ, JuJu, 1.09 and 1.10. The owner of the 1.01 admitted it would take an "overpay" but that gives you a sense of the incredible hype right now. DJ and any one of those pieces I would surely think about but all three pieces is just ridiculous.
Heh, we must be in a league together, because that pretty much has to be my trade. It was more than I really wanted to spend, but frankly I'm a fair bit lower on both Diggs and DJ than the consensus (Diggs especially), and with the boosted scoring that RBs get in our league I really wanted to secure Barkley. Unfortunately that was what it took to get it done.
Those are rose colored glasses, Duke was rated only behind Kamara for elusiveness in the open field catching passes. He's not going to go away, and Barkley would not see any time in the slot in Cleveland after the Landry signing where Duke did a lot of his fantasy damage last year. Plus they now have a starting QB who's never thrown for more than 3,100 yards in a season. There just wont be much receiving pie to divvy up at all in Cleveland.
And duke may still be rated that highly at open field Elusiveness for the 30 catches that he would get while backing up Barkley. A player that couldnt even earn more time when his competition was crowell will all of a sudden push Barkley for playing time is having rose colored glasses. I agree duke would take a bigger portion of targets then whoever backs him up in the other 3 teams mentioned but if Hue really would have the plan of taking Barkley out of the game just to get duke the ball then he shouldn't be a head coach. Also don't quote me but that terrible QB who took the crappy bills to the playoffs I believe targets RBs a good amount from what I've heard. So sure barkley wouldn't have the potential of 60 catches and would only get 30-40
Taylor does not throw for a ton of yards but he surely throws a larger percentage of them to RBs than most QBs. It’s the Cleveland WRs that will suffer under Taylor.
Why would Cleveland be a better spot than Tampa? Other than guard, what position is Cleveland better at than Tampa? Why would a future coach prefer Cleveland to Tampa?
That's all I am saying, we are comparing potential landing spots for Barkley. Even if we take out the fact that it's the Browns, all things being equal, I'd much rather he not go to a team with a strong pass-catching RB (that they are already talking about extending) and a stud slot WR who are going to take away target opportunities. We haven't even mentioned Hyde is there too. By comparison, what RBs do the Giants have to take away touches? Or Tampa for that matter? Indy has what, a second year Mack that was outplayed by a geriatric Gore last year?
Not even in the right stratosphere.I was considering 1.09 this year + my first next year + a player for 1.01, but that doesnt even seem close.
I need RB. Will hope Penny goes to a nice spot, or there is a run on WRs 2-8th
The picks line up perfectly with my situation, so at the risk of asking an Assistant Coach question, what do you think of the 1.09 + DeAndre Hopkins for the 1.01 + Kupp and Garoppolo in a superflex dynasty?
I have an interesting comparison.
Bwahahahaha would be the response to both the offer and penny being there at 9.I was considering 1.09 this year + my first next year + a player for 1.01, but that doesnt even seem close.
I need RB. Will hope Penny goes to a nice spot, or there is a run on WRs 2-8th
It's definitely a trade you could end up winning, especially with DJ in a new offense and AZ lacking talent. With a good rookie year, Barkley's probably the 1.01 in startups this time next year. Just slightly surprised that's how much it cost.
Well it depend on the player. Fournette? Hyde? Those would have radically different outcomes. As the owner of 1.01 I would snap accept that offer if it was Fournette. Heck it could be Cook or maybe Mixon too.Otis said:Not even in the right stratosphere.I was considering 1.09 this year + my first next year + a player for 1.01, but that doesnt even seem close.
I need RB. Will hope Penny goes to a nice spot, or there is a run on WRs 2-8th
I think Guice and Chubb/Micheal are just as good as Barkley. Just haven't gotten the press Barkley has do to their teams not being as good and UGA just being great this past year Being a Florida fan I've seen a lot from these three backs and I'd put them up against Barkley anytime. I'm one of those Real life I don't waste such a high pick on an RB considering shelf life (career wise and Guice/Chubb/Micheal can do just as much as Barkley with a later pick) but fantasy wise You easily take Barkley in the top 5. I honestly just don't get the Barkley hype when I see 3 players just as good as him.
I don't agree with that at all and you've missed my point entirely. Barkley is certainly elite, but so is Guice. I like Chubb and Michel, but they aren't in those guys' tier.
I think the gap between Barkley and Guice is much bigger than the gap between Guice and Michel, personally.
Because they think it’s the easiest way to guarantee 6 wins and turn around the franchise. Now that the jets have moved to 3rd I think it’s pretty much a certainty that the browns take Barkley.
I covered this earlier in this thread but it's pretty simple, Hyde while not bad isn't that good either. A lot like latavius Murray who basically got the same contract as Hyde did this year. Hyde got 3 year 15 mill (6mill for year 1). Murray got 3 year 15 mill and I think actually got more guaranteed money but I didn't go that in depth.
I covered this earlier in this thread but it's pretty simple, Hyde while not bad isn't that good either. A lot like latavius Murray who basically got the same contract as Hyde did this year. Hyde got 3 year 15 mill (6mill for year 1). Murray got 3 year 15 mill and I think actually got more guaranteed money but I didn't go that in depth.
Why not?
In the two WSL survivor league redrafts over in the Mock Draft Forum, Barkley went 1.11 (RB9) and 1.06 (RB5) respectively. In February. Before he nuked the combine.
I'm more in a spot of I think Barkley padded a lot of stats against some not so desireable teams plus he was their only option last year. Is Barkley talented? Sure and I don't think he's a bust but I really don't get the hype over him at all. He's not a once in a generation talent like so many are perceiving and in that aspect I think people are incredible overrating him. My point is why waste trading a bunch of picks (If you are a team trying to target him not in the top 4-5) for a guy playing at a position where the shelf life isn't as strong? Plus theres 3 or 4 other backs you can get 2-3 IMHO who can give you similar production? I've seen a lot of Eagles fans personally PSU fans who want to trade the farm to move up for this guy. Thats just dumb.Hankmoody said:
Barkley going to SF wouldn't be a problem. I'd be more afraid of him in TB in terms of lack of success.Super King said:
Physically he most certainly is. How many 230 lb RB's have run 4.0 40 with a 41 inch vertical and have put up 29 reps? We haven't seen an athlete like this at RB with this kind of size since Bo Jackson. There is a lot more to the position like vision and patience which remain to be seen but physically he's a freak.
"Top 10 money" is a bit misleading. Hyde's contract essentially a 1 year deal (with a 2.3 in dead cap space if they cut him) with a team options for years 2 and 3. And even after all their FA moves, they still have TONS of cap space. Duke is a FA at the end of this year, and has enough value to be moved on draft night if they want to.Bronco Billy said:
Reps I don't give a #### about. I've seen so many athletes who can lift x Amount but then see non athletes do the same amount. I don't care what a freak he is athletically. Doesn't always translate to the next level. A lot of these athletes also don't lift properly either. I've been going to a rehab center do to a weak hip from playing sports when I was younger that has effected my knee on the same side. We talk about sports a lot and he does a lot of sports rehabs. A lot of these injuries athletes are getting aren't freak accident incidents. It's do to how they are lifting as well. Thats great some guy at 230 can do that lifting but how many are doing it correctly? I understand the Vision and Patiences parts of these things but too many people have a circle jerk in sports over athletes athletic ability. We've seen a lot of freak athletes who do well at college who are complete busts at the next level. I'm not saying Barkley is a bust. I just think we use Generation talent as a overkill these days it doesn't mean what it once did.
What are the folks overrating him missing? What does he lack and how do his strengths and weaknesses compare to Gurley, Zeke and Fournette?
Didn't realize he was in final year of deal. Makes a lot more sense now and given how teams value backs these days you can trade Duke for more assets and then get Barkley on the cheap considering the price of Rookie deals these days aren't as bad as say when AP and Bradford were top picks. It's the old baseball guy last year of the deal becomes expensive but has value so you trade him and bring up a guy who can potentially impact the team more and cheaper.
People like to be contrarians. He’s the highest rated RB in a long time. If they say he’s overrated and he doesn’t live up to the billing, they can then beat their chest. If he is every bit as good as most thought he would be, they don’t mention it again and it’s forgotten.
I would say he's got better character then Zeke and he doesn't have Zekes wear and tear. Also I was never that high on Zeke either. I think he's been an extreme benefactor of great offensive line run blocking in both College and the pros so far. Barkley he's been more durable IN COLLEGE then Fournette or Gurley but honestly I'd have taken Gurley in the top 5 despite his injury the year he was drafted. People have compared Barkley to Barry Sanders. I don't see it. I saw Shady pulling off Barry Sanders better then Barkley. Speaking of Shady he does what Shady does runs more East West then North South which he needs to get a better handle on. Despite his size he more quick then a bulldozer to break tackles which he'll need to do in the NFL because he's not gonna have the Truck size lanes like he did in college. He also looks too much to make a highlight reel miss rather then take whats given to him in the hole. Not a great pass blocker either. He was also contained in games where he should've destroyed teams especially against Michigan St. Fournette has the same Strengths as Barkley and hhis receiving ability honestly is incredible underrated This guy isn't all power he's got surprising quickness. He also has pass Pro disadvantages as well. Leonard fournette was the most polished backed NFL Prospect wise since AP yet he got no where near the hype AP got and people were locked onto the McCaffery hype train. I would've taken Gurley over both Winston and Mariotta in that Draft.
I would definitely say from a fantasy aspect he is overrated in terms of dynasty asset I'd agree with you there. RBs don't have a long shelf life in the NFL. I would if I had the #1 pick definitely if I gt some crazy offer I wouldn't be able to hit accept fast enough. Especially if I have holes on my roster I need to fill and can do so easily trading that 1.01 pick. Depending how far back I got take Guice or Chubb and fill in the holes with the extra pick I possible got this year. I probably also added in the trade two upgrades at positions of need. Unless you are in desperate need of an RB here I see trading out of 1.01 something people should be thinking about in dynasty especially if they have other needs. My overrated is more in these terms. I live in part of the Country where B1G football is huge and big PSU alumni and fanbase in Philly. Over the years they've become the most annoying fans ever. I remember when these guys were hyping up Hackenburg as the next best QB prospect. After a bad season under new coach James Franklin they were ready to axe the dude. I said maybe Hackenburg just isn't that good. Franklin did more with way less talented QBs including some guy related to Aaron Rodgers in his brother Jordan who wasn't as talented as Hackenburg. People the tried blaming the Offense line for Hackenburg being bad. Overall I've seen and heard a lot and enough about Barkley at this point it's gotten to become overkill. People hear are people the dude in Canton before he plays an NFL down. Wanting the Eagles to trade the farm to move up and take him, etc etc. Crazy talk. So in the sense I'm going I think he's overrated especially by many PSU fans here.
